Why are ATSC tuners so rare
NadCixelsyd
under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
(Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.
Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses? Am I the only
cheapskate with OTA television? One TV salesman told me that largt
TV's went up in wholesale price by about $40 after ATSC tuners were
required. Is $40 that much to add to a TV?
Bob Miller
companies were/are making them, few retailers stocked/stock any while a
few stocked one or so. Nobody was/is advertising them.
You will only find tuners where they are mandated, in DTV sets above
25". The mandate was about freeing the spectrum above channel 51 for
sale at auction it had nothing to do with furthering the DTV transition.
The FCC and Congress have written off OTA and are just waiting for the
appropriate moment to begin proceedings to sell off the rest of the OTA
spectrum below channel 51.
The appropriate moment may come when they own up to the real numbers of
users still use OTA after analog is turned off in 2009.
That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
it will come to rest near 4% max.
Couple that dismal number with the US developed modulation DMB-TH being
used by the Chinese and demonstrated at the 2008 Olympics and overlay
the utter screaming disaster that will occur in early 2009 when the
still small group of OTA users find that OTA digital is a problem where
they live.
Enter the astute politician and auctions.
Bye Bye free OTA.
Bob Miller
R Sweeney
"NadCixelsyd" <nadci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1165088035....@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
They are marked "SDTV".
And any big TV marked HDTV (but not "HD-Ready" or "HDTV Monitor") has an
ATSC tuner as well.
If you want to watch over the air TV past 2009, you will need a new SDTV,
HDTV, or a converter box. Converters are available now for about $200 or
will be available via the US gov't with a taxpayer subsidy for about $40 in
2008.
Bob Miller
converter is unknown. Manufacturers have mentioned $50 and $60 and $75.
But that may be for a large quantity bought by an entity like Congress
and delivered on the Potomac. It may not include any marketing, a return
policy, room for a markup for a retail store and all the other things
that go into a retail price.
More likely they will come with NO bells and whistles, (no on or off
LED? even) as the law seems to stipulate. Price will likely be $100 or
more and Congress will chip in the $40 rebate making the cheapest $60.
Congress will probably have to spend another $100 per box, out of the
taxpayers pocket, to make it happen. Education, return coverage, help desk.
If they farm it out to Haliburton then the extra cost per box will be $1000.
Bob Miller
Wes Newell
> Right now ATSC tuners are mandated for TV's over 25" but not for TV's
> under 25". I was in Best Buy and I didn't see any TV under 25" that
> had an ATSC tuner in it. Before they were mandated for large TV's
> (Mar-2006), they were tough to find in those TV's too.
>
In March of 2007, all TV's large and small must have an ATSC tuner buiilt
in. There are already some smaller LCD sets with built in digital tuner,
but not many yet. More and more will appear over the next few months.
> Is an ATSC tuner simply not needed by the masses?
Nothing is really needed. You can just use a monitor if you have an
external video source.
> Am I the only cheapskate with OTA television?
Not by a long shot. That's all I've ever had. No cable or sat ever in 60
years. I did switch to digital over a year ago though. I don't even use
NTSC any longer.
> One TV salesman told me that largt TV's went up in wholesale price by
> about $40 after ATSC tuners were required. Is $40 that much to add to
> a TV?
It doesn't cost $40. The extra tuner cost about $5. You may notice $10-20
difference in prices when they first come out. That extra cost will go
away over time as they drop the NTSC tuners in them. You can buy a 32"
SDTV with digital tuner for $276 at Walmart. ATSC STB's are a lot more
expensive since the whole box has to be built. And you don't need an HDTV
to take advantage of an HDTV program.
--
Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org
http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv
My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php
HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm
Wes Newell
> That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
> 2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
> it will come to rest near 4% max.
I'm really getting sick of your fud. Close to 100% of TV watches watch OTA
Network broadcast. That they get it via cable, sat, or antenna means
nothing.
Bob Miller
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:13:09 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:
>
>> That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
>> 2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
>> it will come to rest near 4% max.
>
> I'm really getting sick of your fud. Close to 100% of TV watches watch OTA
> Network broadcast. That they get it via cable, sat, or antenna means
> nothing.
>
from cable or sat.
Then the only use of the most valuable spectrum the public owns, beach
front property it has been called, is being used to deliver content to
cable and satellite headends from content providers.
This could be accomplished by fiber, copper or microwave link and is
already done in very many cases. The OTA link being only a requirement
of the law.
That is a broadcaster to qualify for must carry must show that they can
deliver a signal from their transmitter site to the cable companies
headend via OTA.
After proving that this is possible many broadcasters then actually
deliver via copper, fiber or microwave.
I think that the public and Congress would disagree with you that this
means nothing. What it means is that this spectrum is being wasted and
might as well be sold.
The actual "nothing" that you speak of might mean $100 billion to the US
treasury.
Bob Miller
Bruce Tomlin
"NadCixelsyd" <nadci...@aol.com> wrote:
As someone else has said, there are a few, but they are marked "SDTV".
HD resolution just isn't that useful on a small screen unless you view
it at a very short distance, like a computer monitor, and then it would
require higher cost display for the higher resolution.
Standalone STB tuners are rare because they can't sell you a
subscription to satellite TV and make a spiff off it. And perhaps
because the kind of people who want HD right now generally already have
or want satellite or cable TV.
Steve Stone
providers do not provide ALL the sub channels available via OTA and it is a
significant amount of local programming, even after factoring out the junk
content.
You are not the only one using OTA.
Steve
shutterbug
that will probably last for years.
Analog TV (is)was fairly simple for most people to use.
Didgital technologies are far more complicated and the flat screen
technologies have their own complextivity. Many "HD" TV's do not work well
moving between analog(4x3) and didgital (16x9) format shows but some do
better than others.
Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception and
thats probably is going to continue. In most areas, people who now are
able to receive with "rabbit ear" inside antennas will have to have an
external outdoor antenna or watch their shows become "pixalated" which in my
view is worse then "snow".
"Steve Stone" <zzsp...@citlink.netzz> wrote in message
news:vGBch.6797$ya1....@news02.roc.ny...
Wes Newell
> One thing is for sure: There is going to be an enormous amount of
> confusion that will probably last for years.
>
Only for idiots, Unfortunately, that includes about 90% of the population.
> Analog TV (is)was fairly simple for most people to use.
>
I wouldn't say most people by a long shot.:-)
> Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception
> and thats probably is going to continue.
