"Christmas festival is no place for the Christmas story"
BTR1701
of Christmas is inappropriate and possibly offensive.
------
By DON BABWIN
CHICAGO (AP) - A public Christmas festival is no place for the Christmas
story, the city says. Officials have asked organizers of a downtown
Christmas festival, the German Christkindlmarket, to reconsider using a
movie studio as a sponsor because it is worried ads for its film "The
Nativity Story" might offend non-Christians.
New Line Cinema, which said it was dropped, had planned to play a loop
of the new film on televisions at the event. The decision had both the
studio and a prominent Christian group shaking their heads.
"The last time I checked, the first six letters of Christmas still spell
out Christ," said Paul Braoudakis, spokesman for the Barrington,
Ill.-based Willow Creek Association, a group of more than 11,000
churches of various denominations. "It's tantamount to celebrating
Lincoln's birthday without talking about Abraham Lincoln."
He also said that there is a nativity scene in Daley Plaza - and that
some vendors at the festival sell items related to the nativity.
The city does not want to appear to endorse one religion over another,
said Cindy Gatziolis, a spokeswoman for the Mayor's Office of Special
Events. She acknowledged there is a nativity scene, but also said there
will be representations of other faiths, including a Jewish menorah, all
put up by private groups. She stressed that the city did not order
organizers to drop the studio as a sponsor.
"Our guidance was that this very prominently placed advertisement would
not only be insensitive to the many people of different faiths who come
to enjoy the market for its food and unique gifts, but also it would be
contrary to acceptable advertising standards suggested to the many
festivals holding events on Daley Plaza," Jim Law, executive director of
the office, said in a statement.
Officials with the German American Chamber of Commerce of the Midwest,
which has organized the event for several years, did not immediately
return calls for comment. The festival started Thursday.
An executive vice president with New Line Cinema, Christina Kounelias,
said the studio's plan to spend $12,000 in Chicago was part of an
advertising campaign around the country. Kounelias said that as far as
she knew, the Chicago festival was the only instance where the studio
was turned down.
Kounelias said she finds it hard to believe that non-Christians who
attended something called Christkindlmarket would be surprised or
offended by the presence of posters, brochures and other advertisements
of the movie.
"One would assume that if (people) were to go to Christkindlmarket,
they'd know it is about Christmas," she said.
Jonathan Levy
> they'd know it is about Christmas," she said.
Yes, one would. An excellent reason why this event with its huge
Christmas tree should not be on City property to start with.
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
"Jonathan Levy" <jlevy.ac...@zoemail.net> wrote:
Ar4e you a friggin dickshit or what?
Deal with it, the US is a Christian nation and the muslims, atheists and
jews can deal with it.
theget
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> Deal with it, the US is a Christian nation and the muslims, atheists and
> jews can deal with it.
I am overwhelmed by your example of love for your neighbors.
Theget
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
"theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
I am not saying anything against "my neighbors" - they are welcome to
have any beliefs, or lack of beliefs that they desire. I am saying this
is a christian country and those who are not christian should stop their
bitching and deal with it. Do pepoe like you complain when the wetbacks
have their illegal immigrant parades and do not learn english? No, you
call that celebrating diversity.
well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
official.
theget
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> In article <1164935022.2...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
> "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
>
> > J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> >
> > > Deal with it, the US is a Christian nation and the muslims, atheists and
> > > jews can deal with it.
> >
> > I am overwhelmed by your example of love for your neighbors.
> >
> > Theget
> >
>
> I am not saying anything against "my neighbors" -
I didn't say that you did.
> they are welcome to
> have any beliefs, or lack of beliefs that they desire.
> I am saying this
> is a christian country
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Is this a theocracy?
> and those who are not christian should stop their
> bitching and deal with it. Do pepoe like you complain when the wetbacks
> have their illegal immigrant parades and do not learn english? No, you
> call that celebrating diversity.
Actually, I increase diversity by being opposed to it.
> well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
> official.
Please tell us what denomination you are so we can all pick a different
one. Perhaps one more in line with the teachings of Jesus.
Theget
Brett A. Pasternack
The US is a secular nation. Deal with THAT.
BTR1701
Yes but if they are going to have a Christmas festival and call it
Christkindlmarket, then it's idiotic to then turn around and tell people
that the trappings of Christmas are inappropriate and offensive.
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M" <fat...@sings.com> wrote in message
news:fatlady-43C3B2...@news.isp.giganews.com...
: In article <1164935022.2...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,
Thomas Jefferson begs to differ.
z
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> Deal with it, the US is a Christian nation and the muslims, atheists and
> jews can deal with it.
That's what Jesus would say.
z
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
> official.
