I HATE FERENGI EPISODES!!!!!!!!
JupiterToo
Of all the Star Trek episode that have aired over the years, through all of the
series, (cartoon included) I have HATED the Ferengi episodes the most. Deep
Space Nine is my favorite of the Star Trek series, but it really sinks to new
lows when episodes are based around Quark, the Ferengi Alliance, Zek, Moogie,
Rom, Brunt, and Ferenginar(sp)
Rom, Quark and Leeta are fine "background" characters who should never be put
into the spotlight. The only Ferengi character worthy of any real development
(IMHO) is Nog, who has turned out to be an interesting character, who gives
just the right amount of comic relief. This is a character I wouldn't mind
seeing more of. It's been fun to see him grow up and mature.
JupiterToo
NutWrench
Me too,
I cringe whenever I see any preview involving either the Nagus or Moogie. A
painfully bad episode.
-- Nut
DMorse1701
> The only Ferengi character worthy of any real development
>(IMHO) is Nog, who has turned out to be an interesting character, who gives
>just the right amount of comic relief. This is a character I wouldn't mind
>seeing more of. It's been fun to see him grow up and mature.
>
>JupiterToo
I agree! I would like to see him become a main character next year. In the
credits, when DAX dies. And on a new series if they make one
H G Pataki
>Of all the Star Trek episode that have aired over the years, through all of
>the
>series, (cartoon included) I have HATED the Ferengi episodes the most. Deep
>Space Nine is my favorite of the Star Trek series, but it really sinks to new
>lows when episodes are based around Quark, the Ferengi Alliance, Zek, Moogie,
>Rom, Brunt, and Ferenginar(sp)
>
>Rom, Quark and Leeta are fine "background" characters who should never be put
>development
>(IMHO) is Nog, who has turned out to be an interesting character, who gives
>just the right amount of comic relief. This is a character I wouldn't mind
>seeing more of. It's been fun to see him grow up and mature.
>
>JupiterToo
>
>
I consider ST;TNG, VGER, and DS9 to be among the finest shows ever made for tv.
Not because of all the technobabble and the sci-fi stuff, but because they are
the best acted, best written, best produced shows out there. Ferengi episodes
give us humor which is gratefully appreciated by me at least. These short
little Jewish fellas that play the Ferengi sure are funny. I'd rather watch a
DS9 Ferengi episode than Seinfeld, Home Improvement, Ally McBeal or whatever
else is out there. DS9 is an excellent series. Humorous Ferengi episodes just
make it better. Lighten up...
"Move it, football head!"
mrb...@gte.net
I like quark I'd like to see Ds-9 end with him becoming grand nagus or buying the
station from the bajorans etc...
quark is interesting its too bad they dont write a better script for him.
JupiterToo
>I'd rather watch a
>DS9 Ferengi episode than Seinfeld, Home Improvement, Ally McBeal or whatever
>else is out there
Well there is no accounting for taste...
.> DS9 is an excellent series. Humorous Ferengi episodes just
>make it better. Lighten up...
As I stated in my original post, Deep Space Nine is my favorite of the Trek
series. I even love the humor in the show, especially scenes with Nog and
scenes with Quark and Odo. I just hate it when they insult us by "dumbing
down" entire episodes like they did in Profit And Lace. I found nothing
humorous about this idiodic episode. It was plain insulting...
JupiterToo
Tom Holt
The message <199805172301...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
from hgpa...@aol.com (H G Pataki) contains these words:
. These short
> little Jewish fellas that play the Ferengi sure are funny.
Are you anti-semitic, a troll, careless in your choice of words or
just plain dumb?
GSimp95605
Subject: Re: I HATE FERENGI EPISODES!!!!!!!!
From: Tom Holt <lemmi...@zetnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 17 May, 1998 08:46 PM EDT
Message-id: <199805180...@zetnet.co.uk>
G: Several of the actor's playing the Frengis really *are*Jewish. Armin
Shimmerman (sp?) Aron Eisenberg. And the humor really is similar to typical
"Jewish" humor.
-Gilberto
Tom Holt
The message <199805180230...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
from gsimp...@aol.com (GSimp95605) contains these words:
> -Gilberto
I probably over-reacted. I just have this sneaky suspicion that
people who talk about "short little funny Jewish guys" are the sort
who think I'd look better as a lampshade
Bob Danielson
It's hard to take a science fiction series "seriously" when they have an entire
species whose only function is comic relief - and I use the word "comic" very
advisedly.
---------------------------------------------
"Today's problems were yesterday's solutions"
Delete the 999 to email
H G Pataki
>. These short
>> little Jewish fellas that play the Ferengi sure are funny.
>
>Are you anti-semitic, a troll, careless in your choice of words or
>just plain dumb?
