Who likes Tom Paris
Virginia Philbrick
VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
Julianna Feigl
Why would I like that childish, immature jerk who's beginning to lose
his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
Julianna
--------
Tuvok:
The main reason to watch Voyager!
Colin Hayman
>
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:35:35 GMT, "Virginia Philbrick"
> <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote:
>
> >Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> >VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
> Why would I like that childish, immature jerk who's beginning to lose
> his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
Picture yourself starting a "girls who like Tuvok" thread, and getting a
reply like that. There's no point -- none at all.
Ronda
I most certainly like Tom Paris. He is a very complex character, who
has shown a lot of growth since the show began.
Ronda
--
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Sent via Deja.com
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Arlie
has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
Too bad it's all in his pants size.
-- Arlie
Boycott Fandom.com
http://www.fandomfightsback.com/news.html
Julianna Feigl
wrote:
The point is: I wouldn't blurt into a room like that assuming that
there might be lots of girls willing to help me drool over my favorite
object of sexual desire. I would maybe start by introducing myself and
see how the party goes and what people are talking about. After all,
there are enough threads where she could have discussed Tommy-boy.
Julianna Feigl
>>> He is a very complex character, who
>has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
>
>Too bad it's all in his pants size.
>
ROTFLOL!
Bozo the Evil Klown
>has shown a lot of growth since the show began.
Too bad that (like all the other characters) virtually all the "character
growth" was in "The Caretaker."
*****
Do superheroes with real superpowers discriminate against those who just like
going out at night in skin-tight spandex? Do Superman and Green Lantern make
snarky jokes about Batman behind his back?
Species 5236
>Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
>VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
I told you MTV was having a dangerous effect on people's minds.
-Species 5236
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei
Arlie
growth" was in "The Caretaker." <<
I'd go so far as to say many of the characters have actually regressed. Tom
among them. The Tom of "Caretaker" wasn't anywhere near as dopey as the Tom of
"Spirit Folk" and "Drive." And Harry. Harry acts younger now than he did in
"Caretaker," fer crissakes.
PSuther998
I am just sorry the poor newbie was not warned that likeing Tom Paris on this
list is concidered a crime. Is it a cultural difference and that is your vision
of most Americans or what.
I imagine this newbie will take your advice, like most people who actually like
Voyager, the characters other than Tuvok and any actor other than Russ and
find someplace to post where she won't get iviserated everytime she mentions
Tom Paris or Robbie McNeill.
Why do you feel it is necessary to
make such sweeping statements. Have any of us ever brought up the fact that
Tim's hairline used to be lower on his forehead, no. Robbie is big but he is
not fat or flabby. I am fat so I know fat when I see it and when I hug it .
You make fun of how he talks and eats. I am not Trolling and I am not
flaming. I am keeping my temper under control, but why can't you cut us some
slack. The post was for people who like Tom Paris. You don't so why did you
even read it? Just so you could insult the poster?
Arlie
No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think. <<
No, it was Mildred, not Maud. Sorry!
In any case, it wasn't Julianna.
Arlie
this
list is concidered a crime. <<
I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out" stuff.
My dig was mainly against the writers. None of the characters has gotten any
real character growth. Even Seven and the Doc, who seemed to for awhile, get
regressed whenever the chimps feel like it.
>> Have any of us ever brought up the fact that
Tim's hairline used to be lower on his forehead, no. <<
Actually, many people have. It led to a long thread on why they shave Tim's
forehead, to raise his hairline for his role as Tuvok. (Yes, they really do.)
>> You make fun of how he talks and eats. <<
No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think.
PSuther998
Julianna Feigl
wrote:
>>From: "Virginia Philbrick" mik...@ourtownusa.net
>
>>Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
>>VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
>I told you MTV was having a dangerous effect on people's minds.
>
ROTFLOL!!
Julianna Feigl
Klown) wrote:
>>I most certainly like Tom Paris. He is a very complex character, who
>>has shown a lot of growth since the show began.
>
>Too bad that (like all the other characters) virtually all the "character
>growth" was in "The Caretaker."
>
they did his entire character arc in the pilot and now there's
*nothing* left to do with him - although they keep trying...
Julianna Feigl
>>> Too bad that (like all the other characters) virtually all the "character
>growth" was in "The Caretaker." <<
>
>I'd go so far as to say many of the characters have actually regressed. Tom
>among them. The Tom of "Caretaker" wasn't anywhere near as dopey as the Tom of
>"Spirit Folk" and "Drive." And Harry. Harry acts younger now than he did in
>"Caretaker," fer crissakes.
>
unfortunately, yes.
Julianna Feigl
>>
>Why do you feel it is necessary to
>make such sweeping statements. Have any of us ever brought up the fact that
>Tim's hairline used to be lower on his forehead, no.
You can mention it as often as you want. Because he *shaves* it. In
his case it's done on purpose.
Julianna Feigl
>>> I am just sorry the poor newbie was not warned that likeing Tom Paris on
>this
>list is concidered a crime. <<
>
>I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out" stuff.
>
that was really stupid.
>My dig was mainly against the writers. None of the characters has gotten any
>real character growth. Even Seven and the Doc, who seemed to for awhile, get
>regressed whenever the chimps feel like it.
that, too.
>>> Have any of us ever brought up the fact that
>Tim's hairline used to be lower on his forehead, no. <<
>
>Actually, many people have. It led to a long thread on why they shave Tim's
>forehead, to raise his hairline for his role as Tuvok. (Yes, they really do.)
>
>>> You make fun of how he talks and eats. <<
>
>No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think.
>
There are actually lots of people here who don't particularly like RDM
or find him particularly attractive or talented or whatever. Some say
things much worse than anything I ever say - yet *I* am the only one
that gets constantly attacked for doing so. Really strange...
Julianna (shakes head)
Julianna Feigl
>>>>> You make fun of how he talks and eats. <<
>
>No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think. <<
>
>No, it was Mildred, not Maud. Sorry!
>
>In any case, it wasn't Julianna.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Julianna
Arlie
>this
>list is concidered a crime. <<
>
>I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out" stuff.
>
that was really stupid. <<
I don't know that I'd call it "really stupid," but the poster will probably
find her life easier if she learns to lurk a bit first, to get the feel of a
newsgroup, before posting.
>> There are actually lots of people here who don't particularly like RDM
or find him particularly attractive or talented or whatever. <<
There are a lot of people who dislike every single one of the Voyager cast, and
post about it here. It's the nature of Usenet -- the gloves are off. If you
can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Ronda
psuth...@aol.com (PSuther998) wrote:
I definitely agree with you!!! You have stated the case exactly as it
is.
