ST weapons vs. SW weapons

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PJF

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
toast before it could get into weapons range.

Edward Paez

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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PJF wrote:

Yeah, Yeah. And Spock looks good in spandex.

The Jackyl


Nick Darlington

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
<5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...

> The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> toast before it could get into weapons range.

Sorry, but they'd have to be bloody good at course-prediction to be able to
hit something that far away, since if they aimed directly, they would hit
the space where their targets were, and if they aimed in advance of the
current course of their target, they have to hope the target can't a) see
the things at all via any means possible, and b) change course.

Also, since I believe SW ships can jump within a relatively short range of
their destination/target (assuming they know where to go), the vast
distances are fairly negatable anyway I think.. only because in the fight,
it would be a wasted advantage to have that much range available.


Nick


Jeff Walters

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:

>The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
>How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
>have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
>ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
>toast before it could get into weapons range.

Come on!! Enough of this shit.........I think a lot of people need to
remember these are just movies and tv shows, not REAL LIFE!! They are
good entertainment, so just enjoy them instead of continuing this
irrelevant crap!!!


Michael S. Day

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Not necessarily. Remember Star Trek VI? Kirk & co. targeted a cloaked
Klingon bird-of-prey by modifying a torpedo to hone in on the gaseous
emissions from the Klingon vessel's ionized plasma vented out its "tail
pipe." That could be done, and the photon torpedo could then acquire a
target no matter how much it moved around. (Besides, put Worf and Sisko on
the Defiant, and Force or no Force, the SW ships wouldn't stand a chance.
'Nuff said.

- Mike

>
> Sorry, but they'd have to be bloody good at course-prediction to be able
to
> hit something that far away, since if they aimed directly, they would hit
> the space where their targets were, and if they aimed in advance of the
> current course of their target, they have to hope the target can't a) see
> the things at all via any means possible, and b) change course.
>
> Also, since I believe SW ships can jump within a relatively short range
of
> their destination/target (assuming they know where to go), the vast
> distances are fairly negatable anyway I think.. only because in the
fight,
> it would be a wasted advantage to have that much range available.
>
>
> Nick

> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!

Poncho

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Jeff Walters <n970...@scholar.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote in article
<5p7kvm$j...@ob1.uws.EDU.AU>...

> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
>
> >The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> >How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> >have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> >ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> >toast before it could get into weapons range.
>
> Come on!! Enough of this shit.........I think a lot of people need to
> remember these are just movies and tv shows, not REAL LIFE!! They are
> good entertainment, so just enjoy them instead of continuing this
> irrelevant crap!!!

Well, you know, people would rather bitch and complain about statistics and
who's got the 'bigger gun' rather than discuss the real reason for the
alt.starwars.xvt newsgroup...discuss the game and its many MANY
shortcomings.

But hey, the issue between Star Wars and Star Trek weapons is way WAY too
important to overlook. These people seriously think that it could happen.
It could! I just hope to see Elvis Presley fly right beside Luke Skywalker
as well....oops! Wrong universe!

Nick Darlington

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Michael S. Day <ms...@weir.net> wrote in article
<01bc856c$6232f480$81dce5ce@dayta>...

> Not necessarily. Remember Star Trek VI? Kirk & co. targeted a cloaked
> Klingon bird-of-prey by modifying a torpedo to hone in on the gaseous
> emissions from the Klingon vessel's ionized plasma vented out its "tail
> pipe." That could be done, and the photon torpedo could then acquire a
> target no matter how much it moved around. (Besides, put Worf and Sisko
on
> the Defiant, and Force or no Force, the SW ships wouldn't stand a
chance.
> 'Nuff said.
>
> - Mike
[snipped]

Fair enough.. to be honest, I hadn't thought of a targetting weapon after
launch.. I was thinking more of dumb torpedoes and laser/phaser type
equipment (for a reason even I don't realise ;) ).

Regards,
Nick


Message has been deleted

Ben Z. Tels

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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So you're saying Star Trek would win? Always thought so.....
--
Ben Z. Tels
opti...@stack.nl

"The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle
forever."
-- Tsiolkovsky
Scott Brewer wrote in article ...
>Uh folks, lets not forget this:
>Star Wars has the force.
>
>Star Trek has young Wesley Crusher
>
>nuff said.


in...@cybercom.smart.net

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Jeff Walters wrote:
>
> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
>
> >The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> >How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> >have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> >ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> >toast before it could get into weapons range.
>
> Come on!! Enough of this shit.........I think a lot of people need to
> remember these are just movies and tv shows, not REAL LIFE!! They are
> good entertainment, so just enjoy them instead of continuing this
> irrelevant crap!!!


=====> But Spock, why stop... these..... children, from their...
childish... debate about us!

It's much more... interesting... than watching, my... overracting on...
tv.

;-)

Rune Berge

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a chance
to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE
Fighters it would Launch. Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy
all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.

PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
<5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...

Exca...@reborn.com

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
to Exca...@reborn.com

In article <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>,

PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
>
> The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> toast before it could get into weapons range.


But you forget that SW can travel in hyperspace. Remember in Revenge of
the Jedi. They were able to come out of hyper space almost right on top
of the Death star. Also SW could easily evade a ST torp coming from 3.5
million km away. SW would kick B*tt! They have the force. ST does not.
:)

David aka

Beyonder

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Timeout

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Nick Darlington wrote:

> Sorry, but they'd have to be bloody good at course-prediction to be
> able to
> hit something that far away, since if they aimed directly, they would
> hit
> the space where their targets were, and if they aimed in advance of
> the
> current course of their target, they have to hope the target can't a)
> see
> the things at all via any means possible, and b) change course.
>
> Also, since I believe SW ships can jump within a relatively short
> range of
> their destination/target (assuming they know where to go), the vast
> distances are fairly negatable anyway I think.. only because in the
> fight,
> it would be a wasted advantage to have that much range available.

But since phasers travel at the speed of light, then it would only take
one second for the phasers to reach the ship and PT's travel at v +
0.75v/c (without breaking the next warp barrier). So effectively, if
the PT is launched at FTL speeds then it would be undetectable by a SW
ship. PT's do not travel in straight lines, they have guidance systems
so it wouldn't matter it the ship moved or not. The jump would be very
dangerous and probably end with the SW ship destroying itself, unless
you think Han was wrong. The distances are not neglitable except for
the SW ships. Additionally, if the PT coasts without changing course,
it has an unlimited range.


AmishOutlaw

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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PJF wrote:
>
> "Arnold" <ms...@metronet.de> writes: > > Who starts this crap anyhow?
> > > Sinewave
> > >
> > >
> >
> > yeah, datz right, it´s well-known that the most realistic movies are the SW
> > movies, so why do you argue about the "fake" ST-series ?!
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
> What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???

Oh, so I suppose BEAMING is based on reality...
Actually, the Force WAS based on reality! Several martial arts have
something similar to the Force... this is really what inspired George
Lucas to use his "Force."
--
AmishOutlaw
Remove "NOSPAM" from my address to E-Mail me!

J'ai envie du poulet ce soir!

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Jun 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM6/30/97
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Ok first let's get it straight that by comparing these things is like
comparing apples and oranges. Now that that is out of the way let's see
who is better. First of all, if you want to get technical, the Star Wars
ships are shooting lasers at each other, and it has been said that the
Enterprise's deflector dish, without the use of shields, can hold them
off. But I think if you pit the Enterprise against a Star Destroyer, I
think the Star Destroyer would begin to win. Since the Star Destroyer is
much bigger and has many weapon turrets, compared to the Enterprises 7
phaser emmiters and 2 photon tubes, it would obliterate the Enterprise in
one strike. It also has swarms of Tie Fighters. Simply put, the
Enterprise would be over-welmed. But the Enterprise has one thing above a
Star Destroyer, the transporter. I'd beam a couple hundred mines into key
locations aboard the ship and watch it blow up. :)
(Honestly there is no way you can compare these due to the
fact that Star Trek is based around modern science and Star Wars is just a
dramatic space opera. But it still is fun!)