That's because they are either too stupid or too lazy and have to have it
setup for them.:-)
> In most areas, people who now are able to receive with "rabbit ear"
> inside antennas will have to have an external outdoor antenna or watch
> their shows become "pixalated" which in my view is worse then "snow".
>
That's just BS. ATSC can be received inside just like NTSC. And if you
don't get it good, then you didn't get NTSC good either. And temporary
pixelation is prefered here over full time snow and herring bone 100% of
the time as happens with NTSC. I haven't watched anything but ATSC since
I got my first ATSC tuner over a year ago. Got 5 of them now.
Bob Miller
> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:27:06 +0000, shutterbug wrote:
>
>> One thing is for sure: There is going to be an enormous amount of
>> confusion that will probably last for years.
>>
> Only for idiots, Unfortunately, that includes about 90% of the population.
>
population obviously is not nearly as stupid. They are buying OTA
receivers by the millions. Only half of France is covered so far by
digital and 20% of homes there have already freely bought OTA DTV
receivers. 30% in Japan, Germany and Australia after 2-3-4 years. 16
million freely purchased receivers in the UK where they have 25 million
homes.
Lot of smart people overseas.
>> Analog TV (is)was fairly simple for most people to use.
>>
> I wouldn't say most people by a long shot.:-)
>
>> Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception
>> and thats probably is going to continue.
>
> That's because they are either too stupid or too lazy and have to have it
> setup for them.:-)
>
Again overseas they seem to have little problem with OTA DTV. Pick up a
receiver for $50 and $2 antenna at the local convenience store and plug
it in and your in business.
>> In most areas, people who now are able to receive with "rabbit ear"
>> inside antennas will have to have an external outdoor antenna or watch
>> their shows become "pixalated" which in my view is worse then "snow".
>>
> That's just BS. ATSC can be received inside just like NTSC. And if you
> don't get it good, then you didn't get NTSC good either. And temporary
> pixelation is prefered here over full time snow and herring bone 100% of
> the time as happens with NTSC. I haven't watched anything but ATSC since
> I got my first ATSC tuner over a year ago. Got 5 of them now.
>
So your standard is NTSC. NTSC was developed in the thirties. Some
standard. It would seem that we might expect something a bit better from
a digital standard in the 21st century.
And we can, most of the world already has standards that are far better.
ISDB-T in Brazil, Japan and soon S. America and C. America. DVB-T in
Europe, Australia, Taiwan, Russia, etc. DMB-TH, the best modulation, in
China.
ATSC will not be receivable for many people indoors especially in the
larger cities. It will have problems in many other areas. A few drop
outs a week will be enough for many others to drive them to cable and
satellite over time. Most people will not even bother to try OTA DTV in
the US as it is not being sold or explained to them.
The current OTA DTV population in the US, those actually using it, after
9 years is somewhere between one and two percent.
Bob Miller
David
news:64Ich.6441$tM1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Wes Newell wrote:
>> On Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:27:06 +0000, shutterbug wrote:
>>
>>> One thing is for sure: There is going to be an enormous amount of
>>> confusion that will probably last for years.
>>>
>> Only for idiots, Unfortunately, that includes about 90% of the
>> population.
>>
> In most other countries that have started their OTA DTV transitions the
> population obviously is not nearly as stupid. They are buying OTA
> receivers by the millions. Only half of France is covered so far by
> digital and 20% of homes there have already freely bought OTA DTV
> receivers. 30% in Japan, Germany and Australia after 2-3-4 years. 16
> million freely purchased receivers in the UK where they have 25 million
> homes.
>
> Lot of smart people overseas.
>
>>> Analog TV (is)was fairly simple for most people to use.
>>>
>> I wouldn't say most people by a long shot.:-)
>>
>>> Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception
>>> and thats probably is going to continue.
>>
>> That's because they are either too stupid or too lazy and have to have it
>> setup for them.:-)
>>
> Again overseas they seem to have little problem with OTA DTV. Pick up a
> receiver for $50 and $2 antenna at the local convenience store and plug it
> in and your in business.
This lying datacasting dork has been thrown out of about four moderated HDTV
discussion forums.
So, here he is posting the same lie about the $2 antenna, the same lie he's
been posting for *eight years*.
scott...@gmail.com
They are marked "SDTV"."
They didn't earlier this year. I had to replace my 20" TV with another
analog 20" TV, which I will throw away as soon as I can get a small
enough TV with a digital tuner in it. (runs off the Best Buy to look
at TV's).
scott...@gmail.com
> They are marked "SDTV".
I don't see any on their website.
R Sweeney
<scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165257680.3...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Times change quickly these days.
BB and other retailers don't seem to be in a real hurry to sell the SDTV's
though.... probably something about more profit in a real HD.
R Sweeney
<scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1165258416.4...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
>> They are marked "SDTV".
>
> I don't see any on their website.
Then you are not looking very well... 26 found on this search for "standard
definition"
m...@privacy.net
>Then you are not looking very well... 26 found on this search for "standard
>definition"
These are not small.
I want 20" and smaller sdtv
R Sweeney
Wes Newell
>
> <scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1165258416.4...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>> Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
>>> They are marked "SDTV".
>>
>> I don't see any on their website.
>
> Then you are not looking very well... 26 found on this search for "standard
> definition"
>
None of which are under 26" except for the 20" it list which is for
Directv. I haven't seen a single small tube type SDTV with digital tuner
anywhere yet. I have seen a few widescreen LCD's in the 23" range. But the
price was rediculous iirc. I thought they'd be out ealry for Christmas,
but I guess I was mistaken. Maybe they're trying to dump the old NTSC only
sets first. It appears people in the industry really screwed this up still
having so many of the old sets.
Bob Miller
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:39:33 -0500, R Sweeney wrote:
>
>> <scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165258416.4...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
>>>> They are marked "SDTV".
>>> I don't see any on their website.
>> Then you are not looking very well... 26 found on this search for "standard
>> definition"
>>
> None of which are under 26" except for the 20" it list which is for
> Directv. I haven't seen a single small tube type SDTV with digital tuner
> anywhere yet. I have seen a few widescreen LCD's in the 23" range. But the
> price was rediculous iirc. I thought they'd be out ealry for Christmas,
> but I guess I was mistaken. Maybe they're trying to dump the old NTSC only
> sets first. It appears people in the industry really screwed this up still
> having so many of the old sets.
>
OTA capability. Maybe they envision a lot of returns of such sets since
that is the experience they have had with STB's.
An STB is one thing, a larger DTV set is just a bigger hassle when it
comes back. Retailers don't like a lot of open box specials.