We talking Baptist, Episcopal, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox,
Presbyterian, Methodist? Mormon? Seventh Day Adventist? Jehovah's
Witness? Christian Scientist? Messianic Jews? You have to be more
specific when proposing legislation.
z
BTR1701 wrote:
> Yes but if they are going to have a Christmas festival and call it
> Christkindlmarket, then it's idiotic to then turn around and tell people
> that the trappings of Christmas are inappropriate and offensive.
Methinks the real question is why said festival requires sponsorship by
a movie studio, and the whoe question of corporate sponsorship of the
festival celebrating the birth of the Messiah. "And now, your personal
salvation! Brought to you by New Line Cinemas".
z
Even aside from the question of government sponsorship, etc. I see a
big difference between something voluntary like this festival which you
can deice to go to or not, and something essentially compulsory, like
prayer in schoolrooms you can "voluntarily" opt out of if you don't
mind being ostracized by the "normal" kids.
BTR1701
"z" <gzuc...@snail-mail.net> wrote:
Not just New Line. Apparently there were other corporate sponsors as
well (Nike, Pizza Hut, etc.). When the city started to get a lot of
flack for wanting to ban the ads for the movie, they backpedaled off
their "it's offensive" excuse and claimed that having ads for the movie
made the festival too commercialized. However, they didn't strike all
the *other* sponsors and offered no reason why ads for a movie make the
festival "too commercialized" but ads for sneakers and pizza do not.
nob...@junk.min.net
>Amazing. The city sponsors a Christmas festival then says that the story
>of Christmas is inappropriate and possibly offensive.
Cities shouldn't sponsor religious festivals. But this isn't a city
sponsoring a festival, it's private citizens, and they should be allowed
to include whatever religious content they desire. If a few people are
offended, too bad - there's no Constitutional protection against being
offended.
Alan
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J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
"z" <gzuc...@snail-mail.net> wrote:
> J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
>
> > well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
> > official.
>
> We talking Baptist, Episcopal, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox,
> Presbyterian, Methodist?
Sure.
Mormon? Seventh Day Adventist? Jehovah's
> Witness? Christian Scientist? Messianic Jews? You have to be more
> specific when proposing legislation.
Not a chance. They are not Christians nor do they have christian beliefs.
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
> > well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
> > official.
>
> Please tell us what denomination you are so we can all pick a different
> one. Perhaps one more in line with the teachings of Jesus.
>
> Theget
Oh, yoour going to pick something on the teachings of jesus. Sorry
sparky, go join the mormons, they are frigtard sect that are out in left
field (they are not christian either).
theget
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> > > well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
> > > official.
> >
> > Please tell us what denomination you are so we can all pick a different
> > one. Perhaps one more in line with the teachings of Jesus.
> >
> > Theget
>
> Oh, yoour going to pick something on the teachings of jesus.
Huh? I'm not sure I follow that. Is that English? Did you mean
"you're" instead of "yoour"? Or perhaps "your"? What does it mean "to
pick something on the teachings of Jesus"?
> Sorry
> sparky, go join the mormons, they are frigtard sect that are out in left
> field (they are not christian either).
Once again, I am overwhelmed by your display of love for your
neighbors.
The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
I think that if you're going to identify this country as being
Christian you will find yourself with the task of deciding exactly what
Christian means. It should be easy for you!
For the love of Jesus, start with your friends and neighbors in the
Christian Identity movement.
Or maybe you could try your Christian neighbors who handle snakes and
drink poison. Show your love for them by following their example. Your
survival will be proof of your faith.
Bottoms up!
Theget
Brett A. Pasternack
How do we know that these groups do not have Christian beliefs, but the
first group of groups do? They all believe in Jesus. They all believe
some things that are in the Bible, and some that are not.
That's the trouble with having an official religion, for those who are
of that religion--the government gets to decide what's part of that
religion, and what's not.
theget
Brett A. Pasternack wrote:
> That's the trouble with having an official religion, for those who are
> of that religion--the government gets to decide what's part of that
> religion, and what's not.
That's only trouble for them as don't do the deciding. That's why you
should support me as Chief High Religioso of The United States of
America. If I'm deciding then you and I won't have any trouble.
Plus it'll be a lot of fun. For us.
Probably not so much fun for J_the_whatever, but that's tough. He may
experience a burning sensation. Ah, the gods will be pleased. Or at
least that's what I'll tell everyone. And they'll have to listen.
For us it'll be one long party. I mean religous festival. The old
fashioned kind. I mean before brother Abraham messed up all those
idols in his dad's shop. You know, food, wine, women, I mean high
priestesses. Where's my noise maker?
So can I count on your support?
.