-----------------------------Tadd Barnes-----------------------------
-"Han me Boogie..." Ta...@lsds.com "Haggis?"
-Grandpa Jabba Barn...@bigvax.alfred.edu -Ramirez
http://www.lsds.com/tadd
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-

On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Scott Brewer wrote:

> Uh folks, lets not forget this:
> Star Wars has the force.
>
> Star Trek has young Wesley Crusher
>
> nuff said.
>
>

> In article <33B74BC6...@earthlink.net>, sterl...@earthlink.net wrote:


>
> >PJF wrote:
> >
> >> The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> >> How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> >> have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000
> >> km!!
> >> ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> >> toast before it could get into weapons range.
> >

Arnold

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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PJF

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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"Arnold" <ms...@metronet.de> writes: > > Who starts this crap anyhow?
> > Sinewave
> >
> >
>
> yeah, datz right, it愀 well-known that the most realistic movies are the SW

> movies, so why do you argue about the "fake" ST-series ?!
>
>

Daniel Grimwood

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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: Who starts this crap anyhow?
: Sinewave

The question is, why do they cross post to the binary groups
alt.binaries.starwars and alt.binaries.startrek?

Reaper

PJF

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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AmishOutlaw <Amish...@NOSPAMworldnet.att.net> writes: > PJF wrote:
> >
> > "Arnold" <ms...@metronet.de> writes: > > Who starts this crap anyhow?
> > > > Sinewave
> > > >
> > > >
> > >

> > > yeah, datz right, it愀 well-known that the most realistic movies are the SW
> > > movies, so why do you argue about the "fake" ST-series ?!
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
> > What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???
>
> Oh, so I suppose BEAMING is based on reality...
> Actually, the Force WAS based on reality! Several martial arts have
> something similar to the Force... this is really what inspired George
> Lucas to use his "Force."
> --
> AmishOutlaw
> Remove "NOSPAM" from my address to E-Mail me!


You're assuming that these martial arts are based in reality as well.
What if there not?
Fiction based on fiction is still fiction. If we want to be really honest
about it, both ST and SW are equally fake and fictious.

B. J. Zolp

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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Exca...@reborn.com wrote in article <8676699...@dejanews.com>...
> In article <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>,


> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
> >
> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000
km!!
> > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > toast before it could get into weapons range.
>
>

> But you forget that SW can travel in hyperspace. Remember in Revenge of
> the Jedi. They were able to come out of hyper space almost right on top
> of the Death star. Also SW could easily evade a ST torp coming from 3.5
> million km away. SW would kick B*tt! They have the force. ST does not.
> :)
>
> David aka
>
> Beyonder
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet


The force is insignifficant next to the power of Science!!

>

Bashir Dr

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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>But you forget that SW can travel in hyperspace. Remember in Revenge of
>the Jedi. They were able to come out of hyper space almost right on top
>of the Death star. Also SW could easily evade a ST torp coming from 3.5
>million km away. SW would kick B*tt! They have the force. ST does not.
> :)

You can look at other posts to show you that the force doesn't work in
combat; I won't go into it.

As for the hyperspace thing, we have a similar thing called subspace, and
we can appear right on top of ships too. As for the torpedo being evaded,
check out ST VI: TUC. The torpedo in the very end does some pretty good
maneuvers as it follows the gas trail.

Lou (Bash...@aol.com)
"Well I'll be the one laughing when we get back to the station and you find out that I never existed..." Bashir to Obrien in the Enterprise 1701 turbolift

Shilok

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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>
>
> You're assuming that these martial arts are based in reality as well.
> What if there not?
> Fiction based on fiction is still fiction. If we want to be really
honest
> about it, both ST and SW are equally fake and fictious.
>

Tell that to 3,000 generations of Shaolin Monks who would wipe the floor
with Worf, without lifting a finger.


Jon Chapin (Assassin)

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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PJF wrote:
>
> "Arnold" <ms...@metronet.de> writes: > > Who starts this crap anyhow?
> > > Sinewave
> > >
> > >
> >
> > yeah, datz right, it´s well-known that the most realistic movies are the SW

> > movies, so why do you argue about the "fake" ST-series ?!
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
> What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???
The name "Q" comes to mind, and that instance Spock was brought back
from the dead by mind transference, don't know why *shrug*
The difference in the universes? SW has situations that are inescapable
without extreme casualties or deep comprimises, ST has the same thing,
but also has some major loophole in every situation to get everyone and
everything out perfectly fine, mabe a bruise or two, a dead "red shirt"
or two, but other than that(was the only main character that died and
didn't come back by some miracle Tasha Yar?)...
--
That wondering spirit, from the begining of time:
--=============================================--
Colonel Jon "Assassin" Chapin
Wing Commander, BWS Charleston (MIA)
Homepage: http://www.intercom.net/user/chapin/
IRC nicks: Assassin Assasin, Asassin, others, whatever...
Owner and maintainer of the Union of Border Worlds Database, a.k.a.
AceNet Communications
--=============================================--
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast"
-Arnold J Rimmer
B.S.c, S.S.c
--=============================================--
"Meddle not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy, and go well
with Ketchup, fries and a cola."
- Anonymous
--=============================================--
Gravity theorum: If a cat always lands on it's feet, and toast always
lands butter side down, if you put a slice of toast on a cat's back and
drop them, wouldn't they spin just above the ground?

Old programmers never die - they just go to bits, lose their memory,
and cache in their chips.

Levi Wilhelmsen

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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If Star Wars has the Force then Star Trek would too because as Yoda says
the Force is in all things including those in the ST. Universe. And what
do you call warping? That is a form of Hyper speed too. And you are
talking about a 1mi long ship a star destroyer couldn't evade anything!!!
Besides has anyone thought that Star Trek shields could be invulnerable to
Star Wars weapons.

B. J. Zolp <ba...@dataplusnet.com> wrote in article
<01bc85cc$19ecc060$cec2...@b.zolp>...


>
>
> Exca...@reborn.com wrote in article <8676699...@dejanews.com>...
> > In article <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>,
> > PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000
> km!!
> > > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > > toast before it could get into weapons range.
> >
> >

> > But you forget that SW can travel in hyperspace. Remember in Revenge
of
> > the Jedi. They were able to come out of hyper space almost right on
top
> > of the Death star. Also SW could easily evade a ST torp coming from
3.5
> > million km away. SW would kick B*tt! They have the force. ST does
not.
> > :)
> >

Sinewave

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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In article <5p9o2l$gb6$1...@enyo.uwa.edu.au>, Daniel Grimwood
<rea...@earwax.pd.uwa.edu.au> wrote:

> : Who starts this crap anyhow?
> : Sinewave
>

> The question is, why do they cross post to the binary groups
> alt.binaries.starwars and alt.binaries.startrek?
>
> Reaper

Yes I agree that is a better question...one that I have been asking for
awhile now.
Sinewave


Nathan Rutman

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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Sinewave wrote:

> Who starts this crap anyhow?
> Sinewave

oh...lighten up...argueing is fun!


James Grady Ward

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

Nick Darlington wrote:
>
> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
> <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...
> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > toast before it could get into weapons range.
>
> Sorry, but they'd have to be bloody good at course-prediction to be able to
> hit something that far away, since if they aimed directly, they would hit
> the space where their targets were, and if they aimed in advance of the
> current course of their target, they have to hope the target can't a) see
> the things at all via any means possible, and b) change course.

Well just how fast can SW ships change course? You do realize
that 300,000 km would just be around one second for either a laser
or a phaser. That means that in one second, the SW ship has to notice
it has been fired on and change course and have time to actually
move along the new course.

>
> Also, since I believe SW ships can jump within a relatively short range of
> their destination/target (assuming they know where to go), the vast
> distances are fairly negatable anyway I think.. only because in the fight,
> it would be a wasted advantage to have that much range available.

