Jennifer Lien is Gone! GET OVER IT!!
rhaney01
She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
over.
Move on.
Russell
DB
On 25 Jun 1998 21:04:34 GMT, "rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
Gee...you are soooo mean!!! <G>
Gidi Kroon
The accused, "rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com>, is charged with the
possession of illegal thoughts, according to article
<01bda07b$bddada20$47c3...@RHaney01.netcom.com>. I present exhibit A:
>She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
But what if you have none...
>It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
>people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
>over.
The reason she left is that she was fired. And in sci-fi, anything is
possible so nothing is ever over.
--
"You're a powerful little thing, aren't you?"
Paul Foley
"rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
>
>It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
>people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
>over.
>
>Move on.
It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited. Now, there
are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
And this isn't a subject important enough to be given space in this
newsgroup?!!
What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
happened to a real person. Sorry if it takes up space you'd rather devote
to arguing about warp coils and nitpicking the show's technobabble.
No wonder Trekkies have the reputation they do.
Lien has a film career now, doing serious work for an audience that is
able to appreciate fine, nuanced acting.
--Paul
----------------------------------------------------
"We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
--Jennifer Lien, on Kes.
R. Haney
Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<6n3dnl$6...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
> "rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Lien has a film career now, doing serious work...
>
>
> --Paul
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!! Yeah right...
RH
Dangermouse
Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
> Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
> her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
> It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited. Now, there
> are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
Not sexual harrassment - that would be if she was constantly pressured even
after saying no, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Petty bitchiness, yes, sexual harrassment, no...
Paul Foley
"Dangermouse" <mas...@sol.co.ukDEATH-TO-SPAMMERS> wrote:
>
>
>Not sexual harrassment - that would be if she was constantly pressured even
>after saying no, which doesn't seem to be the case.
>
>Petty bitchiness, yes, sexual harrassment, no...
I don't know how the harrassment law reads in Calif., but here in
Massachusetts firing someone, or discriminating against someone,
because she won't put out for / date / kiss the boss's son is
illegal. As it should be anywhere in the civilized world.
Dangermouse
Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> >Not sexual harrassment - that would be if she was constantly pressured
even
> >after saying no, which doesn't seem to be the case.
> >
> >Petty bitchiness, yes, sexual harrassment, no...
>
>
> I don't know how the harrassment law reads in Calif., but here in
> Massachusetts firing someone, or discriminating against someone,
> because she won't put out for / date / kiss the boss's son is
> illegal. As it should be anywhere in the civilized world.
As I said, that's not *the* reason, just *part* of it, along with all the
other problems, so they could easily cover themselves.
Julianna Feigl
Paul Foley wrote:
>
> "Dangermouse" <mas...@sol.co.ukDEATH-TO-SPAMMERS> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Not sexual harrassment - that would be if she was constantly pressured even
> >after saying no, which doesn't seem to be the case.
> >
> >Petty bitchiness, yes, sexual harrassment, no...
>
> I don't know how the harrassment law reads in Calif., but here in
> Massachusetts firing someone, or discriminating against someone,
> because she won't put out for / date / kiss the boss's son is
> illegal. As it should be anywhere in the civilized world.
>
It should be and I am appalled at these facts. On the other hand I am
very happy that Jennifer reacted the way she did - she is a classy
lady. How many actresses *would* have given in and had sex with the
boss's son in the hope of improving their career that way? But she
didn't, she said no, no matter what the consequences - and it takes a
lot of courage to do that. Bravo, Jennifer! (and it serves the spoiled
brat Enberg well that she rejected him!)
Julianna
Julianna Feigl
Paul Foley wrote:
>
> "rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
> >
> >It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
> >people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
> >over.
> >
> >Move on.
>
> Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
> her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
> It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited.
It's one of the most offensive things I've heard of ever.
Now, there
> are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
I bet Jennifer is glad now that she got away from that studio in
time...
> And this isn't a subject important enough to be given space in this
> newsgroup?!!
>
> What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
> happened to a real person. Sorry if it takes up space you'd rather devote
> to arguing about warp coils and nitpicking the show's technobabble.
>
> No wonder Trekkies have the reputation they do.
>
> Lien has a film career now, doing serious work for an audience that is
> able to appreciate fine, nuanced acting.
and nobody deserves that success more than she does!
