Best Starfleet Captain?
Paul
aspects into consideration, it seems obvious to me that Captain Picard would
be the best of all the Star Trek Captains. I think he was likable,
consistent in his decision making and the type of leader that people would
be willing to follow. Not to mention his authoritative air he had about
him. What do you think?
--
Paul
Cleveland, OH
ve...@gwis.com
www.angelfire.com/oh/paulvecc/index.html
cohok
Your argument is weak, an acceptably arbitrary.
Andy Pan
Sisko anyday of the week and twice on sunday
cohok wrote in message <36537505...@ukans.edu>...
Andy Pan
designed the Defiant.. the first real KICKASS fighting ship of Starfleet...
a captain that knows how to fight fire with fire. He "helped" turn the
Romulans against the Dominion. Even the odds a little..... you could go on
about Capt Picard.. I could go on about capt Sisko...I just like him better.
Andy
FIVEBAND wrote in message <19981118221142...@ng144.aol.com>...
>Andy Pan wrote:
>
>>In diplomacy, Maybe Picard is the best...but in a WAR.... I'd pick Captain
>>Sisko anyday of the week and twice on sunday
>>
>
>Keep in mind, Picard was key in the destruction of 2 Borg hives. And
>don't forget who invented the "Picard Manoever".
J.S.
Steve Christianson wrote in message <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
>Dangermouse wrote:
>>
>> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
>Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
>distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
FIVEBAND
Dangermouse
--
"Try some terrorism for hire; we'll blow shit up... It's more fun!"
Steve Christianson
>
> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
jlf175
>
>hmmm I have to disagree =). Picard then Sisko then the rest. IMHO =)
>
>Steve Christianson wrote in message <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
Why is this argument even taking place? Sisko's mother was
a god, Klingons fear AND respect him, and he cooks a mean
Creole dish or two. What does Picard do? Play a flute?
Janeway? She rasps through her lines while Kirk just loses
his hair.
:)
Ali Andrews
Andy Pan wrote in message <7305sn$2e9$1...@la-mail4.digilink.net>...
>Duely noted...but you could say the same for Captain Sisko, who helped
>designed the Defiant.. the first real KICKASS fighting ship of
Starfleet...
>a captain that knows how to fight fire with fire. He "helped" turn the
>Romulans against the Dominion. Even the odds a little..... you could go
on
>about Capt Picard.. I could go on about capt Sisko...I just like him
better.
Did Sisko help design the Defiant? I thought the first he knew of it was
when SF gave him the ship to use in a mission against the Founders.
Although DS9 is not my forte so I could very easily be wrong :-)
Allie
x
Ali Andrews
Steve Christianson wrote in message <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
>Dangermouse wrote:
>>
>> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
>Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
>distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
Morning Steve :-)
That would be my order too (with Picard way way out in front). Anyway,
Sisco wasn't even a captain for part of DS9.
Allie
x
Steve Christianson
>
> Steve Christianson wrote in message <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
> >Dangermouse wrote:
> >>
> >> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
> >
> >Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> >distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
>
> Morning Steve :-)
Heh, heh, good morning Allie :-) Actually I guess it's getting on lunch
time over there (it's 4:30AM here in DC) so I imagine you'll be off to
the pub for a few in a bit, yes? If you see Castlemaine on tap, think of
me...
> That would be my order too (with Picard way way out in front). Anyway,
> Sisco wasn't even a captain for part of DS9.
Yeah, that's right. He was a commander. Also, he's really either (1)
"captain" of DS9, essentially a star base and not a ship, or (2) captain
of the Defiant. Neither one cuts it in my book.
Interesting how Kirk and Janeway are somewhat similar, though. Both are
cowboy captains in their own way.
Andy Pan
was assigned at Utopia Planitia Shipyard. I think it's also mentioned in the
DS9 Technial Manual.
Ali Andrews wrote in message <730ns5$hme$1...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>...
Dangermouse
Steve Christianson <steve.chr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
> Dangermouse wrote:
> >
> > Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
> Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
I think I'd have to put Sisko and Kirk equally second, and Janeway way
behind, having accidentally come of the starting post heading the wrong
Ali Andrews
Andy Pan wrote in message <730p8u$t1e$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>...
>Said somewhere a DS9 episode that he helped designed the Defiant while he
>was assigned at Utopia Planitia Shipyard. I think it's also mentioned in
the
>DS9 Technial Manual.
>
Thanks Andy :-)
Allie
x
Ali Andrews
Steve Christianson wrote in message <365411...@worldnet.att.net>...
>> >Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
>> >distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
>>
>
>
>Heh, heh, good morning Allie :-) Actually I guess it's getting on lunch
>time over there (it's 4:30AM here in DC) so I imagine you'll be off to
>the pub for a few in a bit, yes? If you see Castlemaine on tap, think of
>me...
Judging by the time on your message you are only 5 hours behind us (if you
are on Eastern time that would fit) :-)
Its 14.33 now and I'm just back from lunch but I only had a mineral water
to wash down my curried parsnip soup (dodgy stuff) and uninteresting
business talk.
I'll be going to the pub Tomorrow lunchtime so 'ill have a Castlemaine in
your honour (although I do prefer a Kronenburg)
>> That would be my order too (with Picard way way out in front). Anyway,
>> Sisco wasn't even a captain for part of DS9.
>
>Yeah, that's right. He was a commander. Also, he's really either (1)
>"captain" of DS9, essentially a star base and not a ship, or (2) captain
>of the Defiant. Neither one cuts it in my book.
So he isn't really in the running for best Captain at all :-)
>Interesting how Kirk and Janeway are somewhat similar, though. Both are
>cowboy captains in their own way.
I see what you mean.
IMO Janeway has every right to do things a bit differently - she isn't able
to get any backup from SF so why should she continue to follow every SF
edict to the letter? Like the Tuvix thing (and I'm not trying to start
another endless debate on this) if this had happened in the Alpha quadrant
she would have had the luxury of getting SF to make the decision - perhaps
hearing would have taken place. Without that sort of support she had to
make a decision herself, whether one agrees with the decision she made - at
least she made it.
Kirk on the other hand was just a rebel at heart :-)
Picard was defiantly straighter than Kirk or Janeway but I have to say he
did have his cowboy moments too.
Allie
x
pro...@kingston.net
>
> Steve Christianson <steve.chr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
> <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > Dangermouse wrote:
> > >
> > > Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
> >
> > distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
>
> behind, having accidentally come of the starting post heading the wrong
> way.
>
IMHO MacKenzie Calhoun. Woo Hoo way to kick A$$ Mac. :-)
Beth
TheFlinx
Ali Andrews <a...@jupiter23.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<731bjb$nqq$2...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>...
> Its 14.33 now and I'm just back from lunch but I only had a mineral water
> to wash down my curried parsnip soup (dodgy stuff) and uninteresting
> business talk.
OH MY GOD!
Curried Parsnip?
And you people wonder why you lost the empire!
Ali Andrews
TheFlinx wrote in message <01be13d6$386f4d20$25b9cdcf@veritas>...
I thought we lost the Empire because we put tuna, sweetcorn and mayonnaise
on baked potatoes.
Allie
x
JP at work
>OK....who do you guys think is the "best" Starfleet
>captain?
Sisko, hands down.
JP
JP at work
Steve Christianson wrote in message <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
>Dangermouse wrote:
>>
>> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
>Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
>distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
You need to watch the most recent DS9: Battle of AR355. Definitely a
classic condensation of every war movie ever.
JP
JP at work
jlf175 wrote in message <730fnf$so5
>Why is this argument even taking place? Sisko's mother was
>a god, Klingons fear AND respect him, and he cooks a mean
>Creole dish or two. What does Picard do? Play a flute?
>Janeway? She rasps through her lines while Kirk just loses
>his hair.
>
>:)
Preach on!
Sisko, Riker, Picard, Janeway, Kirk
JP
JP at work
Steve Christianson wrote in message <
>really either (1) "captain" of DS9, essentially a star
>base and not a ship, or (2) captain of the Defiant.