Not really since the range of a energy based weapon would
tell you how quickly the "strength" of the beam is decaying
with the range of the weapon being the maximum distance that
it can still do damage.

--
buckysan

annapuma and unapumma in 98

44% of people think there is intelligent life besides earth
44% of people think there is intelligent life in washington DC

James Grady Ward

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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Rune Berge wrote:
>
> Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
> directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a chance
> to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
> to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
> confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE
> Fighters it would Launch.

Have you forgoten that it only took about 10 X-wings to blow up
the first death star? Also have we seen anything to indicate that
SW ships can hit a ship that can manuver at speeds over 50% of light?
Not to mention, a ST ship could probably detect a ship coming
out of hyperspace so it would be welcomed by a small barage of
torpedoes.


> Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy
> all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.

And just why does hyperspace make this so easy?

James Grady Ward

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

Exca...@reborn.com wrote:
>
> In article <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>,
> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote:
> >
> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > toast before it could get into weapons range.
>
> But you forget that SW can travel in hyperspace. Remember in Revenge of
> the Jedi. They were able to come out of hyper space almost right on top
> of the Death star.

So, ST ships can track FTL travel.

> Also SW could easily evade a ST torp coming from 3.5
> million km away.

The torpedos can change course and be programed to follow
specific gases. Not to mention, they could fire more than
one making it impossible to avoid them all.

> SW would kick B*tt! They have the force. ST does not.

Actually it does. The force is nothing more than a generlized
telepathic ability. This does exist in ST, it is just not
as developed.

Nick

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

J'ai envie du poulet ce soir! wrote in article ...

>Ok first let's get it straight that by comparing these things is like
>comparing apples and oranges. Now that that is out of the way let's see
>who is better. First of all, if you want to get technical, the Star Wars
>ships are shooting lasers at each other, and it has been said that the
>Enterprise's deflector dish, without the use of shields, can hold them
>off. But I think if you pit the Enterprise against a Star Destroyer, I
>think the Star Destroyer would begin to win. Since the Star Destroyer is

>much bigger and has many weapon turrets, compared to the Enterprises 7
>phaser emmiters and 2 photon tubes, it would obliterate the Enterprise in

Wrong! All Galaxy Class ships (Which the Enterprise-D is) have 14 phaser
emmiters and 3 torpedo tubes. Not much difernece but it ticks me off when
people who are putting down ST screw up on technical stuff. Get the facts
before you post!!! (you could easily get the facts by reading the TNG Tech
Manual)

Nick

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

>> Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
>> What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???
>
>Oh, so I suppose BEAMING is based on reality...
>Actually, the Force WAS based on reality! Several martial arts have
>something similar to the Force... this is really what inspired George
>Lucas to use his "Force."
>--
>AmishOutlaw
>Remove "NOSPAM" from my address to E-Mail me!
>


Does crossing the galaxy in a few days sound real? At least the writers of
ST know that The Milky Way (or ANY galaxy for that matter, including the SW
galaxy) are REAL BIG! Come on!!! That's what realy bugs me about star
wars, crossing the galaxy in a few days at .5 above the speed of light!

What was George thinking when he put that line in about "They could be half
way across the Galaxy" when refering the Millenium Falcon(sp?), which, as I
said above goes .5 above the speed of light.

Nick Darlington

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote in article
<33B933...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
[snip]

> Have you forgoten that it only took about 10 X-wings to blow up
> the first death star? Also have we seen anything to indicate that
> SW ships can hit a ship that can manuver at speeds over 50% of light?
> Not to mention, a ST ship could probably detect a ship coming
> out of hyperspace so it would be welcomed by a small barage of
> torpedoes.

Those x-wings, as covered in a recent post of mine (so I'll be brief here),
would never have initiated the attack had the rebels not gotten hold of,
and analysed, the blue-prints of afore-mentioned station (the whole story
behind the first film - in case you missed it ;) ).

Also remember that Leia was a member of the Imperial Senate (if I remember
rightly) and without her, the rebels would have run since they would have
found it difficult to penetrate into the high ranks of the imperial side.

> > Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy
> > all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.
>
> And just why does hyperspace make this so easy?

IMO, the DS is better at defence than attack (against spacecraft) since
it's not a 'flyer' as such, but sits in orbits waiting for the right moment
to attack.. the hyperspace capability would allow it to hop great distances
in short time, likely this would be undetected by radars and such as well,
but I think it would be useless by itself after first coming out of
hyperspace, and would have to rely on SD escorts and fighter squadrons
whilst it powered up and aimed.. (trying to apply common-sense to fantasy
here - please bear with it). I'm not aware of the DS's ability to 'turn'
and target a space craft (yet)..


Regards,
Nick


Christopher Patterson

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
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PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
<5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...

> The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> toast before it could get into weapons range.
>


SW ships are faster than any Fed ship. They SW fighters could get up close
to a Fed ship and blowit away. No matter what range SW ship could whip a
Fed ship's ass


John Myers

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

The main thrust of arguement for the Star Wars universe winning a fight
against the Star Trek universe is that the Star Wars people have the force.

Firstly - How many people in Star Wars have the force? Even before the jedi
holocaust they were one in a hundred thousand. The Jedi would have to be
spread pretty thin, though even so they would be a big advantage.
Second - Why do you assume that Star Trek doesn't have the force? They
don't seem to have Jedi but that's not the same thing. There are plenty of
examples of Star Trek races having powers like the Jedi so there is a good
chance that they could learn, they both seem to be mostly populated by
humans. The Vulcans seem to be most of the way to being Jedi anyway, one
small step and Bingo.Thought : If the Star Trek Universe doesn't have the
force would the Emperor want it? He'd never be able to visit without
becoming weak.
Third - Who would win a fight between a Talosian and a Jedi (non-dark)?
Jedis have to be at peace and calm to use their powers without falling prey
to the Dark side. The only know way to break a Talosian induced mental
illusion is strong emotions like anger.


'Anakin' B Chow

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Jul 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/1/97
to

Question: Why the HELL would I check it out from the library or even spend
a cent on such a piece of crap?

Anakin Skywalker


Jason A. A.

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

On Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:29:51 -0400, "Nick" <nick.d...@usa.net>
wrote:

>
>Wrong! All Galaxy Class ships (Which the Enterprise-D is) have 14 phaser
>emmiters and 3 torpedo tubes. Not much difernece but it ticks me off when
>people who are putting down ST screw up on technical stuff. Get the facts
>before you post!!! (you could easily get the facts by reading the TNG Tech
>Manual)

I do believe you mean 12. Saucer dorsal. Saucer venteral. Stardrive
venteral, Stardrive forward, 1 each on the nacelle pylon, and 6
others.


____________________
Jason Andrew Atkinson
=====================
Ash nazg durbatuluk,
ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatuluk
agh burzum-ishi krimpatul!
\\\\\\\ LOTR- JRRT.
+++++++++++++++++++++
For e-mail, please remove ANTISPAM


modonne

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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In article <01bc85aa$53df2a00$85e0...@aadneb.online.no>, "Rune Berge"
<aad...@online.no> wrote:

> Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
> directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a chance
> to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
> to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
> confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE

> Fighters it would Launch. Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy


> all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.
>

> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
> <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...
> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > toast before it could get into weapons range.
> >

Now look - in Star Wars when you are in Hyperspace you can't scan in real
space. In Star Trek when you are in Subspace you can scan normal space.
Also, like I explain in another reply somewhere, ANY energy weapon that is
not polarised will simply energise a ST ships shields. Visit
http://www.midcoast.com.au/users/modonne/STPhysics.html for ST physics in
about 1 weeks time.. But simply, everyone is forgeting about shields. ST
shields work on having subspace distortions which turn a polarised object
or beam into untuned plasma. If the object or beam is already untuned
plasma, then the shield simply energises to drain it of it's kinetic
energy and the turbolaser blast turns into the equivilent of a mosquito
bite on a tree - useless. So you would be able to use a shuttlecraft
against a SUPER STAR DESTROYER and you would still win, you'd just get
knocked around by the kinetic energy of the blasts.
Now for the TIE's. Phasers travel at the speed of light. As soon as a
TIE came close, you would be able to fry it with a secondary phaser bank
on the engineering hull while you were slicing the SSD to bits.
Finally, Star Wars shields are simply designed to halt the kinetic
energy, and the shields drain if you just hit them. ST shields only drain
by using energy to break up a beams polarity (I'll explain torpdoes in a
minute). They might seem the same, but a ST ship has protection against
Kinetic energy because of the gravitron fields between the subspace
layers, and against polarised weapons. That's how it's protected against
phasers. But the SW ships only have Kinetic protection. The energy
dissipates automatically. A SW beam weapon disspates when it hits a
surface, a ST beam weapon needs to be broken up. ST shields break up a ST
beam weapon, SW shields don't. The ST beam weapon would slice through the
shields with only a minor loss in velocity.