And for the newbie who started the thread.....don't let a few unkind
remarks make you shy away from this group.
Ronda
arl...@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote:
> >> I am just sorry the poor newbie was not warned that likeing Tom
Paris on
> this
> list is concidered a crime. <<
>
> I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out"
stuff.
You are never too old to shout. You are never too old to have fun!!
Age is a thing of the mind. At 39, after 7 years off skates, I took up
skating again.......just an example....
Hurray for Tom Paris........
Ronda
I am wondering who those people are. Because of all the posters here,
you seem to have the most anamosity towards Tom Paris---Robert Ducan
McNeill. Your reply to the newbie's post is a prime example of what I
mean. I have yet to find anyone in this group who has replied to any
Tom Paris or Robert Ducan McNeill post with the levels of scorn and
ridicule you do.
Ronda
Arlie
you seem to have the most anamosity towards Tom Paris---Robert Ducan
McNeill. Your reply to the newbie's post is a prime example of what I
mean. I have yet to find anyone in this group who has replied to any
Tom Paris or Robert Ducan McNeill post with the levels of scorn and
ridicule you do. <<
Read Fiona's posts, or Merrick's.
Arlie
stuff.
You are never too old to shout. You are never too old to have fun!! <<
I didn't say I was too old to shout. I said I was too old for the "shout out"
stuff.
And I am. I'm not a teenager any more, and pretending like I am one would be
like Madonna pretending she's Britney Spears.
Ronda
arl...@aol.comNoSpam (Arlie) wrote:
> I am wondering who those people are. >> Because of all the posters
here,
> you seem to have the most anamosity towards Tom Paris---Robert Ducan
> McNeill. Your reply to the newbie's post is a prime example of what I
> mean. I have yet to find anyone in this group who has replied to any
> Tom Paris or Robert Ducan McNeill post with the levels of scorn and
> ridicule you do. <<
>
> Read Fiona's posts, or Merrick's.
>
> -- Arlie
Okay, next time I see a post from either of them, I will peruse it.
Ronda
--
Rocinante
Why, did he get a penis enlargement operation?
Shammie
>>>> He is a very complex character, who
>>has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
>>
>>Too bad it's all in his pants size.
>Why, did he get a penis enlargement operation?
>
ROFL!!
~
moo
Wickeddoll
"Virginia Philbrick" <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote in message
news:01c0744a$817982c0$LocalHost@computer...
> Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
when it comes to women, and I don't particularly find him attractive. I
think he's a funny character.
Natalie
Wickeddoll
"Arlie" <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message
news:20010106133934...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> >> He is a very complex character, who
> has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
>
> Too bad it's all in his pants size.
>
>
ROFLMAO
You are truly the most heinous being on the planet...
I love it!
Natalie
Wickeddoll
"Arlie" <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message
> >>> I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out"
> stuff.
>
> You are never too old to shout. You are never too old to have fun!! <<
>
> I didn't say I was too old to shout. I said I was too old for the "shout
out"
> stuff.
>
> And I am. I'm not a teenager any more, and pretending like I am one would
be
> like Madonna pretending she's Britney Spears.
>
>
> -- Arlie
>
There's a difference between them? Oh, ages; gotcha
Natalie
Michele
only because you attack those who do like him.
Michele
>
> Julianna Feigl wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:35:35 GMT, "Virginia Philbrick"
> > <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> > >VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
> >
> > his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
>
> Picture yourself starting a "girls who like Tuvok" thread, and getting a
> reply like that. There's no point -- none at all.
It was go like this " I am not as immature as she is but ok
here it is"
Why would I like a brillow head, big liped, ugly and weak
looking man.
But See I am more mature and nicer then that.
Michele
>
> "Michele" <bel...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:3A57BC79...@qwest.net...
>
> Natalie
Actually It is my opinion. LIke julianna doesn't find anyone
except tuvok/tim attractive, I don't find him appealing (
basically tuvok ). I think RDM is good looking and
attractive, but I find many men on tv and off attractive.
Wickeddoll
Oh lord, Michele... you just extended this thread by a couple hundred posts
Natalie
Wickeddoll
So you really meant that inflammatory 'brillo-head' comment?
Natalie
Michele
Not really, someone in the ng said brillow head. Just with
the hairline, and the pointy ears makes him odd looking. He
looks like he needs more hair. Sorry if you felt insulted by
the remark.
Michele
Wickeddoll
I actually wasn't, but I know you.. others might not take it that way
=D
Natalie
Michele
I think hair is a weird thing for me. ( note to guys,
unibrows are the most unattractive thing on men ) Sort of
like the many hairstyles of worf. I think he had at least 4,
and some made him look good and others not really. Now I
have seen nice pictures of tim without the tuvok hair and I
thought he looked good.
The same thing with RDM, some hair styles made him look like
he had less hair. Some didn't look so great, and some made
it look great. He ( RDM ) has said they put so much stuff in
his hair sometimes that it looks kind of strange to him.
Laura
Hmmm....the gauntlet has been thrown down, I see......
Laura, looking for the bomb shelter
Michele
I am just repeating what she saids. I am sorry but sometimes
she acts a like a child when people praise other people
other then tim/Tuvok.
Michele
Arlie
PSuther, take note. RDM is *not* the only one who gets dissed on this
newsgroup. The Parisites do get their licks in.
PSuther998
>Date: 1/6/01 10:17 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010106221710...@ng-cs1.aol.com>
>
>>> Why would I like a brillow head, big liped, ugly and weak looking man. <<
>
>PSuther, take note. RDM is *not* the only one who gets dissed on this
>newsgroup. The Parisites do get their licks in.
>
>
>
>-- Arlie
>
I don't like that either, I don't care if people diss the Characters but I hate
it when they diss the actors and make unfounded comments on their personal life
and actions. I don't like the Chakotay character but the comments made about
Beltran personally disgusted me. I couldn't stand Tuvok the first season
because he was so different from Spock but Tim Russ made him enjoyable to
watch. What people choose to say in private chat rooms and mail lists are one
thing. But in was is technically an open forum I think some of you go to far.
TC
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:35:35 GMT, "Virginia Philbrick"
> <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote:
>
> >Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> >VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
> Why would I like that childish, immature jerk who's beginning to lose
> his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
I think it is very ironic that you diss someone for their physical attibutes
and then have the gall to accuse other people of being shallow. What a
nasty little hypocrite you are.
TC
Michele
Why are people commenting on what I wrote but julianna wrote
an equally mean statements toward RDM. Actually what I wrote
was about tuvok not tim.