Bob Miller
Thumper
<w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 04 Dec 2006 19:39:33 -0500, R Sweeney wrote:
>
>>
>> <scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1165258416.4...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
>>>> They are marked "SDTV".
>>>
>>> I don't see any on their website.
>>
>> Then you are not looking very well... 26 found on this search for "standard
>> definition"
>>
>None of which are under 26" except for the 20" it list which is for
>Directv. I haven't seen a single small tube type SDTV with digital tuner
>anywhere yet. I have seen a few widescreen LCD's in the 23" range. But the
>price was rediculous iirc. I thought they'd be out ealry for Christmas,
>but I guess I was mistaken. Maybe they're trying to dump the old NTSC only
>sets first. It appears people in the industry really screwed this up still
>having so many of the old sets.
I agree with you. My wife has a 13" tv which she takes to work. It's
shot and needs to be replaced but we cannot find a tv that small with
an atsc tuner.
Thumper
scott...@gmail.com
> shot and needs to be replaced but we cannot find a tv that small with
> an atsc tuner.
I'm putting off purchases of new equipment until I can get it with a
built in ATSC tuner. I also expected them to possibly have it
available for this Christmas season.
m...@privacy.net
>Maybe they're trying to dump the old NTSC only
>sets first
This is what I'm thinking as well
Wes Newell
it's a shame some exec didn't see the potential for a small tube type ATSC
set for this Christmas. They could have dominated sales, not to mention
give them a leadin to the customers for later upgrades to larger ATSC
sets. It's still not to late to reap benefits from being the first, but it
will be soon.
Bruce Tomlin
"shutterbug" <shutt...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
> Most people now use cable, Sat. or some other indirect way of reception and
> thats probably is going to continue. In most areas, people who now are
> able to receive with "rabbit ear" inside antennas will have to have an
> external outdoor antenna or watch their shows become "pixalated" which in my
> view is worse then "snow".
Not true. My mother was complaining about bad low-VHF reception on
cable, so I set up an ATSC tuner with a rabbit ears set. Right away it
got all but one of the local digital channels except for one of the
secondary networks, and a couple of months later it was able to pick
that up too, without touching anything. The picture is perfect across
the board (which wouldn't happen with analog), and she does actually use
it. In fact, it's enough of an improvement that she repeatedly thanks
me for saving her from having to buy a new TV set.
Bert Hyman
news:bruce#fanboy.net-7E165...@news.newsreader.com:
> My mother was complaining about bad low-VHF reception on
> cable, so I set up an ATSC tuner with a rabbit ears set.
This suggests you bought a stand-alone ATSC tuner. Who makes it?
Where'd you find it?
Trying to search on "ATSC tuner" in Google produces results that
aren't particularly useful, as you might imagine.
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@iphouse.com
Jim Gilliland
> bruce#fanbo...@127.0.0.1 (Bruce Tomlin) wrote in
> news:bruce#fanboy.net-7E165...@news.newsreader.com:
>
>> My mother was complaining about bad low-VHF reception on
>> cable, so I set up an ATSC tuner with a rabbit ears set.
>
> This suggests you bought a stand-alone ATSC tuner. Who makes it?
> Where'd you find it?
Here's one that turned up when I did a search:
Bert Hyman
news:4575d38a$0$28608$c3e...@news.astraweb.com:
I've seen Samsung's set-top HD tuners before (are they the only folks
marketing them?), but are there any SD tuners? That's a big,
expensive box to drive a 9" kitchen TV set :-)
Richard C.
news:1165257680.3...@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
> "Best Buy has a number of 25" and smaller TV's with ATSC tuners.
> They are marked "SDTV"."
>
Sam's Club is stocking several now too.
Up to 27"
Jim Gilliland
>
> I've seen Samsung's set-top HD tuners before (are they the only folks
> marketing them?), but are there any SD tuners? That's a big,
> expensive box to drive a 9" kitchen TV set :-)
No, I think there are others. LG and Zenith, for example (same company, if I'm
not mistaken). But they're all going to be around that price point.
Bob Miller
>
LG and Zenith are one and the same. Neither makes any 8-VSB STB
receivers for the retail market. LG does make an STB 8-VSB for a
particular customer, a satellite provider though.
And LG makes COFDM receivers for other parts of the world. They say they
can't make a profit on 8-VSB receivers even though they own most of the
IP royalty rights for 8-VSB. Hard to explain that one to their
shareholders I expect.
But they will make the money back on COFDM based receivers.
Bob Miller
Bruce Tomlin
Bert Hyman <be...@iphouse.com> wrote:
> This suggests you bought a stand-alone ATSC tuner. Who makes it?
> Where'd you find it?
It was a closeout model at Sears a couple of years ago.
R Sweeney
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> it's a shame some exec didn't see the potential for a small tube type ATSC
> set for this Christmas. They could have dominated sales, not to mention
> give them a leadin to the customers for later upgrades to larger ATSC
> sets. It's still not to late to reap benefits from being the first, but it
> will be soon.
I heard the president of Best Buy speak on small HD tv's at a CEMA HDTV
meeting in 1998.
He said he had no interest in getting back to the days where he lost money
selling TV's and that $800-1000 should be the stable selling point for tv's.
Meaning that features and quality should be added as time goes by to keep
the sets in the price range for profitability.
R Sweeney
"R Sweeney" <DockS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ouedncCqpqwxcunY...@comcast.com...
what I meant by this is that it is apparent that I am no longer able to
accurately judge small (less than huge) set size.
I swear the 25" inch ones look like 19" to me.
R Sweeney
"Bruce Tomlin" <bruce#fanbo...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:bruce%23fanboy.net-BE1F...@news.newsreader.com...
The Sylvania/Funai?
Such a deal, used the Sears card and got an additional $20 off... $119 after
everything.
cjdayton...@cox.net
And LG makes the 5th generation chipset in their own televisions.
Yes we all know what you are going to say about that, Bob, but
NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT BOB!
The 5th generation LG chipset works very well, virtually eliminating
multipath problems and pulling in low powered stations that other
receivers cannot. Since digital receivers are mandated on more and
more televisions in the US, OF COURSE LG ISN'T GOING TO MAKE A STB!
Why are you so stupid that you cannot figure that out? Maybe when
the analog signals are cutoff there will be an LG stb available,
after all, someone will have to make them. Why do you persist, Bob?
Chip
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
G-squared
<snip>
> >> I want 20" and smaller sdtv
> >
> > small is relative
>
> what I meant by this is that it is apparent that I am no longer able
to
> accurately judge small (less than huge) set size.
>
> I swear the 25" inch ones look like 19" to me.