>Neither one cuts it in my book.
He has been promoted to Captain a while ago. Get with the program,
Neelix-lover! :)
JP
Dangermouse
pro...@kingston.net wrote
> IMHO MacKenzie Calhoun. Woo Hoo way to kick A$$ Mac. :-)
Every time I see "captain Calhoun" I keep thinking of Rory...
Biomenace
>>cowboy captains in their own way.
>
>I see what you mean.
>
>IMO Janeway has every right to do things a bit differently - she isn't able
>to get any backup from SF so why should she continue to follow every SF
>edict to the letter?
Because she calls herself "captain janeway of the federation ship
voyager". Once she takes off the uniform, and calls herself "captain
janeway of the pirate ship voyager", then she can break rules. But
while she is a representative of the federation, she obeys federation
rules.
>Like the Tuvix thing (and I'm not trying to start
>another endless debate on this) if this had happened in the Alpha quadrant
>she would have had the luxury of getting SF to make the decision - perhaps
>hearing would have taken place. Without that sort of support she had to
>make a decision herself, whether one agrees with the decision she made - at
>least she made it.
She too could have had a hearing. "The Menagerie" establishes that it
can be done with a few officers.
- Biomenace
Email me at bi0m...@removethis.bestweb.net, not
the address you see in "from". Thats a spamtrap.
And note that the 0 is a zero, not an o.
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Phil Sowassey
chick.Janeway 2.Picard 3 and then Sisko.
Brett-D
The clear dominance of Kirk makes it so that that prospective poster
would not even feel compelled to list any others. They are but dim
planets orbiting a bright sun.
William Armstrong
>
> Andy Pan wrote:
>
> >In diplomacy, Maybe Picard is the best...but in a WAR.... I'd pick Captain
> >Sisko anyday of the week and twice on sunday
Acting skill aside, I think Kirk is the best in war. He kicked the most
ass, really. Sisko would be his successor. Picard is too cerebral for
me, really; I mean, Kirk wasn't exactly a moron and Sisko's pretty sharp
too, but Picard...the other two think more with their fists than with
their mind, as Picard does. That's why he's better in diplomacy. Not
that he can't fight, of course... Anyway, I could never really pick a
number one best.
>
> Keep in mind, Picard was key in the destruction of 2 Borg hives. And
> don't forget who invented the "Picard Manoever".
Actually, the Picard Manoevre refers to something else. He was
something when he was younger. :-)
William Armstrong
>
> Dangermouse wrote:
> >
> > Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
> Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
Kirk as third? He's a legend; I'm afraid no one's going to beat him
out. As it goes, I don't think of Janeway as an extraordinary captain,
while Kirk and Picard _are_. As it goes, Picard probably comes out on
top because he had an actor with a far greater range to play him. As
for Sisko...well, I'm just not enough of a DS9 fan.
William Armstrong
>
> In article <730epf$j87$1...@news.NERO.NET>, pytho...@nsrocketmail.com says...
> >
> >hmmm I have to disagree =). Picard then Sisko then the rest. IMHO =)
> >
> >>>
> >>> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
> >>
> >>Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> >>distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
> >
> >
>
> a god, Klingons fear AND respect him, and he cooks a mean
> Creole dish or two. What does Picard do? Play a flute?
> Janeway? She rasps through her lines while Kirk just loses
> his hair.
>
> :)
The Klingon reference makes no sense, here. Do you forget Picard's role
as Arbiter of Accession? He might be a smaller man thatn Sisko, but he
kicks _just_ as much ass! :-) Klingons certainly respect him; probably
more than Sisko, since Picard had a hand in their government's
organisation.
Anyway, I don't like the flute playing, but with that aside, at least
Picard's got an understanding of culture (Shakespeare, etc.).
FIVEBAND
>> Keep in mind, Picard was key in the destruction of 2 Borg hives. And
>> don't forget who invented the "Picard Manoever".
>
>Actually, the Picard Manoevre refers to something else. He was
>something when he was younger. :-)
I was referring to Picard's ability to come up
with brilliant strategies in the heat of battle.
(Yeah I know, it was just the Ferengi, but still.)
He might be older, but he's certainly a hell
of a lot wisernow when it comes to tactics.
William Armstrong
Ugh! :-) That's as bad as the Dutch putting mayo on their fries!
William Armstrong
>
> >>Interesting how Kirk and Janeway are somewhat similar, though. Both are
> >>cowboy captains in their own way.
> >
> >I see what you mean.
> >
> >IMO Janeway has every right to do things a bit differently - she isn't able
> >to get any backup from SF so why should she continue to follow every SF
> >edict to the letter?
>
> Because she calls herself "captain janeway of the federation ship
> voyager". Once she takes off the uniform, and calls herself "captain
> janeway of the pirate ship voyager", then she can break rules. But
> while she is a representative of the federation, she obeys federation
> rules.
The fact that she's in the Delta Quadrant gives her the right to do it
her own way. Besides, Kirk was in Federation territory, and how many
times did he violate Starfleet's many rules? Of course, Janeway's far
more straight-laced than he was, but still.
William Armstrong
>
> I disagree,Kirk 1,he could beat the shit out of anyone then bang some green
> chick.Janeway 2.Picard 3 and then Sisko.
Picard and Kirk tied for first; Sisko a distant second; Janeway a very
distant third.
William Armstrong
Sisko? Are you insane? :) How can you say that? 1) Picard and Kirk
(tied), 2) Sisko, 3) Janeway.
William Armstrong
I know you meant his battle strategy. I remember the reference,
although I couldn't place the show. I was referring to a different sort
of manoevre, which is what "The Picard Manoevre" reminded me of. He is
presented as being quite the ladies' man in his youth. :)
Andy Pan
Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
Brett-D
>
> In article <732cla$ii3$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>, ap...@ucla.edu says...
> >
> >
> >Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
> >
> >
>
> _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
> to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
> the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
>
> Let's not forget some other things:
> 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
> 2. He punched Q
> 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
> 4. Sisko's a family man.
> 5. He likes basketball
> 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in STVIII).
> 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
> 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
> though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
>
> We could go on and on with this one...
> Now if I was Picard fan I'd give you all a chance to surrender, but as it is:
> Mr. O'Brien set phasers on "slaughter"
Look, you misguided heathens who have remained mystifyingly immune to
the power of Bill Shatner can battle it out for 2nd place till the
proverbial bovines come home. I respectfully submit that (a) noone who
appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
bad-asssss captain ever.
Captain Kirk has a bad weave, he perfected low-rent overacting, he gets
all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
indicia of greatness. Live with it.
David B.
> pro...@kingston.net wrote
> > IMHO MacKenzie Calhoun. Woo Hoo way to kick A$$ Mac. :-)
>
> Every time I see "captain Calhoun" I keep thinking of Rory...
>
LOL! Me too.
David B.
> In article <732cla$ii3$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>, ap...@ucla.edu says...
> >
> >
> >Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
> >
> >
>
> Y'see!! That's more ships than Picard, Kirk and of course Janeway could
> _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
> to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
> the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
>
> Let's not forget some other things:
> 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
> 2. He punched Q
> 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
> 4. Sisko's a family man.
> 5. He likes basketball
He likes baseball not basketball.
jlf175
>> Why is this argument even taking place? Sisko's mother was
>> a god, Klingons fear AND respect him, and he cooks a mean
>> Creole dish or two. What does Picard do? Play a flute?
>> Janeway? She rasps through her lines while Kirk just loses
>> his hair.
>>
>> :)
>
>The Klingon reference makes no sense, here. Do you forget Picard's role
>as Arbiter of Accession? He might be a smaller man thatn Sisko, but he
>kicks _just_ as much ass! :-) Klingons certainly respect him; probably
>more than Sisko, since Picard had a hand in their government's
>organisation.
