Star Trek 11 Movie Spoilers
Tim Bruening
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At the beginning, the USS Kelvin goes up against Nero's ship, and gets
creamed. During the conflict, the Kelvin's captain goes over to Nero's
ship for ceasefire talks, and is never seen again. George Kirk takes
over as captain as the fight resumes, and orders the ship evacuated. 12
minutes later, the Kelvin is destroyed. One of the people evacuated is
Kirk's wife, who gives birth DURING the evacuation! What in the world
was Kirk's very pregnant wife DOING on the Kelvin? Why wasn't she sent
to Earth for reason of safety when she was found to be pregnant?
Wouldn't George Kirk have wanted to protect his wife and future son from
the risks inherent in living on board a Starfleet ship? I had thought
that during this time period, Starfleet didn't allow families on board
starships.
Very weird sequence of events: Romulus is threatened by a supernova.
Old Spock seeks to save it by using his black hole machine to absorb the
star, but is too late. Romulus RIP. Nero blames Spock for failing to
save Romulus. Spock's machine causes both Nero and Spock to go back in
time over 100 years. Nero arrives just before James T Kirk's birth,
then has to wait for 25 years for Spock to arrive. Nero captures Spock
and his black hole machine, then forces Spock to watch as Nero sucks
Vulcan into a black hole!
Several Federation ships go to Vulcan to investigate "a lightening
storm" in space. The Enterprise arrives a little later to find Nero'
ship and the destroyed Federation ships. After a brief battle, Nero
invites Captain Pike over for peace talks, but instead interrogates
him. Young Spock takes over. Kirk questions his orders and is
expelled.
Old Spock is stranded on an icy moon or planet near Vulcan. Young Spock
strands Kirk on that same moon or planet for mutiny. Old Spock rescues
him and mind melds with him to download into Kirk's mind everything Old
Spock knows of the Nero affair. Scott and Kirk beam onto the Enterprise
as it travels at warp. Kirk takes over the Enterprise by proving Young
Spock to be emotionally compromised by the destruction of Vulcan and the
death of his mother Amanda. With Old Spock's help, the Enterprise
defeats Nero. Kirk gets a commendation. The two Spocks meet.
To my utter astonishment, the movie ends with the altered time line. I
was expecting Old Spock to go back in time to save Vulcan, but that did
not happen! The creators did not hit the reset button!
The two Spocks have over 100 years to figure out how to save Romulus and
thus remove Nero's motivation to destroy Vulcan. I propose that:
Old Spock and the Enterprise go back in time (by doing a warp 8
slingshot around the Vulcan sun) to several weeks before Nero destroys
Vulcan. The two Spocks should be able to convince the Vulcan government
that the danger exists. Vulcan would then summon a Federation armada to
destroy Nero, using the information the Spocks and Kirk have about
Nero. Then the Spocks and the other Vulcans can get to work saving
Romulus.
Alternative proposal: Go back in time an additional 25 years to stop
Nero from destroying the Kelvin.
Tim Bruening
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Young Spock seems to know that Vulcans and Romulans are related. Does
that mean that he knows that Romulans look like Vulcans?
dx...@albury.nospam.net.au
Vulcan HAS been destroy (in the new time line), what remains of the
Vulcan population plus Old Spock have set up a new Vulcan Society on
some planet that the Federation Gave them.
So working out how to "save" Romulus will not achieve anything.
> I propose that:
>
> Old Spock and the Enterprise go back in time (by doing a warp 8
> slingshot around the Vulcan sun) to several weeks before Nero destroys
> Vulcan. The two Spocks should be able to convince the Vulcan government
> that the danger exists. Vulcan would then summon a Federation armada to
> destroy Nero, using the information the Spocks and Kirk have about
> Nero. Then the Spocks and the other Vulcans can get to work saving
> Romulus.
>
> Alternative proposal: Go back in time an additional 25 years to stop
> Nero from destroying the Kelvin.
>
Why didn't Spock, in the original time line, just go back in time
twenty-five years or so to stop Nero being born??
What caused the two space craft to arrive twenty-five years apart, in
the first place?? The greater the Mass of the space craft, the further
it is flung back, maybe??
Daniel
dx...@albury.nospam.net.au
and, of course, I meant to add "... not achieve anything *for Vulcan*."
Daniel
selaboc
> The two Spocks have over 100 years to figure out how to save Romulus and
> thus remove Nero's motivation to destroy Vulcan. I propose that:
The timeline has been changed, saving Romulus will not have any affect
on saving Vulcan.
> Old Spock and the Enterprise go back in time (by doing a warp 8
> slingshot around the Vulcan sun) to several weeks before Nero destroys
> Vulcan. The two Spocks should be able to convince the Vulcan government
> that the danger exists. Vulcan would then summon a Federation armada to
> destroy Nero, using the information the Spocks and Kirk have about
> Nero. Then the Spocks and the other Vulcans can get to work saving
> Romulus.
Of all the "Spock should time travel to fix things solution" this is
the closest I've seen to being doable, and even that is a stretch. If
successful you're still left with the Enterprise and crew out of it's
timeline problem, but lets put that aside and address the other issue
this would bring up.
1) convinving the Vulcan's of anything has never been easy (See
Enterprise for how tough it is to convince Vulcans that Time Travel is
possible and that's with evidence right in thier faces).
2) one Federation armada has already failed to stop Nero over Vulcan.
Granted Nero had surprise on his side, but even when he didn't (IE the
Enterprise coming in fully shielded), he only needs two hits to take
out their top of the line ship. A Federation Armada is no guarentee of
success
3) It takes time to amass a federation armada, and the Feds aren't too
likely to send all their ships to vulcan, at any rate, as those ships
have other important duties elsewhere in the galaxy. Again success
isn't guarenteed
4) Saving Romulus, while a nice thing for the Feds to do, isn't
critical as far as this timeline is concerned. Either they stop Nero
and save Vulcan or they don't. Romulus doesn't factor into it.
> Alternative proposal: Go back in time an additional 25 years to stop
> Nero from destroying the Kelvin.
See the many other posts on this subject in this newsgroup
John Lovin
"Tim Bruening" <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:4A0BC343...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> Star Trek 11 Movie Spoilers:
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> Old Spock is stranded on an icy moon or planet near Vulcan.
