DS9 lovers, ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR THIS???
DN
Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
have ever heard done on ST???
Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
of ST.
This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
DS9.
So because I do not want this I have decided to let Berman and co. know
this.
Maybe if others will write letters as well Berman will see the light and
note that he has taken the wrong direction.
You must act now, as Nana is getting more pregnant by the minute.
OK, good luck to us
SAVE DS9 FROM SOAP OPERA DOOM
Vered
ORDOVER
that ever did a fetus transfer!
All the other ways to deal with Visitor's pregnancy are more soap-opera-y
-- unwatned pregnancy, single motherhoood, pregnant but has miscarrige --
etc. I don't see how what they are doing (if they wind up doing it --
it's not going to happen this season) is like a soap-opera.
Is it more soap-opery than having Worf deliver Molly, or for that matter,
mroe soap-opery than the story in which we found out that Keiko was
pregnant again and O'Brien was having a hard time dealing with it?
And I don't see how this one storyline would kill DS9.
Brad Filippone
: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
: Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
: have ever heard done on ST???
: Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
Funy you should say that! James Doohan was on Bold and the Beautiful a
couple years back!
: I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
: mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
There have ALWAYS been soap opera elements in Star Trek! How about Odo's
ongoing love for Kira just for starters?
: I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
: watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
: of ST.
Slow down. Slow down! There, that's better! Now tell me how this is bad
for Deep Space Nine?
: This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
: There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
: DS9.
: So because I do not want this I have decided to let Berman and co. know
: this.
: Maybe if others will write letters as well Berman will see the light and
: note that he has taken the wrong direction.
Very well. You do that. ANd maybe if OTHERS will write letters as well
Berman will see the light and realize that he is already doing the right
thing!
: You must act now, as Nana is getting more pregnant by the minute.
Now this IS amusing! How does one become MORE pregnant. You're either
pregnant or you're not! It's like saying Shakespeare is more dead that
Gene Roddenberry, because SHakespeare's been dead longer!
: OK, good luck to us
: SAVE DS9 FROM SOAP OPERA DOOM
Save DS9 from ever being run by someone like this!
: Vered
--
Rick Keir
> This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
> There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
> DS9.
I can see it now: "In space, no one knows you're pregnant."
I'm sorry that childbirth is such a terrifying prospect
to you. Perhaps you could switch to "Space: Above and
Beyond" -- I'm sure those bulky combat uniforms make
excellent prophylactics.
--
rdk...@facstaff.wisc.edu / Div. of Info Tech, Univ. of Wisconsin
As I said in another venue, in another context, I didn't come here to
be comfortable. -- STella%thelem...@decwrl.dec.com
Gabe White
: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
: Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
: Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
: have ever heard done on ST???
: Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
--
"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men."
-Ben Franklin
Denise Weldon-Siviy
deal. Obviously, people won't stop reproducing just because
they live on a space station. This is such a simple and natural
part of life (in any century) that it seems unrealistic and
constrained that all the Trek series have covered it so infrequently.
I also find it bizarre that anytime characters are pregnant, it
is written in as the focus of the show. Apparently, Trek characters
reproduce only when absolutely essential to the plot. Doesn't this
strike anyone else as strange?
Just sign me 35-weeks with number 4.
Kat Freymuth
> Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
>
> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
Nana Visitor is the actress who plays Kira. I didn't know she was
pregnant.
John Aegard
> Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
> have ever heard done on ST???
Evidently DN does not watch Voyager, or at least does so with the sound
turned down.
<rant deleted.>
Everybody chill out. This is the same guy who was up in arms over
"Rejoined," subversive piece of pro-homosexual propoganda that it was.
Johnzo.
PVAD
Karen L Lingel
In article <4ljbvn$9...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>, gwh...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) writes:
> Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
Once more slowly: "Nana" is Nana Visitor. She is an actress who
portrays Kira on TV. When Nana the actress gets pregnant,
both she and Kira get large stomachs. Nana got pregnant in the
usual way. (Or do you need me to spell that out for you, too?)
-k-
--------------------------------------
Karen Lingel, Physicist and Penguinist
Jet Silverman
: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
: Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
I, for one, enjoy seeing more of the characters personal lives. It's the
character driven "soap opera" quality of ST that makes it the best SF TV
has ever known.
J
Mark Bernstein
: DN (davi...@post.tau.ac.il) wrote:
: : So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
: : Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
: : Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
: : have ever heard done on ST???
: Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
: this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
: I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
The latest episode (which was excellent, BTW), has nothing to do with this.
"Nana" is Nana Visitor, the actress who plays Kira. (Or is that Kyra?)
She's pregnant. The father is Alexandar Siddig, who plays Dr. Bashir.
To cover the fact that the actress is pregnant, the producers have
announced that they'll do a storyline next season where Keiko (who's
currently pregnant in the story, remember) discovers that she can't
carry the baby to term, and Kira volunteers to carry it for her.
Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
and Miles.