That's because they've gone metric
GG
Bob Nielsen
The last set of eyeglasses I got does that!
Bob Miller
>
What price is that? DTV SD COFDM based receivers start at below $50 in
Europe. Can be had on Ebay for far less. Try Ebay for "Freeview" to see.
HDTV receivers will go on sale in China for a list of $30 and drop from
there.
Bob Miller
Wes Newell
That's standard retail marketing. The more expensive something is the more
money they make on it. They'd rather sell you a $1000 piece of crap than a
superior $500 product anytime. Why do you think cheap products are given
such a bad rap. it's not because they are inferior products. It's because
the dealer can't make as much money on them.
Wes Newell
> what I meant by this is that it is apparent that I am no longer able to
> accurately judge small (less than huge) set size.
>
> I swear the 25" inch ones look like 19" to me.
That's because an SD picture on a 25" widescreen isn't much bigger than a
19" 4:3 set (actually about 20").:-)
R Sweeney
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:18:16 -0500, R Sweeney wrote:
>
>>
>> "Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
>>> it's a shame some exec didn't see the potential for a small tube type
>>> ATSC
>>> set for this Christmas. They could have dominated sales, not to mention
>>> give them a leadin to the customers for later upgrades to larger ATSC
>>> sets. It's still not to late to reap benefits from being the first, but
>>> it
>>> will be soon.
>>
>> I heard the president of Best Buy speak on small HD tv's at a CEMA HDTV
>> meeting in 1998.
>>
>> He said he had no interest in getting back to the days where he lost
>> money
>> selling TV's and that $800-1000 should be the stable selling point for
>> tv's.
>> Meaning that features and quality should be added as time goes by to keep
>> the sets in the price range for profitability.
>
> That's standard retail marketing. The more expensive something is the more
> money they make on it. They'd rather sell you a $1000 piece of crap than a
> superior $500 product anytime. Why do you think cheap products are given
> such a bad rap. it's not because they are inferior products. It's because
> the dealer can't make as much money on them.
$500 is ABOVE the mean price for stuff at BB... so it wasn't the selling
price
the problem was/is that the profit in the TV segment had evaporated to zero
so that the $500 TV was generating less profit than the $50 video game.
R Sweeney
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> On Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:20:09 -0500, R Sweeney wrote:
>
>> what I meant by this is that it is apparent that I am no longer able to
>> accurately judge small (less than huge) set size.
>>
>> I swear the 25" inch ones look like 19" to me.
>
> That's because an SD picture on a 25" widescreen isn't much bigger than a
> 19" 4:3 set (actually about 20").:-)
could be
Joe Moore
>bruce#fanbo...@127.0.0.1 (Bruce Tomlin) wrote in
>news:bruce#fanboy.net-7E165...@news.newsreader.com:
>
>> My mother was complaining about bad low-VHF reception on
>> cable, so I set up an ATSC tuner with a rabbit ears set.
>
>This suggests you bought a stand-alone ATSC tuner. Who makes it?
>Where'd you find it?
>
>Trying to search on "ATSC tuner" in Google produces results that
>aren't particularly useful, as you might imagine.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=7f170cdc127e19bbeb5e310de3e358ea&t=179095
In case the link is split by your newsreader, go to www.avsforum.com,
click on HDTV then HDTV Reception Hardware then The Official AVS HDTV
STB Synopsis. Currently folks are raving about the new Samsung
DTB-H260F. About 180 bucks, fantastic reception, great improvement
over their previous model the SIR-t451. Unfortunately a design
oversight keeps it from being suitable for most legacy tv's. None of
the menus are available on the composite or s-video outputs. This
makes setup tricky. A workaround is to use one of the component
outputs to a composite input for a black and white picture during
setup, but DAMN that was stupid.
joemooreaterolsdotcom
Sid Druen
this group may be able to help me with. I have an early HDTV without an OTA
tuner. No problem since I have cable, But the local ABC and FOX affiliates
are both owned by a company that wants to charge the cable company extra for
their digital signal. Cable company refuses, so I have two stations'
antennas within 6 miles but can't get their digital signals. I think a
tuner is what I need, but as soon as I spend $150+ on a tuner, they may
patch up their differences and the tuner is excess. Any cheap solutions
come to mind from those of you who know? It is frustrating to have HDTV and
watch ABC and Fox in regular old mode. Thanks for any suggestions,
Sid
Sweeney" <DockS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:prWdnSMcrfclG-rY...@comcast.com...
Wes Newell
> I am a novice trying to find a simple cheap solution to a situation that
> this group may be able to help me with. I have an early HDTV without an
> OTA tuner. No problem since I have cable, But the local ABC and FOX
> affiliates are both owned by a company that wants to charge the cable
> company extra for their digital signal. Cable company refuses, so I
> have two stations' antennas within 6 miles but can't get their digital
> signals.
So the cable co. wants to get it for free and then charge you for it
without giving anything back to the provider. Can't say as I blame the
station owners for wanting to charge the cable co. a fee.
> I think a tuner is what I need, but as soon as I spend $150+ on a tuner,
> they may patch up their differences and the tuner is excess. Any cheap
> solutions come to mind from those of you who know? It is frustrating to
> have HDTV and watch ABC and Fox in regular old mode. Thanks for any
> suggestions,
You might find some cheap solution on ebay, if you call $$75-$100 cheap.
There are certainly cheap PCI ATSC tuner cards for a PC if you already
have a PC that would work for you. Last HDTV tuner card I bought was
$17.50. I've got 5 ATSC tuner cards in my media servers. Unfortunatley, I
don't know of any cheap STB solutions. Don't even really know of any
resonably priced solutions. In the near future, you'll probably be able to
buy a cheap vcr/dvd recorder with a built in ATSC tuner that will also
serve as a recorder or dvd player. How near that is I couldn't say, but
probably within 6 months.
Bruce Tomlin
"Sid Druen" <dru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a novice trying to find a simple cheap solution to a situation that
> this group may be able to help me with. I have an early HDTV without an OTA
> tuner. No problem since I have cable, But the local ABC and FOX affiliates
> are both owned by a company that wants to charge the cable company extra for
> their digital signal. Cable company refuses, so I have two stations'
> antennas within 6 miles but can't get their digital signals. I think a
> tuner is what I need, but as soon as I spend $150+ on a tuner, they may
> patch up their differences and the tuner is excess. Any cheap solutions
> come to mind from those of you who know? It is frustrating to have HDTV and
> watch ABC and Fox in regular old mode. Thanks for any suggestions,
> Sid
Even if they do finally settle their differences, they will surely
re-compress the OTA signal to a lower bit rate, and you will still get a
better HD picture from an OTA STB. And it's a great backup if the cable
TV goes out.