>
Not true!! In later episodes Gowrown tries to erradicate any mention
fot the Federation in the civil war. That's not showing Picard or
the Federation much respect :)
>Anyway, I don't like the flute playing, but with that aside, at least
>Picard's got an understanding of culture (Shakespeare, etc.).
And so Sisko being a religious ICON means nothing in terms of
"understanding culture"
jlf175
FIVEBAND
>. I respectfully submit that (a) noone who
>appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
>realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
>cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
>bad-asssss captain ever.
Oh, and appearing on Fresh Prince and pretending to be a bad-ass cop
does? Even Daryl Gates can kick his ass.
>Captain Kirk has a bad weave, he perfected low-rent overacting, he gets
>all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
>indicia of greatness. Live with it.
>
Hey, Picard can get a rug too if he wanted. Besides, he's a wine maker.
Can Kirk make wine? No. Does Kirk have the will power to resist
Jemaharon (sp?) like Picard. I think not. Can Kirk kick Nasican ass
like Picard can in his sleep? Never. Does Kirk know the proper way to
drink earl grey tea? He doesn't even know what that is. Can Kirk withstand a
full blown mind meld from both Sarek and Spock? He'd
melt like chocolate in a car during summer. Signs of
greatness in Kirk? Picard's smelly swollen toe has more greatness.
Bow to Picard, oh misguided Brett-D, and he will deliver you from
darkness and reveal the light of his essense!
jlf175
>
>the power of Bill Shatner can battle it out for 2nd place till the
>appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
>realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
>cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
>bad-asssss captain ever.
>
>all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
>indicia of greatness. Live with it.
Personally, I think a willfull shaving of one's head rather than having it
occur naturally is a sign of defiance and utter coolness.
cd3...@swt.edu
off
cd3...@swt.edu
put it like this 1) Picard and Kirk 3) Sisko 4) Janeway
cd3...@swt.edu
is Janeway. She treats everyone great as long as they fit into her idea of what
the universe should be for example Seven of Nine. When she was first being
deborged if you will she tells Jeri Ryan that freedom of choice is important for
humans and that the borg were evil because they captured against her will and
changed her mind to make her think that the life they were forcing on her was
the best for her. Then when Seven of nine asks to leave the captain basically
says the life that I am forcing on you is the best for you. Breaks the prime
directive by refusing a distress call. "Help I am lost and want to rejoin my
people" a scared seven of nine says. "Sucks don't it now be my slave" Janeway
smirks.
I like Sisko much better but he has his bad points also like the time when
he was chasing that guy that called himself Jean Val Jean. I mean what is so
bad about trying to defend your home? He takes a personal vendetta to a new
high this time. What is next? I know what Sisko would have done if he had to
deal with the Nanites that Picard had to that Wesley Crusher turned loss on the
ship. Sisko would have nuked them to death four times over. I understand that
most of you say but he is a God. Well only when it suits him. The first chance
he had to lose the title of Embassary he jumped on, but because star fleet did
not like what happened afterward he fought to reclaim his title. Some one said
that he intimidates Klingons. I have never heard a Klingon say that there will
be no peace as long as Sisko lives. This statement is made about Captain Kirk
Twice in the Seven Movies he appeared in. Well that is Sisko
Picard is good but he has a down side also. I mean come on the first two
seasons and the first movie were so weak. I mean stop using old Star Trek plots
and actors carry your own weight. Also stop hiding on the bridge take an away
team sometime and mix it up a little bit. I like Riker but you could be the man
a little more of the time. What is Riker going to do Pull Rank? Lets look at
scoreboard here. Kirk Destroys one ship that is so crippled that he can no
longer use it to fight with it so he tricks an entire crew of Klingons to there
deaths with help of the self destruct. Picard Loses both the Star Gazer and The
Enterprise D to less able foes both times he was caught with his paints down.
Also his heart is not 100% into being a captain many times he has come close to
quitting to do digs or make a new island on Earth.
Now that leaves us with two more. Two you ask who could that be? Well I
will talk about Kirk now. This man has saved earth not once but twice in the
movies alone. He has out fought men from 1996 until present Star Trek day as
far as being a Captain he was the best that is all he ever wanted to do. For
instance one episode where Spock says "Captain Kirk is already in love with one
woman The Enterprise" Kirk was the man that started it all with out Kirk there
would be no other captains. Not only is he a fighter but he was a thinker as
well. The time when he first fought the Gorn he was physically out matched but
what did he do? Not only did he build a gun but he then gave mercy to his fallen
enemy. Picard's and then the walls Fell He could not take the creature with
another man's help. Well I have heard people say that Sisko was a family man
need I remind you about Kirk's son? One Klingon Captain has him killed and Kirk
wishes for the entire Race to be destroyed. Sisko forgets to check on his son
and leaves him behind when the Kadassians take over Deep Space Nine.
As I am growing tired I will finish it up. You are forgetting one name.
Captain Sulu. I mean he is only Captain in one Movie but he is one good
captain. He is a great fighter taking down a security officer that has at least
an entire foot on him in STIII. Not to mention wrecking havoc with an entire
ship with only a sword. Sulu has Children and still breaks commands and orders
to protect his friends i.e. Kirk and Spock. The only knock you can make about
him is that he is only Captain once in the grand scheme of things . So I must
take into consideration what he would do if he had the time that he deserves in
a serious or in a movie run so hear is my ranking:
1 Kirk
2 Picard
3 Sulu
4 Sisko
5 Janeway
but for Honorable mention I must say the Romanulain commander from Balance of
Terror in the original Star Trek series. He is played by the same actor that
plays Spoks father
Paul wrote:
> OK....who do you guys think is the "best" Starfleet captain? Taking all
> aspects into consideration, it seems obvious to me that Captain Picard would
> be the best of all the Star Trek Captains. I think he was likable,
> consistent in his decision making and the type of leader that people would
> be willing to follow. Not to mention his authoritative air he had about
> him. What do you think?
>
> --
> Paul
> Cleveland, OH
> ve...@gwis.com
> www.angelfire.com/oh/paulvecc/index.html
Ali Andrews
William Armstrong wrote in message <3654AB...@sympatico.ca>...
And not only the Dutch - Mayonnaise on Chips (British for Fries) is common
in Europe and very yummy. Much better than Ketchup.
Allie
x
Steve Christianson
:-) Actually I picked up the mayonnaise on french fries habit when I
lived in The Hague as a kid. Vinegar is good too.
RYAN REICH
engineering design team assigned to Commander Shelby to develope
armaments to be used against the BORG. He was infomed of the builbing
of Defiant class starships, but didnt know about the posting to DS9.
Lets keep it real.
Havoc
:
: Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
:
:
Good point...
Religious Icon..
Intermediary to Bajoran Gods..
Father (the only Captain that also had to deal with family)
Makes 2200 ships disappear (much like Moses splitting the Sea to have it
come crashing down on the Egyptians)
Also the "American History" figure behind the Bell riots.
He has usurped Picard's role as mentor to Worf.
When you *really* think about it..
No other CO can compare to Sisko, except probably Kirk. But while Kirk
goes down to Federation history books as something the equivalent of a
Davey Crocket... Sisko will go down in Bajoran history as a Moses-Jesus
type. Hmmmm.
The Nagys
Deciding who is better for the viewer will usually come down to a
personal preference or who was first watched. For a long time after he
was replaced, Sean Connery was still said to be the best James Bond.
Eventually time faded everyone's memories and now the titile debatable.
The same reasoning causes most people to choose Picard--he was the one
many people grew up with so they think he was the best. Those of us who
are older may remember Kirk, but time has made us more objective.
Or is the question about who does their job the best? In that case, I'm
not sure, althogh I know Picard is the worst captain in this way. We
the viewers get to see some of his personal side, but most of his crew
never does. Once in a while, a senior officer will see his human side,
but that happens rarely. In real life, his crew would not like him or
want to follow him. And his command style stinks. My bother-in-law is
an officer in tha air force, and he says Picard wouldn't last 5 minutes
in the military.
