Borg Breasts: What they mean to the collective (wasRe: - VOYAGER's "Scorpion, Part II" -)
Chris Blaise
Plain and Simple Cronan (*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*) wrote:
: Barry Margolin <bar...@bbnplanet.com> wrote
: > >I find it unusual that a race that does not eat, let alone nurse its
: > >offspring, would have found it needful for her to grow breasts.
: >
: > She has the body of a human female, so this was automatic.
: Let's say there are 4,000,000,000,000 female Borg drones [...]
With the mention of female breasts and figures like the above in
a newsgroup such as this, am I the only one who thought the conversation
was going to intersect with _Revenge of the Nerds_? I can't resist! I
gotta finish it...
Gilbert: So?
Lewis: So, that's 8,000,000,000,000 boobs!
Gilbert/Lewis: <nerd laugh>!
And as a special intersection bonus, James Cromwell as Lewis's
dad:
Dad: You college guys are all alike. Always thinking with [about?] your
penises....I wish I could go with you.
Gilbert/Lewis: <nerd laugh>!
TTYL
Chris
Victor Marshall
We are Borg, we assimilate all.
What happens if one of Borg is separated from the collective? How can we
assure that she will still have weaponry to assimilate?
No problem... here's two 150mm artilery shells. Strap 'em to her chest.
No No you induhvidual! POINT THEM OUTWARD! There. Now 7of9 can continue
to assimilate.
Is it our plan that, if she is separated from the collective, she is to
use her artillery shells as a last resort against resistance?
Uh... nobody will *want* to resist.
VM
John & Linda VanSickle
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote:
>
> Barry Margolin <bar...@bbnplanet.com> wrote
> > >I find it unusual that a race that does not eat, let alone nurse its
> > >offspring, would have found it needful for her to grow breasts.
> >
> > She has the body of a human female, so this was automatic.
>
> Let's say there are 4,000,000,000,000 female Borg drones (a conservative
> figure considering he number of solar systems and ships).. The excess
> material required to form the interesting metal bustier would be greater
> than the mass of the Enterprise D given in the tech manual.
> This coupled with the fact that simply cutting them off would reduce the
> number calories need for each borg makes them unnessecary. Not that their
> not nice to look at but....
She was assimilated as a child (IIRC), and therefore the Borg simply needed
to suppress the hormones that caused them to develop.
> Male testes, OTOH....
> They are more than likely removed simply because the purpose of the
> scrotum is to keep the testes cool. Borg outfits just don't have the room.
> If, for some unknown reason, Borg human drone testicles are intact they are
> effectively useless due to their prolonged postion. Unless of course the
> suits have a way of transfering the heat. This would seem to be explain the
> higher temperature and humidty on a Borg ship. This could all be remedied
> if the Borg allows the breasts and testicles to hang free effectively
> securing a whole new audience for ST in particular and UPN in general....
It's likely that the testes are absorbed (after assimilation) or simply
don't develop (if the drone in question is born into the collective).
Since there hasn't been any pregnant Borg sighted, it's likely that baby
Borg are grown in special chambers for this purpose.
--
Dantalion will ride again the course of evils standing straight
Hot metal will abound the land as the form regards our blazing hand
Krow
Perhaps the breasts stay because of the Borg Queen...she had them too!
Krow
Chris Blaise wrote in article <5upqmm$l...@swen.emba.uvm.edu>...
>
>Plain and Simple Cronan (*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*) wrote:
>
>
>: Barry Margolin <bar...@bbnplanet.com> wrote
>: > >I find it unusual that a race that does not eat, let alone nurse its
>: > >offspring, would have found it needful for her to grow breasts.
>: >
>: > She has the body of a human female, so this was automatic.
>
Matt Maurano
People, People. Borgs have breasts for ratings. In the 24th century, a
Q named "Neilson" has deemed such things as these "breasts" as king to
recieve more ratings. Simple as that.
David Hines
In article <34108A...@svl.ems.spamCookie.lmco.com>,
Victor Marshall <VMar...@svl.ems.spamCookie.lmco.com> wrote:
>
>We are Borg, we assimilate all.
>
>What happens if one of Borg is separated from the collective? How can we
>assure that she will still have weaponry to assimilate?
>
>No problem... here's two 150mm artilery shells. Strap 'em to her chest.
>No No you induhvidual! POINT THEM OUTWARD! There. Now 7of9 can continue
>to assimilate.
OH, MY GHOD, IT'S "APHRODITE A !!!!"
(3 point ref.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
| David Hines d-h...@uchicago.edu |
| http://student-www.uchicago.edu/users/dzhines |
====================================================================
David E. Sluss
John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com>
JLV>Since there hasn't been any pregnant Borg sighted, it's likely that
JLV>baby Borg are grown in special chambers for this purpose.
No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
"reproduce" by assimilating other species. There's no need for them to
"grow" their own children. And now you say to yourself, "Self, what about
the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is true that
human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's true that the
chump Riker reported that the Borg are "born human, and have implants put
in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_ on his part, not
supported by the evidence he viewed. It is just as likely, if not more
likely, that those babies were members of another species attacked by the
Borg and were in the process of being assimilated when they were
discovered.
