What Did Ted Do? I missed it.
Kelly Livingston
I've only seen two episodes this year and I'm trying to catch up by reading
all your posts.
Thanks!
James
>
>Why does everyone not like Ted besides the fact that he pissed in the cave?
Ted does have fans around here, at times. They will probably defend him or say
he is unfairly maligned. I'll give you the reasons I dislike him:
Episodes 1-3: Ted becomes friendly with Ghandia. VERY friendly, in spite of
barely knowing her. They huddle together, her hand is near his crotch, they
even sleep together at night. One night, Ghandia thinks Ted was grinding
against her, and suddenly sees this as a strategic opportunity and as an
assault. Ted apologizes, which she pretends to accept, then omits his apology
when she spreads this story to the women in the camp.
Ted is understandably angered. Ted then tells everyone that he loves his wife
and newborn son 110%, and wouldn't hurt them. This isn't as easy to understand,
because he was certainly hurting him by spooning and flirting with a near-total
stranger in front of millions of viewers.
The tribe splits along gender lines, 3-3. Ted, along with great pals Brian and
Clay, decide to let the women do most or all of the work, because the women
bring them down in challenges and the men are so strong in the challenges. This
was said despite the fact that a) CG had lost nearly every challenge even with
all that great masculine strength, and b) Ted/Brian/Clay had happily voted out
John, one of their strongest men, and kept Ghandia, who singlehandedly caused
them to lose the first immunity challenge in spite of a huge lead in their
favor.
Ghandia was voted out.
Episode 5: Ted, in spite of being close to the men from very early on and in
spite of the men needing him as much as he needs them, makes an alliance with
Brian by doing what can kindly be described as begging and pleading. Ted then
waxes strategic over and over and over in the next 3 episodes about how
wonderful Brian is and don't he and Brian have the perfect alliance. This is
far more the editing team's fault than Ted's, but it's still annoying.
Ted and Brian take the boat out to go fishing. In spite of their being manly
men and saving their strength for manly duties by not cooking or cleaning, they
improperly tie the boat. The tides come in, and the next morning, the two of
them realize the boat is gone. THEY LOST THE BOAT.
Ted and Brian go back to camp and this news is basically shrugged off, because
Chuay Gahn avoids bringing any issue to the surface ever. That would involve
having actual conversations with each other. So now CG has to swim a mile or
more every day to get water form the water hole. A few days later, Helen says
she is going to have to go swim for water (with Brian). This is immunity
challenge day, and Ted is very upset. The two of them will be tired out for the
challenge. Helen reminds him that they have no idea how late they will be
getting back from the challenge, that this could be their last chance for
getting water that day, and that preventing dehydration is more important than
an immunity challenge. Ted does not understand this, and is bothered, even
though he was partially responsible for losing the boat and even though he
never offered to go swim for water. Finally, Helen and Brian swim for water,
but not until Ted got his two cents in.
Aside from all of this, there is a general sense of pompousness from Ted that
is baffling. Here is this man who has done nothing but trip over his own feet
from day 7, and all he can do is talk about he knows this and he knows that and
blah blah blah.
Ted isn't a bad person. I don't hate Ted. I'm sure Ted is a friendly guy in
real life. I just don't care for him or his bumbling in the game, and I want
him out as soon as possible.
Kelly Livingston
posts. I also like how other people here give you a hard time. It is kind of
funny from an outsider's perspective. I am new to this group and new to
watching Survivor.
"James" <tvfan...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20021110120240...@mb-ca.aol.com...
James
>
>Thanks James!!! I enjoy your Survivor commentary. I've read many of your
>posts. I also like how other people here give you a hard time. It is kind of
>funny from an outsider's perspective. I am new to this group and new to
>watching Survivor.
You picked an interesting season to start watching in. I'm glad the show can
still attract new fans.
As for being funny...well, I bring it on myself part of the time, so I guess it
could be seen as funny from an outsider's perspective.
Chris I
For an *unbiased* recap, it's best to go to the website.
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor5/
--
Chris I <so...@rogers.com>
Jabber3269
I have to answer from the opposite perspective, as someone who doesn't mind Ted
ALTHOUGH he pissed in the cave.
Early in the game, he was likable, did what needed to be done, got along with
everone. If that was the extent of it, I would be actively disliking him
BECAUSE he peed in the cave (which makes me sick.)