Arlie
an equally mean statements toward RDM. <<
Probably the racial element. That does tend to be more inflammatory than the
garden-variety insult.
But don't worry, Julianna's getting her share of "comments" too.
Bozo the Evil Klown
>remarks make you shy away from this group.
Quite right; otherwise you won't be happy on any other Internet group.
*****
Do superheroes with real superpowers discriminate against those who just like
going out at night in skin-tight spandex? Do Superman and Green Lantern make
snarky jokes about Batman behind his back?
Arlie
hate
it when they diss the actors and make unfounded comments on their personal life
and actions. I don't like the Chakotay character but the comments made about
Beltran personally disgusted me. <<
Well, I can understand why you might be uncomfortable, but it's all part of
being a celebrity. That's why they get paid the big bucks.
Michele
>
> >> Why are people commenting on what I wrote but julianna wrote
> an equally mean statements toward RDM. <<
>
> Probably the racial element.
I truly didn't mean for it to sound like it. Like I said I
have seen some good pictures of tim ( without the tuvok
disguise) and I thought he looked great. But when he looks
like tuvok, he looks odd. Besides how would one know, what
race I am.
OtherKate
> psuth...@aol.com (PSuther998) wrote:
> >>
> >Why do you feel it is necessary to
> >make such sweeping statements. Have any of us ever brought
> > up the fact that Tim's hairline used to be lower on his forehead, no.
>
> You can mention it as often as you want. Because he *shaves* it. In
> his case it's done on purpose.
So you're saying it's ok to ridicule someone with a receding hairline
when it's not on purpose?
The OtherKate
That Guy
news:jvqe5tshnciu5jv6b...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:39:36 GMT, Colin Hayman <colin...@home.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Julianna Feigl wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:35:35 GMT, "Virginia Philbrick"
> >> <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR
TREK
> >> >VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
> >>
> >> Why would I like that childish, immature jerk who's beginning to lose
> >> his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
> >
> >reply like that. There's no point -- none at all.
>
> there might be lots of girls willing to help me drool over my favorite
> object of sexual desire. I would maybe start by introducing myself and
> see how the party goes and what people are talking about. After all,
> there are enough threads where she could have discussed Tommy-boy.
That does not alter the fact that you were rude and crude.
Bitch.
That Guy
> Arlie wrote:
> >
> > >> Why are people commenting on what I wrote but julianna wrote
> > an equally mean statements toward RDM. <<
> >
> > Probably the racial element.
>
> I truly didn't mean for it to sound like it. Like I said I
> have seen some good pictures of tim ( without the tuvok
> disguise) and I thought he looked great. But when he looks
> like tuvok, he looks odd. Besides how would one know, what
> race I am.
I don't understand what difference it would make. Is it worse for say, a
white person to make a racist remark against black people, or is it worse
for a black person to make a racist remark against black people? Does the
race of the person making the racist remark change the meaning or quality of
the remark?
That Guy
"Arlie" <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message
> >> I don't like that either, I don't care if people diss the Characters
but I
> hate
> it when they diss the actors and make unfounded comments on their personal
life
> and actions. I don't like the Chakotay character but the comments made
about
> Beltran personally disgusted me. <<
>
> Well, I can understand why you might be uncomfortable, but it's all part
of
> being a celebrity. That's why they get paid the big bucks.
So if I understand what you're saying, it's ok to make rude comments and
insults in public about celebrities, even though it is not ok to do this to
non-celebrities? And are you saying that this is because they are famous,
or because they make more money than many of us?
The bottom line is, if you make a rude comment about someone, you're being
rude. We know the some of the press are going to do this, but knowing that
in advance and compensating the actors for it does not excuse the rude
behavior. Nor does it excuse those of us who are not reporters. If you
feel like making an offensive comment, and you go ahead and do it, that's
your right. But why try to fool yourself into thinking you're not being
rude? Why conjure up fictitious excuses?
Arlie
insults in public about celebrities, even though it is not ok to do this to
non-celebrities? And are you saying that this is because they are famous,
or because they make more money than many of us? <<
Because they're famous, and they chose that life. That's why it's okay to rake
Bill and Hillary Clinton over the coals, but not Chelsea. Chelsea did not have
a choice in the matter.
>> But why try to fool yourself into thinking you're not being
rude? <<
Who said anything about it not being rude?
Julianna Feigl
>>>>>> I am just sorry the poor newbie was not warned that likeing Tom Paris on
>>this
>>list is concidered a crime. <<
>>
>>I like Tom Paris. I'm just a little too old for this "shout out" stuff.
>>
>
>that was really stupid. <<
>
>I don't know that I'd call it "really stupid," but the poster will probably
>find her life easier if she learns to lurk a bit first, to get the feel of a
>newsgroup, before posting.
>
exactly. To scream like that at others was stupid.
>>> There are actually lots of people here who don't particularly like RDM
>or find him particularly attractive or talented or whatever. <<
>
>There are a lot of people who dislike every single one of the Voyager cast, and
>post about it here. It's the nature of Usenet -- the gloves are off. If you
>can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
>
That's right.
Julianna
Julianna Feigl
Yeah. I see. You want so much to hurt me by saying nasty things about
Tim that you don't shy away from insulting the entire black race and
calling them ugly...
Julianna Feigl
>
>Why are people commenting on what I wrote but julianna wrote
>an equally mean statements toward RDM.
I did not list several characteristics of white people and then use
the word "ugly" in connection with those...
> Actually what I wrote
>was about tuvok not tim.
Since you concentrated on his appearance there is no difference. Tuvok
looks like Tim.
Julianna Feigl
>>> Why would I like a brillow head, big liped, ugly and weak looking man. <<
>
>PSuther, take note. RDM is *not* the only one who gets dissed on this
>newsgroup. The Parisites do get their licks in.
Yep, and then they put on their "holier than thou"-face and look down
upon that pityful woman Julianna that disses a wonderful guy...
Julianna Feigl
>>> I don't like that either, I don't care if people diss the Characters but I
>hate
>it when they diss the actors and make unfounded comments on their personal life
>and actions. I don't like the Chakotay character but the comments made about
>Beltran personally disgusted me. <<
>
>Well, I can understand why you might be uncomfortable, but it's all part of
>being a celebrity. That's why they get paid the big bucks.
>
And if Beltran didn't behave like an arrogant, condescending,
unprofessional, whiney womanizer nobody would call him that.