--
Mark Bernstein
m...@arbortext.com
James Buster
Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>and Miles.
But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
--
Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking atomsphere of
poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
-- Calvin
Bill Henley
I believe somebody is overreacting here. I don't have a problem
with "Kira as surrogate mother for Keiko's baby" as an explana-
tion for Nana Visitor's pregnancy. It's a credible science-
fictional idea, thus appropriate for Star Trek, and volunteering
to do this seems more in character for Kira than, say, acciden-
tally becoming pregnant as a result of a casual liaison, or
suddenly marrying somebody who then gets killed off at the end
of the episode.
Well, actually, there *is* something of a credibility problem
here; personally, if I were looking for a surrogate mother
for my child, I think I would pick somebody of my own species.
(Humanoid though she is, Kira is, in theory, an entirely
different species from earth-humans, a Bajoran.) However,
Star Trek characters of different species conceive children
together all the time, in defiance of biological law (Spock
being the first and most famous example) so it's actually less
of a stretch to believe that a Bajoran mother could gestate
an already-conceived human baby.
--
"Still I persist in wondering whether folly must always be our
nemesis." (Edgar Pangborn, author of DAVY, an unsung great book)
******* William Henley, aka Mr. Bill (ID aa396), Asst. Sysop,
Cleveland Free-Net Science Fiction & Fantasy SIG
dr...@sawdust.cvfn.org
wrote:
> DN (davi...@post.tau.ac.il) wrote:
> : So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
> : Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
> : Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
> : have ever heard done on ST???
> : Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
> : Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
> :
>
Hmmm...I must admit that this is a strange way to handle the situation. I
don't see what would be so wrong if the plot was simply Kira getting
pregnant the old fashioned way. Maybe the Trek gang didn't want TWO
ongoing pregnancies at the same time (Keiko's and Kira's) which seems
ridiculous. Why NOT have two pregnancies...THAT would make for realism and
allow for more believable plotlines.
I'm trusting the Trek writers to handle this deftly...the DS9 gang hasn't
let me down so far yet this year...this could either be very well done, or
very awkwardly done...but it doubt if it'll be any middle ground.
The thing that rings most "untrue" here is that Kira has no relationship
with Keiko whatsoever, or at best, an antagonistic one (See "In the Hands
of the Prophets") so the writers have a lot of work cut out for them to
convince us and make this plot element believable...
Waiting and curious...
Drew
-------------------------------------------------
"More matter, less art!"
å£ertrude, Act II, scene ii, "Hamlet"
-------------------------------------------------
Kazuya Uesaki
she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
K. Uesaki
L. Gay Palmero
I think this is a bit extreme. Professional women certainly deserve to
experience the joys of motherhood if they want to. I certainly don't
think we should be fired and replaced because we get pregnant. That's
a very old-fashioned approach. Ms. Visitor is an excellent actress and
quite capable of making believable almost any storyline, so I have no
qualms about her ability to handle the one proposed in the TV Guide.
Let's not berate her for her decision to have a child.
--
L. Gay Palmero
g...@texas.net
JDWiseman
A: Where the hell do you get off judging her!
B: how do you know she didn't want the baby!
C: What business is it for you to nag about how irresponsible you *thin*
it is for her to get pregnant duirng a series? Not the same thing, but
what about the people who gain weight, or accidently shave their heads and
grow a beard. Get a life and quit judging others. It's her life, she can
do whatever she wants with it. You do not own her, her job is to
entertain you and millions of others. Get over it!!!
Go on, attack me.
JD
JDWiseman
doctor will come up witht something during the complications we know she
will have. But you're right, its as rediculous as a Vulcan and a Terran
marrying and pruducing offspring. Or a Cardassian and a Bjoran. Or a
Romulan and a Terran. Or a Klingon and a Terran. Would never work. And
besides it insults our intellegence!!
JD
Allison M. Martens
<Kazuya...@ping.be> wrote:
> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
> Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>
> K. Uesaki
You know, when you read something this ignorant and sexist, you just have
to laugh and wonder if the neanderthal typing this even has opposable
thumbs.
So, by this logic, Alexander Siddig should get canned too, right? After
all, he provided the sperm. Nana didn't get pregnant alone, but that's a
fact of life that might not fit in a brain as small as yours.
Get a clue and a life,
- Allison
Carlo emilio Ang - MECE/W94
it could get worse. I said it before, the writers of Trek seem
to have this "assumed stupidity" with regards to fans. Trekers will
supposedly just swallow and accept what Paramount wants you to.
So I switched to Babylon 5, it is everything Star Trek is not.
The creator is accountable (via net conversations EVERYDAY). There
is no RESET button for the status quo. There is a pre-planned story
for everything, for the entire 5 year series (beginning, middle, and
END). There is no pointless SPACIAL/TEMPORAL anomaly of the week to waste
an hour of story. There is no techno-babble/senseless physics as an
excuse for bad writing.
Give up on Trek (if you want). Check out the Star Trek ALTERNATIVE,
BABYLON 5 (if you will).
