Gene Roddenberry, on Gays and Star Trek
Tool Packin' Mama
see more of shipboard life [including] gay crew members in day-to-day
circumstances."
[Gene Roddenberry, to The Advocate, 1991]
"My attitude toward homosexuality has changed. I came to the conclusion
that I was wrong. I was never someone who hunted down "fags" as we used
to call them on the street. I would, sometimes, say something
anti-homosexual off the top of my head because it was thought, in those
days, to be funny. I never really deeply believed those comments, but I
gave the impression of being thoughtless in these areas. I have, over
many years, changed my attitude about gay men and women." Gene
Roddenberry, to The Humanist, 1991
[From http://www.philosophysphere.com/humanist.html <-- Full interview]
<< In 1987, veteran Trek writer David Gerrold (author of the original
episode The Trouble with Tribbles) accompanied Gene Roddenberry to a
Star Trek convention in Boston where Roddenberry was asked by some gay
Trek fans if there would be a gay character on The Next Generation.
Roddenberry answered in the affirmative and subsequently brought the
idea up in a staff meeting, reportedly responding to some initial
resistance with the statement "Times have changed and we have got to be
aware of it". Since TNG was a syndicated show, and Paramount had given
Roddenberry the freedom to do whatever he wanted to do, the road seemed
clear. Gerrold developed a story called Blood and Fire that featured a
gay male couple and infectious alien creatures called bloodworms that
were an allegory for AIDS. Roddenberry and the writing staff loved the
story, and Gerrold went on a vacation. What happened when he returned is
described as follows in Star Trek The Next Generation: The Continuing
Mission:
"[Gerold] found that his script was in disfavor. The idealism of
Roddenberry's initial intentions to push the limits of television
story-telling had hit the wall of business concerns. Much of the change
in perception of the script resulted from Paramount's concern that
because the series was syndicated, in some markets it might air in the
afternoon when younger viewers would be part of the audience. Thus the
studio had to weigh the mandate to produce provocative, issues-oriented
episodes against the possible reaction of parents who might not want
their children to see issues they felt were more suited to adult
programing hours.
Though Gerrold fought for his script and it was slated for production,
he also understood his responsibilities as a professional writer under
contract to the series. Thus, he followed the producers' notes to revise
the script by dropping the gay characters.
Though the revised script was not as powerful as the first, more and
more revisions followed. While in television it is not unusual to have
ten or more rounds of revisions on a script, eventually Gerrold's script
was dropped from the production schedule." >>
[From http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/trek.html]
"I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
relationships." Gene Roddenberry
[From Gene Roddenberry; The Last Conversation (by Yvonne Fern, 1994)]
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0520088425/107-6930241-6153356
<-- buy it
Also see: "Sexual Diversity in Star Trek"
http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/idic.doc
--
Laura Goodwin
"Don't follow the crowd: fifty thousand lemmings can be wrong."
Tieus Albert
> "[Gerold] found that his script was in disfavor. The idealism of
> Roddenberry's initial intentions to push the limits of television
> story-telling had hit the wall of business concerns.
DAMMIT!!!! If they had just waited a few more years before starting
TNG, his script may have been accepted.
I think I would have been a bigger fan of the show if only....
Able Spacer Kelly
Tool Packin' Mama <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:3C6C48F6...@lauragoodwin.org...
>
>
<Snip>
>
> --
> Laura Goodwin
>
> "Don't follow the crowd: fifty thousand lemmings can be wrong."
>
Kelly
Able Spacer Kelly
Tieus Albert <tieus_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4f9df8f8.02021...@posting.google.com...
I wouldn't have cared much either way, if it wasn't shoved in our faces, ALA
Ellen.
Kelly
Tool Packin' Mama
> > "Don't follow the crowd: fifty thousand lemmings can be wrong."
> Yeah, but don't get in their way either.
Yes. The pitter-patter of tens of thousands of fuzzy little lemmings
trampling all over your body can give you such a TICKLE.
KingBob
> see more of shipboard life [including] gay crew members in day-to-day
> circumstances."
And your reason for posting this old news yet again, other than to further
promote your own agenda is???
Jason Dean
--
"Hey kid, way to be back at your desk"
- Leo McGarry, Isaac & Ishmael
"KingBob" <king...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c6d09bb$0$13726$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
: > "In the fifth season [of Star Trek: The Next Generation] viewers
:
:
Graham Kennedy
Remember when Trek used to set trends, rather than
follow them?
--
Graham Kennedy
Author, Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
Tool Packin' Mama
> Remember when Trek used to set trends, rather than
> follow them?
Remember when Trek was edgy and dangerous?
Graham Kennedy
The good old days...
WickeddollŽ
Natalie
ANIM8Rfsk
And well written?
And watchable?
And defensible?
*******
QWest Arizona service has deteriorated to the point where
criminal action should be taken against the company officers
Tool Packin' Mama
>
> Interesting. Thanks. Now if only the current regime were so enlightened...
You said it!
Tieus Albert
I'm glad she posted this, but since it contains admissions from Gene
Roddenberry that, back in the day, he was a bit homophobic, it kinda
undermines her infamous theories about Kirk and Spock.
Robert Casey
Able Spacer Kelly
Tool Packin' Mama <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:3C6CA75E...@lauragoodwin.org...
They have been known to knock over buildings.
BTW, it's often closer to a million.
Actually, I was extending the analogy. If the whole world thinks one way and
you think another, you had best keep your views to yourself, or at least be
very careful how you express them. Just ask Martin Luther, Gallelio,
Socrates, etc.