Maud Beth Freifelder
> Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
Insignificant character and actor .Picardo has it all over RDM and Beltran
IMHO
Lt.Commander Maud "malqa" Freifelder
Chief Security Officer USS Triumph NCC-26228
"Triumph Against All Odds"
STARFLEET/Region 2
mb...@freenet.tlh.fl.us/aka tfn.net
Maud Beth Freifelder
>>> You make fun of how he talks and eats. <<
> No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think.
I had to re-read every post to get back to this one, it's not easy reading
usenet via TIN .
I have *NEVER* said anything negative about RDM's looks, how he eats ,etc.
I didn't make those posts,recheck what you've read please . I just don't
care for Paris/RDM . I feel that personality-wise ,Picardo has it all over
RDM. Paris and RDM , IMHO is just an ordinary guy/actor. I see nothing
special. That's not to say that he might not be a nice guy to his fellow
actors and fans. To me, he's insignificant. I just see nothing special.
That's not being nasty,that's being honest.
Laura
I'm sorry, too, but I do NOT want to be in the line of fire when she reads
that...
Michele
NO but I wasnt making a racist remark. At least in my eyes I
wasn't.
Michele
I didn't say that dear, you are twisting my words. I find
many great actors ( black and other races ) very good
looking, and if you had read my post you would have seen
that I said I had seen great pictures of tim. I just think
the tuvok look makes him odd looking.
Michele
I am staying out of it also.
seven.ofnine
Virginia Philbrick <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote in message
news:01c0744a$817982c0$LocalHost@computer...
> Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
> VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
I think he's sexy. I wish he worked in my office, he could take the conn
anytime he liked!
Seven
Michele
>
> >> I have *NEVER* said anything negative about RDM's looks, how he eats ,etc.
> I didn't make those posts,recheck what you've read please . <<
>
>
> It was Mildred who posted that thing on Robbie's tongue. Sorry, I just got the
> names confused....Mildred, Maud.
I thought you said something about the tongue also. Oh well,
that wil teach me to skip posts.
Michele
I have to agree
Michele
That or Worf
Arlie
I didn't make those posts,recheck what you've read please . <<
I did, and issued a correction immediately. Please read the next post. <g>
seven.ofnine
Arlie <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message
> >> He is a very complex character, who
> has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
>
> Too bad it's all in his pants size.
Well, that's a good area for growth, isn't it?
Seven
Julianna Feigl
Nope. You mentioned elements of Tim's looks that are characteristics
of the black race: the hair, the lips. And then you used the word
"ugly" in connection with that description.
> I find
>many great actors ( black and other races ) very good
>looking, and if you had read my post you would have seen
>that I said I had seen great pictures of tim.
That was a different post, my dear :-)
>I just think
>the tuvok look makes him odd looking.
He doesn't look that much different, just that he is not allowed to
smile while wearing the makeup.
Julianna Feigl
<mb...@fn3.freenet.tlh.fl.us> wrote:
>Arlie <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote:
>
>>>> You make fun of how he talks and eats. <<
>
>> No, she doesn't. That was someone else. Maud, I think.
>
>I had to re-read every post to get back to this one, it's not easy reading
>usenet via TIN .
>I have *NEVER* said anything negative about RDM's looks, how he eats ,etc.
>I didn't make those posts,recheck what you've read please .
No,that was Mildred. Arlie got the two of you mixed up because the
names are so similar. Both start with an M and end with a d :-)
> I just don't
>care for Paris/RDM . I feel that personality-wise ,Picardo has it all over
>RDM.
Of course. Picardo, Russ and Phillips and even Wang have 100 times
more personality than RDM.
> Paris and RDM , IMHO is just an ordinary guy/actor. I see nothing
>special. That's not to say that he might not be a nice guy to his fellow
>actors and fans.
with a tendency to make thoughtless comments...
>To me, he's insignificant. I just see nothing special.
>That's not being nasty,that's being honest.
Julianna
Arlie
All I said on that subject was that I hadn't noticed Robbie's tongue. Opening
myself up for "Threshold" jokes, of course.
Wickeddoll
Michele, Julianna is correct when she says the 'brillo-head' thing is an
insult to all blacks. It's an old racial slur, but I don't think you
realized that. Just a caution.
Natalie
Michele
Speaking of that scene, I don't think it looked that bad as
you guys say it was. I barely noticed the tongue scene.
Unless they took something out in the repeat.
I actually liked the episode, ok they could have left the
tongue scene out. I thought it was a good Tom episode and I
saw chemistry between him and b'elanna. I think that is when
she started to like him more then just a friend.
Michele
Michele
No I didn't realize it. I did realize it later. It wasn't
meant that way either. I should have wrote helmet head ( the
hairstyle does look like a helmet kind of thing ).
Juli17
In the interest of conserving space I won't reference any specific comments in
this thread, I'll just comment on several points.
1. Virginia's original post. Since she sent a shout out to "all kids" I'm
assuming that Virginia is probably a kid herself. It might be nice if she were
cut a little slack instead of being called things like "stupid."
OTOH, maybe it's best to chase her away from here right away. This is not a
nice place as Bozo, Arlie, and several others have pointed out. Maybe it would
be better if Virginia came back when she is a little older and better able to
defend herself on the Usenet.
2. It's interesting that a post about who likes Tom Paris so quickly
degenerated into a thread about who doesn't like RDM. On both of these
issues...
Virginia, if you're still lurking out there, I do like Tom Paris. I've liked
him from the beginning as I've liked all the characters. It was the characters
who drew me so strongly to Voyager in the first place.
On a critical note, I do not always like how Tom Paris is written, but again
that is true for all the characters. It is my personal opinion that most of
them suffered under Braga's tenure. In Braga's vision of the characters Harry
remained immature, Tom became more of a frat boy than he ever was before, Tuvok
became a periodically incompetent security officer and the butt of pranks more
often than the mentor to many of the younger crew that was originally his role,
B'Elanna lost much of her engineering genius to Seven, Janeway became ever more
erratic, etc. The only character who emerged from Braga's tenure with
considerable character development was Seven, the character he created. She
was his primary interest and focus, and everyone else was secondary. It
showed, sometimes painfully so. I have seen the characters being positively
portrayed more often this season (and more equitably as far as screentime in
most cases) but the damage was done.
Does this poor writing and lack of solid development mean that I dislike the
characters now? No. If I didn't like them anymore I wouldn't be watching the
show. Instead I still see in them all the traits I saw from the beginning, and
I still see them as the same people, the same ones I rooted for and considered
strong, decent characters. I still see Tuvok as a mentor to Harry and Seven, a
friend to Janeway, and a generally competent security officer, because we have
seen glimpses of that in him, even in the midst of too much stuff that doesn't
fall completely in line with his character, like falling asleep on the bridge.
