J.T. Kirk meeting DaVinci
Wockawocka
When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
Can someone give me the old episode name.
Jim
Dwight Williams
Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
"Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
> When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
> Can someone give me the old episode name.
I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
know no such episode was ever filmed.
The Chronology and Encyclopedia note that Kirk has two additional tours as
CO of the Starships Enterprise to his credit(between movies 1 and 2 and
movies 5 and 6)...so perhaps *that* adventure falls into one of those
"blank-slate" timeframes.
Heck, "Trials and Tribble-ations" hints at 10-11 additional time travel
incidents he was embroiled in, while we're at it...
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
David W. Lillard
The episode was 76 "Requiem for Methuselah." The man Kirk, Spck and
McCoy meet was named Flint and was a immortal human who had lived many
lifetimes. His Identities included Solomon, Alexandar, Lazarus,
Methuselah, Johannes Brahms, and yes, DaVinci.
Although I did get pissed over Janeway knocking Kirk over it. Not to
mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
Jeff Mair
ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams) wrote:
>Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
>"Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
>> When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
>> Can someone give me the old episode name.
>I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
>know no such episode was ever filmed.
<snip>
Actually it was in an episode called Requiem For Methuselah. Kirk met
an immortal man from earth's past who lived as Leonardo DaVinci, and
several other famous historical figures.
Jeff Mair
wjm...@greynet.net
Nelson Lu
In article <347D44...@mail.oeonline.com>,
David W. Lillard <zar...@mail.oeonline.com> wrote:
>Although I did get pissed over Janeway knocking Kirk over it. Not to
>mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
>She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
Uh, the implication that I see from her quote is that it's possible that
*Flint* lied. And yes, I've seen "Requiem for Methuselah" many times; I see
no reason to believe that Flint was definitely telling the truth. Note that
Kirk and Spock were also somewhat skeptical of Flint's story in the episode.
And some of the things that Flint claimed in the episode can't really
possibly be true; in the case of Solomon, for example, how would he get a
chance to swap identities with a prince?
Eric Fickas
David W. Lillard wrote:
Canada
>
> The episode was 76 "Requiem for Methuselah." The man Kirk, Spck and
> McCoy meet was named Flint and was a immortal human who had lived many
> lifetimes. His Identities included Solomon, Alexandar, Lazarus,
> Methuselah, Johannes Brahms, and yes, DaVinci.
>
> mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
> She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
I think what was being called into question was whether Flint was really
Da Vinci, not whether Kirk had met Flint.
Eric
Plain and Simple Cronan
Dwight Williams wrote:
>
> I wish one *could* be given.
So do I. And wishes do come true
Requim for Methuselah
Great ep.
Joyce Harmon
In article <347E07...@execpc.com>, esfi...@execpc.com says...
>
>David W. Lillard wrote:
>Canada
>>
>> mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
>> She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
>
>I think what was being called into question was whether Flint was really
>Da Vinci, not whether Kirk had met Flint.
Now, it's been a long time since I've seen Requiem For Methusalah, but as I
recall the ending, the character Flint has lost whatever 'immortality' he
had by leaving earth and was going to live out a normal life span and die on
that planet. I also seem to recall that Kirk and company decided either not
to make a report on Flint and his past, or to make the report classified, so
that the man would not be overwhelmed with curiosity seekers in his last
years.
So any report that got out about Kirk meeting Da Vinci would have been an
uncomfirmed rumor floating around the fleet, and it would make sense for
Janeway to 'doubt the veracity' of the report. She wasn't calling either
Kirk or Spock liars, but questioning the validity of what sounds like a
crazy rumor.
The original poster, who says that Janeway is calling members of the landing
party liars, sounds like one of these Janeway bashers who are always going
to put the worse possible interpretation on everything Janeway does.
Joyce
Theflinx
Nelson Lu <n...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> wrote in article
<65ktei$78g$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>...
> In article <347D44...@mail.oeonline.com>,
> David W. Lillard <zar...@mail.oeonline.com> wrote:
>
> >Although I did get pissed over Janeway knocking Kirk over it. Not to
> >mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
> >She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
>
> Uh, the implication that I see from her quote is that it's possible that
> *Flint* lied. And yes, I've seen "Requiem for Methuselah" many times; I
see
> no reason to believe that Flint was definitely telling the truth. Note
that
> Kirk and Spock were also somewhat skeptical of Flint's story in the
episode.