This does not make them right, it's just that discretion is the better part
of valor.
I like the quote though.
Kelly
Paul H.
<snip>
> "I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
> must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
> relationships." Gene Roddenberry
And this is evidence of what? Utter confusion over one's own sexual
identity? If homosexuality was not true to Roddenberry's nature, why should
he be "sorry" about never having had such a relationship? I'm sure there
are many gays who are not "sorry" they've never had a heterosexual
relationship.
And why should the "joys, pleasures, and degrees of closeness" be any
different in heterosexual relationships?
> Laura Goodwin
>
> "Don't follow the crowd: fifty thousand lemmings can be wrong."
Exactly. And right now the lemmings are literally climbing over each other
to jump into the Ocean of Complete Gay Acceptance, so if you want to run
against the flow of your rodent horde, be anti-gay! And speaking of labels:
Isn't it interesting how so many who rejoice in calling others "homophobes"
never brand themselves "homophiles"? Such behaviour is common IMHO because
rhetoric, not reason, always seems to win the day, particularly among the
so-called artistic community. Real intellectual analysis and debate are
difficult and it's always easier to substitute labels and meaningless catch
phrases for honest thinking.
So buck the trends! Rush back into the burning building! Try to jump your
car over the broken bridge! Put your head underwater and breathe deeply!
After all, 50,000 lemmings can be wrong and you might just be the one
*special* person who will survive.
Tool Packin' Mama
> > "I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
> > must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
> > relationships." Gene Roddenberry
>
> And this is evidence of what? Utter confusion over one's own sexual
> identity? If homosexuality was not true to Roddenberry's nature, why should
> he be "sorry" about never having had such a relationship? I'm sure there
> are many gays who are not "sorry" they've never had a heterosexual
> relationship.
>
> And why should the "joys, pleasures, and degrees of closeness" be any
> different in heterosexual relationships?
How should *I* know? Ask Gene what he meant by it.
KingBob
> Roddenberry that, back in the day, he was a bit homophobic, it kinda
> undermines her infamous theories about Kirk and Spock.
Precisely. It was perhaps an interesting read the first couple of times I
saw this posted - but IMHO it doesn't get an more pertinent with repeated
bombardments, just more irritating...
Laura has some problems I'm afraid, if I had to name one I would say
"homo-mania", she's just a little too fascinated with homosexuality, an
observation which, whilst being totally objective, will no doubt make me a
"homophobe" in her eyes and those of her little gang of followers ;-)
Tyralak
>Rear admirals in Star Trek?.....
>
>
>
Well, Starfleet IS based in San Francisco, after all....... :)
--
Tyralak,
Supreme Commander Of The Imperial Romulan Warbird, Psionax
[END SUBSPACE TRANSMISSION]
- To e-mail, remove NOSPAM
Tyralak
You might have a bit of trouble doing that at this point. :)
James Ascher
news:3C6D86FF...@ix.netcom.com...
> Rear admirals in Star Trek?.....
That what top lieutenants are for!
James
Jason Dean
--
"Hey kid, way to be back at your desk"
- Leo McGarry, Isaac & Ishmael
"Tyralak" <NOSPAMjac...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C6DB9A6...@earthlink.net...
: Tool Packin' Mama wrote:
:
: >"Paul H." wrote:
: >
: >>"Tool Packin' Mama" <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote
: >How should *I* know? Ask Gene what he meant by it.
PROMETHEUS
"Tool Packin' Mama" <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote
"...I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
relationships..." Gene Roddenberry
========
Source of the above 'quote' ? I'll bet there is none.
PROMETHEUS
"Tool Packin' Mama" <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:3C6DA0DF...@lauragoodwin.org...
=======
Lame, dumb-ass answer.
Ask Gene? He's, uh, dead.
Remember, it was just a TV show. A 60s TV show. Like Gilligan's Island, Room
222, Laugh In, Bewitched, etc.
PUFF
PROMETHEUS
She doesn't have the foggiest notion of male friendship, assuming that pals
are always 'gay'. Her attitude is similar to that of clueless young japanese
girls, who imagine some sort of "pure masculine love".
Brad Filippone
: > I'm glad she posted this, but since it contains admissions from Gene
When has laura ever expressed such beliefs? In exactly what way is she
"too fascinated" with homosexuality? Unless you're referring to her
parodies which are harmless fun.
Brad
Greg Sinclair
about right.
i'm wa-a-a-y to tired to worry about who sleeps with who(m) and all that.
i don't need to hear about it all the time though. (ps: this has nothing to
do with what tool packin' mama finds fun to write about.)
because buddy what's his name (gerrold?) has an agenda....star trek should
have an agenda too??? whatever. (i'm guessing that kirk/spock love affairs
weren't a part of it.)
my guess is that by the time of star trek, they'll have lobotomized
homosexuality off the face of the galaxy!!! lol!
Michael Rogers
> =======
>
> Lame, dumb-ass answer.
>
> Ask Gene? He's, uh, dead.
>
> Remember, it was just a TV show. A 60s TV show. Like Gilligan's Island, Room
> 222, Laugh In, Bewitched, etc.
Well, break out the champagne, he's back! The moron that Geekishly
nicknames himself after a mythical Titan is back!
What happened? Did your mom give you back the computer after you
finally brought her to a proper orgasm?
What a microscopic life you must have, reciting this fucking ABC style
information to us about TV shows.
AS IF it matters. As if you are imparting important, new information,
you little shit stain. How deranged can you be?