The problem is that it apparently was a Vulcan moon because Spock could
clearly see Vulcan's destruction from there, but Kirk and Scottie were then
later, MUCH later (Kirk had to find Spock, they talked and made a plan, then
walked several kilometers to the Federation outpost, etc.), beamed to the
Enterprise just after it had escaped from Nero. Wouldn't a black hole the
consumed a planet also consume its moons? Or, once the planet was gone,
wouldn't the moon be sent drifting or something?
> To my utter astonishment, the movie ends with the altered time line. I
> was expecting Old Spock to go back in time to save Vulcan, but that did
> not happen! The creators did not hit the reset button!
I think the "altered time line" was the whole point. This way they don't
have to just remake old movies or episodes. We already know what happens.
It's a way they can tinker with canon (I don't see them totally changing it)
without having to worry that in every single movie we fans don't nit pick it
to death. ("Wasn't it a *round* pot that was phasered in "Undiscovered
Territory" to demonstrate that phasers couldn't be shot on board without
anyone noticing????, etc)
The new PTB don't *want* to reset the time line.
>
> The two Spocks have over 100 years to figure out how to save Romulus and
> thus remove Nero's motivation to destroy Vulcan. I propose that:
>
They would also have to weigh whether saving Romulus to go on waging war for
perpetuity is worth saving Vulcan. I suppose that in the future, they
thought it was, but once it has happened, would it still be worth it? Also,
with 100 years of future perspective, could Spock change Romulan society
enough that Romulans wouldn't be the bad guys in this timeline? Finally,
they ARE descended from a common ancestor, making the Romulans the nearest
thing the Vulcans (in the new timeline) have to relatives. Remember,
accoring to the OLD canon, at this point, the Federation doesn't even know
this!
John
Tim Bruening
"Dani...@teranews.com" wrote:
Saving the Romulans would save the vast majority of the remaining Vulcanoid
gene pool, so its a good idea from an evolutionary viewpoint.
Tim Bruening
Tim Bruening
selaboc wrote:
> On May 14, 3:07 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > The two Spocks have over 100 years to figure out how to save Romulus and
> > thus remove Nero's motivation to destroy Vulcan. I propose that:
>
> The timeline has been changed, saving Romulus will not have any affect
> on saving Vulcan.
>
> > Old Spock and the Enterprise go back in time (by doing a warp 8
> > slingshot around the Vulcan sun) to several weeks before Nero destroys
> > Vulcan. The two Spocks should be able to convince the Vulcan government
> > that the danger exists. Vulcan would then summon a Federation armada to
> > destroy Nero, using the information the Spocks and Kirk have about
> > Nero. Then the Spocks and the other Vulcans can get to work saving
> > Romulus.
>
> Of all the "Spock should time travel to fix things solution" this is
> the closest I've seen to being doable, and even that is a stretch. If
> successful you're still left with the Enterprise and crew out of it's
> timeline problem, but lets put that aside and address the other issue
> this would bring up.
In the Star Trek universe, I've seen several examples of timeline alterations
that were repaired, so why can't this most recent alteration be repaired?
> 1) convinving the Vulcan's of anything has never been easy (See
> Enterprise for how tough it is to convince Vulcans that Time Travel is
> possible and that's with evidence right in thier faces).
The two Spocks and their mind melding abilities ought to be convincing!
> 2) one Federation armada has already failed to stop Nero over Vulcan.
> Granted Nero had surprise on his side, but even when he didn't (IE the
> Enterprise coming in fully shielded), he only needs two hits to take
> out their top of the line ship. A Federation Armada is no guarentee of
> success
I was figuring on surprising Nero this time!
> 3) It takes time to amass a federation armada, and the Feds aren't too
> likely to send all their ships to vulcan, at any rate, as those ships
> have other important duties elsewhere in the galaxy. Again success
> isn't guarenteed
> 4) Saving Romulus, while a nice thing for the Feds to do, isn't
> critical as far as this timeline is concerned. Either they stop Nero
> and save Vulcan or they don't. Romulus doesn't factor into it.
>
> > Alternative proposal: Go back in time an additional 25 years to stop
> > Nero from destroying the Kelvin.
>
> See the many other posts on this subject in this newsgroup
I was thinking in terms of setting up a mine field of photon torpedoes at the
point where Nero would emerge from the black hole when he arrived in the
past. That might weaken his ship enough to make it possible to destroy it.
Tim Bruening
John Lovin wrote:
Vulcan's mass wasn't increased, merely compressed, so its moons would not be
affected.
Dale
> What caused the two space craft to arrive twenty-five years apart, in
> the first place?? The greater the Mass of the space craft, the further
> it is flung back, maybe??
>
> Daniel
Elder's Spock's ship was sucked into to the black hole before Nero's,
I'm also guessing that entered at different points ant those two
variables caused Nero's ship to travel farther back in time.
Dale
> I was thinking in terms of setting up a mine field of photon torpedoes at the
> point where Nero would emerge from the black hole when he arrived in the
> past. That might weaken his ship enough to make it possible to destroy it.
And when the Kelvin stumbled into it as it will because they won't
know about it. So not only have you killed Kirk's dad you've also
killed James T. Kirk
Brian Thorn
Yes, history changed when Nero attacked the Kelvin.
Brian
Brian Thorn
>Why didn't Spock, in the original time line, just go back in time
>twenty-five years or so to stop Nero being born??
He was intercepted by Nero before he could do anything, immediately
upon leaving the time warp.
>What caused the two space craft to arrive twenty-five years apart, in
>the first place?? The greater the Mass of the space craft, the further
>it is flung back, maybe??
Something along those lines. Spock's faster vessel may have been able
to leave the black hole/time warp before Nero's mining ship could.
Brian
Tim Bruening
Dale wrote:
Send the Kelvin a warning about Nero and about the mine field.
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
How did Nero's attack tell Young Spock that Romulans look like and are
related to Vulcans? After all, Nero doesn't look like any of the Romulans
I have seen during Classic, TNG, DS9, or Voyager episodes. I figure that
he's a Reman of Remus, Romulus' sister world. In Nemesis, Remans plotted
with Picard's clone to take over Romulus and then try to destroy the
Federation.
WhoMe
(in article <s3uq05pklou93hlrb...@4ax.com>):
> Brian Thorn <btho...@suddenlink.net> found these unused words:
> Did it re-assert when he atacked the Celsius?