BUT- the whole Ghandia thing made me feel really bad for him. YES he did
something he shouldn't have done. Although I'm still not sure EXACTLY what it
was. Going on only what I saw, he let G fondle him and he fondled her back.
NOT COOL as he is a married man.
I'd have been much more ready to condemn him, and I'm not totally excusing him,
if NOT for G's "embellishing" and flat out ADMITTING "I left everything out but
the apology" when she reported the incident to the tribe.
From where I sat, it was clear that G and T had something happening and were
both at fault as two married people. The fact that he apologized and worked to
get everything in the open was to his credit, though it doesn't excuse him.
But hey, I'm not his wife. If he can work it out with her, well that's great.
But I just think it's one of the most vile things a person can do, to brand
someone else a molestor or rapist, and that's what G did. Whatever happened
between G and T was OBVOUSLY mutual. And I just can't stand the thought of
someone having to live the rest of their life being branded a rapist or
molester, because you can never shake that.
So I guess my answer is- if Ted had been on the show minus Ghandia, who knows
how I'd feel about him. But since G WAS on the show, I really think he was
branded unfairly with something that could affect the rest of his life, and
even though he wasn't totally innocent in the situation, I can't stand seeing
somebody unfairly branded as something they are not, and having to live with
that shadow forever.
Lynn
Nathan Sanders
> But I just think it's one of the most vile things a person can do, to brand
> someone else a molestor or rapist, and that's what G did. Whatever happened
> between G and T was OBVOUSLY mutual.
Obviously? Neither Ted nor Ghandia said it was mutual. If anything, it
was obviously one-sided. Ghandia said he did it, and he agreed, and
apologized for it. I got no indication that either of them believed it
was mutual (or even welcomed on Ghandia's part). Whatever the actual
incident was (grinding and/or nibbling and/or hair-stroking), both seem to
agree that it was Ted, and Ted alone, who was responsible for what
happened that night.
That said, Ghandia should have taken the apology and left the matter
alone, whether she believed his apology or not. Deal with the personal
issues after the game, not during, especially if you're facing a tied
situation.
And I believe that many people would agree that rubbing your crotch into
someone who doesn't want you to fits the definition of "molestation", so
a label of "molester" isn't entirely inaccurate.
Helen and Brian deserve their fair share of blame for escalating matters
by gossiping and spreading things that ended up not even being true!
"Nothing happened", indeed.
Nathan
======================================================================
san...@ling.ucsc.edu ***** Department of Linguistics
san...@alum.mit.edu *** University of California
http://ling.ucsc.edu/~sanders * Santa Cruz, California 95064
======================================================================
Jabber3269
>> someone else a molestor or rapist, and that's what G did. Whatever
>happened
>> between G and T was OBVOUSLY mutual.
>
>Obviously? Neither Ted nor Ghandia said it was mutual. If anything, it
>was obviously one-sided. Ghandia said he did it, and he agreed, and
>apologized for it. I got no indication that either of them believed it
>was mutual (or even welcomed on Ghandia's part). Whatever the actual
>incident was (grinding and/or nibbling and/or hair-stroking), both seem to
>agree that it was Ted, and Ted alone, who was responsible for what
>happened that night.
>
By mutual, I mean a couple of things:
1- they were all over each other, all the time. The incident itself, whatever
it actually consisted of, no I have no idea if it was mutual or not.But the
"game" was. I don't mean that G asked Ted to grind her then freaked out. He
seemed to believe they had a "thing goin on" and he didnt' get that idea on his
own.
2- He really COULD have been apologizing for grabbing her and "grinding her" in
his sleep- dunno, wasn't there. But it was a MUTUAL thing to be sleeping that
close to each other.
3- I think Ted agreed that he alone was responsible because she was freaking
out and he's a nice guy and felt bad that he had misread her signals.(and he
didn't want to get voted off.) Apologizing for thinking a woman might be
sexually interested in you just because she plants her hand on your crotch is
not the mark of a rapist/molester/abuser.
I may get accused of "blaming the victim" here but... to me it's this- they
had this flirty thing going on, he took it further than she wanted- if she
never says NO, how does he know he should stop?
Lynn
Nathan Sanders
> By mutual, I mean a couple of things:
>
> 1- they were all over each other, all the time.
Affection is different from sexual activity.
Ghandia didn't touch his crotch, or touch hers to him (that we saw, or
that either she or Ted claimed). Ted stepped over a (IMO) very clear line
from friendly affection to sexual behavior.