Those kind of scenes can be intepreted two ways, for or against the character.
The interpretation often depends on one's predisposed like or dislike of the
character. Most fans incorporate either the good or bad or a combination of
both into their already perceived view of the characters (by validating the
actions that support that view and ignoring or downplaying those that don't).
It's particularly easy to do so with Voyager, given the very inconsistent
characterizations. Thus if you don't like *any* character, you can interpret
them solely through the negative characterizations-- Harry is permanently
immature, Tuvok is a weak Vulcan, Tom is a selfish jerk, Janeway is an erratic
captain, etc. OTOH, if you're a fan of a certain character (or all of them, as
I am) you can interpret them more through their positive actions-- we have seen
Harry act maturely and like a leader, we have seen Tuvok's mental strength on
display, we have seen Tom put his life on the line for his friends, we have
seen Janeway as a solid core of strength for her crew. My own opinion is that
while I don't discount the faults of the characters (they'd be boring if the
were completely perfect, a common complaint against the TNG crew), I do see the
positive attributes that we've been shown in all the characters as more
definitive of their characters than the negative attributes.
Okay, Tom in particular. I saw Tom from the beginning as a man with an
unsavory past, an irreverent attitude, and a desire to make good. I saw him as
someone who'd suffered though a hell of his own making, but one who was willing
to admit his mistakes (Caldik Prime) and who was at heart a decent man. I saw
someone who was more than willing to sacrifice himself for his friends and
crewmates, and who made himself as intergral a part of the crew as anyone. I
don't gloss over his faults. He can be insensitive and self-involved at times,
he can push it with the joking attitude, but I also see that he has been there
for the crew and for his friends when it really counts (and in the case of
B'Elanna when she'll actually let him--or anyone--be there for her). I don't
see some perfect person or character in Tom, but like Julianna does with Tuvok
and Arlie with Harry, I accept his faults (and the at times terrible writing
that focuses on the negative of the characters more than the positive) and I
like the character anyway, for those positives I do see very clearly no matter
how much the writers underplay them.
This is getting long ;-)
I'll continue on the rest of the issues in a second post...
Julie
Michele
I second what Julie said.
Juli17
Now, about RDM. My personal opinion is that he's a nice guy. I think that
about all the Voyager cast, having met them (except Kate). He's nice enough
looking also, though not exactly my type. But then I don't judge people's
character on their looks. It doesn't matter to me if someone has a receding
hairline or has put on a little weight. That to me is not a reason to dislike
someone or put them down. It's very common to do it here, and as Arlie says,
he's an actor so he's fair game. Whether you want to take advantage of that
and make negative comments about how a person looks, the only thing that
reflects is your own values. That's my opinion anyway, so I don't do it. That
doesn't mean I don't think some men are more physically attractive than others,
but I won't use anyone's looks against them, and I certainly think it has
nothing to do with the person he/she is inside. As far as I'm concerned
judging someone else on physical appearance is a shallow thing to do. As far
as the actors go, I judge them more on how they act as people than what they
look like. Even then I know I've only met them in very superficial (and
artificial) situations and I would never presume to know who they really are,
or to take a one-time negative impression and trash them as people.
BTW, it is true that *all* the actors are fair game, and do get dissed here on
occasion. On occasion. Let's just be honest here and admit that on *this*
newsgroup RDM and Beltran take 95% of the dissing. Count the posts, though I
think it's hardly necessary. Anyone who reads this newgroup for any length of
time can't help but notice.
Julianna, other people besides you have put down RDM here. Arlie knocks his
physical appearance regularly though she says she doesn't really dislike him.
Millicent knocked the way he talks/eats, and Fiona has said she doesn't care
for him as an actor and doesn't find him physically attractive (though I
haven't gotten a clear picture of whether she dislikes RDM the person or has
met him--if she posted about that it was before I started reading posts here
again). But no one posts as frequently as you do knocking RDM (and Beltran),
and in fact you were the first person to respond to this post. It shouldn't be
a surprise that your name came up since you jumped in the thread immediately
;-)
BTW, lots of people make surface judgments on the actors at conventions--who
was more entertaining, who is their type, who impressed them more in person,
etc. But saying one person is more entertaining at a convention than others
(at my first convention it was Garrett who stole the show handily from Tim,
Roxann, and Beltran) isn't equatable with whether they are decent people or
nice people, or even who they really are as people since these are their public
personas. I think Maud alluded to that difference in her own judgment of RDM
regarding his acting/convention appearances, which is fair enough.
The race thing. RDM's been knocked here for being a WASPy and a white boy,
specifically implying that part of the reason why some (including Julianna I
believe) don't like him is related to his blond, ultra-white looks. Judging
RDM's character on his race or looks, or refering to his looks in a negative
way directly associated with racial characteristics is no different than
judging anything about Tim based on his race or physical racial
characteristics. It sucks either way, and it shouldn't be done.
Finally, no one is fully objective. It's no surprise that the people who say
the don't care for RDM have certain positions that feed into that opinion.
Julianna thinks Tom is mean to Tuvok and that his screentime takes directly
away from Tuvok's screentime, Fiona and Maud think Tom had a major hand in
ruining B'Elanna's character (despite the fact that Tom is a fictional
character and it is the writers who are fully responsible for how the
characters act and thus reponsible for ruining any character, and TPTB who are
responsible for the allocation of screentime--not RDM or any other actor).
Some might say that I could be predisposed to liking RDM (or Roxann) since I
write about their characters (actually I've written about all of them). True
enough, but I am not predisposed to disliking any of them at all. I have met
and liked all of them, even Beltran who I found a little rude onstage the first
time I saw him. Liking someone is the default position I take on meeting
anyone, and to dislike someone they have to give me a good reason to judge them
so harshly (especially since I don't really know them from a few minutes
observation). Doing something clearly unkind--like being deliberately
insulting to someone, or nasty to a child--might do it, but the Voyager cast
have been uniformly gracious in their appearances. Some are funnier than
others, some are more vivacious, but all are gracious and friendly (even
Beltran, the later times I saw him). None have ever acted in my judgment like
they weren't worthy of respect, in a public forum or not.
Julie
Species 5236
>Lordy.
>
>In the interest of conserving space I won't reference any specific comments
>in
>this thread, I'll just comment on several points.
>
>1. Virginia's original post. Since she sent a shout out to "all kids" I'm
>assuming that Virginia is probably a kid herself. It might be nice if she
>were
>cut a little slack instead of being called things like "stupid."