>
Far 'n heights away it happened
selaboc
And where does he get a mindfields worth of proton torpedos? How do
you know the Narada doesn't already have defenses against such an
attack? or that such an attack would weaken the ship enough? and even
if it does weaken it, with what resources will Old Spock attack it
with? Look, I know you are desperate to find some way to restore the
old timeline, to "prove" it was "a weakness in the plot" or just
because you can't stand the idea of the old timeline being changed.
Either way, it just ain't happening. Mainly because the writers don't
want it to, but also because as the story was written, Spock is left
with out the needed resources and any attempts to rationalize a way
for him to accomplish the task you want result in very poor
storytelling efforts for no gain.
Taweret
Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
> Brian Thorn <btho...@suddenlink.net> found these unused words:
>
> Did it re-assert when he atacked the Celsius?
Yes but only to a certain degree.
Tim Bruening
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Plan for undoing Nero's destructive activities:
I: Old Spock and the other Vulcans work for as long as necessary to
reconstruct Spock's black hole maker, plus weapons technology advanced
enough to overcome Nero's technology.
II: Old Spock goes back in time (using the slingshot around a star at
warp 8 technique) to shortly before Nero arrives in the past (in 2233)
and ambushes him as he begins to emerge from the wormhole, using the
advanced weapons developed by the Vulcan colony. I believe there's a
good chance he could destroy Nero, thus either erasing Star Trek
Timeline 2 or creating a 3rd timeline in which James Kirk has his
father, Sarek has his wife, and the planet Vulcan is intact. This
timeline would be very similar to ST Timeline 1, and would be better
than Timeline 2.
Since several previous timeline alterations have been reversed, I see no
reason in principle why this one can't be reversed also.
Tim Bruening
Great moments: The new transporter effect.
James T Kirk's Mom giving birth to him as she is being evacuated from
the Kelvin, as his Dad George prepares to die by ramming the Kelvin into
Nero's ship.
James Kirk driving an antique car as a police air car chases him.
Vulcan children being tested in giant bowls.
Spock noting the the Vulcan bullies are preparing their 35th attempt to
get an emotional response out of him.
McCoy getting Kirk onto the Enterprise by giving him a vaccine that
makes him sick, then claiming his right to take his patient wherever he
pleases. But shouldn't it be against regulations to take a sick man
into a potentially dangerous situation? IMHO, space lightening storms
and an anomaly menacing Vulcan sound dangerous enough to preclude taking
a sick man along.
7 starships warping off to Vulcan like shots out of cannons, as the
Enterprise is delayed by Sulu's failure to release the parking brake.
Kirk's hands swelling up.
Kirk running like a maniac to the bridge to warn the senior staff about
danger to the Enterprise crew, as he is suffering from an allergic
reaction to the vaccine and is being chased by McCoy, who is trying to
treat Kirk on the run.
The Enterprise dropping out of warp near Vulcan, and being pelted by
debris.
Kirk, Sulu, and a red shirt jumping down to Nero's drill in order to
disable it.
Chekov trying to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they fall towards Vulcan. He
has trouble locking onto rapidly falling objects. Kirk and Sulu finally
materialize just inches about the transporter's floor and hit it hard.
Shouldn't they have hit the floor at over 100 mph, as they were falling
at over 100 mph?
Spock trying to rescue the Vulcan government. Sadly, his Mom falls to
her death just as the Enterprise is trying to beam her up. It lost the
lock as she started to fall.
Vulcan being swallowed by a black hole.
Uhuru hugging and kissing a distraught Spock.
Spock neck pinching Kirk as Kirk becomes violent during his argument
with Spock. Spock then orders Kirk expelled from the ship and marooned
on an icy planet.
A marooned Kirk complaining that the maroonment is a violation of
Starfleet regulations regarding prisoners.
Kirk being attacked by two monsters.
Kirk meeting Old Spock. Old Spock mind-melding with Kirk to show him
why Nero is on a rampage.
Scott beaming Kirk and himself onto the traveling at warp Enterprise
from a distance of several light years. Spock provides him with the
necessary "transwarp transport" equation, which Scott had developed in
the original timeline! If Scott Prime developed the means to transport
people onto faster than light ships at interstellar ranges, why weren't
such transports done routinely during "The Next Generation" and later
Star Trek series (which occurred after decades after Scott's career
ended)?
Scott materializing in a large water tube, and being carried along
through the water tubes.
Kirk goading Young Spock into attacking him, thus proving Young Spock to
be "emotionally compromised" and forcing him to step down. Kirk then
takes over and pursues Nero's ship.
A shocked Kirk seeing Uhuru and Spock hugging.
Kirk, and Spock beaming onto Nero's ship (near Earth) from orbit around
Saturn. Kirk rescue Captain Pike as Spock boards Old Spock's black hole
machine, which addresses Spock as "Ambassador Spock", recognizing his
voice.
Spock attacking Nero's ship. Why does part of the black hole machine
spin?
Spock crashing the black hole machine into Nero's ship as the Enterprise
arrives to attack it.
Scott beaming Kirk, Pike, and Spock from two different places onto a
single transporter pad.
The "Red Matter" in the black hole machine igniting, creating a black
hole in Nero's ship. RIP Nero!
The Enterprise nearly being sucked into the black hole, until Scott
detonates photon torpedoes between the Enterprise and the black hole.
Kirk receiving a medal and officially becoming captain of the
Enterprise, at age 25, the youngest captain ever!
The two Spocks meeting.
The Classic Trek theme music and Old Spock speaking the Classic Trek
slogan as the film ends.
Tim Bruening
"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote:
> Brian Thorn <btho...@suddenlink.net> found these unused words:
>
> Did it re-assert when he atacked the Celsius?
The movie said nothing about Nero attacking the Celsius.
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> Yes, history changed when Nero attacked the Kelvin.
>
>How did Nero's attack tell Young Spock that Romulans look like and are
>related to Vulcans? After all, Nero doesn't look like any of the Romulans
>I have seen during Classic, TNG, DS9, or Voyager episodes. I figure that
>he's a Reman of Remus, Romulus' sister world. In Nemesis, Remans plotted
>with Picard's clone to take over Romulus and then try to destroy the
>Federation.
The Kelvin crew didn't see Nero, they saw his henchman, who did have
pointed ears (Nero's ears are cropped.) Only Capt. Robau saw Nero.