Del Mibbler
>I am a novice trying to find a simple cheap solution to a situation that
>this group may be able to help me with. I have an early HDTV without an OTA
>tuner. No problem since I have cable, But the local ABC and FOX affiliates
>are both owned by a company that wants to charge the cable company extra for
>their digital signal. Cable company refuses, so I have two stations'
>antennas within 6 miles but can't get their digital signals. I think a
>tuner is what I need, but as soon as I spend $150+ on a tuner, they may
>patch up their differences and the tuner is excess. Any cheap solutions
>come to mind from those of you who know? It is frustrating to have HDTV and
>watch ABC and Fox in regular old mode. Thanks for any suggestions,
>Sid
I recommend getting something that can record and play HD and that
receives both OTA and clear QAM (cable). That way it's still useful
after all of the broadcast stations are also on cable. Although there
have been a few STBs that do that, the most practical way is a tuner
that works with a computer: either a PCI card or a USB connection.
Wes Newell, who also responded to you, seems to have a pretty capable
Linux/MythTV/networked system. But he's not interested in cable. He
can advise you more if you want to go that route.
I have two types of PC-based tuners: MyHD MDP-130 PCI card for my HTPC
and AutumnWave OnAir GT USB tuner for my laptop. The MyHD card is
older technology but has the BIG advantage that it does MPEG2 decoding
in hardware and has its own output, so the computer doesn't have to be
especially fast (800 MHz is fine) and the video card isn't used for
the HD output. The GT does need a fast computer and a good video
card, preferably with DXVA support. My 1.7 GHz laptop is just barely
fast enough, as long as I don't try to do anything else at the same
time.
Don't expect to get more digital cable channels than the local
broadcasts they carry. These tuners can't show encrypted channels,
and most are. You might get a few others, but that's up to your cable
company.
Del Mibbler
scott...@gmail.com
Wes Newell
> Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
Wrong.
G-squared
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 09:06:03 -0800, scott21230 wrote:
>
> > Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
>
> Wrong.
>
>
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-2272612-0371054?asin=B000FOV2EO&AFID=Yahoo&LNM=B000FOV2EO|Norcent_20%22_LCD_Television&ref=tgt_adv_XPYD0100
>
But Wes, he wants it for $129.
Happy New Years
GG
R Sweeney
"G-squared" <stra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1167331147.9...@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
saw one at Costco too... LCD for $399
Berniez
tuners sold after March 2007 in any device, vcrs, tv, dvrs, etc
Bernie
cjdayton...@cox.net
I believe that it is 2009, not 2007.
R Sweeney
<cjdayton...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:20061230111447.095$G...@newsreader.com...
> Berniez <ber...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> scott...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
>> >
>> After March 2007, thats all that will legally be available. No NTSC
>> tuners sold after March 2007 in any device, vcrs, tv, dvrs, etc
>> Bernie
>
> I believe that it is 2009, not 2007.
>
> Chip
Actually I think that the requirement is that 100% of all TV's sold,
regardless of size, must have an ATSC tuner, not that they can not also have
an NTSC one.
Ed
Not entirely accurate. The requirement is that all devices with tuners
contain an ATSC tuner. Nothing prevents them from having an NTSC tuner
as well, and they probably will since they're so darn cheap. NTSC just
won't work after analog broadcast goes dead... unless you have cable of
course.
Steven
Wes Newell wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:13:09 +0000, Bob Miller wrote:
>
> > That number will be somewhere between the number of OTA DTV users today,
> > 2% or less and the number of OTA analog users today, 7% or less. I think
> > it will come to rest near 4% max.
>
> I'm really getting sick of your fud. Close to 100% of TV watches watch OTA
> Network broadcast. That they get it via cable, sat, or antenna means
> nothing.
Our current television system dates to 1941, hence it is 65. Congress
is a bunch of senior citizens bent on hobbling their brethren. Why
should television be any different?
Would YOU shoot your parents? The electronics industry has nothing to
grow on and the profit margins have "dried up" for them. Do we need to
start trashing viable and useful systems every 5-10 years like they are
cars?
Digital has been great, I cannot argue that when speaking about
production. I haven't seen very many robust transmission systems out
there and NONE of them will ever break GRACEFULLY like analog. Snow is
okay compared to nothing. I am told the Japanese created a beautiful
high definition system called MUSE. ANALOG, 14 MHz? but analog. Do you
know how much can be allocated to broadcasting in Japan? Not a lot
compared to the US I'd think. If they were willing to make that
commitment and spend the money it must have been well conceived.
Neither Philco nor RCA Victor had the system we use today. If it hadn't
been for a competitive argument the National Television Standards
Committee wouldn't have been formed such as it was. Some forget how
much hard work was done by Philco in television, or even know about the
Apple color CRT prototypes of the 1950s that were revolutionary but
never mass produced. Philco used a 343 line system, RCA didn't have
525...that came about when NTSC experiments were developing many of the
features that made television in the US practical and reliable.
John Logie Baird had developed an approximately 600 line COLOR system
before World War II that got buried by the war. When the British
Broadcasting Corporation started thinking about color in the early
1950s they started with NTSC color and kept working on it until it
became Phase Alternating Lines (PAL). Why it took over 13 years to
develop a UHF network system on a publicly funded system is beyond me
but then again the System A 405 line signals weren't snuffed until the
1980s (gracious chaps those British). That switch DID make sense. NTSC
has been around 39 years beyond that rollout.
Radio is just as messy, but I hear there is a better system than HD
Radio that makes more sense just as I read here that there may be one
for television. Maybe that would be good. I will but a box and build a
headend if the conversion completes but I expect to be dead before I
even would need to buy a new TV (and I have over twelve if you count
the broken sets). I have tube radios and tons of vintage stereo gear
that I got for pennies and fix up. I let the world test things first
and buy the leftovers.
Steven
Wes Newell wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 09:06:03 -0800, scott21230 wrote:
>
> > Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
>
> Wrong.
>
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-2272612-0371054?asin=B000FOV2EO&AFID=Yahoo&LNM=B000FOV2EO|Norcent_20%22_LCD_Television&ref=tgt_adv_XPYD0100
My God. PLEASE. Buy a Yugo.
Wes Newell
> Berniez <ber...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> scott...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
>> >
>> After March 2007, thats all that will legally be available. No NTSC
>> tuners sold after March 2007 in any device, vcrs, tv, dvrs, etc
>> Bernie
>
> I believe that it is 2009, not 2007.
