S41E11 Spoilers and Comments (12/1/2021)

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Brian Smith

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Dec 1, 2021, 7:30:21 PM12/1/21
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Tonight's episode is titled "Do or Die" which I believe is the name of the big new twist. If Redmond's info on this twist is correct expect a lot of negative reaction. This could turn out to be one of Jeff's stupidest ideas.

I watched a clip earlier today on the press site that I think is the start of the episode. Liana confronts Deshawn and Danny about the vote and they lie to her claiming the others turned on them and they had no choice. They also throw Ricard under the bus. Liana is pissed that they cannibalized one of their own. Meanwhile, Xander and the others can't believe how things have turned in their favor. They've gone from being on the bottom to being on the top.

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Brian

Brian Smith

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Dec 1, 2021, 9:55:33 PM12/1/21
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When they came in to do the IC Jeff told them about the Do or Die twist which was exactly as Redmond described except it was worse than a coin toss. The person who finished last in the IC wouild have to do this twist. If they survived they would be safe and there would be a vote to boot someone. If they "died" they would be immediately out of the game and there would be no vote at TC. You had the choice to sit out of the IC but you could still be voted out at tribal. They then each took two rocks: one gray, one red that represented sitting out and playing, respectively. When asked to reveal their choice, Heather and Liana decided to sit out of the IC. Erika was first out in the challenge followed by Ricard and Xander about a half second apart. Danny won immunity.

The black alliance wanted Ricard out and the others wanted Deshawn with Liana as the backup. Ricard was okay with that as his alliance had four people. He and Xander were concerned about Erika's shadiness leaving us with the impression that Ricard could be screwed over. Earlier in the episode we saw Xander tell them that he was willing to use his extra vote advantage so we knew that he was prepared to use it.

They spent at least 10 minutes of TV time on the black players discussing how the culture, etc. defines them. I'm not a fan of these moments b/c they often come across as being ridiculous. No Liana, you do not represent an entire race or all black women. No Deshawn, fans don't expect black players to work together. It's an individual game. Play to win so you can better your live and help your family out. If Danny wins he's not going to buy you a house. Maybe you'll get a watch (BB23 reference)!

The Do or Die twist involved three small boxes. One had a fire symbol in it, the other two had skull symbols. If Deshawn chose the box with the fire symbol he would still be in the game b/c fire represents life. Jeff then asked him if he wanted to open his box first or if he wanted Jeff to open one of the other two. He told Jeff to open one of his. Jeff revealed a skull. Then Jeff asked him if he wanted to trade boxes. Deshawn said no. Then Jeff revealed the other box had a skull and that meant Deshawn was safe.

Then they quickly voted. Liana was voted out 5-3--Xander played his extra vote.

Next week it looks like lots of scrambling.

--
Brian

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Dec 2, 2021, 5:36:54 AM12/2/21
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You forgot the delicious bit about Shan crying the whole time as she
sat on the jury bench.

"I suck bad, can't play game, I suck bad, can't play game..."

Questor

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Dec 7, 2021, 2:23:00 PM12/7/21
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On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 18:55:32 -0800 (PST), Brian Smith <dcg_...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>They spent at least 10 minutes of TV time on the black players discussing
>how the culture, etc. defines them. I'm not a fan of these moments b/c they
>often come across as being ridiculous. No Liana, you do not represent an
>entire race or all black women. No Deshawn, fans don't expect black players
>to work together.
>
>It's an individual game.

Sorry, that is incorrect.

It is possible for solo players to get far and even win, but it is very
difficult. If you try to play one group against the other, eventually you will
be seen as untrustworthy and that puts a target on your back. And even
"challenge monsters" eventually lose, and become prime candidates for
elimination because of the threat they pose.

No, Survivor is a game of alliances, of having the numbers. From the early
seasons we see that having the dominant group systematically vote off the other
players makes for a boring season overall, so the producers introduce all manner
of twists to shake things up. So while the alliances may be shifting and
short-lived, they are still the crux of the game. (I think the term "trust
clusters," from several seasons ago, is an apt description of the situation.)

And how do you form alliances? Through identity and shared experiences. And
how do you do that? By talking about them. So it seems only natural that we
have segments where the Black players talk about the issues they face. If you
listen with an open mind and try to put yourself in their shoes, you might learn
something, as opposed to dismissing them outright.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Dec 13, 2021, 10:11:43 PM12/13/21
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On 2021-12-07 19:25:31 +0000, Questor said:

> And how do you form alliances? Through identity and shared experiences. And
> how do you do that? By talking about them. So it seems only natural that we
> have segments where the Black players talk about the issues they face.