The Narada may also have been transmitting Romulan IFF codes, they
weren't expecting to time-travel and had been in Romulan space when
they departed the 24th Century.
The Kelvin attack changed history, both the Romulan/Vulcan connection
was known earlier, and the existence of cloaking devices was known
earlier in this alternate universe (the Klingon ships decloak in the
Kobayashi Maru scenario.)
Brian
Led4Aces
Hardly noticed
>
> James T Kirk's Mom giving birth to him as she is being evacuated from
> the Kelvin, as his Dad George prepares to die by ramming the Kelvin into
> Nero's ship.
A nice dramatic moment.
>
> James Kirk driving an antique car as a police air car chases him.
Kinda dumb. OOOh he's such a rebel.
>
> Vulcan children being tested in giant bowls.
I liked that.
>
> Spock noting the the Vulcan bullies are preparing their 35th attempt to
> get an emotional response out of him.
Funny.
>
> McCoy getting Kirk onto the Enterprise by giving him a vaccine that
> makes him sick, then claiming his right to take his patient wherever he
> pleases. But shouldn't it be against regulations to take a sick man
> into a potentially dangerous situation? IMHO, space lightening storms
> and an anomaly menacing Vulcan sound dangerous enough to preclude taking
> a sick man along.
Silly but welled played by Urban.
>
> 7 starships warping off to Vulcan like shots out of cannons, as the
> Enterprise is delayed by Sulu's failure to release the parking brake.
Yeah but they sorta already did that joke in the one with the
Excelsior (I believe)
>
> Kirk's hands swelling up.
Comical.
>
> Kirk running like a maniac to the bridge to warn the senior staff about
> danger to the Enterprise crew, as he is suffering from an allergic
> reaction to the vaccine and is being chased by McCoy, who is trying to
> treat Kirk on the run.
A bit over the top Keystone copish...
>
> The Enterprise dropping out of warp near Vulcan, and being pelted by
> debris.
Cool.
>
> Kirk, Sulu, and a red shirt jumping down to Nero's drill in order to
> disable it.
Yeah it was a good scene.
>
> Chekov trying to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they fall towards Vulcan. He
> has trouble locking onto rapidly falling objects. Kirk and Sulu finally
> materialize just inches about the transporter's floor and hit it hard.
> Shouldn't they have hit the floor at over 100 mph, as they were falling
> at over 100 mph?
Gentlemen, I suggest you beam me aboard!
>
> Spock trying to rescue the Vulcan government. Sadly, his Mom falls to
> her death just as the Enterprise is trying to beam her up. It lost the
> lock as she started to fall.
Sadly for Winona... no sequel.
>
> Vulcan being swallowed by a black hole.
A very picky black hole. Didn't care much for Delta Vega.
>
> Uhuru hugging and kissing a distraught Spock.
Unsure... a little out of character but I like where it could go.
>
> Spock neck pinching Kirk as Kirk becomes violent during his argument
> with Spock. Spock then orders Kirk expelled from the ship and marooned
> on an icy planet.
A plot device. He never heard of the brig?
>
> A marooned Kirk complaining that the maroonment is a violation of
> Starfleet regulations regarding prisoners.
>
> Kirk being attacked by two monsters.
eh...been done better elsewhere.
>
> Kirk meeting Old Spock. Old Spock mind-melding with Kirk to show him
> why Nero is on a rampage.
Didnt care too much about Nero or his motivations.
>
> Scott beaming Kirk and himself onto the traveling at warp Enterprise
> from a distance of several light years. Spock provides him with the
> necessary "transwarp transport" equation, which Scott had developed in
> the original timeline! If Scott Prime developed the means to transport
> people onto faster than light ships at interstellar ranges, why weren't
> such transports done routinely during "The Next Generation" and later
> Star Trek series (which occurred after decades after Scott's career
> ended)?
>
> Scott materializing in a large water tube, and being carried along
> through the water tubes.
More Keystone stuff....very un- Scotty like.
>
> Kirk goading Young Spock into attacking him, thus proving Young Spock to
> be "emotionally compromised" and forcing him to step down. Kirk then
> takes over and pursues Nero's ship.
Shades of This Side of Paradise.
>
> A shocked Kirk seeing Uhuru and Spock hugging.
>
> Kirk, and Spock beaming onto Nero's ship (near Earth) from orbit around
> Saturn. Kirk rescue Captain Pike as Spock boards Old Spock's black hole
> machine, which addresses Spock as "Ambassador Spock", recognizing his
> voice.
>
> Spock attacking Nero's ship. Why does part of the black hole machine
> spin?
>
> Spock crashing the black hole machine into Nero's ship as the Enterprise
> arrives to attack it.
>
> Scott beaming Kirk, Pike, and Spock from two different places onto a
> single transporter pad.
>
> The "Red Matter" in the black hole machine igniting, creating a black
> hole in Nero's ship. RIP Nero!
>
> The Enterprise nearly being sucked into the black hole, until Scott
> detonates photon torpedoes between the Enterprise and the black hole.
>
> Kirk receiving a medal and officially becoming captain of the
> Enterprise, at age 25, the youngest captain ever!
Didnt care for the ending...anti-climatic.
>
> The two Spocks meeting.
His usual greeting/saying being somewhat 'self-serving'... lol
>
> The Classic Trek theme music and Old Spock speaking the Classic Trek
> slogan as the film ends.
Liked that.
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
The henchmen don't look like the Romulans (the ones who look very similar to
Vulcans) I have seen in TOS, TNG, DS9 Voyager episodes. I therefore figured
that they were a different species that happens to live in the Romulan Empire.
> The Narada may also have been transmitting Romulan IFF codes, they
> weren't expecting to time-travel and had been in Romulan space when
> they departed the 24th Century.
>
> The Kelvin attack changed history, both the Romulan/Vulcan connection
> was known earlier, and the existence of cloaking devices was known
> earlier in this alternate universe (the Klingon ships decloak in the
> Kobayashi Maru scenario.)
How did the the cover get blown off the existence of cloaking devices?
Wickeddoll
Sensors indicate you liked the film.
Natalie
--
"Wicked little doll, you have no soul"
(David Byrne, 1997)
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
The Narada destroyed 47 Klingon Warbirds. I speculate that this may lead to a
Federation Klingon alliance in the time frame of Classic Trek! This would
nullify several Classic Trek episodes.
