Canadians, French, and Germans
Captain Red Beard
assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent the
elimination of absolute scum?
God damn it all, the Canadians are starting to cheese me off royally.
But then again, what do you expect from $#%$@# socialists?
Oh, and who let the French back onto the world stage? If there was a
single loser of WWII and deserved to have their country turned over to
the victors it was the French. But then, they have a long history of
collaborating with the most evil form of scum, don't they?
And do the Germans remember this line: "Mister Gorbachev, tear down this
wall!"? If it weren't for a little bit of American bull-headedness,
American spunk, American POWER there would still be a wall standing
between families in Berlin.
America has let the losers define us as some sort of evil. The losers?
Communists and Socialists masquerading as 'Peace Protestors' who have not
seen fit to protest when the Chinese killed their own, when Mugabe
allowed his cronies and wife to steal land that rightfully belonged to
the farmers that worked it (oh, since it has been taken over, its sitting
fallow and there is starvation except in the Mugabe family). NO these
losers have tried to define America.
America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
Long Live America.
--
Captain Red Beard®
"Wars are started by frightened men. They are
frightened by war, but more than that, they are
frightened by what might happen if they don't
start one or take equivelant action."
- Ludlum "The Bourne Supremecy"
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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DanielSBen1
I agree with your message, if not your swear words. I must also point out that
the U.N. is even worse. Guess who gets to head the Human Rights Commission?
Libya! Talk about the fox guarding the hen-house. And nations like Syria,
Sudan, China, Saudi Arabia, and others were allowed in when the U.S. was booted
for a year. And that conference in South Africa last year? the only nation it
condemned for 'atrocities' was Israel, perhaps the nation with the shiniest
human-rights record in the Middle East, when Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan,
Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, etc. are not given even as much as a mild
"tsk-tsk". And the U.N. has the gall to tell us what to do?!?!
I haven't even glanced on the ICC (the International Criminal Court, not
Maryland's proposed Inter-County Connector, a road project which i support),
IMF, and other "international" organizations. Not to mention all those
"activist leaders" who stood by when folks like Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Pol Pot, Kim
Jong-il, etc. massacred millions. - they make Pinochet look benign by
comparison!
-DanielSBen1
jsa...@ecn.ab.ca
: Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
: elimination of absolute scum?
Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics, and don't
realize that the Security Council may not consider the issues surrounding
Iraq in a rational fashion.
Also, because Canada is a divided country, like Belgium, the Liberal party
has been able to maintain an almost constant hold on power through
manipulating the fears of Canada's French-language minority.
Thus, the positions of the Canadian government often do not reflect the
true pro-American feelings of the majority of Canadians.
John Savard
Count 1
> God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
Yeah yeah - just admit it - your day looks a lot easier when the UN gets on
board. Don't worry - they will. France, Germany, and Canada will be right
there along the way with you, and if we have to politely remind America they
are not the rulers of the world ( a responsibility I would hope you don't
even want ) then we will.
Bush keeps saying he has the doesn't present it, but until it is made public
in some way such statements will beevidence. But its not presented. I can
easily see a variety of reasons as to why he wouldn't present it. However
until it is such statements are met, properly, with skepticism. We have
our conditions for cooperating in America's war. Those conditions are not
unreasonable. So if you want our sons and daughters to die because Iraqi
terrorism is threatening 'the west' then meet the conditions or shut up.
And this is coming from one of the most pro american citizens this frozen,
forgotten country has.
And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French. One thing we
didn't do in WWII was capitulate. Tens of thousands of Canadians served
with distinction and honor - even when they knew they wouldn't make it out
alive.
Count 1
public
> in some way such statements will beevidence. But its not presented. I can
> easily see a variety of reasons as to why he wouldn't present it. However
> until it is such statements are met, properly, with skepticism. We have
> our conditions for cooperating in America's war. Those conditions are not
> unreasonable. So if you want our sons and daughters to die because Iraqi
> terrorism is threatening 'the west' then meet the conditions or shut up.
Sorry - I have no idea what happened there....
> Bush keeps saying he has the evidence but doesn't present it, until it is
made public
> in some way such statements will be met, properly, with skepticism. We
RWGibson13
>And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
Yeah, that was pretty low...
Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the French to
give 'em nuclear capability...
RWG (which the Israelis promptly blew up :-)
Now I've seen the light and I've heard the word
And I'm stayin' away from that nasty Thunderbird
Word came from heaven, ready to find
And now all I drink is Communion wine...
...six days a week.
The Late, Great Townes Van Zandt
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
> assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent the
> elimination of absolute scum?
> God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
>
> And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
> Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
>
> Long Live America.
I see you have given up on reasonable and headed straight into troll
territory. I won't bother answering except to say that your attitude
accurately represents the resons why people in other countries loathe
America withought even knowing thing one about America. Thank you so much
for being the 'Ugly American', it saved someone else from doing it, but now
it's done, can you go, the party doesn't need a fist fight.
Thanks ever so much.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> capt_red_beard wrote the quote:
> >Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
> >assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent the
> >elimination of absolute scum?
> >
> I agree with your message, if not your swear words. I must also point out
that
> the U.N. is even worse. Guess who gets to head the Human Rights
Commission?
> Libya! Talk about the fox guarding the hen-house. And nations like Syria,
> Sudan, China, Saudi Arabia, and others were allowed in when the U.S. was
booted
> for a year. And that conference in South Africa last year? the only nation
it
> condemned for 'atrocities' was Israel, perhaps the nation with the
shiniest
> human-rights record in the Middle East, when Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya,
Sudan,
> Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, etc. are not given even as much as a mild
> "tsk-tsk". And the U.N. has the gall to tell us what to do?!?!
The UN, in case you've forgotten, is a body that represents the governments
of the world.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> : Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
> : assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent
the
> : elimination of absolute scum?
>
> Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics, and don't
> realize that the Security Council may not consider the issues surrounding
> Iraq in a rational fashion.
<double take>
"uninformed about the UN" means what exactly? It's a democratic forum which
is inclusive of all points of view. If the point of view expressed differes
from yours, tough, that's democracy for you, someone will always dis-agree.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
**snip**
> And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French. One thing we
> didn't do in WWII was capitulate. Tens of thousands of Canadians served
> with distinction and honor - even when they knew they wouldn't make it out
> alive.
Quite. But I would also ask you to remember that although the French
government capitulated many of it's citizenry did not, and their resistance
added the allies in re-taking Europe. Many ordinary French citizens died at
the hands of the Germans for resisting their own government's actions. Do
not confuse the actions of a desperate government and their people.
Since WWII Europe has grown and changed, as have Germany and France. For
anyone to deride France, Germany and/or Canada is both disrespectful and
dishonest. Simply because their foreign policy is not in total agreement
with a US desire to go to war is not a reason to take such a stance. Honest
dis-agreement is nothing more and nothing less than honest disagreement. As
soon as people start GDing other countries because they don't believe as Mr
Bush believes, I start worrying about their ability to be rational.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> >
> >And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
>
> Yeah, that was pretty low...
>
> Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the French
to
> give 'em nuclear capability...
>
> RWG (which the Israelis promptly blew up :-)
Ooops, I think you forgot all the weaponry and support that the US gave to
Iraq when Iraq was rather conviniently at war with Iran. Oh well, never
mind, none of those war materials actually helped Saddam cement his hold on
power or terror did they?
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house Ron.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
>: "Captain Red Beard" wrote
>: Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
>: assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent the
>: elimination of absolute scum?
You dont seem to know Star Trek Universe history very well.
It took World War III and First contact with Vulcans to awake humanity from the nightmare its is living in today.
G. Bush and T. Blair seem to have visions of a global Anglo-american world domination. Due to their dollar-oriented visions a WWIII will soon come. Right after, a "Star Trek" era will reign.
>: God damn it all, the Canadians are starting to cheese me off royally.
>: But then again, what do you expect from $#%$@# socialists?
Why do you define a proven democratic country like Canda as socialist ? Do you imply that socialism is NOT democracy ?
>: Oh, and who let the French back onto the world stage? If there was a
>: single loser of WWII and deserved to have their country turned over to
>: the victors it was the French. But then, they have a long history of
>: collaborating with the most evil form of scum, don't they?
France has been a major power in world politics for the last 400 years. You need to refresh your history knowledge.
France IS a nuclear power and has a say in today's global politics. Germany has one of the strongest economies in the world.
Both France and Germany are a perfect example of two former lethal enemies that have worked together for Peace.
Both France and Germany have been of the founders of the European Union.
BOTH France and Germany have large investments in Iraq, out of which investments the entire European Union will benefit. And a strong E.U is something that George Bush does NOT want (Have you noticed how the US $ is sinking, compared to the Euro?).
4 trillion US $ (4,000,000,000,000.00) is the minimum estimate of the value of Iraq petroleum still not digged for.
Will G. Bush, the oil tycoon D. Cheney and the oil-dry UK allow the rest of Europe to get access to it ??? Of course not!
So, I suggest you remain faithful to your brainwashed thinking that USA and UK fight for freedom and the let the politicians fight for the real purposes . PETROLEUM - OIL = Gas = "MONEY, dollar signs!"
>: And do the Germans remember this line: "Mister Gorbachev, tear down this
>: wall!"? If it weren't for a little bit of American bull-headedness,
>: American spunk, American POWER there would still be a wall standing
>: between families in Berlin.
BTW, who on Earth, Vulcan or Cardassia has appointed USA as the Planet's Police ?
It was a nice wall actually. Full of graffiti. A tourist attraction. A momument of human vanity.
>: America has let the losers define us as some sort of evil. The losers?
>: Communists and Socialists masquerading as 'Peace Protestors' who have not
>: seen fit to protest when the Chinese killed their own, when Mugabe
>: allowed his cronies and wife to steal land that rightfully belonged to
>: the farmers that worked it (oh, since it has been taken over, its sitting
>: fallow and there is starvation except in the Mugabe family). NO these
>: losers have tried to define America.
Where were you when the Peace Protesters were marching after the events in the Tien An Men Square in Bejing ?
Peace Protesters are everywhere. Europe, Asia, UK, even in the good ol' USA!