Tarchannon
> Everybody chill out. This is the same guy who was up in arms over
> "Rejoined," subversive piece of pro-homosexual propoganda that it was.
Ex-squeeze-me? Could you possibly be that dim?
Tarch
Bosco
> So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
> Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
> Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
> have ever heard done on ST???
> Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
> Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>
> I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
> mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
>
> I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
> watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
> of ST.
>
> This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
> There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
> DS9.
>
Don't you think you should see the completed story before you jump to
conclusions? Sometimes the best Star Trek stories come out of the
strangest premises.
Bosco
--
Bishop Bosco, D.D. - bo...@netgate.net
"I have found that 100 strokes with a stiff brush can take care of the most stubborn tail."
-Pepe Le Pew. O-
Susan Duncan
What a strange little post this is. I have no idea what
point you are trying to make. I would conclude that you
have never actually watched a soap opera.
Keiko is pregnant. The actress who plays Kira is pregnant
in real life. Transferring Keiko's pregnancy to Kira seems
like an idea solution.
What's your problem?
Susan
In article <4lidq2$n...@post.tau.ac.il>, davi...@post.tau.ac.il says...
>
>So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>have ever heard done on ST???
>Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>
>I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
>mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
>
>I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
>watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
>of ST.
>
>This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
>There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
>DS9.
>
>So because I do not want this I have decided to let Berman and co. know
>this.
>
>Maybe if others will write letters as well Berman will see the light and
>note that he has taken the wrong direction.
>
>You must act now, as Nana is getting more pregnant by the minute.
>
>OK, good luck to us
>
>SAVE DS9 FROM SOAP OPERA DOOM
>
>Vered
>
>
>
>
James
>So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>have ever heard done on ST???
>Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
>mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
>I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
>watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
>of ST.
>This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
>There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
>DS9.
>So because I do not want this I have decided to let Berman and co. know
>this.
>Maybe if others will write letters as well Berman will see the light and
>note that he has taken the wrong direction.
>You must act now, as Nana is getting more pregnant by the minute.
>OK, good luck to us
>SAVE DS9 FROM SOAP OPERA DOOM
I love the drama episodes just as much as the others.....but this goes
beyond that to just stupid......I do not want them to waste their
money on this stinking ep(or the one with lauwxana being pregnant),
but it is already too late to do anything......
Laura Gillenwater
are assuming that this Kira-carrying-Keiko's baby thing is going to
stupid, horrible, etc., but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it well.
Can't we give them the benefit of the doubt and hold off b*tching
until/if it turns out badly? I've never seen so many people make so many
negative pre-judgements about something they generally like!
Just a suggestion...
Laura
Jas.
episodes until _after_ I've seen them. Believe me, it saves me
a lot of grief. All we know is that Kira will be carrying
O'Brien's baby. We don't know how that's going to happen, why
that's going to happen, or where they're ultimately going to go
with it. Wait and see.
IMHO, I'm glad to see they're not afraid to take a few risks.
And _if_ this storyline turns out bad, so what? There'll be
other stories.
Best,
Jas.
Dawn S Friedman
Karen L Lingel <k...@lns598.lns.cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>In article <4ljbvn$9...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>, gwh...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) writes:
>>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
>> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>
>portrays Kira on TV. When Nana the actress gets pregnant,
>both she and Kira get large stomachs. Nana got pregnant in the
>usual way. (Or do you need me to spell that out for you, too?)
>
I bet there are a lot of women who'd be happy if he could be got
to agree with that! "I realize you'd rather be with Nana, but
this is the standard procedure. Now take off your clothes and
give me that smile..."
--
Dawn Friedman d...@world.std.com
tomlinson
: Keiko is pregnant. The actress who plays Kira is pregnant
: in real life. Transferring Keiko's pregnancy to Kira seems
: like an idea solution.
I've been following this ridiculous thread with some amusement
("ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR THIS???" Good Lord...) It does
raise an interesting question--how have films worked with (or around)
pregnant actresses?
For example, Veronica Lake was seven months' pregnant during the filming
of Preston Sturges' _Sullivan's Travels_, but you wouldn't know it from
the film. I also seem to remember that Dorothy Comingore was several
months' pregnant during the filming of _Citizen Kane_.
My limited store of movie trivia doesn't contain an example of a film
where an actress' pregnancy was worked into the story. I'm sure,
though, that many such examples exist.
I can't help but wince slightly (only slightly) at the _ad hoc_
device used to work Nana Visitor's pregnancy into the story. But
the _Sullivan's Travels_ option doesn't seem to be a viable one,
not for an ongoing series--so DS9's solution looks to be the best
one. (But, I don't watch the show, so who am I to say whether it'll
work or not?)