Maybe if you saw it a few more times you'd remember that it was Spock who
first recognized Flint's work as that of DaVinci
Plain and Simple Cronan
Joyce Harmon wrote:
>
> The original poster, who says that Janeway is calling members of the landing
> party liars, sounds like one of these Janeway bashers who are always going
> to put the worse possible interpretation on everything Janeway does.
>
> Joyce
That would require there be a reasonable *good* interpretation of
anything Janeway has done.
The only reasonable one I have heard is a high ranking mysogynist at
Paramount. My guess is Cartman had a sex change.
P&SC
When Cartman grew up he became Jeri Taylor
cole...@ma.ultranet.com
In article <65l6o0$sae$1...@kronos.crosslink.net>,
jlha...@crosslink.net (Joyce Harmon) wrote:
>
> In article <347E07...@execpc.com>, esfi...@execpc.com says...
> >
> >David W. Lillard wrote:
> >Canada
> >>
> >> mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
> >> She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
> >
> >Da Vinci, not whether Kirk had met Flint.
> So any report that got out about Kirk meeting Da Vinci would have been an
> uncomfirmed rumor floating around the fleet, and it would make sense for
> Janeway to 'doubt the veracity' of the report. She wasn't calling either
> Kirk or Spock liars, but questioning the validity of what sounds like a
> crazy rumor.
>
> The original poster, who says that Janeway is calling members of the landing
> party liars, sounds like one of these Janeway bashers who are always going
> to put the worse possible interpretation on everything Janeway does.
>
> Joyce
Generally speaking, the Starfleet Captain who found both Amelia Earhart
and the descendants of Dinosaurs space traveling over 75,000 light years
from Earth probably shouldn't be doubting the veracity of any other
landing party's reports. After all, this is Starfleet and weird stuff is
part of the job. And, it is Jim Kirk, who in any case had a fascinating
Starfleet career.
Chris
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Joyce Harmon
In article <8806968...@dejanews.com>, cole...@ma.ultranet.com says...
Once *again*, Chris, if the meeting with Da Vinci was either classified or
not included in the official Enterprise reports, then Janeway would not be
'doubting the veracity' of a landing's party's *reports*, but doubting a
*rumor* about what the landing party had seen, since the information would
not be in the official records.
But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe that Janeway was calling
Kirk and Spock liars, go ahead - no skin off my nose.
Joyce
Timo S Saloniemi
>>Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
>>"Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
>>> When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
>>> Can someone give me the old episode name.
>Actually it was in an episode called Requiem For Methuselah. Kirk met
>an immortal man from earth's past who lived as Leonardo DaVinci, and
>several other famous historical figures.
This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
was originally named Flint in ancient Mesopotamia. He then became
DaVinci, Alexander (apparently the Great, and not one or the Russian
czars?), Brahms (originally, it was to be Beethoven, but the character
was supposed to have composed a waltz, something Beethoven never bothered
to do!) etc.
I'd LOVE to get a reference to DaVinci's immortality in Voyager. But
one has to remember that this is not the "real" DaVinci of the Trek
universe we are seeing - this is just a holo-character written by
some 24th century playwright who probably never bothered to read
Kirk's report on the mission to Mr Brack's home planet (Holmberg
something-or-other). Did Kirk's logs and diaries ever become
public bestsellers? Do the average Earthlings know that Brahms
was DaVinci was Alexander, or that Apollo was an alien, or that
transparent aluminum was invented by a time loop?
Timo Saloniemi
.
.
Todd
On 28 Nov 1997 11:03:36 GMT, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi)
wrote:
>This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
BRACK?!! I don't remember anything about a "Brack"... anyone else?
Todd
May all the harvesters rot in prison.
To reply, delete ".alpha" from the address above.
James K Nelsen
Todd (tbol...@netonecom.alpha.net) wrote:
: On 28 Nov 1997 11:03:36 GMT, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi)
: wrote:
:
: >This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
:
: BRACK?!! I don't remember anything about a "Brack"... anyone else?