Julianna
!_daburro
In article <6n3dnl$6...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
-|> "rhaney01" <rhan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
-|>
-|> >She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
-|> >
-|> >It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
-|> >people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
-|> >over.
-|> >
-|> >Move on.
-|>
-|>
-|> It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
-|> Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
-|> her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
-|> It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited. Now, there
-|> are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
-|>
-|> And this isn't a subject important enough to be given space in this
-|> newsgroup?!!
-|>
-|> What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
-|> happened to a real person. Sorry if it takes up space you'd rather devote
-|> to arguing about warp coils and nitpicking the show's technobabble.
-|>
-|> No wonder Trekkies have the reputation they do.
-|>
-|> Lien has a film career now, doing serious work for an audience that is
-|> able to appreciate fine, nuanced acting.
-|>
-|>
-|> --Paul
-|>
-|> ----------------------------------------------------
-|>
-|> "We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
-|>
-|> --Jennifer Lien, on Kes.
-|>
Jennifer WHO???
hehe
***** !_dab...@mindspring.com *****
***** *****
***** daburro stikes again! >; ž *****
redr...@hotmail.com
>
> It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
>
>
> What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> "We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
>
Who gives a cow, Lien wasn't getting the ratings up, amongst other
things. At least the new blond got the ratings up and practically saved
the show from the axe.
Chris
Jeri all the way!
PHiBrOpTyX
>>>>>Who gives a cow, Lien wasn't getting the ratings up, amongst other
things. At least the new blond got the ratings up and practically saved
the show from the axe.
Chris
Jeri all the way!<<<<<
A very intelligent response. And so sensitive too. May you someday find
yourself in unfortunate circumstances as well with no one but yourself to turn
to.
XMacLeodx
>A very intelligent response. And so sensitive too. May you someday find
>yourself in unfortunate circumstances as well with no one but yourself to
>turn
>to.
Oh boy, anothe touchy feely crybaby.
Voyager is a TV show. Viewership creates ratings. Rating bring in
advertising, Advertising is the money that makes all those cool effect
possible. Lien was not bringing in the viewers, and Jeri has. It is a job.
People get fired from jobs every day. So, if you wanna create a support groupe
for Jennifer Lien's failing career, do it somewhere else.
I know I shouldn't have, but you have to admit, it was funny.
!_daßurrð
In article <199807031920...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, phibr...@aol.com (PHiBrOpTyX) wrote:
-|> >>>>>Who gives a cow, Lien wasn't getting the ratings up, amongst other
-|> things. At least the new blond got the ratings up and practically saved
-|> the show from the axe.
-|>
-|>
-|>
-|> Chris
-|> Jeri all the way!<<<<<
-|>
-|> A very intelligent response. And so sensitive too. May you someday find
-|> yourself in unfortunate circumstances as well with no one but yourself to
-|> turn
-|> to.
May you whine incessantly forever you sniveling bed wetter...
Paul Foley
"Dangermouse" <mas...@sol.co.ukDEATH-TO-SPAMMERS> wrote:
[re: Jennifer Lien's being replaced]
>
>As I said, that's not *the* reason, just *part* of it, along with all the
>other problems, so they could easily cover themselves.
>
Okay, let's be clear on one important point. Jennifer Lien was not fired,
her contract was not renewed for the new season. There was nothing sudden
about her departure. This makes me extremely skeptical about all the
rumors of her alleged misbehaviors. The producers did not need to "cover
themselves", nor did they need reasons to "fire" her, since in fact they
did not fire her.
The cast change was made in order to sex up the show. Lien was chosen
as the one to go... why? Who knows? The producers always regarded her
character as peripheral to the show, so she was on the short list along
with Wang and Phillips.
There is no mystery to Lien's being cut from the show. Spreading rumors
about a fine actress who is, by all (on the record!) accounts also a very
sweet person, only reflects badly on those who invent, as well as those
who repeat them.
--Paul
Antony Alonso
Hello Paul Foley, on 05-Jul-98 22:38:16, you said,
>Okay, let's be clear on one important point. Jennifer Lien was not fired,
>her contract was not renewed for the new season. There was nothing sudden
Let me put it to you this way: "contract non-renewal" is equated with
being fired. It's just more of the '80s and '90s Politically Correct
syntax.