I will stick up for SW in one way - it would take quite a while to cut
up a SSD!

Kane O'Donnell, 14
mod...@midcoast.com.au

Jon Chapin (Assassin)

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

James Grady Ward wrote:

>
> Rune Berge wrote:
> >
> > Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
> > directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a chance
> > to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
> > to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
> > confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE
> > Fighters it would Launch.
>
> Have you forgoten that it only took about 10 X-wings to blow up
> the first death star?
Lets see, that was because of a fluke and weakness in the station,
right? I don't think 10 X-Wings could just attack the Deathstar and
destroy it without the weakness. I suppose it may only take ten guys in
space suits to destroy a Federation starship if it had a self destruct
button on the outside hull :-) What I'm saying is, it was a weakness in
the plan, I'm sure they fixed that in the newer versions, and if the
outer hull was completed (no hole straight to the reactor core), the
outcome of the Endor Battle would have been quite different.

>Also have we seen anything to indicate that
> SW ships can hit a ship that can manuver at speeds over 50% of light?
> Not to mention, a ST ship could probably detect a ship coming
> out of hyperspace so it would be welcomed by a small barage of
> torpedoes.
Well, here's where the ST vs SW universe takes a turn for the pro SW and
pro you can't really compare. First off, sure they can manuver fast,
but only as fast as you can type in the coordinates of the path you want
to take/call up a subroutine. You'll be flying in a predictable pattern
or in a straight line for long periods of time eventually in a ST ship,
and all a SW fighter has to do to attack is push his flight yoke in the
correct directions and bam, yer hit. Plus, it's nice that some torps
would wait for ya, but yet again, the clear advantage goes to SW
fighters/less than cap ships in all they have to do is pull up on the
stick when the warning lights come up and they're in the clear. So far
what I've seen VERY few homing torps in the ST universe (one, in ST VI,
which had to be specially modified, and have heard of one other
instance), so those are basically useless against SW standard ships, and
if phasers work the same (as I guess) by using the ships projected path
along the line it's taking now instead of an operator aiming and using
good judgement, ST ships are gonna have a helluva time hitting SW ships
(except the big ones, which operate on the same basis as ST ships)

Then again, this proves more the truth it's hard to compare, really. SW
Ships go on the basis of naval warfare with fighter combat (air naval
battles), while ST ships seem to go more on submarine warfare. It's
hard to combine the two without giving huge advantages to both sides.
It's just a bit odd to me why it would be prudent to have the sides
battle. I like both ST and SW, but I prefer SW because you can have
more fun there, while in ST it's either regulated military life, even if
yer a civilian, or hellish anarchy. I think I'd have more fun in Mos
Eisley than on a pleasure planet, but that's just me. I can't stand
perfection, there has to be something wrong for me to feel "yeah, this
is real." (one of my fave ST scenes was in STIII where McCoy was in the
that awesome bar with Spocks mind asking about Genysis):-)


> > Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy
> > all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.
>

> And just why does hyperspace make this so easy?

A) You can't attack/detect a ship in hyperspace (is true, since
Hyperspace is in a different dimension) until it comes out. A well
planned attack could take earth out in around a minute with minimal
casualties. It would be hard to arange, though, considering no bodies of
mass gravitation could be near or in the path to the destination outside
earth where the DStar would hyper, fire, and hyper out.


>
> --
> buckysan
>
> annapuma and unapumma in 98
>
> 44% of people think there is intelligent life besides earth
> 44% of people think there is intelligent life in washington DC

--

Nick Darlington

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

modonne <mod...@midcoast.com.au> wrote in article
<modonne-0207...@mcport16.midcoast.com.au>...
[snip]

> Also, like I explain in another reply somewhere, ANY energy weapon that
is
> not polarised will simply energise a ST ships shields.
[snip]

According to someone else (Ben I think), if you charge something up beyond
it's normal capacity, you can cause it to overload and
explode/discharge/whatever.

So saying that their shields were up (fully) and they got hit by some big
mother of a barrage (SSD/DS/whatever), how long would it be before the
shields overloaded and became a liability for the ST craft (maybe too long
or some other spock/scotty style excuse can be used, but I'd like to hear
it).?

Or does the shot not provide energy to the shields, you were just
indicating that the shields energised from their source to hold off the
shot?

> ...ST


> shields work on having subspace distortions which turn a polarised object
> or beam into untuned plasma. If the object or beam is already untuned
> plasma, then the shield simply energises to drain it of it's kinetic
> energy and the turbolaser blast turns into the equivilent of a mosquito
> bite on a tree - useless. So you would be able to use a shuttlecraft
> against a SUPER STAR DESTROYER and you would still win, you'd just get
> knocked around by the kinetic energy of the blasts.

[snip]

If I was in the SSD, and this shuttlecraft was playing it's silly little
game like this, I'd get seriously p@$!ed off and ram the fu...... you get
the idea ;) Then we'd see how knocked around by kinetic energy the
shuttlecraft can really enjoy. :)

James Grady Ward

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

Nick wrote:
>

> Does crossing the galaxy in a few days sound real? At least the writers of
> ST know that The Milky Way (or ANY galaxy for that matter, including the SW
> galaxy) are REAL BIG! Come on!!! That's what realy bugs me about star
> wars, crossing the galaxy in a few days at .5 above the speed of light!
>
> What was George thinking when he put that line in about "They could be half
> way across the Galaxy" when refering the Millenium Falcon(sp?), which, as I
> said above goes .5 above the speed of light.

Simple, it is an extension of a current day methaphor. Ever heard
someone
say that someone else could be "on the other side of the planet for all
I
know". What everyone I know took that line to be was just extending
that
methaphor conecpt to a space setting.

James Grady Ward

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

Christopher Patterson wrote:
>
> PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
> <5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...
> > The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> > How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> > have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> > ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> > toast before it could get into weapons range.
> >
>
> SW ships are faster than any Fed ship. They SW fighters could get up close
> to a Fed ship and blowit away. No matter what range SW ship could whip a
> Fed ship's ass

And from just where do you get the speeds of the SW ships? Besides
unless
you are going to claim the SW ships is untrackable, the ST ship could
just
fire along its flight path.

James Grady Ward

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

Nick Darlington wrote:
>
> modonne <mod...@midcoast.com.au> wrote in article
> <modonne-0207...@mcport16.midcoast.com.au>...

> > ...ST


> > shields work on having subspace distortions which turn a polarised object
> > or beam into untuned plasma. If the object or beam is already untuned
> > plasma, then the shield simply energises to drain it of it's kinetic
> > energy and the turbolaser blast turns into the equivilent of a mosquito
> > bite on a tree - useless. So you would be able to use a shuttlecraft
> > against a SUPER STAR DESTROYER and you would still win, you'd just get
> > knocked around by the kinetic energy of the blasts.
> [snip]
>
> If I was in the SSD, and this shuttlecraft was playing it's silly little
> game like this, I'd get seriously p@$!ed off and ram the fu...... you get
> the idea ;) Then we'd see how knocked around by kinetic energy the
> shuttlecraft can really enjoy. :)

Umm like the shuttle cant turn faster than the SSD? Not to mention,
how close do you realy think the shuttle would be to the SSD.