--
\\ David E. Sluss --- A.K.A. Slugenstein \ SLUGS trivia: \
\\_________email: slu...@pitt.edu_____________\____"Follow the trail"______\
// "I'm impatient with stupidity. My people / Commercial email will be /
// have learned to live without it" - Klaatu / returned to sender in bulk /
Magus
David E. Sluss wrote:
> No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
> "reproduce" by assimilating other species. There's no need for them to
> "grow" their own children. And now you say to yourself, "Self, what about
> the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is true that
> human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's true that the
> chump Riker reported that the Borg are "born human, and have implants put
> in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_ on his part, not
> supported by the evidence he viewed. It is just as likely, if not more
> likely, that those babies were members of another species attacked by the
> Borg and were in the process of being assimilated when they were
> discovered.
episode, Riker wasn't just giving false presumptions. The writers were
laying out the Borg identity in that episode and the baby-scene was
meant to establish the Borg reproductive cycle. Perhaps the writers
changed their minds later when they added the assimilation business, but
the original impression is that the Borg do reproduce.
Sorcere...@hotmail.com: "It's a letter...shall we burn it?"
David E. Sluss
David E. Sluss <slu...@pitt.edu> wrote:
DES>No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
DES>"reproduce" by assimilating other species. There's no need for them to
DES>"grow" their own children. And now you say to yourself, "Self, what
DES>about the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is
DES>true that human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's
DES>true that the chump Riker reported that the Borg are "born human, and
DES>have implants put in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_
DES>on his part, not supported by the evidence he viewed. It is just as
DES>likely, if not more likely, that those babies were members of another
DES>species attacked by the Borg and were in the process of being
DES>assimilated when they were discovered.
Magus <Sorcere...@hotmail.com> wrote:
M>I don't think so. Keep in mind that, in the overall context of the
M>episode, Riker wasn't just giving false presumptions. The writers were
M>laying out the Borg identity in that episode and the baby-scene was
M>meant to establish the Borg reproductive cycle. Perhaps the writers
M>changed their minds later when they added the assimilation business, but
M>the original impression is that the Borg do reproduce.
Yes, that may be the case. Let's remember that while the Borg talked about
"assimilating" the Enterprise in "Q Who?", we never actually found out
what "assimilation" meant (i.e. turning people into Borg) until BOBW.
It seems likely to me that the exact details of assimilation may not have
been decided upon by the writers until much later. The "baby scene" leaves
open several possibilities, including Riker's conclusion. But, given what
we later learned about the Borg, I think my theory makes the most sense;
of course the Borg concept has been so screwed up of late that what makes
sense is not necessarily what is so.
John & Linda VanSickle
Krow wrote:
>
> Perhaps the breasts stay because of the Borg Queen...she had them too!
And a right stupid idea she was...
Magus
David E. Sluss wrote:
> The "baby scene" leaves open several possibilities, including Riker's
> conclusion. But, given what we later learned about the Borg, I think
> my theory makes the most sense; of course the Borg concept has been so
> screwed up of late that what makes sense is not necessarily what is so.
writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
Sorcere...@hotmail.com: "We are the Bork. Resistance is fukile."
David Johnston
David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com>
> JLV>Since there hasn't been any pregnant Borg sighted, it's likely that
> JLV>baby Borg are grown in special chambers for this purpose.
>
> No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
> "reproduce" by assimilating other species. There's no need for them to
Since they inhabit entire worlds, that's quite unlikely.
> "grow" their own children. And now you say to yourself, "Self, what about
> the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is true that
> human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's true that the
> chump Riker reported that the Borg are "born human, and have implants put
> in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_ on his part, not
> supported by the evidence he viewed. It is just as likely, if not more
> likely, that those babies were members of another species attacked by the
> Borg and were in the process of being assimilated when they were
> discovered.
Er, why? They would offer nothing to the Borg Collective. Of course
the whole concept of the Borg has been significantly changed since
those days.
Keith Morrison
David E. Sluss wrote:
> Yes, that may be the case. Let's remember that while the Borg talked about
> "assimilating" the Enterprise in "Q Who?", we never actually found out
> what "assimilation" meant (i.e. turning people into Borg) until BOBW.
> It seems likely to me that the exact details of assimilation may not have
> been decided upon by the writers until much later. The "baby scene" leaves
> open several possibilities, including Riker's conclusion. But, given what
> we later learned about the Borg, I think my theory makes the most sense;
> of course the Borg concept has been so screwed up of late that what makes
> sense is not necessarily what is so.
But there is a severe flaw in the theory and that is this--what happens
if you deplete a section of space of sentient lifeforms and then all
of a sudden need replacements? Sure, aside from the Shad...er...
Species 8972 the Borg haven't faced that big a threat but there must
have been a point where they weren't that powerful, someone could
possibly take them (or at least hold them off) and they needed some
kind of reproduction capability aside from assimilation.
Or, and here's an off-the-wall theory, what if they snatch populations
to set up farms for new bodies when required? Some out of the way
little planet where the natives worship the great metal gods who
swoop down now and then to collect some sacrifices.
--
Keith Morrison
lone...@nbnet.nb.ca
Scott Peterson
Krow wrote:
>
> Perhaps the breasts stay because of the Borg Queen...she had them too!
>
No. Actually her costume had them. In the scene where she was joined
with the costume she was petty much a head, neck and backbone.
Scott Peterson
David Johnston
Magus wrote:
>
> David E. Sluss wrote:
> > The "baby scene" leaves open several possibilities, including Riker's
> > conclusion. But, given what we later learned about the Borg, I think
> > my theory makes the most sense; of course the Borg concept has been so
> > screwed up of late that what makes sense is not necessarily what is so.
> That's the truth! The Borg may never be the same, unless Star Trek
> writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
And that Star Trek Nine never happened. And that Hugh never happened...
MIC
David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com>
> JLV>Since there hasn't been any pregnant Borg sighted, it's likely that
> JLV>baby Borg are grown in special chambers for this purpose.