I know you live and die by the boob tube or you wouldn't even care about
this but don't freak when some decide to have fun with a looking at a TV
show BEYOND THE OBVIOUS(it's not good for your "condition").
It ain't that big a deal, only an idiot would make a big deal out of it.
An idiot that feels he has to protect Star Trek from those that "defile"
it.
On the other hand, just keep up this goose stepping, mouth breathing,
Star Trek/TV NAZI BULLSHIT as long as it gives your pathetic life the
little meaning it has and you'll know that there will always be someone
there to read and laugh their ass off at you.
Keep the freak show fresh though... be a little more clever and original
and less rote and predictable.
Star Trek's counting on you, remember? BWWAAAAHAAAHHAAHHAAA!!!!
P.S. By the way, you're still never gonna get Laura, so stop yer half
ass brain damaged flirtin' with her. Hope you had a Happy Valentine's
Day PUFFhead.
Led4acs
> "homo-mania", she's just a little too fascinated with homosexuality, an
> observation which, whilst being totally objective, will no doubt make me a
> "homophobe" in her eyes and those of her little gang of followers ;-)
=======
She doesn't have the foggiest notion of male friendship, assuming that pals
are always 'gay'. Her attitude is similar to that of clueless young japanese
girls, who imagine some sort of "pure masculine love".
>>>>>>>>>>>
Sounds like you didnt get laid much in Japan did you?
PROMETHEUS
"Brad Filippone" <al...@chebucto.ns.ca> wrote in message
news:a4km9k$mef$1...@News.Dal.Ca...
======
Brad the EUNUCH continues to lick Laura's cunt. (He so desperately wishes
that he could!)
PROMETHEUS
Well, break out the champagne, he's back! The hero that accuratelly
nicknames himself after a mythical Titan is back!
=====
That's better!
=====
What happened? Did your mom give you back the computer after you
finally brought her to a proper orgasm?
=====
You live in the basement, dweeb, not me.
======
What a microscopic life you must have, reciting this fucking ABC style
information to us about TV shows.
======
It might help if you and others like you got it through yer thick skulls.
Most of you are totally UNAWARE of real world constraints that TV show
producers must overcome. Kirk is not spared from various perils because of
his "undying love for Spock, who must always be at his side", as Goodwin
always puts it, but because he's the star of the bloody show and has to come
back the next week to kick ass, flirt with women, meddle in other planets'
affairs and emerge a hero at the end!
=====
AS IF it matters. As if you are imparting important, new information,
you little shit stain. How deranged can you be?
=====
It's new to 99% of you. Your comments prove it. Yer baseless CONJECTURES are
laughable.
It matters because clueless geeks like you actually think that TV producers
are concerned about the miniscule audience component that is made up of
Trekkie geeks and twerps. Paramount wants a mass market and will never cater
to your absurd notions.
=====
I know you live and die by the boob tube or you wouldn't even care about
this but don't freak when some decide to have fun with a looking at a TV
show BEYOND THE OBVIOUS (it's not good for your "condition").
=====
Nope. I live in Japan and don't watch much TV.
=====
It ain't that big a deal, only an idiot would make a big deal out of it.
An idiot that feels he has to protect Star Trek from those that "defile"
it.
=====
Nope. You people make up bullshit. Many of you state that STAR TREK writers,
directors, actors and producers DELIBERATELY included subtle references
(nudge, nudge, wink, wink) to faggotry. These 'clues' are only discernable
to those of you who, 30 years later, are somehow blessed with amazing powers
of perception that the average fan does not posess.
======
On the other hand, just keep up this goose stepping, mouth breathing,
Star Trek/TV NAZI BULLSHIT as long as it gives your pathetic life the
little meaning it has and you'll know that there will always be someone
there to read and laugh their ass off at you.
=====
I've been a fan since the first telecast, punk. Don't tell me what to do,
you little nerd.
=====
Keep the freak show fresh though... be a little more clever and original
and less rote and predictable.
=====
You people need to be sledghammered since you won't accept the obvious.
=====
Star Trek's counting on you, remember? BWWAAAAHAAAHHAAHHAAA!!!!
P.S. By the way, you're still never gonna get Laura, so stop yer half
ass brain damaged flirtin' with her. Hope you had a Happy Valentine's
Day PUFFhead.
=====
Wrong again. My personal life has nothing to do with absurd "newsgroups',
unlike you lost neurotic shlumps. You people actually are demented for
thinking that Laura will ever get near you. She's a fraud and a coward.
Tool Packin' Mama
For those who don't know what the shouting is about, be sure to visit
Silly Star Trek Obsession, for the famous Laura Goodwin deconstruction
of "Pure Masculine Love". Caution: adult content. Caution: humor
content. Caution: intellectual content. Oh, heck, just stay away!
Silly Star Trek Obsession - Immature adults only, please!
http://lauragoodwin.org/tos.html
--
KingBob
> that he could!)
I shan't comment on Brad or Laura in this context, but that particular Latin
delicacy is considered by many to be the "Breakfast of Champions" :-)
Tool Packin' Mama
:::applause:::
Andy Lisle
> Interesting. Thanks. Now if only the current regime were so enlightened...
>
> Natalie
Enlightened might be just as out of reach as creative. I'd be happy if the
current regime were simply competent.
Tool Packin' Mama
I like you, Andy.
Graeme
script may have been accepted.
I think I would have been a bigger fan of the show if only....
>>
If they'd waited a few more years, Gene probably wouldn't have been involved at
all. His mind and health were already starting to go in 1987.
Graeme
Ellen.
Kelly
>>
Take a look at Symbiosis (i.e. "Golly gee, why would anybody want to do drugs?"