She's not stupid, she's just been watching way too much MTV.
>OTOH, maybe it's best to chase her away from here right away. This is not a
>nice place as Bozo, Arlie, and several others have pointed out. Maybe it
>would
>be better if Virginia came back when she is a little older and better able to
>defend herself on the Usenet.
>
>2. It's interesting that a post about who likes Tom Paris so quickly
>degenerated into a thread about who doesn't like RDM.
Every post that contains anything like "I think xxx is a great actor" and "I
don't like actor xxx" invariably evolves into a flame war. It's just the way
people are here: very defensive of their favorites and very offensive towards
the actors they despise. It's all a case of too many people with too hot of
tempers.
>On both of these
>issues...
>
>Virginia, if you're still lurking out there, I do like Tom Paris. I've liked
>him from the beginning as I've liked all the characters. It was the
>characters
>who drew me so strongly to Voyager in the first place.
And if people disagree with you, they should still respect your opinion.
>On a critical note, I do not always like how Tom Paris is written, but again
>that is true for all the characters. It is my personal opinion that most of
>them suffered under Braga's tenure. In Braga's vision of the characters
>Harry
>remained immature, Tom became more of a frat boy than he ever was before,
>Tuvok
>became a periodically incompetent security officer and the butt of pranks
>more
>often than the mentor to many of the younger crew that was originally his
>role,
>B'Elanna lost much of her engineering genius to Seven, Janeway became ever
>more
>erratic, etc. The only character who emerged from Braga's tenure with
>considerable character development was Seven, the character he created. She
>was his primary interest and focus, and everyone else was secondary. It
>showed, sometimes painfully so. I have seen the characters being positively
>portrayed more often this season (and more equitably as far as screentime in
>most cases) but the damage was done.
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
>Okay, Tom in particular. I saw Tom from the beginning as a man with an
>unsavory past, an irreverent attitude, and a desire to make good. I saw him
>as
>someone who'd suffered though a hell of his own making, but one who was
>willing
>to admit his mistakes (Caldik Prime) and who was at heart a decent man. I
>saw
>someone who was more than willing to sacrifice himself for his friends and
>crewmates, and who made himself as intergral a part of the crew as anyone. I
>don't gloss over his faults. He can be insensitive and self-involved at
>times,
>he can push it with the joking attitude, but I also see that he has been
>there
>for the crew and for his friends when it really counts (and in the case of
>B'Elanna when she'll actually let him--or anyone--be there for her). I don't
>see some perfect person or character in Tom, but like Julianna does with
>Tuvok
>and Arlie with Harry, I accept his faults (and the at times terrible writing
>that focuses on the negative of the characters more than the positive) and I
>like the character anyway, for those positives I do see very clearly no
>matter
>how much the writers underplay them.
And if you see Tom's good side, then that's all that matters.
>This is getting long ;-)
>
>I'll continue on the rest of the issues in a second post...
>
Looking forward to it. This post was very clearly and eloquently written.
-Species 5236
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
- Galileo Galilei
Species 5236
<snip, snip>
>Some might say that I could be predisposed to liking RDM (or Roxann) since I
>write about their characters (actually I've written about all of them). True
>enough, but I am not predisposed to disliking any of them at all. I have met
>and liked all of them, even Beltran who I found a little rude onstage the
>first
>time I saw him. Liking someone is the default position I take on meeting
>anyone, and to dislike someone they have to give me a good reason to judge
>them
>so harshly (especially since I don't really know them from a few minutes
>observation).
Right. I've made jokes at Robert Beltran's expense several times, but they
didn't have anything to do with Beltran as a person, only as an actor.
Specifically, his Al Gore-like ability to do a perfect imitation of a Redwood
tree. I don't have anything against Beltran as a person, having never met him,
just his acting.
Now, Julianna has a personal reason not to like Beltran the Person, of which
I'm not sure of the details, and that's why she insults him so much. Whether
that's right or wrong is up to you to decide for yourselves.
Species 5236
>That Guy wrote:
> I don't understand what difference it would make. Is it worse for say, a
> white person to make a racist remark against black people, or is it worse
> for a black person to make a racist remark against black people? Does the
> race of the person making the racist remark change the meaning or quality
>of
> the remark?
Society has deemed it acceptable for African Americans to make racist jokes at
the expense of Caucasian people, but not the other way around. Watch "The
Hugleys" and you'll see what I mean: many insults against Caucasian people.
However, if a Caucasian made any kind of joke about African-Americans, he'd be
considered racist and prejudiced.
Double standards are in palce here, people.
Wickeddoll
"Juli17" <jul...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010107162506...@ng-mk1.aol.com...
Natalie
Wickeddoll
"Species 5236" <just...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:20010107181341...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
>
> >That Guy wrote:
>
> > I don't understand what difference it would make. Is it worse for say,
a
> > white person to make a racist remark against black people, or is it
worse
> > for a black person to make a racist remark against black people? Does
the
> > race of the person making the racist remark change the meaning or
quality
> >of
> > the remark?
>
> Society has deemed it acceptable for African Americans to make racist
jokes at
> the expense of Caucasian people, but not the other way around. Watch "The
> Hugleys" and you'll see what I mean: many insults against Caucasian
people.
> However, if a Caucasian made any kind of joke about African-Americans,
he'd be
> considered racist and prejudiced.
> Double standards are in palce here, people.
>
> -Species 5236
>
Natalie, African-American, black chick, soul sister...
Laura
news:A0Z56.11455$Ip3.5...@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net...
> "Julianna Feigl" <glacierqu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jvqe5tshnciu5jv6b...@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 17:39:36 GMT, Colin Hayman <colin...@home.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Julianna Feigl wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:35:35 GMT, "Virginia Philbrick"
> > >> <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR
> TREK
> > >> >VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
> > >>
> > >> Why would I like that childish, immature jerk who's beginning to lose
> > >> his hair and starting to get *really* fat???
> > >
> > >Picture yourself starting a "girls who like Tuvok" thread, and getting
a
> > >reply like that. There's no point -- none at all.
> >
> > there might be lots of girls willing to help me drool over my favorite
> > object of sexual desire. I would maybe start by introducing myself and
> > see how the party goes and what people are talking about. After all,
> > there are enough threads where she could have discussed Tommy-boy.
>
> That does not alter the fact that you were rude and crude.
>
> Bitch.
Hey! That last was unwarranted and WAY over the line!
Eloise Lemay
though. He could have been such an interesting character, when you think
about it.... a shame, really.