Theget
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote in message
news:1165121424.7...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
:
: J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
: > > > well, the country is a Christian country and it is time that be made
: > > > official.
: > >
: > > Please tell us what denomination you are so we can all pick a
different
: > > one. Perhaps one more in line with the teachings of Jesus.
: > >
: > > Theget
: >
: > Oh, yoour going to pick something on the teachings of jesus.
:
: Huh? I'm not sure I follow that. Is that English? Did you mean
: "you're" instead of "yoour"? Or perhaps "your"? What does it mean "to
: pick something on the teachings of Jesus"?
:
: > Sorry
: > sparky, go join the mormons, they are frigtard sect that are out in left
: > field (they are not christian either).
:
: Once again, I am overwhelmed by your display of love for your
: neighbors.
:
:
: The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
:
:
: I think that if you're going to identify this country as being
: Christian you will find yourself with the task of deciding exactly what
: Christian means. It should be easy for you!
:
: For the love of Jesus, start with your friends and neighbors in the
: Christian Identity movement.
:
Or the Creativity Movement (formerly The World Church of the Creator).
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
"theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
>
So does Charles Manson, so what?
theget
You see! I just knew that if you thought about it just a little bit
you'd come up with some one you felt simpatico with as your new
Official Christian Leader of the United States of America.
Theget
Mike O'Sullivan
>
> Thomas Jefferson begs to differ.
>
Was he the slave owner?
Jonathan Levy
> Cities shouldn't sponsor religious festivals. But this isn't a city
> sponsoring a festival, it's private citizens, and they should be allowed
> to include whatever religious content they desire. If a few people are
> offended, too bad - there's no Constitutional protection against being
> offended.
At the very least, the City is providing an expensive piece of real
estate for an extended period of time. I think most people organizing
an event would consider covering the venue cost to be pretty
significant sponsorship -- even if it is only in-kind. If the festival
were held at Wrigley Field for no rent, would people not say it was
being sponsored in part by the Chicago Cubs?
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"Mike O'Sullivan" <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:4tj6okF...@mid.individual.net...
: Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown wrote:
: >
: > Thomas Jefferson begs to differ.
: >
:
: Was he the slave owner?
You don't know who Thomas Jefferson was?
Mike O'Sullivan
> "Mike O'Sullivan" <mi...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:4tj6okF...@mid.individual.net...
> : Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown wrote:
> : >
> : > Thomas Jefferson begs to differ.
> : >
> :
> : Was he the slave owner?
>
> You don't know who Thomas Jefferson was?
>
"Thomas Jefferson had 187 slaves. We know that because he kept
meticulous hand-written records, which we still have.
On January 14, 1774, after he inherited slaves from first his mother and
then his father-in-law,
Thomas Jefferson wrote his inventory of 187 slaves. In his last
inventory, taken 50 years later in 1824,
Thomas Jefferson also had 187 slaves. Thomas Jefferson died on July 4,
1826 at the age of 83".
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
And when he had slaves they were legal to won, what's the problem?
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M
"theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
So you are saying Mormons are on the level of Charles Manson?
were you abused as a child or simply drink too much bleach under the
sink?
z
Who died and made you Pope?
Elle
>>> Mormon? Seventh Day Adventist? Jehovah's
>> > Witness? Christian Scientist? Messianic Jews? You have
>> > to be more
>> > specific when proposing legislation.
>>
>>
>> Not a chance. They are not Christians nor do they have
>> christian beliefs.
>
> Who died and made you Pope?
Who died and made the Pope (or any human) arbiter of "things
Christian"?
Think.
Brett A. Pasternack
> In article <1165246851.1...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1165121424.7...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>> "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>So does Charles Manson, so what?
>>
>>You see! I just knew that if you thought about it just a little bit
>>you'd come up with some one you felt simpatico with as your new
>>Official Christian Leader of the United States of America.
>>
>>Theget
>>
>
>
> So you are saying Mormons are on the level of Charles Manson?
No, he's saying that YOU are on the level of Charles Manson. Or, more
accurately, that you'd be a fan of his.
Jeez, you don't even have enough reading comprehension skills to know
when you're being insulted.
z
Brett A. Pasternack wrote:
> J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> > In article <1165246851.1...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> > "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <1165121424.7...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So does Charles Manson, so what?
> >>
> >>You see! I just knew that if you thought about it just a little bit
> >>you'd come up with some one you felt simpatico with as your new
> >>Official Christian Leader of the United States of America.
> >>
> >>Theget
> >>
> >
> >
> > So you are saying Mormons are on the level of Charles Manson?
>
> No, he's saying that YOU are on the level of Charles Manson. Or, more
> accurately, that you'd be a fan of his.
