TTA Tee-Shirts
Paul J. Osze
make our own t-shirts. But...
I recently had a couple dozen t-shirts made for a project I was involved with,
which used the copyrighted trademark symbols for AT&T, Pacific Bell, and CSU
Chico, and I didn't get sued or sent to hell or anything (and AT&T even picked
up the tab after I had spent some $200 on the damn things!)
Even if making and distributing black-market TTA t-shirts is out of the
question, there is also the possibility of just making the iron-on transfers.
All this process really needs is a thermal printer and a special color ribbon.
(And naturally I have *LOTS* of TTA pics available for transfer :-)
I don't have the printer setup needed, but I'm sure the local print shops can
make them. If necessary, the image can be color-seperated so a different shop
can do each color, so they can't get zapped for copyright infringement. I've
done the color sep before on an Amiga, then transferred to a Mac and laser
printed the seps for screen printing - but this can cost about $12 for an
adult sized shirt (and that's if you buy bulk). I'm sure the iron-ons would
be cheaper to produce, and if anyone's interested I'll look into the feasibilityof producing them en-masse (for secret distribution among us die-hards, and
not for any kind of commercial exploitation ;-) For that matter, I've seen
Bart Simpson on all kinds of locally-made junk - maybe copyright law is grey
in this area? Any lawyers out there (shudder)?
The BoingDragon
+----------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| ( ) | "I suppose it is much more comfortable to be mad and not know it |
| )\^^/( | than to be sane and have one's doubts." - G. B. Burgin |
| (O||O) | |
| \)(/ | "Life does not require justification." - Dragon proverb |
| (oo) | |
| `' | "Time is three eyes and eight elbows." - Dogen Zenji |
+----------+------------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Marc Greene
>Hmmm... The TTA characters are, of course, copyrighted, so we can't really
>make our own t-shirts. But...
Why don't we send a letter to WB, asking for permission to use the
characters (perhaps even with a sketch of what we'd do) for a run of,
say, 50 T-shirts, offering them $1 for those rights. If they're cool
(and if the creative staff gets the letter before the lawyers do), they
might be willing. They'd preserve their rights by receiving $1, and it
wouldn't hurt their market if we agreed to limit production to 50 shirts.
I would love to see a shirt with images of BBMEHPDFG (et al?) sitting in
front of a computer (a realistic computer would be nice), and on the
back of the shirt, the final-credit circles with "Thanks to our loyal
viewers / Both of you". A caption of "alt.tv.tiny-toon" someplace on the
shirt would be nice.
As far as production goes, there's a pretty good company near MIT called
"Mirror Image" that does good work inexpensively.
- Andrew | 13 days and counting...
Robert Jung
>question, there is also the possibility of just making the iron-on transfers.
I just want to ask a few questions about the technology itself (I know nada
about T-shirt production, natch)...
While I was down in San Diego (the SDCC), I picked up an 8.5" x 11" color
promo glossy of Buster & Babs & the TTA logo. I then went to a guy who'd
scan any image and put it on a tee, for ~$15. Well, the shirt looks okay --
not great, some of the finer details were missing -- and I gave it to my
brother. Only gripe now is, after a few months of washing and wearing, the
image on the T-shirt is starting to fade.
In short, I'd love to pay money for a well-done TTA tee (bootleg or not,
heck, taping TTA episodes is a copyright violation anyway... B-), but I am
wondering about the quality and durability involved. I imagine the best-made
and longest-lasting tees would have to be silk-screened (whatever that is),
and I dunno if anything short of an official Warners endorsement would get
that done...
(Then again, maybe enough net.toonsters would be willing to buy a TTA shirt
to make bulk silk-screening feasable?)
--R.J.
B-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Buster: "Take away your props and costumes; what would you be?"
Babs: "Naked."