In any case, here's wishing Ms. Visitor the very best,
-et
--
Ernest S. Tomlinson - e...@ugcs.caltech.edu, etom...@rohan.sdsu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------
Xanadu's livestock--the fowl of the air, the fish of the sea, the beast of the
field and jungle; two of each--the biggest private zoo since Noah. Like the
pharaohs, Xanadu's landlord leaves many stones to mark his grave. Since the
Pyramids, Xanadu is the costliest monument a man has built to himself.
M.Warren.
>In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
>Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>
>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
>--
> -- Calvin
Ok....did the fact that Spock was half human/half vulcan insult your
intelligence??..what about Dianna Troi..half betozoid/half human..
anyway,.,a late episode of TNG explained that all humaNOID races have
a common DNA link..(The Chase).
Mike Warren.
p.s. did anyone else notice how similar the holographic being at the
end of 'The Chase' looked to the Founders????...
ORDOVER
Keiko, Kira, and Bashir are somewhere and the baby is going to die unless
it's transfered to Kira.
Now, I do have a couple of problems with this: 1) It's alwyas irksome
when a plot line is forced on a show by outside circumstances -- like
having to write a character out because an actor is leaving, etc. It
always feels a little clunky and 2) becuase "Womb for rent" just isn't as
easy as that -- it takes months of biological preparation for a woman's
body to prepare itself to carry a fetus rather than an embryo -- the body
slowly adjusts, physically and hormonally, to the chaning conditions in
pregnancy. But I suppose Trek Science will compensate.
Other than that, what's the big deal?
Patrick Ocampo
>In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
>Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>
>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
>--
>poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
> -- Calvin
Yeah well, all the hybrids they depict on Trek are ludicrus to begin with, starting
with Mr Spock. (copper based green blood? That would kill a human being.) The
truth is, if you want plausible aliens, the t.v. series hasn't been written yet.
Personally I can forgive Trek a lot. Despite their flaws they come up with great
ways to use s.f. to generate character based stories, and that's what makes Trek
great.
Patrick Ocampo
>I really don't see what the whole pregnancy issue is such a big
>deal. Obviously, people won't stop reproducing just because
>they live on a space station. This is such a simple and natural
>part of life (in any century) that it seems unrealistic and
>constrained that all the Trek series have covered it so infrequently.
>
>I also find it bizarre that anytime characters are pregnant, it
>is written in as the focus of the show. Apparently, Trek characters
>reproduce only when absolutely essential to the plot. Doesn't this
>strike anyone else as strange?
>
>Just sign me 35-weeks with number 4.
Was Rosalind Chao actually pregnant during her TNG stint? I know Gates McFadden was
and the pregnancy was ignored in TNG. The same for both Shelly Long and Kirstie
Alley during "Cheers" as well. It's not always a major focus on every series.
GURBY
******
I actually find it hard to believe, given the level of Federation
medical science that has been presented on TNG, DS9, and Voyager
that Keiko would have such an insurmmountable problem that Bashir
would have to remove her baby and transplant it into Kira. That,
to me anyway, is the really far-fetched part of this plot line.
GURBY
"If we're gonna do this stupid thing, let's at least do it
smart"....Mighty Max
--
.
TMG...@usa.pipeline.com
Aleph Press
: In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
: Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
: >Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
: >reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
: >pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
: >and Miles.
: But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
: *human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
No more so than the notion that a human woman could carry a child with
copper based blood... which, I suppose, means that Spock is a ridiculous
insult to the viewer's intelligence.
Yes, biologically it's not possible. Biologically Kira shouldn't look
human. Biologically Spock wasn't possible. This is Star trek, not real
life, and in Star Trek, many alien races are fully compatible with us. To
say that they're not would involve retconning Spock, Deanna Troi, and
B'Elanna Torres out of existence.
--
The 1990's will be remembered historically as the decade when the
Russians gained freedom of speech and the Americans lost theirs.
-- Alara Rogers, Aleph Press
al...@netcom.com
Fight the Communications Decency Act! Preserve free speech on the net!
Check out http://www.aclu.org for links and info.
Dave Roy
>Just a suggestion...
These are Star Trek newsgroups.......what the heck were you thinking? :-)
Dave Roy
*****************************************************************************
* Dave Roy hi...@earthlink.net *
* Reality is a crutch for those who can't *
* handle science fiction. *
* Watch the new Dr. Who movie on Fox!!!! Tues, May 14 7pm *
*****************************************************************************
NETU1COM
truly good finds but the 9" figures are certanily hard to find peices. If
interested reply to:
ed phillips
texas city tx
Paul Finn
:
: Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
: reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
: pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
: and Miles.
I agree with Mark that the story-line has the potential to explore some
new character dynamics etc. but the idea that Keiko will not be able to
carry the baby to term hardly fits in with what we know of 24th Century
medicine, does it. From what I've heard, Bashir is a damn good doctor.
(if it wasn't for that damn post-ganglionic nerve thing).
Besides there is a perfectly simple way to avoid the whole issue..
It is possible that episodes could be filmed around te "bump" and not
have it mentioned at all.