>
2009 (Feb) is the date that all NTSC transmittions stop in the US. In
March of 2007, all TV devices with tuners must also include an ATSC
(digital) tuner. They will still be able to sell ones without it afaik,
but should called monitors. AFAIK, NTSC will still be alive and well in
Canada, Mexico and possibly other countries for years to come. The cost to
an ATSC tuner to a TV, vcr, whatever is very minmal. There shouldn't be a
noticable increase in price in any set, as at most the extra cost will
be about a buck, but you know how that goes,:-)
Steven
Everybody wants you to learn Linux too. I give up. It's worse than
Windows Me.
Richard C.
news:pJydnbBOmdHoIgvY...@comcast.com...
Do you know it this requirement will also extend to DVD-R and HD units?
I wish I could find a DVD-R with hard drive that has a built-in ATSC
receiver!
====================
Berniez
legal requirements after March, 2007. My statement was too vague. Again
this only applies to tuner equipped units. As far as pricing. I read
where there is a company that has a combo NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner on a chip
available to TV manufacturers for around $3.00 per chip. Unbelievable.
Wish I still had that link to post here. So your assumption about NTSC
tuners still being available is probably accurate as well.
Bernie
Wes Newell
> Do you know it this requirement will also extend to DVD-R and HD units?
> I wish I could find a DVD-R with hard drive that has a built-in ATSC
> receiver!
You can plug 1 or more atsc tuners in a PC along with a dvd burner. Record
them to HDD, burn them to dvd, whatever.
Wes Newell
> As far as pricing. I read
> where there is a company that has a combo NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner on a chip
> available to TV manufacturers for around $3.00 per chip. Unbelievable.
> Wish I still had that link to post here.
Here's one of them.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=121862&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=822231&highlight
Ed
My understanding of the rule is that it will apply to ANY device that
contains a tuner, including VCRs DVD recorders and standalone DVRs. Of
course. That being said, we will either start seeing them at reasonable
prices shortly before the deadline, or they will dispense with tuners
all together.
Since I've got an HD "ready" tv set, I'll be very interested to see what
materializes over the next few months.
R Sweeney
"Richard C." <post...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:mtOdnf242rN0cQrY...@comcast.com...
Yes... all devices with tuners
Richard C.
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:01:31 -0800, Richard C. wrote:
>
>> Do you know it this requirement will also extend to DVD-R and HD units?
>> I wish I could find a DVD-R with hard drive that has a built-in ATSC
>> receiver!
>
> You can plug 1 or more atsc tuners in a PC along with a dvd burner. Record
> them to HDD, burn them to dvd, whatever.
>
Thanks.
I knew about that solution, but I like the units with
DVD-R/DVD-Ram/HDD for use in my HT room.
I still pose my question if anyone knows the answer.
Richard C.
Wish I could get a DVD-R/HDD unit with one now.
There seems to be none.
R Sweeney
"Richard C." <post...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> Wish I could get a DVD-R/HDD unit with one now.
> There seems to be none.
kinda makes sense since DVD-R isn't big enough to store HD
Wes Newell
LSI Logic Domino 8633 for one. But a PC would probably be cheaper now.
Wes Newell
Well, to be fair, it will store it, just not a lot. You can get about
1.25hr worth on a single layer dvd
Richard C.
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 17:39:45 -0800, Richard C. wrote:
>
>> "Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:vlTlh.6419$0F1.4218@trnddc02...
>>> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 09:01:31 -0800, Richard C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you know it this requirement will also extend to DVD-R and HD units?
>>>> I wish I could find a DVD-R with hard drive that has a built-in ATSC
>>>> receiver!
>>>
>>> You can plug 1 or more atsc tuners in a PC along with a dvd burner.
>>> Record
>>> them to HDD, burn them to dvd, whatever.
>>>
>> ======================
>> Thanks.
>>
>> I knew about that solution, but I like the units with
>> DVD-R/DVD-Ram/HDD for use in my HT room.
>>
>> I still pose my question if anyone knows the answer.
>
> LSI Logic Domino 8633 for one. But a PC would probably be cheaper now.
>
Thanks............
That appears to be only a chip.
Is there any unit that uses it yet?
Seems strange - it has been around for a year now and no units using it?
====================================
Richard C.
But it can record it in SD.
DVD quality!
Makes no sense............
Richard C.
I found this quote on a web site. It is supposed to be the wording of the
FCC rule:
"By 2007-03-01 all televisions regardless of screen size, and all interface
devices which include a tuner (VCR, DVD player/recorder, DVR) must include a
built-in ATSC DTV tuner."
Sounds like I should be able to get one in March, or shortly after.
R
===============================
R Sweeney
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 23:15:58 -0500, R Sweeney wrote:
>
>>
>> "Richard C." <post...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>
>>> Wish I could get a DVD-R/HDD unit with one now.
>>> There seems to be none.
>>
>> kinda makes sense since DVD-R isn't big enough to store HD
>
> Well, to be fair, it will store it, just not a lot. You can get about
> 1.25hr worth on a single layer dvd
you are talking cable HD or worse
at a FULL 19Mb/sec, it's only 32 minutes on a 4.7GB DVD
Wes Newell
Actally, I was talking about 720p, which is still HDTV. Still pretty much
useless though for HDTV.
R Sweeney
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message news:0%
>>> Well, to be fair, it will store it, just not a lot. You can get about
>>> 1.25hr worth on a single layer dvd
>>
>> you are talking cable HD or worse
>> at a FULL 19Mb/sec, it's only 32 minutes on a 4.7GB DVD
>
> Actally, I was talking about 720p, which is still HDTV. Still pretty much
> useless though for HDTV.
I am pretty sure that 720P and 1080i need the same ATSC bit rate for the
same quality.
G-squared
Last year Fox in LA was running about 8 MBit/sec for HD. This year they
bumped it up to 15 MBits. KCBS runs 17, KNBC runs 15. Grey's Anatomy
has been reruns so long I forget the KABC bit rate. These numbers were
from Video ReDo processing of MPEG files from ATI MMC exported as MPEG.
45 minutes of Law & Order or NCIS use 4.5 Gig
A DL disc could do 1.5 hrs at this rate
As for tuners being rare, the 3rd HDTV Wonder ahowed up today.
GG
R Sweeney
"G-squared" <stra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1168026022.6...@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I suspect that Fox's 8mb HD was really attractive... chunky style.