"Well, I hope you never find out Wesley, you wonderful kid, you."), and tell me
if you think they'd have handled this very well.
On the other hand, with Gerrold writing the script, it would have had a
fighting chance.
Andy Lisle
> "My attitude toward homosexuality has changed. I came to the conclusion
> that I was wrong. I was never someone who hunted down "fags" as we used
> to call them on the street. I would, sometimes, say something
> anti-homosexual off the top of my head because it was thought, in those
> days, to be funny. I never really deeply believed those comments, but I
> gave the impression of being thoughtless in these areas. I have, over
> many years, changed my attitude about gay men and women." Gene
> Roddenberry, to The Humanist, 1991
>
> [From http://www.philosophysphere.com/humanist.html <-- Full interview]
<snip>
> "I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
> must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
> relationships." Gene Roddenberry
>
> [From Gene Roddenberry; The Last Conversation (by Yvonne Fern, 1994)]
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0520088425/107-6930241-6153356
> <-- buy it
I appreciate your contribution on this topic, Laura. The article from the
Humanist was very interesting and enlightening. I have heard Roddenberry
before on many of these topics but I think he was more open and generous
here than elsewhere. Ms. Fern did a good job on her book and it is a good
insight into the man.
I wonder if you know if there is another source for the statements made in
the quote from the Advocate or the promises alluded to on the dsinclair
site? I'm not disputing that the statements were made, but I ask because I
have been forced to discount many of the claims made by the Advocate over
the years, as they have often been as reliable as the Weekly World News.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Brad Filippone
Andy Lisle
Aww shucks, ma'am.
:::digs toe into the sand:::
I like you, too. Anyone who can write a Kirk page like you did is A #1 with me. :
)
Tool Packin' Mama
> I wonder if you know if there is another source for the statements made in
> the quote from the Advocate or the promises alluded to on the dsinclair
> site?
No, sorry, but if you find any let me know, please.
Tool Packin' Mama
>
> Tool Packin' Mama wrote:
> > I like you, Andy.
>
> Aww shucks, ma'am.
> :::digs toe into the sand:::
> I like you, too. Anyone who can write a Kirk page like you did is A #1 with me. :)
Well! It appears we have ourselves a little mutual admiration society.
:)
Your Laura
janeway
"KingBob" <king...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c6db5ec$0$17049$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > I'm glad she posted this, but since it contains admissions from Gene
> > Roddenberry that, back in the day, he was a bit homophobic, it kinda
> > undermines her infamous theories about Kirk and Spock.
>
> Precisely. It was perhaps an interesting read the first couple of times I
> saw this posted - but IMHO it doesn't get an more pertinent with repeated
> bombardments, just more irritating...
So why do you keep reading it?
--
"The truth is dangerous, so we put our prophets in prison."
Charles Manson
"Smart and crazy. That's a hell of a pair."
Det. Lennie Briscoe (Jerry Orbach), Law & Order
+
PROMETHEUS
"Led4acs wrote:
"...Sounds like you didnt get laid much in Japan did you?..."
=========
You've got yer tenses confused, boy.
KingBob
Thank you for the confirmation, yes, you are an idiot!
T Berk
As long as we're talking oysters and not snails, I'm all for it.
Life is mostley good, be thankful and encourage the good.
As for On Topic: Can we hope things will level out re: recognition of
differing minorities? (I'm a member of more than one btw.) I don't feel
minor, but still consider access to be a major obstacle.
TBerk
Tool Packin' Mama
> As for On Topic: Can we hope things will level out re: recognition of
> differing minorities? (I'm a member of more than one btw.) I don't feel
> minor, but still consider access to be a major obstacle.
That was part of the Star Trek dream, and it's still my dream as well.
Some progress has been made, so I think there is reason for optimism.
Greg Sinclair
"T Berk"
>
>
>
> As long as we're talking oysters and not snails, I'm all for it.
>
that's got to win the day money prize for "most obscure reference."
but, since we're talking about it, i'll go a step further.
the oysters and snails thing comes from the one of the "lost scenes" in the
recent re-release of "spartacus." my trivia question is this:
The audio for this scene was lost over the years. Lawrence Olivier had
since died, and was unavailable to redub his lines. Who's voice was used to
supply Crassus' voice in the restored version of the scene?
Your prize? The URL to a penis enlargement site. (a rare thing to be sure.)
Led4acs
"...Sounds like you didnt get laid much in Japan did you?..."
=========
Dikla wrote
You've got yer tenses confused, boy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Didn't, don't, and won't.
Kweeg
> > So why do you keep reading it?
>
> Thank you for the confirmation, yes, you are an idiot!
Sounds like a bad case of the pot calling the kettle grimy arse...
QaPla'
Kweeg
PROMETHEUS
"Tool Packin' Mama" <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote in message
news:3C6FDDA2...@lauragoodwin.org...
=======
S&M freaks are not members of an "oppressed minority". They are just
neurotic fatties looking for a club, any club, to join. Desperate loners and
losers.
PROMETHEUS
"Led4acs" <led...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020217173535...@mb-cj.aol.com...
I live here now, dumb-ass. Did, do and will. Meanwhile, you chumps live in
your parents' basements.
You are mostly small town geeks without a life. A big social event for you
is going to the mall, playing video games, and speaking a worthless form of
the English language. You morons are racists, dweebs and clueless when it
comes to knowledge of the real world.
Andy Lisle
> "T Berk"
> >
> >
> >
> > As long as we're talking oysters and not snails, I'm all for it.
