S41E06 Spoilers and Comments (10/27/2021)

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Brian Smith

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Oct 27, 2021, 9:44:37 PM10/27/21
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Did Survivor jump the shark tonight?

Some quick points for now.

* Ricard and MP seem to have lost all trust in each other.

* Merge process started but the merge itself still hasn't happened.

* Rock draw determined two teams that would compete to determine who would win their way to the merge and get a feast. The losing team has to do an IC but everyone gets to vote. Two of the rocks were gray--the people who drew those rocks would not compete. Erika and Naseer drew the gray rocks. The winning got to determine their fates.

* Teams were very unbalanced. Xander ended up with four females: Heather, Tiff, Liana, and MP. The other tribe killed them on the physical part of the challenge and held on to win.

* The winning team had to decide if they wanted Erika or Naseer to join them with the unchosen one being sent to Exile Island (EI) (yes, it's back!) for two nights. They chose Naseer to join them.

* MP screwed up and mentioned Liana's advantage in front of Tiff. Now Tiff doesn't trust Liana.

* MP might have formed the original Cookout with DeShawn, Danny, and Liana. If you watched BB23 you'll sadly get the Cook,out reference.

* Jeff visited EI and gave Erika the power to change history. She can reverse the outcome of the "merge" challenge if she wants.

* No TC tonight--it's a two part episode. Jeff told us that upfront. Lots of breaking of the fourth wall tonight.

So much for strategy this season...

--
Brian

zeppo

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Oct 30, 2021, 11:54:56 PM10/30/21
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On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 6:44:37 PM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:
> Did Survivor jump the shark tonight?

Heh! Over the past 21 years, there have been many bad ideas that have been inserted into the game as new elements,
only to be discarded and never used again. I'll let the "hourglass twist" play itself out before passing judgment on whether
or not it should be banished to Ghost Island forever.

>
> * MP might have formed the original Cookout with DeShawn, Danny, and Liana. If you watched BB23 you'll sadly get the Cook,out reference.

I get the reference, but have significant doubts that these four players will be interested in forming and maintaining a strategic
alliance based on ethnicity alone. Instead, it is my opinion that the scene during which they appear to be talking about working
together was only included in the edit in order to provide a context in which to insert Deshawn, Liana, and Mafia Pastor's comments
concerning their feelings about the number of "people of colour" that Survivor had included in the S41 cast. The fact that they only
talked about this issue in confessional makes me think that they may have been asked leading questions by the on-site producer.
When we actually saw all four of them together, their individual comments appeared be selected from a much broader conversation
in which many things were discussed. However, the edit was designed to make the viewers think that they were witnessing the formation
an African American alliance.
>
> * Jeff visited EI and gave Erika the power to change history. She can reverse the outcome of the "merge" challenge if she wants.

Well, there is no doubt in my mind that she will smash the hour glass. If she had decided not to, all references to this game element
would have been left out of the final edit. Therefore E07 will begin with an immunity challenge involving Deshawn, Danny, Ricard, Syd,
Evvie, and Naseer. I expect that the challenge will involve endurance, probably with a focus on the players keeping their balance while
under stress. Historically, big muscular guys have done poorly in such competitions. For this reason, I think that Syd would have a good
chance of winning immunity if the challenge is of the type that I am expecting. She is a good athlete, has a wiry little body, and appears
to be the kind of person who has vast reserves of energy. However, with that said, I have a feeling that Naseer will end up being a tough
competitor in the individual challenges, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him be the last man standing.
Because Erika reversed the outcome of the E06 "merge" challenge, Xander, Liana, Tiffany, Mafia Pastor, the older woman who is always on the
"sit out bench", and Erika will retire to the "sanctuary" for their own feast, and will all have immunity at the S07 tribal council.

> So much for strategy this season...

The "hourglass twist" is certainly going to be hated by a large portion of the viewing audience as it will leave some core
members of the former Blue Tribe as huge targets after having worked so hard to win challenges that were supposed to keep
them away from tribal council. Many will see this twist as being blatantly unfair, and contrary to the spirit of the game. However,
I believe that another large segment of the viewership just wants to be entertained, and dislikes having to keep track of which players
have advantages and who is in which alliance. Before the season, Probst promised that S41 will be "fun". At the time, I thought he
meant "fun" for the players, but now it appears that he was talking about the viewing audience. Certainly, whoever is booted at the
end of E07 is going to be one very pissed jury member.


Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Oct 31, 2021, 11:55:00 AM10/31/21
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On 2021-10-31 03:54:55 +0000, zeppo said:

> Over the past 21 years, there have been many bad ideas that have been
> inserted into the game as new elements,
> only to be discarded and never used again.

I truly miss the Outcasts.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Oct 31, 2021, 11:57:03 AM10/31/21
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On 2021-10-31 03:54:55 +0000, zeppo said:

> The "hourglass twist" is certainly going to be hated by a large portion
> of the viewing audience as it will leave some core
> members of the former Blue Tribe as huge targets after having worked
> so hard to win challenges that were supposed to keep
> them away from tribal council.