Uhura said that the planet was owned by a "Mr. Brack." There is also
a reference to this in the novel "Federation."
--
Jim Nelsen ___,
Secondary Education _.-'` __|__
Social Studies/History Major .' ,-:` \;',`'-,
University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee / .'-;_,; ':-;_,'.
/ /; '/ , _`.-\
| | '`. (` /` ` \`|
| |:. `\`-. \_ / |
Visit my web page to look at | | ( `, .`\ ;'|
my "Virtual Teaching Portfolio" \ \ | .' `-'/
and find some useful sites for \ `. ;/ .'
social studies teachers. '._ `'-._____.-'`
`-.____|
www.uwm.edu/~jnelsen _____|_____
/___________\
Steve Wirick
In article <347ef270...@news.netonecom.net>,
tbol...@netonecom.alpha.net (Todd) wrote:
> On 28 Nov 1997 11:03:36 GMT, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi)
> wrote:
>
> >This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
>
> BRACK?!! I don't remember anything about a "Brack"... anyone else?
Dum-de-dum-dum!!! Its the BRACK show!!!
George Dainis
On Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:34:51 GMT, tbol...@netonecom.alpha.net (Todd)
wrote:
>On 28 Nov 1997 11:03:36 GMT, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi)
>wrote:
>
>>This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
>
>BRACK?!! I don't remember anything about a "Brack"... anyone else?
>
>
>
Best bet is this is someone who has read a novel or a story treatment
of the episode, rather than seen the TOS episode.
In the episode, he was called Flint.
George
=================================
Remove ".blocked" for email reply
=================================
Andrew Black
Dwight Williams wrote:
> Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
>
> "Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
> > When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
> > Can someone give me the old episode name.
>
> I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
> know no such episode was ever filmed.
>
> The Chronology and Encyclopedia note that Kirk has two additional tours as
> CO of the Starships Enterprise to his credit(between movies 1 and 2 and
> movies 5 and 6)...so perhaps *that* adventure falls into one of those
> "blank-slate" timeframes.
>
> Heck, "Trials and Tribble-ations" hints at 10-11 additional time travel
> incidents he was embroiled in, while we're at it...
> --
> Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
I thought that the guy name Flint in "Requiem for Metuselah " was at one time
DaVinci. Remember he was immortal and he had numerous identies during his life
time.
David
Dwight Williams wrote:
>
> Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
>
> "Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
> > When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
> > Can someone give me the old episode name.
>
> I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
> know no such episode was ever filmed.
>
We saw Kirk meet an immortal man (Flint) that claimed to be many
historical figures in "Requiem for Matusaleh". For some reason the
Encyclopedia omits Flint being Da Vinci.
David
Nelson Lu wrote:
>
> In article <347D44...@mail.oeonline.com>,
> David W. Lillard <zar...@mail.oeonline.com> wrote:
>
> >mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
> >She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
>
> *Flint* lied. And yes, I've seen "Requiem for Methuselah" many times; I see
> no reason to believe that Flint was definitely telling the truth. Note that
> Kirk and Spock were also somewhat skeptical of Flint's story in the episode.
>
> possibly be true; in the case of Solomon, for example, how would he get a
> chance to swap identities with a prince?
His father sure would've noticed. We should be skeptical of Mr. Flint's
claims.
David
Todd wrote:
>
> On 28 Nov 1997 11:03:36 GMT, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S Saloniemi)
> wrote:
>
> >This guy, who at the time of the episode went by the name Mr Brack,
>
> BRACK?!! I don't remember anything about a "Brack"... anyone else?
>
>
> May all the harvesters rot in prison.
> To reply, delete ".alpha" from the address above.