As a viewer, I like Janeway--she cares about her crew as people; she's a
bit rebellious, but not over-the-top like Kirk; and she seeems to be
suppressing a smile constantly.
Ann
William Armstrong
>
> In article <732cla$ii3$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>, ap...@ucla.edu says...
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
> to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
> the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
Was "their" a typo? I hope so! :)
> Let's not forget some other things:
> 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
Not something to be proud of. Should be beneath such a "great"
commander.
> 2. He punched Q
So what?
> 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
They all do.
> 4. Sisko's a family man.
What does that do for him? So he's got a son more annoying than
Wesley. Good job, Sisko.
> 5. He likes basketball
Okay, this would prevent me from ever liking the guy more than Picard
and/or Kirk. Basketball? That is no sport. It's right up their with
golf.
> 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in STVIII).
I haven't seen this, but it seems hard to believe that a warrior like
Worf - a Klingon - would be intimidated by Sisko.
> 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
So was Kirk, so _is_ Picard. Their crew would follow them anywhere,
just as Sisko's would.
> 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
> though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
This is a bit unfair. If Picard was stuck babysitting a planet, he'd
earn their respect in such a way. But Picard is out there. Plus,
Picard has command of the finest starship in the fleet, the flagship.
> We could go on and on with this one...
> Now if I was Picard fan I'd give you all a chance to surrender, but as it is:
William Armstrong
>
> jlf175 wrote:
>
> > In article <732cla$ii3$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>, ap...@ucla.edu says...
> > >
> > >
> > >Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Y'see!! That's more ships than Picard, Kirk and of course Janeway could
> > _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
> > to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
> > the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
> >
> > 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
> > 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
>
> He likes baseball not basketball.
Baseball? That's even worse. Why can't he play something with a bit
more contact, like rugby, for example? Baseball just doesn't do it for
me.
William Armstrong
the time the movies started coming out, he just wasn't the same guy. I
mean, still a great captain, but over the hill. As Sick Boy said, in
his theory of life, Kirk had it, and then he lost it.
Brett-D wrote:
>
> jlf175 wrote:
> >
> > In article <732cla$ii3$1...@carroll.library.ucla.edu>, ap...@ucla.edu says...
> > >
> > >
> > >Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Y'see!! That's more ships than Picard, Kirk and of course Janeway could
> > _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
> > to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
> > the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
> >
> > Let's not forget some other things:
> > 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
> > 2. He punched Q
> > 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
> > 4. Sisko's a family man.
> > 5. He likes basketball
> > 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in STVIII).
> > 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
> > 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
> > though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
> >
> > We could go on and on with this one...
> > Now if I was Picard fan I'd give you all a chance to surrender, but as it is:
> > Mr. O'Brien set phasers on "slaughter"
>
William Armstrong
>
> Mr. O'Brien set phasers on "slaughter"
> >
> >Look, you misguided heathens who have remained mystifyingly immune to
> >the power of Bill Shatner can battle it out for 2nd place till the
> >proverbial bovines come home. I respectfully submit that (a) noone who
> >appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
> >realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
> >cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
> >bad-asssss captain ever.
> >
> >Captain Kirk has a bad weave, he perfected low-rent overacting, he gets
> >all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
> >indicia of greatness. Live with it.
>
> occur naturally is a sign of defiance and utter coolness.
Are you talking about Sisko here? If so, I think because he's black he
can pull it off. Shaved heads on white guys don't really look right. I
mean, I have no complaints with Picard, but still.
William Armstrong
> He has usurped Picard's role as mentor to Worf.
And yet somehow Worf turns up in the movies, as devoted to Picard as
ever. Face it, Dorn went to DS9 when The Next Generation ended; what
were they to do? Have him constantly remind Sisko he's no Picard? A
man can have more than one mentor. He can learn things from Sisko he
can't learn from Picard because they're different men, but that doesn't
necessarily mean Sisko has usurped Picard's position.
> When you *really* think about it..
> No other CO can compare to Sisko, except probably Kirk. But while Kirk
> goes down to Federation history books as something the equivalent of a
> Davey Crocket... Sisko will go down in Bajoran history as a Moses-Jesus
> type. Hmmmm.
You're right, I suppose. The thing is, though, the Kirk-types are more
respected in history than the Moses-Jesus type. Besides, I think Sisko
is sort of like a mixture of Picard and Kirk. The intelligence and
almost regal bearing of Picard, but with the physical side of Kirk in
his prime. Not that Picard can't fight. He just can't fight as well as
Kirk or Sisko, as we saw in "Generations". Still, I just can't like
Sisko enough to place him above Kirk or Picard.
William Armstrong
>
> What about Captian Kirk's Corbalmight Manoevre Picard could never pull that
> off
Of course not! :) Picard would be _way_ out of his league! Picard:
"I'm about to attempt the Corbalmight Manoevre..."
Girl: "Are you _crazy_?? Who do you think you are - Kirk??"
Picard: "Just watch me...urrrrgh! No! Noooooo!"
Girl: "Thanks for nothing, Picard."
Picard: "Well if Houdini couldn't do it, what chance do I have?"
William Armstrong
> >> I thought we lost the Empire because we put tuna, sweetcorn and
> mayonnaise
> >> on baked potatoes.
> >
> >Ugh! :-) That's as bad as the Dutch putting mayo on their fries!
>
> And not only the Dutch - Mayonnaise on Chips (British for Fries) is common
> in Europe and very yummy. Much better than Ketchup.
I don't actually put ketchup on mine. But when some of my uncle's
relatives came over from Holland, they were appalled at the amount of
salt we put on our fries (or chips). But, I've never actually had mayo
on them, so I don't really know if it's good or not....doesn't actually
gross me out!
Havoc
William Armstrong (william....@sympatico.ca) wrote:
:
: > 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in STVIII).
:
: I haven't seen this, but it seems hard to believe that a warrior like
: Worf - a Klingon - would be intimidated by Sisko.
:
Been credibly established several times. In one episode, it was even
suggested that Sisko would make a better Klingon than Worf.
: > 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
:
: So was Kirk, so _is_ Picard. Their crew would follow them anywhere,
: just as Sisko's would.
:
Actually.. Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Sisko are all respected by their
crews.... but none are worshipped. Sisko is considered a Moses or Jesus
to the People of Bajor. So yes, Sisko is the only Captain who is
WORHSIPPED.
: > 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
: > though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
:
: This is a bit unfair. If Picard was stuck babysitting a planet, he'd
: earn their respect in such a way. But Picard is out there. Plus,
: Picard has command of the finest starship in the fleet, the flagship.
:
Picard could never earn the same honor bestowed upon Sisko for several
reasons...
First, he would probably never allow the Bajorans to worship him as
Emissary.
But more importantly, the Prophets didn't pick him!
jlf175
>> >
>> >
>> >Again, Captain Sisko, the man(god) who made 2200 Dominion Ships disappear.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Y'see!! That's more ships than Picard, Kirk and of course Janeway could
>> _ever_ hope to destroy in their careers. And he didn't even fire a shot
>> to blow them up. Heck, every time Picard's ship runs into a bad guy
>> the starboard power coupling goes all the crap and their dead in the water!
>>
>> Let's not forget some other things:
>> 1. Sisko blackmails Ferrengi.
>> 2. He punched Q
>> 3. Sisko shoots to kill!
>> 4. Sisko's a family man.
>> 5. He likes basketball
>
>
Oh gosh.. major typo.. :(
R Wolf
William Armstrong wrote in message <365584...@sympatico.ca>...
>jlf175 wrote:
>> 5. He likes basketball
>
>Okay, this would prevent me from ever liking the guy more than Picard
>and/or Kirk. Basketball? That is no sport. It's right up their with
>golf.