>
> Jeez, you don't even have enough reading comprehension skills to know
> when you're being insulted.
Now now, I'm sure he gets insulted all the time and probably doesn't
pay much attention any more.
z
> In article <1165246851.1...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
> > > So does Charles Manson, so what?
> > You see! I just knew that if you thought about it just a little bit
> > you'd come up with some one you felt simpatico with as your new
> > Official Christian Leader of the United States of America.
> So you are saying Mormons are on the level of Charles Manson?
No, that's what you said, Mr. Short-Term Memory.
Jonathan Levy
> Who died and made the Pope (or any human) arbiter of "things
> Christian"?
That may be the very definition of a softball question. :)
theget
J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> In article <1165246851.1...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
> "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
>
> > J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> > > In article <1165121424.7...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "theget" <the...@bigmailbox.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The few Mormons I've met identify themselves as being Christian.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So does Charles Manson, so what?
> >
> > You see! I just knew that if you thought about it just a little bit
> > you'd come up with some one you felt simpatico with as your new
> > Official Christian Leader of the United States of America.
> >
> > Theget
> >
>
> So you are saying Mormons are on the level of Charles Manson?
You really do have a thoroughly delightful way of reaching conclusions
that have absolutely no basis in fact. I suspect this is how you came
to the conclusion that America is a Christian nation (it isn't) and
that it should have an official religion (The reason Jefferson wanted
no official religion is that he had noted that the offical religion he
lived with in the colony of Viriginia was weakened as a direct result
of its official status and that non official religions were more
vigorous. They had to be to attract tithing parishoners.)
> were you abused as a child or simply drink too much bleach under the
> sink?
I fell on my head once. And once I asked a teacher why, if slavery was
so vile, and Sally Hemmings had the option of staying Paris as her
brother did, did she return to Viriginia and a state of servitude
voluntarily? What could her reason have been? In the neighborhood I
grew up in, asking questions like this was to risk a poor grade and
court ostracization. But I just can't help myself. OTOH, facing these
kinds of issues head on makes one less likely to draw conclusions like
the ones you've drawn in this thread.
But you, I am afraid, will now have to satisfy yourself with whatever
answers you get from your new religious leader: Charles Manson. My
advice? Practice crawling around on your knees. Think of it as
adopting an attitude of prayer.
And don't complain about it now. After all, you selected him.
Theget
z
theget wrote:
> You really do have a thoroughly delightful way of reaching conclusions
> that have absolutely no basis in fact. I suspect this is how you came
> to the conclusion that America is a Christian nation (it isn't) and
> that it should have an official religion (The reason Jefferson wanted
> no official religion is that he had noted that the offical religion he
> lived with in the colony of Viriginia was weakened as a direct result
> of its official status and that non official religions were more
> vigorous. They had to be to attract tithing parishoners.)
In other news:
"Many [evangelical Christians] tell me, "Mikey, OK, Anne Frank, Dr.
Seuss, Jack Benny, Gandhi, they're all burning eternally in the fires
of hell." And here's the distinction they just don't fucking get, these
cocksuckers do not get this: I would give my last drop of blood and my
last breath, and I would commend my three children in the Air Force --
one of whom's going to be heading to Iraq in a few months -- to give
their last drop of blood and their last breath to support the rights of
these people to believe that Anne Frank is burning eternally in hell
... If they want to believe that their version of Jesus has her burning
eternally in hell, I'd give my life for that. But I will not do that if
my government tells me who are the children of the greater God and who
are the children of the lesser God or no God at all. And that's what
these monsters are doing. "
"When you have the leadership believing that to be a good soldier, good
Marine, good airman or sailor you have to be not just a Christian but
the right type of Christian, we're no better than al-Qaida. And it's
hideous, beyond belief. My kids were called "fucking Jews" and accused
of total complicity, they and their people, in the execution of Jesus
Christ, by superiors up and down the chain of command at the Air Force
Academy. "
-Mikey Weinstein <http://salon.com/news/feature/2006/12/13/weinstein/>
Husky
Brett A. Pasternack wrote:
> J_the_fat_lady_I_sings_M wrote:
> > "Jonathan Levy" <jlevy.ac...@zoemail.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>"One would assume that if (people) were to go to Christkindlmarket,
> >>>they'd know it is about Christmas," she said.
> >>
> >>Christmas tree should not be on City property to start with.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Ar4e you a friggin dickshit or what?
> >
> > Deal with it, the US is a Christian nation and the muslims, atheists and
> > jews can deal with it.
>
> The US is a secular nation. Deal with THAT.
As a Druid, myself, I find this season as a time of mourning. All
those trees senselessly slaughtered, only to be thrown away in short
order.