> >
>
> that's got to win the day money prize for "most obscure reference."
>
> but, since we're talking about it, i'll go a step further.
>
> the oysters and snails thing comes from the one of the "lost scenes" in the
> recent re-release of "spartacus." my trivia question is this:
>
> The audio for this scene was lost over the years. Lawrence Olivier had
> since died, and was unavailable to redub his lines. Who's voice was used to
> supply Crassus' voice in the restored version of the scene?
Augh! It's one of my favorite movies and was just on TNT. I gotta get it on
DVD now! I know the audio had been replaced in the scene, but I never knew who
dubbed the voices. Ya stumped this band. Congrats.
> Your prize? The URL to a penis enlargement site. (a rare thing to be sure.)
ROFL!
Andy Lisle
It is heartening to see a Trek fan's respect and appreciation for others and
their lifestyle which you do not share. Your dedication to and appreciation for
IDIC is indeed evidence that Trek values are alive and well in the B&B Trek
universe. Q'plah Prometheus!
T Berk
Hah! 8])
Just how many do you know, any way?
It's always good to hear from personal experience. Continue please.
TBerk
T Berk
I already deleted that link as spam. (Get yer filth fingers out of My
Inbox, Thankyouverymuuuch). :])
Lets see..... Maybe I can do this without Google or IMDB.....
Argh, without an internet lookup of _some_ sort I am left to watching
the movie (VHS restored letterbox ver).
By the time I finished I would be standing on my chair and yelling "
~I~ am Spartacus!" and forget to answer the question.
I'll have to capitulate, you win.
Well, to bring it back around to On Topic-ness; I wonder how Kirk
Douglas would have faired in Star Trek?
TBerk
PROMETHEUS
"Andy Lisle" <ali...@wizards.net> wrote > It is heartening to see a Trek
fan's respect and appreciation for others and
> their lifestyle which you do not share. Your dedication to and
appreciation for
> IDIC is indeed evidence that Trek values are alive and well in the B&B
Trek
> universe. Q'plah Prometheus!
>
Q'plooey my hairy ass. You people are liars and bullshitters. I know what
Trek was about. You mis-represent it!
UP YERS!!
Michael Rogers
PROMETHEUS wrote:
> ======
> It might help if you and others like you got it through yer thick skulls.
> Most of you are totally UNAWARE of real world constraints that TV show
> producers must overcome.
Listen to this bullshit!!!!
Listen to this fucking lump tell us what producers must overcome. You
don't have a fucking clue what producers go through. You don't have a
fucking license to lecture about this shit AT ALL, unless you are
producing a successful television show, Loon.
Unless you are Gene Roddenberry reincarnated, or Larry Gelbert, or
Norman Lear or some other writer/producer with a track record you are a
worthless, armchair expert about the entertainment industry that has no
business telling anyone ANYTHING about how to interpret a show.
You make Rex Reed and Rona Barrett look like fucking geniuses. You make
Mr. Blackwell look like a relevant, cogent fashion commentator.
You are a frustrated little shit who thinks he can do everything better
but HAS DONE NOTHING!!! Except be a nuisance.
If you are such a fucking expert about the entertainment industry, stop
jerkin' off, get off the computer, get your head out of your ass and
show us all how it's done prick! Being an out a work actor doesn't
count!
Let's see if you can write about ANYTHING ELSE besides pimply geeks that
live in the basement (You write about them so much I think you are hot
for them all. You wanna get in their basement, don't you?).
Make that show that'll topple "Friends" numb nuts. Let's see you
navigate those "real world constraints" that producers must overcome
because you're such a fucking expert on that shit, aren't you?
Talk is cheap and you'll all talk. I WANNA SEE YOUR NAME ON A TV SHOW
CREDIT ROLL GODDAMNIT!!! MAKE ME PROUD BUDDY!!!
You fucking, worthless, full of nothing but hot air, so full of shit
your eyes are brown FRAUD!!!!
> Nope. You people make up bullshit. Many of you state that STAR TREK writers,
> directors, actors and producers DELIBERATELY included subtle references
> (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) to faggotry. These 'clues' are only discernable
> to those of you who, 30 years later, are somehow blessed with amazing powers
> of perception that the average fan does not posess.
I don't say that but I don't care when someone else does. THAT is what
makes you a sick freak.
> I've been a fan since the first telecast, punk. Don't tell me what to do,
> you little nerd.
You say that as if it means something. Big fucking deal, you sat your
fat ass down to watch a TV show in 1966, BRAVO. I wasn't even breathing
yet in 1966, so I guess my shot at greatness has past. Hail to you...
you who actually had the bravery, the intelligence, to plop your carcass
in front of the boob tube and tune in NBC. Now you are the fucking,
incontrovertible, authority on Star Trek.
> Wrong again. My personal life has nothing to do with absurd "newsgroups',
It has everything to do with it. It proves you have no personal life.
It proves that you have WAAAAYYY to much time on your hands,
so you take unimportant bullshit and make it your cause. And since it's
so important, you can be as nasty and anti-social as you wish you could
be in real life but don't have the guts.
Kweeg
who cares, this thing -prometheus- exists just to piss people off.....don't
feed the troll
QaPla'
Kweeg
Andy Lisle
> "Andy Lisle" <ali...@wizards.net> wrote > It is heartening to see a Trek
> fan's respect and appreciation for others and
> > their lifestyle which you do not share. Your dedication to and
> appreciation for
> > IDIC is indeed evidence that Trek values are alive and well in the B&B
> Trek
> > universe. Q'plah Prometheus!