Brack bought the planet. It was called Brack's planet. Brack was
probably Flint.
cole...@ma.ultranet.com
In article <65lqgq$25i$1...@kronos.crosslink.net>,
jlha...@crosslink.net (Joyce Harmon) wrote:
Hi, Joyce:
Take a deep breath, count to ten. What I'm trying to say is that a
starfleet captain sees enough weird stuff in his or her career to make
any story about someone else's career easy enough to believe. If there
is only a bit of a rumor, fine. How she heard about the meeting is
really irrelevant to what I'm saying. Kirk meeting daVinci is still
certainly no more unbelieveable than Janeway's Amelia Earhart or dinosaur
adventures. Not to mention Picard and crew helping out at the launch of
the Phoenix or Sisko actually becoming a historic figure (Gabriel Bell?)
in 21th century San Francisco. I'd imagine that the woman who avoids
time travel the way that one of us may avoid running a United way pledge
campaign would have more of an "It could happen" attitude about this
stuff. It might be that Janeway really doubts a rumor she heard about a
hundred year old adventure. But, I really would rather have seen a "that
reminds me of an adventure I once had".
That's what makes me feel better. Starfleet captains accepting this
weird stuff as Status Quo.
Dwight Williams
Andrew Black (abl...@netsitesys.com) writes:
> Dwight Williams wrote:
>
>> Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
>>
>> "Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
>> > When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
>> > Can someone give me the old episode name.
>>
>> I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
>> know no such episode was ever filmed.
>>
>> The Chronology and Encyclopedia note that Kirk has two additional tours as
>> CO of the Starships Enterprise to his credit(between movies 1 and 2 and
>> movies 5 and 6)...so perhaps *that* adventure falls into one of those
>> "blank-slate" timeframes.
>>
>> Heck, "Trials and Tribble-ations" hints at 10-11 additional time travel
>> incidents he was embroiled in, while we're at it...
>
> I thought that the guy name Flint in "Requiem for Metuselah " was at one time
> DaVinci. Remember he was immortal and he had numerous identies during his life
> time.
And I do believe that I noted the correction of my mistake earlier on in
another thread...so I trust the correctional e-mail will soon cease?
Cliff Pooley
Let's face it, anyone who sounds like they have inhaled helium cannot be
taken seriously!
Joyce Harmon <jlha...@crosslink.net> wrote in article
> In article..
GeneK
Yes. Kirk calls up to the Enterprise for info on the planet, and Uhura
tells him
that the planet is recorded as belonging to a "Mr. Brack." that's the
entire
reference, no further mention of it in the episode, and I've seen airings
of the
episode in which that entire scene is cut and probably replaced by a
commercial
for toilet bowl cleanser.
Gene
starcro1
GeneK <gene@genek_hates_spammers.com> wrote in article
<3480C5E8.ED593337@genek_hates_spammers.com>...
In the last season of "Star Trek," Kirk, Spock and McCoy encountered an
immortal human named Flint. Originally a Roman Centurion, Flint was
immortal by a genetic anomaly. To preserve his privacy, he would travel
from culture to culture, and periodically fake his own death and adopt new
identities. As he grew older and picked up new skills and wisdom, some of
Flint's lives became well-known. Flint was Leonardo DaVinci, and Johannes
Brahms, and Vincent Van Gogh, etc. When Kirk encountered Flint on a faraway
planet, he was centuries old. McCoy diagnosed that Flint had sacrificed his
immortality when he left the complex magnetic fields of Earth. The doctor
said Flint would live out the rest of a normal human lifetime, then die.
Spock remarked, "On that day, I shall mourn."
Todd
On 30 Nov 1997 06:07:59 GMT, "starcro1" <star...@gte.net> wrote:
Yes, yes... I remember the episode quite well. I just didn't remember
the part about "Brack." I guess Uhura said something about it though.
>In the last season of "Star Trek," Kirk, Spock and McCoy encountered an
>immortal human named Flint. Originally a Roman Centurion, Flint was
>immortal by a genetic anomaly. To preserve his privacy, he would travel
>from culture to culture, and periodically fake his own death and adopt new
>identities. As he grew older and picked up new skills and wisdom, some of
>Flint's lives became well-known. Flint was Leonardo DaVinci, and Johannes
>Brahms, and Vincent Van Gogh, etc. When Kirk encountered Flint on a faraway
>planet, he was centuries old. McCoy diagnosed that Flint had sacrificed his
>immortality when he left the complex magnetic fields of Earth. The doctor
>said Flint would live out the rest of a normal human lifetime, then die.