>
>
>
>
no. honest.
"Move it, football head!"
H G Pataki
H G Pataki wrote:>>I'd rather watch a >>DS9 Ferengi episode than Seinfeld, Home
Improvement, Ally McBeal or whatever >>else is out there>>
JupiterToo wrote:>Well there is no accounting for taste...>
Just because you don't agree with my choices for tv comedy, there's something
wrong with my taste? Not so. You just disagree with it. Why insult and not just
disagree on tastes?
H G Pataki wrote:>.> DS9 is an excellent series. Humorous Ferengi episodes just
>>make it better. Lighten up...>>
JupiterToo wrote:>As I stated in my original post, Deep Space Nine is my
favorite of the Trek
>series. I even love the humor in the show, especially scenes with Nog and
>scenes with Quark and Odo. I just hate it when they insult us by "dumbing
>down" entire episodes like they did in Profit And Lace. I found nothing
>humorous about this idiodic episode. It was plain insulting...
>
>JupiterToo
I am of the opinion that you think of yourself sitting on some type of
gallactic throne deciding for everybody what is funny, intelligent, artistic,
etc......I might be wrong.....after all, it's just an idea....not a fact of
life.....see the difference?
"Move it, football head!"
JupiterToo
>I am of the opinion that you think of yourself sitting on some type of
>gallactic throne deciding for everybody what is funny, intelligent, artistic,
>etc......I might be wrong.....after all, it's just an idea....not a fact of
>life.....see the difference?
You will BOW down before me when you approach my Galactic Throne, minion.
I'm glad you FINALLY realized my position. Now show me the respect I deserve.
JupiterToo
August747
>It's hard to take a science fiction series "seriously" when they have an
>entire
>species whose only function is comic relief - and I use the word "comic" very
>advisedly.
people wonder how we would be percieved if we were able to travel the
galexy.........my guess is people would see us much like those little Ferengi.
There's a "serious" point to it all behind the humor. Or, maybe you just need
to hire a stick remover.....
JupiterToo
>people wonder how we would be percieved if we were able to travel the
>galexy.........my guess is people would see us much like those little
>Ferengi.
>There's a "serious" point to it all behind the humor. Or, maybe you just need
>to hire a stick remover.....
The finest doctors Starfleet has to offerhas seen to theremoval of my "stick",
thank you very much...
Now you should consider the operation.... I can see it would be beneficial to
you...
JupiterToo
Graham Brack
dmors...@aol.com (DMorse1701) wrote:
>> The only Ferengi character worthy of any real development
>>(IMHO) is Nog, who has turned out to be an interesting character, who gives
>>just the right amount of comic relief. This is a character I wouldn't mind
>>seeing more of. It's been fun to see him grow up and mature.
>>
>>JupiterToo
>
>I agree! I would like to see him become a main character next year. In the
>credits, when DAX dies. And on a new series if they make one
Yes, I agree. Nog has always been my favourite character and he
deserves a better rank (perhaps Lt. Junior Grade?). All my favourite
episodes have featured Nog (who can forget 'Little Green Men'), well
except Our Man Bashir!
Andrew Brack.
TC
Kind of ironic, considering the Ferengi were supposed to be Federation's
main adversary (like the Klingons in TOS) when they were originally
introduced in TNG.
tc
In article <35603f10...@news.mindspring.com>,
savoy...@mindspring.com (Bob Danielson) wrote:
>
> It's hard to take a science fiction series "seriously" when they have an
> entire
> species whose only function is comic relief - and I use the word "comic"
> very
> advisedly.
recook77
DMorse1701 wrote in message
<199805171611...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>> The only Ferengi character worthy of any real development
>>(IMHO) is Nog, who has turned out to be an interesting character, who
gives
>>just the right amount of comic relief. This is a character I wouldn't mind
>>seeing more of. It's been fun to see him grow up and mature.
>>
>>JupiterToo
>
>I agree! I would like to see him become a main character next year. In the
>credits, when DAX dies. And on a new series if they make one
I'm quite fond of Nog myself, but I'm not sure I'd want to see him as a
regular character. For some reason, he seems more effective to me in a
recurring role. . .
DB
>Kind of ironic, considering the Ferengi were supposed to be Federation's
>main adversary (like the Klingons in TOS) when they were originally
>introduced in TNG.
>
>tc
Good thing that idea was done away with quickly.
James Becktel
Well, Starfleet (and the viewers of Trek shows) realized how goofy they
looked. They couldn't be a threatening adversary.
I have noticed how they went from life-threatening to mildly annoying to
downright funny sometimes.
I do have trouble watching Ferengi episodes. Those poor actors can't talk
right with that crap in their mouth.
