[ENTERPRISE] [SPOILERS] The "Affliction" We Share
Bozo the Evil Klown
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Who we are, as individuals as well as societies, is always changing:
Changing to meet different environmental factors, changing from normal
growth and education... and even arbitrarily forced, at times, into
abnormal growth. Sometimes the change is leisurely enough to give us a
chance to get used to it, sometimes it just happens in one sudden
terrifying apotheosis. And sometimes all that is actually changed is
that we know some key fact about a person or society that fits and
unites various previously disparate facts...
We open with a Klingon prisoner being forcibly "volunteered" for an
experiment: He's hooked up to a fluorescent IV drip, which suddenly
starts agonizing him as his head ridges start softening. Cut to
Enterprise returning to Earth for the launch of her sister ship
Columbia. Trip is preparing to transfer to the new ship, and even
prepared to deny to T'Pol that he's leaving because of her.
On Earth Hoshi and Phlox are just leaving their favorite restaurant
when they are attacked; Hoshi is clubbed unconscious and Phlox is
abducted. Investigation reveals an ionized pattern that might be left
from a transporter. Reed checks the satellite logs to find they were
taken down for maintenance at that time. He keeps digging until a Man
In Black contacts him and tells him to meet on the surface. Reed has a
history with the man, who tells him that he has an assignment for Reed-
and it may be the only way to retrieve Phlox alive.
Phlox by then is at a Klingon outpost. The Klingons have been
experimenting with Augment DNA (from embryos left in the wreckage of
the Bird of Prey the Augments pirated). Their success is limited:
their Augments do gain increased strength and intelligence, but then
their nervous system crashes and they die. The aggressive Augment DNA
has not only erased the test subjects brow ridges, but it's mutated a
flu virus to carry the smooth-forehead syndrome among the general
Klingon population.
The Klingons are sterilizing their colonies where the disease has taken
hold, Phlox has been taken because one Klingon doctor remembered his
work in viruses; they want him to develop a cure. He's racing the
clock, though, as the Klingon fleet has embarked on their own errand of
mercy to destroy any outpost or colony where the disease has taken
root.
Back on Enterprise Hoshi is trying to remember what the attackers said,
and with Archer kibitzing- ummm, I mean, *coaching* T'Pol mind-melds
with Hoshi and recovers one of the attackers saying "Bring him with us"
in Rigellian. Records show a Rigellian freighter leaving orbit two
hours after the attack, after filing a flight plan that didn't match
their actual course out.
With the crew recalled Enterprise goes in pursuit. They find the
freighter shot to hell, though all the bodies in the wreckage are
Rigellian. Reed examines the weapons' signatures, but then deletes the
window before Archer can see it and offers the opinion that Orion
raiders might have attacked them.
Instead of Orions a Klingon Bird of Prey attacks Enterprise. While
trading shots the Klingons beam a boarding party into Enterprise,
inserting a computer virus to knobble their engines. The MACOs put up
a good fight but are only able to stun one boarder before the rest beam
out and the Bird of Prey warps off. The prisoner looks quite human,
but medical scans show he is indeed Klingon.
Scans of the wreckage from the freighter show the black box is erased-
but T'Pol's analysis shows it was erased *after* being beamed aboard,
by a tech doodad that Reed was the last to have access to. T'Pol then
goes over the sensor scans and determines the freighter was shot up by
Klingon disruptors. Archer confronts Reed, but Reed is unable to say
anything beyond denying that he's working for the Klingons.
Archer has Reed confined to the Brig. After a cooling-off period
Archer comes back to talk, but again Reed isn't able to tell Archer all
about his shadowy past in Intel- not even under threat of
court-martial. Phlox isn't able to make much progress with the
Klingon's smoothing virus; TPTB simply don't want to give him the data
he needs to get a grip on the disease. With the colony they're on
scheduled for sterilization the doctor assisting Phlox suggests at
least trying to stabilize those with the virus; they'd still be changed
but could at least survive until a real cure is found.
Survival also becomes a problem for Enterprise. They have their warp
engines back up and are heading for Klingon territory, but a virus left
behind has corrupted their OS. The engines are building up too much
pressure. Archer orders their speed up to Warp 5.2, but with the
pressure still rising we fade out...
********************************************
An errant virus infused the following comments into this review:
- Trip is running off because of T'Pol, and being a martinet on
Columbia to avoid accidentally making any friends?? Is he bucking for
Admiral or what?
- Usually people's talents in Trek appear and as mysteriously
disappear- Hoshi's martial arts abilities are still in full force this
ep.
- Manufacturing satellite scanner files that simply omitted the
transporter wouldn't have raised the immediate red flags that simply
deleting the data did.
- The newest self-help craze sweeping Vulcan: "Mind-Melding For
Dummies" by Jonathan Archer.
- Did anyone else hope that the address for the meeting would be a
phone booth; Malcolm steps in and is dropped into Section 31 HQ?
- Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of it.
- Reed did a piss-poor job covering his tracks. Given that the MiB on
Earth *told* him to suggest Orion raiders he should have had a program
ready to "massage" the sensor logs to match the story. He should have
damaged the black box, and then for the story have T'Pol notice the
damage didn't match and trace it back to a Starfleet phaser.
- The Klingons could as easily beam a warhead onto Enterprise as their
Away Team; is there a reason they wanted the ship disabled instead of
destroyed?
- Kudos for Keating this week: Reed truly came across as deeply torn
between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain everything
to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
- If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory and
reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to warp
leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
surface virus.
Another "Wow" ep; Godzilla doesn't have an ass big enough for this
episode to kick. I admit I was leery when I first read they were going
to address the Klingon Forehead Conundrum, but once again Coto proves
he can do KFC right...
NEXT WEEK: Secrets, prodigal officers and more viral skullduggery!!
*****
The Joker in the Eeeeeeevil Cabal Deck of Cards.
Once we lose magnetic containment, Mr. Antimatter is no longer our
friend.
Al Smith
> between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain everything
> to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
> BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
> there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
> part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
Section 31 doesn't exist yet under that name, I don't believe, but
Reed is serving in some prototype of it -- the covert organization
that will become Section 31 as soon as there are sections to number.
Zodiac69 864, M.B.A.
"Al Smith" <inv...@address.com> wrote in message
news:54NRd.5125$oh4.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his "section," which
implies 31.
Zodiac69
Jack Bohn
A bit of SPOILER SPACE
>- Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
>Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of it.
HA!
>BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
>there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
>part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
Section 31 takes its name and authority from a secret [?] section
of the Federation charter, so I hope you did not hear the name.
I hadn't paid attention to ENTERPRISE for about a year and a
half, was that guy from Reed's past on before? The way it was
presented, I felt I'd missed something.
--
-Jack
Kweeg
news:1108841486.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Gentlemen, start your fanwanks...
>
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> - Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
> Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of it.
LMAO!
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
Chris Applegate
> Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his "section," which
> implies 31.
Only to fanboys anticipating Section 31. Which may be the audience to
which the show is being written.
Chris
TROC
Al Smith
>>> serving in some prototype of it -- the covert organization that will
>>> become Section 31 as soon as there are sections to number.
>
>
> Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his "section," which
> implies 31.
Hmmmm. I wonder how many sections they've got, yet?
usmc...@hotmail.com
Though it's been a LONNNNNGGGGGG time since seeing the pertinent DS9
eps, I seem to recall the Section 31 agent who constantly harassed Dr.
Bashir saying once, in passing, that Section 31 had been in existence
for a long, long time, created by men (and presumably women) who felt
that they HAD to keep their feet firmly planted in reality, for the
good of Earth, conducting espionage and military intel while Star Fleet
and the Federation could and would go on playing their Roddenberrian
utopian gee-whiz games with other worlds and cultures.