When did Sisko *ever* mention *basketball*? Only one who happened to be
severely sports-impaired could mistake the *baseball* on his desk for a
*basketball.*
___________
Ryan D Wolf
"People care as much as they can, but ultimately each of us lives, and dies,
alone."--Far Beyond the Stars--Steve Barnes
Ed Sanchez
2. Sisko
3. Kirk
4. Janeway
William Armstrong
>
> Distribution:
>
> William Armstrong (william....@sympatico.ca) wrote:
> :
> : > 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in STVIII).
> :
> : I haven't seen this, but it seems hard to believe that a warrior like
> : Worf - a Klingon - would be intimidated by Sisko.
> :
> Been credibly established several times. In one episode, it was even
> suggested that Sisko would make a better Klingon than Worf.
Yes, well, obviously I haven't seen much of DS9 lately, but from what
you've said here, I'm glad of it. Poor Worf, being degraded so.
> : > 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
> :
> : So was Kirk, so _is_ Picard. Their crew would follow them anywhere,
> : just as Sisko's would.
> :
> Actually.. Kirk, Picard, Janeway and Sisko are all respected by their
> crews.... but none are worshipped. Sisko is considered a Moses or Jesus
> to the People of Bajor. So yes, Sisko is the only Captain who is
> WORHSIPPED.
Ah, worshipped by the Bajorans, then? That's different. That doesn't
really mean anything in terms of who is a better captain.
> : > 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
> : > though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
> :
> : This is a bit unfair. If Picard was stuck babysitting a planet, he'd
> : earn their respect in such a way. But Picard is out there. Plus,
> : Picard has command of the finest starship in the fleet, the flagship.
> :
> Picard could never earn the same honor bestowed upon Sisko for several
> reasons...
> First, he would probably never allow the Bajorans to worship him as
> Emissary.
Perhaps you're right. Picard wouldn't allow them to worship him anyway,
because he knows he's unworthy of it - as is Sisko. That makes Picard
the better man, the better commander.
But more importantly, the Prophets didn't pick him!
Prophets?? God, it's the 24th century and they're listening to
prophets? My God. Sisko's a bright guy, but I don't know about this
one. Listening to prophets. Next thing you know he'll be sacrificing
white bulls and reading their entrails.
William Armstrong
>
> William Armstrong wrote in message <365584...@sympatico.ca>...
> >jlf175 wrote:
> >> 5. He likes basketball
> >
> >Okay, this would prevent me from ever liking the guy more than Picard
> >and/or Kirk. Basketball? That is no sport. It's right up their with
> >golf.
>
> When did Sisko *ever* mention *basketball*? Only one who happened to be
> severely sports-impaired could mistake the *baseball* on his desk for a
> *basketball.*
I haven't. Someone else who is a fan of the show mentioned that he
played *basketball*. However, only someone severely sports-impaired
would consider either a real sport.
Havoc
: > :
: > Been credibly established several times. In one episode, it was even
: > suggested that Sisko would make a better Klingon than Worf.
:
: Yes, well, obviously I haven't seen much of DS9 lately, but from what
: you've said here, I'm glad of it. Poor Worf, being degraded so.
Nope, not degrading Worf... Just showing the strength of Sisko.
:
: > : > 7. Sisko is WORSHIPED!
: > :
:
: Ah, worshipped by the Bajorans, then? That's different. That doesn't
: really mean anything in terms of who is a better captain.
:
It certainly makes him pretty powerful.
: > : > 8. Sisko is more respected by the Bajorans than Picard ever will be even
: > : > though Picard says "He had a special attachment to the Bajorans..."
: > :
: > : This is a bit unfair. If Picard was stuck babysitting a planet, he'd
: > : earn their respect in such a way. But Picard is out there. Plus,
: > : Picard has command of the finest starship in the fleet, the flagship.
: > :
: > Picard could never earn the same honor bestowed upon Sisko for several
: > reasons...
: > First, he would probably never allow the Bajorans to worship him as
: > Emissary.
:
: Perhaps you're right. Picard wouldn't allow them to worship him anyway,
: because he knows he's unworthy of it - as is Sisko. That makes Picard
: the better man, the better commander.
:
Sisko is quite worthy of it, although originally he himself would have
agreed with you. But he eventually did accept it, because the Prophets
selected him.
: But more importantly, the Prophets didn't pick him!
:
: Prophets?? God, it's the 24th century and they're listening to
: prophets? My God. Sisko's a bright guy, but I don't know about this
: one. Listening to prophets. Next thing you know he'll be sacrificing
: white bulls and reading their entrails.
Obviously, you aren't watching DS9. DS9 has gone beyond the atheistic
sterility of most Trek. The Bajorans worship the Prophets.. who can also
be seen as simple wormhole aliens. But even if you merely view them as
wormhole aliens, you can't argue with their power. They saved the Alpha
Quadrant from an additional invasion of 2200 Domininion ships... They can
see into the Future... and they also inhabited the body of a human female
who gave birth to Sisko. Thus, there is no doubt.. that Sisko's story is
more 'epic' than Picard's. Good Starfleet Captain (Picard) vs the
Emissary to the Prophets of Bajor (Sisko).
cd3...@swt.edu
confused a great deal. Lets how could that happen? Well Sisko shaves his
head. Lots of Basketball players shave their heads. Sisko spends time
yelling at people in an angry manor Worf etc. The average basketball player
talks trash. Basketball players hit the Reffs. Sisko punched Q. Sisko has
never been much of a diplomat and the basketball players cannot solve the
lockout. Sisko is a single parent and every basketball player has atleaste
three kids out of wed lock it is in their contract. Well maybe he does like
basketball
Andy Pan
STVIII).
>> :
>> : I haven't seen this, but it seems hard to believe that a warrior like
>> : Worf - a Klingon - would be intimidated by Sisko.
Ezri told Sisko that Worf is intimidated by him....
>Prophets?? God, it's the 24th century and they're listening to
>prophets? My God. Sisko's a bright guy, but I don't know about this
>one. Listening to prophets. Next thing you know he'll be sacrificing
>white bulls and reading their entrails.
He doesn't OBEY all the Prophets' advice... in fact Sisko bullied the
Prophets into making the 2200 DOMINION ships disappear~
RJ
Does this question even need to be asked?
It has been and always will be James Tiberius Kirk, a legend.
William Armstrong
>
> >> : > 6. He intimdates Worf (eat that Picard--Worf yelled at you in
> STVIII).
> >> :
> >> : I haven't seen this, but it seems hard to believe that a warrior like
> >> : Worf - a Klingon - would be intimidated by Sisko.
>
> Ezri told Sisko that Worf is intimidated by him....
Maybe. The thing is, I think he was a little intimidated by Picard as
well. Picard is of course a smaller man than both Sisko and Worf, but
that doesn't probably wouldn't mean that much to a Klingon warrior, who
would judge a man on his deeds and his courage. But, maybe Worf
respects and/or is intimidated by Sisko more than he was by Picard.
That's possible, people change; anyway, as you've probably guessed, I
haven't seen DS9 in a long while.
> >Prophets?? God, it's the 24th century and they're listening to
> >prophets? My God. Sisko's a bright guy, but I don't know about this
> >one. Listening to prophets. Next thing you know he'll be sacrificing
> >white bulls and reading their entrails.
As for the Dominion threat, I think that Picard's involvement with the
Borg (especially that in First Contact) is a greater conflict. After
all, one Borg ship can outclass an entire fleet of the Federation _or_
the Dominion.
Brett-D
>
> Mr. O'Brien set phasers on "slaughter"
> >
> >Look, you misguided heathens who have remained mystifyingly immune to
> >the power of Bill Shatner can battle it out for 2nd place till the
> >proverbial bovines come home. I respectfully submit that (a) noone who
> >appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
> >realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
> >cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
> >bad-asssss captain ever.
> >
> >Captain Kirk has a bad weave, he perfected low-rent overacting, he gets
> >all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
> >indicia of greatness. Live with it.
>
> Personally, I think a willfull shaving of one's head rather than having it
> occur naturally is a sign of defiance and utter coolness.