Oh and yeah, I think I'd be lying if I say he is ugly. He is not ( in my
humble opinion ). I think the whole B'Elanna/Paris thing was a flop though.
They don't go well together but what the heck... the "engineer" part Torres
was has been given to Seven, so they had to find something else for her. But
it's just a personnal opinion, again.
Or perhaps
"Virginia Philbrick" <mik...@ourtownusa.net> wrote in message
news:01c0744a$817982c0$LocalHost@computer...
King of Cyberia
in town, when Virginia Philbrick hit the dance floor and oozed
karmic vibes to the groove of the "Shake Your Booty" disco music:
\Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And
We all LIKE Star Trek.
Liking Voyager, however, is another matter entirely.
\STAR TREK VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
Don't call the women "girls."
There are Parisites here and there, but he's damaged goods for
me. Love scenes Like in "Drivel" have no chemistry, and he is
full-bodied but not really fat.
Ronda says the T/P relationship is like Leia/Skywalker...
agreed, when you consider that Luke is her brother.
--
KC
I know why everyone hates Voyager. The actors suck up, the
writers blow, and we fans are caught between the currents.
Ronda
gar...@halfbrassed.reincarnate.com wrote:
> Tonight I was at Studio 54 waiting for my date, the meanest chick
> in town, when Virginia Philbrick hit the dance floor and oozed
> karmic vibes to the groove of the "Shake Your Booty" disco music:
>
>
> agreed, when you consider that Luke is her brother.
>
> --
> KC
Let's set the record straight. It is Leia and Solo.
Ronda
>
--
Join the Spockand...@egroups.com Go to
http://home.talkcity.com/ChaplinCt/spockandchristine/index.html for
details.
Also drop in on my Trek page:
http://members.tripod.com/StarTrekRomances/
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
JungFrau
I'm glad somebody can still see straight, I know I can be inflammatory at
times... <g>
F.
Juli17 wrote in message <20010107160503...@ng-mk1.aol.com>...
>Lordy.
>
>In the interest of conserving space I won't reference any specific comments
in
>this thread, I'll just comment on several points.
<snipped in the interests of bandwidth>
JungFrau
Juli17 wrote in message <20010107162506...@ng-mk1.aol.com>...
Okay, fair enough. I know I do that a lot to Robbie, and to Kate and Jeri on
only one occasion. I'm just venting, really. I don't really hate any of
them. They're not that important enough to me.
>BTW, it is true that *all* the actors are fair game, and do get dissed here
on
>occasion. On occasion. Let's just be honest here and admit that on *this*
>newsgroup RDM and Beltran take 95% of the dissing. Count the posts, though
I
>think it's hardly necessary. Anyone who reads this newgroup for any length
of
>time can't help but notice.
That's half the reason I like this newsgroup - it's not filled with endless
'are they blue or grey' threads, about Robbie's eyes. That I find repulsive.
This newsgroup is the most balanced in that regard I've ever come across,
everybody gets a mention, even Neelix! :-)
>Julianna, other people besides you have put down RDM here. Arlie knocks
his
>physical appearance regularly though she says she doesn't really dislike
him.
>Millicent knocked the way he talks/eats, and Fiona has said she doesn't
care
>for him as an actor and doesn't find him physically attractive (though I
>haven't gotten a clear picture of whether she dislikes RDM the person or
has
>met him--if she posted about that it was before I started reading posts
here
>again).
No, I've never met him, but I've been all over his website, and he does
absolutely nothing for me. It just bugs me that he's so smooth and sure of
himself, I interpret it as self-involved. And that he's supposed to be
Voyager's Romeo. He just takes it for granted that people love him. Well I
don't. But I don't hate him, either. He's just irrelevant, and occasionally
good for trashing, easy target.
But no one posts as frequently as you do knocking RDM (and Beltran),
>and in fact you were the first person to respond to this post. It
shouldn't be
>a surprise that your name came up since you jumped in the thread
immediately
>;-)
>
>BTW, lots of people make surface judgments on the actors at
conventions--who
>was more entertaining, who is their type, who impressed them more in
person,
>etc. But saying one person is more entertaining at a convention than
others
>(at my first convention it was Garrett who stole the show handily from Tim,
>Roxann, and Beltran) isn't equatable with whether they are decent people or
>nice people, or even who they really are as people since these are their
public
>personas. I think Maud alluded to that difference in her own judgment of
RDM
>regarding his acting/convention appearances, which is fair enough.
Well I cheer whenever Roxann steals the show, whether it's Voyager or at a
con. But I agree, it's not equatable to how good they are as people. I'm
an introvert, I know better than that. I don't judge the actors on how they
are at cons, I've only ever seen Garrett. But it did make me watch his
performances more on the show, and I've become a fan.
>
>The race thing. RDM's been knocked here for being a WASPy and a white boy,
>specifically implying that part of the reason why some (including Julianna
I
>believe) don't like him is related to his blond, ultra-white looks.
Judging
>RDM's character on his race or looks, or refering to his looks in a
negative
>way directly associated with racial characteristics is no different than
>judging anything about Tim based on his race or physical racial
>characteristics. It sucks either way, and it shouldn't be done.
But the TPTB obviously prefer the three that are blond/e and blue-eyed.
They push them at the expense of the other six characters/actors. They are
the three least interesting characters to me, and it p*sses me off.
>
>Finally, no one is fully objective. It's no surprise that the people who
say
>the don't care for RDM have certain positions that feed into that opinion.
>Julianna thinks Tom is mean to Tuvok and that his screentime takes directly
>away from Tuvok's screentime, Fiona and Maud think Tom had a major hand in
>ruining B'Elanna's character
No, I've never said that! Please don't put words into my mouth! :-(
I've said that Tom treats B'Elanna like dirt, but I do realise that it's the
writers that have puppetted Tom into doing that. How many times have I said
'stupid writers'? It's the repeated battering of B'Elanna as a character, I
hate. Getting married off to Tom like an unwanted daughter was just the
last straw. I've *never* liked Tom, or Robbie, he just doesn't agree with
me personally. Braga took half of B'Elanna's engineering genius and planted
it straight into Seven. She would have been much better served to become a
science officer, I mean there are already two engineers and a pilot to do
all that stuff, not to mention all of B'Elanna's staff.
And I hate that Robbie has had more directing opportunities than any of the
others. Why is that? He's like Paramount's new golden boy. I would
understand if he was some amazing new talent, but he's on the same par with
the other three.
(despite the fact that Tom is a fictional
>character and it is the writers who are fully responsible for how the
>characters act and thus reponsible for ruining any character, and TPTB who
are
>responsible for the allocation of screentime--not RDM or any other actor).