Nick Darlington

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote in article
<33BA6D...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
[snip]

> Umm like the shuttle cant turn faster than the SSD? Not to mention,
> how close do you realy think the shuttle would be to the SSD.

It was a joke... I think you've been listening to Spock for too long. :P

Regards,
Nick


Graham Kennedy

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

In article <5pblv4$6...@cabernet.niagara.com>, Nick
<nick.d...@usa.net> writes

> J'ai envie du poulet ce soir! wrote in article ...
>>Ok first let's get it straight that by comparing these things is like
>>comparing apples and oranges. Now that that is out of the way let's see
>>who is better. First of all, if you want to get technical, the Star Wars
>>ships are shooting lasers at each other, and it has been said that the
>>Enterprise's deflector dish, without the use of shields, can hold them
>>off. But I think if you pit the Enterprise against a Star Destroyer, I
>>think the Star Destroyer would begin to win. Since the Star Destroyer is
>
>>much bigger and has many weapon turrets, compared to the Enterprises 7
>>phaser emmiters and 2 photon tubes, it would obliterate the Enterprise in
>
>Wrong! All Galaxy Class ships (Which the Enterprise-D is) have 14 phaser
>emmiters and 3 torpedo tubes. Not much difernece but it ticks me off when
>people who are putting down ST screw up on technical stuff. Get the facts
>before you post!!! (you could easily get the facts by reading the TNG Tech
>Manual)
>
>

Actually, there are twelve phaser banks. Two on the saucer upper and
lower surface, three on the "cobra neck" - one of which can only be used
when the saucer section is disconnected. Two on the nacelle pylons, one
on the underside of the engineering hull, and four flanking the aft
torpedo launcher on the upper and lower surfaces.

--
Graham Kennedy

dangermouse

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to


Rune Berge <aad...@online.no> wrote in article
<01bc85aa$53df2a00$85e0...@aadneb.online.no>...


> Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
> directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a
chance
> to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
> to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
> confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE

> Fighters it would Launch. Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy


> all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.

The SW universe has no transporters, though - all that's needed is to beam
a quantity of unshielded antimatter (or armed torpedos/Jem'Hadar/Borg -
delete as applicable) aboard and watch the fun...


JamesG

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

Nick wrote:

> Does crossing the galaxy in a few days sound real? At least the
> writers of ST know that The Milky Way (or ANY galaxy for that matter,
> including the SW galaxy) are REAL BIG! Come on!!! That's what realy
> bugs me about star wars, crossing the galaxy in a few days at .5 above
> the speed of light!

> What was George thinking when he put that line in about "They could be
> half way across the Galaxy" when refering the Millenium Falcon(sp?),
> which, as I said above goes .5 above the speed of light.

Except "point five past lightspeed" does not mean "1.5c" but infact "A
speed rating refered to as 'point five' while in hyperspace, aka 'past
lightspeed'".

Point five actually refers to the Falcon's hyperdrive multiplier - being
twice as fast as a standard x1 hyperdrive and 4 times faster than a x2
hyperdrive and so on not to exact speed which is meaningless in
hyperspace where the route taken is more important than the speed
traveled at...

JamesG,
binaries group snipped
************************************************************************
* Official RASSM Organiser. Will design starships for food. *
* (-o-) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/2843 <*> *
* "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable *
* one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all *
* progress depends on the unreasonable man." George Bernard Shaw. *
************************************************************************

Jason A. A.

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

On Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:17:12 -0700, 'Anakin' B Chow
<ana...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>Question: Why the HELL would I check it out from the library or even spend
>a cent on such a piece of crap?
>

If you want to acutally know what the hell you are talking about.

Jason A. A.

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

On Wed, 02 Jul 1997 11:52:26 GMT, "Nick Darlington"
<ne...@nickd.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
>If I was in the SSD, and this shuttlecraft was playing it's silly little
>game like this, I'd get seriously p@$!ed off and ram the fu...... you get
>the idea ;) Then we'd see how knocked around by kinetic energy the
>shuttlecraft can really enjoy. :)

Which leads to another reason I do not take SDs or SSDs seriously.
The things are so easy to destroy. I mean, all you have to do is take
out the shield generator towers, which can be done easily with
X-wings, (see ROTJ), and then slam something through the WINDOWS, (why
don't these "super advanced" people have view screens?) of the bridge.
You can easily destroy those towers with phasers from long range, and
send a couple of photon torpedoes through vulnerable points (the
Empire likes to make things with weak spots, it seems) such as the
bridge, destroying it, or at least putting it out of action. I mean,
if a few fighters, or a couple of astroids, or just a few ion shots
can mess those things up, the E-E or Defient could make very short
work of them.

ohjo...@hgc.edu

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
to

>> SW ships can hit a ship that can manuver at speeds over 50% of light?
>> Not to mention, a ST ship could probably detect a ship coming
>> out of hyperspace so it would be welcomed by a small barage of
>> torpedoes.
>Well, here's where the ST vs SW universe takes a turn for the pro SW and
>pro you can't really compare. First off, sure they can manuver fast,
>but only as fast as you can type in the coordinates of the path you want
>to take/call up a subroutine. You'll be flying in a predictable pattern
>or in a straight line for long periods of time eventually in a ST ship,
>and all a SW fighter has to do to attack is push his flight yoke in the
>correct directions and bam, yer hit. Plus, it's nice that some torps
>would wait for ya, but yet again, the clear advantage goes to SW
>fighters/less than cap ships in all they have to do is pull up on the

I have to disagree on this point because in all the star wars movies that
we have seen, all targetting in Star Wars is manual. Moreover, the speed
of SW fighters is very slow compared to the speed from impulse power in
ST. Full throttle took Luke's X-wing a full minute to make that trench
run. That trench would have a maximum distance of the circumference of the
DS which is the size of a small moon. However, impulse power allows a ship
to travel up to 1/2 the speed of light from the tech manuals that some
people have talked about here. That is a huge discrepancy in speeds and
there is no way that a SW fighter pilot will have the ability to chase
down and even hit a ship that is travelling at an insane sublight speed.

>stick when the warning lights come up and they're in the clear. So far
>what I've seen VERY few homing torps in the ST universe (one, in ST VI,
>which had to be specially modified, and have heard of one other
>instance), so those are basically useless against SW standard ships, and
>if phasers work the same (as I guess) by using the ships projected path
>along the line it's taking now instead of an operator aiming and using
>good judgement, ST ships are gonna have a helluva time hitting SW ships
>(except the big ones, which operate on the same basis as ST ships)

Actually, phasers have been shown to be guided by a computer targetting
system and operate as a point-defense system against fighters and smaller
objects. In that ep where the entire crew lost their memory and were
fighting that bogus war, the phasers destroyed a fighter squadron in a
couple seconds without a single miss. In another ep, the Feds and the
Ferengi and others were bidding for a supposedly stable wormhole and the
ferengi fired a missile at the wormhole. The E-D destroyed the missile
with a single phaser shot. In Generations, Worf reported that the E-D
could destroy the star-destroying missile in around 22 seconds - a missile
that could achieve warp speed. However, a lot of that 22 seconds was
because the E-D did not know where it would be fired from - the Bird of
Prey or a planet in a star system. This gives an indication of how good
the E-D's targetting system is - only 22 seconds needed for a lock on a
warp-capable missile in an area of an entire solar system while not know
where it would be fired from.