For my money, Bashir's nemesis was right -- and also why I always
thought DS9 was the best of the ST series. Darker, less dreamy,
troubled -- in other words, REAL... a sense of currency and real
politik that B5, and now Battlestar Gallactica, have captured well, as
well. Unfortunately, at the expense of ST.
Bozo the Evil Klown
No. While they obviously have some history together this was the first
ep Reed's MiB was in. IIRC it was even the first time se see Reed has
a history in Intel, rather than just munitions and blowing things up.
Eric Newman
Eric Newman
wrote:
I don't think so -- it was a retcon.
Ian J. Ball
Eric Newman <bogus...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
They're safe, as long as it's not Section One.
Ian (Oh no! It's Madeline and Operations!! RUN!!!)
--
"Some people come to embrace this parasite. They dress
it up in tiny clothes. Take it to play dates with
other parasites..." - Dr. Greg House, "House"
http://homepage.mac.com/ijball/TV.html
The Merry Piper
<ijball***SPAM-No***@mac.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <3smf115sod73nrvvl...@4ax.com>,
> Eric Newman <bogus...@nj.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:45 GMT, Al Smith <inv...@address.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> - Kudos for Keating this week: Reed truly came across as deeply torn
>> >> between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain everything
>> >> to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
>> >> BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
>> >> there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
>> >> part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
>> >
>> >Section 31 doesn't exist yet under that name, I don't believe, but
>> >Reed is serving in some prototype of it -- the covert organization
>> >that will become Section 31 as soon as there are sections to number.
>>
>> No, it's still Section 26.
>
>They're safe, as long as it's not Section One.
Or Section 8? (WWII Military jargon for crazy)
--
The Merry Piper
[http://tmpiper.livejournal.com]
If you want to dance, you'll have to pay ... me!
Eric Newman
Klinger wanted one. He suffered from the Vulcan compulsion to wear
women's clothing, otherwise known as jamie farr.
SJohnson
Chris Applegate wrote:
[. . .]
huh??
SJohnson
Did I Miss Something In That Last Statement..?
SJohnson
Straker wrote:
> In article <1108841486.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bozo the Evil Klown <Evilk...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>>- If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory and
>>reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to warp
>>leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
>>surface virus.
>
>
> The "virus" was pretty ridiculous in itself in the way it showed
> Klingonese characters on the screen as it manifested itself. If a
> Chinese hacker managed to get a virus onto an American PC, I doubt very
> much the PC would display Chinese characters.
Correct. A minor nit that also caught my attention, too... ;)
...But I just went along for the ride. They're at least *trying* to give
us a good story this year. <g>
SJ
SJohnson
usmc...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Al Smith wrote:
>
>>>- Kudos for Keating this week: Reed truly came across as deeply
>
> torn
>
>>>between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain
>
> everything
>
>>>to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
>>>BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
>>>there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31
>
> or
>
>>>part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
>>
>>Section 31 doesn't exist yet under that name, I don't believe, but
>>Reed is serving in some prototype of it -- the covert organization
>>that will become Section 31 as soon as there are sections to number.
>
>
> Though it's been a LONNNNNGGGGGG time since seeing the pertinent DS9
> eps, I seem to recall the Section 31 agent who constantly harassed Dr.
> Bashir saying once, in passing, that Section 31 had been in existence
> for a long, long time, created by men (and presumably women) who felt
> that they HAD to keep their feet firmly planted in reality, for the
> good of Earth, conducting espionage and military intel while Star Fleet
> and the Federation could and would go on playing their Roddenberrian
> utopian gee-whiz games with other worlds and cultures.
Exactamundo. To those wondering about certain, uhm, 'fanboy delusions',
re-read the above.
> For my money, Bashir's nemesis was right -- and also why I always
> thought DS9 was the best of the ST series. Darker, less dreamy,
> troubled -- in other words, REAL... a sense of currency and real
> politik that B5, and now Battlestar Gallactica, have captured well, as
> well. Unfortunately, at the expense of ST.
...Which is why we DS9 fans MUST DIE. Hell, we knew we weren't long for
this world, anyhoo... ;)
SJ
Damn! And Here I Was A'Hoping That While I Wuz Gone, All Doze
Anti-DS9-ers Would've Gone Bye-Bye..! <*yeesh*>
Wouter Valentijn
"Al Smith" <inv...@address.com> schreef in bericht
news:LOPRd.5187$oh4.1...@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
My mind keeps wandering back towards another show with a 'Section' ;-).
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.zeppodunsel.nl www.nksf.nl
"That's right. I'm back. And I'm a BLOODY ANIMAL!"
Spike in "Doomed" ("Buffy The Vampire Slayer", 4x11)
GeneK
> Correct. A minor nit that also caught my attention, too... ;)
>
> ...But I just went along for the ride. They're at least *trying* to give us a good story
> this year. <g>
Wouldn't be difficult at all to embed fonts in a virus today if the
hacker writing it wanted to. Seems to me a fairly rudimentary
virus action might be to delete all the fonts on a victim's
computer and install one the user is unlikely to be able to read.
Just because it isn't the way hackers write in our time on Earth
is no reason why a future alien hacker might not do it, if for no
reason other than laughs.
GeneK
SJohnson
Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> ********************************************
>
> An errant virus infused the following comments into this review:
oh don't start ;)
> - Trip is running off because of T'Pol, and being a martinet on
> Columbia to avoid accidentally making any friends?? Is he bucking for
> Admiral or what?
"Admiral" Janeway got her rank by falling in-and-out of love with a
holo-mantoy... So now it's love-stricken Trip's turn, Boz. Have a
*heart*, man!
> - Usually people's talents in Trek appear and as mysteriously
> disappear- Hoshi's martial arts abilities are still in full force this
> ep.
That's good, iffen they remembered something like that. (Since I've been
an off-and-on watcher of ENT the past couple of years, I can't say I
remember her being trained.)
> - Manufacturing satellite scanner files that simply omitted the
> transporter wouldn't have raised the immediate red flags that simply
> deleting the data did.
I dunno, cuz; mayhap the deleted files may've caused an immediate
investigation, instead of a time-delayed one- thus allowing Malcolm's
mission to get some precious intel time/info? I really haven't thought
about it that way, but you could be right.
> - The newest self-help craze sweeping Vulcan: "Mind-Melding For
> Dummies" by Jonathan Archer.
I told ya earlier: This moment made me 'wince' a bit. That means Archer
is Surak.
Kinda.
> - Did anyone else hope that the address for the meeting would be a
> phone booth; Malcolm steps in and is dropped into Section 31 HQ?
Damn comic books. Gotta start throwing 'em away...
> - Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
> Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of it.
t'ain't fair. I blew cranberry-grape juice on my keyboard readin' that.
I will be preparing a bill for damages.
> - Reed did a piss-poor job covering his tracks. Given that the MiB on
> Earth *told* him to suggest Orion raiders he should have had a program
> ready to "massage" the sensor logs to match the story. He should have
> damaged the black box, and then for the story have T'Pol notice the
> damage didn't match and trace it back to a Starfleet phaser.
Ye-e-eah... but T'Pol has established herself as a damned good science
officer. Reed, being the ol' standard jack-of-all-trades spy-guy,
probably did his best at doing what you suggested... but against a good
science officer (like Spock? Data? Jadzia?), his best probably wasn't
good enough.
> - The Klingons could as easily beam a warhead onto Enterprise as their
> Away Team; is there a reason they wanted the ship disabled instead of
> destroyed?