~~~~~~~~~~~ These opinions are all mine, but you're welcome to 'em. ~~~~~~~~~~
Stay Tiny Tooned! Send assorted silliness to jj...@usc.edu
Robert Jung
>In <19...@chaph.usc.edu> jj...@aludra.usc.edu (Robert Jung) writes:
>> [TTA tee shirt talk removed]
>>... I then went to a guy who'd
>>scan any image and put it on a tee, for ~$15. Well, the shirt looks okay --
>>not great, some of the finer details were missing -- and I gave it to my
>>brother. Only gripe now is, after a few months of washing and wearing, the
>>image on the T-shirt is starting to fade.
>
>frame off the television, transferred it to my mac, touched it up,
>generated color separations, and printed a full-color t-shirt. It
>exhibits the same problems you describe. "Silk-screening" involves
>squeezing textile ink through a silk mesh.
It could be a different process, then, since the shirt I paid for involved
printing a color transfer off of a color printer/plotter, and using a hot
iron/heat pad/whatjamahoosit to transfer the image. Nothing to do with color
seperations.
In any event, is there hope for getting a detailed, semi-permanent TTA
shirt done up, or are we just tossing ideas around until Warners finally
gets on the ball and produces one (or many)? I wouldn't mind a nice simple
"'toons lined up in front of the Looniversity" from the title page myself...
Keith Schwols
we, the CSU Bridge Club, printed up some shirts for our members with Dizzy
Devil on them. (It had Dizzy standing with his mouth open drooling and the
caption CSU Bridge Monsters) We ran the shirt through campus legal services
and the result was: because the design was hand drawn it was legal. So my
guess is that if we don't resort to using a scanned image we could make a
a.t.t-t t-shirt.
P.S. My current T-shirt project is a drawing of MJ Frog high kicking and
singing, holding a drink in his left hand with a caption "Totally Rip-ped"
Watch for them in the CSU Flea Market sometime after Nov 1st.
------------------------> Keith Schwols (ks33...@longs.lance.colostate.edu)
|\/\/\/|
| |
| |
| (o)(o)
C _) Program Butt-Naked, Dude!
| ,___|
| /
/____\
Ee Vawn
+-In article <17...@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU>, ks33...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Keith Schwols) wrote:-
+----------
|
|
+----------
| Well I don't know about making WB get on the ball and start marketing. But,
| we, the CSU Bridge Club, printed up some shirts for our members with Dizzy
| Devil on them. (It had Dizzy standing with his mouth open drooling and the
| caption CSU Bridge Monsters) We ran the shirt through campus legal services
| and the result was: because the design was hand drawn it was legal.
Well this reminded me of an event last year. Last year I put together
a TTA birthday party for my boyfriend... TTA party goods, episodes shown
at party, etc. I tried to get Baskin-Robbins to make a Dizzy Devil on
the cake but they said they wouldn't, fearful of copyright infringement.
Maybe it would have been okay, eh? Anyway, if I had more time I would
have gotten permission... so, the moral is if you do something like this,
get permission!
-Yvonne
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Yvonne "I speak only for myself" Throgmorton yvo...@ucscb.ucsc.edu |
| |
|"No, no; that's like putting fried eggs in your armpit." |
| --Marlon Brando, in an interview with Connie Chung, 1990 |
`-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Malcolm Austin
>
>+-In article <17...@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU>, ks33...@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Keith Schwols) wrote:-
>| we, the CSU Bridge Club, printed up some shirts for our members with Dizzy
>| Devil on them. (It had Dizzy standing with his mouth open drooling and the
>| caption CSU Bridge Monsters) We ran the shirt through campus legal services
>| and the result was: because the design was hand drawn it was legal.
> ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Well this reminded me of an event last year. Last year I put together
>a TTA birthday party for my boyfriend... TTA party goods, episodes shown
>at party, etc. I tried to get Baskin-Robbins to make a Dizzy Devil on
>the cake but they said they wouldn't, fearful of copyright infringement.
>Maybe it would have been okay, eh? Anyway, if I had more time I would
>have gotten permission... so, the moral is if you do something like this,
>get permission!