>
> No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
> "reproduce" by assimilating other species. There's no need for them to
> the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is true that
> human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's true that the
> chump Riker reported that the Borg are "born human, and have implants put
> in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_ on his part, not
> supported by the evidence he viewed. It is just as likely, if not more
> likely, that those babies were members of another species attacked by the
> Borg and were in the process of being assimilated when they were
> discovered.
> \\ David E. Sluss --- A.K.A. Slugenstein \ SLUGS trivia: \
> \\_________email: slu...@pitt.edu_____________\____"Follow the trail"______\
> // "I'm impatient with stupidity. My people / Commercial email will be /
> // have learned to live without it" - Klaatu / returned to sender in bulk /
7 of 9 enters the Voyager series waring a sexy but tasteful female Borg
outfit and the next thing I know you assholes are trying to figure out
where
baby Borg come from. Can't you just enjoy the series? I find some of
these
post entertaining.....but stupid.
John & Linda VanSickle
Keith Morrison wrote:
>
> David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> > "assimilating" the Enterprise in "Q Who?", we never actually found out
> > what "assimilation" meant (i.e. turning people into Borg) until BOBW.
> > It seems likely to me that the exact details of assimilation may not have
> > open several possibilities, including Riker's conclusion. But, given what
> > we later learned about the Borg, I think my theory makes the most sense;
> > of course the Borg concept has been so screwed up of late that what makes
> > sense is not necessarily what is so.
>
> if you deplete a section of space of sentient lifeforms and then all
> of a sudden need replacements? Sure, aside from the Shad...er...
> Species 8972 the Borg haven't faced that big a threat but there must
> have been a point where they weren't that powerful, someone could
> possibly take them (or at least hold them off) and they needed some
> kind of reproduction capability aside from assimilation.
What was the population of Earth after WWIII in ST:FC? Was it more or
less than 8 billion?
David E. Sluss
Magus wrote:
M>The Borg may never be the same, unless Star Trek
M>writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
DJ>And that Star Trek Nine never happened.
Funny... I was under the impression that it hadn't yet :)
DJ>And that Hugh never happened...
Much as I've always like "I, Borg" as an episode, it really was the
beginning of the end of the Borg as a real menace. At this point they seem
hardly more threatening than the Romulans or the Cardassians.
David E. Sluss
David E. Sluss wrote:
[speculation about where baby Borg come from]
MIC <dr...@flash.net> wrote:
MIC>7 of 9 enters the Voyager series waring a sexy but tasteful female
MIC>Borg outfit and the next thing I know you assholes are trying to
MIC>figure out where baby Borg come from. Can't you just enjoy the
MIC>series? I find some of these post entertaining.....but stupid.
Another satisfied customer.
Plain and Simple Cronan
MIC <dr...@flash.net> wrote
> 7 of 9 enters the Voyager series waring a sexy but tasteful female Borg
> outfit and the next thing I know you assholes are trying to figure out
> where
> baby Borg come from. Can't you just enjoy the series?
Idiocy, being your creed, may come second nature to you but some, and we
are rare, leave our brains in think mode while watching.
I find some of
> these
> post entertaining.....but stupid.
I find you merely stupid. Be proud. You have skipped step one and
progressed onto the next level.
glacia
As long as the body functions I don't think they would care what
unnecessary parts develop on it. They would think no more of another
body than we would a fingernail and no more about breasts than we would
those ridges on our nails. They're not worth the time it would take to
remove or supress them.
ej-lol
"David E. Sluss" <slu...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>
>
>No, it's likely that there's no such thing as a baby Borg. The Borg
>"reproduce" by assimilating other species.
The borg assimilate that taking parts from bio and non-bio species and
yes they do have baby borgs. Most baby borgs start out being
biological .
I am no doctor, nor do I play one on TV (or anywhere else).
Magus
David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> Magus wrote:
> > The Borg may never be the same, unless Star Trek
> > writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> > And that Star Trek Nine never happened.
> Funny... I was under the impression that it hadn't yet :)
I'm rather strange in that regard. I loved the movie and thought
it was the best Star Trek film yet. However, I do understand the
complaints against it. The Borg Queen was silly (and unneccessary) and
the Data/Queenie thing should've been left out. But so many scenes were
not only in keeping with the Borg spirit but also genuinely eerie (the
ensign looks up at Picard as his face is ripped through by the Borg
nanites, Picard hears Data's thoughts reaching out of the Borg song)
that it easily overcomes some of the shoddier elements concerning the
time-travelling queen.
> DJ>And that Hugh never happened...
> Much as I've always like "I, Borg" as an episode, it really was the
> beginning of the end of the Borg as a real menace. At this point they seem
> hardly more threatening than the Romulans or the Cardassians.
Same here. I did like the episode, but it made the Borg into
sympathetic characters. Once the Borg became something that the viewers
could relate to, they began to lose their effectiveness. Scorpion
completed the process by having the Borg show emotions, negotiate, and
act treacherous--all things that make the Borg less alien and more like
mean humans in rubber suits. Just like Star Trek's other villains.
Sorcere...@hotmail.com: "You got whacked 'cuz you're weak."
WRobert525
>From: John & Linda VanSickle <vans...@erols.com>
>Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 15:11:49 -0700
>Message-id: <3411D5...@erols.com>
>
>
>Krow wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the breasts stay because of the Borg Queen...she had them too!
>
>
>Dantalion will ride again the course of evils standing straight
>Hot metal will abound the land as the form regards our blazing hand
>
>http://www.erols.com/vansickl
>
>
*Do you mean to say that breasts are _also_ stupid?! <g>
I hope not!
-Sean
WRobert525
>From: "David E. Sluss" <slu...@pitt.edu>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 1997 11:15:04 -0400
>Message-id: <Pine.GSO.3.96L.97090...@unixs1.cis.pitt.edu>
>JLV>baby Borg are grown in special chambers for this purpose.