> seemed to believe they had a "thing goin on" and he didnt' get that idea on his
> own.
Actually, I his excuse was that in the grogginess of sleep, he thought
Ghandia was his wife. A very different excuse than believing that Ghandia
didn't mind upping the ante.
> 2- He really COULD have been apologizing for grabbing her and "grinding her" in
> his sleep- dunno, wasn't there. But it was a MUTUAL thing to be sleeping that
> close to each other.
My understanding is that lots of Survivors cuddle at night because of the
temperature. And for many many people, cuddling is NOT sex. Agreeing to
cuddle is not the same as agreeing to have an erection rubbed into your
back.
> 3- I think Ted agreed that he alone was responsible because she was freaking
> out and he's a nice guy and felt bad that he had misread her signals.(and he
If he misread her signals rather than mistook Ghandia for his wife, then
he's an intentional cheater rather than an accidental one. That kinda
makes things even worse.
> didn't want to get voted off.) Apologizing for thinking a woman might be
> sexually interested in you just because she plants her hand on your crotch is
> not the mark of a rapist/molester/abuser.
There is zero evidence that Ghandia put her hand on Ted's crotch, or did
anything else that indicated a desire to pass from platonic affection to
sexual activity. Indeed, Ted's apology to Ghandia supports that this was
an entirely one-sided issue, that he was solely at fault for the sexual
transition. Even in the public fight in front of the rest of Chuay Gahn,
he didn't mention anything about Ghandia leading him on.
> I may get accused of "blaming the victim" here but... to me it's this- they
Well, it is what you're doing. =) We have evidence that Ted was the sole
instigator of the sexual activity (he and Ghandia both agree on this), and
no evidence that Ghandia was an instigator. Constructing a scenario in
which Ghandia was leading Ted on, despite the evidence to the contrary, is
precisely "blaming the victim". Why place blame on Gandia when both she
and Ted agree that Ted is solely to blame?
> had this flirty thing going on, he took it further than she wanted- if she
> never says NO, how does he know he should stop?
He knows to stop because they're both married (which should be reason
enough, even if only one of them were married) and there are cameras
around them 24/7 so he can't hide what happens (which makes what he did
not only indefensible but also mind-numbingly stupid; if you're going to
cheat, don't get caught).
This is of course, assuming that what he did was a conscious choice on his
part. He said it wasn't (for obvious reasons), and used the grogginess
excuse in his apology to Ghandia.
At first, that was the end of the story, and all was right with the world.
Then Ghandia realized what you seem to believe --- Ted was probably just
saying what he needed to say to smooth over the situation, and in fact, he
knew what he was doing when he was grinding into her. *That* is what,
justifiably, sent Ghandia over the edge...not that he grinded into her,
but that he did it intentionally and lied about his reasons.
Helen and Brian's further involvement just made things worse, because it
made Ted out to be lying even more (the whole "nothing happened" fiasco in
Chuay Gahn's telephone game). I don't blame Ghandia at all for getting
upset, thinking that there is this guy who is sexually interested in her
and is lying about not only to her, but to other people on the tribe.
Discord
"Nathan Sanders" <san...@ling.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SUN.3.91.102111...@ling.ucsc.edu...
> On 12 Nov 2002, Jabber3269 wrote:
>
> > By mutual, I mean a couple of things:
> >
> > 1- they were all over each other, all the time.
>
> Affection is different from sexual activity.
>
> Ghandia didn't touch his crotch, or touch hers to him (that we saw, or
> that either she or Ted claimed). Ted stepped over a (IMO) very clear line
> from friendly affection to sexual behavior.
Next time your at the office or around some casual friends, try putting your
hand on the inside thigh of a member of the opposite sex. After you get
escorted off the premises for sexual harrassment, come back here and post
whether or not it was considered "friendly affection".
rick++
if you missed something.
Ted tried to pork Gandia. But she raised such an excessive stink,
the others kicked her off instead.
natch
I agree with everything you say and I can add to it. Ghandia made me
feel even more sorry for him because the way she completely gave him
the impression that all was squared away between them, it was
discussed and settled THEN she felt the need to go to the others
behind his back and give them a completely different take on it. yes
she has a right to change her mind but imagine how youd fell after
someone comes to you and you work it out to then find out what she did
after that.