Oh.. I am sorry. I forgot. China has no oil, Zimbabwe has no oil, so USA & UK don't care.
I missed N. Korea. Now, thats an enemy USA should be anooyed by. (I seem to have forgotten again; There is no oil in the Korean peninsula).
>: America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
UK has opium visions of re-establishing the long lost glory of the British Empire. USA wants a "Piece of the Action".
>: God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
God damn people like you, who act like a Borg, thinking they "bring order to chaos".
"Borg dont conquer, they destroy".
>: And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
>: Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
Celine is an excelent artist. Excelent voice and performer. Unlike Madonna.
>: Long Live America.
Captain Red Beard, your reason is far...far away from any Federation logic.
Long live Logic & Peace.
EuroTrek
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
"The Highlander (aka Gordon)" <Highlan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b149t0$vk54c$1...@ID-120397.news.dfncis.de...
: I see you have given up on reasonable and headed straight into troll
:
:
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
"At the hanged man's house, no one talks about rope".
Eurotrek
PS. This subject is not only "troll-qualified" but is getting way off topic as well.
Anyone saw "Nemesis" recently ? I DID !!! Today ! And I loved it!!!
"The Highlander (aka Gordon)" <Highlan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b14and$u1bfp$1...@ID-120397.news.dfncis.de...
: "RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote
:
:
Zion
news:Xns930FC14163983Ca...@128.242.171.114:
> Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
> whimp assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to
> prevent the elimination of absolute scum?
If you think, american attitude will help free countries of opression, you
obviously got something wrong.
I am just happy, that i live in a country that is free. We have the freedom
to do and to think what we want. I am proud, that the representants of
europe are standing up against Bush and his attitude of if-it's-not-
america-it-has-to-bow-down-to-us.
> America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lol.
If the USA are so great then why:
1. Are "prisoners of war" held in guantanamo bay without respect for human
rights?
2. When will the USA start paying their share of UN fees? (The only country
that never paid anything)
3. Why do most people have the feeling, that its all about Oil in Iraq?
4. Why is the USA building its own STASI? (Homeland Security Department)
I am happy that i am european. I am Spanish and i grew up and live in
germany, but i consider myself to be of neither nationality think about
that. I guess every american can learn something from what "old" europe has
become in the past 50 years. Countries that were enemies for centuries are
now peacefully united.
BTW. Why the fuck does a discussion like this get started in a Star Trek
newsgroup.
Go an troll somewhere else.
--
Zion - auf der Suche einer neuen Signatur :)
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
Since when ? Mexico supplies are drying out, USA supplies are out, Norway and UK supplies are out, Venezuela supplies are...out of control. Who's left to power your large 5.0 motor truly American car ?
Think about it.
EuroTrek
"Keeper of the Purple Twilight" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote in message news:270120031659107753%n...@spam.invalid...
> Because they're not prisoners of war; that would apply to real,
> recognized soldiers, which terrorists definitely are not.
:
: > 3. Why do most people have the feeling, that its all about Oil in Iraq?
: Because most people are full of shit. :) We don't need Iraq's oil. We
: can get all we need without it.
Zion
news:b14e2n$os9$1...@usenet.otenet.gr:
> Since when ? Mexico supplies are drying out, USA supplies are out,
> Norway and UK supplies are out, Venezuela supplies are...out of
> control. Who's left to power your large 5.0 motor truly American car ?
>
> Think about it.
Oh, and don't get me started on the Kyoto Protocol. I think Bush had to
keep a lot of promises to corporations after rigging..., i mean winning his
election.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
Greetings from Greece. I am with you 100%.
EuroTrek
"Zion" <duke.n...@gmx.net> wrote in message news:b14efm$vlf7k$1...@ID-109711.news.dfncis.de...
: "Dan \"EuroTrek\" Daniels" <aaaeuro...@aaamailboxaaa.gr> wrote in
Count 1
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels <aaaeuro...@aaamailboxaaa.gr> wrote in message
news:b14evt$pfs$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
I promise I wont get you started Zion. lol
Greetings from Greece. I am with you 100%.
***********
Good - its easier to pick off the fools when they're in clumps.
I'm against war with Iraq as well - but certainly not for the same reasons
Euro Weinies are. Euro Weinies are against it because its considered trendy
to disagree with the US. Your asinine comments regarding Kyoto ( which is a
farce and a half ) and large engines are only funny - not informative.
You're in Greece? That's pretty close to Kuwait. How come your country
wasn't called on to liberate them in 1989?
Envy of America is rampant in the world. As a canadian I see it all the
time. It looks and sounds like condemnation, disgust, and insults; however
it really masks insane jealousy. Going to war is a bad move IMHO at this
time, but don't use such condemnation to spread lies about rigged elections,
environmental accords, and / or large engines ( have you seen some of the
gas guzzlers Europe develops? ).
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> X-No-Archive: yes
> The Highlander (aka Gordon) wrote:
> > <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote
> > > Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> > > : Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
whimp
> > > : assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to
prevent
> > the
> > > : elimination of absolute scum?
> > >
> > > Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics, and
don't
> > > realize that the Security Council may not consider the issues
surrounding
> > > Iraq in a rational fashion.
> >
> > <double take>
> > "uninformed about the UN" means what exactly? It's a democratic forum
which
> > is inclusive of all points of view. If the point of view expressed
differes
> > from yours, tough, that's democracy for you, someone will always
dis-agree.
>
>
> Cuba, China, Vietnam, Burma, Saudi Arabia, so forth all belong to the
> U.N. and they're not democracies.
It is a deomcratic forum, in and of itself. The fact that some of the
representatives there were not sent by democracies doesn not alter the forum
in which they take part.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
>: You're in Greece? That's pretty close to Kuwait. How come your country
>: wasn't called on to liberate them in 1989?
Now, THIS IS funny. Greece is NOT close to Kuwait (when was the last time you looked at a world map?).
In the gulf war in 1990, Greece participated with 2 war ships in the area. We just are not fools enough to send ground troops to fight for US purposes. Europe is now a land of Peace.
The Kyoto agreement (the countries that agreed anyway) shows a great deal regarding USA's int'l policy. USA, just by not signing the deal says it all.
The US elections were rigged, fixed or what ever else you wish to call it. It takes anyone outside USA to see it.
The large sized motors is a must-have for every American (and Canadians, as far as I know).
There is no USA envy. I am 32 and have never seen it.
What I have seen though is criticism to USA's int'l policy. As years pass by, USA's policy and multinational corporations want and get (or try to get at least) more and more cuts on international affairs.
We Europeans love small cars. The European gas-guzzling cars are a minimal addition to global gas consumption problem.
Live long and prosper!
Dan
"Count 1" <Omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b14gcs$utlip$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
: ***********
:
:
:
:
Count 1
It is NOT a hot trendy fashion in Europe to disagree with the US.
>: You're in Greece? That's pretty close to Kuwait. How come your country
>: wasn't called on to liberate them in 1989?
Now, THIS IS funny. Greece is NOT close to Kuwait (when was the last time
you looked at a world map?).
***
Are you under the impression Greece is farther than the states are?
***
The Kyoto agreement (the countries that agreed anyway) shows a great deal
regarding USA's int'l policy. USA, just by not signing the deal says it all.
****
Yeah - It says the US is more interested in science than political concerns
when dealing with issues of science.
****
The US elections were rigged, fixed or what ever else you wish to call it.
***
unadulterated nonsense vomited up by foolish individuals. If you wish to
redeem yourself in this forum try a more intellegent approach.
****
It takes anyone outside USA to see it.
The large sized motors is a must-have for every American (and Canadians, as
far as I know).
****
Uh - huh - so now we have confirmation. You talk about things of which you
have no knowledge. I think we've seen enough.
***
RWGibson13
>> >And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
>>
>> Yeah, that was pretty low...
>>
>> Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the French
>to
>> give 'em nuclear capability...
>>
>> RWG (which the Israelis promptly blew up :-)
>
>Ooops, I think you forgot all the weaponry and support that the US gave to
>Iraq when Iraq was rather conviniently at war with Iran. Oh well, never
>mind, none of those war materials actually helped Saddam cement his hold on
>power or terror did they?<
Sure they did. That's the problem with dealing with dangerous regimes. The
relative danger levels change. Of course, there are those in the US who STILL
think Iran poses more of a long-range danger than Iraq, but they aren't
currently in charge...but then again, they *might* be after the *next* election
over here :-)
Same with North Korea.
>
>Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house Ron.<
Speaking of stones, do those of you in Europe think your governments are REALLY
thinking about the lives of those poor innocent Iraqis when they talk of
waiting and letting the inspectors do their jobs before the bombing starts?
No, just like most governments, they're thinking about the NEXT way they can
make money from the regime over there to help prop up their economies and how
best they can use their votes to get political concessions from the US. At
least they've been upfront with it in the past.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/timetable.htm
I especially like the quote from the German magazine. " If US troops go to war
in the gulf, they will have to fight their way through Germany's chemical
exports to destroy Germany's nuclear exports."
Think of that the next time you hear the "no war for oil" argument coming from
high places.
RWG (not many innocents in international politics)
Karen
aaaeuro...@aaamailboxaaa.gr wrote on 1/27/03 4:05 PM:
Thank you.
Karen
Karen
Gordon) at Highlan...@yahoo.com wrote on 1/27/03 5:52 PM:
You said it!
Karen
Captain Red Beard
thought, but what came out was message
news:cRdZ9.189$m4.67670@localhost:
Rise up, man! Rise up!
The Canadians, the French, and the Germans need to rise up take back
their governments.
Captain Red Beard
profound thought, but what came out was message
> And this is coming from one of the most pro american citizens this
> frozen, forgotten country has.
>
> And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French. One thing we
> didn't do in WWII was capitulate. Tens of thousands of Canadians
> served with distinction and honor - even when they knew they wouldn't
> make it out alive.
And current Canadians sully the honor of their past heroes when they make
camp with the Vichy.
Rise up and take back your government.
Captain Red Beard
opened to utter some profound thought, but what came out was message
> As soon as people start GDing
> other countries because they don't believe as Mr Bush believes, I
> start worrying about their ability to be rational.