>
>"grow" their own children. And now you say to yourself, "Self, what about
>the Borg babies that the away team saw in "Q Who?" Yes, it is true that
>human(oid) babies with Borg implants were sighted, and it's true that the
>chump Riker
*Obviously, you consider yourself more a sleuth than
Sluss. Riker reported what anyone would have. At the time,
nothing was known about the Borg "assimilating" cultures;
Guinan knew of the Borg, but didn't offer that information in
Q Who. Don't be too hard on him. He did, after all, BEAT
the Borg. (No, I won't argue that. It's too obvious.)
reported that the Borg are "born human, and have implants put
>in shortly after birth," but that is an _assumption_ on his part, not
>supported by the evidence he viewed.
*Actually, his assumption was based on the facts at hand. I agree
with the idea you present in the follow clippings, but it's just as
likely that the Borg Queen produces some Borg drones herself.
The "appetite" she displayed to manipulate data, and the queen-drone bee
analogy could support that if only slightly.
It is just as likely, if not more
>likely, that those babies were members of another species attacked by the
>Borg and were in the process of being assimilated when they were
>discovered.
*That's an explanation that fits the most facts at hand, and I like
it. But you could do it without defecating on Riker :-)
He wasn't _that_ bad...
-Sean
WRobert525
>From: David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net>
>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 14:40:08 -0600
>Message-id: <341311...@telusplanet.net>
>
>
>Magus wrote:
>>
>> David E. Sluss wrote:
>> > The "baby scene" leaves open several possibilities, including Riker's
>> > conclusion. But, given what we later learned about the Borg, I think
>> > my theory makes the most sense; of course the Borg concept has been so
>> > screwed up of late that what makes sense is not necessarily what is so.
>> writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
>
>
>
>
>
>
*I know you didn't write "maybe we should just pretend
Scorpion never happened", but I'll comment on all of these
ideas. The movie was part VIII, actually :-) "That Hugh
thing", well, it wasn't good. I respected the gesture of
"I, Borg", but it didn't quite hold together in the end. (The Lore-Borg
alliance was ridiculous.) But Scorpion wasn't
so bad; Scorp. pt. II wasn't terrible, either. How do
you guys and gals think VOY canabalized them? I thought
it was fairly true to Borg.
-Sean
WRobert525
>What was the population of Earth after WWIII in ST:FC? Was it more or
>less than 8 billion?
>--
*Hmm. Point being? You have to remember the Borg maintain thousands of
worlds. Not one or two, several *thousand*.
There are then, at the least, many trillions of Borg. In all likelihood,
I'd say that no. warrants something other than strict assimilation.
-Sean
Blake Richardson
>>> And that Star Trek Nine never happened.
>>Funny... I was under the impression that it hadn't yet :)
>I'm rather strange in that regard. I loved the movie and thought
>it was the best Star Trek film yet.
I think the point was that ST: First Contact was Star Trek 8, not Star
Trek 9. Number 9 hasn't happened yet.
Franklin Hummel
In article <341351...@hotmail.com>,
Magus <Sorcere...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Same here. I did like the episode, but it made the Borg into
>sympathetic characters. Once the Borg became something that the viewers
>could relate to, they began to lose their effectiveness. Scorpion
>completed the process by having the Borg show emotions, negotiate, and
>act treacherous--all things that make the Borg less alien and more like
>mean humans in rubber suits. Just like Star Trek's other villains.
Indeed. Part of the problem with STAR TREK's writing is, in my
opinion, they often to not understand their own series. The Borg in
particular were a creative introduction to the Trek Universe which has
been used in recent years to help the series when it started to flounder
(just most recently on VOYAGER and with the 2nd TNG movie).
But they are used in a way which shows the writers don't really
understand the Borg's original concept. Certainly the worse example of
this was the Borg Queen. One can see behind it the typical cliche writers
thinking that Picard had to have an -individual- enemy to go against, to
make the battle a personal one, rather than him having to fight the Borg
as a collective.
-- Franklin Hummel [ hum...@world.std.com ]
--
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Seven of Thirteen
In article <5v1930$i...@nntp.netside.com>, "Jimmy" <jamc...@netside.com> wrote:
> I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg all
>lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females used for
>breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting this would
>ever happen tho.
>
>It would be typical of the borg however.
I don't know, it would be a waste of resources to have pregnant females
simply lying in a factory. Growing babies out of petri dishes would be more of
a possibility.
7 / 13
_______________________________
email: sev...@compusmart.ab.ca
"You are erratic, conflicted, disorganised. Every decision is
debated, every action is questioned, every individual entitled
to his own small opinion. You lack harmony, cohesion...greatness.
It will be your undoing." - 7 of 9
Dave Garber
On 5 Sep 1997 06:16:32 GMT, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
<*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*> wrote:
> Let's say there are 4,000,000,000,000 female Borg drones (a conservative
>figure considering he number of solar systems and ships).. The excess
>material required to form the interesting metal bustier would be greater
>than the mass of the Enterprise D given in the tech manual.
> This coupled with the fact that simply cutting them off would reduce the
>number calories need for each borg makes them unnessecary. Not that their
>not nice to look at but.... Male testes, OTOH....
Uhh... I'm getting scared here....
> They are more than likely removed simply because the purpose of the
>scrotum is to keep the testes cool. Borg outfits just don't have the room.
>If, for some unknown reason, Borg human drone testicles are intact they are
>effectively useless due to their prolonged postion. Unless of course the
>suits have a way of transfering the heat. This would seem to be explain the
>higher temperature and humidty on a Borg ship. This could all be remedied
>if the Borg allows the breasts and testicles to hang free effectively
>securing a whole new audience for ST in particular and UPN in general....