G-squared
> > Last year Fox in LA was running about 8 MBit/sec for HD. This year
they
> > bumped it up to 15 MBits. KCBS runs 17, KNBC runs 15. Grey's
Anatomy
> > has been reruns so long I forget the KABC bit rate. These numbers
were
> > from Video ReDo processing of MPEG files from ATI MMC exported as
MPEG.
> > 45 minutes of Law & Order or NCIS use 4.5 Gig
> >
> > A DL disc could do 1.5 hrs at this rate
> >
> > As for tuners being rare, the 3rd HDTV Wonder ahowed up today.
> >
> > GG
>
> I suspect that Fox's 8mb HD was really attractive... chunky style.
That might be true for sports. I'm not a fan so I only see it now and
then. On the 24 fps film shows like 24, House or Bones, the lower
data rate really wasn't noticeable. I have a few of those shows saved
in HD on DVD (data files for computers only) so I can go back to check.
I double checked some file sizes: KNBC 4.9 gig for 45 min, KCBS 5.5 gig
for 45 min. KTTV (Fox) and KABC similar to KNBC.
GG
R Sweeney
Have you ever switched between OTA ATSC HD and the cable "HD" version?
The overcompression is pretty apparent with the contrast.
Your numbers make sense, the 19mb number is max, as I recall, the average
data rate is more like 13-15 mb/sec which would yield 40 some minutes... but
not the hour and a half previously mentioned.
G-squared
> "G-squared" <stra...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1168043264.3...@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> >R Sweeney wrote:
> > >
> > > I suspect that Fox's 8mb HD was really attractive... chunky
style.
> >
> > That might be true for sports. I'm not a fan so I only see it now
and
> > then. On the 24 fps film shows like 24, House or Bones, the
lower
> > data rate really wasn't noticeable. I have a few of those shows
saved
> > in HD on DVD (data files for computers only) so I can go back to
check.
> >
> > I double checked some file sizes: KNBC 4.9 gig for 45 min, KCBS
5.5 gig
> > for 45 min. KTTV (Fox) and KABC similar to KNBC.
> >
> > GG
>
> Have you ever switched between OTA ATSC HD and the cable "HD"
version?
> The overcompression is pretty apparent with the contrast.
>
> Your numbers make sense, the 19mb number is max, as I recall, the
average
> data rate is more like 13-15 mb/sec which would yield 40 some
minutes... but
> not the hour and a half previously mentioned.
Can't switch as our HDTV is strictly OTA. The irony is - the Samsung
SIR-T165 can receive 8VSB, 16VSB, QAM64 and QAM256. When I brought home
the Tek spectrum analyzer to verify the antenna, for laughs I looked at
the analog cable to the old TV and found a whole lot of what looked to
be 6 MHz DTV channels but at a frequency the Samsung didn't find. As I
do all the HD recording OTA and lots of folks comment on the poorer
quality of the cable HD, I don't really want to bother with it. Why the
cable? the wife likes TCM and the kids want Nickelodeon. Other than
that, for us it's a waste of money.
GG
R Sweeney
Discovery HD is nice and there are pretty decent HD premium movies on that
you really need the HD-DVR to catch.
I wish that Comcast would pick up National Geographic HD.
mibbler@large
>R Sweeney wrote:
>> Have you ever switched between OTA ATSC HD and the cable "HD"
>>version?
>
>Can't switch as our HDTV is strictly OTA. The irony is - the Samsung
>SIR-T165 can receive 8VSB, 16VSB, QAM64 and QAM256.
Are you sure? I just looked at a downloaded copy of the manual, and
it says it just does ATSC and NTSC. It does tune up to cable channel
125. Some cable companies go up to 135 (and a few maybe higher; I
think they're defined up to 158). I've heard of companies that put
the locals above 125. They're unencrypted, as they should be, but
most receivers can't tune them.
> When I brought home
>the Tek spectrum analyzer to verify the antenna, for laughs I looked at
>the analog cable to the old TV and found a whole lot of what looked to
>be 6 MHz DTV channels but at a frequency the Samsung didn't find.
Most of them would be encrypted. Those that aren't would likely be
the locals and perhaps a few others (it varies by company and
location). A clear QAM receiver should lock to all of them, but of
course just show you the unencrypted ones.
> As I
>do all the HD recording OTA and lots of folks comment on the poorer
>quality of the cable HD, I don't really want to bother with it. Why the
>cable? the wife likes TCM and the kids want Nickelodeon. Other than
>that, for us it's a waste of money.
I agree that OTA is the best way to go where possible, although I do
have Basic cable (about $13/mo.) as a backup and I can get all of the
locals either way. I can switch back and forth between them and can't
see any difference. Probably a combination of a better-than-average
cable system and worse-than-average eyes. Also, my display can only
resolve 1280x720, so I'm losing the extra resolution of the 1920x1080
broadcasts anyway.
scott...@gmail.com
G-squared wrote:
> Wes Newell wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Dec 2006 09:06:03 -0800, scott21230 wrote:
> >
> > > Still no 20" TV's in the store with ATSC tunsers in them.
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/602-2272612-0371054?asin=B000FOV2EO&AFID=Yahoo&LNM=B000FOV2EO|Norcent_20%22_LCD_Television&ref=tgt_adv_XPYD0100
> >
>
> But Wes, he wants it for $129.
I went to Target yesterday and this one was not in the store. And as
to what price I'd pay, I haven't completely decided on if I want LCD or
CRT or even HD. I'd have to see them both in the stores to make a
comparison. I have my doubts as to if I really want HD or SD for a 20"
TV. Supposedly it doesn't make much of a difference at that screen
size, but I need to see it for myself.
G-squared
> "G-squared" <stra...@yahoo.com> wrote (in part):
>
> >R Sweeney wrote:
> >> Have you ever switched between OTA ATSC HD and the cable "HD"
> >>version?
> >
> >Can't switch as our HDTV is strictly OTA. The irony is - the
Samsung
> >SIR-T165 can receive 8VSB, 16VSB, QAM64 and QAM256.
>
> Are you sure? I just looked at a downloaded copy of the manual, and
> it says it just does ATSC and NTSC. It does tune up to cable
channel
> 125. Some cable companies go up to 135 (and a few maybe higher; I
> think they're defined up to 158). I've heard of companies that put
> the locals above 125. They're unencrypted, as they should be, but
> most receivers can't tune them.
>
> > When I brought home
> >the Tek spectrum analyzer to verify the antenna, for laughs I
looked at
> >the analog cable to the old TV and found a whole lot of what looked
to
> >be 6 MHz DTV channels but at a frequency the Samsung didn't find.