>about her departure. This makes me extremely skeptical about all the
>rumors of her alleged misbehaviors. The producers did not need to "cover
>themselves", nor did they need reasons to "fire" her, since in fact they
>did not fire her.
In effect, yes they did. It's obvious you've no clue or background how
the industry works.
>The cast change was made in order to sex up the show. Lien was chosen
>as the one to go... why? Who knows? The producers always regarded her
>character as peripheral to the show, so she was on the short list along
>with Wang and Phillips.
Apparently many factors weighed in, both legitimate and perhaps shady in
nature.
>There is no mystery to Lien's being cut from the show. Spreading rumors
>about a fine actress who is, by all (on the record!) accounts also a very
>sweet person, only reflects badly on those who invent, as well as those
>who repeat them.
So say you; a lot wouldn't agree with this.
> --Paul
*ATTENTION*
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Dangermouse
Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> Okay, let's be clear on one important point. Jennifer Lien was not fired,
> her contract was not renewed for the new season.
She had a five year contract, so it wasn't up for renewal. She was fired.
Go ask Bob or Ethan or any of the others.
(I'm reminded by your post of Richard Arnold's phrases - "she wasn't fired
they just dropped and replaced her")
> There was nothing sudden
> about her departure.
Except that all the cast though Ethan would get it, and Jennifer was only
told when she showed up for work - which means even if there were contract
negotiations going on (which there weren't) she'd have known weeks earlier
that her contract "wasn't getting renewed".
> This makes me extremely skeptical about all the
> rumors of her alleged misbehaviors.
Which generally are false - and in at least one case - created by the
studio themselves. (If you've been following the thread, you'll realise the
only person really getting accused of misbehaving here is Jeri Taylor...)
> The producers did not need to "cover
> themselves", nor did they need reasons to "fire" her, since in fact they
> did not fire her.
Except that they did.
> The cast change was made in order to sex up the show. Lien was chosen
> as the one to go... why?
Basically because they failed to get rid of Garrett and Jeri overruled the
wishes of the others (in particular Ken Biller) who'd rather fire Phillips.
Phillips himself expected to be fired.
Phillip Dearden
redr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >
> > It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
> > Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
> > her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
> > It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited. Now, there
> > are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
> >
> > And this isn't a subject important enough to be given space in this
> > newsgroup?!!
> >
> > What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
> > happened to a real person. Sorry if it takes up space you'd rather devote
> > to arguing about warp coils and nitpicking the show's technobabble.
> >
> > No wonder Trekkies have the reputation they do.
> >
> > Lien has a film career now, doing serious work for an audience that is
> > able to appreciate fine, nuanced acting.
> >
> > --Paul
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > "We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
> >
> > --Jennifer Lien, on Kes.
>
>
> Jeri all the way!
Kes was dull and boring.
Seven is spectacular!
This viewer is very pleased!
redr...@hotmail.com
I totally agree
Yours Sincerely
redr...@hotmail.com
Redruskie Wants to Clarify this Message:
> redr...@hotmail.com did not write that crap below!!!:
> >
> > >
> > > It's curious. A fine actress gets axed in order to replace her with a
> > > Barbie doll in Spandex. The producers screw her over by not telling
> > > her her she's being dropped in time for her to make other career plans.
> > > It's sexist, unprofessional, unfair and mean-spitrited. Now, there
> > > are even allegations of sexual harrassment.
> > >
> > > And this isn't a subject important enough to be given space in this
> > > newsgroup?!!
> > >
> > > What happened to Jennifer Lien is a scandal. This is real, guys, it
> > > happened to a real person. Sorry if it takes up space you'd rather devote
> > > to arguing about warp coils and nitpicking the show's technobabble.
> > >
> > > No wonder Trekkies have the reputation they do.
> > >
> > > Lien has a film career now, doing serious work for an audience that is
> > > able to appreciate fine, nuanced acting.
> > >
> > > --Paul
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > "We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
> > >
> > > --Jennifer Lien, on Kes.
> >
Redruskie WRITES!!!
Redruskie believes Seven is the best thing that hit Voyager, not only in
ratings. Oh, and she can act, she was afterall the best thing on Dark
Skies as well.