Good point, that. Maybe we'll see why next week, Bozo. I mean, they did
go through all the trouble of doing a Wil Smith ID4 on the ol' gal, so
it must've been a good reason.
> - Kudos for Keating this week: Reed truly came across as deeply torn
> between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain everything
> to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
> BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
> there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
> part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
Right. Since we know that it was established that Sec31 was around at
the start of Starfleet (Federation?), we can only surmise that Coto was
trying the best he could to remain close to established Trek history as
he could-- which he has *done* rather superbly this year.
> - If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory and
> reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to warp
> leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
> surface virus.
<*ouch*>
i told you: don't remind me ;)
> Another "Wow" ep; Godzilla doesn't have an ass big enough for this
> episode to kick. I admit I was leery when I first read they were going
> to address the Klingon Forehead Conundrum, but once again Coto proves
> he can do KFC right...
Much kudos, that man.
> NEXT WEEK: Secrets, prodigal officers and more viral skullduggery!!
Iffen I see an Apple logo on the next lappy supplying another 'virus',
I'm calling it quits to sci-fi forever.
SJ
At *Least* Let Us See A Dell Latitude, Fer Cryin' Out Loud...
SJohnson
GeneK wrote:
Hey, I'll accept the "laughs" part, Gene... <bg>
But you got a point. It just kinda made wonder why a master hacker
wouldn't try to mask his/her work by using the home language/font of the
target server... unless they didn't care about being discovered later-
but I guess that's also a good reason (about they not caring).
SJ
GeneK
"SJohnson" <med...@bellsouth.net> wrote...
> But you got a point. It just kinda made wonder why a master hacker wouldn't try to mask
> his/her work by using the home language/font of the target server... unless they didn't
> care about being discovered later- but I guess that's also a good reason (about they not
> caring).
Well, in this case the hacker is already confronted with an alien
computer, programmed in an alien language. There's probably
also a time constraint on the completion and delivery of the virus
prior to the mission. If the hacker didn't have the time to be able
to study the target system in depth, perhaps this was "good enough"
to accomplish the aim under the circumstances.
GeneK
Al Smith
> hacker writing it wanted to. Seems to me a fairly rudimentary
> virus action might be to delete all the fonts on a victim's
> computer and install one the user is unlikely to be able to read.
> Just because it isn't the way hackers write in our time on Earth
> is no reason why a future alien hacker might not do it, if for no
> reason other than laughs.
>
> GeneK
Correct, the Enterprise computers are not our computers. Who knows
what they would do when infected by a computer virus from an alien
species?
SJohnson
GeneK wrote:
Right, right. And since it was a cut-and-run mission, they only needed
something that was "good enough". Makes sense, that.
SJ
ANIM8Rfsk
med...@bellsouth.net wrote on 2/20/05 11:31 AM:
>> - Usually people's talents in Trek appear and as mysteriously
>> disappear- Hoshi's martial arts abilities are still in full force this
>> ep.
>
> That's good, iffen they remembered something like that. (Since I've been
> an off-and-on watcher of ENT the past couple of years, I can't say I
> remember her being trained.)
Her martial arts expertise was sprung on us (and Tripp) as a surprise. The
wonder is that it stuck.
Bozo the Evil Klown
SJohnson wrote:
> Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>
> > ********************************************
> >
> > An errant virus infused the following comments into this review:
>
> oh don't start ;)
>
> > - Trip is running off because of T'Pol, and being a martinet on
> > Columbia to avoid accidentally making any friends?? Is he bucking
for
> > Admiral or what?
>
> "Admiral" Janeway got her rank by falling in-and-out of love with a
> holo-mantoy... So now it's love-stricken Trip's turn, Boz. Have a
> *heart*, man!
Oh- I thought Janeway had been promoted for all those times she saved
the Borg.
>
> > - Usually people's talents in Trek appear and as mysteriously
> > disappear- Hoshi's martial arts abilities are still in full force
this
> > ep.
>
> That's good, iffen they remembered something like that. (Since I've
been
> an off-and-on watcher of ENT the past couple of years, I can't say I
> remember her being trained.)
>
We've seen her training in Vulcan martial arts ("Marauders") and with
the MACOs in Season 3. In "Observer Effect" she reveals she already
knew martial arts before she even joined Starfleet.
> > - Manufacturing satellite scanner files that simply omitted the
> > transporter wouldn't have raised the immediate red flags that
simply
> > deleting the data did.
>
> I dunno, cuz; mayhap the deleted files may've caused an immediate
> investigation, instead of a time-delayed one- thus allowing Malcolm's
> mission to get some precious intel time/info? I really haven't
thought
> about it that way, but you could be right.
>
The files were deleted to *prevent* anyone from seeing the transporter
beam from the Rigellian ship- but the MiB was willing to talk to Reed
anyway, since he had special orders for Reed this mission.
Deleting the files instead of just erasing the evidence of the
transporter would only cause suspicion in *anyone* who had reason to
check- not just Reed.
> > - The newest self-help craze sweeping Vulcan: "Mind-Melding For
> > Dummies" by Jonathan Archer.
>
> I told ya earlier: This moment made me 'wince' a bit. That means
Archer
> is Surak.
>
> Kinda.
Will be interesting to see how often any of this surfaces- that
neck-pinch thing would be very handy in a variety of situations.
>
> > - Did anyone else hope that the address for the meeting would be a
> > phone booth; Malcolm steps in and is dropped into Section 31 HQ?
>
> Damn comic books. Gotta start throwing 'em away...
SACRILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And it was a TV reference, anyway: "Get Smart."
>
> > - Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
> > Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of
it.
>
> t'ain't fair. I blew cranberry-grape juice on my keyboard readin'
that.
> I will be preparing a bill for damages.
>
> > - Reed did a piss-poor job covering his tracks. Given that the MiB
on
> > Earth *told* him to suggest Orion raiders he should have had a
program
> > ready to "massage" the sensor logs to match the story. He should
have
> > damaged the black box, and then for the story have T'Pol notice the
> > damage didn't match and trace it back to a Starfleet phaser.
>
> Ye-e-eah... but T'Pol has established herself as a damned good
science
> officer. Reed, being the ol' standard jack-of-all-trades spy-guy,
> probably did his best at doing what you suggested... but against a
good
> science officer (like Spock? Data? Jadzia?), his best probably wasn't
> good enough.
004 1/2... licensed to hack.
Agreed.
>
> > - If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory
and
> > reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to
warp
> > leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
> > surface virus.
>
> <*ouch*>
> i told you: don't remind me ;)
Your warp nacelles should *always* practice safe trans-Einsteinian
geometry: Always keep a condom over your data ports for protection
against alien viruses.
>
> > Another "Wow" ep; Godzilla doesn't have an ass big enough for this
> > episode to kick. I admit I was leery when I first read they were
going
> > to address the Klingon Forehead Conundrum, but once again Coto
proves
> > he can do KFC right...
>
> Much kudos, that man.
>
> > NEXT WEEK: Secrets, prodigal officers and more viral skullduggery!!
>
> Iffen I see an Apple logo on the next lappy supplying another
'virus',
> I'm calling it quits to sci-fi forever.
>
> SJ
> At *Least* Let Us See A Dell Latitude, Fer Cryin' Out Loud...
I wonder how much computer companies pay for product placement. No
doubt they'd want their product linked to the amazing sci fi computers
that can *never* be shut down or get the Blue Screen of Death.
jpha...@yahoo.com
> For my money, Bashir's nemesis was right -- and also why I always
> thought DS9 was the best of the ST series. Darker, less dreamy,
> troubled -- in other words, REAL... a sense of currency and real
> politik that B5, and now Battlestar Gallactica, have captured well,
as
> well. Unfortunately, at the expense of ST.