>
>Then again, this proves more the truth it's hard to compare, really. SW
>Ships go on the basis of naval warfare with fighter combat (air naval
>battles), while ST ships seem to go more on submarine warfare. It's
>hard to combine the two without giving huge advantages to both sides.
>It's just a bit odd to me why it would be prudent to have the sides
>battle. I like both ST and SW, but I prefer SW because you can have
>more fun there, while in ST it's either regulated military life, even if
>yer a civilian, or hellish anarchy. I think I'd have more fun in Mos
>Eisley than on a pleasure planet, but that's just me.

Me too. :)

>I can't stand
>perfection, there has to be something wrong for me to feel "yeah, this
>is real." (one of my fave ST scenes was in STIII where McCoy was in the

I agree here. I thought DS9 would be a more 'rugged and dirtier' series
but was sort of disappointed when it failed in this respect.

Martin Styk

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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AmishOutlaw <Amish...@NOSPAMworldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<33B85F...@NOSPAMworldnet.att.net>...


> > Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
> > What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???
>
> Oh, so I suppose BEAMING is based on reality...
> Actually, the Force WAS based on reality! Several martial arts have
> something similar to the Force... this is really what inspired George
> Lucas to use his "Force."

Acctually this is what it is:

"Psychokinesis (PK), or the ability to affect objects at a
distance by means other than known physical forces.

The physical effects, or PK, include the movement
of physical objects or an influence upon material
processes by the apparent direct action of mind over matter."

...taken from Encarta 97 under "Psychical Research"
There has been a lot of work done in that field. A lot
of documented facts. If anything PK is the "Force"
in SW.

Nick Darlington

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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Martin Styk <stykmNO-SPAM!!!@sympatico.ca> wrote in article
<01bc873d$81533500$0100007f@default>...
[...]

> Acctually this is what it is:
>
> "Psychokinesis (PK), or the ability to affect objects at a
> distance by means other than known physical forces.
>
> The physical effects, or PK, include the movement
> of physical objects or an influence upon material
> processes by the apparent direct action of mind over matter."
>
> ...taken from Encarta 97 under "Psychical Research"
> There has been a lot of work done in that field. A lot
> of documented facts. If anything PK is the "Force"
> in SW.

So the Storm Trooper on Mos Eisley was a PHYSICAL string puppet of
Obi-wan's, having his lungs and vocal chords moving in co-ordination to
emit sound, and not his mind that had been taken control of then?

I didn't think this was something covered by PK, and if so, the 'Force' was
not simply PK as your idea suggests.

Regards,
Nick


Nick Darlington

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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ohjo...@hgc.edu wrote in article <5pedq5$66c$1...@merlin.hgc.edu>...
[...]

> I have to disagree on this point because in all the star wars movies
that
> we have seen, all targetting in Star Wars is manual. Moreover, the speed
> of SW fighters is very slow compared to the speed from impulse power in
> ST. Full throttle took Luke's X-wing a full minute to make that trench
> run. That trench would have a maximum distance of the circumference of
the
> DS which is the size of a small moon. However, impulse power allows a
ship
> to travel up to 1/2 the speed of light from the tech manuals that some
> people have talked about here. That is a huge discrepancy in speeds and
> there is no way that a SW fighter pilot will have the ability to chase
> down and even hit a ship that is travelling at an insane sublight speed.
[...]

I kind of disagree with any ship attempting to fly (and change direction)
at anything other than the fastest modern day travelling speeds.. that is,
unless they have efficient cleaning processes on board to take care of the
captain's breakfast spewn over one wall and his brains across the other..
(that is, if they want to be able to slow down reasonably from this 1/2
light speed to be ale to stop or turn.. hardly combat speed is it?).

I don't know the effects of an object inside another in space (eg: crew and
ship) whilst the ship is moving around, but at the minimum, it's going to
mess up your head at that speed.

Regards,
Nick


Vinny

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On Thu, 03 Jul 1997 01:14:48 +1000, McDougall <mcdo...@ne.com.au>
wrote:
>You talk about Star Wars being a space opera and ST is real science.
>Sonce when does real science constitute transporters. That's just too
>much science fiction.

Actually if you got out and read up on things or watch stuff like
Strange Universe,transporter technology is possible right now if we
figure out a medium that can store gigantic amounts of information...
I think it was something like we'd need about 1 gig per atom
transported,right now that isn't real practical or useful but I'm sure
in 400 years or so we might be able to do something ;)

btw,what's with all this ST vs SW stuff?...I mean they're two
different universes and two different visions of the future,far apart
too,so why even try to compare them like they're in some war?...

Just my 2 bits of bad grammar and posting inexperience =)
-Vinny

B.J.

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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Nick Darlington wrote:
>
> ohjo...@hgc.edu wrote in article <5pedq5$66c$1...@merlin.hgc.edu>...
> [...]
> > I have to disagree on this point because in all the star wars movies
> that
> > we have seen, all targetting in Star Wars is manual. Moreover, the speed
> > of SW fighters is very slow compared to the speed from impulse power in
> > ST. Full throttle took Luke's X-wing a full minute to make that trench
> > run. That trench would have a maximum distance of the circumference of
> the
> > DS which is the size of a small moon. However, impulse power allows a
> ship
> > to travel up to 1/2 the speed of light from the tech manuals that some
> > people have talked about here. That is a huge discrepancy in speeds and
> > there is no way that a SW fighter pilot will have the ability to chase
> > down and even hit a ship that is travelling at an insane sublight speed.
> [...]
>
> I kind of disagree with any ship attempting to fly (and change direction)
> at anything other than the fastest modern day travelling speeds.. that is,
> unless they have efficient cleaning processes on board to take care of the
> captain's breakfast spewn over one wall and his brains across the other..
> (that is, if they want to be able to slow down reasonably from this 1/2
> light speed to be ale to stop or turn.. hardly combat speed is it?).

All Federation starships are equiped with inertial dampers.
Inertial Dampers are (according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia)
field-manipulation devices designed to compensate for the
acceleration forces when a space vehicle changes speed or
direction.

This is how a starship can change direction at such high speeds.

Emily

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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OK what I believe I have heard and read is that the MF went .5 past the
speed of light BEFORE it went in to hyperspace, and also warp speed and
hyperspace are two entirely different types of transportation. In warp
speed the Enterprise never went past the speed of light what it did is
using the dillithium crystals it bent space and time and wrinkled up
space time like a rug and then simply traveled the space to the next
star using a less than light speed means. In hyperspace a ship crosses
in to the 4th dimension or a higher dimension where the laws of physics
are different. In the 4th dimension it is diff. than the 3rd like the
3rd is from 2 dimensions. So the Mill. Falcon would be able to go in to
another dimension where ST sensors would be useless as the SW ships were
in another dimension. Also it is my understanding that to go in to
another dimension "Hyperspace" you need so much energy that it would be
enough to tear the earth apart. To the matter of Turbolasers vs. Phasers
the SW turbolasers may be different like a particle laser or use some
other form of energy than light yet still called laser or maybe it uses
a type of crystal or gas that makes the energy stronger, I don't know
but on one note the SW people are harnessing far greater amounts of
energy than are ST, the ST people may have stronger weapons but you
people seem to be forgetting one point the if SW did happen to go
against ST the SW people have such great amounts of scientists and
resources availabe that when they captured Fed Technology and figured
out how it worked then they could refit their ships just think a Star
Destroyer with 60 heavy phasers and god knows how many torpedoes.
Besides if they had too SW ships could just Ram ST ships. The
Interdictor cruisers would also spell doom to ST ships because their
warp drives can cause the Star Bow effect or something like that which
will destroy the ship when a ST ships tries to go warp in a gravity
well. Also the force can be used to lower someone's concentration or
make it so the reflexes were better and also Luke could block blaster
shots with his light sabre and Darth Vader could block them with his
hand. Also Yoda lifted luke xwing out of the swamp so why couldn't
someone like yoda create a shield against phasers or take them over and
remold their minds like Master C'boath in "The last command." if Sw
fought ST right now SW would win. They just have too many advantages.