As long as you say the exact same thing about white players, fine.

But you don't, and you won't.

Your entire line is bullshit.

The Horny Goat

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Dec 14, 2021, 12:16:32 AM12/14/21
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Until`this season I don't recall ANY race-based discussion concerning
alliance building.

No question there was LOTS of such talk on BB Canada this past season
(as I've mentioned previously) and while BB Can has never had an
aboriginal contestant this year's went to F4 and was booted entirely
reasonably in my view) as they figured he'd surely win if he got to
final 2 - and that he'd be extremely dangerous in the F3 comp. This
decision of course had everything to do with the Final 2 and nothing
at all about alliances.

I'm pretty sure most of the regulars here know that strategy in
Survivor and BB are almost identical with respect to going from F4 ->
a vote on the final 2.

The one difference is at F3 BB does round 1: all 3 contestants, winner
goes to round 3, round 2: the two losers face off, round 3: the
winners of rounds 1 and 2 face off with the winner choosing who he/she
will take to final 2.

Brian Smith

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Dec 14, 2021, 3:29:08 AM12/14/21
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On Monday, December 13, 2021 at 10:16:32 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 22:11:40 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty
> <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
> >On 2021-12-07 19:25:31 +0000, Questor said:
> >
> >> And how do you form alliances? Through identity and shared experiences. And
> >> how do you do that? By talking about them. So it seems only natural that we
> >> have segments where the Black players talk about the issues they face.
> >
> >As long as you say the exact same thing about white players, fine.
> >
> >But you don't, and you won't.
> >
> >Your entire line is bullshit.
> Until`this season I don't recall ANY race-based discussion concerning
> alliance building.
>
> No question there was LOTS of such talk on BB Canada this past season
> (as I've mentioned previously) and while BB Can has never had an
> aboriginal contestant this year's went to F4 and was booted entirely
> reasonably in my view) as they figured he'd surely win if he got to
> final 2 - and that he'd be extremely dangerous in the F3 comp. This
> decision of course had everything to do with the Final 2 and nothing
> at all about alliances.

BBCAN1 had an aboriginal contestant. Her name was Suzanne. IIRC she did not make jury. POC have always been over represented on BBCAN. Now it's totally ridiculous.

--
Brian

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Dec 14, 2021, 12:45:02 PM12/14/21
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On 2021-12-14 05:16:27 +0000, The Horny Goat said:

> Until`this season I don't recall ANY race-based discussion concerning
> alliance building.

Isn't that funny?

and suddenly CBS is encouraging, and airing, race-based "us vs them" stuff.

Us vs them. That's the road to profit now, apparently.

The Horny Goat

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Dec 14, 2021, 3:31:28 PM12/14/21
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 00:29:07 -0800 (PST), Brian Smith
<dcg_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>BBCAN1 had an aboriginal contestant. Her name was Suzanne. IIRC she did not make jury. POC have always been over represented on BBCAN. Now it's totally ridiculous.

My apologies - while I watched season 1 I have no memory of her
whatsoever.

Both Survivor and BB (both USA and Canada) have now swung an
exaggerated amount in the other direction.

Again I say that with Survivor if there's a problem with how POCs are
handled on the show (not fully demonstrated in my opinion) it's not
with how black folks are CAST for Survivor but rather how they are
shown on screen once cast.

For example James Clement (voted off with two hidden immunity idols)
wasn't an idiot - he was overconfident and probably correctly believed
he had a lock on F3 or F4 >if< he survived one more round. He
knowingly took a chance and it backfired. To me that spells hubris
rather than idiocy.

(I for one was surprised the night he was booted and I'm sure I'm not
the only viewer who was. GIven the type of challenges usually done at
F4 and F3 I'd say in that case he would have stood an excellent chance
of reaching F2)

I have never heard post game comments from him suggesting he felt in
any way hard done by so I'm assuming he sees things the way I do.

Questor

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Dec 14, 2021, 10:16:06 PM12/14/21
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On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 22:11:40 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:

See my reply to Horny Goat in the "general thoughts" thread.

White players don't talk about "white culture" because they don't have to. It
is just assumed, because it is the overwhelming culture of the U.S.

Elmo P. Shagnasty

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Dec 17, 2021, 7:36:37 AM12/17/21
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Bullshit.

And then we have Shan who is out in the open about "team black all the
way". When you so narrowly identify yourself like that, especially in
such an outward fashion, you WILL fail at Survivor.

And at life.

You can sit in your little echo chamber of identity, or you can go out
and be part of humanity.

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