Battlestar Galactica doesn't so far have an equivalent of Section 31,
which is why Battlestar Galactica has been renewed and Enterprise has
been cancelled.
So far Battlestar Galactica, in contrast to cancelled shows such as
Space Above and Beyond, Firefly and now apparently Enterprise, has
neither secret military intelligence agencies or corporate/government
conspiracies that know more than what they are saying about the
opponents and who possibly caused the conflict. That means that what
has to be built up in Battlestar Galactica are the actual human
opponents, which makes the Cylons better characters and the series more
entertaining.
We obviously don't know much about the Cylons, but Ron Moore has
indicated that much more will be said about their civilization in the
newly confirmed season two. Because the writers will devote so much
time to the mysteries of the Cylons, they have to make Cylon
civilization and motives as compelling to the viewer as possible to
retain interest.
Secret intelligence agencies such as Section 31 merely provide crutches
for lazy writers to advance exposition of the story beyond means they
have provided for the main characters and to introduce deus ex machina
solutions to problems. There's no easy way out for the humans in BSG,
no secret intelligence agencies with the answers, no miracle technology
waiting around for humans to use to exterminate the Cylons.
There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is merely
an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be shown to
consume resources and hide information so severely that the host
civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful and so
knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the Federation
should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
Refusal to update the storylines to reflect realities that the average
viewer has been experiencing for decades is why Enterprise is
cancelled, and Section 31 type stories only reflect the basic
disconnect Star Trek writers have with anything in literature written
since the early 1960s.
David Johnston
>There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is merely
>an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be shown to
>consume resources and hide information so severely that the host
>civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful and so
>knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the Federation
>should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
>
Without such an organisation, it seems improbable that the Federation
would survive at all. Idiotic moves like banning cloaking technology
would hamstring it beyond repair.
Kweeg
news:j14g11h39m6i4kvur...@4ax.com...
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!
Well done!
--
Qa'pla
Kweeg
http://members.shaw.ca/iksbloodoath
Kweeg
news:jj0g11hlsga55544v...@4ax.com...
Or catch 22.....
-One may only be excused from flying bombing missions on the grounds of
insanity;
-One must request to be excused;
-One who requests to be excused is presumably in fear for his life. This is
taken to be proof of his sanity, and he is therefore obliged to continue
flying missions;
-One who is truly insane presumably would not make the request. He therefore
would continue flying missions, even though as an insane person he could be
excused from them by asking.
GeneK
> Or catch 22.....
>
> -One may only be excused from flying bombing missions on the grounds of
> insanity;
> -One must request to be excused;
> -One who requests to be excused is presumably in fear for his life. This is
> taken to be proof of his sanity, and he is therefore obliged to continue
> flying missions;
> -One who is truly insane presumably would not make the request. He therefore
> would continue flying missions, even though as an insane person he could be
> excused from them by asking.
I don't see the problem here. You drop your payload on some sleepy
little English village just outside your base, come back and start
jumping up and down for joy proclaiming that Germany's finished
because you just leveled Berlin and got Hitler. Then you request a
transfer to the Pacific theater so you can do the same to Hirohito.
GeneK
SJohnson
jpha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> usmc...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>For my money, Bashir's nemesis was right -- and also why I always
>>thought DS9 was the best of the ST series. Darker, less dreamy,
>>troubled -- in other words, REAL... a sense of currency and real
>>politik that B5, and now Battlestar Gallactica, have captured well,
>
> as
>
>>well. Unfortunately, at the expense of ST.
>
>
> Battlestar Galactica doesn't so far have an equivalent of Section 31,
> which is why Battlestar Galactica has been renewed and Enterprise has
> been cancelled.
>
> So far Battlestar Galactica, in contrast to cancelled shows such as
> Space Above and Beyond, Firefly and now apparently Enterprise, has
> neither secret military intelligence agencies or corporate/government
> conspiracies that know more than what they are saying about the
> opponents and who possibly caused the conflict. That means that what
> has to be built up in Battlestar Galactica are the actual human
> opponents, which makes the Cylons better characters and the series more
> entertaining.
>
> We obviously don't know much about the Cylons, but Ron Moore has
> indicated that much more will be said about their civilization in the
> newly confirmed season two. Because the writers will devote so much
> time to the mysteries of the Cylons, they have to make Cylon
<snip rest of prattle about "Battlestar: The Light Beyond">
Look, I know you mean well, cuz. I love BSG very, very much; and as a
fellow Ron Moore fan, I'll cut you a little slack here.
In case you forgot (or didn't know), it was our man Ron Moore who
created Section 31 for my *other* Trek favorite, DS9. It was our man Ron
Moore who brought the so-called "dirty edge" to the Trek universe that
so many peace-nik Trekkers despised. And it was our man Ron Moore who
brought many blocks of multi-ep arcs to the Trek universe-- again, on DS9.
Iffen you don't like ENT, that's fine; I, myself, wasn't really of a fan
of it until THIS year. But I will give credit where credit is due, and
they've done a great job of turning the series on its head this year by
bringing in such dark, gritty fare that was precisely what TOS was in
its first year (also my favorite season in the original).
But, please, don't make Moore into some kinda sci-fi prophet here,
because you may be very disappointed in fact that he's the very same one
who created the very thing(s) you seem to hate about in this particular
version of Trek. Manny Coto himself is giving a nod to a creation of Ron
Moore: Section 31- a super-secret, yadda, yadda, yadda, that you're
ranting on full-steam about what you think is *wrong* about a sci-fi
series. It was also under Moore (on DS9) that the 'question' of the look
of TOS Klingons and post-TOS Klingons were officially raised in Trek
canon, and Coto is once again giving a nod to him. I can quote more, but
I'm just tried of typing here <*whew*>
[Okay, you may now continue your rantings about Reverend Moore and what
he's doing right in that *other* dark and gritty modern adaptation of a
series that many old peace-nik fans of the old series now despise:
Batttlestar Galactica.]
*Yikes!*
SJ
Know You Sci-Fi History (And Their Creators) A'Fore You Speak
Kimon
>
> Battlestar Galactica doesn't so far have an equivalent of Section 31,
> which is why Battlestar Galactica has been renewed and Enterprise has
> been cancelled.
Don't be daft; The fate of "Enterprise" was sealed way long before the
producers thought of bringing Section 31 into the series.
<snip>
> Secret intelligence agencies such as Section 31 merely provide crutches
> for lazy writers to advance exposition of the story beyond means they
> have provided for the main characters and to introduce deus ex machina
> solutions to problems. There's no easy way out for the humans in BSG,
> no secret intelligence agencies with the answers, no miracle technology
> waiting around for humans to use to exterminate the Cylons.
The role of Section 31 in the Star Trek Universe is unique because the
organization runs contrary to everything the Federation represents. This
creates a peculiar conflict -- the problem is that many of the critical
fans choose to ignore it.
> There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is merely
> an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be shown to
> consume resources and hide information so severely that the host
> civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful and so
> knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the Federation
> should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
No-one claimed Section 31 was an all-mighty powerful organization. In
fact, by the end of DS9 we begin to question whether it was all the
fantasy of a madman.
ANIM8Rfsk
Evil Klown at Evilk...@aol.com wrote on 2/20/05 2:02 PM:
> I wonder how much computer companies pay for product placement. No
> doubt they'd want their product linked to the amazing sci fi computers
> that can *never* be shut down or get the Blue Screen of Death.