What other changes will occur?
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>The henchmen don't look like the Romulans (the ones who look very similar to
>Vulcans) I have seen in TOS, TNG, DS9 Voyager episodes. I therefore figured
>that they were a different species that happens to live in the Romulan Empire.
That's artistic license, though, the same as Klingons looking
different in ST:TMP than they had in the series and yet Kirk didn't
say "Hey, they don't look like Klingons!" The new Romulans do look
more like Old Romulans than the TNG-era Romulans (they just like
tattoos, which might be a "miner" rite of passage in the 24th
Century.) And we don't know much about facial tattoos... all but the
Captain and Doctor wore those Roman helmets in "Balance of Terror".
>How did the the cover get blown off the existence of cloaking devices?
Undoubtedly, the Romulan attack on the Kelvin forced a new dialogue
between the Federation ("Oh my God, the Romulans are powerful, we'd
better find out their intentions!") and the Romulans (Who, us? We
don't know what you're talking about... See! This is our warbird,
nothing like the ship you're describing.")
Brian
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>The Narada destroyed 47 Klingon Warbirds. I speculate that this may lead to a
>Federation Klingon alliance in the time frame of Classic Trek! This would
>nullify several Classic Trek episodes.
>
>What other changes will occur?
A Romulan/Federation Peace Treaty seems more likely. The Klingons have
been badly hurt and won't be a threat again any time soon, and the
Federaton (through elder Spock) now has evidence to present the
Romulan Empire of their star going supernova in 129 years, not to
mention that a renegade Romulan wiped out an entire Federation world,
so the Romulans will have no choice but to ease tensions. The Romulans
will have to make nice and begin evacuations soon to save their people
(if Romulus has 6 billion people like Vulcan, it will take decades to
move everyone to safety with any reasonable number of ships.)
Brian
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
Surely the Romulans would not have shown us their cloaking device!
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
But I wouldn't mistake Nero and company for Vulcans, let alone Spock's father (the
same actor played both Sarek and the Romulan captain of "Balance of Terror").
> >How did the the cover get blown off the existence of cloaking devices?
>
> Undoubtedly, the Romulan attack on the Kelvin forced a new dialogue
> between the Federation ("Oh my God, the Romulans are powerful, we'd
> better find out their intentions!") and the Romulans (Who, us? We
> don't know what you're talking about... See! This is our warbird,
> nothing like the ship you're describing.")
Nero did say that he wasn't acting on behalf of the Romulan government.
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
So much for the excellent episode "Balance of Terror"!
Perhaps Ambassador Spock could get the ROMULANS to provide him with the resources
needed to stop Nero from destroying the Kelvin and Vulcan! In return, Spock would
save Romulus.
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> >> >> >Star Trek 11 Movie Spoilers:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
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>But I wouldn't mistake Nero and company for Vulcans
Why not? They were bald and had tattoos, not antenna or big goofy
forehead ridges.
>> >How did the the cover get blown off the existence of cloaking devices?
>>
>> Undoubtedly, the Romulan attack on the Kelvin forced a new dialogue
>> between the Federation ("Oh my God, the Romulans are powerful, we'd
>> better find out their intentions!") and the Romulans (Who, us? We
>> don't know what you're talking about... See! This is our warbird,
>> nothing like the ship you're describing.")
>
>Nero did say that he wasn't acting on behalf of the Romulan government.
Yeah, that will do the trick. The old "they weren't acting on behalf
of the government. So sorry about your planet getting wiped out and
all. And oh, if another group shows up at Earth in another
all-powerful ship? They're not acting on behalf of the government
either..." gambit. No, Romulus will be forced to enter talks with the
Federation because of Nero.
Brian
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>> >> >> >Star Trek 11 Movie Spoilers:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >11
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>> >> >> >XI
>Surely the Romulans would not have shown us their cloaking device!
The point is that Romulus's self-imposed isolation behind the Neutral
Zone ended 25 years earlier than in the original timeline. Once
they're out there interacting with the Federation, Klingons, Tholians
et. al., the revelation of the cloaking device would have gotten out.
Brian
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
None of this would be necessary. Just have Romulus began evacuations
decades earlier, then no one will be on Romulus when the star goes
nova, and Nero will not have reason to want to kill Spock.
Brian
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
Some posters have said that we're on a new timeline, and that saving Romulus on the NEW
timeline would not affect Vulcan's destruction.
Greg Goss
>>> Kirk, Sulu, and a red shirt jumping down to Nero's drill in order to
>>> disable it.
I like the image that ALL cadets have red shirts for formal attire.
Says much for their future.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Taweret
I'm already starting to resign myself that the new "trek" fomula may be
that each successive movie will be alternate realities, where nothing has to
tie in to a previous story.
And sadly there will be plenty of 12 year olds who don't know any better,
that will accept it, and fill theaters.
But a few of us will still only consider "TOS" (and perhaps the first few
movies) to be the real Star Trek.
And will continue to wear-out our TOS DVD's.
Brian Thorn
Not so great: The new phasers and torpedoes, which look a lot whimpier
than in any previous Trek, including TOS.
>James Kirk driving an antique car as a police air car chases him.
The car belonged to his stepfather, who Kirk hated. His mother was
also in Starfleet (which is why she was on the Kelvin) and was said to
be offworld.
>Vulcan children being tested in giant bowls.
I still don't know how one gets out of those bowls...
>McCoy getting Kirk onto the Enterprise by giving him a vaccine that
>makes him sick, then claiming his right to take his patient wherever he
>pleases. But shouldn't it be against regulations to take a sick man
>into a potentially dangerous situation?
Weak plot point No.1. If Kirk were that sick, send him to the nearest
hospital... tagging along on a flight to spacedock seems unduly risky.
>Kirk's hands swelling up.
And McCoy calling for Nurse Chapel in the same scene.
Also, Spock calls down for "Doctor Kelley" but McCoy says he's taken
over Sickbay now.
>The Enterprise dropping out of warp near Vulcan, and being pelted by
>debris.
Which happened much too quickly. The Kelvin 25 years earlier held out
against Nero longer than the other six ships did at Vulcan.
>Kirk, Sulu, and a red shirt jumping down to Nero's drill in order to
>disable it.
The red shirt was Chief Engineer Olsen, clearing the way for Scotty to
take over Engineering later.