Good God, welcome to life.

Did no one's mother tell anyone that life isn't fair? To be prepared
for anything, and to deal with it?

Or are we going to be subject, moving forward, to people crying about
how "it's not fair!"?

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Oct 31, 2021, 11:58:21 AM10/31/21
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On 2021-10-31 03:54:55 +0000, zeppo said:

> Certainly, whoever is booted at the
> end of E07 is going to be one very pissed jury member.

Let's twist the hell out of things and screw up the losers by
declaring, late, that the jury will be only 5 people.

Hell, let them think the jury will be 11 or whatever--and then have a
jury challenge that whittles it down to 5.

Brian Smith

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Oct 31, 2021, 4:34:18 PM10/31/21
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On Saturday, October 30, 2021 at 9:54:56 PM UTC-6, zeppo wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 6:44:37 PM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:
> > Did Survivor jump the shark tonight?
> Heh! Over the past 21 years, there have been many bad ideas that have been inserted into the game as new elements,
> only to be discarded and never used again. I'll let the "hourglass twist" play itself out before passing judgment on whether
> or not it should be banished to Ghost Island forever.

A lot of people are not fans of all of these crazy twists and multitude of advantages. Dalton tweeted the other day that this would be the perfect cast to do a replay season. I kinda agree because with just a few exceptions we have no idea how good these people are at the game.

> > * MP might have formed the original Cookout with DeShawn, Danny, and Liana. If you watched BB23 you'll sadly get the Cook,out reference.
> I get the reference, but have significant doubts that these four players will be interested in forming and maintaining a strategic
> alliance based on ethnicity alone. Instead, it is my opinion that the scene during which they appear to be talking about working
> together was only included in the edit in order to provide a context in which to insert Deshawn, Liana, and Mafia Pastor's comments
> concerning their feelings about the number of "people of colour" that Survivor had included in the S41 cast. The fact that they only
> talked about this issue in confessional makes me think that they may have been asked leading questions by the on-site producer.
> When we actually saw all four of them together, their individual comments appeared be selected from a much broader conversation
> in which many things were discussed. However, the edit was designed to make the viewers think that they were witnessing the formation
> an African American alliance.

Having live feeds helps a lot to know exactly what's going on.

MP made an interesting tweet last week that is worth looking at.

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/1453551814750744577

> > * Jeff visited EI and gave Erika the power to change history. She can reverse the outcome of the "merge" challenge if she wants.

> Well, there is no doubt in my mind that she will smash the hour glass. If she had decided not to, all references to this game element
> would have been left out of the final edit. Therefore E07 will begin with an immunity challenge involving Deshawn, Danny, Ricard, Syd,
> Evvie, and Naseer. I expect that the challenge will involve endurance, probably with a focus on the players keeping their balance while
> under stress. Historically, big muscular guys have done poorly in such competitions. For this reason, I think that Syd would have a good
> chance of winning immunity if the challenge is of the type that I am expecting. She is a good athlete, has a wiry little body, and appears
> to be the kind of person who has vast reserves of energy. However, with that said, I have a feeling that Naseer will end up being a tough
> competitor in the individual challenges, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him be the last man standing.
> Because Erika reversed the outcome of the E06 "merge" challenge, Xander, Liana, Tiffany, Mafia Pastor, the older woman who is always on the
> "sit out bench", and Erika will retire to the "sanctuary" for their own feast, and will all have immunity at the S07 tribal council.

Erika would be crazy not to smash the glass. She knows she's on the bottom and has little chance of surviving the next TC without this advantage.

I have no idea what the IC will be but it would be funny if Naseer ends up going after his somewhat cocky confessional from this episode.

> > So much for strategy this season...

> The "hourglass twist" is certainly going to be hated by a large portion of the viewing audience as it will leave some core
> members of the former Blue Tribe as huge targets after having worked so hard to win challenges that were supposed to keep
> them away from tribal council. Many will see this twist as being blatantly unfair, and contrary to the spirit of the game. However,
> I believe that another large segment of the viewership just wants to be entertained, and dislikes having to keep track of which players
> have advantages and who is in which alliance. Before the season, Probst promised that S41 will be "fun". At the time, I thought he
> meant "fun" for the players, but now it appears that he was talking about the viewing audience. Certainly, whoever is booted at the
> end of E07 is going to be one very pissed jury member.

I don't think viewers are finding this season fun to watch. Seasons with three tribes are hard enough to follow but this season has too many powers floating around and I doubt too many people understand them all. For example, if the Shot in the Dark is used successfully, what happens next? Who goes home? I have no idea. I'm not even sure if it lasts all season.

--
Brian

zeppo

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Oct 31, 2021, 7:42:04 PM10/31/21
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On Sunday, October 31, 2021 at 1:34:18 PM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:

> I don't think viewers are finding this season fun to watch. Seasons with three tribes are hard enough to follow but this season has too many powers floating around > and I doubt too many people understand them all.