I always found it amusing that in the last two unwatchable incompetently
produced seasons of BUFFY they'd stick post it notes over the Apple logos on
their laptops, but at the same time in the far superior ANGEL they'd display
the logos proudly. Must be a lesson in there somewhere, if only that the
Buffy people clearly had screwed up priorities.
SJohnson
Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> SJohnson wrote:
>
>>Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>>
>>
>>>********************************************
>>>
>>>An errant virus infused the following comments into this review:
>>
>>oh don't start ;)
>>
>>
>>>- Trip is running off because of T'Pol, and being a martinet on
>>>Columbia to avoid accidentally making any friends?? Is he bucking
>
> for
>
>>>Admiral or what?
>>
>>"Admiral" Janeway got her rank by falling in-and-out of love with a
>>holo-mantoy... So now it's love-stricken Trip's turn, Boz. Have a
>>*heart*, man!
>
>
> Oh- I thought Janeway had been promoted for all those times she saved
> the Borg.
oh yeah that 2 <heh heh>
>>>- Usually people's talents in Trek appear and as mysteriously
>>>disappear- Hoshi's martial arts abilities are still in full force
>
> this
>
>>>ep.
>>
>>That's good, iffen they remembered something like that. (Since I've
>
> been
>
>>an off-and-on watcher of ENT the past couple of years, I can't say I
>>remember her being trained.)
>>
>
>
> We've seen her training in Vulcan martial arts ("Marauders") and with
> the MACOs in Season 3. In "Observer Effect" she reveals she already
> knew martial arts before she even joined Starfleet.
Well, that IS good news then, and it means you're right: they're doing
that weird and wacky thing that's been so foreign to current Trek as of
late-- keeping continuity. <Yow!>
>>>- Manufacturing satellite scanner files that simply omitted the
>>>transporter wouldn't have raised the immediate red flags that
>
> simply
>
>>>deleting the data did.
>>
>>I dunno, cuz; mayhap the deleted files may've caused an immediate
>>investigation, instead of a time-delayed one- thus allowing Malcolm's
>
>
>>mission to get some precious intel time/info? I really haven't
>
> thought
>
>>about it that way, but you could be right.
>>
>
>
> The files were deleted to *prevent* anyone from seeing the transporter
> beam from the Rigellian ship- but the MiB was willing to talk to Reed
> anyway, since he had special orders for Reed this mission.
>
> Deleting the files instead of just erasing the evidence of the
> transporter would only cause suspicion in *anyone* who had reason to
> check- not just Reed.
True dat, true dat. I just know that I would get suspicious of things
'missing' almost immediately than I would if something appeared in its
place that looked very similar.
>>>- The newest self-help craze sweeping Vulcan: "Mind-Melding For
>>>Dummies" by Jonathan Archer.
>>
>>I told ya earlier: This moment made me 'wince' a bit. That means
>
> Archer
>
>>is Surak.
>>
>>Kinda.
>
>
> Will be interesting to see how often any of this surfaces- that
> neck-pinch thing would be very handy in a variety of situations.
Like minds think alike, m'man. If he has/had Surak memories about things
as complex as a mind-meld, then surely Archer can remember the placement
of his/Surak's hands on the neck area of the nearest bad guy...
>>>- Did anyone else hope that the address for the meeting would be a
>>>phone booth; Malcolm steps in and is dropped into Section 31 HQ?
>>
>>Damn comic books. Gotta start throwing 'em away...
>
>
> SACRILEGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> And it was a TV reference, anyway: "Get Smart."
oh
(wuz thinkin' bout Supes... in phone booth... changing his... uhm, right...)
<snip>
>>
>>>- Reed did a piss-poor job covering his tracks. Given that the MiB
>
> on
>
>>>Earth *told* him to suggest Orion raiders he should have had a
>
> program
>
>>>ready to "massage" the sensor logs to match the story. He should
>
> have
>
>>>damaged the black box, and then for the story have T'Pol notice the
>>>damage didn't match and trace it back to a Starfleet phaser.
>>
>>Ye-e-eah... but T'Pol has established herself as a damned good
>
> science
>
>>officer. Reed, being the ol' standard jack-of-all-trades spy-guy,
>>probably did his best at doing what you suggested... but against a
>
> good
>
>>science officer (like Spock? Data? Jadzia?), his best probably wasn't
>
>
>>good enough.
>
>
> 004 1/2... licensed to hack.
as in Bill the Cat <*hack*>? :)
<snip>
>>>- If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory
>
> and
>
>>>reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to
>
> warp
>
>>>leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
>>>surface virus.
>>
>><*ouch*>
>>i told you: don't remind me ;)
>
>
> Your warp nacelles should *always* practice safe trans-Einsteinian
> geometry: Always keep a condom over your data ports for protection
> against alien viruses.
Sounds like a film I saw in Korea before going off-post for the first
time... if *that* doesn't make you wrap your nacelles, then you're one
soon-to-be-dead redshirt..!
>>>Another "Wow" ep; Godzilla doesn't have an ass big enough for this
>>>episode to kick. I admit I was leery when I first read they were
>
> going
>
>>>to address the Klingon Forehead Conundrum, but once again Coto
>
> proves
>
>>>he can do KFC right...
>>
>>Much kudos, that man.
>>
>>
>>>NEXT WEEK: Secrets, prodigal officers and more viral skullduggery!!
>>
>>Iffen I see an Apple logo on the next lappy supplying another
>
> 'virus',
>
>>I'm calling it quits to sci-fi forever.
>>
>>SJ
>>At *Least* Let Us See A Dell Latitude, Fer Cryin' Out Loud...
>
>
> I wonder how much computer companies pay for product placement. No
> doubt they'd want their product linked to the amazing sci fi computers
> that can *never* be shut down or get the Blue Screen of Death.
Well, that rules out Star Trek. An alien boarder- who've never even seen
an Earth vessel before in their lives- can easily access sensors,
security grids, warp signatures, shield frequencies, etc, etc...
No endorsement there, methinks!
<insert "Pentium 4" bells HERE>SJ
GeneK
"Keeper of the Purple Twilight" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote...
> If you mean the Klingons from 'Affliction' - well, to be fair, those
> were Augments. Part of being an augment includes super-intelligence;
> I'm sure they could quickly figure out any computer system or starship.
Actually, it would make sense that the Klingons could do this to NX-01;
the Empire appears to have a technological edge over Earth as this point
in history. I think SJ was thinking mostly of TNG and later, where the
security on Starfleet ships and stations made the Love Boat look like
Fort Knox by comparison. Sabotage onboard the TOS Enterprise
wasn't quite as easily accomplished, but did happen there as well.
GeneK
Joel Polowin
> In article <uT8Sd.16873$Rl5....@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, SJohnson
> <med...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>Well, that rules out Star Trek. An alien boarder- who've never even seen
>>an Earth vessel before in their lives- can easily access sensors,
>>security grids, warp signatures, shield frequencies, etc, etc...
>
> If you mean the Klingons from 'Affliction' - well, to be fair, those
> were Augments. Part of being an augment includes super-intelligence;
> I'm sure they could quickly figure out any computer system or starship.
They may also have had inside information from the covert ops folks
who've been pulling Reed's strings, the intention being to delay
Enterprise for some reason. This would explain why they beamed over,
did some damage, then left, rather than doing something more along
the lines of destroying the ship.
--
Joel Polowin jpolow...@sympatico.ca but delete "XYZZy" from address
"If you show trophy fish in first act, then by third act you must
show that it is only red herring." -- Pavel Chekov
David B
> Zodiac69 864, M.B.A. wrote:
>
> > Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his "section," which
> > implies 31.
>
> Only to fanboys anticipating Section 31. Which may be the audience to
> which the show is being written.