Nathan Sanders
> Next time your at the office or around some casual friends, try putting your
> hand on the inside thigh of a member of the opposite sex. After you get
> escorted off the premises for sexual harrassment, come back here and post
> whether or not it was considered "friendly affection".
Good thing you said opposite sex, or I'd have to remind you that Tina did
exacly the same thing to Mad Dog that Ghandia did to Ted. Just louging
and chatting, and a hand goes on the thigh, in a comforting, friendly
way. I'm sure I could find examples of opposite sex cases from prior
Survivor seasons, but the Tina/Mad Dog one sticks out in my mind.
But consider the following court cases:
Case A: Defendant places hand on plaintiff's thigh. There is no rubbing
or squeezing, just resting. Plaintiff does not attempt to move away.
Case B: Defendant rubs genitalia into the back of plaintiff, while
stroking plaintiff's hair and nibbling on plaintiff's neck. Plaintiff
attempts to move away.
Which defendant is most likely to be found guilty, and which is going to
receive the harsher punishment?
Brad Templeton
Well, we'll probably never resolve what actually happened and what
everybody was thinking, but the one thing the viewer can take from
this is that, if Ted's on the Final 2, and Helen's on the Jury, this
will make Helen less likely to vote for Ted. Not a sure thing, she
could have a bigger reason to hate somebody else, somebody who betrayed
her. She may decide Brian is a big MCP or something.
I wonder of the story of Ted and Ghandia will ever make it to the SJ
folks. Certainly Ted won't bring it up, and if Brian is his buddy he
won't, but Helen or Jan might talk of it to Penny who is likely to be
on the Jury -- either before or after they are booted. Ken and Jake
might also be affected, and I may be stereotyping here, but I suspect
men are more likley to hear this as a distant past he-said she-said
incident, and women more likely to feel it at a deeper level. Ghandia's
out of the issue, presumably can't even talk to the jurors, and Ted
will want to keep it downplayed.
I am not sure there will be SJ in the final 2, unless Jake and Ken are
able to create a men's alliance with Brian and Ted. I don't see Clay in
it. This would cause Helen and Jan to hate the guys who betrayed
them even more though, so it doesn't seem like a wise course.
--
Top 10 myths about internet copyright explained
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
James
>
>I wonder of the story of Ted and Ghandia will ever make it to the SJ
>folks. Certainly Ted won't bring it up, and if Brian is his buddy he
>won't, but Helen or Jan might talk of it to Penny who is likely to be
>on the Jury -- either before or after they are booted. Ken and Jake
>might also be affected, and I may be stereotyping here, but I suspect
>men are more likley to hear this as a distant past he-said she-said
>incident, and women more likely to feel it at a deeper level. Ghandia's
>out of the issue, presumably can't even talk to the jurors, and Ted
>will want to keep it downplayed.
Helen will probably tell someone if she knows she is leaving the game soon, if
she senses that Brian/Ted are going to side with Jake and get rid of her
because she's too dangerous.
Or she could wait until the jury and try to make sure Ted doesn't get Penny or
Erin's votes. Ted would probably make a comment that would make the situation
even worse.
Of course that's presuming Ted gets to final 2. He gives off final 4 vibes.
Brad Templeton
James <tvfan...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>> b...@templetons.com (Brad Templeton) wrote:
>
>
>Helen will probably tell someone if she knows she is leaving the game soon, if
>she senses that Brian/Ted are going to side with Jake and get rid of her
>because she's too dangerous.
>
>Or she could wait until the jury and try to make sure Ted doesn't get Penny or
>Erin's votes. Ted would probably make a comment that would make the situation
>even worse.
>
>Of course that's presuming Ted gets to final 2. He gives off final 4 vibes.
While it does seem that many players are idiots when it comes to facing
the jury, not thinking in advance of questions and being ready for them,
Ted's a double fool if he isn't ready for this question if he's before
that Jury.
His best answer -- depending on what the other jurors know -- might be
a fairly bold claim.
"Ghandia tried a ploy to get rid of me, to sow dissent in our tribe so
that somebody else would be voted off because of her. Like many, we
snuggled up and once, while groggy, I touched her in an inappropriate
sexual manner, but stopped immediately when I woke up and gave her a
full apology. She later went among the tribe embellishing the story
and leaving out my apology for strategic reasons, to try to bring votes
down on me. It was a bold strategy, and even though I was the target
of it, I have to admire it, but in the end it didn't work, the rest of
the tribe decided she was a divisive member and voted her out"
Now Ted and the rest don't actually know that Ghandia was indeed playing
some strategy here, but all he has to do is plant some doubt that she
was bending the truth for strategic reasons, something they all can
understand, and that's all he needs to be rid of her curse.