Do not make the mistake of thinking that I am a Bush supporter. I am not.
Dwight Williams
>
> Thus, the positions of the Canadian government often do not reflect the
> true pro-American feelings of the majority of Canadians.
Don't presume to either characterize or speak for my politics as a
Canadian. Under any circumstances. On any topic. Being in favour of the
USA's continued existence does not preclude the right and responsibility
to occasionally distrust its government's leadership and the conduct of
same.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled _Enterprise_
discussion...as soon as we get the subject of whether we and our
countrymen (and -women) truly deserve damnation on the basis of our
citizenship. Which, come to think of it, would make for an interesting
_Enterprise_ script scenario.
--
Dwight Williams - Orleans(Ottawa), ON, Canada
Personal Homesite: http://www.ncf.ca/~ad696/
*I* own my Usenet postings, not some archival service!
Captain Red Beard
> jsa...@ecn.ab.ca wrote:
>>
>> Thus, the positions of the Canadian government often do not reflect
the
>> true pro-American feelings of the majority of Canadians.
>
> Don't presume to either characterize or speak for my politics as a
> Canadian. Under any circumstances. On any topic. Being in favour of the
> USA's continued existence does not preclude the right and
responsibility
> to occasionally distrust its government's leadership and the conduct of
> same.
>
> We now return you to your regularly scheduled _Enterprise_
> discussion...as soon as we get the subject of whether we and our
> countrymen (and -women) truly deserve damnation on the basis of our
> citizenship. Which, come to think of it, would make for an interesting
> _Enterprise_ script scenario.
>
God damn, you're right. Write it. Write it.
Now the mirror turns. Americans have been damned for a long time based
upon our citizenship. But, we are a useful lot when it comes time to
save the world from someone else's war, but let us try and fix our own
problems...well, we don't really need those that will chicken out.
I just wish I didn't have the German, Canadian, or God damn it, this
French blood.
It's not about oil, its about eliminating evil that backs more evil.
When you've lost a friend in a Palestinian bombing that was financed
straight up by Iraq, then tell me there is no need wipe out the regime.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> opened to utter some profound thought, but what came out was message
> news:b14akb$vhiqq$1...@ID-120397.news.dfncis.de:
>
> > As soon as people start GDing
> > other countries because they don't believe as Mr Bush believes, I
> > start worrying about their ability to be rational.
>
> Do not make the mistake of thinking that I am a Bush supporter. I am not.
Re-read my post.
Captain Red Beard
opened to utter some profound thought, but what came out was message
> In article <Xns9310B6E32F9BDCa...@128.242.171.114>,
> Captain Red Beard <capt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And current Canadians sully the honor of their past heroes when they
>> make camp with the Vichy.
>
> What do the Canadians have to do with Vichy? That was France of the
> 1940's, not Canada of today.
>
They have thrown their lot in with the Vichy. They have allied
themselves in this battle against evil with the appeasers of evil. By
taking the same line as the French they have become one with them.
jsa...@ecn.ab.ca
: Oh.. I am sorry. I forgot. China has no oil, Zimbabwe has no oil, so USA =
: & UK don't care.=20
China has nuclear bombs. So it is *difficult* to interfere with them when
they do things like Tienanmen Square. Just as it was difficult to do
anything about the longstanding cruel dictatorship the Russian communists
imposed on Eastern Europe.
Oh, yes. China does have a little oil. Chinese-occupied Uighuristan (the
so-called "Sinkiang" province) has quite a bit of oil, actually, which is
why the foreign Chinese aggressor is holding on to it, creating unhappy
desperate Muslims who can be recruited by al-Qaeda. And Tibet has gold and
other valuable minerals.
John Savard
jsa...@ecn.ab.ca
: <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote
: > Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: > : Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
: > : assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent
: the
: > : elimination of absolute scum?
: >
: > Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics, and don't
: > realize that the Security Council may not consider the issues surrounding
: > Iraq in a rational fashion.
: <double take>
: "uninformed about the UN" means what exactly? It's a democratic forum which
: is inclusive of all points of view. If the point of view expressed differes
: from yours, tough, that's democracy for you, someone will always dis-agree.
Democratic? In a sense, the way South Africa was democratic, because
whites could vote.
If all the members of the UN were democratic countries, THEN the UN would
be democratic, and inclusive of the different points of view of all the
peoples of the world - instead of some of the peoples of the world, and
the oppressors of the other peoples of the world.
John Savard
Ta'
>
> And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French. One thing we
> didn't do in WWII was capitulate. Tens of thousands of Canadians served
> with distinction and honor - even when they knew they wouldn't make it out
> alive.
This is true. Say what you will about (aboot?) the Canadians, they're no
Frenchies. Except the Quebious(sp?).
Ta'
> "Captain Red Beard" <capt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if whimp
> > assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent
the
> > elimination of absolute scum?
> > God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
> >
> > And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
> > Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
> >
> > Long Live America.
>
> I see you have given up on reasonable and headed straight into troll
> territory. I won't bother answering except to say that your attitude
> accurately represents the resons why people in other countries loathe
> America withought even knowing thing one about America. Thank you so much
> for being the 'Ugly American', it saved someone else from doing it, but
now
> it's done, can you go, the party doesn't need a fist fight.
Well, C'mon, ya gotta admit, he had a point about Celine... sounds like a
cat stuffed in a bangpipe... shoved in an organ...
<eg>
Eurotrek
having NO knowledge of International politics and so on.
Now, WE have seen enough. You just... you have just prove the theory.
Dan
"Count 1" <Omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b14kto$vfk5d$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
Ta'
> Europe is now a land of Peace.
I'm sure they thought that in the mid 1930's too...
> The US elections were rigged, fixed or what ever else you wish to call it.
It takes anyone outside USA to see it.
*rigged*? LOL Now thats just amasingly stupid. Was the election
debatable, yeah. Rigged? Nah. Go stick your head back in the ground.
chibiangi
> Captain Red Beard <capt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns930FC14163983Ca...@128.242.171.114:
>
> > Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
> > whimp assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to
> > prevent the elimination of absolute scum?
>
> If you think, american attitude will help free countries of opression, you
> obviously got something wrong.
> I am just happy, that i live in a country that is free. We have the
freedom
> to do and to think what we want. I am proud, that the representants of
> europe are standing up against Bush and his attitude of if-it's-not-
> america-it-has-to-bow-down-to-us.
>
> > America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Lol.
>
> If the USA are so great then why:
> 1. Are "prisoners of war" held in guantanamo bay without respect for human
> rights?
They are given food, water, and shelter. Accomodations to their religion
have also been made. They are not being tortured or hurt in any way (as far
as we know). I would say their basic human rights are being met. As for
their trials or whatever, their time will come.
> 2. When will the USA start paying their share of UN fees? (The only
country
> that never paid anything)
On 30 September 2002, President Bush signed into law the Fiscal Year
2002-2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act, H.R. 1646. Since 1994 no
such State Department Authorization Bill has been able to pass Congress, yet
this year was different. In the words of Representative Tom Lantos (D-CA),
the U.S. took "a huge step toward normalizing our relationship with the
United Nations" with the recent signing into law of H.R. 1646,
*******because with its passage the United States has made the last of its
U.N. arrears payments. With the release of this $244 million sum,
representing the third and final arrears payment, the U.S. absolved its debt
to the U.N.********
> 3. Why do most people have the feeling, that its all about Oil in Iraq?
Because they follow propaganda just as easily as the people they say are
following propaganda easily.
> 4. Why is the USA building its own STASI? (Homeland Security Department)
Because we want to? What does that have to do with anything? A country can
defend itself and its land anyway it sees fit.
Eurotrek
> *rigged*? LOL Now thats just amasingly stupid. Was the election
> debatable, yeah. Rigged? Nah. Go stick your head back in the ground.
"Stick my head back in the ground ?" I am amazed by the high level of
conversation here.
Is that all you can say or you can do worse ?
Dan
"Ta'" <tat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b15cth$vqpvs$1...@ID-119704.news.dfncis.de...
Michel Boucher
> Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>: Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
>: whimp assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going
>: to prevent the elimination of absolute scum?
>
> Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics,
> and don't realize that the Security Council may not consider the
> issues surrounding Iraq in a rational fashion.
>
> Also, because Canada is a divided country, like Belgium, the
> Liberal party has been able to maintain an almost constant hold on
> power through manipulating the fears of Canada's French-language
> minority.
>
> Thus, the positions of the Canadian government often do not
> reflect the true pro-American feelings of the majority of
> Canadians.
Have you been smoking crack?
--
Es la hora de los hornos y no se ha de ver más que la luz.
José MartÃ
Sascha
alsa...@rogers.com says...
> Dans un moment de folie, jsa...@ecn.ab.ca () écrivit:
>
> > Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> >: Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
> >: whimp assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going
> >: to prevent the elimination of absolute scum?
Oh Captain, that was below the Belly Line.....
Sascha
capt_re...@hotmail.com says...
>
> America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
and is now threatening the world with a nuclear strike...
>
> God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
And damn those mad maniacs in washington. Amen, brother
>
> And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
> Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
>
> Long Live America.
Not if Bush nukes us all
fozzi bear
It was open to the criticism of rigged when the defective ballots occured
in Florida, a State run by one of the contestants siblings, if the election
were completely honest Jed would've disqualified himself from having any
say in the matter on the grounds of a conflict of interests.
Cheers
Fozzi
Sascha
@aol.com says...
> >
> >And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
>
>
> Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the French to
> give 'em nuclear capability...
You mean like the Americans that supported the Taliban
in Afghanistan before they turned against America ?
>
> RWG (which the Israelis promptly blew up :-)
>
Sascha
\(aka Gordon\)" <Highlan...@yahoo.com> says...
>
> Since WWII Europe has grown and changed, as have Germany and France. For
> anyone to deride France, Germany and/or Canada is both disrespectful and
> dishonest. Simply because their foreign policy is not in total agreement
> with a US desire to go to war is not a reason to take such a stance. Honest
> dis-agreement is nothing more and nothing less than honest disagreement. As
> soon as people start GDing other countries because they don't believe as Mr
> Bush believes, I start worrying about their ability to be rational.