Ever hear of 'over analysis' or 'over thinking'? Man, you're really
going a little too far with this don't you think?? I'm into Trek as
much as anyone but, when you start to postulate theories about Borg
breasts being 'cut off' or 'gulp' male scrotums getting... I can't say
it.. But, I really hope you see my point.... You may want to take some
time off and get away from Trek for a while.. You know.. To get in
touch with reality and all....
Plain and Simple Cronan
Dave Garber <dga...@ccia.com> wrote ....
>
> Uhh... I'm getting scared here....
Logic does tend to frighten....
> Ever hear of 'over analysis' or 'over thinking'? Man, you're really
> going a little too far with this don't you think?? I'm into Trek as
> much as anyone but, when you start to postulate theories about Borg
> breasts being 'cut off' or 'gulp' male scrotums getting... I can't say
> it.. But, I really hope you see my point.... You may want to take some
> time off and get away from Trek for a while.. You know.. To get in
> touch with reality and all....
Humor. Look into it. I realize it wasn't labelled as such with "knock,
knock" as the opening phrase so the subtle brilliance of it may have flown
over your head at the relative speed of sound but do not accuse me of being
out of touch with whatever your pathetic perception of the all is.
Good Day Sir.
-- Plain and Simple Cronan, X O of the USS Megadittos <*>
Sanity and comprehension are all too often contradictory conditions
Arthur Levesque
Jimmy (jamc...@netside.com) speculated:
J>I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg
J>all lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females
J>used for breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting
J>this would ever happen tho. It would be typical of the borg however.
More typical of the Bene Tleilaxu and their so-called axlotl tanks;
and they only did it that way because of their peculiar religious beliefs
and the ban on all sorts of technology following the Butlerian Jihad.
But you're right; even if such a process were logical for the Borg,
political correctness would guarantee that we'd never see it.
Seven of Thirteen (sev...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote:
7/13>I don't know, it would be a waste of resources to have pregnant
7/13>females simply lying in a factory. Growing babies out of petri
7/13>dishes would be more of a possibility.
I picture young Borg being created on the assembly lines described in
Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World"...
--
/\ Arthur M Levesque, 2A4W <*> baks...@nicom.com =/\= Fnord!? (oO)
\B\ack King of the Potato People (-O-) Jake & Elwood: original MIB /||\
\S\lash "You don't need pants for the victory dance" - I.M. Weasel theme
\/ Urban Spaceman For a good time <http://www.nicom.com/~bakslash>
Jimmy
I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg all
lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females used for
breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting this would
ever happen tho.
It would be typical of the borg however.
Keith Morrison wrote in article <34122644...@nbnet.nb.ca>...
>
>David E. Sluss wrote:
>
>> Yes, that may be the case. Let's remember that while the Borg talked
about
>> "assimilating" the Enterprise in "Q Who?", we never actually found out
>> what "assimilation" meant (i.e. turning people into Borg) until BOBW.
>> It seems likely to me that the exact details of assimilation may not have
>> been decided upon by the writers until much later. The "baby scene"
leaves
>> open several possibilities, including Riker's conclusion. But, given what
>> we later learned about the Borg, I think my theory makes the most sense;
>> of course the Borg concept has been so screwed up of late that what makes
>> sense is not necessarily what is so.
>
>But there is a severe flaw in the theory and that is this--what happens
>if you deplete a section of space of sentient lifeforms and then all
>of a sudden need replacements? Sure, aside from the Shad...er...
>Species 8972 the Borg haven't faced that big a threat but there must
>have been a point where they weren't that powerful, someone could
>possibly take them (or at least hold them off) and they needed some
>kind of reproduction capability aside from assimilation.
>
Keith M. Kurzman
Plain and Simple Cronan (*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*) wrote:
> This coupled with the fact that simply cutting them off would reduce the
> number calories need for each borg makes them unnessecary. Not that their
> not nice to look at but.... Male testes, OTOH....
I would just like to add to this discussion the comment that when we first
saw the Borg, we *did* see several infant Borg, so he do reproduce
somehow... of course, it probably isn't through standard genital sex...
--Morris
S'Talex Yhea Rhian
Perhaps (now this is purely a scientific thought, not intended to be
distasteful to anyone) the breasts are used for some type of fluid
storage, or something else close to that concept.
Anyone who read Shatner's "The Return" can see the similarities between
that and the way the Borg used internal organs to purify water in the
book.
Of course, I am just glad that they left them :]
Merrick Baldelli
>
>Krow wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps the breasts stay because of the Borg Queen...she had them too!
>
>And a right stupid idea she was...
ROTFLMAO!!! I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought her
role totally out of place!!!
("\''/").___..--''"`-._
`9_ 9 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
*******************(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'***********************
* Merrick Baldelli _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' .' mbal...@mindspring.com *
******************(il).-''**((i).'**((!.-'*******************************
http://www.mindspring.com/~mbaldelli
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Dave Garber
On 8 Sep 1997 22:04:11 GMT, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
<*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*> wrote:
>
>Logic does tend to frighten....
Really?
>Humor. Look into it.
My sense of humor is intact. It simply doesn't agree with your sense
of 'humor' on this one Cronan..
> I realize it wasn't labelled as such with "knock,
>knock" as the opening phrase so the subtle brilliance of it may have flown
Brilliance is a relative term here Cronan.. One persons 'brilliance'
is another persons dull.
>over your head at the relative speed of sound but do not accuse me of being
>out of touch with whatever your pathetic perception of the all is.