>
I don't think campus legal services had this quite correct. "Hand-drawn"
(not traced) stuff, of original design, would not be a case ofcopyright
infringement, but would be trademark infringement, and that is the real
issue here. You can't go around, for example, marketing your own line
of TTA trading cards just because you drew them yourself.
Baskin-Robbins might be more sensitive to this, particularly because of
their relationship with Warner Bros., and because they would presumably
just be copying a Warner Bros picture which you gave them. (That *is*
copyright violation.)
On the other hand, a bridge club, not for profit, limited distribution,
who's going to care? But I wouldn't try marketing these things nation-
wide, relying on the "I drew it myself" defense. the problem is, you
drew *their* characters.
Disclaimer: I ain't no stinkin' lawyer.
--
=Malcolm Austin=============================================================
ma...@fid.morgan.com | "Art off. OK, I want channels 18, 24, 63, 109, 87,
#include <disclaimer.h>| and the weather channel."
-----------------------|
Jamie S Wilmoth
it may :-), I was always under the impression that silk-screening can
produce very good results. If I'm correct, the shirts that I buy at
concerts are done using silk-screening. I have had the chance to talk
to a couple of the vendors when things were slow and they _said_ it was
done by silk-screening. Now they could have been lying, seeing as I
didn't know them personally; but since I had already paid for my
shirt(s), I didn't see a reason for them to do so. Taking this to be
ture, I can say that they are of _very_ excellent quality. Very detailed
drawings with beautifully vibrant colors. As far as durability goes,
I have shirts from '86 that I still wear quite frequently, and even
machine wash (inside-out, as Paul mentioned) and it's still in very
good condition. I suspect that these aren't done using a "primary
color" technique, but more "like a painter would" -- specific colors
laid down in specific areas with only some blending were appropriate.
If we can get anything _close_ to these for our T-shirt I would be
_more_ than happy with it.
<inhale>
On the legality/permission subject: Sending a letter to, or getting
a phone call through to Warner Bros. would seem to be the prudent
course to take. Getting some kind of written permision would of
course be the best route; but even a word of "it's not our policy
to prosecute such cases" would be sufficient. Even if we are unable
to get through to someone at WB, it would probably be all right to
go ahead anyways. In the dorms at college there are a lot of "floor
shirts" made using all sorts of copyrighted/trademaked characters
(Calvin and Hobbes and Loony Toons especially) all the time. I
once asked about that being illegal, and the person replied
something like, "Well... technically, yes; but it's 'ok.'" Hardly
a legal opinion, true, but it does seem that if a small group
makes up a T-shirt for its personal use, and that nobody's out to
make a profit off of it, that legal action is generally not taken
against such groups. And besides, it's not like any of us here want
to gyp Warner Bros. out of anything. We're not trying to get some
sort of cheap rip-off or anything. The product is just simply not
available! I would gladly buy it from WB if it were. In fact I
would even be willing to pay some small "royalty" (like $1 - $2 per
shirt) to WB for the T-shirt that we make, if that would keep us on
good terms with them. Basically, it seems to me that one way or
another we should be able to go ahead and make such a T-shirt.
<inhale!>
Thusly leading to subject of getting it made: First of all, we're
going to have to decide on just what we want on it. Something like
what Robert suggested: a bunch of the 'toons in front of a nice
background, would probably appeal to the most people. If we can use
a direct shot from tape, then that scene with them all in front of
the Looniversity would make a nice choice. If we hand draw it, then
we can of course come up with anything we like. In any case, it
should have some sort of caption, as Andrew Greene also suggested.
A minimal of "alt.tv.tiny-toon" and maybe something more in the line
of "Hit the Net..." at the top and "alt.tv.tiny-toon" at the bottom.