Gordon: Thank you !
Sascha
@yahoo.com says...
> ***********> news:b14evt$pfs$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> I promise I wont get you started Zion. lol
>
> Greetings from Greece. I am with you 100%.
>
> ***********
> Good - its easier to pick off the fools when they're in clumps.
>
> I'm against war with Iraq as well - but certainly not for the same reasons
> Euro Weinies are. Euro Weinies are against it because its considered trendy
> to disagree with the US. Your asinine comments regarding Kyoto ( which is a
> farce and a half ) and large engines are only funny - not informative.
Thatæ„€ the reason for the Demonstration IN the US ? Isnæ„’ it ?
>
> You're in Greece? That's pretty close to Kuwait. How come your country
> wasn't called on to liberate them in 1989?
>
> Envy of America is rampant in the world. As a canadian I see it all the
> time. It looks and sounds like condemnation, disgust, and insults; however
> it really masks insane jealousy. Going to war is a bad move IMHO at this
> time, but don't use such condemnation to spread lies about rigged elections,
> environmental accords, and / or large engines ( have you seen some of the
> gas guzzlers Europe develops? ).
>
>
>
>
>
RWGibson13
>be democratic, and inclusive of the different points of view of all the
>peoples of the world - instead of some of the peoples of the world, and
>the oppressors of the other peoples of the world.<
Yep. My memory has gone foggy here - exactly what "democratic" countries are
on, say, the UN Human Rights Commission?
RWG (currently headed by some guy in Libya :-)
RWGibson13
>Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
>
It's only been, what, three or four years since the "ethnic clensing" ended in
Bosnia? Pardon me if I think the countries over there need a bit more time
before anyone can make that kind of declarative statement.
Was it a European who was short-sighted enough to call WW1 "the war to end all
wars?"
RWG (little did THAT guy know :-)
Sascha
Im Central-Park in New York sieht ein Mann wie ein kleines Kind von
einem
Kampfhund angegriffen wird.
Sofort kommt er dem Kind zur Hilfe, springt dazwischen, kämpft mit dem
Hund
und rettet das Kind.
Andere Passanten, die zu feige waren dem Kind zu helfen, hatten
zwischenzeitlich die Polizei alarmiert.
Die war dann auch sofort zur Stelle und mit ihnen ein Krankenwagen.
Der Kampfhund, den der Mann beim Kampf getötet hatte, wurde
weggebracht.
Die Polizisten nahmen den Einsatz auf, befragten die umherstehenden
Menschen und machten sich Notizen für ihren Bericht.
Der Mann, der sich beim Kampf mit dem Hund verletzte, wurde von den
Sanitätern versorgt.
Auch die Presse war bereits vor Ort und die Reporter warteten auf ein
Interview.
Einer der Polizisten ging zu dem mutigen Mann, klopfte ihn anerkennend
auf
die Schulter, zeigte auf die Reporter und sagte:
'Ich sehe schon, morgen steht in der Zeitung Mutiger New Yorker rettet
einem Kind das Leben! Der Retter schüttelt den Kopf:
'Ich bin aber kein New Yorker!' 'Na ja' antwortet der Polizist, 'dann
steht da eben Mutiger Amerikaner rettet einem
New Yorker Kind das Leben!' Und wieder schüttelt der Mann sein Haupt:
'Ich
bin auch kein Amerikaner!' Der Polizist stutzte:'Was bist Du denn
dann?'
Der Held zuckte mit den Schultern und antwortete: 'Ich bin aus
Pakistan!'
Am nächsten Tag stand in der Zeitung:
Radikaler Islamist tötete New Yorker Hund im Park - Verbindung zur
Terrorszene wird vermutet.
Sascha
@aol.com says...
> >
> >Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
> >
>
> It's only been, what, three or four years since the "ethnic clensing" ended in
> Bosnia? Pardon me if I think the countries over there need a bit more time
> before anyone can make that kind of declarative statement.
? ? ?
At least we are not threatening with a nuclear strike
RWGibson13
>> America, with Britain, has led the world into freedom.
>
>and is now threatening the world with a nuclear strike...<
Yawn. I heard pretty much the same ravings from ignorant "allies" on the
internet before the US went after the Taliban. But, of course, we never hear
it from the leaders of the allied countries because they know better.
The only reason the US use of nukes are *ever* mentioned is that an effective
military commander leaves open all available options even if he knows there's
no way in hell he'll actually have to use them.
The secret is that you should never let the "other" guy know that :-)
To steer it back in regards to Trek, think of it as Kirk and his "special
order" in the recently discussed "A Taste of Armageddon." Do you REALLY think
he would have ordered the destruction of millions of people?
The US has so many other weapons in its arsenal that the only way any President
will order a nuclear strike is if someone else does it first.
RWG (there's really no need to)
RWGibson13
>> >And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
>>
>> Yeah, that was pretty low...
>>
>> Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the French
>to
>> give 'em nuclear capability...
>
>You mean like the Americans that supported the Taliban
>in Afghanistan before they turned against America ?<
The US never really supported the Taliban per se, but rather some of the people
who would later form the Taliban government (not to mention bin Laden and AQ)
WERE supported in their war against Soviet occupation by a variety of
countries, including the US *and* European Allies. It wasn't until long after
the USSR pulled out of Afghanistan that the Taliban government was formed,
mainly with muscle from Pakistan. As I mentioned in an earlier post, when it
comes to international politics there are very few innocent parties and
alliances change all the time.
Still, giving an aggressive dictator like Saddam the ability to make nuclear
weaponry isn't even in the same ballpark as giving small arms, missle
launchers, and CIA training to Afghan rebels fighting a Soviet puppet
government.
It's really questionable economic ties like those noted above that make many
Americans question the current foot-dragging by Germany and France harder than
they probably should...
RWG (check the rumored French deal for Iraqi oil for example)
Count 1
They're even less french.
Eurotrek
Kossovo, Serbia are located ?
The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up
by USA as an excuse to show EU who the boss is, in the heart of Europe.
Dont get me wrong here, I am totally against any kind of racial
discrimination (unlike you who seem to have a "thing" for Europeans).
Oh.. the stories I can tell you of US citizens working in Albania, Kossovo
before the issue was brought up and how they fled before military action was
taken. Dont get me started dude.
Dan
"RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030128094719...@mb-mm.aol.com...
fozzi bear
> The US has so many other weapons in its arsenal that the only way any President
> will order a nuclear strike is if someone else does it first.
>
> RWG (there's really no need to)
>
Um perhaps you could remind me of a few things.
1. Which is the only country in the world that has ever used a nuke in combat ?
2. exactly how many nukes did japan possess at the time, and what targets did it
use them on?
3. exactly how many nukes did Germany have (the intended target for the bombs)
and which targets did they use them on.
4. Out of the USA and the USSR which publicly threatened the other with a
nuclear strike (and yes only one did so publicly)
5. which are the 3 states in the world to have been engaged in military
combat in every decade since WWII (clue Australia & UK are two of them)
It may surprise you to learn tha I support the current war, and Australias
alliance with the US, however my faith lies in the US people and ideals, I do
not trust your politicians any more than i do our own (i.e. about as far
as I can spit them) they will use nukes any time it is politically expedient.
Just like in WWII, the Japanese had already asked for terms 3 times b4
the bombs were dropped, the final time only stipulating that the Emporer
remain, was the only term requested. Nukes on Japan had nothing to do with
saving allied lives, it had everything to do with sending a message
to Stalin that America was now thr boss. IE it was a political not a
military decision.
Cheers
Fozzi
Count 1
Captain Red Beard <capt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9310DD2ADB7C7Ca...@128.242.171.114...
> On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:20:09 GMT, Keeper of the Purple Twilight's mouth
> opened to utter some profound thought, but what came out was message
> news:270120032020084980%n...@spam.invalid:
>
> > In article <Xns9310B6E32F9BDCa...@128.242.171.114>,
> > Captain Red Beard <capt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And current Canadians sully the honor of their past heroes when they
> >> make camp with the Vichy.
> >
> > What do the Canadians have to do with Vichy? That was France of the
> > 1940's, not Canada of today.
> >
>
> They have thrown their lot in with the Vichy. They have allied
> themselves in this battle against evil with the appeasers of evil. By
> taking the same line as the French they have become one with them.
Actually...not quite.
Here's the real problem.
1) Defense minister ( some pathetic drunk with strong political
connections ) visits with bush - has press conference stating we'll be there
no matter what
2) two days later his boss - our most impressive PM Chretien has his own
press conference stating "Only with UN Res". Effectively overriding his
minister.
3) three days after that - post phone call with bush - Chretien states a UN
res is not needed - only evidence.
state - backtrack - rescind - restate. When this is the pattern one thing
is for certain. Canada will be there - UN mandate or not. It won't mean
much strategically, it will mean more politically.
Two thoughts ;
1) this isn't a concern anyway because you're gonna get the resolution.
2) Canada's military contingent is inconsequential compared to the US's.
Count 1
Eurotrek <eeeur...@eeemailbox.gr> wrote in message
news:b15csb$boe$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> What we have seen enough of is YOU having NO knowledge of global
Geography,
> having NO knowledge of International politics and so on.
Why are you doing this to yourself? Is it because you're emberassed you
didn't get the basic point regarding Greece and US influence in the world?
And how being the lesser of the two countries might cause some jealousy?
BTW - refering to the fact that greece is closer than the US to Kuwait - I
demonstrated a good knowledge of global geography. Unfortunately it was a
much smaller issue than the geopolitical one I was discussing, and in fact
only using it to make a point in that subject.
> Now, WE have seen enough. You just... you have just prove the theory.
?? I hesitate to ask this - uncertain of the various vectors of idiocy you
are going to go down - but what 'theory'?
Eurotrek
Iraq petroleum. Currently, USA has no cut in this pie. But EU does, so is
China and Russia. (what a coincidence!!!!).
How did that "analyst" say it on CNN the other day ?? (Sorry, I dont have a
photographic memory)..