Discord
"natch" <na...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1c4f9312.02111...@posting.google.com...
I am going to take the opposite stance here and say, no, she does not have
the right to change her mind. Honor and courtesy in a human society demand
that a person live up to their word, no matter how uncomfortable or
inconveniencing it may become. The only exception to that is when a person
gives someone their word based on a false pretense (i.e., if Ted had lied to
Ghandia, Ghandia accepted his apology, and then Ghandia found out about the
lie then she would be perfectly right to retract her acceptance); Ghandia
decided to change her mind simply to screw with Ted and gain her some more
attention, which in my opinion, is not an acceptable way to act. She should
have thought through her acceptance more carefully and meant it when she
gave it.
Denise
Ghandia, my logic is that if Ted had really done something wrong, he'd
have been kicked off the island. The rules on cbs.com say
"Several actions will result in immediate elimination from the contest
and expulsion from Thailand, as well as forfeiture of any prize."
"Break the law. Even though they are stranded on a remote Thai island,
the Survivors will still be held to U.S. law, as well as local law.
Any breach of those laws is against the contest rules. "
"Act up. Any misconduct is against the rules, including but not
limited to stealing or misappropriating food, harming other Survivors
or crew members, and acts of violence. "
Given that it was all captured on camera, I'm sure Ted would have been
ousted if he had truly been out of line. I don't know why the rest of
Chuay Guan didn't think of that.
Denise
(a long time lurker, finally inspired to add my two cents)
Nathan Sanders <san...@ling.ucsc.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.SUN.3.91.102111...@ling.ucsc.edu>...
Nathan Sanders
> "Act up. Any misconduct is against the rules, including but not
> limited to stealing or misappropriating food, harming other Survivors
> or crew members, and acts of violence. "
Robb wasn't ejected for choking Clay. Or for eating more than his fair
share of bananas.
I don't know how strictly these rules are adhered to. What constitutes
"harm"? "Misappropriating"?
> Given that it was all captured on camera,
It's not clear that that particular act was caught on film --- it happened
in the middle of the night, when the camera crew is probably at a minimum
(if it's even extant at all).
> I'm sure Ted would have been
> ousted if he had truly been out of line. I don't know why the rest of
> Chuay Guan didn't think of that.
Probably because (a) they aren't allowed to talk to the cameramen, so they
didn't know whether or not such film existed, and (b) they figured that if
choking someone doesn't count as a rules violation, rubbing your crotch
into someone doesn't count either.
Nathan
you gotta draw blood!
crownborn
Ghandia was into Ted but wanted to get certain assurances from Ted for
him to get total access. She probably blew him...and Brian.
As far as James earlier assessment of Ted stumbling over his feet
that's so much resentment over Ted's obvious better game. Most in this
thread can't seem to acknowledge that.
All that said I think Ted may go up tonite. His tribe definitely is
going to lose the IC.
James
>
>Ghandia was into Ted but wanted to get certain assurances from Ted for
>him to get total access. She probably blew him...and Brian.
>As far as James earlier assessment of Ted stumbling over his feet
>that's so much resentment over Ted's obvious better game. Most in this
>thread can't seem to acknowledge that.
Could you give me some example of Ted's "obvious better game"? What did I miss?
We barely know anything about Ted's game, aside from him having an alliance,
almost being voted off because of getting too close to Ghandia, and then losing
the boat with Brian and everyone being forced to swim for water as a result.
At least I didn't go around saying Ted blew various people.
crownborn
> Could you give me some example of Ted's "obvious better game"? What did I miss?
> We barely know anything about Ted's game, aside from him having an alliance,
> almost being voted off because of getting too close to Ghandia, and then losing
> the boat with Brian and everyone being forced to swim for water as a result.
>
> At least I didn't go around saying Ted blew various people.
Ted has been more than corny and sentimental at times but he's kept
his ego in check for the most part. He does a pretty good job of
diagnosing himself when he thinks his temper is about to get out of
control. Thats what I mean by better game. That with his modicum of
skills at the challenges have kept him around.
He knows that he is a big target and that he's going to have to push
some buttons that may really make him look like a bad guy.
Ghandia was a wannabe Gerri.