> >
> .......
>
> Q'plooey my hairy ass.
Hey, you better quit fantasizing in public like that or people will know
you're gay.
> You people are liars and bullshitters.
Really? How so? What about celebrating or at least appreciating Infinite
Differences in Infinite Combinations (IDIC) is a lie? What about respect for
others is bullshit? What about Star Trek engenders or validates your
recriminations and abusive language?
> I know what Trek was about. You mis-represent it!
So you "know what Trek was about" and none of us do. Please enlighten us, oh
great Trek guru.
> UP YERS!!
Again, I warn you to hold back on public admissions that demonstrate your
sexual preferences. Unless of course you are ready to come out of the
closet.
Andy Lisle
> Well, to bring it back around to On Topic-ness; I wonder how Kirk
> Douglas would have faired in Star Trek?
Douglas was a great actor before his stroke. He may still be, but I haven't seen
him in anything yet. He would have been wonderful in any of the Trek series.
KingBob
Thank you for your unoriginal input, dickhead! Give us a yell when you
think of something for yourself for a change, regurgitating someone else's
witticism certainly elevates you to the enviable level of moron, eh?
KingBob
off.....don't
> feed the troll
Now, what was that about pots and kettles???
specom
> > I'm glad she posted this, but since it contains admissions from Gene
> > Roddenberry that, back in the day, he was a bit homophobic, it kinda
> > undermines her infamous theories about Kirk and Spock.
>
> Precisely. It was perhaps an interesting read the first couple of times I
> saw this posted - but IMHO it doesn't get an more pertinent with repeated
> bombardments, just more irritating...
>
> "homo-mania", she's just a little too fascinated with homosexuality, an
> observation which, whilst being totally objective, will no doubt make me a
> "homophobe" in her eyes and those of her little gang of followers ;-)
Just out of curiousity,have you ever been to her website? I don't
think you'd be too puzzled over why she gets so worked up over guys
getting boned in the ass if you did.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I could have convinced more slaves that they were slaves, I could
have freed thousands more. --Harriet Tubman
KingBob
> > "homo-mania", she's just a little too fascinated with homosexuality, an
> > observation which, whilst being totally objective, will no doubt make me
a
> > "homophobe" in her eyes and those of her little gang of followers ;-)
>
> Just out of curiousity,have you ever been to her website? I don't
> think you'd be too puzzled over why she gets so worked up over guys
> getting boned in the ass if you did.
The "why" is her issue to sort out, and that won't happen whilst she feels
compelled to repost the same unsubstantiated Roddenberry (mis)quotes ad
nausem in this group, and is applauded for doing so by those who know no
better I'm afraid.
ConnMoore
>From: "Greg Sinclair" greg...@telusplanet.net
>
>The audio for this scene was lost over the years. Lawrence Olivier had
>since died, and was unavailable to redub his lines. Who's voice was used to
>supply Crassus' voice in the restored version of the scene?
>
>Your prize? The URL to a penis enlargement site. (a rare thing to be sure.)
>
Not to jump in here..and I REALLY dont want the prize. But it was Anthony
Hopkins that dubbed the voice in for the re-issue.
Graeme
>>Really? How so? What about celebrating or at least appreciating Infinite
Differences in Infinite Combinations (IDIC) is a lie? What about respect for
others is bullshit? What about Star Trek engenders or validates your
recriminations and abusive language?
>>
You're arguing with a troll and a self-confessed liar, who last year got caught
making up facts about K/S, citing Gene Roddenberry's bio as a source for things
where it actually said the opposite of what he claimed, and when called it,
admitted that he had lied, and got angry that someone had bothered to check his
facts.
But to answer your question seriously, what's a lie about IDIC is that it's a
contradiction in terms, and therefore quite unworthy of a race claiming to be
even care about, much less base it's philosophy on logic.
Nothing wrong with respect for other ideas. But infinite respect for an
infinite number of ideas leads one towards embracing both halves of a
contradiction, which is clearly impossible.
To give you a real world example, you say you support the idea of tolerance
toward other ideas. Do you *also* support the idea of NO tolerance toward
other ideas?
Be careful how you answer, because either way, you're screwed. If you say yes,
you do support the idea of no tolerance, then of course you don't support
infinite tolerance. But if you say no, you DON'T support the idea of no
tolerance, then you're screwed just the same. You've excluded an idea, and
again repudiated the idea of infinite tolerance.
The word "infinite" is what reduces IDIC from being a serious philosophy to one
of illogic and buzzwords. Accepting everything infinitely requires you to
believe both A and Not-A simultaneously, which is illogical.
Greg Sinclair
"ConnMoore" wrote:
> Not to jump in here..and I REALLY dont want the prize. But it was Anthony
> Hopkins that dubbed the voice in for the re-issue.
DING! DING! DING! DING!
we have a winner!!!!
anthony's a great mimic. (just don't let him eat your liver.)
ps: TBerk: yup, i had no problem picturing kirk douglas in the federation
getup. then i had a bunch of fun picturing other golden agers as guest
stars... bogie doing a "caine mutiny" type of thing (ala william windon in
"the doomsday machine").... edward g. robinson as a scheming romulan....
david bowie as "the empath" i mean, come on! the thing writes itself!
Tool Packin' Mama
>
> The word "infinite" is what reduces IDIC from being a serious philosophy to one
> of illogic and buzzwords. Accepting everything infinitely requires you to
> believe both A and Not-A simultaneously, which is illogical.