No wonder I had this warm feeling in my pants.
David E. Powell
Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> > Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >- Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
> > >Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of
> it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
> > >there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31
or
> > >part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
> >
> > of the Federation charter, so I hope you did not hear the name.
> >
> > I hadn't paid attention to ENTERPRISE for about a year and a
> > half, was that guy from Reed's past on before? The way it was
> > presented, I felt I'd missed something.
> >
>
> No. While they obviously have some history together this was the
first
> ep Reed's MiB was in. IIRC it was even the first time se see Reed
has
> a history in Intel, rather than just munitions and blowing things up.
Reed being in intel makes sense, one thing intel folks would want to
know about would be alien weapons, and it is one of the things it is
hard to just +ask+ other peoples about. Also, he has the cool demeanor
for it.
Plus, anything to work with the character is a plus in my book. Good
stuff.
Bozo the Evil Klown
jpha...@yahoo.com wrote:
> usmc...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > For my money, Bashir's nemesis was right -- and also why I always
> > thought DS9 was the best of the ST series. Darker, less dreamy,
> > troubled -- in other words, REAL... a sense of currency and real
> > politik that B5, and now Battlestar Gallactica, have captured well,
> as
> > well. Unfortunately, at the expense of ST.
>
> Battlestar Galactica doesn't so far have an equivalent of Section 31,
> which is why Battlestar Galactica has been renewed and Enterprise has
> been cancelled.
"Galactica" started right out of the gate with good scripts; this helps
to keep the audience *and* attract new pairs of eyes to watch the
sponsors ads. ENT suffered from sucktacular writing until the Third
Season, and after a decade of "Shit Trek" they had lost almost their
entire fan base.
>
> So far Battlestar Galactica, in contrast to cancelled shows such as
> Space Above and Beyond, Firefly and now apparently Enterprise, has
> neither secret military intelligence agencies or
How do we *know* there ar eno secret military Intel agencies in
"Galactica?" It seems far more likely that they do (or did) have
them... they're just *secret* and not in the sense of the Bond or Flint
"World-famous secret agent."
"X-Files" used conspiracies as one of its primary food groups, and the
show lasted quite a number of years.
> corporate/government
> conspiracies that know more than what they are saying about the
> opponents and who possibly caused the conflict. That means that what
> has to be built up in Battlestar Galactica are the actual human
> opponents, which makes the Cylons better characters and the series
more
> entertaining.
Baltar knows quite a bit more than what he's telling Adama or the
President.
>
> We obviously don't know much about the Cylons, but Ron Moore has
> indicated that much more will be said about their civilization in the
> newly confirmed season two. Because the writers will devote so much
> time to the mysteries of the Cylons, they have to make Cylon
> civilization and motives as compelling to the viewer as possible to
> retain interest.
Moore, like the Cylons, has a Plan. He's not just making shit up week
to week but working from a detailed, thought-out *consistent* outline
of his fictional world. "X-Files" was strong while Chris Carter at
least pretended to have some overall plan behind his conspiracies, but
once he just started pulling random shit out of his ass was when the
show was cancelled.
>
> Secret intelligence agencies such as Section 31 merely provide
crutches
> for lazy writers to advance exposition of the story beyond means they
> have provided for the main characters and to introduce deus ex
machina
> solutions to problems. There's no easy way out for the humans in
BSG,
> no secret intelligence agencies with the answers, no miracle
technology
> waiting around for humans to use to exterminate the Cylons.
>
Section 31 wasn't a deus ex machina- in fact it was used to set Bashir
up with a moral dilemma that he *didn't* have a pat easy out that let
him keep his moral sense all warm and snuggly.
*Anything* (secret conspiracy, technology, God(s), the internet,
Blalock's cleavage etc.) can be used as a crutch by a bad writer to
find a cheap way out. The same anything can also be used by a good
writer to put the protagonist into a tough situation, to see if they're
up to making the tough decisions required.
> There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is
merely
> an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be shown to
> consume resources and hide information so severely that the host
> civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful and so
> knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the Federation
> should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
>
It seems more absurd to think that a society could survive without
agencies such as Section 31, which can and will get whatever intel or
do whatever deed is necessary for said society's survival.
> Refusal to update the storylines to reflect realities that the
average
> viewer has been experiencing for decades is why Enterprise is
> cancelled, and Section 31 type stories only reflect the basic
> disconnect Star Trek writers have with anything in literature written
> since the early 1960s.
While I'm looking forward to the new "Doctor Who," right now the most
interesting show I'm seeing from England is about their Intel people.
It's called "Spooks," and broadcast here in the colonies as "MI-5."
Zenofobe
nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:
>> - Kudos for Keating this week: Reed truly came across as deeply torn
>> between his loyalties. It was clear he *wanted* to explain everything
>> to Archer but It Would Be Wrong to go telling tales out of school.
>> BTW, I didn't actually *hear* the name "Section 31" used, though
>> there's very little doubt the MiB Reed met with was either Sec 31 or
>> part of whatever Intel outfit would grow into it.
>
> Section 31 doesn't exist yet under that name, I don't believe, but
> Reed is serving in some prototype of it -- the covert organization
> that will become Section 31 as soon as there are sections to number.
It seemed silly that the "oh so mysterious" black leather outfits would
survive all the way to TNG time. Are all Section 31 operative require to
have their sense of style surgically removed as a part of their initiation?
Maybe Section 30 operatives dress like Indian chiefs, and Section 32
operatives are the construction workers.
Daryle Walker
> Gentlemen, start your fanwanks...
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
>
> S
>
> P
>
> A
>
> C
>
> E
>
[SNIP]
> and with Archer kibitzing- ummm, I mean, *coaching* T'Pol mind-melds
What does "kibitzing" mean?
[SNIP]
> - Manufacturing satellite scanner files that simply omitted the
> transporter wouldn't have raised the immediate red flags that simply
> deleting the data did.
I guess the MiB organization here is supposed to a shade of the later
"Section 31". I have an objection here; the Earth-based spy agencies in
Trek seem so omni-potent/scent (especially compared to other societies'
agencies). The NX-01 is Earth's _only_ ship that can even reach Warp
2(!), so how the heck can the agency get its knowledge? Earth is still
to wussy to have any leverage.
[SNIP]
> - Human Augments were dangerously ferocious and violent; a Klingon
> Augment would probably beat himself to death just for the honor of it.
Maybe this causes the "bad First Contact between Klingons and
Earthlings" that Picard warned someone about. The Klingons were
convinced that Earthlings were pathetic nosy wussies, then the Augment
incident "showed" that the Earthlings were just hiding their "teeth"
(not believing that Earthings really were stupid enough to throw away
their advantage), and finally the Klingons' attempt to copy the
Earthlings' advantage backfires. The Klingons in Kirk's era probably
hated the fact that Earthlings grew from pathetic to full-blown
competitors in one century!
[SNIP]
> - The Klingons could as easily beam a warhead onto Enterprise as their
> Away Team; is there a reason they wanted the ship disabled instead of
> destroyed?
And how did the Klingon commander know that the shot would work as
shown, instead of boring through and vaporizing him. (After all, he
request a shot at _his_ location, not the MACOs a few meters away.)
> - If they can't be sure of their virus scan, then wipe the memory and
> reload. Just fixing the immediate, obvious problem and jumping to warp
> leaves them vulnerable to that which survived their purge of the
> surface virus.
[TRUNCATE]
I don't think they can turn the engines off now. It probably wouldn't
be good to reboot while the engines are still running in overdrive.
--
Daryle Walker
Mac, Internet, and Video Game Junkie
dwalker07 AT snet DOT net
SJohnson
Well-said, Gene. Thanks.