Going on the subject of the post I originally responded to, I'd say
my perception of reality is quite intact. Yours, on the other hand...
Well, we won't go there. Of course, I could have made it 'clear' to
you that my original reply was meant tongue in cheek as well... Guess
you missed the 'brilliance' of it huh? ;^)
David E. Sluss
David E. Sluss <slu...@pitt.edu> wrote [minor typo corrected]:
DES>Much as I've always liked "I, Borg" as an episode, it really was the
DES>beginning of the end of the Borg as a real menace. At this point they
DES>seem hardly more threatening than the Romulans or the Cardassians.
David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
DJ>Problem is, the proto-Borg are boring. Dangerous and boring, but
DJ>still boring. You could use them in a good story, but they'd play
DJ>the role of any natural catastrophe.
If by "proto-Borg," you mean the Borg of "Q Who" and "Best of Both
Worlds," I say "Bore me!" :) I do see what you're saying, though. It's
difficult to portray the collective as originally conceived; even the
acclaimed "BOBW" didn't, but relied on the mouthpiece Locutus instead. In
fact, "Q Who" is the only Borg episode to date which portrayed the Borg
collective without any individuality at all. And "Q Who" worked precisely
because of the absense of Rubber-Forehead-Alien-Species-Who-Act-Just-Like-
Humans shenanigans. It was a concept which was very different to the ST
realm, but it's a concept which has been weakened with each successive
Borg appearance. The posturing, threatening, sultry, arrogant behavior of
Seven of Nine (and earlier the Borg Queen) represents the end of the Borg
as an emotionless hive mind and, as I said, makes them hardly different
from, say, the Saurians. The old Borg concept needn't be boring; the truth
is, it was never really given a chance, and modern Trek's trend of
pacifying and humanizing its alien races claimed another victim. Now
_that's_ assimilation.
Theflinx
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@clark.net> wrote in article
<5v4m34$8...@clarknet.clark.net>...
> Thus spoke Jimmy (jamc...@netside.com):
> > I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg
all
> > lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females used
for
> > breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting this
would
> > ever happen tho.
>
> Ever read Frank Herbert's HELSTROM'S HIVE?
> The hive had "breeding stumps".
> They were female human torsos with no heads or arms, hooked into
> life support machines. Their soul purpose was to make babies.
>
> Ick.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON!
What ever you do don't read Helstrom's hive it'd not worth the pain.
David Johnston
David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> Magus wrote:
> M>writers just pretend "Scorpion" never happened...
>
> David Johnston <rgo...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> DJ>And that Star Trek Nine never happened.
>
> Funny... I was under the impression that it hadn't yet :)
Eight, then.
>
> DJ>And that Hugh never happened...
>
> Much as I've always like "I, Borg" as an episode, it really was the
> beginning of the end of the Borg as a real menace. At this point they seem
> hardly more threatening than the Romulans or the Cardassians.
Problem is, the proto-Borg are boring. Dangerous and boring, but
still boring. You could use them in a good story, but they'd play
David Johnston
Blake Richardson wrote:
>
> >>> And that Star Trek Nine never happened.
>
> >>Funny... I was under the impression that it hadn't yet :)
>
> >it was the best Star Trek film yet.
>
> I think the point was that ST: First Contact was Star Trek 8, not Star
> Trek 9. Number 9 hasn't happened yet.
So I said 9 when I meant 8. The point was, every new appearance
of the Borg has changed them radically from their previous conceptions.
Nyrath the nearly wise
Mhollihan
What I'm afraid of is that now Seven of Nine will "explain" the Borg to us
and further ruin them by elaborating on all sorts of things. Explaining
the "whys" and giving voice for the writers to invent all sorts of rituals,
rites, and other mystique-destroying crap (like is being done with the
Klingons).
Mike Hollihan
No fancy sig.
>Subject: Old Borg vs. New Borg (was Re:
>Borg Breasts: What they mean to the collective (wasRe: - VOYAGER's "Scorpion
>From: "David E. Sluss" <slu...@pitt.edu>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 19:57:03 -0400
>Message-id: <Pine.GSO.3.96L.97090...@unixs4.cis.pitt.edu>
>
>David E. Sluss <slu...@pitt.edu> wrote [minor typo corrected]:
>DES>Much as I've always liked "I, Borg" as an episode, it really was the
>DES>beginning of the end of the Borg as a real menace. At this point they
>DES>seem hardly more threatening than the Romulans or the Cardassians.
Anders Wahlbom
On 8 Sep 1997, Dave Garber wrote:
> On 5 Sep 1997 06:16:32 GMT, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
> <*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*> wrote:
>
>
> > Let's say there are 4,000,000,000,000 female Borg drones (a conservative
> >figure considering he number of solar systems and ships).. The excess
> >material required to form the interesting metal bustier would be greater
> >than the mass of the Enterprise D given in the tech manual.
Irrelevant. Considering the resources at their disposal, it is unlikely
that the Borg have a metal shortage; they could probably use ten times the
mass of the Enterprise D just for fun, if they were familiar with the
concept of fun...
> > This coupled with the fact that simply cutting them off would reduce the
> >number calories need for each borg makes them unnessecary. Not that their
> >not nice to look at but.... Male testes, OTOH....
>
> Uhh... I'm getting scared here....
>
> > They are more than likely removed simply because the purpose of the
> >scrotum is to keep the testes cool. Borg outfits just don't have the room.
> >If, for some unknown reason, Borg human drone testicles are intact they are
> >effectively useless due to their prolonged postion. Unless of course the
> >suits have a way of transfering the heat. This would seem to be explain the
> >higher temperature and humidty on a Borg ship. This could all be remedied
> >if the Borg allows the breasts and testicles to hang free effectively
> >securing a whole new audience for ST in particular and UPN in general....