>Spock remarked, "On that day, I shall mourn."
May all the harvesters rot in prison.
David Stinson
In article <65kmcc$i...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams) wrote:
:
:Re: the VOY episode "Concerning Flight"...
:
:"Wockawocka" (jsi...@concentric.net) writes:
:> When did James T. Kirk meet DaVinci?
:> Can someone give me the old episode name.
:
:I wish one *could* be given. Alas, 'tis not to be...because as far as I
:know no such episode was ever filmed.
Flint admits to being Da Vinci, when Spock notices that the painting in
his salon is in Da Vinci's style on modern materials.
--
David A. Stinson Home E-mail: dsti...@ix.netcomz.com or
Remove the 'z' for mail dast...@zaol.com
Web: http://www.procom.com/~daves/index.html
"No electrons were harmed in the production of this message"
David Loewe, Jr.
On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 17:50:57 -0600, Eric Fickas <esfi...@execpc.com>
commanded the electrons to form this message:
>David W. Lillard wrote:
>Canada
>>
>> The episode was 76 "Requiem for Methuselah." The man Kirk, Spck and
>> McCoy meet was named Flint and was a immortal human who had lived many
>> lifetimes. His Identities included Solomon, Alexandar, Lazarus,
>> Methuselah, Johannes Brahms, and yes, DaVinci.
>>
>> Although I did get pissed over Janeway knocking Kirk over it. Not to
>> mention who would call a Vulcan a liar, after all Spock was there too.
>> She pretty much called the entire landing party liars. Little bitch.
>
>I think what was being called into question was whether Flint was really
>Da Vinci, not whether Kirk had met Flint.
In 'Requiem For Methuselah', Spock IDs a painting in 'Flint's'
collection as an authentic, unknown DaVinci, but (I believe) far newer
than common sense would allow.
--
"He can't even run his own life, I'll be damned if he'll run mine."
Jonathan Edwards
Désirée
In article <348116b4...@news.netonecom.net>,
tbol...@netonecom.alpha.net (Todd) wrote:
-> On 30 Nov 1997 06:07:59 GMT, "starcro1" <star...@gte.net> wrote:
->
-> Yes, yes... I remember the episode quite well. I just didn't remember
-> the part about "Brack." I guess Uhura said something about it though.
->
-> >In the last season of "Star Trek," Kirk, Spock and McCoy encountered an
-> >immortal human named Flint. Originally a Roman Centurion, Flint was
-> >immortal by a genetic anomaly. To preserve his privacy, he would travel
-> >from culture to culture, and periodically fake his own death and adopt new
-> >identities. As he grew older and picked up new skills and wisdom, some of
-> >Flint's lives became well-known. Flint was Leonardo DaVinci, and Johannes
-> >Brahms, and Vincent Van Gogh, etc. When Kirk encountered Flint on a faraway
-> >planet, he was centuries old. McCoy diagnosed that Flint had sacrificed his
-> >immortality when he left the complex magnetic fields of Earth. The doctor
-> >said Flint would live out the rest of a normal human lifetime, then die.
-> >Spock remarked, "On that day, I shall mourn."
->
->
->
-> May all the harvesters rot in prison.
-> To reply, delete ".alpha" from the address above.
The "Brack" reference is one of the syndication cuts. Remember, sydicated
shows have 2 minutes more of commercials per 1/2 hour, which means the
network-versions of Trek are cut by 4 minutes before airing in syndication.
Unfortunately, the only remedy to this is to buy the official tapes from
Paramount. I just wish they would be more efficient with them and put 6
eps per tape instead of just 2.
Désirée
David
Todd wrote:
>
> On 30 Nov 1997 06:07:59 GMT, "starcro1" <star...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> Yes, yes... I remember the episode quite well. I just didn't remember
>
That has been edited out by some stations to make time for more
comercials.
Todd
On Wed, 03 Dec 1997 20:09:00 -0800, David <both...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I saw the orignal episode when it first aired. I saw them all. Of
course, I was pretty young so I don't remember every detail of the
original broadcasts. So you're probably right - that's the reason I
didn't know about it.
Thanks.
Todd
May all the harvesters rot in prison.