Paul Foley
inksl...@FOGsunshine.net (Maureen Goldman) wrote:
>xmac...@aol.com (XMacLeodx) wrote:
>
>> Voyager is a TV show. Viewership creates ratings. Rating bring in
>> advertising, Advertising is the money that makes all those cool effect
>> possible. Lien was not bringing in the viewers, and Jeri has.
>
>member? Positive comments have certainly increased here (not that
>there are any shortage of the other type).
>
After the cast change, ratings did go up significantly. They then
declined to the dismal three-point-somethings where they had been before.
This ratings bubble had as much to do with Paramount's publicity blitz as
anything else... it was reminiscent of the interest generated by
"Voyager's" debut.
I also suspect that the adolescent boys of all ages who tuned in to see
Jeri Ryan in shrink-wrap Spandex got tired of ogling her, and moved on.
Anyone remember back when "Baywatch" was a ratings sensation?
To all those who find Jeri Ryan an improvement, I wish you joy. To each
his own. Just don't try to convince me that the attraction is her acting
ability!
I miss Lien's subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her
endless variety of expression. Her complexity. Some people find that
kind of thing "boring". I pity you.
I don't pose as an expert on actors. So let me quote someone who was:
"Good actors know how to express a mood or intention with the
slightest gesture or change of expression."
--Alfred Hitchcock
That's Jennifer Lien all over.
For once, Trek had a female character who wasn't a babe or a
mother-figure or an androgyne. For once, they got it right.
--Paul
Steve Christianson
Paul Foley wrote:
>
> After the cast change, ratings did go up significantly. They then
> declined to the dismal three-point-somethings where they had been before.
What about the shows that focus specifically on Seven of Nine: are their
ratings so lackluster? I'm just curious: when you say that the ratings
declined to where they were previously you didn't distinguish between
those episodes in the last season that emphasized Seven and those that
didn't.
>
> This ratings bubble had as much to do with Paramount's publicity blitz as
> anything else... it was reminiscent of the interest generated by
> "Voyager's" debut.
>
> I also suspect that the adolescent boys of all ages who tuned in to see
> Jeri Ryan in shrink-wrap Spandex got tired of ogling her, and moved on.
The cynic in me says since when do guys get tired of looking at women in
spandex. Voyager's poor writing is more likely the culprit in the
ratings game.
> Anyone remember back when "Baywatch" was a ratings sensation?
>
> To all those who find Jeri Ryan an improvement, I wish you joy. To each
> his own. Just don't try to convince me that the attraction is her acting
> ability!
I agree that she still has to prove her mettle as an actress by showing
more range than Borg-disdain-for-all-things-human, but she does fit the
Seven part nicely.
>
> I miss Lien's subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her
> endless variety of expression. Her complexity. Some people find that
> kind of thing "boring". I pity you.
I'm sorry, no flame intended, but you're implying a certain depth I must
have missed. Seriously, other than "Doctor here's the hypospray" and
"Captain, hydroponics is off-line"...what? (OK, the time-shifting
episode that was a prelude to Year of Hell was decent)
PHiBrOpTyX
>>>>Have the ratings gone up significantly since Ryan became a cast
member? Positive comments have certainly increased here (not that
there are any shortage of the other type).
Subject: Re: Jennifer Lien is Gone! GET OVER IT!!
Path:
lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!ais.net!ja
mie!news.indiana.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!paralynx!news.mindlink.net!paral
ynx-2!not-for-mail
From: inksl...@FOGsunshine.net (Maureen Goldman)<<<<
Only sporadically. Most of the time it is still only three to four million
people a week watching.
Chris
subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her endless variety of expression. Her complexity
undoubtedly better in both looks and acting talent, and has attracted more positive attention to the
show, starring in a myriad of well known and respected magazines, something no other Voyager cast
member has had the ability to do.
On a similar tone, could we drop the petty Ryan calls (eg. Barbie doll in Spandex), if anything,
it's you Lien supporters who are in the wrongs, stirring up malacious, unfounded rumours
(ie.allegations of sexual harrassment ) and attacking a perfectly innocent employee of Paramount for
being both beautiful and talented.
As stated by Xmacleodx
"People get fired from jobs every day. So, if you wanna create a support group
Chris (Redr...@hotmail.com)
Jeri all the way!!
BTW:
That Phillip Dearden, I dunno what he did, but I did not make that message which he states I did.