>
>
>
> Ever hear of 'over analysis' or 'over thinking'? Man, you're really
> going a little too far with this don't you think?? I'm into Trek as
> much as anyone but, when you start to postulate theories about Borg
> breasts being 'cut off' or 'gulp' male scrotums getting... I can't say
> it.. But, I really hope you see my point.... You may want to take some
> time off and get away from Trek for a while.. You know.. To get in
> touch with reality and all....
Reality is overrated.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anders Wahlbom (awah...@update.uu.se)
http://www.update.uu.se/~awahlbom/
---------------------------------
NOW PLAYING: Rupert Hine: "Waving Not Drowning"
Anders Wahlbom
On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Jimmy wrote:
> I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg all
> lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females used for
> breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting this would
> ever happen tho.
>
> It would be typical of the borg however.
What about cloning? Would that be beyond the Borg's abilities?
> >David E. Sluss wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, that may be the case. Let's remember that while the Borg talked
> about
> >> "assimilating" the Enterprise in "Q Who?", we never actually found out
> >> what "assimilation" meant (i.e. turning people into Borg) until BOBW.
> >> It seems likely to me that the exact details of assimilation may not have
> >> been decided upon by the writers until much later. The "baby scene"
> leaves
> >> open several possibilities, including Riker's conclusion. But, given what
> >> we later learned about the Borg, I think my theory makes the most sense;
> >> of course the Borg concept has been so screwed up of late that what makes
> >> sense is not necessarily what is so.
> >
> >But there is a severe flaw in the theory and that is this--what happens
> >if you deplete a section of space of sentient lifeforms and then all
> >of a sudden need replacements? Sure, aside from the Shad...er...
> >Species 8972 the Borg haven't faced that big a threat but there must
> >have been a point where they weren't that powerful, someone could
> >possibly take them (or at least hold them off) and they needed some
> >kind of reproduction capability aside from assimilation.
> >
> >Or, and here's an off-the-wall theory, what if they snatch populations
> >to set up farms for new bodies when required? Some out of the way
> >little planet where the natives worship the great metal gods who
> >swoop down now and then to collect some sacrifices.
That's a really interesting theory, but not off-the-wall enough to be
plausible...
Allen Kim
David E. Sluss wrote:
>
> The posturing, threatening, sultry, arrogant behavior of
> Seven of Nine (and earlier the Borg Queen) represents the end of the
> Borg as an emotionless hive mind and, as I said, makes them hardly
> different from, say, the Saurians. The old Borg concept needn't be
> boring; the truth is, it was never really given a chance, and modern
> Trek's trend of pacifying and humanizing its alien races claimed
> another victim. Now _that's_ assimilation.
Are you sure about the claim that the old Borg concept never was really
given a chance? I recall that in the last issue of ST:Communicator, in
the article about Star Trek's villians, the Borg were the most difficult
adversaries to write for *precisely* because the old Borg concept leaves
little room for any character development.
--
Allen Kim
alle...@scic.intel.com
Jason A. A.
On 10 Sep 1997 06:06:21 GMT, mhol...@aol.com (Mhollihan) wrote:
>What I'm afraid of is that now Seven of Nine will "explain" the Borg to us
>and further ruin them by elaborating on all sorts of things. Explaining
>the "whys" and giving voice for the writers to invent all sorts of rituals,
Rituals? With the Borg? You must be joking. They are glorified
computers. The character development into an individual is most
likely what it will be like.
>rites, and other mystique-destroying crap (like is being done with the
>Klingons).
Hm, the "mystique" of the TOS Klingons, a bunch of single minded 2
dimisional "bad guys"?
Its called character development, making the Klingons seem real, not
having them be flat "bad guys" or "good guys".
=====================
Jason Andrew Atkinson
---------------------
It must often be so,
...., that when things are
in danger, some one has to
give them up, lose them,
so that others may keep them.
///The Return of The King,
by JRR Tolkien
================
To E-mail me, please remove
ANTISPAM
Plain and Simple Cronan
Anders Wahlbom <awah...@Zeke.Update.UU.SE> wrote
> Irrelevant. Considering the resources at their disposal, it is unlikely
> that the Borg have a metal shortage; they could probably use ten times
the
> mass of the Enterprise D just for fun, if they were familiar with the
> concept of fun...
Obviously they still must mine resources from planets(or they wouldn't have
them). Even using transporters to beam out selected metals the process of
creating that amount of specific alloys would be incredibly energy
intensive so in the long run it is better to be more efficent..
Franklin Hummel
>On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Jimmy wrote:
>
>>I can see a borg factory cube on some planet with 100's of female Borg all
>>lying on their backs, bellies in the air, pregnant. These females used for
>>breeding purposes only. I doubt however that a scene dipicting this would
>>ever happen tho.
>>
Herbert, a sort-off sequel to the movie THE HELSTROM CHRONICLE? It dealt
with a form of hive-based humans. In it, the hive's reproduction was
carried out in part by the stumps of male and female humans, from chest to
knees, which were kept alive through medical technology. All this
discussion of how the Borg reproduce reminds me of that book.
Dave
Excuse me, but are you a Star Trek screen writer?
Lets remember that ther is a life, a mind, flesh and blood under the cold
mechanicals of a Borg drone. Scorpion I & II
show us that the Borg are not that different from us- they are a little
demented (ok, a lot demented) but, if you were the
Borg collective- not a drone but the WHOLE thing- wouldn't you also have
the will to live, even if that meant negotiating
etc?
Beezel
On 8 Sep 1997 22:04:11 GMT, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
<*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*> wrote:
>
>
>Dave Garber <dga...@ccia.com> wrote ....