This was done towards the end of TNG Season 4 when Gates Mc Fadden had
her bun in the oven and the producers decided to only allow her upper
torso to be shown on screen. (I'm not sure of the exact episode but I
know it's around the time of "The Drumhead" or later.)
I think it will be interesting to see how TPTB handle this one and I look
forward to seeing the results.
Paul Finn.
Jason John Seaver
>So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>have ever heard done on ST???
No, no... The most ridiculous thing ever done with Star Trek is
called "Threshold".
>Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>
>This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
>There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
>DS9.
I suppose there are. However, this way they can introduce the
pregnancy (which they can't hide nearly as easily as they hid Ms. McFadden's)
without having to resort to a massive restructuring of the plans for the
series on short notice. It makes good practical sense.
>SAVE DS9 FROM SOAP OPERA DOOM
Why is it whenever a show has storylines that last more than an
hour and involve (shudder!) personal/romantic/social complications, the
perjorative "Soap Opera" gets hurled at it? DS9 tends to do it in a
fairly realistic manner, and DS9's continuing stories certainly aren't
as melodramatic as the average soap opera. Alien Nation had the term
thrown at it too, and it didn't fit that show any better than it fits DS9.
--
Jason Seaver: jse...@wpi.wpi.edu |"Is this a good thing, Bull?"
WPI Student and fan of Atari, |"No, Axl, it's a continuous employment
Taz-Mania and SeaQuest 2032. | thing - and that's better than good!"
Boy, can I pick 'em or what? | -Taz-Mania, "Taz Babies"
Kevin Napolitano
:In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
:Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
:>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
:>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
:>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira,
:Keiko,
:>and Miles.
:
:*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
So, this is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence. Just
like:
1) Cross-Species Mating and Cross-Species Characters.
(B'ellana, Spock, Worf's mate (Kaylar(?)), Troi, Gul Dukat's
half-Bajoran child, etc...)
2) So many aliens look "just like us" but with weird noses and
ears.
3) Wesley Crusher can "step out of time"- please.
4) A cruise missle that just "happens" to be engineered by B'ellana
gets picked up by the Caretaker and then gets sent in the
EXACT SAME DIRECTION as Voyager. Even a 1 degree difference in
course would have made Voyager miss the missle. 360 X 360 (we're
in 3D here...) = 129600.
5) You could transport a baby from a mother's womb with no
significant side effects. (and INTO another woman's body
with no side effects!!??(did this really happen?!)
6) The magic transporter in general (too many to mention here)
7) All the babes in TOS were green and wore either mini-skirts
or togas. ;)
In other words, having Kira, with all the "advanced Federation
technology at Dr. Bashir's disposal, carry a *human* baby isn't
too big a stretch for our imaginations. :)
kevin
Paul Finn
: I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
: she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
: actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
: Rick Berman should fire her
This is a very strict to take, after all it is possible that Nana Visitor
consulted the producers before becoming pregnent.
Also it takes two people to make a baby(conventionally speaking) so by
K's way of thinking Alexander Siddig should also be fired,(If the
rumours are true that he is the father. (we're a little behind on all
the gossip and scandal here in good old .ie), in the process losing two very
interesting characters.
:..assign another actress for Kira!!
nobody would be able to play the part the same way Nana does, she was the
one given the part in the first place so obviously the producers thought
she was the most suitable person for the role.
Paul.
(I really think I have too much time on my hands)
R. Tang
Laura Gillenwater <twor...@pop3.nfi.com> wrote:
>Why can't you just wait and *see* if it ends up being bad?
If I can think of two or three credible ways a plotline can be
handled well, I generally wait until they actually handle it before
commenting. Apparently, there are a number of people who don't have that
kind of imagination....
--
Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
Editor, Asian American Theatre Central:
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~gwangung/TC.html
"The most unAmerican thing you can say is "He/she makes too much money."
C. K. Bales
>medical science that has been presented on TNG, DS9, and Voyager
>that Keiko would have such an insurmmountable problem that Bashir
>would have to remove her baby and transplant it into Kira. That,
>to me anyway, is the really far-fetched part of this plot line.
Don't forget that in the 24th century that Data was an anomily and
that when Worf crushed his spine the injury was by, conventional
methods, irreversable. There has been a lot of advancements, but even
with them there are conditions and accidents that prevent conventional
methods from doing anymore than putting a finger in the dike. DS9 is
going by the current standards for 24th century medical methods and if
the reason why Keiko (who has already carried a child to term and had
it delivered by a Klingon (which only shows how strong the woman is!))
has to have a surrogate mother is due to a serious accident, then yes,
I can see this plot line. But, as has been said, waiting and seeing
makes sense too. In other fandoms we became upset with a plot device
we heard was coming and LOVED the episdoe later when it aired. If
they film by any means as the fandom I am speaking, this ep was filmed
during the summer and early fall and it is too late to change
anything, but only sit back and wait and when there is solid evidence
sitting before you as to the fesablity, then write and let them know
what you thought of the aired ep. Only next season can be affected.