"....after Saddam is down and the contracts are re-devided, USA corporations
will join the exploitation of Iraqi oil......"
That says it all.
Dan
"RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030127200613...@mb-ma.aol.com...
>
> >> >And don't EVER lump us into the same group as the French.<
> >>
> >> Yeah, that was pretty low...
> >>
> >> Germany may have given Saddam the chemical weapons, but it took the
French
> >to
> >> give 'em nuclear capability...
> >>
> >> RWG (which the Israelis promptly blew up :-)
> >
> >Ooops, I think you forgot all the weaponry and support that the US gave
to
> >Iraq when Iraq was rather conviniently at war with Iran. Oh well, never
> >mind, none of those war materials actually helped Saddam cement his hold
on
> >power or terror did they?<
>
> Sure they did. That's the problem with dealing with dangerous regimes. The
> relative danger levels change. Of course, there are those in the US who
STILL
> think Iran poses more of a long-range danger than Iraq, but they aren't
> currently in charge...but then again, they *might* be after the *next*
election
> over here :-)
>
> Same with North Korea.
>
> >
> >Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house Ron.<
>
> Speaking of stones, do those of you in Europe think your governments are
REALLY
> thinking about the lives of those poor innocent Iraqis when they talk of
> waiting and letting the inspectors do their jobs before the bombing
starts?
> No, just like most governments, they're thinking about the NEXT way they
can
> make money from the regime over there to help prop up their economies and
how
> best they can use their votes to get political concessions from the US.
At
> least they've been upfront with it in the past.
>
> http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/timetable.htm
>
> I especially like the quote from the German magazine. " If US troops go to
war
> in the gulf, they will have to fight their way through Germany's chemical
> exports to destroy Germany's nuclear exports."
>
> Think of that the next time you hear the "no war for oil" argument coming
from
> high places.
>
> RWG (not many innocents in international politics)
RWGibson13
>And what do you know about Bosnia ? Do you, even today, know where Bosnia,
>Kossovo, Serbia are located ?<
uh, yeah. Not all of us are ignorant of geography over here on this side of the
Atlantic.
>The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up
>by USA as an excuse to show EU who the boss is, in the heart of Europe.<
"an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up?" English must be your
second language, because I can't really believe you meant to use that
particular phrasing. How many people have to die before it becomes something
no one NEEDS to "blow up?" Hundreds? Thousands? How many people have to lose
their homes? Be raped? If that is your idea of "peace," I guess maybe Europe
WILL be at peace for a long while.
>Dont get me wrong here, I am totally against any kind of racial
>discrimination (unlike you who seem to have a "thing" for Europeans).<
No, just the ones that go on and on about American affairs when they don't know
what they're talking about. I didn't start the thread about French, Germans,
etc and aside from my opening wisecrack about the French <g> will try to keep
my comments confined to the actions of your governments.
>Oh.. the stories I can tell you of US citizens working in Albania, Kossovo
>before the issue was brought up and how they fled before military action was
>taken. Dont get me started dude.<
Actually, I can believe pretty much anything about my fellow Americans. I
*live* here, after all :-)
RWG (and we do some pretty stupid things in our OWN backyards :-)
Count 1
*****
Will G. Bush, the oil tycoon D. Cheney and the oil-dry UK allow the rest of
Europe to get access to it ??? Of course not!
So, I suggest you remain faithful to your brainwashed thinking that USA and
UK fight for freedom and the let the politicians fight for the real purposes
. PETROLEUM - OIL = Gas = "MONEY, dollar signs!"
*****
Ludicrous. If this was about oil they'd be invading Venezuala. This is
about something bigger than oil, its about the UN's capacity to be effective
in its role. For a dozen years Iraq has pussy footed around the obligations
it agreed to at the end of the gulf war, a conflict he started and had
months to avoid - if you recall.
This is about saving the lives of muslims - to demonstrate that secular -
christian states are not going to turn their backs when their large and
aggressive neighbor comes rolling into town in a military convoy.
****
BTW, who on Earth, Vulcan or Cardassia has appointed USA as the Planet's
Police ?
It was a nice wall actually. Full of graffiti. A tourist attraction. A
momument of human vanity.
****
Now you deserve this. FUCK YOU!
That wall was responisble for outrageous levels of human suffering. That
wall was a symbol of totalitarian governance and the 'jails' it creates for
people. That wall had to come down - and no one - repeat NO ONE - with a
semblance of humanity could come to any other conclusion.
*****
Captain Red Beard, your reason is far...far away from any Federation logic.
Long live Logic & Peace.
*****
Considering what you just said about the berlin wall - you can imagine what
we think of your condemnation regarding CRB.
RWGibson13
>> The US has so many other weapons in its arsenal that the only way any
>President
>> will order a nuclear strike is if someone else does it first.<<
>Um perhaps you could remind me of a few things.
>
You're not seriously going to try and compare the people and governments and
wartime situations of the US of 1943 to those of today?
Sorry, I'm not EVEN going to go there.
If Bush, in particular, thought that way, there'd currently be a relatively
large area of Afghanistan that would be radioactive right now. But, of course,
he doesn't.
As the American people don't.
I don't know if any non-Americans truly understand what the mood of this
country was like immediately after 9/11. I've never seen anything like it. My
mother had never seen anything like it. My grandfather had, but that was only
because he was stationed AT Pearl Harbor during the Japanese attack. If we
didn't use nukes after 9/11 I very strongly doubt we ever will.
Unless, of course, they are used against us, which is where I came into this.
>It may surprise you to learn tha I support the current war, and Australias
>alliance with the US,<
Not at all. I'm not dogmatic about these things and I certainly realize how
some people can be torn about alliances.
>however my faith lies in the US people and ideals, I do
>not trust your politicians any more than i do our own <
Hey, we generally don't trust 'em either - our country was BASED on a healthy
non-trust of government. Check out our Constitution sometime. Especially the
Bill of Rights. There's a reason why most of the Amendments start out:
"Congress shall NOT..." <g>
>they will use nukes any time it is politically expedient.<
And I just told you the only time I can realistically see when it WOULD be
"politically expedient."
>Nukes on Japan had nothing to do with
>saving allied lives, it had everything to do with sending a message
>to Stalin that America was now thr boss. IE it was a political not a
>military decision.<
Well, I'm not going to get into a debate with you here about what went into the
decision to drop those first two, but I really do disagree with your opinions
about how much of it was about "saving allied lives." Were my grandfather here
(and able to see to type), he'd have a few words to add too...
RWG (but the world's a totally different place now)
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> The Highlander \(aka Gordon\) (Highlan...@yahoo.com) wrote:
> : <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote
> : > Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> : > : Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
whimp
> : > : assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to
prevent
> : the
> : > : elimination of absolute scum?
> : > Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics, and
don't
> : > realize that the Security Council may not consider the issues
surrounding
> : > Iraq in a rational fashion.
>
> : "uninformed about the UN" means what exactly? It's a democratic forum
which
> : is inclusive of all points of view. If the point of view expressed
differes
> : from yours, tough, that's democracy for you, someone will always
dis-agree.
>
> Democratic? In a sense, the way South Africa was democratic, because
> whites could vote.
>
> If all the members of the UN were democratic countries, THEN the UN would
> be democratic, and inclusive of the different points of view of all the
> peoples of the world - instead of some of the peoples of the world, and
> the oppressors of the other peoples of the world.
I see. So the fact that the representatives there are sent by a country with
whom you have idealogical differences invalidates the forum itself? I am
awed by the sheer arrogance displayed in this attitude displayed by you and
others. The arrogance that allows you to decide that *your* way is better
than some other way and impose it. The UN is quite simply the only world
forum, it's the only game in town. Indeed I would agree that some of the
countries of the UN are run by oppressive governments, however that does not
make the UN invalid, or irrelevent. If you by your opinions and views choose
to ignore it, then that is your choice, personally I think a forum in which
the governments of the world are equally represented is a fine thing that
should be supported and nurtured in order to improve and enhance not just
that forum, but the governance of the peoples of the world. How do you
suggest we change other countries? By means of war, or by persuasion? You
can't impose your morallity or values on other people, that is one of the
very simple lessons of Trek and it's true here and now.
Eurotrek
disappointed that you, just like many other people on the other side of the
Atlantic, believe 100% what their government tells them.
The Yugoslavian issue WAS and always has been an internal matter of theirs
that was exaggerated. History will prove this.
(Not in American history books though).
I believe you when you say Americans do some pretty stupid things in their
backyards. Trust me, I know...
My wife is American, I am not (as you probably already know).
Enough said, this has gotten out of subject and out of control. For once
more, we have not managed to solve global problems
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A toast. To the UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY.
(huhhhh???)
The FUTURE.
If we are to live in a world with Peace, our generations will have the
hardest time to adjust.
-Gorkon-
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eurotrek - and the Trek continues.
"RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030128114033...@mb-mm.aol.com...
Eurotrek
other hand, Chavez (is that his name??) is a US "friend" and pretty capable
of keeping things going this way or the other way.
Muslims are pretty capable of handling things their way just fine. Its only
when Westerners interfere that things get out of control.
The Berlin Wall was and still is a monument of Human Vanity. Standing in the
middle of the city, to prove that people might separate people, but hearts
are united.
You failed to see the humour in the comment of mine. And you used foul
language. I did NOT use the -F- word against you. You did.
The wall came down and the 2 Germanies united and I was mostly happy that,
that shame was finally ended.
But let me share with you something. If I was German and an American came to
me and told me something like - Yup!! That wall came down thanks to good ol'
USA - I would use the - F- word. If I was German.
English is not my primary language. Greek is. And I am proud that my English
is far better than the average English speaking person's.
And since USA is the Planet's Police, were was USA 29 years ago when Turkey
invaded Cyprus and still today occupies 40% of the island ? - Where was
your advanced sensibility then ? -
Gone with the wind ? Probably because Cyprus has no oil ? Yeah... I thought
so too.
Keep on living in Dreamland dear Count. Our world is more messed up than
what you think it is.
I still wish you my best, for a happy rest of the day.
Live long and prosper.