Keeper, post-TOS Trek writers had seemed to grow in love with writing
security breech scenes- something to create that lil' conflict in which
to launch their stories-of-the-week from.
That's okay for an episode or two per season; but, it had gotten to the
point where too many ST writers began to rely too heavily on a contrived
security let-down for their storyline foundations, and it quickly became
breeches a'plenty for as many as a quarter of the episodes in certain ST
seasons. It's become so bad that it's evolved into something of a
running joke for a lot of Trek fans.
I don't care where (or *when*) you are in the galaxy, that many breeches
means a loss of command, a loss of rank-- or sometimes BOTH; and at
*least*, it should require storylines from those so-called professional
Trek writers which reflect a tightening of OPSEC (operations security)
procedures, and upgrades to certain technologies to prevent those
problems from happening. In shows like Stargate SG-1 (to their credit),
each let-down in OPSEC is later written (and shown) with an upgrade to
correct such lapses in future episodes.
SJohnson
The Merry Piper
Walker) wrote:
>Bozo the Evil Klown <Evilk...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Gentlemen, start your fanwanks...
>>
>> S
>>
>> P
>>
>> O
>>
>> I
>>
>> L
>>
>> E
>>
>> R
>>
>>
>> S
>>
>> P
>>
>> A
>>
>> C
>>
>> E
>>
>[SNIP]
>> and with Archer kibitzing- ummm, I mean, *coaching* T'Pol mind-melds
>
>What does "kibitzing" mean?
I'm not the OP but:
1. To look on and offer unwanted, usually meddlesome advice to
others.
2. To chat; converse.
--
The Merry Piper
[http://tmpiper.livejournal.com]
If you want to dance, you'll have to pay ... me!
j.lance wilkinson, (814) 865-1818
>>
>>
>>Straker wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1108841486.5...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
...
>>> The "virus" was pretty ridiculous in itself in the way it showed
>>> Klingonese characters on the screen as it manifested itself. If a
>>> Chinese hacker managed to get a virus onto an American PC, I doubt very
>>> much the PC would display Chinese characters.
>>
>>Correct. A minor nit that also caught my attention, too... ;)
Why? Unicode is becoming prevalent today, letting so many systems
present Kanji and Chinese and Cyrillic and other character sets
easily. Why wouldn't Unicode be present in conjunction w/ established
Universal Translator routines ;-)
+----"Never Underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of mag tapes"--+
| J.Lance Wilkinson ("Lance") InterNet: Lance.W...@psu.edu
| Systems Design Specialist - Lead AT&T: (814) 865-1818
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The Mighty Krell
"The Merry Piper" <merry_pi...@COATyahoo.com> wrote in message
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:18:15 GMT, thedl0-...@yahoo.com (Daryle
> Walker) wrote:
>
> >Bozo the Evil Klown <Evilk...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Gentlemen, start your fanwanks...
> >>
> >> S
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >> O
> >>
> >> I
> >>
> >> L
> >>
> >> E
> >>
> >> R
> >>
> >>
> >> S
> >>
> >> P
> >>
> >> A
> >>
> >> C
> >>
> >> E
> >>
> >[SNIP]
> >> and with Archer kibitzing- ummm, I mean, *coaching* T'Pol mind-melds
> >
> >What does "kibitzing" mean?
>
> I'm not the OP but:
>
> 1. To look on and offer unwanted, usually meddlesome advice to
> others.
>
> 2. To chat; converse.
It's from the Yiddish language, which has also graced us with such classics
as 'putz', 'schmuck', 'kakameyme', 'meshungina', 'schvitz', 'schtick', and
my all time favorite: 'verkachta'.
MK
Al Smith
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not the OP but:
>>>
>>> 1. To look on and offer unwanted, usually meddlesome advice to
>>> others.
>>>
>>> 2. To chat; converse.
>
>
>
> It's from the Yiddish language, which has also graced us with such classics
> as 'putz', 'schmuck', 'kakameyme', 'meshungina', 'schvitz', 'schtick', and
> my all time favorite: 'verkachta'.
Yiddish is a great language. Should have been the national
language of Israel, but those schmucks, oy, what can you do?
William December Starr
Chris Applegate <ChrisAp...@cwru.edu> said:
>> Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his
>> "section," which implies 31. [Zodiac69 864, M.B.A.]
>
> Only to fanboys anticipating Section 31. Which may be the
> audience to which the show is being written.
By this point, who else is left?
--
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com>
William December Starr
"Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilk...@aol.com> said:
> How do we *know* there ar eno secret military Intel agencies in
> "Galactica?" It seems far more likely that they do (or did) have
> them... they're just *secret* and not in the sense of the Bond or
> Flint "World-famous secret agent."
It seems to me that there's a two-part question here: (1) Were there
any sooooper-secret military intel agencies in the Colonial military
and (2) if so, how much if any of their organization and command
structure survived the holocaust? Okay, three-part: (3) and if any
did, is it in any position to affect events in the Galactica fleet or
on Cylon-occupied Caprica or (3b) anywhere else?
If there are a grand total of, say, three "Section 31" agents
scattered in the fleet, none of them knowing each others' identities
or even existence, and maybe another nine staggering around the
outskirts of various nuked zones on Caprica scavenging for food and
anti-rad medicine, well, they're probably not going to be much of a
factor in the current chapter of human/Cylon history.
William December Starr
jpha...@yahoo.com said:
> There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is
> merely an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be
> shown to consume resources and hide information so severely that
> the host civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful
> and so knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the
> Federation should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
I can't remember -- was Section 31 involved in the suppression of
scientific and technological discoveries and advancements, a la the
ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space? (Not that the UN's Amalgamated
Regional Militia's existence or mission was secret, of course.)
David Johnston
Starr) wrote:
>In article <1108933549.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>jpha...@yahoo.com said:
>
>> There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is
>> merely an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be
>> shown to consume resources and hide information so severely that
>> the host civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful
>> and so knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the
>> Federation should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
>
>I can't remember -- was Section 31 involved in the suppression of
>scientific and technological discoveries and advancements, a la the
>ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space?
No. Section 31 primarily seems to occupy itself with tampering with
potential threats to the Federation to make them less threatening. At
least I never saw any indication that they were sabotaging the
Federation's advancement. I wouldn't be surprised if they manipulated
worlds close to achieving space flight to change them socially to
something that would fit into the Federation and want to.
Georgiana Gates
surprised how quickly Archer suspected him.
Chris Applegate
> It seemed silly that the "oh so mysterious" black leather outfits would
> survive all the way to TNG time. Are all Section 31 operative require to
> have their sense of style surgically removed as a part of their initiation?
I dunno. Organizational and corporate style evolves much more slowly
than popular style. Enterprise has shown us that human civilization has
ended war, famine, and disease, yet still inflicts neckties on people in
the 22nd century. And I bet the Pope still wears the same funny-looking
hat that he's had for (conservatively) a thousand years or so. It's not
so far-fetched to think that the Federation Section 31 dresses like its
Terran predecessor.
Chris
TROC
Eric Newman
that's meshuggineh (n.) or meshuga (adj.)
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 2/21/05 8:32 PM:
> I can't remember -- was Section 31 involved in the suppression of
> scientific and technological discoveries and advancements, a la the
> ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space? (Not that the UN's Amalgamated
> Regional Militia's existence or mission was secret, of course.)
Oh, sure it was. Not at first, but in the later books the ARM are doing all
KINDS of nasty behind locked doors stuff.