DB wrote:
--
the sherlock
sher...@priest.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/1937 - Dune: Eye of the Storm
Lisa: "Beware the Ides of March. "
Homer: "No. "
Falc2199
I agree totally, Ferengi episodes suck. The only good Ferengi episode was
"Little Green Men" and that was not really one anyway.
Falc
Sky Watcher
Rick Berman has wrecked the Ferengi and converted them from a slightly
threatening presence in the Alpha Quadrant to Federation comic relief. Nog
and Rom could (and should) be done away with, and keep Dax! She's far more
interesting.
On the other hand, if Dax' departure requires a replacement main character,
my vote goes to Garek. He is certainly the most intriguing character on the
Station.
BNSussman
I actually like the Ferengi episodes. Obviously you can't take them seriously
but they make a good counter to all the heavy stuff that goes on in "DS9." A
little humor is good for such a "dark" show. Hell, even "Millennium" has an
occasional humor episode, and no show is darker than that one.
BRUCE SUSSMAN
bnsu...@aol.com
ShaunNavis
>Rick Berman has wrecked the Ferengi and converted them from a slightly
>threatening presence in the Alpha Quadrant to Federation comic relief. Nog
>and Rom could (and should) be done away with,
No way! First off, don't blame Berman for everything. Yes he, along with
Beimler and Behr, should apologize to fandom everywhere for the wretched
"Profit and Lace," but that's all. The Ferengi were never even *remotely*
threatening, and that became obvious in their very first appearance, TNG's "The
Last Outpost." If anything, blame Roddenberry for creating Ferengi in the
first place, and deciding (early on) that he didn't want to use the Klingons
and Romulans as adversaries. Once the Ferengi made their laughingly awful
debut, some damage control had to be done. The episodes about Damon Bok's
revenge against Picard were pretty good, but name one other time the Ferengi
weren't more comical than dangerous on TNG. That's because no one took the
Ferengi seriously. They managed to make the Enterprise crew look really bad by
capturing the ship once, but even then they were outwitted by a bunch of kids!
One of those kids was Picard, but still!
As for Nog and Rom, you're talkign about two very interesting characters that
have been wonderful additions to the show. Both characters started out as
comic relief, but both have gone on to play very important roles. The
friendship between Jake and Nog, against the wishes of their fathers,
symbolized the breaking of the prevailing tensions when the Federation took
over DS9. Bajorans were leery of the Feds, and no one really got a long in the
beginning. Children are innocents, having not learned the politics and
prejudices that often divide us. Jake and Nog cut through all that and proved
that very different people in a tense situation can still work together and
make friends. Later, Nog's impassioned plea to Captain Sisko to sponsor his
application to Starfleet Academy was one of the best moments in the series.
Since then he's become an important member of the crew.
Rom also found his niche, finally breaking the chains of his brother's
oppression, and has also made important contributions to the crew. He's the
one who had the idea of mining the wormhole and keeping the Dominion out. He's
as much a hero of the war as anyone. I also loved it when he stood up to
Quark and told him he wouldn't let him interfere with Nog's desire to join
Starfleet. The only strike against Rom is Leeta. I know she's nice to look at
(Thought not as nice as Nana or Terry, IMHO), but she's easily the worst actor
ever to appear in Star Trek. She adds nothing to the show, and I still cringe
when I think of her high-pitched whining before Rom was scheduled to be killed.
She's just terrible.
>and keep Dax! She's far more
>interesting.
I love Dax too, but it's a moot point. She's to die in the season finale, and
Terry's signed on to a new sitcom on CBS next season. I'm sure Paramount was
screwing her over, but would staying for one last season have killed her?
Instead, she's messed up the show, and she's taking a gamble on a sitcom that
probably won't last more than one season. Had she stayed, she'd have that
security *and* the opportunity for future Trek films (Being married to Worf
made her an obvious choice).
>if Dax' departure requires a replacement main character,
>my vote goes to Garek. He is certainly the most intriguing character on the
>Station.
Garak is indeed a great character! I hope we see more from him in this last
season and learn a few more of his secrets. IMHO, however, the most
interesting andcomplex character on the show is Benjamin Sisko. Starfleet
captain in the most turbulent sector of the Alpha Quadrant, Emissary to the
Prophets and Bajoran religious figure, and single father.
Shaun
Phyllis Herrin
>As for Nog and Rom, you're talkign about two very interesting characters
that
>have been wonderful additions to the show. Both characters started out as
>comic relief, but both have gone on to play very important roles. The
>friendship between Jake and Nog, against the wishes of their fathers,
>symbolized the breaking of the prevailing tensions when the Federation took
>over DS9. Bajorans were leery of the Feds, and no one really got a long in
the
>beginning. Children are innocents, having not learned the politics and
>prejudices that often divide us. Jake and Nog cut through all that and
proved
>that very different people in a tense situation can still work together and
>make friends. Later, Nog's impassioned plea to Captain Sisko to sponsor
his
>application to Starfleet Academy was one of the best moments in the series.