Dan
"Count 1" <Omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b16chs$usv9a$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> >
> >And what do you know about Bosnia ? Do you, even today, know where
Bosnia,
> >Kossovo, Serbia are located ?<
>
> uh, yeah. Not all of us are ignorant of geography over here on this side
of the
> Atlantic.
>
> >The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown
up
> >by USA as an excuse to show EU who the boss is, in the heart of Europe.<
>
> "an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up?" English must be your
> second language, because I can't really believe you meant to use that
> particular phrasing.
I think he meant blow out of proportion, I don't agree with him, but I
thought his meaning was pretty clear.
As far as the former Yugoslavia is concerned. I don't agree it was blown out
of proportion in the sense that crimes against humanity on par, with those
committed during WWII we committed. On par in terms of the acts, not the
scale. Nor would I even be content to say it was a matter of internal
security since Yugoslavia is a country that was pieced together and held
together by the Soviet Union. Once that control was absent the
disintegration was almost inevitable.
Count 1
> Muslims are pretty capable of handling things their way just fine. Its
only
> when Westerners interfere that things get out of control.
First you demonstrate a lack of knowledge of geopolitics, now islamic
history. I'd ask for my money back on my education if I were you.
Muslims are incapable of handling things their way at all, and the last 30
years have galvanized that fact. When westerners 'interfere' ( funny how
this 'interference' is so often by invitation ) is when peace and calm
actually return.
Clearly the only thing you know about the Islamic world is what moral
relativists have told you about the region.
> The Berlin Wall was and still is a monument of Human Vanity. Standing in
the
> middle of the city, to prove that people might separate people, but hearts
> are united.
> You failed to see the humour in the comment of mine. And you used foul
> language. I did NOT use the -F- word against you. You did.
You deserved it. If you don't like it, fuck off.
> The wall came down and the 2 Germanies united and I was mostly happy that,
> that shame was finally ended.
'Mostly'? What part of you wasn't?
> But let me share with you something. If I was German and an American came
to
> me and told me something like - Yup!! That wall came down thanks to good
ol'
> USA - I would use the - F- word. If I was German.
> English is not my primary language. Greek is. And I am proud that my
English
> is far better than the average English speaking person's.
Irrelevant tangent.
> And since USA is the Planet's Police, were was USA 29 years ago when
Turkey
> invaded Cyprus and still today occupies 40% of the island ? - Where was
> your advanced sensibility then ? -
> Gone with the wind ? Probably because Cyprus has no oil ? Yeah... I
thought
> so too.
Answering your own questions? How open minded of you. BTW - Canada ( my
country ) has been in Cyprus for years trying to negotiate a peace.
Do you have a solution for Cyprus which addresses the long animosity between
greece and turkey? ::snicker::
> Keep on living in Dreamland dear Count.
??
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> Dans un moment de folie, jsa...@ecn.ab.ca () écrivit:
>
> > Captain Red Beard (capt_re...@hotmail.com) wrote:
> >: Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
> >: whimp assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going
> >: to prevent the elimination of absolute scum?
> >
> > Many Canadians are uninformed about the U.N. and world politics,
> > and don't realize that the Security Council may not consider the
> > issues surrounding Iraq in a rational fashion.
> >
> > Liberal party has been able to maintain an almost constant hold on
> > power through manipulating the fears of Canada's French-language
> > minority.
> >
> > Thus, the positions of the Canadian government often do not
> > reflect the true pro-American feelings of the majority of
> > Canadians.
>
> Have you been smoking crack?
Apparently the answer would be, yes, frequently.
RWGibson13
>I am really happy that you are geographically literate. But I am really
>disappointed that you, just like many other people on the other side of the
>Atlantic, believe 100% what their government tells them<
Actually, most of what I know about Sloban and Bosnia and "Greater Serbia," I
learned from watching the accounts on CNN. Like most Americans, I wasn't
really all that interested until we started getting involved. Actually, most
of the folks I know here in the US did *not* want to get involved in that at
all, thinking it a European matter. Mainly it was (and still is) the idea of
having US troops under UN commanders that bothers most Americans I know and
that was the reason given by most for not getting involved. Even after all
this time, a very large percentage of the American public simply does not trust
the United Nations to be able to get things done. It's *not* just our
government IMO. It's the people.
>I believe you when you say Americans do some pretty stupid things in their
>backyards. Trust me, I know...
>My wife is American, I am not (as you probably already know).<
And I'm an American who was born in Neubrucke, Germany and still drives a '75
VW Bug. The world gets smaller every year :-)
>Enough said, this has gotten out of subject and out of control. For once
>more, we have not managed to solve global problems<
Well, we're in pretty good company there...
RWG (if that's any consolation)
Ta'
> Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
Of course you have. You keep thinking that.
> > *rigged*? LOL Now thats just amasingly stupid. Was the election
> > debatable, yeah. Rigged? Nah. Go stick your head back in the ground.
>
> "Stick my head back in the ground ?" I am amazed by the high level of
> conversation here.
>
> Is that all you can say or you can do worse ?
Thats all I'm wasting on you.
Ta'
"fozzi bear" <fozzi...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3E369172...@optusnet.com.au...> > news:b14i05$ri3$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...
> >
> > > Europe is now a land of Peace.
> >
> > I'm sure they thought that in the mid 1930's too...
> >
> > > The US elections were rigged, fixed or what ever else you wish to call
it.
> > It takes anyone outside USA to see it.
> >
> > *rigged*? LOL Now thats just amasingly stupid. Was the election
> > debatable, yeah. Rigged? Nah. Go stick your head back in the ground.
>
> in Florida, a State run by one of the contestants siblings, if the
election
> were completely honest Jed would've disqualified himself from having any
> say in the matter on the grounds of a conflict of interests.
IIRC, Jeb didnt have much say. IIRC, it was the Florida Secrectary of
State, Local and State Supreme courts...
Eurotrek
> First you demonstrate a lack of knowledge of geopolitics, now islamic
> history. I'd ask for my money back on my education if I were you.
Are you implying that Arabian countries are not capable of ruling them
selves ? Then clearly the Prime Directive does not apply to you.
What makes you an expert on int'l politics anyway ?
You are not qualified to judge my level of education and define the limits
of my knowledge.
> Muslims are incapable of handling things their way at all, and the last 30
> years have galvanized that fact. When westerners 'interfere' ( funny how
> this 'interference' is so often by invitation ) is when peace and calm
> actually return.
>
> Clearly the only thing you know about the Islamic world is what moral
> relativists have told you about the region.
>
> > The Berlin Wall was and still is a monument of Human Vanity. Standing in
> the
> > middle of the city, to prove that people might separate people, but
hearts
> > are united.
> > You failed to see the humour in the comment of mine. And you used foul
> > language. I did NOT use the -F- word against you. You did.
>
> You deserved it. If you don't like it, fuck off.
I still dont like the - F- comment. It is my right not to. You are more
than welcome to demosntrate your higher intelectuality by using the
sentiment over and over again.
> > The wall came down and the 2 Germanies united and I was mostly happy
that,
> > that shame was finally ended.
> 'Mostly'? What part of you wasn't?
0.68 % (nitpicker....)
> > But let me share with you something. If I was German and an American
came
> to
> > me and told me something like - Yup!! That wall came down thanks to good
> ol'
> > USA - I would use the - F- word. If I was German.
> > English is not my primary language. Greek is. And I am proud that my
> English
> > is far better than the average English speaking person's.
>
> Irrelevant tangent.
How ? You implied that comment very strongly.
> > And since USA is the Planet's Police, were was USA 29 years ago when
> Turkey
> > invaded Cyprus and still today occupies 40% of the island ? - Where was
> > your advanced sensibility then ? -
> > Gone with the wind ? Probably because Cyprus has no oil ? Yeah... I
> thought
> > so too.
>
> Answering your own questions? How open minded of you. BTW - Canada ( my
> country ) has been in Cyprus for years trying to negotiate a peace.
Yes. Answering your own question is called a "Rhetoric question".
Canada was in Cyprus ? You mean that Canada moved their land next to Cyprus
? Dear fella, Canada doesnt fit in that part of the Mediterranean Sea. Go
back to school and study Geography.
So, unless you meant anything other than Canada moving to Cyprus, say it
clearly.
> Do you have a solution for Cyprus which addresses the long animosity
between
> greece and turkey? ::snicker::
I do. Do you?
> > Keep on living in Dreamland dear Count.
>
> ??
Double [ ?? ] back to you.
Dan
RWGibson13
>> "an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up?" English must be your
>> second language, because I can't really believe you meant to use that
>> particular phrasing.
>
>I think he meant blow out of proportion, I don't agree with him, but I
>thought his meaning was pretty clear.<
Actually, so did I, but I still questioned the phrasing because I don't think
he really meant to say that it was blown out of proportion because that would
seem to mean he was downplaying what actually went on there and I just can't
understand that kind of apparent ambivelence towards atrocities going on in his
own backyard.
But also seeing his "joke" about the Berlin Wall, I guess I'm just going to
have to adjust to the fact that not everyone sees the same gravity in the
situations as I do. My father was stationed in Germany for many years and I'm
afraid that the coming generations of Europeans are going to quickly forget
that the sacrifices (both financial and in blood) made by the US and the Allies
(yes, including France and West Germany) in stemming Stalinist and Soviet
aggression in good part LED to the current economic and political upswing in
Europe currently.
RWG (now they don't have to commit all those resources to defense)
Ta'
> The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter
Oh, well, THAT makes it all ok....
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
"The Highlander (aka Gordon)" <Highlan...@yahoo.com> wrote
> "RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote
> > >
> > >And what do you know about Bosnia ? Do you, even today, know where
> Bosnia,
> > >Kossovo, Serbia are located ?<
> >
> > uh, yeah. Not all of us are ignorant of geography over here on this side
> of the
> > Atlantic.
> >
> > >The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter that was
blown
> up
> > >by USA as an excuse to show EU who the boss is, in the heart of
Europe.<
> >
> > "an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up?" English must be
your
> > second language, because I can't really believe you meant to use that
> > particular phrasing.
>
> I think he meant blow out of proportion, I don't agree with him, but I
> thought his meaning was pretty clear.