>
carriers on the cable but it seemed to be more than 15. Do you happen
to know if a QAM carrier would look the same as ATSC ? I suppose I'll
have to look it up but I suspect they look nearly identical. I need to
bring the Tek home again to log the carrier frequencies.
> Most of them would be encrypted. Those that aren't would likely be
> the locals and perhaps a few others (it varies by company and
> location). A clear QAM receiver should lock to all of them, but of
> course just show you the unencrypted ones.
>
> > As I
> >do all the HD recording OTA and lots of folks comment on the poorer
> >quality of the cable HD, I don't really want to bother with it. Why
the
> >cable? the wife likes TCM and the kids want Nickelodeon. Other than
> >that, for us it's a waste of money.
>
> I agree that OTA is the best way to go where possible, although I do
> have Basic cable (about $13/mo.) as a backup and I can get all of
the
> locals either way. I can switch back and forth between them and
can't
> see any difference. Probably a combination of a better-than-average
> cable system and worse-than-average eyes. Also, my display can only
> resolve 1280x720, so I'm losing the extra resolution of the
1920x1080
> broadcasts anyway.
Here is an excerpt from the SIR-T165 service manual on page 12
The BCM3510 is a digital receiver compatible with both
North American digital cable television and digital terrestrial
broadcast
television standards. It is capable of receiving
all standard-definition and high-definition digital television
formats (SDTV/HDTV).
The BCM3510 accepts an analog signal centered at the
standard television IF frequencies, amplifies and digitizes
this signal with an integrated programmable gain amplifier
and 10-bit A/D converter, demodulates and filters the signal with
a combined 64/256-QAM and 8/16-VSB demodulator,
adaptively filters the signal to remove multipath
propagation effects and NTSC co-channel interference,
and error corrects the resulting data with integrated trellis
and Reed-Solomon decoders supporting both the ATSC A/53
and ITU-T J.83 Annex A/B/C coding formats.
The final received data stream is delivered in either parallel
or serial MPEG-2 transport format. All gain, clock, and carrier,
acquisition and tracking loops are integrated on-chip
as are the necessary phase-locked loops, referenced to a
single external crystal.
Chip configuration, channel acquisition, and performance
monitoring functions are conducted by the on-chip acquisition processor
using Broadcom-provided software.
end excerpt.
Now it may be that Samsung did not implement software to actually use
the capabilities of the chip but the hardware appears capable of it.
GG
Del Mibbler
>Here is an excerpt from the SIR-T165 service manual on page 12
>
>The BCM3510 is a digital receiver compatible with both
>North American digital cable television and digital terrestrial
>broadcast
>television standards. It is capable of receiving
>all standard-definition and high-definition digital television
>formats (SDTV/HDTV).
>
>The BCM3510 accepts an analog signal centered at the
>standard television IF frequencies, amplifies and digitizes
>this signal with an integrated programmable gain amplifier
>and 10-bit A/D converter, demodulates and filters the signal with
>a combined 64/256-QAM and 8/16-VSB demodulator,
<snip>
>end excerpt.
>
>Now it may be that Samsung did not implement software to actually use
>the capabilities of the chip but the hardware appears capable of it.
That certainly sounds like it could do QAM. Perhaps another reader
who has that model and cable can verify if it does or doesn't decode
cable digital channels.
Del Mibbler
scott...@gmail.com
> course. That being said, we will either start seeing them at reasonable
> prices shortly before the deadline, or they will dispense with tuners
> all together.
It's shortly before the deadline and they aren't in the stores yet.
When asked, a Circult City employee at the store told me that the
tuner "doesn't matter since your just going to be able to plub it into
your calble". He was so dumb. He didn't understand the concept of
ATSC tuners, and didn't understand the concept of OTA broadcasting.
The only useful thing he said was that they were going to soon get rid
of everything that they could no longer sell.
Circuit City employee:
"Why would you want a tuner in a DVD recorder?"
If I was there by myself I would have called him a moron to his face.
Mike Ray
Big Box store employees, my son-in-law worked selling TVs at Sears
when he was in college(2005). He had to go to training and learn about
HDTVs so he could answer questions. I wonder if CC and BB require
training???
-mike
Philip
Electronics video section about DTV and all I could get out of him was
1080i versus 780p and local cable HD support. About 6 months later some
Humax and Samsung ATSC STB tuners came in. They sold out and are all
gone now. I bought one despite the fact that the salesman still had not
a clue what it was. He thought it was useless since it did not have a
DVD drive, Dish Network or TiVo marked on it.
scott...@gmail.com
Richard C.
news:1172077965.3...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Finally!
>
> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4157183
>
=======================
Now for one that has a HDD and no VCR!
I can hardly wait!
Wes Newell
I've been using one of those for over a year now. It's called a PC with
ATSC tuners in it.;-)
Richard C.
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:21:44 -0800, Richard C. wrote:
>
>> <scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1172077965.3...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>> Finally!
>>>
>>> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4157183
>>>
>> =======================
>> Now for one that has a HDD and no VCR!
>> I can hardly wait!
>
> I've been using one of those for over a year now. It's called a PC with
> ATSC tuners in it.;-)
>
So how do you display it on a 64" HD RPTV?
Do the cards have component out?
I have not found any that do what I want.
R
======================
Dave Oldridge
My ATI 9550 will output 1080i to a DVI port and they offer an adapter to
component.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
Wes Newell
> "Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
> news:TzaDh.2113$h8.1228@trnddc05...
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:21:44 -0800, Richard C. wrote:
>>
>>> <scott...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1172077965.3...@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Finally!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4157183
>>>>
>>> =======================
>>> Now for one that has a HDD and no VCR!
>>> I can hardly wait!
>>
>> I've been using one of those for over a year now. It's called a PC with
>> ATSC tuners in it.;-)
>>
> ======================
> So how do you display it on a 64" HD RPTV?
>
If I had one, I'd use whatever input it had. Component, DVI, HDVI.
> Do the cards have component out?
Some do. Some MB's come with built in video and component plugin adapters.
> I have not found any that do what I want.
>
Assuming you want component output to your HDTV.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131014
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814125041
scott...@gmail.com
tuner in it?
Richard C.
R
=================
"Wes Newell" <w.ne...@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
Wes Newell
> Anyone see a 20" TV (or other smaller sized) in the store with a ATSC
> tuner in it?
Personally, I haven't looked (in stores). Other have said they have. I've
found many available on-line. By the end of March, I'd think you could get
about any size you want in most stores. I've found them from 13 inches
upward.