>Chekov trying to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they fall towards Vulcan. He
>has trouble locking onto rapidly falling objects.
I think the main problem here was the shifting gravity from the black
hole, not that Kirk and Sulu were simply falling (they should have
been falling at a stable speed, having reached terminal velocity
fairly early in that loooooooong drop.)
>Kirk and Sulu finally
>materialize just inches about the transporter's floor and hit it hard.
>Shouldn't they have hit the floor at over 100 mph, as they were falling
>at over 100 mph?
Inertial compensators, otherwise people beaming up from a stationary
planet would materialize on the transporter stationary... with the
starship still moving 17,500 mph in orbit... SPLAT.
>Spock neck pinching Kirk as Kirk becomes violent during his argument
>with Spock. Spock then orders Kirk expelled from the ship and marooned
>on an icy planet.
Verrrrrrrry far-fetched.
>A marooned Kirk complaining that the maroonment is a violation of
>Starfleet regulations regarding prisoners.
He forgets the exact stardate in "Shore Leave" as well.
>Kirk being attacked by two monsters.
Great scene, but it needed much better justification. The banishment
was just plain silly.
>Kirk meeting Old Spock.
Even more far fetched. The writers claim it was meant to be "fate"
bringing these two together again. Whatever.
>Scott beaming Kirk and himself onto the traveling at warp Enterprise
>from a distance of several light years.
Ridiculous. I was hoping for a brief line that Spock had taken the
Enterprise back to the Vulcan area to search for survivors...
something... anything.
>Spock provides him with the
>necessary "transwarp transport" equation, which Scott had developed in
>the original timeline! If Scott Prime developed the means to transport
>people onto faster than light ships at interstellar ranges, why weren't
>such transports done routinely during "The Next Generation" and later
>Star Trek series (which occurred after decades after Scott's career
>ended)?
Notably in "Coming of Age" where Picard couldn't even beam a kid out
of a Shuttle from the other side of the same planetary system. But
there have been too many "we're out of transporter range" moments in
Trekdom for this to be anything other than a first class blunder.
>Scott materializing in a large water tube, and being carried along
>through the water tubes.
Silly.
>Kirk, and Spock beaming onto Nero's ship (near Earth) from orbit around
>Saturn.
They got Saturn wrong, though. Saturn's rings are edge-on from Titan.
Looked great, though.
>Spock attacking Nero's ship. Why does part of the black hole machine
>spin?
You mean Spock's ship? I think that's the next technological step
after Voyager's pivoting nacelles.
>The Enterprise nearly being sucked into the black hole, until Scott
>detonates photon torpedoes between the Enterprise and the black hole.
They weren't torpedoes, but warp cores. Evidently, starships have
multiple cores now.
>Kirk receiving a medal and officially becoming captain of the
>Enterprise, at age 25, the youngest captain ever!
No, not the youngest ever. Stephen Decatur commanded the schooner
Enterprise at age 24 and was promoted to Captain the next year.
Brian
Wickeddoll
>
>>>> Kirk, Sulu, and a red shirt jumping down to Nero's drill in order to
>>>> disable it.
>
> I like the image that ALL cadets have red shirts for formal attire.
> Says much for their future.
> --
> Tomorrow is today already.
> Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
The sacrifices they have to make.
Tim Bruening
"Sir F. A. Rien" wrote:
> Brian Thorn <btho...@suddenlink.net> found these unused words:
>
The Vulcans have hair and no tattoos, so I wouldn't mistake Nero for either
Vulcans or most of the Romulans I have seen.
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
This movie occurred BEFORE the time frame of TOS!
> >James Kirk driving an antique car as a police air car chases him.
>
> The car belonged to his stepfather, who Kirk hated. His mother was
> also in Starfleet (which is why she was on the Kelvin) and was said to
> be offworld.
I'm amazed that Kirk survived his stepfather's vengeance!
> >The Enterprise dropping out of warp near Vulcan, and being pelted by
> >debris.
>
> Which happened much too quickly. The Kelvin 25 years earlier held out
> against Nero longer than the other six ships did at Vulcan.
Nero had had 25 years to upgrade his weapons, and might not have bothered to
offer ceasefire talks as he did with the Kelvin.
> >Chekov trying to beam up Kirk and Sulu as they fall towards Vulcan. He
> >has trouble locking onto rapidly falling objects.
>
> I think the main problem here was the shifting gravity from the black
> hole, not that Kirk and Sulu were simply falling (they should have
> been falling at a stable speed, having reached terminal velocity
> fairly early in that loooooooong drop.)
Just before Kirk and Sulu started to fall, Chekov ordered them to remain
still, implying that the transporters can't easily lock onto a moving
person, regardless of the gravity.
> >A marooned Kirk complaining that the maroonment is a violation of
> >Starfleet regulations regarding prisoners.
>
> He forgets the exact stardate in "Shore Leave" as well.
What does "Shore Leave" have to do with this movie?
> >The Enterprise nearly being sucked into the black hole, until Scott
> >detonates photon torpedoes between the Enterprise and the black hole.
>
> They weren't torpedoes, but warp cores. Evidently, starships have
> multiple cores now.
Why didn't the ships in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager have multiple warp cores?
>
> >Kirk receiving a medal and officially becoming captain of the
> >Enterprise, at age 25, the youngest captain ever!
>
> No, not the youngest ever. Stephen Decatur commanded the schooner
> Enterprise at age 24 and was promoted to Captain the next year.
Okay, youngest Star Fleet captain ever!
Greg Goss
Someone said that he (and his crew) started shaving their heads and
applied the tattoos as part of forming a cult after the end of
Romulus.
WhoMe
(in article <77bgv6F...@mid.individual.net>):
>> The Vulcans have hair and no tattoos, so I wouldn't mistake Nero for either
>> Vulcans or most of the Romulans I have seen.
>
> Someone said that he (and his crew) started shaving their heads and
> applied the tattoos as part of forming a cult after the end of
> Romulus.
Ricardo Montalban's (Khan) sidekick in Fantasy Island was Tatoo of "da plane
da plane" fame.
Anim8rFSK
Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
That's from the comic book prequel.
--
MEGA-SHARK VS GIANT OCTOPUS!
A new contender for "worst film of all time"
Deborah Gibson is like a Tracy Lords without talent.