Emily

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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Nick wrote:
>
> >> Yeah, SW's "force" sounds really based on reality. Not!
> >> What's more fake? ST's "science" or SW's "force"???
> >
> >Oh, so I suppose BEAMING is based on reality...
> >Actually, the Force WAS based on reality! Several martial arts have
> >something similar to the Force... this is really what inspired George
> >Lucas to use his "Force."
> >--
> >AmishOutlaw
> >Remove "NOSPAM" from my address to E-Mail me!
> >
>
> Does crossing the galaxy in a few days sound real? At least the writers of
> ST know that The Milky Way (or ANY galaxy for that matter, including the SW
> galaxy) are REAL BIG! Come on!!! That's what realy bugs me about star
> wars, crossing the galaxy in a few days at .5 above the speed of light!
>
> What was George thinking when he put that line in about "They could be half
> way across the Galaxy" when refering the Millenium Falcon(sp?), which, as I
> said above goes .5 above the speed of light.

Yavin

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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BC86FC.388EE260
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Original Excerpt:


What was George thinking when he put that line in about "They could be half

way across the Galaxy" when referring the Millennium Falcon(sp?), which, as


I
said above goes .5 above the speed of light.

Corrections:
I think that it was an exaggeration, he didn't pull out a calculator and
calculate the exact distance that a ship would travel in that time. The
line was used to show that there was no way the Imperials could catch the
ship. And the .5 past lightspeed was the sublight speed for the Millennium
Falcon's sublight engine. There really is no reliable way to measure
hyperspeed, because it is in another dimension that nobody can (as of yet)
remain stationary and not many people fully understand hyperspace. Only the
most experienced and theorized techs can explain the working practices of
making a hyperspace jump. Although it is an old and safe way to travel
throughout the Galaxy.
I got all of this info from the STAR WARS TECHNICAL JOURNAL
--
STAR WARS Quote of the Day!
"Look Sir, Droids!" ----Storm Tooper in ANH
Yavin

PS. This post was made in HTML format. If you see any color in this please
mail me at ya...@n-jcenter.com

------=_NextPart_000_01BC86FC.388EE260
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Comic Sans MS">Original Excerpt:<br><font =
face=3D"Arial">What was George thinking when he put that line in about =
&quot;They could be half<br>way across the Galaxy&quot; when referring =
the Millennium Falcon(sp?), which, as I<br>said above goes .5 above the =
speed of light.<br><br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Courier =
New"><b>Corrections:<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Impress BT">I think that =
it was an exaggeration, he didn't pull out a calculator and calculate =
the exact distance that a ship would travel in that time. The line was =
used to show that there was no way the Imperials could catch the ship. =
And the .5 past lightspeed was the sublight speed for the Millennium =
Falcon's sublight engine. There really is no reliable way to measure =
hyperspeed, because it is in another dimension that nobody can (as of =
yet) remain stationary and not many people fully understand hyperspace. =
Only the most experienced and theorized techs can explain the working =
practices of making a hyperspace jump. Although it is an old and safe =
way to travel throughout the Galaxy.</p>
<p align=3Dcenter></b><font size=3D5 color=3D"#FF0000" =
face=3D"Arial"><i><u>I got all of this info from the </i><b>STAR WARS =
TECHNICAL JOURNAL</u></b><font size=3D2></p>
<p><font color=3D"#000000">-- <br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Broadway =
BT">STAR WARS Quote of the Day!<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;Look Sir, =
Droids!&quot; ----Storm Tooper in ANH<br><font face=3D"Cooper Blk BT"> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Yavin<br><br><font color=3D"#008000">PS. <font =
color=3D"#000000">This post was made in HTML format. If you see any =
color in this please mail me at <i>ya...@n-jcenter.com<br><font size=3D2 =
face=3D"Arial"><br></p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BC86FC.388EE260--


'Anakin' B Chow

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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On 3 Jul 1997, Picard42 wrote:

> McDougall <mcdo...@ne.com.au> wrote:
> >James Grady Ward wrote:
> >>
> >> Rune Berge wrote:
> >> >

> >> > Your forgetting some very important details! A SW ship can hyperspace
> >> > directly within range of a federation ship. The phasors hasn't got a chance
> >> > to hit a ship in hyperspace. So if a Super Star Destroyer hypered in next
> >> > to a ship like the Enterprise, the ST ship wouldn't have a chance
> >> > confronting the firepower of a Super Star Destroyer and the dozens of TIE
> >> > Fighters it would Launch.
> >>

> >> Have you forgoten that it only took about 10 X-wings to blow up

> >> the first death star? Also have we seen anything to indicate that


> >> SW ships can hit a ship that can manuver at speeds over 50% of light?
> >> Not to mention, a ST ship could probably detect a ship coming
> >> out of hyperspace so it would be welcomed by a small barage of
> >> torpedoes.
> >

> >If you look at the Battle of Yavin. There were one sqaudron of X-Wings
> >and one squadron of Y-Wings. Only three ships came back and all there
> >was to destroy the Death Star was a well placed proton torp.
> >Of the twenty-four that went, how many came back? Three. That's how good
> >SW wepaons and spaceships are. Tough as a rock.


> >
> >> > Furthermore, a Death Star would easily destroy
> >> > all the Federations planets since it's got hyperspace capability.
> >>

> >> And just why does hyperspace make this so easy?
> >

> >IT makes it so easy that the DS can track the federation down no matter
> >where they went. This way can't hide.
>
> Why would they NEED to hide? The Deathstar can't just go around blowing
> up Federation planets. Unlike those backwards planets in the Star Wars
> universe, each Federation planet has it's own defenses. If that thing
> even comes near Earth, it'll have at least a dozen ships fresh out of

First off, I think it's safe to assume Tarkin was a pretty smart (i.e.,
not stupid) tactician. In the event that he would attack Earth with the
Death Star, he would make sure the hyperspace coordinates were already
locked in for the course out of the solar system. He would pop in,
initiate the super laser o' death, and then hyper out immediately. Tarkin
was not stupid. He wouldn't wait around for his precious Death Star to be
even threatened by the Federation fleet.

> Spacedock blowing it to Kingdom Come. Vulcan, Bajor, and all of the other
> Federation planets have defenses of their own that could easily handle the
> Deathstar. And forget about the Klingons and Romulans! They'd be on that
> thing so fast, Grand Moff Tarkin wouldn't even get two words out of that
> famous line of his before he was exposed to the vacuum of space...and the
> Romulans wouldn't have let Vader escape the battle. They would've
> captured him and tortured him for all of the Empire's secrets (his
> mind-control wouldn't work on a race with advanced minds like Vulcans or
> Romulans).
>

Prove it. If anything, Vader would have used the Force to basically blow
away his "captors". I doubt the Romulans would have goten NEAR him, let
alone capture him.


> And one more thing. I'm not sure of this but doesn't the Deathstar have to
> come out of hyperspace outside the system and inch up to the planet like
> it did at Yavin? If so, that would give even more time for the Federation
> to get whatever ships are in the sector to the scene.

Wrong. In hyperspace travel, you have to plot your course *before* you go
into hyperspace. This way, you won't collide into a planet or a sun about
to go nova (for proof, go to ANH with Han in the Falcon with the
at-that-moment clueless Luke). Most likely, the navigator of the Death
Star saw the planet Yavin blocking the Death Star's path to Yavin 4. So it
was decided to come out of hyperspace just in front of Yavin and then
orbit it to get a clear shot at Yavin 4.

Anakin Skywalker


>
> -Picard42-
>
>
>
>


esp...@erols.com

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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James Grady Ward wrote:

>
> 'Anakin' B Chow wrote:
> >
> > On 3 Jul 1997, Picard42 wrote:
> >
> > > >IT makes it so easy that the DS can track the federation down no matter
> > > >where they went. This way can't hide.
>
> BTW, who says that the deathstar could track a federation ship
> at warp? Assuming for the moment that a federation ship
> would even care to try and hide from the thing.