>Since then he's become an important member of the crew.
Agreed 100%. I think the Nog character has gone from slightly annoying to a
valuable crew member, and I personally think that he is going to get
Jadzia's place in Ops when she croaks (he is the only regular with even half
of the qualifications).
>Rom also found his niche, finally breaking the chains of his brother's
>oppression, and has also made important contributions to the crew. He's
the
>one who had the idea of mining the wormhole and keeping the Dominion out.
He's
>as much a hero of the war as anyone. I also loved it when he stood up to
>Quark and told him he wouldn't let him interfere with Nog's desire to join
>Starfleet.
Agreed here as well. When he finally played the father and not the slave
(standing up to Quark), I was immensily impressed. A very nicely created
and used character, IMO.
>The only strike against Rom is Leeta. I know she's nice to look at
>(Thought not as nice as Nana or Terry, IMHO), but she's easily the worst
actor
>ever to appear in Star Trek. She adds nothing to the show, and I still
cringe
>when I think of her high-pitched whining before Rom was scheduled to be
killed.
> She's just terrible.
Here I have to disagree with you. She has played a fairly valuable role in
DS9, ranging from her participation in the union run by Rom, to providing
emotional sentiment when she had to leave the station immediatly after her
wedding when the Dominion attacked, and when Rom was scheduled to be
executed. I personally think that her character is nicely done, and should
remain. Now if you want terrible, just look over to TNG at Deanna Troi.
THAT'S some bad acting.
>
> >and keep Dax! She's far more
>>interesting.
>
>I love Dax too, but it's a moot point. She's to die in the season finale,
and
>Terry's signed on to a new sitcom on CBS next season. I'm sure Paramount
was
>screwing her over, but would staying for one last season have killed her?
>Instead, she's messed up the show, and she's taking a gamble on a sitcom
that
>probably won't last more than one season. Had she stayed, she'd have that
>security *and* the opportunity for future Trek films (Being married to Worf
>made her an obvious choice).
The symbiont Dax is gone, and I for one, am sad to see another female
character in Trek be killed off. However, I see the necessity of it. After
all, you can't have Worf in ST9 and have Jadzia, too. She would stick out
like a sore thumb, and then the rest of the DS9 cast would want in, too.
Not having her in the movie, with her character still alive, would create a
blank hole that would be difficult to fill, story-wise. Killing her
character is the only way for the movie to have a resemblance of the old TNG
cast back at work. I just really hope that Casidy Yates makes a
semi-regular comeback to help off-set the "good ol' boys' club."
>Garak is indeed a great character! I hope we see more from him in this
last
>season and learn a few more of his secrets. IMHO, however, the most
>interesting andcomplex character on the show is Benjamin Sisko. Starfleet
>captain in the most turbulent sector of the Alpha Quadrant, Emissary to the
>Prophets and Bajoran religious figure, and single father.
The reason I continued watching DS9 after the first 5 minutes - Avery
Brooks. IMHO, he is the greatest actor Trek has ever laid hands on. The
character is also the most complex that I ever recall seeing, and the
emotions of the character are very well played out. I can't wait to see
more!
ShaunNavis
>She has played a fairly valuable role in
>DS9, ranging from her participation in the union run by Rom,
I'll give you that one.
> to providing
>emotional sentiment when she had to leave the station immediatly after her
>wedding when the Dominion attacked, and when Rom was scheduled to be
>executed.
I don't know. I thought there was hope for her in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume,"
where she was pretty good, but that quickly dissapated.
She adds very little to the show, she has no particular talents or skills that
I can see, and TPTB seem to work her in more for the sex factor than anything
else. She's *always* showing her cleavage, and I can't help but notice a lot
of SF magazines, and even the Sci-fi Channel giving her a hell of a lot of
publicity. To that, I ask "Why?" She's not a member of the main cast or even
an imporatant crew member. DS9, the show, itself gets such little publicity
despite being (usually) the best written and acted Trek ever. Why doesn't the
show get more publicity for its own merits, being every bit as good a show as
"X-FIles" or "NYPD Blue"? The same thing goes on with Jeri Ryan on VOY, except
VOY doesn't have as much going for it as DS9 does.
Getting back to the point of her acting, that scene before Rom was to be
executed is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. All Leeta could do
was stand there and emit obnoxiously high squeals and weep/ That's acting? I
cringe every time I see that scene. I want her to be strong and suipportive.
Would Kira or Dax weep and squeal like that? I think not.
>Now if you want terrible, just look over to TNG at Deanna Troi.
>THAT'S some bad acting.