Dangermouse
Chris <redr...@hotmail.com> wrote
> it's you Lien supporters who are in the wrongs, stirring up malacious,
unfounded rumours
> (ie.allegations of sexual harrassment ) and attacking a perfectly
innocent employee of Paramount for
> being both beautiful and talented.
I haven't seen any criticisms of Jeri Ryan. Of TPTB for wanting a blonde
bombshell, yes, but not of Ryan. Even before she actually appeared I was
pointing out that she could act and was the best thing in Dark Skies.
And the original plan was to fire Garrett anyway - which would have meant
we'd have both Lien and Ryan - surely a much better proposition...
sharon m homer-drummond
On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Maureen Goldman wrote:
> xmac...@aol.com (XMacLeodx) wrote:
>
> > Voyager is a TV show. Viewership creates ratings. Rating bring in
> > advertising, Advertising is the money that makes all those cool effect
> > possible. Lien was not bringing in the viewers, and Jeri has.
>
> Have the ratings gone up significantly since Ryan became a cast
> member? Positive comments have certainly increased here (not that
> there are any shortage of the other type).
>
>
The current claim is a 15%-20% jump, which if true, is a very significant
increase. I'm not sure how accurate that figure is - it's about 7 months
old, and came from Marketing Management mag. which was quoting a Paramount
source.
homerdru
PHiBrOpTyX
increase. I'm not sure how accurate that figure is - it's about 7 months
old, and came from Marketing Management mag. which was quoting a Paramount
source.
homerdru<<<<
Are you talking about ratings? According to the Nielsens, ratings are just as
low as they ever were. Approxiamtely three to four million people a week tune
in to watch this pathetic travesty.
Admiral Asimov
I agree!!
Admiral Asimov
Chris <redr...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<35A1FF69...@hotmail.com>...
> The arguements most of you Lien supporters are offering are pretty
lame, such as ' I miss Lien's
> subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her endless variety of
expression. Her complexity
> '. Give me a break PLEASE! Where do you people come up with this type of
emotional crap. Jeri Ryan is
> undoubtedly better in both looks and acting talent, and has attracted
more positive attention to the
> show, starring in a myriad of well known and respected magazines,
something no other Voyager cast
> member has had the ability to do.
> On a similar tone, could we drop the petty Ryan calls (eg. Barbie
doll in Spandex), if anything,
> it's you Lien supporters who are in the wrongs, stirring up malacious,
unfounded rumours
> (ie.allegations of sexual harrassment ) and attacking a perfectly
innocent employee of Paramount for
> being both beautiful and talented.
Paul Foley
>Paul Foley wrote:
>> I miss Lien's subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her
>> endless variety of expression. Her complexity. Some people find that
>> kind of thing "boring". I pity you.
>
>I'm sorry, no flame intended, but you're implying a certain depth I must
>have missed. Seriously, other than "Doctor here's the hypospray" and
>"Captain, hydroponics is off-line"...what? (OK, the time-shifting
>episode that was a prelude to Year of Hell was decent)
"Paturition", the scene in sickbay: Kes goes from boiling angry to rather
pleased with herself as the doctor explains how flattering it may be to
be the object of (Paris' and Neelix's) jealousy. A delightful scene, and
difficult to act too-- transitioning from one emotion to another, pacing
it just right, making it convincing.
"Elogium": Kes positively aches to have a baby, capturing that (to men)
puzzling, mysterious drive that women can have. She was mean to Neelix
and selfish-- breaking the mold that the character could so easily have
been trapped within (nice, sweet, kind Kes... with teeth!)
"Warlord": Shakespeare's Richard III in elf makeup. What more can I
say?
I could go on and on. I'd love to, it's one of my favorite pastimes,
looking closely at this superbly gifted actress' work. Check out her
final scene with Kate Mulgrew in "The Gift"....
Paul Foley
>
>
>Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
>> Okay, let's be clear on one important point. Jennifer Lien was not fired,
>> her contract was not renewed for the new season.
>She had a five year contract, so it wasn't up for renewal. She was fired.
>Go ask Bob or Ethan or any of the others.
I would be unheard of for a production company to guarantee a new cast
five year's employment. Never happens, period. The producers always
allow them flexibility in retooling the show, and cast changes are
normally expected.