Make it better for next year, let this year be the blue-print.
C. K. Bales
R. Tang
Karen L Lingel <k...@lns598.lns.cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <4ljbvn$9...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>, gwh...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) writes:
>> Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
>>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
>> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>Once more slowly: "Nana" is Nana Visitor. She is an actress who
>portrays Kira on TV. When Nana the actress gets pregnant,
>both she and Kira get large stomachs. Nana got pregnant in the
>usual way. (Or do you need me to spell that out for you, too?)
Well....this >IS< a *.startrek group, after all.....
Ian J. Ball
rdk...@facstaff.wisc.edu (Rick Keir) wrote:
> I can see it now: "In space, no one knows you're pregnant."
>
> I'm sorry that childbirth is such a terrifying prospect
> to you. Perhaps you could switch to "Space: Above and
> Beyond" -- I'm sure those bulky combat uniforms make
> excellent prophylactics.
Oh come on Rick! Give the original poster a little credit! He is not the
only one who was appalled when he heard how they planned to write Vistor's
preganancy into the show. I, for one, immediately thought, "Uh oh, DS9 is
going the same way as 'Voyager'!"
Personally, I hope the writers wise up and come up with a different
scenario for her pregnancy...
--
Ian J. Ball | Want my TV episode guides or rec.arts.tv FAQ?
Grad Student, UCLA | http://members.aol.com/IJBall/WWW/IJBall.html
IJB...@aol.com | ftp://members.aol.com/IJBall3/FTP/
i...@ucla.edu | "What to do, with time so short?..."
Ian J. Ball
Bernstein) wrote:
> Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
> reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
> pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
> and Miles.
Your personal feelings on the issue are pretty irrelevant. The two issues
with this storyline are: 1) does it damage the integrity of DS9?, and 2)
will it turn off viewers?
The jury is out on #2, but IMHO, this storyline does indeed damage DS9's
credibility.
John D Cholewa
M.Warren. (md...@mailbox.cc.rl.ac.uk) wrote:
: bit...@seal.engr.sgi.com (James Buster) wrote:
: >In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
: >Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
: >>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
: >>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
: >>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
: >>and Miles.
: >But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
: >*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
: > -- Calvin
: Ok....did the fact that Spock was half human/half vulcan insult your
: intelligence??..what about Dianna Troi..half betozoid/half human..
: anyway,.,a late episode of TNG explained that all humaNOID races have
: a common DNA link..(The Chase).
: Mike Warren.
: p.s. did anyone else notice how similar the holographic being at the
: end of 'The Chase' looked to the Founders????...
The actress who played that being played the first Founder that we ever
saw.
-JC
Jeff Schwartz
>==========James Buster, 4/23/96==========
>
>In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
>Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>
>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
Imagine that. Trek writers insulting viewers' intelligence. Whooda
thunk it was possible!
>--
>Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking
>atomsphere of
>poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
> -- Calvin
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey A. Schwartz jeff.s...@SanDiegoCA.ATTGIS.COM
NCR Corporation Global Partner Labs
17095 Via del Campo ms 9853 San Diego, CA 92127
(619) 485-2052 VoicePlus 440-2052
===============================================================
Morning would be fine if only it would come later in the day.
GO REDWINGS
Mike O'Donnell
>grow a beard. Get a life and quit judging others. It's her life, she can
>Go on, attack me.
I'm not attacking (actually, I agree with you), but I was just
wondering, how does someone "accidently" shave their head and grow a
beard? Seems like it'd be something you'd have to plan..
Junsok Yang
says...
>In article <4ljbvn$9...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>,
gwh...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) writes:
>> Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
>>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
>> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>Once more slowly: "Nana" is Nana Visitor. She is an actress who
>portrays Kira on TV. When Nana the actress gets pregnant,
>both she and Kira get large stomachs. Nana got pregnant in the
>usual way. (Or do you need me to spell that out for you, too?)
The above conversation reminds me of a piece of dialogue from an old
sitcom (I think it was Herman's Head, but I won't stand behind it.) Two
female co-workers are talking; both in late 20s to early 30s, one is a
mousey secretary; the other one is an oversexed low level executive:
"I'll have you know that virgins have active social lives."
"Yeah, all those Star Trek coventions."
:)
Followups redirected to .current only.
--
****************************************************************
"The idea seems to be that if people refuse to obey the
equations we have fit to their past behavior, we can pass laws to
make them do so." ... Robert Lucas & Thomas Sargent
Junsok Yang (yan...@yalevm.cis.yale.edu)
Ian
>In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>,
>Mark Bernstein <m...@aspen.arbortext.com> wrote:
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
The only real difference between Bajorans and Humans seems to be the ridges on
their noses... and it IS possible in the "real world" for a species to be
implanted with an embryo from another species, though it has only been done as
an experiment.
Kyonghun Lee
>
> So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
> Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
> Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
> have ever heard done on ST???
Well the episode might actually *bleep* as you suggested,
but how about waiting until it airs and THEN pick on it?