Early TNG, I'd agree with you. The minute they put her in an actual Starfleet
uniform though, she seemed to grow a brain along with it. She'll never win an
award, but Marina was pretty good the last couple of seasons. Could Chase have
pulled off "Face of the Enemy"? Not a chance. Marina got tough in that one,
and took charge of the situation masquerading as a Romulan. I thought the one
where Troi took the exam to become a full-fledged Commander was nicely done as
well. She had anguish and finally asserted herself as an officer. Chase
Masterson would never have been able to play those roles. Her bubble-headed
voice trying to say those lines would have made me LOL, but she doens't have
the range either. She can pout, and that's just about it. On a show that's
usually dark and heavy, she sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.
>The symbiont Dax is gone, and I for one, am sad to see another female
>character in Trek be killed off. However, I see the necessity of it. After
>all, you can't have Worf in ST9 and have Jadzia, too. She would stick out
>like a sore thumb, and then the rest of the DS9 cast would want in, too.
Actually, there was talk over a year ago about working DS9 people into the
movies, starting with ST IX. It wasn't just idle net rumors, it was in a
published AP report I read in my local paper. Why is killing Dax a necessity?
TPTB surely didn't have this in mind when they married Dax to Worf. It was in
the TV Guide article about the wedding that Terry hadn't signed back at on, but
at the time she was confident she'd be back. Just a earlier this year Rick
Berman said he expected the entire cast to return for the final season.
They'll have to come up with yet another excuse to bring Worf back for the
next movie anyway, and so it's perfectly reasonable to see Worf and Dax being
together. Whether or no they would have done this or not is unclear, but you'd
have to figure at some point they would have worked her in. No one's eally
saying whether or not DS9 will ever go to the big screen (I hope it happens
someday), but one way suggested is to work a few characters into future films,
maybe doing a rotating series of films with different characters from all three
modern series. It seems more likely than launching all of the series into
their own film franchises. Too expensive, and probably not enough audience.
>I really hope that Casidy Yates makes a
>semi-regular comeback to help off-set the "good ol' boys' club."
Agreed! I like her a lot, and her two appearances over the past two seasons
have not been enough. She's got great chemistry with Sisko, and I'd like to
see more of them.
>The reason I continued watching DS9 after the first 5 minutes - Avery
>Brooks. IMHO, he is the greatest actor Trek has ever laid hands on.
I'm so glad to hear someone else say that! I don't know if I'd call him the
*best* actor Trek has ever had (There's Patrick Stewart to consider, not to
mention Rene and Colm Meaney), but I think he's right up there with them. He's
brought a lot of passion to the role of Sisko, taking him a long way from the
surly, angry guy we met in "Emissary" to a man who's found his path, and has
persevered over greater challenges than any captain we've ever seen. I don't
think any of the other captains could have played "In the Pale Moonlight" as
effectively as he did. "Far Beyond the Stars" was a masterpiece! Considering
he directed it *and* was in every scene, he deserves an Emmy or two.
Some rag on Avery for "overacting," but I don't think that's entirely true. He
does have an unfortunate tendency to overenunciate his speech when he gets
riled up, but that's the Shakespearean actor in him, and just how much he gets
into the part. It's certainly not like Shatner's taking every line and trying
to turn it into Herculean tragedy. Avery can be very subtle in the role too,
something I wouldn't normally equate with Shatner (Though he too had his
moments, such as "City on the Edge of Forever").
>The
>character is also the most complex that I ever recall seeing, and the
>emotions of the character are very well played out. I can't wait to see
>more!
I couldn't agree with you more. There are so many shades to Sisko's character,
far more complex and complicated than any of the other captains. Certainly
more human and flawed, but not in a bad way. We've seen the cracks in Sisko's
armor, and it's made him much more believable than the others. Picard had that
potential, but TNG never did as much character work as DS9 has done. He
occasionally let his guard down, but not like Sisko. His tale is truly central
to DS9. The fate of Bajor, the fate of the Alpha Quadrant, and his own path to
redemption and happiness, all are tied together. When you consider how few
dramatic TV shows have had an African-American lead, it makes what they've done
with DS9 all the more remarkable. How sad it's never gotten
the publicity it deserves.
Shaun
Charles A Robison
She is there for the hooter factor. Plain and simple.
Charlie
Phyllis Herrin
>> to providing
>>emotional sentiment when she had to leave the station immediatly after her
>>wedding when the Dominion attacked, and when Rom was scheduled to be
>>executed.
>
>I don't know. I thought there was hope for her in "Dr. Bashir, I Presume,"
>where she was pretty good, but that quickly dissapated.