There may be long-term contracts, yes, but they involve tying the actors
to the show, not the other way around. Actors NEVER are given job
security. Certainly not the relatively unknown actors in Voyager's cast.
What actors do get is lots of money. And, in TV, a job for the season.
Look at all the shows that have been re-cast: "Ellen", "The Naked
Truth".... Producers always give themselves room for this kind of thing.
Contracts often get re-negotiated. "Seinfeld." "Friends."
My point is that there is no conspiracy, no mystery about why Lien was
cut from Voyager. Berman et.al. wanted someone with bigger tits on the
show. That's scandalous enough for me.
--Paul
Dangermouse
Paul Foley <paul...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> My point is that there is no conspiracy, no mystery about why Lien was
> cut from Voyager. Berman et.al. wanted someone with bigger tits on the
> show. That's scandalous enough for me.
Oh, there's no doubt that Berman wanted someone with bigger tits. But he
wanted her in place of Garrett. When that failed, Brannon and Biller wanted
her in place of Phillips.
Nobody's suggesting that from the start there was a conspiracy to replace
Jennifer before picking someone else - but that there are... irregularities
in how they came to choose he to be the one replaced by Seven. (which
largely boils down to Jeri Taylor not liking her)
sharon m homer-drummond
No, not Nielsens. It's what's sometimes called a "market watch" increase,
meaning that advertisers rate it on the basis of increased sales or
interest attributable to the watchers of a specific time block or show.
Buuuutttt, these are old figures too. Six months is too long, and I prob.
should have kept my mouth (fingers?) shut.
Chad or Laura Kreutzer
Steve Christianson wrote in message
<6ns7te$b...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>Paul Foley wrote:
>>
>> I miss Lien's subtlety, her delicately nuanced emotional range, her
>> endless variety of expression. Her complexity. Some people find that
>> kind of thing "boring". I pity you.
>
>I'm sorry, no flame intended, but you're implying a certain depth I must
>have missed. Seriously, other than "Doctor here's the hypospray" and
>"Captain, hydroponics is off-line"...what? (OK, the time-shifting
>episode that was a prelude to Year of Hell was decent)
I agree. I found her character very lacking. She was beautiful and I can't
say her acting was bad, but the writing for her character... YUCK! I was
relieved when she was finally put out of my misery.
Laura
Paul Foley
>>I'm sorry, no flame intended, but you're implying a certain depth I must
>>have missed. Seriously, other than "Doctor here's the hypospray" and
>>"Captain, hydroponics is off-line"...what? (OK, the time-shifting
>>episode that was a prelude to Year of Hell was decent)
>
>I agree. I found her character very lacking. She was beautiful and I can't
>say her acting was bad, but the writing for her character... YUCK! I was
>relieved when she was finally put out of my misery.
>
>Laura
You have a point about the writing. For Kes's character and in general.
It's the weakest thing about the show.
Still, I was talking about Lien's acting; if anything, the fact that she
did so much with mediocre material reinforces my point. She can do a lot
with a little.
Remember "Warlord"? She could have vamped her way through that episode.
Instead, she made some remarkable bold choices, and succeeded in pulling
them off. One scene in particular: Kes/Tieran has a wife, who is
disconcerted that her warlord husband has returned to her in the form of
a petite young woman. Kes goes to her and says, "What's the matter, you
don't look happy." Although Lien delivers the line straight, like she's
sincerely concerned, her manner, her body language, is threatening. The
character she's playing... there's something nearly obscene about him
expressing concern. Lien works the tension between what she's saying and
her manner. It's almost as if what she means is, "what are you whining
about now?!" She's playing the asshole husband to perfection, someone
who's very moments of tenderness bespeak abuse.
Remarkable, in a 22 year old actress!
--Paul
Loni007
> his own. Just don't try to convince me that the attraction is her acting
> ability!
I agree that she still has to prove her mettle as an actress by showing
more range than Borg-disdain-for-all-things-human, but she does fit the
Seven part nicely.>>
She came on as a Borg - no emotions. I have found that as her character
developes I see those emotions show in her. It's a subtlety. IMHO
Loni
Paul Foley
Jeri Ryan isn't a bad actress by any means. She's an entirely competent
actress... who was given the part because of her looks. As Robert
Picardo said, she's a babe who can act.