Tim Bruening
Does the alternate Star Trek timeline created by Nero have a Mirrorverse
2 in which a Mirror Nero went back in time after the destruction of
Mirror Romulus to destroy Mirror Vulcan as Mirror Spock watched?
Tim Bruening
Great moment: Sarek admitting to Spock that he had married Amanda
because he loved her.
madar...@gmail.com
> Anim8rFSK <ANIM8R...@cox.net> found these unused words:
>
>
>
> >In article <77bgv6F1gmdt...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Greg Goss <go...@gossg.org> wrote:
Somehow I doubt this film would be the hit it is if it had actually
been titled STAR TREK 11.
(At least not without George Clooney and Brad Pitt in the cast.)
Wickeddoll
Yeah. It's tough to get *human* men to say that, let alone Vulcans.
:-P
Brian Thorn
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
Not the Enterprise scenes, which are by definition the time frame of
TOS.
>Nero had had 25 years to upgrade his weapons, and might not have bothered to
>offer ceasefire talks as he did with the Kelvin.
Where? Kirk says the Narada was never seen again after the Kelvin
Incident.
>Just before Kirk and Sulu started to fall, Chekov ordered them to remain
>still, implying that the transporters can't easily lock onto a moving
>person, regardless of the gravity.
Well, yeah, but the black hole was already at work by then, too. Its
not clear that transporter users must be stationary under normal
conditions. And Kirk/Pike and Spock are beamed off moving ships at the
end of the movie (to an Enteprise that was moving as well.)
>> He forgets the exact stardate in "Shore Leave" as well.
>
>What does "Shore Leave" have to do with this movie?
Nothing, except Kirk does that "Stardate 432... 433... 43-
something..." moment in both.
>Why didn't the ships in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager have multiple warp cores?
Something new in this movie. Engineering on the whole looked totally
different from any other Engineering set in Trekdom.
>> No, not the youngest ever. Stephen Decatur commanded the schooner
>> Enterprise at age 24 and was promoted to Captain the next year.
>
>Okay, youngest Star Fleet captain ever!
Except maybe that cadet in Deep Space Nine's "Valiant".
Brian
Tim Bruening
Brian Thorn wrote:
That won't happen for well over 100 years!
Wickeddoll
> "Wickeddoll" found these unused words:
> If they'd stop trying to manipulate, then perhaps the 'response' would be
> voluntarily forthcoming and actually meant!
>
Agree that many women do that, but not all. My husband bird-dogged me from
the start, but I'm talking about *continuing* to say it *during* your
relationship. When I say "I love you" to hubby, it's only natural that he'd
reciprocate - but not cop out, like "Sam Wheat" in "Ghost": Ditto.
*rolling eyes*
Tim Bruening
11
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Very weird sequence of events: Romulus is threatened by a supernova.
Old Spock seeks to save it by using his black hole machine to absorb the
star, but is too late. Romulus RIP. Nero blames Spock for failing to
save Romulus. Spock's machine causes both Nero and Spock to go back in
time over 100 years. Nero arrives just before James T Kirk's birth,
then has to wait for 25 years for Spock to arrive. Nero captures Spock
and his black hole machine, then forces Spock to watch as Nero sucks
Vulcan into a black hole!
In the graphic of Vulcan collapsing, why didn't we see the debris of the
7 starships Nero had destroyed?
Several Federation ships go to Vulcan to investigate "a lightening
storm" in space. The Enterprise arrives a little later to find Nero'
ship and the destroyed Federation ships. After a brief battle, Nero
invites Captain Pike over for peace talks, but instead interrogates
him. Young Spock takes over. Kirk questions his orders and is
expelled.
Old Spock is stranded on an icy moon or planet near Vulcan. Young Spock
strands Kirk on that same moon or planet for mutiny. Old Spock rescues
him and mind melds with him to download into Kirk's mind everything Old
Spock knows of the Nero affair. Scott and Kirk beam onto the Enterprise
as it travels at warp. Kirk takes over the Enterprise by proving Young
Spock to be emotionally compromised by the destruction of Vulcan and the
death of his mother Amanda. With Old Spock's help, the Enterprise
defeats Nero. Kirk gets a commendation. The two Spocks meet.
To my utter astonishment, the movie ends with the altered time line. I
was expecting Old Spock to go back in time to save Vulcan, but that did
not happen! The creators did not hit the reset button!
I advocate that Old Spock go back in time (via the warp around a star
method) to ambush Nero (at the place he will be waiting for Old Spock
at), using Scotty's transwarp transporters (to beam people on board from
a distance) and/or dimensional shifts (see "The High Ground" from TNG)
to beam bombs on board right through the Narada's shields. I figure
that he might be able to get the Vulcan colonists and/or the Romulans to
provide him with the necessary resources to build a fleet advanced
enough to deal with Nero. 6 billion Vulcans are counting on him!
Kevin Reilly
> I was under the impression that Starfleet had known that Romulans were
> responsible. After all, when Kirk asked Uhura about the distress call from the
> Klingons after hearing about the space lightening storm, he asked her if
> Romulans were the attackers, implying that Starfleet had known that Romulans
> were the ones who had attacked the Kelvin.
Yep, I'll let you have that one. Many of the Kelvin crew had seen Nero's
second in command on the viewscreen before escaping, so knew they were
Romulan (assuming they knew what Romulans looked like, which the movie
implies elsewhere despite what happened in TOS).
To be honest I'd forgotten just how many of the Kelvin crew escaped that
incident, despite Pike ramming the point home to Kirk. My bad.
I still say the Kelvin incident could have been enough to change the
mission priorities for Starfleet, though. Certainly enough that I don't
expect to see many if any of the TOS episodic stories tackled in the new
movies.
--
Kev
__________________________________________________________________________
"Excellent memory, strong math aptitude, excellent memory, effective
management skills and very good at math." From a resume
Tim Bruening
Kevin Reilly wrote:
> On 23/05/2009 20:20, Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> > I was under the impression that Starfleet had known that Romulans were
> > responsible. After all, when Kirk asked Uhura about the distress call from the
> > Klingons after hearing about the space lightening storm, he asked her if
> > Romulans were the attackers, implying that Starfleet had known that Romulans
> > were the ones who had attacked the Kelvin.
>
> Yep, I'll let you have that one. Many of the Kelvin crew had seen Nero's
> second in command on the viewscreen before escaping, so knew they were
> Romulan (assuming they knew what Romulans looked like, which the movie
> implies elsewhere despite what happened in TOS).