>She adds very little to the show, she has no particular talents or skills
that
>I can see, and TPTB seem to work her in more for the sex factor than
anything
>else. She's *always* showing her cleavage, and I can't help but notice a
lot
>of SF magazines, and even the Sci-fi Channel giving her a hell of a lot of
>publicity. To that, I ask "Why?" She's not a member of the main cast or
even
>an imporatant crew member. DS9, the show, itself gets such little
publicity
snip>
>Getting back to the point of her acting, that scene before Rom was to be
>executed is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. All Leeta could
do
>was stand there and emit obnoxiously high squeals and weep/ That's acting?
I
>cringe every time I see that scene. I want her to be strong and
suipportive.
>Would Kira or Dax weep and squeal like that? I think not.
No offense meant, but you seem to be confusing character writing with
acting. Chase is a quite capable actress, but as with all Trek except
'Voyager,' the vast majority of female characters are written so poorly that
no matter how great of an actress you have, there just isn't anything they
can do with the role. (Then there is the exact opposite, when you have a
strong character but a weak actress - A.K.A. Tasha Yar).
> >Now if you want terrible, just look over to TNG at Deanna Troi.
>>THAT'S some bad acting.
>
>Early TNG, I'd agree with you. The minute they put her in an actual
Starfleet
>uniform though, she seemed to grow a brain along with it. She'll never win
an
>award, but Marina was pretty good the last couple of seasons. Could Chase
have
>pulled off "Face of the Enemy"? Not a chance. Marina got tough in that
one,
>and took charge of the situation masquerading as a Romulan. I thought the
one
>where Troi took the exam to become a full-fledged Commander was nicely done
as
>well. She had anguish and finally asserted herself as an officer. Chase
>Masterson would never have been able to play those roles. Her
bubble-headed
>voice trying to say those lines would have made me LOL, but she doens't
have
>the range either. She can pout, and that's just about it. On a show
that's
>usually dark and heavy, she sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb.
See above about Chase. But with Marina, I honestly haven't seen anything
besides "Great love, and happiness, Captain." - with the worst fake tear
going down her face I've ever seen. ("Encounter at Farpoint"). Any
day-time soap has better actresses than that. "Face of the Enemy" was just
painful for me. She just doesn't have enough steel in her voice to pull
things like that off. She kept sounding like a mouse trying to masqurade as
a bull dog - squeeking when things didn't work and just standing there
dumbfounded. Now I know that was the writing, so I don't totally blame that
episode on her lack of talent, but there are plenty of other instances where
she just can't act. I saw a repeat episode recently, it was the one where
the Ent-D gets stuck in that plane of 2-D creatures and Troi looses her
telepathic ability. That could have been one of TNG's best episodes of the
season. But it wasn't. Marina just didn't/doesn't know how to play someone
who wasn't all wimpy and soppy. The first time I ever saw her come anywhere
close to daytime soap level of acting was in Star Trek: First Contact. And
that is just because Braga and co. decided to blow the rest of the cast off
and make them comic relief, focusing on Picard's revenge. When they
actually try to write for her, and come up with something good, it just
flops. She is simply a terrible actress, IMHO.
> >The symbiont Dax is gone, and I for one, am sad to see another female
>>character in Trek be killed off. However, I see the necessity of it.
After
>>all, you can't have Worf in ST9 and have Jadzia, too. She would stick out
>>like a sore thumb, and then the rest of the DS9 cast would want in, too.
>
>Actually, there was talk over a year ago about working DS9 people into the
>movies, starting with ST IX. It wasn't just idle net rumors, it was in a
>published AP report I read in my local paper. Why is killing Dax a
necessity?
>TPTB surely didn't have this in mind when they married Dax to Worf. It was
in
>the TV Guide article about the wedding that Terry hadn't signed back at on,
but
>at the time she was confident she'd be back. Just a earlier this year Rick
>Berman said he expected the entire cast to return for the final season.
'Necessary' was a bit too strong. It is just that I really don't see her in
a TNG movie. Mainly because she isn't TNG. TNG is TNG, not DS9. I wouldn't
really mind a cross-over, but I would want the whole cast to be there, not
just Dax. And since it was quite obvious that the main DS9 cast wasn't
going to be in ST9, then I see it as inevitable that Dax wouldn't be there,
either. Which also seem inevitable, to me, that her character has to be
killed off. It was just a leap of logic for me - before I even went to the
convention where I first heard her character was going to be killed, I
already knew she had to die before ST9 came out. Of course I could have
easily been wrong, it just turned out that I wasn't.
>>The reason I continued watching DS9 after the first 5 minutes - Avery
>>Brooks. IMHO, he is the greatest actor Trek has ever laid hands on.
>
>I'm so glad to hear someone else say that! I don't know if I'd call him
the
>*best* actor Trek has ever had (There's Patrick Stewart to consider, not to
>mention Rene and Colm Meaney), but I think he's right up there with them.