I don't believe that IDIC as you define it is canon. In "Is There In
Truth No Beauty" there are a couple of lines about it that do not reduce
it to a simple four word catch-phrase. I believe IDIC as you present it
is fanon, at best, not canon.
Graeme
>>I don't believe that IDIC as you define it is canon. In "Is There In Truth
No Beauty" there are a couple of lines about it that do not reduce it to a
simple four word catch-phrase. I believe IDIC as you present it is fanon, at
best, not canon.
>>
You're right. In fact, I think we went through this recently. Thanks to
Nimoy's refusal to play the scene as written, there is no explicit reference in
the episode to say exactly what IDIC means except that it's a Vulcan
philosophy. As I said a while back, it could mean "I Did It Crosslegged", for
all we know. As far as I know, there is to this day, no canon reference
explaining what IDIC stands for.
The acronym "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" came from fan
literature, and things Gene said (all non-canon, of course), and from books and
reference works published since then (also non-canon). The only onscreen
reference to "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" in all of Trekdom
that I'm aware of is in the animated episode "The Infinite Vulcan", by Walter
Koenig. And since the animated series is also considerered non-canon by
Paramount, that doesn't count either.
So technically, the "canon" reason that we can't accept IDIC is because we
don't know what it means. (though if it means "I Did It Crosslegged", maybe it
is worth looking at after all).
Tool Packin' Mama
>
> So technically, the "canon" reason that we can't accept IDIC is because we
> don't know what it means. (though if it means "I Did It Crosslegged", maybe it
> is worth looking at after all).
LOL "crosslegged" LOL
PROMETHEUS
"Graeme" wrote:
> Andy Lisle wrote:
> >>Really? How so? What about celebrating or at least appreciating
Infinite
> Differences in Infinite Combinations (IDIC) is a lie? What about respect
for
> others is bullshit? What about Star Trek engenders or validates your
> recriminations and abusive language?
> >>
>
> You're arguing with a troll and a self-confessed liar, who last year got
caught
> making up facts about K/S, citing Gene Roddenberry's bio as a source for
things
> where it actually said the opposite of what he claimed, and when called
it,
> admitted that he had lied, and got angry that someone had bothered to
check his
> facts.
Wrong. My quotes were accurate. I confess only to the fact that you are a
TOTAL LIAR and EUNUCH. I admit only that you morons are geeks who need a
life, real bad. I also admit that Goodwin is a piece-of-shit LIAR who
invents and misrepresents all sorts of Trek stuff.
Angry? Hardly! You chumps are the ones who get all riled up about TREK. This
"newsgroup" is a fucking joke and always has been. IDIC is not a philosophy.
It's fictional MUMBO-FUCKING-JUMBO that only nerds like you believe in.
And some chump, who fails ALL of his acting auditions, claims that I have to
be a PRODUCER in order to express any opinions about TREK. Is he a nut-case,
or what? Looks like he'll be 53 before they give him a SAG card.
My abusive language is totally necessary, since morons like you actually
believe that there is such a thing as IDIC in the real world.
PUFF
ANIM8Rfsk
literature >>
Didn't it in fact come from the Lincoln Enterprises catalog? Non canon, but
from the Roddenberrys, not the fans.
*******
QWest Arizona service has deteriorated to the point where
criminal action should be taken against the company officers
BIG ONE
> must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
> relationships..." Gene Roddenberry
> ========
well so much 4 u'r hetro 'male' role model
Andy Lisle
are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and gray or
green skin. How come?
ANIM8Rfsk
are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and gray or
green skin. How come? >>
We've seen close enough in Enterprise (of course, that's not really Trek)
And isn't there a grey amongst the spectators at Starfleet at the end of 4?
Patrick Lee
<ali...@wizards.net> wrote:
Because after we discovered warp drive and torpedoes, we went over to their
home planet and blew up those anal-probing motherf---ers! :)
Greg Sinclair
"Patrick Lee"wrote:
> Because after we discovered warp drive and torpedoes, we went over to
their
> home planet and blew up those anal-probing motherf---ers! :)
damn straight! let's see those wimps on TNG do THAT!
Tyralak
Good thing too! My ass is STILL sore!..... um... er... nevermind.... :)
--
Tyralak,
Supreme Commander Of The Imperial Romulan Warbird, Psionax
[END SUBSPACE TRANSMISSION]
- To e-mail, remove NOSPAM
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>Why haven't we ever seen a species in Trek that looks like the aliens that
>are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and gray or
>green skin. How come?
Because Star Trek is about science, not superstition. So naturally
they do not wish to encourage irrational beliefs such as that in UFOs.
Glote Lebed
Andy Lisle wrote:
Because they're in SG-1 (the Asgard) and they're WAY more advanced than the
Federation!(about 30,000 years more advanced)
MrSpook
>Why haven't we ever seen a species in Trek that looks like the aliens that
>are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and gray or
>green skin. How come?
CHIANA!!!
YEAH, BABY!!
MrSpook
kingsman
grandfather...
"Andy Lisle" <ali...@wizards.net> wrote in message
news:3C72B9A2...@wizards.net...
rick++
He has used them in at least three movies: Close Encounters, E.T. and A.I.
and perhaps some of the poltegeist creatures.
Omnipitus
that
> > are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and
gray or
> > green skin. How come?
>
> Because after we discovered warp drive and torpedoes, we went over to
their
> home planet and blew up those anal-probing motherf---ers! :)
LOL!
Weyoun the Dancing Borg
--
"Andy Lisle" <ali...@wizards.net> wrote in message
news:3C72B9A2...@wizards.net...
kidt
ric...@hotmail.com (rick++) wrote in message news:<f7422d8e.02022...@posting.google.com>...