Yes, viewers do need to pay attention if they want to keep up.

For example, if the Shot in the Dark is used successfully, what happens next? Who goes home? I have no idea. I'm not even sure if it lasts all season.

I'm assuming that if nobody else receives votes, Probst would proceed as he would after a tie (i.e. there would be a re-vote with the SITD player
having immunity).


Emanuel Berg

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Oct 31, 2021, 11:41:38 PM10/31/21
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Merge in 6th episode - ha, no comments. Or did I ...

--
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Emanuel Berg

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Oct 31, 2021, 11:45:22 PM10/31/21
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> Merge in 6th episode - ha, no comments. Or did I ...

OK, ha, got fooled there. Well, good! :)

Brian Smith

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Nov 1, 2021, 3:04:18 AM11/1/21
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I can see a situation where someone gets nine votes cast against them but because they successfully did the SITD they're safe and the person they voted for goes off to jury. Worst case scenario is that such a person ends up winning the game. Jeff: "And the winner of Survivor 41 is Erika!" Hopefully they saw how badly this is playing out in early editing and made major changes before they shot S42.

--
Brian

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Nov 1, 2021, 6:15:12 AM11/1/21
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On 2021-10-31 20:34:17 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> A lot of people are not fans of all of these crazy twists and multitude
> of advantages. Dalton tweeted the other day that this would be the
> perfect cast to do a replay season. I kinda agree because with just a
> few exceptions we have no idea how good these people are at the game.

We know exactly how good these people are at the game--the game that's
on the table.

It seems that you want "the game" to be something else.

Me, I want to see a jury challenge. Take those 11 people who think
they can get revenge on whomever for whatever reason, and surprise them
with a challenge at the end--first 5 to finish, win and get to be on
the jury. The rest go home.

Make it a hard one. Let's see who really wants to be on the jury.

The game is what Probst says the game is--not what you think it should
be. We'll see how well these people can play the game that Survivor
LLC gives them.



> Having live feeds helps a lot to know exactly what's going on.

That's not the show that Probst et al. want you to see.


> I don't think viewers are finding this season fun to watch.

I would agree, but not for the reasons you think.

zeppo

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Nov 1, 2021, 1:39:48 PM11/1/21
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On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 12:04:18 AM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:

> I can see a situation where someone gets nine votes cast against them but because they successfully did the SITD they're safe and the person they voted for goes off to jury. Worst case scenario is that such a person ends up winning the game. Jeff: "And the winner of Survivor 41 is Erika!" Hopefully they saw how badly this is playing out in early editing and made major changes before they shot S42.
>
I think your concern is valid. However, the nine players who vote for Erika in your hypothetical situation would
almost certainly split their votes in order to account for the possibility of a successful SITD play.

Brian Smith

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Nov 1, 2021, 5:31:27 PM11/1/21
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Good point but so far we've seen no vote splitting. The last two times MP's tribe went to to TC they didn't seem to worry too much about this. So far it's been a non factor according to the edit.

IIRC, Jeff said a player can only use the SITD one time. What he didn't say is whether or not the other players will be told if the power was used. It would be funny if someone bluffed their way out of trouble via that power after having unsuccessfully used it.

One last point about the SITD power. Do you think a power will pop up to nullify it? Sounds crazy but Jeff seems to love crazy now.

--
Brian

zeppo

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Nov 1, 2021, 8:22:03 PM11/1/21
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> > On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 12:04:18 AM UTC-7, Brian Smith wrote:
> >
> > > I can see a situation where someone gets nine votes cast against them but because they successfully did the SITD they're safe and the person they voted for goes off to jury. Worst case scenario is that such a person ends up winning the game. Jeff: "And the winner of Survivor 41 is Erika!"

I went back to E01 in order to hear Probst explain the rules governing the Shot in the Dark Die and realized that I had
forgotten the fundamental reason why players might be hesitant to use it. If somebody roles the die, successfully or not,
they won't be able to vote. Therefore, if Erika received nine votes and successfully used the SITD, Probst would almost
certainly treat the vote as a nine way tie, and proceed to the regular tie-breaking process with Erika being immune.
>
> IIRC, Jeff said a player can only use the SITD one time.

He didn't say that the power could only be used once, but the fact that each player received their own die implies that
once it is used, successfully or not, it is gone from the game. I would love to see a situation develop in which a player,
who has already played their own die, gets a replacement from a close alliance partner and plays it. I'm almost certain
that this wouldn't be allowed and, sadly, would be edited out of the episode. :-)

>What he didn't say is whether or not the other players will be told if the power was used.

Actually, he did. He said that he would reveal the use, and outcome, of the SITD just before reading the votes.

> One last point about the SITD power. Do you think a power will pop up to nullify it? Sounds crazy but Jeff seems to love crazy now.
>
Oh definitely! Anything is possible this season, the wackier the better.
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