ANIM8Rfsk
rgo...@telusplanet.net wrote on 2/21/05 9:18 PM:
>> I can't remember -- was Section 31 involved in the suppression of
>> scientific and technological discoveries and advancements, a la the
>> ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space?
>
> No. Section 31 primarily seems to occupy itself with tampering with
> potential threats to the Federation to make them less threatening.
Which is what the ARM ended up doing. Louis Wu speculates that there's a
Protector running the ARM by his time.
The Mighty Krell
"Eric Newman" <bogus...@nj.rr.com> wrote in message
news:g0hl11ld8qtod6d28...@4ax.com...
It all depends on whose dictionary you look in. Yiddish spelling has never
been normalized using the roman alphabet.
MK
Ryan J. Paque
> In article <1108933549.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> jpha...@yahoo.com said:
>
>
>>There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is
>>merely an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be
>>shown to consume resources and hide information so severely that
>>the host civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful
>>and so knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the
>>Federation should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
In reality, most likely that is a correct statement. Idealogically
though, such a group's mandate would be to something to the effect of
making sure OTHER influences (aliens) don't interfere unduly with Human
developent... kind of like a reverse Prime Directive.
Again, in an ideal world.... :)
>
>
> I can't remember -- was Section 31 involved in the suppression of
> scientific and technological discoveries and advancements, a la the
> ARM in Larry Niven's Known Space? (Not that the UN's Amalgamated
> Regional Militia's existence or mission was secret, of course.)
>
I seem to remember the phrase "we protect the Federation from threats
you can't even conceive.." or something to that effect. That would
mean to me alien subversion threats and the like. Although it was
certainly hinted at that Section 31 had a lot of its own technological
research that was independant of everything else. A la the secret
Romulan agents, the secret Cardassian agents, etc etc.
William December Starr
ANIM8Rfsk <ANIM...@cox.net> said:
> Oh, sure it was. Not at first, but in the later books the ARM
> are doing all KINDS of nasty behind locked doors stuff.
Oh yeah, that's right. The thing is, even though I know
intellectually that the ARM was still in business during the
_Ringworld_ et seq days in the Known Space timeline, I always tend
to think of them just in terms of the Gil Hamilton (and Lucas
Garner) era, before even the first Kzin encounter.
Claire Petersky
"William December Starr" <wds...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cve7un$cpa$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <cv8edg$qs4$1...@eeyore.INS.cwru.edu>,
> Chris Applegate <ChrisAp...@cwru.edu> said:
>
> >> Well, he did say that he didn't think he was a part of his
> >> "section," which implies 31. [Zodiac69 864, M.B.A.]
> >
> > Only to fanboys anticipating Section 31. Which may be the
> > audience to which the show is being written.
>
> By this point, who else is left?
Fangirls?
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
Eric Newman
ANIM8Rfsk
wds...@panix.com wrote on 2/22/05 10:00 PM:
>> Oh, sure it was. Not at first, but in the later books the ARM
>> are doing all KINDS of nasty behind locked doors stuff.
>
> Oh yeah, that's right. The thing is, even though I know
> intellectually that the ARM was still in business during the
> _Ringworld_ et seq days in the Known Space timeline, I always tend
> to think of them just in terms of the Gil Hamilton (and Lucas
> Garner) era, before even the first Kzin encounter.
Granted, understood, and agreed. The ARM was a good thing in the days of
Gil the ARM (at least as far as we know, which is only as far as Gil knew,
since everything we saw was his point of view) but it turned pretty bad
later. Boneheads are blowing holes in the Ringworld floor!
Al Smith
> Gil the ARM (at least as far as we know, which is only as far as Gil knew,
> since everything we saw was his point of view) but it turned pretty bad
> later. Boneheads are blowing holes in the Ringworld floor!
The Protectors are bound to do something about that. I figure the
boneheads' days are numbered.
ANIM8Rfsk
inv...@address.com wrote on 2/23/05 1:16 PM:
Of course Louis things there might be a Protector running the ARM . . .
shatterday
news:1108933549.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Secret intelligence agencies such as Section 31 merely provide crutches
> for lazy writers to advance exposition of the story beyond means they
> have provided for the main characters and to introduce deus ex machina
> solutions to problems. There's no easy way out for the humans in BSG,
> no secret intelligence agencies with the answers, no miracle technology
> waiting around for humans to use to exterminate the Cylons.
>
> There is also the absurdity that an agency such as Section 31 is merely
> an expedient, and given centuries such agencies should be shown to
> consume resources and hide information so severely that the host
> civilization is impacted. If Section 31 is so powerful and so
> knowledgable, then hundreds of years into the future the Federation
> should be a technological backwater of the galaxy.
>
> Refusal to update the storylines to reflect realities that the average
> viewer has been experiencing for decades is why Enterprise is
> cancelled, and Section 31 type stories only reflect the basic
> disconnect Star Trek writers have with anything in literature written
> since the early 1960s.
>
What a pile of trolling horse-dung.
Section 31 was never utiltized that way in all of DS9 and it is way to
early to say that is what is happening on Enterprise.
Section 31 stories on DS9 were straight mystery episodes. They were not
mere crutches for exposition purposes. The episodes were about intrigue
revolving around a spy organization and near the end of the series it was
brought in as the reason why the Founders were dying. Hardly "mere
exposition".
Your complaint is a total miss as far a Trek is concerned.
As for other such conspiratorial groups... I think you can point the finger
at say X-files (Deep Throat of exposition and the Consortium of telling not
showing) of being guilty of such a thing and perhaps Millennium (at least
in its last season and not in its second season). But those shows weren't
handicapped by such a thing. Those shows imploded because Chris Carter
never bothered to think about the arc and where it was suppose to be going.
As for you bemoaning trek's linkage to 60s written sci-fi... whatever.
There was PLENTY of conspiratorial science fiction in that era. Ever hear
of Phil Dick?
Al Smith
>>>>> Gil the ARM (at least as far as we know, which is only as far as Gil knew,
>>>>> since everything we saw was his point of view) but it turned pretty bad
>>>>> later. Boneheads are blowing holes in the Ringworld floor!
>>
>>>
>>> The Protectors are bound to do something about that. I figure the
>>> boneheads' days are numbered.
>
>
> Of course Louis things there might be a Protector running the ARM . . .
The next novel could get interesting.
Timo S Saloniemi
>"Kweeg" <kw...@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote...
>> Or catch 22.....
>>
>> -One may only be excused from flying bombing missions on the grounds of
>> insanity;
>> -One must request to be excused;
>> -One who requests to be excused is presumably in fear for his life. This is
>> taken to be proof of his sanity, and he is therefore obliged to continue
>> flying missions;
>> -One who is truly insane presumably would not make the request. He therefore
>> would continue flying missions, even though as an insane person he could be
>> excused from them by asking.
>I don't see the problem here. You drop your payload on some sleepy
>little English village just outside your base, come back and start
>jumping up and down for joy proclaiming that Germany's finished
>because you just leveled Berlin and got Hitler. Then you request a
>transfer to the Pacific theater so you can do the same to Hirohito.
Which is more or less what the character did in Heller's book. (Or,
actually, it was a different character who bombarded his own base,
as part of a lucrative business deal - the other character just
acted as crazy as he could, but to no practical effect. Frankly,
he couldn't have looked "insane" in comparison with the people around
him no matter *what* he did...)
Timo Saloniemi
Claire Petersky
news:7UrSd.2285$MY6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It's from the Yiddish language, which has also graced us with such
classics
> as 'putz', 'schmuck', 'kakameyme', 'meshungina', 'schvitz', 'schtick', and
> my all time favorite: 'verkachta'.
My personal fave: schmendrick. A schmendrick is a putz that doesn't function
properly.