But it's divied up very unfairly, you must admit. Now you get two for the
price of one with P/T. B'Elanna was more interesting single.
>Some might say that I could be predisposed to liking RDM (or Roxann) since
I
>write about their characters (actually I've written about all of them).
True
>enough, but I am not predisposed to disliking any of them at all. I have
met
>and liked all of them, even Beltran who I found a little rude onstage the
first
>time I saw him. Liking someone is the default position I take on meeting
>anyone, and to dislike someone they have to give me a good reason to judge
them
>so harshly (especially since I don't really know them from a few minutes
>observation). Doing something clearly unkind--like being deliberately
>insulting to someone, or nasty to a child--might do it, but the Voyager
cast
>have been uniformly gracious in their appearances. Some are funnier than
>others, some are more vivacious, but all are gracious and friendly (even
>Beltran, the later times I saw him). None have ever acted in my judgment
like
>they weren't worthy of respect, in a public forum or not.
Well I wouldn't scream obscenities at Robbie, either! And I am willing to
be open-minded. But I've read an awful lot of convention reports, from many
different people and there does seem to be a general consensus on them. Some
strike me as more likeable, funny and generous than others, especially
Roxann, Garrett and Ethan, and Picardo. They go out of their way to make
people feel comfortable. Kate and Jeri don't. Tim's very shy, and Beltran
is grumpy. And Robbie just seems to have tickets on himself, surrounding
himself with randomflighters and the like. Not very genuine.
F.
"If *anyone* is going to smash your arrogant little face in, *I* will!!!"
-- B'Elanna Torres, 'Blood Fever', Star Trek: Voyager
JungFrau
Arlie wrote in message <20010106133934...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
>>> He is a very complex character, who
>has shown a lot of growth since the show began. <<
>
>Too bad it's all in his pants size.
LOL!
There we have a perfect example of why Tom is so easy to trash!
F.
"If *anyone* is going to smash your arrogant little face in, *I* will!!!"
-- B'Elanna Torres, 'Blood Fever', Star Trek: Voyager
>
>
JungFrau
Virginia Philbrick wrote in message
<01c0744a$817982c0$LocalHost@computer>...
>Hey I give a shout out to all the kids who like Star Trek And STAR TREK
>VOYAGER. Who of the girls like Tom Paris?
>
<diplomatic mode>
JungFrau
JungFrau wrote in message <3a59...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
That Guy
> > > Arlie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> Why are people commenting on what I wrote but julianna wrote
> > > > an equally mean statements toward RDM. <<
> > > >
> > > > Probably the racial element.
> > >
> > > I truly didn't mean for it to sound like it. Like I said I
> > > have seen some good pictures of tim ( without the tuvok
> > > disguise) and I thought he looked great. But when he looks
> > > like tuvok, he looks odd. Besides how would one know, what
> > > race I am.
> >
> > I don't understand what difference it would make. Is it worse for say,
a
> > white person to make a racist remark against black people, or is it
worse
> > for a black person to make a racist remark against black people? Does
the
> > race of the person making the racist remark change the meaning or
quality of
> > the remark?
>
> wasn't.
Sorry, Michelle, I didn't mean to say that your comment was racist! I was
just making a general comment.
That Guy
"Species 5236" <just...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:20010107181341...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
>
>
> > I don't understand what difference it would make. Is it worse for say,
a
> > white person to make a racist remark against black people, or is it
worse
> > for a black person to make a racist remark against black people? Does
the
> > race of the person making the racist remark change the meaning or
quality
> >of
> > the remark?
>
> Society has deemed it acceptable for African Americans to make racist
jokes at
> the expense of Caucasian people, but not the other way around. Watch "The
> Hugleys" and you'll see what I mean: many insults against Caucasian
people.
> However, if a Caucasian made any kind of joke about African-Americans,
he'd be
> considered racist and prejudiced.
> Double standards are in palce here, people.
>
> -Species 5236
Yes, it is true. But though I am white, I don't feel put down when black
people make racist jokes about whites. However, you are right that double
standards exist, and they probably don't help ease racial tensions much, if
any.
That Guy
"Wickeddoll" <wicke...@nofeckingspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M9766.1098$bE4....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Yes. Dissing anyone for who they are or what they look like is just
foolishness.
That Guy
"Arlie" <arl...@aol.comNoSpam> wrote in message
news:20010107080127...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> >> So if I understand what you're saying, it's ok to make rude comments
and
> insults in public about celebrities, even though it is not ok to do this
to
> non-celebrities? And are you saying that this is because they are
famous,
> or because they make more money than many of us? <<
>
> Because they're famous, and they chose that life. That's why it's okay to
rake
> Bill and Hillary Clinton over the coals, but not Chelsea. Chelsea did not
have
> a choice in the matter.
>
> >> But why try to fool yourself into thinking you're not being
> rude? <<
>
> Who said anything about it not being rude?
>
>
> -- Arlie
You still don't get it? It's YOUR choice whether or not to be rude.
Choosing a job that puts you in the spotlight does not signify your
agreement that it's ok for people to tear you apart. Just because someone
is famous doesn't make it any worse to rip them than the average grunt. If
you approached any celebrity and asked them if their celebrity status
implies agreement that it's ok for anyone to insult, disrespect or verbally
abuse them, what do you suppose they'd say? I think you'll agree that in
most cases they would say no. If that's the case, then who decides when
it's OK to rip someone and when it's not? If it's OK to be disrespectful or
insulting to celebrities because they choose to be in the public eye, then
what about people on the street or at shopping malls? After all, they chose
to be there and expose themselves to the public eye. What about people who
dress a little differently or wear their hair differently? They chose to
look that way, exposing themselves to ridicule. What about fat people?
What about people with disabilities? They chose to go out in public and
expose themselves to ridicule, didn't they?
Everyone knows that that there are plenty of people who have no sense of
right and wrong when it comes to trashing other people and will rip anyone,
anytime for anything. And everyone knows the more famous you are, the more
of these people you will be exposed to. But these facts don't make it OK
for anyone to trash someone, whether they are famous or not.
Saying it's OK to ridicule someone because they are famous is like saying
it's OK to rob someone because they're rich. "They chose to expose
themselves to thieves by having all that money, so it's OK to rob them." I
don't think so.
That Guy
"Laura" <law...@strato.net> wrote in message
news:LW766.4828$Ik7....@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Over the line, yes. For that I apologize.
Unwarranted? Maybe.
True? Obviously.