>
> As far as the former Yugoslavia is concerned. I don't agree it was blown
out
> of proportion in the sense that crimes against humanity on par, with those
> committed during WWII we committed.
should read....
"As far as the former Yugoslavia is concerned, I don't agree that it was
blown out of proportion in the sense that the crimes committed there were
crimes against humanity. Those crimes seem on a par with those that were
committed during WWII."
Please excuse my brain fart.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> > > Look, how are we ever going to get to the dream of 'Star Trek' if
whimp
> > > assed countries like Canada, France, and Germany are going to prevent
> the
> > > elimination of absolute scum?
> > > God Damn the Canadians, God Damn the French, and God Damn the Germans.
> > >
> > > And damn it all, Canada, could you please do something to keep Celine
> > > Dion from singing? CATERWALL.
> > >
> > > Long Live America.
> >
> > I see you have given up on reasonable and headed straight into troll
> > territory. I won't bother answering except to say that your attitude
> > accurately represents the resons why people in other countries loathe
> > America withought even knowing thing one about America. Thank you so
much
> > for being the 'Ugly American', it saved someone else from doing it, but
> now
> > it's done, can you go, the party doesn't need a fist fight.
>
> Well, C'mon, ya gotta admit, he had a point about Celine... sounds like a
> cat stuffed in a bangpipe... shoved in an organ...
>
> <eg>
Well yeah, that goes without saying doesn't it?
Count 1
> selves ?
Almost. Look at 'arabian countries'. Look at infant mortality rates,
standards of living, human rights violations, trade deficits. Its a big
question - it deserves a big answer.
> Then clearly the Prime Directive does not apply to you.
Hey looney tunes.....The Prime Directive is fiction.
> What makes you an expert on int'l politics anyway ?
What difference does it make where I get my knowledge? The question
is....can you address it?
> You are not qualified to judge my level of education and define the limits
> of my knowledge.
You know....I agree with you. I am not qualified to assess your educational
or knowledge levels. Lets leave that to the professionals.
However your posts are full of stupid things. So I just naturally assumed
by extension.......
> > 'Mostly'? What part of you wasn't?
>
> 0.68 % (nitpicker....)
Is that supposed to be funny?
> Yes. Answering your own question is called a "Rhetoric question".
> Canada was in Cyprus ? You mean that Canada moved their land next to
Cyprus
> ? Dear fella, Canada doesnt fit in that part of the Mediterranean Sea. Go
> back to school and study Geography.
> So, unless you meant anything other than Canada moving to Cyprus, say it
> clearly.
I'm sorry - clearly you are retarded. I shouldn't have assumed you have
even rudimentary intelligence.
Canada, for years, had envoys - ambassadors - negotiators on the island
attempting to negotiate a peaceful solution. Joe Clark was one of them.
> > Do you have a solution for Cyprus which addresses the long animosity
> between
> > greece and turkey? ::snicker::
>
> I do. Do you?
LOL! Then - mes amigo - you'd be worth a lot more money and be a
significantly more important person than someone who posts to Usenet at Trek
discussion boards!!
RWGibson13
>> Well, C'mon, ya gotta admit, he had a point about Celine... sounds like a
>> cat stuffed in a bangpipe... shoved in an organ...
>>
>> <eg>
>
>Well yeah, that goes without saying doesn't it?
>
Not that we're doing OUR part in that particular area of international pain and
suffering. Heck, even WITH all the drugs she got, we couldn't keep Mariah
Carey out of the recording studio...
RWG (...and off the airwaves)
Ta'
>
> Enough said, this has gotten out of subject and out of control. For once
> more, we have not managed to solve global problems
But hey, at least you live in PEACE...
Ta'
>
> > Keep on living in Dreamland dear Count.
>
> ??
Yeah, good thing his English is so good.
chibiangi
Sascha <redfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18a0b76e9...@news.space.net...
> In article <20030128094719...@mb-mm.aol.com>, rwgibson13
> @aol.com says...
> > >
> > >Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
> > >
> >
ended in
> > Bosnia? Pardon me if I think the countries over there need a bit more
time
> > before anyone can make that kind of declarative statement.
>
> ? ? ?
> At least we are not threatening with a nuclear strike
And Americans are?
Fucking dumbasses.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FEB MBC Sushi!Girlie
"When I bite into a York Peppermint Patty, I get the sensation of
performing oral sex
on a poorly constructed snowman standing in the yard of people I have never
met."-ad
"My career lets me travel to all kinds of great overseas places, like
Canada."
-Britney Spears
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ta'
"The Highlander (aka Gordon)" <Highlan...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b16jna$vria1$1...@ID-120397.news.dfncis.de...
> > Well, C'mon, ya gotta admit, he had a point about Celine... sounds like
a
> > cat stuffed in a bangpipe... shoved in an organ...
> >
> > <eg>
>
> Well yeah, that goes without saying doesn't it?
Obviously!
Louis M. Brown
<eeeur...@eeemailbox.gr> wrote:
>Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
Learned what? When the SHTF, call the USA?
<snip>
-LMB
Louis M. Brown
<redfiel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <20030128094719...@mb-mm.aol.com>, rwgibson13
>@aol.com says...
>> >
>> >Here in Europe we have learned from the mistakes of the past.
>> >
>>
>> It's only been, what, three or four years since the "ethnic clensing" ended in
>> Bosnia? Pardon me if I think the countries over there need a bit more time
>> before anyone can make that kind of declarative statement.
>
>? ? ?
>At least we are not threatening with a nuclear strike
Just who is supposed to be threatening anyone with nukes?
-LMB
>
Louis M. Brown
<eeeur...@eeemailbox.gr> wrote:
>And what do you know about Bosnia ? Do you, even today, know where Bosnia,
>Kossovo, Serbia are located ?
Gotta love them strawmen.....
>The "ethnic cleansing" was an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up
>by USA as an excuse to show EU who the boss is,
Well, whoopty fucking do, I guess Hitler's slaughtering of the Jews
was merely an 'internal matter that was blown up by the USA."
Before you attempt to scream "Godwin!," explain the difference between
the slaughter of Jews and the slaughter of Serbs.
> in the heart of Europe.
>Dont get me wrong here, I am totally against any kind of racial
>discrimination (unlike you who seem to have a "thing" for Europeans).
Considering that Euros are mostly caucasian, there's not much chance
of a race dispute here.
>Oh.. the stories I can tell you of US citizens working in Albania, Kossovo
>before the issue was brought up and how they fled before military action was
>taken. Dont get me started dude.
>
>Dan
>
Go right ahead.
-LMB
Louis M. Brown
<eeeur...@eeemailbox.gr> wrote:
>I am really happy that you are geographically literate. But I am really
>disappointed that you, just like many other people on the other side of the
>Atlantic, believe 100% what their government tells them.
>
>The Yugoslavian issue WAS and always has been an internal matter of theirs
>that was exaggerated. History will prove this.
>(Not in American history books though).
Mass murder is merely an internal matter?
<SNIP>
-LMB
Charlie C.
news:b16e4p$vub4p$1...@ID-120397.news.dfncis.de:
>
> I see. So the fact that the representatives there are sent by a country
> with whom you have idealogical differences invalidates the forum
> itself? I am awed by the sheer arrogance displayed in this attitude
> displayed by you and others. The arrogance that allows you to decide
> that *your* way is better than some other way and impose it.
Well, if the "other" ways were by the consent of the people being ruled that
would be one thing. But do Libyans and Syrians and Chinese and Cubans and
Iraqis and North Koreans, etc...get to choose their form of government? And
can they leave if they don't like it? Can they change it if they dont' like
it? Can they kick a bumb ruler out?
Its not different forms of governements that are the problem, its the means
by wich those other government come into being that's in question.
Able Spacer Kelly
>
>
> state - backtrack - rescind - restate. When this is the pattern one thing
> is for certain. Canada will be there - UN mandate or not. It won't mean
> much strategically, it will mean more politically.
>
> Two thoughts ;
> 1) this isn't a concern anyway because you're gonna get the resolution.
> 2) Canada's military contingent is inconsequential compared to the US's.
>
>
>
"For want of a nail, the shoe was lost..."
Never fear, dude, Canada will do their part. Size isn't everything.
Kelly
Count 1
Able Spacer Kelly <vll...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TnCZ9.3$yJM2....@news2.randori.com...
It isn't? Maybe there's hope for me after all....
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
No one has doubted that the atrocities in Yugoslavia were nothing less than crimes against humanity. And no one (including my self) has doubted that everyone behind those acts HAD to be punished. You cannot possibly imagine what it feels to see refugees from all those former Yugoslavian republics flooding Greece in large numbers, being everywhere, begging for 100 damn Drachmas (we didn't have Euros those days) to survive. And I know. I live 1 hour from the border with Albania and 3 hours from the border with FYROM. And since my city is the largest city in western Greece, it was the closest paradise for them.
At the same time, I came to know several US citizens who had "mysterious" (under the US government) jobs in Albania and Serbia. I got to meet them through my job (I am running a retail store).
But the whole thing was "exaggerated" in the sense that within a short period of time, it was presented that the entire Serbian nation was nothing more than Albanian/Moslem haters and Serbia was presented as a cruel nation.
Apart from the para-military groups that were raiding Moslem/Albanian areas, the vast majority of the Serbian population was condemning those acts or simply tolerating simply because there isn't much you can do when your government wont do much about it. Lets not forget the UCK, the Albanian liberation army, who's atrocities were even worse than the ones of the Serbian para-military groups. But who mentioned UCK and their share of killing/raping/torturing ? No one, cause let me tell you, they were part of the grand US plan.
And then USA enters the game, accusing the entire Serbia of being Albanian/Moslem haters, while my American friends fled Albania & Serbia ("back home, since our job here is done" as the wife of one of the US guys told me).
Serbia was almost vanished from the world map after the attack, while the Serbian population fairly protested " WHY???" Why do children have to die for one's person's actions?. Why don't USA and their allies go after those para-military groups instead of destroying the country ?.
Questions unanswered even till today. Many hypotheses though. USA might have wanted to show the growing EU who is the boss, inside Europe's most "fragile" area. They found an excuse, used Serbia as the "enemy" and the way we go!!!!.