>
> > >
> > > Why would they NEED to hide? The Deathstar can't just go around blowing
> > > up Federation planets. Unlike those backwards planets in the Star Wars
> > > universe, each Federation planet has it's own defenses. If that thing
> > > even comes near Earth, it'll have at least a dozen ships fresh out of
> >
> > First off, I think it's safe to assume Tarkin was a pretty smart (i.e.,
> > not stupid) tactician. In the event that he would attack Earth with the
> > Death Star, he would make sure the hyperspace coordinates were already
> > locked in for the course out of the solar system. He would pop in,
> > initiate the super laser o' death, and then hyper out immediately. Tarkin
> > was not stupid. He wouldn't wait around for his precious Death Star to be
> > even threatened by the Federation fleet.
>
> Umm, First, it is said in the SW movies that you cant just
> come out of hyperspace near dense objects so he would not
> be able to just pop out in range to blow up any planet
> immediately. And second, ST does have sensors that can
> detect FTL ships so it would be possible for them to
> know the ship is coming and even if it succeded to
> track the ship while it was leaveing. He might get one
> or two planets this way, but then he would soon be
> surrounded by the rest of the fleet and then soon be
> rubble himself.

>
> >
> > > Spacedock blowing it to Kingdom Come. Vulcan, Bajor, and all of the other
> > > Federation planets have defenses of their own that could easily handle the
> > > Deathstar. And forget about the Klingons and Romulans! They'd be on that
> > > thing so fast, Grand Moff Tarkin wouldn't even get two words out of that
> > > famous line of his before he was exposed to the vacuum of space...and the
> > > Romulans wouldn't have let Vader escape the battle. They would've
> > > captured him and tortured him for all of the Empire's secrets (his
> > > mind-control wouldn't work on a race with advanced minds like Vulcans or
> > > Romulans).
> > >
> >
> > Prove it. If anything, Vader would have used the Force to basically blow
> > away his "captors". I doubt the Romulans would have goten NEAR him, let
> > alone capture him.
>
> The force is nothing more than psyhic ability. Also in the movies
> it is clearly stated that people with well trained minds are not
> affected by the force. It has been shown in ST btw that Vulcan/Romulans
> can kill people with their minds directly( not having to choke them).
> One Vulcan against Vader probably would not work, but 20 or so
> would have him nicely contained.

What about his lightsaber? Not to mention is incredible physical
strength, and the fact that a phaser fired at him would probably be
blocked, if not by his hand, then by his lightsaber.


>
> >
> > > And one more thing. I'm not sure of this but doesn't the Deathstar have to
> > > come out of hyperspace outside the system and inch up to the planet like
> > > it did at Yavin? If so, that would give even more time for the Federation
> > > to get whatever ships are in the sector to the scene.
> >
> > Wrong. In hyperspace travel, you have to plot your course *before* you go
> > into hyperspace. This way, you won't collide into a planet or a sun about
> > to go nova (for proof, go to ANH with Han in the Falcon with the
> > at-that-moment clueless Luke). Most likely, the navigator of the Death
> > Star saw the planet Yavin blocking the Death Star's path to Yavin 4. So it
> > was decided to come out of hyperspace just in front of Yavin and then
> > orbit it to get a clear shot at Yavin 4.
>

> You mean they could not figure out how to fly around the planet?
> That is silly. The only explaination that does not involve there
> being a limit on how close the deathstar can be to a planet when
> coming out of hyperspace that makes sense is that the orbiting
> around the planet was for its fear value on the rebels. And even
> then it does not make much sense, since given 30 or so minutes
> surely the imperails would know the rebels could evacuate
> the planet and go elsewhere.

esp...@erols.com

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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_@_._ wrote:
>
> On 1 Jul 1997 22:02:06 GMT, "Christopher Patterson"

> <ma...@cet.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >PJF <fis...@mail.tcbi.com> wrote in article
> ><5p7a19$1at$1...@news2.alpha.net>...
> >> The Federation would have no problem crushing any SW fleet!
> >> How? Weapons range. SW lasers has max range of 1.35 km and torps
> >> have a range of around 6 km max. ST Phasers has a range of 300,000 km!!
> >> ST torps have a max range of 3.5 million km!!! An SW ship would be
> >> toast before it could get into weapons range.
> >>
> >
> >
> >SW ships are faster than any Fed ship. They SW fighters could get up close
> >to a Fed ship and blowit away. No matter what range SW ship could whip a
> >Fed ship's ass
> >
> Try a little experiment. Do you have the game XvT? Whatever,
> you can use any of the SW games. Let's investigate how fast the
> SW fighters fly, using the games as a model. Ready?
>
> Get in your basic Tie fighter, or use any fighter that can reach
> a speed setting of 100. Move 10 kilometers away from an object
> fixed in space, like a Nav bouy or a Station. Your sensors will
> give this data. Now set your throttle so you are flying towards
> the object at a setting of 100, and time how long it takes to fly
> to the object.
>
> My own test results indicate that each '1' on the SW fighters
> throttle setting equates to approximately 1 meter per second of
> speed. So a setting of 100 equals approximately 100 meters per
> second, a kilometer every 10 seconds, etc. So your vaunted SW
> fighters move at speeds of, get ready, 200 to about 500 MILES PER
> HOUR . If you dispute this, try it yourself.
>
> To claim that ST ships would have any difficulty in blasting away
> any of these almost sitting ducks is absurd. SW fighters move no
> faster than WWII propellor driven airplanes flying through
> Earth's thick atmosphere. Frankly, their propulsion technology
> sucks. ST could pick off the SW fighters as they crawled towards
> their targeted starships at many times the weapons range of any
> SW system, and they'd have plenty of time to do so. If any of
> this was real, of course.
>
> Naturally, SW capital ships are even slower than the fighters.
> An ST ship could maintain any distance it choose out of weapons
> range of SW ships and pound it forever with its weapons. SW
> ships are practically embedded in concrete, compared to ST ships.
>
> To deny this is to fatally impugn the "realism" and accuracy of
> the fine SW games developed by LucasArts. Can you bear to do so?
>
> I'd say goodbye now, but my tounge seems to have embedded itself
> inextricably into my cheek.

I've calculated (using other sources) that the TIE Defender can move at
about Mach 4 with all recharge settings at normal.

RL model

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Jul 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/2/97
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On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Nick wrote:

> J'ai envie du poulet ce soir! wrote in article ...
> >Ok first let's get it straight that by comparing these things is like
> >comparing apples and oranges. Now that that is out of the way let's
see
> >who is better. First of all, if you want to get technical, the Star
Wars
> >ships are shooting lasers at each other, and it has been said that the
> >Enterprise's deflector dish, without the use of shields, can hold them
> >off. But I think if you pit the Enterprise against a Star Destroyer, I
> >think the Star Destroyer would begin to win. Since the Star Destroyer
is
>
> >much bigger and has many weapon turrets, compared to the Enterprises 7
> >phaser emmiters and 2 photon tubes, it would obliterate the Enterprise
in
>
> Wrong! All Galaxy Class ships (Which the Enterprise-D is) have 14
phaser
> emmiters and 3 torpedo tubes. Not much difernece but it ticks me off
when
> people who are putting down ST screw up on technical stuff. Get the
facts
> before you post!!! (you could easily get the facts by reading the TNG
Tech
> Manual)
>
>

///Question: Why the HELL would I check it out from the library or even
spend
///a cent on such a piece of crap?

///Anakin Skywalker 'Anakin' B Chow <ana...@u.washington.edu>


because you know a runabout could kick the living crap outta your retarded
DeathStar, planetkiller, vader and what ever

StarTrek Rules!StarTrek Rules!StarTrek Rules!StarTrek Rules!StarTrek
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Rules!


McDougall

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Jul 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM7/3/97