Personally, I think that getting a a god-awful weave that everyone knows
is fake hair and then wearing it for about 25 years shows an amusing,
pixie-like disdain for popular convention. William Shatner's brilliance
will live on after all of us, and is incumbent upon those now living to
impart these values on those yet not born.
Brett-D
>
> Brett-D wrote:
>
> >. I respectfully submit that (a) noone who
> >appeared on Spenser: For Hire can legitimately claim dominion in the
> >realm of captainhood; (b) appearing on an SNL sketch hawking erotic
> >cakes of women urinating cuts severely into the claim of biggest
> >bad-asssss captain ever.
>
> does? Even Daryl Gates can kick his ass.
>
> >Captain Kirk has a bad weave, he perfected low-rent overacting, he gets
> >all the hos, and he........ pauses for no apparent reason. These are the
> >indicia of greatness. Live with it.
> >
>
> Can Kirk make wine? No. Does Kirk have the will power to resist
> Jemaharon (sp?) like Picard. I think not. Can Kirk kick Nasican ass
> like Picard can in his sleep? Never. Does Kirk know the proper way to
> drink earl grey tea? He doesn't even know what that is. Can Kirk withstand a
> full blown mind meld from both Sarek and Spock? He'd
> melt like chocolate in a car during summer. Signs of
> greatness in Kirk? Picard's smelly swollen toe has more greatness.
> Bow to Picard, oh misguided Brett-D, and he will deliver you from
> darkness and reveal the light of his essense!
I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
Havoc
William Armstrong wrote in message <365619...@sympatico.ca>...
>
>That's not what I mean. I don't watch DS9 much, but I think it's safe
>to say that you aren't likely to find Sisko curled up with the collected
>works of the old chap (Shakespeare), listening to Classical music, etc.
>(The opera doesn't count, though; unless, of course, Picard understands
>the languages they're singing in.) Besides, Sisko plays _baseball_.
>That would be below the dignity of a man like Picard.
But nickel Detective paperbacks are very dignified? Sisko is a bit too
cultured to go around playing in holodecks.
Sisko has been shown to be a student of history (Earth and Bajoran),
religion, cuisine (primarily Cajun cooking). True... he is less "European"
than Picard... but he is a greatly cultured person. And I don't see how the
Great American Past time could be 'below' anyone's dignity.
I do happen to like Picard...
and Sisko, and Kirk... and even some things about Janeway.
What I don't understand... is the anti-DS9 bias that some Trek viewers seem
to hold..
Where they will insult and criticize things from DS9 merely because they are
different than TNG. This is the crowd who was so vocal that "DS9 is bad
because they don't have a ship." Or, "Sisko is stupid because he isn't as
diplomatic and thoughtful as Picard." Or, "Who wants to discuss the
politics and religion of the Bajorans?" It's as if there is this group of
fans that were so in love with Jean-Luc Picard and TNG, that they feel
anything different is an afront to their view of what Trek should be. To
this crowd, Data is the quintissential outsider and student of human
behavior, eventhough both Odo (Rene Auberjonois) and Spock (Leonard Nimoy)
presented far better acted, and far more interesting and complex characters.
Would someone care to explain to me this anti-DS9 bias? Where anything done
by DS9 is stupid, yet something similar in TNG is genious.
David B.
> Brett D wrote:
>
> >Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
> >sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
>
> I'd respond, but I don't know who Derek
> Jacobi is.
Yeah, who is Derek Jacobi?
Antony Alonso
>Dangermouse wrote:
>> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
>distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
Ya know --- I now know why you don't appreciate DS9. It requires
a relative attention to detail; I suspect you suffer from attention
deficiency syndrome, Steve [it's the lawyer in ya --- I swear! :-]
--
*ATTENTION*
==========
Do NOT auto-reply to this message. The return address has been purposefully
altered so as to prevent unsolicited spam mail. To properly respond via
email, delete the "/REMOVE/" in the reply-to address.
Steve Christianson
>
> Steve Christianson wrote:
> >
> > Dangermouse wrote:
> > >
> > > Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
> >
> > Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> > distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
>
> out. As it goes, I don't think of Janeway as an extraordinary captain,
> while Kirk and Picard _are_. As it goes, Picard probably comes out on
> top because he had an actor with a far greater range to play him. As
> for Sisko...well, I'm just not enough of a DS9 fan.
I see Janeway and Kirk as rather similar: away from the home
authorities, making decisions by the seat of their pants. Kirk, however
(and I was a TOS viewer as a kid so I hear you about the "legend"
viewpoint), is too much "my father's Oldsmobile" for me now.
William Armstrong
>
> >>
> >> Why is this argument even taking place? Sisko's mother was
> >> a god, Klingons fear AND respect him, and he cooks a mean
> >> Creole dish or two. What does Picard do? Play a flute?
> >> Janeway? She rasps through her lines while Kirk just loses
> >> his hair.
> >>
> >> :)
> >
> >The Klingon reference makes no sense, here. Do you forget Picard's role
> >as Arbiter of Accession? He might be a smaller man thatn Sisko, but he
> >kicks _just_ as much ass! :-) Klingons certainly respect him; probably
> >more than Sisko, since Picard had a hand in their government's
> >organisation.
> >
>
> Not true!! In later episodes Gowrown tries to erradicate any mention
> fot the Federation in the civil war. That's not showing Picard or
> the Federation much respect :)
Wouldn't the rest of the empire remember? I mean, Gowrown might not
have any honour, but I don't think most Klingons are like that. They
would see Gowrown's actions as dishonourable. I can't believe that his
actions help him any in the Council.
> >Anyway, I don't like the flute playing, but with that aside, at least
> >Picard's got an understanding of culture (Shakespeare, etc.).
>
> And so Sisko being a religious ICON means nothing in terms of
> "understanding culture"
FIVEBAND
Antony Alonso
>The description of Picard that you gave can be said of all the other
>captains. Your argument is weak, an acceptably arbitrary.
Consistency in decision-making hasn't been one of Captain Janeway's
attributes. Your reply is over-generalized.
>Paul wrote:
>> OK....who do you guys think is the "best" Starfleet captain? Taking all
>> aspects into consideration, it seems obvious to me that Captain Picard
>> would be the best of all the Star Trek Captains. I think he was likable,
>> consistent in his decision making and the type of leader that people would
>> be willing to follow. Not to mention his authoritative air he had about
>> him. What do you think?
Steve Christianson
>
> Hello Steve Christianson, on 19-Nov-98 00:43:06, you said,
>
>
> >> Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
>
> >Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> >distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
>
> a relative attention to detail; I suspect you suffer from attention
> deficiency syndrome, Steve [it's the lawyer in ya --- I swear! :-]
I can see Antony driving his cruiser back to the police station thinking
"Wow, I'm just like Sisko returning to DS9 in the Defiant! Wheeeeeeee!"
:-)
And, of course, the West Virginia--edge of nowhere analogy is just too
easy...:-)
Antony Alonso
[snip]
>IMO Janeway has every right to do things a bit differently - she isn't
>able to get any backup from SF so why should she continue to follow
>every SF edict to the letter?
Too bad she adhered to it in "Prey" though, eh?
>Like the Tuvix thing (and I'm not trying to start another endless debate
Sure you're not :) [J/K]
>on this) if this had happened in the Alpha quadrant she would have had
>the luxury of getting SF to make the decision - perhaps hearing would
>have taken place. Without that sort of support she had to make a decision
>herself, whether one agrees with the decision she made - at least she
>made it.
Without taking issue on the content, I agree about her isolationist take
(or should be take).
>Kirk on the other hand was just a rebel at heart :-)
Cowboy, actually.
>Picard was defiantly straighter than Kirk or Janeway but I have to say he
>did have his cowboy moments too.
Few and far between.
>Allie
>x
Brett-D
Derek Jacobi is, like Patrick Stewart, an alumnus of the Royal
Shakespearean Company. He appeared with Patrick Stewart in I, Claudius
and played Hamlet's murderous uncle in Kenneth Branagh's most recent
endless version of Hamlet.