Or one I kinda like: "Smile! You're on alt.tv.tiny-toon!" with
one of the frames where they're all smiling with their teeth showing
in front of the Loo. The caption and the scene seem to fit together
nicely. And even non-toonsters would catch the phrase and might even
become interested in what 'alt.tv.tiny-toon' was. :-) Merely a
suggestion, of course. And if needed, I would of course be willing
to toss in whatever paltry talent I might have toward the cause (I
like to draw, though I'm sure there're others much better than I).
And unless someone knows of a better method (and speak up if you
do!), I also suggest that we use silk-screening for the best quality.
<gasp!><breath>
So, fellow diehard toonsters, what do we want on it?
Jamie Wilmoth
-- Michigan State University
wil...@buster.cps.msu.edu | "Thanks To Our Loyal Viewers
@cps.msu.edu | -----------------------------
@pleiades.cps.msu.edu | Both of You"
(grrr... another serious post! well, I guess I can live with it,
seeing as I am serious about getting one of these T-shirts)
(double grrr!... a serious _closing_, no less!)
Larry W. Virden
Note that Tiny Toon tee shirts and LOTS of other stuff are available
from the Warner mail order catalog - mine is at home, so I dont have
the details...
--
Larry W. Virden UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lwv27
Same Mbox: BITNET: lwv27@cas INET: lwv27%cas.B...@CUNYVM.CUNY.Edu
Personal: 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg,OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden
Keith Schwols
>
>Note that Tiny Toon tee shirts and LOTS of other stuff are available
>from the Warner mail order catalog - mine is at home, so I dont have
>the details...
Well, go home and get the catalog! :-)
I'm sure we would all like an address so we can have one.
Robert Jung
Well, I for one would not want a hand-drawn diagram. I've seen all the
"tribute" shirts that float around fraternities et al, and I can always spot
a bad copy-artist job as opposed to the "real" creator(s) drawing it.
If I could design a shirt, I'd just ask for the toonsters in front of Acme
Loo, with either no caption, or a non-alt.tv.tiny-toon specific line ("Stay
Tiny Tooned!", for instance B-).
Here's a third idea: If we all buy TTA t-shirts from Warners (see current
concurrent thread on The Warner Collection), maybe WB officials will wise up
and have more shirts made...
Toonatic
the best method of those discussed so far. Iron ons tend to fall off
in my experience, and silk-screening fades, even the monochrome ones.
In any case, PLEEEEZE count me in on any such items which you come up with.
write me at:
grib...@milton.u.washington.edu
for anything which needs to be talked out to get one.
It's been a while since I've posted (Vacation), but now that I'm back,
I hope to return to my regularly scheduled postings :)
_______________________________________________________________________________
[ grib...@milton.u.washington.edu | Certified, Card-carrying, Grade-A ]
[ (George Mhyre) | TOONATIC ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -
Chris Stassen
> Well, I for one would not want a hand-drawn diagram. I've seen all the
> "tribute" shirts that float around fraternities et al, and I can always spot
> a bad copy-artist job as opposed to the "real" creator(s) drawing it.
Well, the "real creator" doesn't draw any of the stuff you see on TV,
so there are plenty of artists running around who can do a good job.
I agree that "amateurs" can hack up a character pretty badly, but The
Net could easily find a pro.
In fact, I know of a decent animator (credits include Peanuts and Cathy
specials, The Brave Little Toaster, Ewoks, Care Bears). If you folks
decide to go ahead with your own T-shirt, I'll look into hiring him to
do the artwork (get in touch with me by Email).
--
Chris Stassen sta...@alc.com
(Note: My Email address differs from the 'reply-to' address.)
David Greene
1-800-223-6524 Orders (24 hrs?)
1-800-843-2341 Customer Service (8-12 am M-F)
I just called the order line and asked for a catalog -- they were happy
to mail one out (it's free). When asked, I told them I'd heard about it
through alt.tiny-toon on the internet... what fun :-)
operator: "Where did you hear about us... TV? magazine? newspaper?
"Uh, on the computer internet. Warner is quite popular because of
tiny-toons.
operator: "On the computer?"