>>
>> Uhh... I'm getting scared here....
>
>Logic does tend to frighten....
Yes.. arn't we dead pan... come off it Cronen.
>> Ever hear of 'over analysis' or 'over thinking'? Man, you're really
>> going a little too far with this don't you think?? I'm into Trek as
>> much as anyone but, when you start to postulate theories about Borg
>> breasts being 'cut off' or 'gulp' male scrotums getting... I can't say
>> it.. But, I really hope you see my point.... You may want to take some
>> time off and get away from Trek for a while.. You know.. To get in
>> touch with reality and all....
>
>Humor. Look into it. I realize it wasn't labelled as such with "knock,
>knock" as the opening phrase so the subtle brilliance of it may have flown
>over your head at the relative speed of sound but do not accuse me of being
>out of touch with whatever your pathetic perception of the all is.
Well I knew you wer trying to be funey Cronen, but i wasn't lafing.
You ARE out of touch if you thingk that we beleav that you posted
sutch a big leter about *nothing* ON TOP of all the other ST vs SW
quibeling that you scwonder your time on, for ANY other reason than to
capitolise on one_more_ opertunety to remined us that you exist.
Don't be frightend...we won't forget you. Just as long as we can
keap cringing at what exstroredenery lengths you will go to to insault
your way into peopels harts.
---------To reply remove >*<Asterix>frome Bee...@helix.net*<----------------------------
Sorry for the inconvenence of reading through my posts!
However...
I will not respond to >un-frendly< comments regarding my
spelling.Dislexia does NOT equal stupidity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David E. Sluss
David E. Sluss <slu...@pitt.edu> wrote:
DES>The old Borg concept needn't be
DES>boring; the truth is, it was never really given a chance, and modern
DES>Trek's trend of pacifying and humanizing its alien races claimed
DES>another victim. Now _that's_ assimilation.
Allen Kim <alle...@scic.intel.com> wrote:
AK>Are you sure about the claim that the old Borg concept never was really
AK>given a chance?
Yes. Beginning with their second appearance, in BOBW, the Borg have been
"represented" by "individual Borg," Locutus, Hugh, Lore's Chumps, Borg
Queen, and now 7/9. The Borg have not been portrayed solely as a
collective mind since "Q Who."
AK>I recall that in the last issue of ST:Communicator, in
AK>the article about Star Trek's villians, the Borg were the most
AK>difficult adversaries to write for *precisely* because the old Borg
AK>concept leaves little room for any character development.
I acknowledge that it would be difficult; however, I see nothing wrong
with portraying them _without_ character development, as something of a
faceless menace. That's what made them so different and, yes, frightening
in "Q Who." Too much character development is precisely what has watered
down so many Trek villain races, from the Klingons to the Jem'Hadar.
Another writer in this thread suggested that the "old Borg" could only be
portrayed as a "natural disaster," to which I say: "What's wrong with
that?" It makes the Borg something other than people with funny makeup and
ships, and, with skilled writing, it could be portrayed in an interesting
fashion.
Plain and Simple Cronan
Beezel <Bee...@helix.net*> wrote in article
<34175203...@news.cyberion.com>...
> On 8 Sep 1997 22:04:11 GMT, "Plain and Simple Cronan"
> <*REMOVE*cronan@*TO*dittosrush.com*REPLY*> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Dave Garber <dga...@ccia.com> wrote ....
> >>
> >> Uhh... I'm getting scared here....
> >
> >Logic does tend to frighten....
>
> Yes.. arn't we dead pan... come off it Cronen.
No I am Cronan. DeadPan was the villian on Freakazoid who spoke in a
hilarious monotone
> Well I knew you wer trying to be funey Cronen, but i wasn't lafing.
Yhat make it your problem.
> You ARE out of touch if you thingk that we beleav that you posted
> sutch a big leter about *nothing* ON TOP of all the other ST vs SW
> quibeling that you scwonder your time on, for ANY other reason than to
> capitolise on one_more_ opertunety to remined us that you exist.
Your lack of wit aside; I am curious who this "we" is? DId you take a
survey? Did you look at the majority of the responses? Most took it for
what it was.
> Don't be frightend...we won't forget you. Just as long as we can
> keap cringing at what exstroredenery lengths you will go to to insault
> your way into peopels harts.
As soon as that is translated I will be more than happy to respond.
Jason Fritz
Allen Kim wrote:
> Are you sure about the claim that the old Borg concept never was really
> given a chance? I recall that in the last issue of ST:Communicator, in
> the article about Star Trek's villians, the Borg were the most difficult
> adversaries to write for *precisely* because the old Borg concept leaves
> little room for any character development.
>
> --
> Allen Kim
> alle...@scic.intel.com
I think the "difficult to write for" bit is nothing more than the
writers making excuses. Look at VENDETTA. While it's not canon, it's a
damn sight better than any other recent Borg drivel. They were actually
frightening there without being "humanized". Now, if Peter David, who
writes for Pocket Books as well as balancing several comic titles with
his novels, can write a story that doesn't humanize the Borg and still
keeps them frightening, then you can't tell me that "it's too hard" for
writers who are paid to write nothing BUT Trek and are payed pretty darn
well for a motion picture script to boot. It IS possible to write the
Borg well, and VENDETTA is the proof. I don't want any more excuses
from the writers.
--
Jason Fritz
Thunderstrike
Hate-Monger II
The Riddler
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our
lives. But I'd rather believe that time is a companion that goes
with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment,
because they'll never come again. What we leave behind is not as
important as how we've lived. After all, Number One, we're only
mortal."
-Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Star Trek:
Generations