He's
>brought a lot of passion to the role of Sisko, taking him a long way from
the
>surly, angry guy we met in "Emissary" to a man who's found his path, and
has
>persevered over greater challenges than any captain we've ever seen. I
don't
>think any of the other captains could have played "In the Pale Moonlight"
as
>effectively as he did. "Far Beyond the Stars" was a masterpiece!
Considering
>he directed it *and* was in every scene, he deserves an Emmy or two.
Well, I still think he is the best, with Robert Picardo is a very close
second and Colm in third. Honestly, I don't think Patrick Stewart is that
great of an actor, but he is still good.
>Some rag on Avery for "overacting," but I don't think that's entirely true.
He
>does have an unfortunate tendency to overenunciate his speech when he gets
>riled up, but that's the Shakespearean actor in him, and just how much he
gets
>into the part. It's certainly not like Shatner's taking every line and
trying
>to turn it into Herculean tragedy. Avery can be very subtle in the role
too,
>something I wouldn't normally equate with Shatner (Though he too had his
>moments, such as "City on the Edge of Forever").
I personally think that William Shatner is quite a good actor, and out of
all the Trek characters and actor/actresses ever, he is definately in my top
five. But Avery Brooks is certainly number one on the list.
recook77
Phyllis Herrin wrote in message ...
(snip)
>
>No offense meant, but you seem to be confusing character writing with
>acting. Chase is a quite capable actress, but as with all Trek except
>'Voyager,' the vast majority of female characters are written so poorly
that
>no matter how great of an actress you have, there just isn't anything they
>can do with the role. (Then there is the exact opposite, when you have a
>strong character but a weak actress - A.K.A. Tasha Yar).
>
I don't know; Voyager doesn't know what to do with *any* of its characters,
male or female. DS9 is better at writing its characters in general; my
complaint is that the female recurring characters don't get enough to do. I
happen to prefer Keiko O'Brien or Kasidy Yates or Kai Winn to Leeta. Leeta,
IMO, serves no real purpose on the station or the show. Keiko, Kasidy, and
Kai Winn at least have real skills and/or power. I find Keiko to be
underused and I think Kasidy Yates could be an interesting character.
Heck, I'd love to see Lt. Neely (from Rocks and Shoals) or Dorian Collins
(the cadet from Valiant) again.
Antony Alonso
Hello recook77, on 25-May-98 12:32:30, you said,
>I don't know; Voyager doesn't know what to do with *any* of its characters,
>male or female. DS9 is better at writing its characters in general; my
That's it in a nutshell, well-spoken.
>complaint is that the female recurring characters don't get enough to do. I
>happen to prefer Keiko O'Brien or Kasidy Yates or Kai Winn to Leeta. Leeta,
Keiko O'Brien and Kasidy Yates haven't been explored to the fullest sadly.
>IMO, serves no real purpose on the station or the show. Keiko, Kasidy, and
>Kai Winn at least have real skills and/or power. I find Keiko to be
>underused and I think Kasidy Yates could be an interesting character.
The only legitimate claim could be to show that marriages like the O'Briens
do exist in the 24th century (Leeta and Rom). That's about it; and as such
has been more fully developed in the O'Briens than them.
Night...@Clarksburg.com
recook77
Antony Alonso wrote in message <928.449T26...@Clarksburg.com>...
>Hello recook77, on 25-May-98 12:32:30, you said,
>
>>I don't know; Voyager doesn't know what to do with *any* of its
characters,
>>male or female. DS9 is better at writing its characters in general; my
>
>That's it in a nutshell, well-spoken.
Frankly, I prefer the women of DS9 to Seven of Nine or Janeway any day.
>
>>IMO, serves no real purpose on the station or the show. Keiko, Kasidy,
and
>>Kai Winn at least have real skills and/or power. I find Keiko to be
>>underused and I think Kasidy Yates could be an interesting character.
>
>The only legitimate claim could be to show that marriages like the O'Briens
>do exist in the 24th century (Leeta and Rom). That's about it; and as such
>has been more fully developed in the O'Briens than them.
Also, Keiko has actual skills that could be an asset (in science and
archaeology). Since she's been possessed by the pagh wraiths, perhaps she
could provide some insight here as well.
Antony Alonso
Hello recook77, on 25-May-98 23:26:10, you said,
>Frankly, I prefer the women of DS9 to Seven of Nine or Janeway any day.
Well we're losing Terry Farrel (Jadzia Dax) and will only be left with
Nana Visitor (Major Kira Nereys). And the occassional guest star of
Louise Fletcher in all her wooden acting glory. I do think Janeway
should be jettisoned out of the nearest airlock though :)
>Also, Keiko has actual skills that could be an asset (in science and
>archaeology). Since she's been possessed by the pagh wraiths, perhaps she
>could provide some insight here as well.