Zombie Elvis
and cats lived together. One voice cried out in the wilderness.
> Why haven't we ever seen a species in Trek that looks like the aliens that
> are commonly "grays"? Little bodies, big heads, huge black eyes and gray or
> green skin. How come?
Because the grays are frequently associated with the crash at Roswell,
New Mexico and every DS9 fan knows that it was Quark, Rom, and Nog
that crashed at Roswell.
--
"I am First Omet'iklan, and I am dead. As of this moment, we are all
dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for
we are Jem'Hadar. Remember, victory is life."
-- Omet'iklan
"I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I'm very much alive, and I intend
to *stay* that way."
-- O'Brien
Roberto Castillo
cast...@enteract.com
http://www.enteract.com/~castillo
BIG ONE
PROMETHEUS
"Tool Packin' Mama" <la...@lauragoodwin.org> wrote
"...I'm sorry I never had a homosexual relationship, because I know there
must be many joys and pleasures and degrees of closeness in those
relationships..." Gene Roddenberry
========
well so much 4 u'r hetro 'male' role model
=======
It is a mis-quote. An innacurate quote. A lie. Gene NEVER said anything of
the sort. The interviewer (speaking with Gene in the last year of his life)
made up that quote. Gene, sorry for NOT BEING GAY? Give me a break. Even
revisionist morons like you geeks have to admit that Gene would NEVER had
made such an admission. He never apologized for anything!
PUFF and GO FUCK YERSELVES!!!
Larry Gold
to use their name or picture. the x-files were allowed as the government
liked the idea of the programme
--
Larry Gold
Arsenal For Life
larry.gold.@ntlworld.com
"Andy Lisle" <ali...@wizards.net> wrote in message
news:3C72B9A2...@wizards.net...
Brad Filippone
: LOL "crosslegged" LOL
Perhaps what Spock was really trying to say was "I Did Imogen Coca!"
Brad
Graeme
from the Roddenberrys, not the fans.
>>
That's probably the original source. The whole thing was invented to have
another doodad for Lincoln to sell, which is why Nimoy refused to do the scene.
Graeme
Because Star Trek is about science, not superstition. So naturally they do not
wish to encourage irrational beliefs such as that in UFOs.
John Savard
>>
Um... the Enterprise WAS a UFO in Tomorrow is Yesterday!
Whoops!
Graeme
>>Q'plooey my hairy ass. You people are liars and bullshitters. I know what
Trek was about. You mis-represent it!
>>
Yeah, but YOU think Trek was about Date Rape. Most sane people would think
that you're even farther away from the truth than the K/S crowd.
Graeme
>>Wrong. My quotes were accurate.
I'm afraid you're lying again, Ducky. You simply claimed that Gene was FURIOUS
when he found out that K/S fan literature existed, and cited the David
Alexander bio as your source. You gave NO quotes at all. No accurate quotes.
No inaccurate quotes. No quotes, period. No page numbers either. Just the
title of the book.
Of course it turned out you had a good reason for that. You wanted it to be
hard for anyone to look up, and counted on nobody wanting to thumb through a
500 page book looking for a random piece of information. When I actually did
it, found the right place, and discovered that it really said the exact
*opposite* of what you claimed (that Gene didn't CARE about K/S when he learned
about it), is when you told me how stupid I was to have checked your facts
(even though I had nailed you), boasted about having lied and gave me that
"whatcha gonna do about it, sucker" jazz.
Well, now you know, don't you? What I'm going to do about it is hold it over
your head forever. You didn't count on that, did you? Personally, I don't
think you lied at first. I think you just didn't care about the facts much,
misremembered what the book said, and then bragged about lying because you
weren't man enough to admit having made a simple mistake. You had to make it
look like you got me when in fact I got you, and so you lied about having lied,
so to speak, just assuming that it would be soon forgotten. Surprise! It's
not.
PROMETHEUS
"Graeme" <graem...@aol.compost> wrote in message
news:20020226013525...@mb-bg.aol.com...
What the fuck are you talking about, moron?
PROMETHEUS
"Graeme" wrote:
"... I'm afraid you're lying again, Ducky. You simply claimed that Gene was
FURIOUS
when he found out that K/S fan literature existed, and cited the David
Alexander bio as your source. You gave NO quotes at all..."
=====
WRONG. I gave many QUOTES!!!!!
=====
"...No accurate quotes..."
=====
WRONG. I quoted many page numbers!
=====
Of course it turned out you had a good reason for that. You wanted it to
be
hard for anyone to look up, and counted on nobody wanting to thumb through
a
500 page book looking for a random piece of information. When I actually
did
it, found the right place, and discovered that it really said the exact
*opposite* of what you claimed (that Gene didn't CARE about K/S when he
learned
about it),
=====
WRONG. GENE WAS LIVID about K/S in the early PUBLISHED genuine novels. As
far as fandom was concerned he didn't give a fuck. Livid is the word
actually used!!!!!
=====
is when you told me how stupid I was to have checked your facts
> (even though I had nailed you), boasted about having lied and gave me that
> "whatcha gonna do about it, sucker" jazz.
> Well, now you know, don't you? What I'm going to do about it is hold it
over
> your head forever.
=====
WOW!! An internet geek thinks that he has some sort of sway over me. How
fucking demented. This "group" is a piece of shit. Only fucked-up fans are
into K/S, not Gene, not the producers, directors, actors or anyone else.
=====
My quotes were accurate.
Gene hated K/S.
You are a total liar.