I am not keen on this one since I am not keen on ANY unplanned
episodes, but the one in X-files with Scully pregnant didn't turn
out to be bad...
Kyong
Kazuya Uesaki
>Nana Visitor is irresponsible, you say?????
>
>A: Where the hell do you get off judging her!
As one of the viewer for DS9.
>B: how do you know she didn't want the baby!
I did not say she does not want baby.
>C: What business is it for you to nag about how irresponsible you *thin*
>it is for her to get pregnant duirng a series? Not the same thing, but
>what about the people who gain weight, or accidently shave their heads and
>grow a beard. Get a life and quit judging others. It's her life, she can
>do whatever she wants with it. You do not own her, her job is to
>entertain you and millions of others. Get over it!!!
If I am not interested in ST series, then it is not my own business. But unfortunally I am a fun of ST aeries(including DS9) and I think I can tell
my opinion about this series. Of course it is her life, but she also has the
duty to play major Kira in DS9. And she should think about how her pregnancy would affect the future episodes of DS9 series.
>
>Go on, attack me.
>
>JD
I don't want to attack anybody, JD.
K. Uesaki
Susan Duncan
>
>I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
>she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
>actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>
>K. Uesaki
ROTFLMAO!! This is a joke, isn't it? You don't seriously think
that because Nana Visitor has a *job* as an actress that she
automatically forfeits her right to a private life? I am certain
that she is well paid, but I don't think that they pay her enough
to give up her entire private life.
Susan
sdu...@nr.infi.net
Kazuya Uesaki
>
>
> Kazuya Uesaki (Kazuya...@ping.be) wrote:
> : I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
> : she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
> : actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
> : Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>
> : K. Uesaki
>
> world). I mean, it's not like this doesn't happen often. As I recall, the
> same thing happened to Gillian Anderson last year, and I didn't see you
> ranting about that!
Maybe I said too much but I am not familier with gillian Anderson.
> But anyway, I vaguely agree in a kind of way, so you can basically blow off
> the last paragraph. But there IS something you said that does somewhat tick
> me off. You're ranting about Nana Visitor like she's the only one on the
> cast who caused this to occur, and you're completely okaying Siddig, who's
> the one that supplied half of the effort (maybe more <g>) of what caused the
> pregnancy. It's kind of annoying that you're insulting only one of them,
> and not the other.
> -JC
>
Of course he is also irresponsible. I forgot to menthion about him.
K. Uesaki
Tricia B Wilke
> Your personal feelings on the issue are pretty irrelevant. The two issues
> with this storyline are: 1) does it damage the integrity of DS9?, and 2)
> will it turn off viewers?
>
> The jury is out on #2, but IMHO, this storyline does indeed damage DS9's
> credibility.
Hi--I'm new to this group. And, granted, I've let my viewership of DS9
and other Trek lapse as of late for various reasons, but come on people!
This is the Trek universe of logic and credibility. The same universe
that resurrected Spock and put Scotty in a transporter loop. The same
universe that had Troi have an "immaculate conception" and gave Riker a
"transporter" twin. So I don't think this makes DS9 lose any more
credibility than, say, it did with "Spock's brain." Trek has always been
like "well, if it makes a good story, to hell with the science. The
audience will willingly suspend its disbelief." Since when has the
majority of science in Trek been credible?
Trish
Dale Osborn
>
> In article <4lidq2$n...@post.tau.ac.il>, DN <davi...@post.tau.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
> > Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
> > Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
> > have ever heard done on ST???
> >
> > I know I don't. I know that I watch ST because it is not the above
> > mentioned soap opera, or any other soap opera for that matter.
> >
> > I want Berman and co. to give us fans more credit, and to think who is
> > watching the show now, and not about who he would like to have as viewers
> > of ST.
> >
> > This story is completely out of line for ST. It should go elsewhere.
> > There are many ways to deal with Nana's pregnancy without helping to kill
> > DS9.
> >
> conclusions? Sometimes the best Star Trek stories come out of the
> strangest premises.
>
> Bosco
> Besides, DN <davi...@post.tau.ac.il, you can always turn the channel! You
can't always get what you want, but isn't it great when an episode seems
tailored specifically to your preferences? - once every so many weeks?
Life is too short. Change the channel!
Dale Osborn
<snip>
> Give up on Trek (if you want). Check out the Star Trek ALTERNATIVE,
> BABYLON 5 (if you will).
Now here is an example of Freedom of Choice. Carlo didn't like Star Trek,
and he changed the channel. Now he is happy. This just goes to show, you
can't please everyone all the time. And isn't it nice that we have such a
wonderful selection of programming to choose from on the television.
For what it's worth, I enjoy (still enjoy) all Star Trek series.
Thanks, Paramount!
Robert Holland
>
> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
> Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>
> K. Uesaki
Here's a fine example of the brave new world Roddenberry envisioned.
When a woman becomes pregnant, fire her.