Antony Alonso
>I can see Antony driving his cruiser back to the police station thinking
>"Wow, I'm just like Sisko returning to DS9 in the Defiant! Wheeeeeeee!"
>:-)
Heh. Or Steve behind the wheel of his car going to the officer: "I
swear, Ossifer... my motor coordination is malfunctioning. No, no, no...
it wasn't alcohol, I swear --- ever hear of synthehol?" :)
>And, of course, the West Virginia--edge of nowhere analogy is just too
>easy...:-)
In space, no one can hear you scream? :)
SJohnson
>
> Hello Steve Christianson, on 21-Nov-98 01:17:58, you said,
>
> >I can see Antony driving his cruiser back to the police station thinking
> >"Wow, I'm just like Sisko returning to DS9 in the Defiant! Wheeeeeeee!"
> >:-)
>
> Heh. Or Steve behind the wheel of his car going to the officer: "I
> swear, Ossifer... my motor coordination is malfunctioning. No, no, no...
> it wasn't alcohol, I swear --- ever hear of synthehol?" :)
ROTF!!
"...And Live Long and Pros-, Prop-, Possiper, Ossifer!"
[sounds of Steve being carried to the seventh floor wing of the nearest
hospital]
>
> >And, of course, the West Virginia--edge of nowhere analogy is just too
> >easy...:-)
>
> In space, no one can hear you scream? :)
Uhm, unless you squeal like a pig for 'em... That *is* Virgin-ny, ain't
it? ;)
[SJ scampers away]
SJohnson
Ali Andrews
<NightShade@Clarks/REMOVE/burg.com> wrote:
>Hello Steve Christianson, on 21-Nov-98 01:17:58, you said,
>
>>I can see Antony driving his cruiser back to the police station thinking
>>"Wow, I'm just like Sisko returning to DS9 in the Defiant! Wheeeeeeee!"
>>:-)
>
>Heh. Or Steve behind the wheel of his car going to the officer: "I
>swear, Ossifer... my motor coordination is malfunctioning. No, no, no...
>it wasn't alcohol, I swear --- ever hear of synthehol?" :)
ROTFLMAO :-)))
Allie
x
William Armstrong
> >to say that you aren't likely to find Sisko curled up with the collected
> >works of the old chap (Shakespeare), listening to Classical music, etc.
> >(The opera doesn't count, though; unless, of course, Picard understands
> >the languages they're singing in.) Besides, Sisko plays _baseball_.
> >That would be below the dignity of a man like Picard.
>
I must admit I'd forgotten about the Dixon Hill roleplaying Picard
does. I suppose it's never fitted with the character for me. It
doesn't go along with the fencing and horseback riding, the classical
music, the opera (which I don't care for), the Shakespeare.... The
writers who though that up, frankly, should be _shot_. :) Actually, I
think Picard should have been the one to be interested in Sherlock
Holmes first, and perhaps introduced Data to it. Although the same
idea, I think Holmes was probably the first of the detectives; later
ones were probably updated for the times, made into the "gumshoe". I
really can't see Picard bothering with them.
Sisko is a bit too
> cultured to go around playing in holodecks.
I don't think so. I think he's too cultured to go playing around in
"holosuites", but the holodeck, no. Do you forget the baseball games on
the holodeck? Besides, the holodeck would probably have a better
reputation than, say, if a great leader today was caught playing
Nintendo. It all depends on the programmes they run. If they use
programmes like Barclay did, that's frivolous and pointless; but if used
for more "cultured" pursuits or for education, etc., it's perfectly
alright. Now, Sisko's baseball playing is alright because he plays it
as it was at its height.
Sisko has been shown to be a student of history (Earth and Bajoran),
> religion, cuisine (primarily Cajun cooking). True... he is less "European"
> than Picard... but he is a greatly cultured person.
I don't mean to say he's a boor, I'm just saying Picard's in a different
league. Sisko would no doubt have a greater knowledge of Bojoran
history than Picard, but not necessarily of Earth history; although
Picard has been shown to be very interested in ancient alien cultures,
so his knowledge may lie more in that area, and might have only a
superficial knowledge of Earth history.
And I don't see how the
> Great American Past time could be 'below' anyone's dignity.
Look, I like baseball as much as the next guy. It's not my favourite
sport, but I still like it. Now, I was a bit harsh when I said it would
be below the dignity of Picard. I suppose the time period in which
Sisko plays it, it was more of a true sport. I was thinking of it as it
has become in today's world.
> I do happen to like Picard...
> and Sisko, and Kirk... and even some things about Janeway.
> What I don't understand... is the anti-DS9 bias that some Trek viewers seem
> to hold..
> Where they will insult and criticize things from DS9 merely because they are
> different than TNG. This is the crowd who was so vocal that "DS9 is bad
> because they don't have a ship." Or, "Sisko is stupid because he isn't as
> diplomatic and thoughtful as Picard." Or, "Who wants to discuss the
> politics and religion of the Bajorans?" It's as if there is this group of
> fans that were so in love with Jean-Luc Picard and TNG, that they feel
> anything different is an afront to their view of what Trek should be.
No, no, if that was true I wouldn't be a Voyager fan. Although
Voyager's been rockier than TNG was, I'm still a huge fan, and I do like
DS9. I don't think it's less of a show than the others because it
doesn't have a ship. The whole point, I thought, was to show the Trek
idea from the perspective of those space station commanders where
starships are always docking. Now, I must admit the politics and
religion of the Bajorans doesn't interest me, but I don't judge Sisko
entirely on the fact that he isn't as diplomatic and thoughful as
Picard. Although Picard is also a man of action, Sisko is more alike to
Kirk in that regard. The fact that he is not as "cultured", in my
opinion, as Picard, doesn't make him an ineffective captain; he has
shown himself to be receptive to those things, and to have an interest
in some of them. He's just not in the same league, in _that_ area, as
Picard.
To
> this crowd, Data is the quintissential outsider and student of human
> behavior, eventhough both Odo (Rene Auberjonois) and Spock (Leonard Nimoy)
> presented far better acted, and far more interesting and complex characters.
Spock, I agree with; no one can replace him. But Odo? No, I'm afraid
Data is a better character. At first, in the early years of TNG, I
didn't care for him much, and I thought it would be easy to play him,
but I think now that it actually takes a great deal of skill. Odo, ont
he other hand, in comparison with Spock and Data, would be rather easy.
> Would someone care to explain to me this anti-DS9 bias? Where anything done
> by DS9 is stupid, yet something similar in TNG is genius.
I don't have that bias, I don't think; well, a little, true, but I don't
_hate_ DS9. I don't think TNG was genius - they had their share of
clunkers, especially early on - but I do think it "worked" better than
the two spin-offs - DS9 and Voyager.
William Armstrong
>
> I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
> typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
> their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
> sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
Derek Jacobi? You dare bring him into this? The actor of the dreadful,
terrible, supremely awful "I, Claudius"? I think Picard deserves more
credit than that. Although I think Kirk will always be _the_ captain,
just as the original Star Trek will never be overtaken, I think Picard
is a worthy successor to Kirk.
Steve Christianson
>
> Hello Steve Christianson, on 21-Nov-98 01:17:58, you said,
>
> >I can see Antony driving his cruiser back to the police station thinking
> >"Wow, I'm just like Sisko returning to DS9 in the Defiant! Wheeeeeeee!"
> >:-)
>
> Heh. Or Steve behind the wheel of his car going to the officer: "I
> swear, Ossifer... my motor coordination is malfunctioning. No, no, no...
> it wasn't alcohol, I swear --- ever hear of synthehol?" :)
LOL! "Naw I'm not fitshaced..juss two Romulan ales..."
starcro1
Biomenace wrote in message <365457de...@nntp.bestweb.net>...