"Yeah, the net connects lotsa schools and companies so people can
swap information... Ask your supervisor to connect your system --
it's bound to make you more productive."
operator: <pause> "Well, thank you, I'll pass that on. Enjoy your
catalog"
So call now... tell 'em you heard it on the net.
-David
Matthew Seitz
I LIKE IT! Here's my idea for the shirt: I feel that the shirt should
be linked with the newsgroup, otherwise we would just go out and by one
of the W.B. made shirts. I envision a side shot of a computer on the far
left side of the shirt. Calamity is maning it (natch!), with Buster and
Babs looking over his shoulder. Hamton is dusting off the top of the
monitor while Plucky is bring in a stack of papers marked "My Opinions.
Post to Net." I'm not sure what to do with the other characters, any ideas?
If such a thing is made, my brother and I would be intreseted in
getting one for each of us.
********************************************
*The reason Zipper's so big is because he's* Chris Seitz
*growing so fast!-Gadget Hackwrench, R.R. * A.T.T-T's Anti-Flamer
******************************************** Care Of........
--
Matthew Seitz
se...@netcom.com
E. Addison Laurent
> I LIKE IT! Here's my idea for the shirt: I feel that the shirt should
> be linked with the newsgroup, otherwise we would just go out and by one
> of the W.B. made shirts. I envision a side shot of a computer on the far
> left side of the shirt. Calamity is maning it (natch!), with Buster and
> Babs looking over his shoulder. Hamton is dusting off the top of the
> monitor while Plucky is bring in a stack of papers marked "My Opinions.
> Post to Net." I'm not sure what to do with the other characters, any ideas?
I think this is a grat idea. If just the regular TT pictures are used,
it won't show WHO the T-shirts are from.... gotta have a computer..
(Should Calamity be reading alt.catch.rrunner?)
Addison
ELA...@HUBCAP.CLEMSON.EDU
Eric Ant Von Laudermann
>a TTA birthday party for my boyfriend... TTA party goods, episodes shown
>at party, etc. I tried to get Baskin-Robbins to make a Dizzy Devil on
>the cake but they said they wouldn't, fearful of copyright infringement.
>Maybe it would have been okay, eh? Anyway, if I had more time I would
>have gotten permission... so, the moral is if you do something like this,
>get permission!
>
>-Yvonne
It would have been OK, I'm sure... the evidence would have been gone by the
end of the party!
But seriously, folks: I thought I heard somewhere that if you draw a
copyrighted character for your own use, and you INCLUDE A COPYRIGHT NOTICE,
then it's OK. I know that sounds flaky. But I made a bitmap of Buster Bunny
to tile the background of my DECstation, and I included, in the bitmap:
"(c) 1991 WB, Inc."
just in case. (I even put a little "tm" next to Buster's name...)
--E.V.L. (dr...@wpi.wpi.edu) #
Disclaimer: "It's all absolutely # Give a Hoot
devastatingly true, except the bits # -------------
that are lies." --Douglas Adams # Don't Pollute
Synth F. Oberheim
>But seriously, folks: I thought I heard somewhere that if you draw a
>copyrighted character for your own use, and you INCLUDE A COPYRIGHT NOTICE,
>then it's OK. I know that sounds flaky. But I made a bitmap of Buster Bunny
>to tile the background of my DECstation, and I included, in the bitmap:
>"(c) 1991 WB, Inc." just in case. (I even put a little "tm" next to
>Buster's name...)
This is a good idea. Regardless of whether it may or may not exclude us from
any legal liability, it *does* show our good-natured intentions (insert ascii
symbol for halo here) ...
===============================================================================
:: :: :: :: :: Synth sy...@euler.unm.edu U S E N E T
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: (F. Oberheim) sy...@yenta.alb.nm.us in color!
===============================================================================
"I think it's really the human part of him that's failing."
"Well, the human side likes the rich taste, but the robot in him loves
the frosty goodness."
-- Tom & Joel, MST3K