And certainly I agree that she's not just clanking around saying "You
will be assimmilated!" any more. (Thank God!) I don't agree that there's
anything subtle about this change... or about her character, or her
acting for that matter.
She's the kind of actress who has mastered half a dozen or so basic
emotions, and plugs them in as needed by the script. Does he ever
interpret the script imaginatively? No. Thoughtfully? Not really. She
goes with the most obvious reading of the script. Always. Bringing
nothing of her own to it.
I don't think she has the acting tools to do any more.
As for "fitting the Seven part nicely"-- who couldn't do the part? She's
playing a semi-automaton, cold and stilted. It's a simple part, easy,
like playing a drunk or a crazy person.
She's no Jennifer Lien.
--Paul
PHiBrOpTyX
As for "fitting the Seven part nicely"-- who couldn't do the part? She's
playing a semi-automaton, cold and stilted. It's a simple part, easy,
like playing a drunk or a crazy person.
She's no Jennifer Lien.
--Paul<<<<<<
Ain't it the truth. It was Jeri Taylor who screwed up the Kes character. Jen
did the best she could with what little those incompetent writers gave her.
Joe & Debby Traywick
Paul Foley wrote in message <6p698m$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>As for "fitting the Seven part nicely"-- who couldn't do the part? She's
>playing a semi-automaton, cold and stilted. It's a simple part, easy,
>like playing a drunk or a crazy person.
>
>She's no Jennifer Lien.
It's not as easy as you think acting with no emotions...It takes a lot of
skill to keep all emotions off your face...I know...I've got 4 kids...When
one of them does something that I find amusing but that is wrong...I have a
hell of a time not laughing while they are in the room...
I'm glad Kes is gone...Now I thought she had no acting ability...
Debby
---
Resistance if futile
You will be assimilated
Thank you and have a nice day :-)
Antony Alonso
>Ryan's portrayal shows someone who is thinking about her situation and
>who is trying not to show emotions (particularly not warring
>emotions). It is similar to the way that Nimoy portrayed Spock.
Agreed. That's what made her smile in "Hope and Fear" all that more
special. It's a *rare* thing :)
>Nothing against Lien, but she was given few opportunities to
>demonstrate her acting skills. "Warlord" was her best showcase. In
>"Elogium", she just seemed a stereotyped over-the-top crazy. Most
>episodes featured Kes talking in an oh-so-calm voice.
New-agism practiced everyday :)
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Paul Foley
>Nothing against Lien, but she was given few opportunities to
>demonstrate her acting skills. "Warlord" was her best showcase. In
>"Elogium", she just seemed a stereotyped over-the-top crazy. Most
>episodes featured Kes talking in an oh-so-calm voice.
I agree with your sentiment, but not with your examples. "Elogium" had
one of the finest scenes I've ever seen: Neelix is expressing his
reluctance to father a child-- right now, anyway-- and characteristically
tries to make light of the situation, with a joke about "having to watch
the little tyke all the time, or he'd be putting his fingers into a power
conduit or something." Kes explodes at him. "That's right, Neelix, it's
called being a parent!" she spits at him.
What's interesting is that Lien could have played that scene any number
of ways. She could have played it calmly, or pleadingly. She chose to
punch the line very hard, exploiting the audience's shock at hearing the
dovelike Kes turn nasty (and it was nasty of her: after all, Neelix is
within his rights for being reluctant to have a child, just as she is
within her rights to be eager for one.)
I really liked "Warlord". She plays Shakespeare's "Richard III", in elf
make-up, and manages to pull it off. I found it interesting though that
a common reaction was "hey... who knew she could act?", as if in playing
Kes she was just being herself (she was not... see the quote at the
bottom of this post!)
Despite the fun of all the fireworks in "Warlord", I liked best her
quiet, thoughtful scenes. Like her final scene with Janeway in "The
Gift". That oh-so-calm voice could be oh so expressive.
--Paul
---------------------------------------------------
"We're both blondes, and she's a fictional alien."
--Jennifer Lien, when asked to compare herself and Kes
jared...@gmail.com
> She's gone. It's over. Get on with your lives.
>
> It's a reality of life. Some people get fired from their jobs, and some
> people leave jobs on their own. For what ever reason she left... It's
> over.
>
> Move on.
>
> Russell
Ok