>>Like the Tuvix thing (and I'm not trying to start
>>another endless debate on this) if this had happened in the Alpha quadrant
>>she would have had the luxury of getting SF to make the decision - perhaps
>>hearing would have taken place. Without that sort of support she had to
>>make a decision herself, whether one agrees with the decision she made -
at
>>least she made it.
>
>She too could have had a hearing. "The Menagerie" establishes that it
>can be done with a few officers.
>
Yes. A command court-martial can be convened aboard a starship. All you need
are three flag rank officers. "Flag rank* - captain or higher. The only such
officer in the Delta Quadrant is Kathryn Janeway.>
>- Biomenace
>
>Email me at bi0m...@removethis.bestweb.net, not
> the address you see in "from". Thats a spamtrap.
>And note that the 0 is a zero, not an o.
>
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1
>GB/GS!d!sa-C++UP+LE-W++@N+++L-W+OM--V-PS++@PE++Y+PGP-T+++(--)5+++X+R+tv+b++
+DI+D--G-eh+ry+
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Amarna
>
>William Armstrong wrote in message <3654AB...@sympatico.ca>...
>>Ali Andrews wrote:
>>>
>>> TheFlinx wrote in message <01be13d6$386f4d20$25b9cdcf@veritas>...
>>> >Ali Andrews <a...@jupiter23.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
>>> ><731bjb$nqq$2...@plutonium.compulink.co.uk>...
>>> >> Its 14.33 now and I'm just back from lunch but I only had a mineral
>>> water
>>> >> to wash down my curried parsnip soup (dodgy stuff) and uninteresting
>>> >> business talk.
>>> >
>>> >OH MY GOD!
>>> >Curried Parsnip?
>>> >And you people wonder why you lost the empire!
>>>
>>> I thought we lost the Empire because we put tuna, sweetcorn and
>mayonnaise
>>> on baked potatoes.
>>
>>Ugh! :-) That's as bad as the Dutch putting mayo on their fries!
>
>And not only the Dutch - Mayonnaise on Chips (British for Fries) is common
>in Europe and very yummy. Much better than Ketchup.
>
>Allie
>x
Oh God... I feel so sick... I think I'm going to thr....
[Runs from the room.]
-- Amarna
Phillip Dearden
Cisko - 2nd - possibly because he has a more exciting environment in
which to operate.
Picard - 3rd - wooden, just beats Kirk as sets are no longer cardboard.
Kirk - 4th - a hero in his time but that was a (long) while ago.
But I say - GIVE SEVEN A SHIP and send her off to fight the Borg.
pro...@kingston.net wrote:
>
> Dangermouse wrote:
> >
> > Steve Christianson <steve.chr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
> > <3653D8...@worldnet.att.net>...
> > > Dangermouse wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jean Luc Picard, by a long, long way.
> > >
> > > Agreed. With Janeway as second, Kirk a close third and Sisko a
> > > distannnnnnnnnnnnnnnt fourth.
> >
> > I think I'd have to put Sisko and Kirk equally second, and Janeway way
> > behind, having accidentally come of the starting post heading the wrong
> > way.
> >
>
> IMHO MacKenzie Calhoun. Woo Hoo way to kick A$$ Mac. :-)
>
> Beth
Amarna
>Brett-D wrote:
>
>>
>> I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
>> typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
>> their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
>> sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
>
>Derek Jacobi? You dare bring him into this? The actor of the dreadful,
>terrible, supremely awful "I, Claudius"? I think Picard deserves more
>credit than that.
Stewart was absolutely wooden in "I, Claudius." But fortunately he had only a
small part. Derek Jcobi was terrific, and that was one of the reasons the
series was such a huge success.
> Although I think Kirk will always be _the_ captain,
>just as the original Star Trek will never be overtaken,
No, because it was always behind the times.
>I think Picard
>is a worthy successor to Kirk.
-- Amarna
William Armstrong
>
> William Armstrong <william....@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >Brett-D wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
> >> typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
> >> their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
> >> sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
> >
> >Derek Jacobi? You dare bring him into this? The actor of the dreadful,
> >terrible, supremely awful "I, Claudius"? I think Picard deserves more
> >credit than that.
>
> Stewart was absolutely wooden in "I, Claudius." But fortunately he had only a
> small part. Derek Jcobi was terrific, and that was one of the reasons the
> series was such a huge success.
I don't understand how it was a success at all. The book was good, but
the production itself was wooden. The acting was, without exception,
awful. Stewart was bad in it, true, but so was Jacobi. I won't say he
was worse, but it's close. (Stewart's part in "Excalibur" was also not
very good, but then look at the material he had to work with.)
> > Although I think Kirk will always be _the_ captain,
> >just as the original Star Trek will never be overtaken,
>
> No, because it was always behind the times.
If you say so.
William Armstrong
>
> Janeway - 1st - She has a personality and she is original
Original? She's just a female version of the Kirk type of character,
with the exception that she has a high nasally voice and gets no action!
:-)
> Picard - 3rd - wooden, just beats Kirk as sets are no longer cardboard.
The sets do help, but Picard is far from wooden. He's a least more
eloquent than Kirk was.
> Kirk - 4th - a hero in his time but that was a (long) while ago.
Hell, I don't know about you, but the original series was long over
before I was born, but I still dig them. No one can replace Kirk.
> But I say - GIVE SEVEN A SHIP and send her off to fight the Borg.
You complain about Picard being wooden and then suggest Seven be given a
command? Are you INSANE?? :)
Steve Christianson
>
> Brett-D wrote:
>
> >
> > I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
> > typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
> > their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
> > sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
>
> Derek Jacobi? You dare bring him into this? The actor of the dreadful,
> terrible, supremely awful "I, Claudius"?
You're kidding, right? I, Claudius was fantastic.
Amarna
>Amarna wrote:
>>
>> William Armstrong <william....@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >Brett-D wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I have it on good authority that Shatner drinks more Mad Dog 20/20 on a
>> >> typical day before 8 am than all others captains combined have drank in
>> >> their sterile lifetimes. Picard's just some low rent Derek Jacobi that
>> >> sold out to obsessive syndication hounds.
>> >
>> >Derek Jacobi? You dare bring him into this? The actor of the dreadful,
>> >terrible, supremely awful "I, Claudius"? I think Picard deserves more
>> >credit than that.
>>
>> Stewart was absolutely wooden in "I, Claudius." But fortunately he had only a
>> small part. Derek Jcobi was terrific, and that was one of the reasons the
>> series was such a huge success.
>
>I don't understand how it was a success at all.
I think the series was hugely popular and a big success on PBS. True,
popularity does not necessarily indicate quality -- in fact it *usually* does
not. But in this case I think people were reacting to mostly great acting, a
fascinating story with loads of character and intrigue, and spectacle to boot.
>The book was good, but
>the production itself was wooden. The acting was, without exception,
>awful. Stewart was bad in it, true, but so was Jacobi. I won't say he
>was worse, but it's close. (Stewart's part in "Excalibur" was also not
>very good, but then look at the material he had to work with.)
[snip]
-- Amarna
David B.
> > But I say - GIVE SEVEN A SHIP and send her off to fight the Borg.
>
> You complain about Picard being wooden and then suggest Seven be given a
> command? Are you INSANE?? :)
I could make a sexual comment about 7 here but I won't.
Jacob A. Rios
manuver but he also tricked Picard in the war games and saved Picard
from the Ferengi. But the grand daddy of them all he saved the planet
earth from the Borg. Sure Picard put them to sleep but Riker finished
them off. So if Picard is the Best Captain then Will Riker has a little
edge oover his mentor as Captain. Also Riker is the ultimate ladies man.
Have you ever seen an episode were when he met a woman he didn't sleep
with her. My choice for 3rd would be Janeaway Because she a woman and
it's more harder being in another quadrent in charge of all these
people. And still be alive. 4th Sisko because a monkey could be in
charge of a space station and not lose it so many times as Sisko.
Remember when he let it get taken over by only 4 people! Last Kirk
because he broke to many rules.