What about UCK ?. Used by the US in counter "ethnic cleansing" against Serbians and then dropped by the US to their own terrorizing everyone in the Balkans.
USA might have wanted to exhibit new weapon systems to possible buyers. What a better chance..right ? And indeed, many of the weapon systems were bought (including Greece & Turkey, the 2 best customers in US made weaponry).
If I managed to make some sense over here (with my poor English), that's why US "exaggerated" the events and forced the int'l community to view only the one side of the coin; just the Serbian atrocities, while the Moslem's atrocities were left behind as a well kept secret.
Every coin has two sides. And Americans (even family and friends I have in USA) saw only one side.
I do care what's going on in my neighbourhood. A lot.
As far as the Berlin wall, it means a lot to me. I come from a family that has offered a lot to WWII, fighting the Nazis, joining the Resistance and fighting with the Allies in Egypt and in Italy. And I have served in the Greek Army my self as a Lieutenant, so certain things turn rather ...sensitive after serving in the border with Turkey, knowing that the slightest mistake means that a bullet with your name on is on its way.
Forgive my ranting, but I have stated on another post of mine, we have failed to solve the world's problems once more.
War is NOT the solution.
I am also disappointed to see that many dearly beloved Trekkies on this group, have failed to understand what Star Trek is all about : The Prime Directive, The -don't fight back until you eliminate all chances for talk- dogma and Co-operation to make this world a better place.
A toast Ladies and Gentlemen : The Undiscovered Country, the Future.
Our world needs a Kirk, to take the necessary decisions and a Picard to negotiate those decisions.
Live long and prosper
Eurotrek - and the Trek continues... -
"RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030128134736...@mb-fa.aol.com...
:
: >> "an internal Yugoslavian matter that was blown up?" English must be your
:
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
Dan
"Ta'" <tat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b16ipm$utdoj$1...@ID-119704.news.dfncis.de...
: Thats all I'm wasting on you.
The Highlander (aka Gordon)
> > with whom you have idealogical differences invalidates the forum
> > itself? I am awed by the sheer arrogance displayed in this attitude
> > displayed by you and others. The arrogance that allows you to decide
> > that *your* way is better than some other way and impose it.
>
> Well, if the "other" ways were by the consent of the people being ruled
that
> would be one thing. But do Libyans and Syrians and Chinese and Cubans and
> Iraqis and North Koreans, etc...get to choose their form of government?
And
> can they leave if they don't like it? Can they change it if they dont'
like
> it? Can they kick a bumb ruler out?
>
> Its not different forms of governements that are the problem, its the
means
> by wich those other government come into being that's in question.
That's fine and well, and I don't disagree regarding the desirability of
such forms of government, however those governments, like it or not, do
represent their countries. Do you think that it would do any good at all for
the US to question the legitimacy of China's form of government? Do you
think that the UN should have some arbitrary standard of government required
of all it's members?
The discussion centered on the democracy of the UN, not of the world. As a
forum it is democratic as each of the representatives can speak and vote in
the same way as any other. The UK is as important as the US who are in turn
as important as China, regardless of population or economy. Only in the
security council is this not true. The security council is of course
something of a hold over from the cold war.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
Read History.
Dan
"Louis M. Brown" <phy...@rocketmail.com> wrote in message news:ltpd3vsp8dtbm0f9e...@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:19:36 +0200, "Eurotrek"
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
I have family in USA and we were on the phone the rest of that day, trying to give courage to my mother in law, who was terrified.
So, yes I am Greek and I know.
Dan
"RWGibson13" <rwgib...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030128120915...@mb-mm.aol.com...
: I don't know if any non-Americans truly understand what the mood of this
: country was like immediately after 9/11. I've never seen anything like it. My
: mother had never seen anything like it. My grandfather had, but that was only
: because he was stationed AT Pearl Harbor during the Japanese attack. If we
: didn't use nukes after 9/11 I very strongly doubt we ever will.
:
Able Spacer Kelly
>
> ****
> BTW, who on Earth, Vulcan or Cardassia has appointed USA as the Planet's
> Police ?
> It was a nice wall actually. Full of graffiti. A tourist attraction. A
> momument of human vanity.
> ****
>
> Now you deserve this. FUCK YOU!
> That wall was responisble for outrageous levels of human suffering. That
> wall was a symbol of totalitarian governance and the 'jails' it creates
for
> people. That wall had to come down - and no one - repeat NO ONE - with a
> semblance of humanity could come to any other conclusion.
>
Agreed. The wall *had* to come down. (for simbolic reasons, if for no other)
However (and IIRC, this was done), a portion should be left standing as a
monument to human cruelty and stupidity. We need to be reminded often so as
to avoid repeating our mistakes (as we are wont to do).
Kelly
.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
>: didn't get the basic point regarding Greece and US influence in the world?
>: And how being the lesser of the two countries might cause some jealousy?
What makes you think that I am feeling bad of Greece's position in the world ? That I am Greek living in Greece ?
You obviously have not met any Greeks in your life, have you ?
> : ?? I hesitate to ask this - uncertain of the various vectors of idiocy you
>: are going to go down - but what 'theory'?
The globally known Theory that Americans divide the people of this planet in two categories : Those who are Americans and those who are jealous that they are not Americans.
I do not totally accept this theory since I have met many Americans here in Greece, in the US, done business with them, still doing business with them. You obviously belong to the small part of Americans known to be "stupid". Thankfully, your "stupid" population group is small. Unfortunately, your current President is a member.
Dan
"Count 1" <Omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b16au1$1007jd$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
:
:
: BTW - refering to the fact that greece is closer than the US to Kuwait - I
: demonstrated a good knowledge of global geography. Unfortunately it was a
: much smaller issue than the geopolitical one I was discussing, and in fact
: only using it to make a point in that subject.
Count 1
What makes you think that I am feeling bad of Greece's position in the world
?
Nothing - and since I didn't indicate I did think that ...oh....never mind.
***
You obviously belong to the small part of Americans known to be "stupid".
Thankfully, your "stupid" population group is small. Unfortunately, your
current President is a member.
***
?? Did you forget I'm Canadian? Canada doesn't have a president.
Good day.
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
: Almost. Look at 'arabian countries'. Look at infant mortality rates,
: standards of living, human rights violations, trade deficits. Its a big
: question - it deserves a big answer.
In Iraq, infant mortality rates are high, due to the US embargo that prevents Iraq doctors from having access, otherwise considered, "buy at the counter medication".
As far the other Arabian countries, unless they ask for help from the int'l community (and those who have they got it) why interfere ?
You are not talking into consideration the Moslem religion and the rules imposed to people. Who are you, or me or anyone else to tell them what's right or wrong ? Your right & wrong ? My right & wrong ?
There is *no* Right or Wrong. Just opinions. And no one can force anybody else's opinion. Except for USA of course, with the use of military power.
: > Then clearly the Prime Directive does not apply to you.
: Hey looney tunes.....The Prime Directive is fiction.
Oh really ? Then why do you hang around this group ? To mock Trekkers ? Get out!
: > What makes you an expert on int'l politics anyway ?
:
: What difference does it make where I get my knowledge? The question
: is....can you address it?
Sure. Send me your address and I will properly address it (This is where you laugh you humorless Cardassian).
: > You are not qualified to judge my level of education and define the limits
: > of my knowledge.
:
: You know....I agree with you. I am not qualified to assess your educational
: or knowledge levels. Lets leave that to the professionals.
: However your posts are full of stupid things. So I just naturally assumed
: by extension.......
:
Didnt they teach you in school to not assume anything ? Didnt your teachers tell you to ask if you dont know ?
: > > 'Mostly'? What part of you wasn't?
: >
: > 0.68 % (nitpicker....)
:
: Is that supposed to be funny?
Yes. Very
:
: > Yes. Answering your own question is called a "Rhetoric question".
: > Canada was in Cyprus ? You mean that Canada moved their land next to
: Cyprus
: > ? Dear fella, Canada doesnt fit in that part of the Mediterranean Sea. Go
: > back to school and study Geography.
: > So, unless you meant anything other than Canada moving to Cyprus, say it
: > clearly.
:
: I'm sorry - clearly you are retarded. I shouldn't have assumed you have
: even rudimentary intelligence.
Ah...clearly, a "Rhetoric question" is beyond your limited brain usage capabilities. What can an "assumer" understand from fine print such as dialogue techniques established 3,000 years ago by higher intelectual Greeks, the very same era that Canadians did not exist not even in the most wildest visions of Lukianos ?
: Canada, for years, had envoys - ambassadors - negotiators on the island
: attempting to negotiate a peaceful solution. Joe Clark was one of them.
Good. Why dont you join them ?
: > > Do you have a solution for Cyprus which addresses the long animosity
: > between
: > > greece and turkey? ::snicker::
: >
: > I do. Do you?
:
: LOL! Then - mes amigo - you'd be worth a lot more money and be a
: significantly more important person than someone who posts to Usenet at Trek
: discussion boards!!
Is there a problem ? Posting to Usenet is a problem ? Why .... amigo, you aint no better!!!!!
Dan
Dan "EuroTrek" Daniels
And a very good day to you.
See you around the Usenet.
Dan
"Count 1" <Omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:b16tui$103uor$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
: ****
:
:
:
jsa...@ecn.ab.ca
: LOL! Then - mes amigo - you'd be worth a lot more money and be a
: significantly more important person than someone who posts to Usenet at Trek
: discussion boards!!
Hey, I have a very simple solution to the problem of Cyprus.
Send the Turks packing back to where they came from - in Central Asia -
giving Cyprus back to the Greeks, and Asia Minor back to the Greeks (in
the coastal areas) and the Armenians.
After all, the "long animosity between the Greeks and the Turks" is all
due to past aggression by Turkey against Greece, and in no part due to any
Greek aggression against Turkey.
This would address the problem nicely, ensuring a complete absence, in the
future, of any more violence between Greeks and Turks.
After September 11, 2001, the prospect of a similar type of solution to
the problems in the Middle East involving conflict with Israel no longer
seems utterly remote.
John Savard