>
> To be honest I'd forgotten just how many of the Kelvin crew escaped that
> incident, despite Pike ramming the point home to Kirk. My bad.
>
> I still say the Kelvin incident could have been enough to change the
> mission priorities for Starfleet, though. Certainly enough that I don't
> expect to see many if any of the TOS episodic stories tackled in the new
> movies.
I've seen a post speculating that the Romulans would have had to make nice to appease
Federation anger over the Kelvin incident, and would have shown the Federation its
warships to prove its innocence (Here is our warbird, not anything like the ship you
say attacked the Kelvin!).
Tim Bruening
Why does Kirk call a Starfleet Academy "Cupcake" just before the fight
begins?
Why is the Starship Enterprise being built on Earth's surface? I had
thought that such starships were too heavy to land on planets, so would
be built in outer space.
After hearing Kirk's warning of a possible attack at Vulcan, why does
Pike have the Enterprise drop out of warp close to Vulcan? Why not drop
out of warp well away from Vulcan so that the ship would not risk being
destroyed before it could get its bearings?
When the Enterprise first arrives, the graphics show lots of junk (from
Nero's destruction of the 7 starships) in orbit about Vulcan. Yet when
Vulcan collapses, the graphics show nothing except the Enterprise making
a hasty exit. What happened to all that debris from the battle?
When we first see Amanda in this movie, she is on her balcony gawking at
Nero's drill. Later, when Spock tries to rescue her and the Vulcan High
Council, they are all in a cave. Why weren't Amanda and the High
Council already in shuttles fleeing Vulcan (or at least on the surface
hoping that a Federation starship would arrive to beam them up!)?
Wouldn't Amanda have warned the High Council that Vulcan was in danger?
How did Spock know that both his parents would be in that cave with the
High Council?
Why was Amanda so close to the edge of that cliff?
Why is Nero bothering to ask Pike about Earth's defense codes? It looks
to me that Nero's ship is so powerful that he would have no trouble just
blasting his way through Earth's defenses!
As Nero headed for Earth, why wasn't Captain Spock saying to the fleet
at the Lorenzian(sp?) Cluster "A Romulan ship is headed for Earth to
attack it. Urgently request that the fleet meet us on our way to
Earth!"?
Tim Bruening
Is it possible that the Red Matter black holes in the Vulcan system and
near Earth might destabilize space-time? After all, they aren't normal
black holes.
Tim Bruening
Great moments: Kirk defeating the Kobayashi Maru scenario.
Kirk subsequently must attend a hearing to deal with his "cheating", and
is placed on academic suspension until the hearing is finished. Before
the hearing is finished, the SOS from Vulcan arrives, and all the senior
cadets (or were the lower classes included also?) are ordered onto
starships to investigate Vulcan's distress. Kirk is not ordered onto a
starship, because he's still on academic suspension! McCoy has to sneak
him onto the Enterprise. In the end, Kirk takes command of the
Enterprise and saves Earth.
He is therefore given a medal and placed in permanent command of the
Enterprise, relieving Pike. However, the charges against him regarding
his cheating on the Kobayashi Maru test hadn't been resolved, so
shouldn't Kirk still be on academic suspension and thus ineligible to be
captain of the Enterprise? I saw no indication that those charges had
been dismissed.
Zambi
> Star Trek 11 Movie Spoilers:
>
> 11
> 11
> 11
> 11
> 11
> 11
> 11
> 11
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> XI
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>
> creamed. During the conflict, the Kelvin's captain goes over to Nero's
> ship for ceasefire talks, and is never seen again. George Kirk takes
> over as captain as the fight resumes, and orders the ship evacuated. 12
> minutes later, the Kelvin is destroyed. One of the people evacuated is
> Kirk's wife, who gives birth DURING the evacuation! What in the world
> was Kirk's very pregnant wife DOING on the Kelvin? Why wasn't she sent
> to Earth for reason of safety when she was found to be pregnant?
> Wouldn't George Kirk have wanted to protect his wife and future son from
> the risks inherent in living on board a Starfleet ship? I had thought
> that during this time period, Starfleet didn't allow families on board
> starships.
>
> Very weird sequence of events: Romulus is threatened by a supernova.
> Old Spock seeks to save it by using his black hole machine to absorb the
> star, but is too late. Romulus RIP. Nero blames Spock for failing to
> save Romulus. Spock's machine causes both Nero and Spock to go back in
> time over 100 years. Nero arrives just before James T Kirk's birth,
> then has to wait for 25 years for Spock to arrive. Nero captures Spock
> and his black hole machine, then forces Spock to watch as Nero sucks
> Vulcan into a black hole!
>
> storm" in space. The Enterprise arrives a little later to find Nero'
> ship and the destroyed Federation ships. After a brief battle, Nero
> invites Captain Pike over for peace talks, but instead interrogates
> him. Young Spock takes over. Kirk questions his orders and is
> expelled.
>
> Old Spock is stranded on an icy moon or planet near Vulcan. Young Spock
> strands Kirk on that same moon or planet for mutiny. Old Spock rescues
> him and mind melds with him to download into Kirk's mind everything Old
> Spock knows of the Nero affair. Scott and Kirk beam onto the Enterprise
> as it travels at warp. Kirk takes over the Enterprise by proving Young
> Spock to be emotionally compromised by the destruction of Vulcan and the
> death of his mother Amanda. With Old Spock's help, the Enterprise
> defeats Nero. Kirk gets a commendation. The two Spocks meet.
>
> To my utter astonishment, the movie ends with the altered time line. I
> was expecting Old Spock to go back in time to save Vulcan, but that did
> not happen! The creators did not hit the reset button!
>
> thus remove Nero's motivation to destroy Vulcan. I propose that:
>
> Old Spock and the Enterprise go back in time (by doing a warp 8
> slingshot around the Vulcan sun) to several weeks before Nero destroys
> Vulcan. The two Spocks should be able to convince the Vulcan government
> that the danger exists. Vulcan would then summon a Federation armada to
> destroy Nero, using the information the Spocks and Kirk have about
> Nero. Then the Spocks and the other Vulcans can get to work saving
> Romulus.
>
> Alternative proposal: Go back in time an additional 25 years to stop
> Nero from destroying the Kelvin.
Interesting