Consider Leta as the 24th century equivalent of Vanna White :)
Night...@Clarksburg.com
recook77
--
Antony Alonso wrote in message <670.450T2...@Clarksburg.com>...
>Hello recook77, on 25-May-98 23:26:10, you said,
>
>>Frankly, I prefer the women of DS9 to Seven of Nine or Janeway any day.
>
>Well we're losing Terry Farrel (Jadzia Dax) and will only be left with
>Nana Visitor (Major Kira Nereys). And the occassional guest star of
>Louise Fletcher in all her wooden acting glory.
What about Cicely Adams (Ishka) and Penny Johnson (Kasidy Yates)? I would
like to see them again. Kasidy seems to have potential, and not just as
Sisko's love interest.
Antony Alonso
Hello recook77, on 26-May-98 21:21:32, you said,
>What about Cicely Adams (Ishka) and Penny Johnson (Kasidy Yates)? I would
>like to see them again. Kasidy seems to have potential, and not just as
>Sisko's love interest.
Those are classified as MINOR characters, and only appear once or twice a
season. Hardly worth labeling "the women of DS9."
Night...@Clarksburg.com
recook77
Antony Alonso wrote in message <378.451T16...@Clarksburg.com>...
Where are they classified as such? And why not enlarge their roles?
>
>
>
>Night...@Clarksburg.com
>
Phyllis Herrin
>Where are they classified as [minor characters]?
Primarily because they aren't listed in the opening credits.
>And why not enlarge their roles?
Well, at least we'll get to see Casidy Yates in the season finale.
I'd love to see more character developement for the other
female characters, but apparently this honor only goes to
opening-credit-holding-members (i.e. Alexander Siddig,
Armin Shimmerman (sp?), etc.).
Antony Alonso
Hello recook77, on 27-May-98 21:52:43, you said,
>>Those are classified as MINOR characters, and only appear once or twice a
>>season. Hardly worth labeling "the women of DS9."
>Where are they classified as such? And why not enlarge their roles?
They're classified as this by their NON-starring role status in the credits,
that's where :)
They're one-shot deals from a time to time basis; of these characters,
realistically speaking the only one worth expansion would be the Penny
Johnson aka Cassidy Yates role.
Night...@Clarksburg.com
recook77
Antony Alonso wrote in message <547.452T21...@Clarksburg.com>...
You have a point. AFAIK, the only reason you haven't seen a lot of Kasidy
in seasons 5 and 6 is because the producers couldn't work out a schedule
with Penny Johnson.
But I think Sisko and Kasidy make a very attractive, realistic couple.
>
>
>
>Night...@Clarksburg.com
>
recook77
--
Phyllis Herrin wrote in message
<#i1RVgei...@upnetnews02.moswest.msn.net>...
>>Where are they classified as [minor characters]?
>
>Primarily because they aren't listed in the opening credits.
>
>>And why not enlarge their roles?
>
>
>Well, at least we'll get to see Casidy Yates in the season finale.
>I'd love to see more character developement for the other
>female characters, but apparently this honor only goes to
>opening-credit-holding-members (i.e. Alexander Siddig,
>Armin Shimmerman (sp?), etc.).
How about Aron Eisenberg and Max Grodenchik? Their roles have grown. I
think Keiko's been underused, and that's too bad.
My prediction is that they'll bring in recurring characters and guest stars
a la Commander Shelby and Lt. Neely.
>
>
Antony Alonso
Hello recook77, on 28-May-98 20:54:53, you said,
>You have a point. AFAIK, the only reason you haven't seen a lot of Kasidy
>in seasons 5 and 6 is because the producers couldn't work out a schedule
>with Penny Johnson.
I wonder what she's been busy with in between eps? I rather like her...
>But I think Sisko and Kasidy make a very attractive, realistic couple.
Agreed. Sisko is a changed man from the day his wife was taken from him
during the Wolf 359 incident. The man has emotional scars, although as
time has progressed they've become significantly lessened. He's not the
man he was however, and "In the Pale Moonlight" reflects this admirably.
He's a man with baggage, just like Cassidy Yates from her illegal Maqui
supplier days. That's what makes them a realistic couple more than
anything else...
Night...@Clarksburg.com
edwint...@gmail.com
mongi...@gmail.com
Your Name
The Next Generation, DEpp Space Nine, and Voyager that are abysmally
bad, plus the awful "signing" episodes in Voyager, and the idiotic
religious mumbo-jumbo nonsense in Deep Space Nine!
But even those are WAY, WAY, WAY better than any of the attrocious
garbage that came along later: all of Enterprise and JarJar Abrams'
moronic reboot movies.