Haven't we been down that road?
--RH
Alan D Earhart
Damn straight! What do you think this is...the nineties?
>
>Haven't we been down that road?
But we're talking about Star Trek, man! God forbid a couple decide to have
a baby when they are working on a TV show! What a lack of professionalism
they have showed...it's not like women are *allowed* to become pregnant
in other jobs...right?
Robert C. Levels
> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
> Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>
> K. Uesaki
>
>
Isn't that a little harsh. How do you know that she wasn't being
careful. Do you advocate firing women for solely on the basis that they
become pregnant? Whether or not you are in a highly visible position or
have a "regular role," I think Nana still has the right and privilege to
have a family without being penalized for it!!! Hello, wake up and join
the rest of us in the Nineties. Women have rights too!!!!
Very disturbed by this posting,
Bob
XeneX
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
>--
You're intelligence (when it comes to Trek) needs no insulting. You
manage to handle that for yourself. You ever hear of Spock? Half
human, half Vulcan. Characters of different species' have been
conceiving children together since the beginning of Trek. I see no
reason why a Bajoran - humanoid and very close to human biology -
can't carry a human baby with proper medical precautions taken.
-Xen
XeneX
>I really don't see what the whole pregnancy issue is such a big
>deal. Obviously, people won't stop reproducing just because
>they live on a space station. This is such a simple and natural
>part of life (in any century) that it seems unrealistic and
>constrained that all the Trek series have covered it so infrequently.
The focus of the show is on the main characters, not the hundreds of
thousands of people on the station. How often will the few main
characters have children? Only ONE of them is actually married...
three current characters already have children (Sisko, O'Brian, Worf).
These are people, not bunnies!
>I also find it bizarre that anytime characters are pregnant, it
>is written in as the focus of the show. Apparently, Trek characters
>reproduce only when absolutely essential to the plot. Doesn't this
>strike anyone else as strange?
Not at all, parenthood is a big important part of life. Do you think
what they should do is in the middle of a battle with the Klingon's,
Kira just drops to the floor of the Defiant and pops out a baby... and
they just continue on as if nothing happened? Now THAT would be an
insult to intelligence!
Dale Osborn
>
> In article <4ljbvn$9...@acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us>, gwh...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Gabe White) writes:
> > Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
> >this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
> > I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>
> Once more slowly: "Nana" is Nana Visitor. She is an actress who
> portrays Kira on TV. When Nana the actress gets pregnant,
> both she and Kira get large stomachs. Nana got pregnant in the
> usual way. (Or do you need me to spell that out for you, too?)
>
> --------------------------------------
> Karen Lingel, Physicist and Penguinist
I sincerely apologize for cross-posting this spam, but I can NOT resist.
Oh please Karen, Please spell out for us, what is the "usual way?"
I know I shouldn't even send this, but for some idiotic reason, I couldn't
stop laughing... No offense intended!
Dale Osborn
>
> In article <4ljgp4$q...@condor.ic.net>, m...@aspen.arbortext.com (Mark
> Bernstein) wrote:
>
> > Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
> > reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
> > pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
> > and Miles.
>
> with this storyline are: 1) does it damage the integrity of DS9?, and 2)
> will it turn off viewers?
>
> The jury is out on #2, but IMHO, this storyline does indeed damage DS9's
> credibility.
Just another wrinkle in the fabric of Deep Space 9. I see some interesting
possibilities. Pregnant women in the military on potential combat duty.
Freedom of choice, personal responsibility, the stuff of life.
Opposed?
Dale Osborn
>
> Hi--I'm new to this group. And, granted, I've let my viewership of DS9
> and other Trek lapse as of late for various reasons, but come on people!
> This is the Trek universe of logic and credibility. The same universe
> that resurrected Spock and put Scotty in a transporter loop. The same
> universe that had Troi have an "immaculate conception" and gave Riker a
> "transporter" twin. So I don't think this makes DS9 lose any more
> credibility than, say, it did with "Spock's brain." Trek has always been
> like "well, if it makes a good story, to hell with the science. The
> audience will willingly suspend its disbelief." Since when has the
> majority of science in Trek been credible?
>
> Trish
Hear here! Go on Trish. I would just add - since when is currently
accepted science (or anything) the "truth?" Didn't the majority of people
believe the world was flat prior to the 16th century? For the super-cynics
out there, I'll grant you that history did not record the oppinions of a
majority of people back then. Who is to say what we believe in today will
not be dispelled in ten, fifty or one hundred years?
What is the truth? Truth here is, this probably doesn't belong on the
current thread!!! SORRY but I love fishing... (another newsgroup <snip>)
Dale Osborn
>
> But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
> *human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
> --
Please don't get me started on interracial and intelligence issues. Well,
okay, since you insist...
The language is similar to my perception of certain utterances some sixty or
so years ago. Why not just let the persons involved just do what they must,
including an interracial surrgate motherhood, and mind our own business.
Especially since it has absolutely no bearing on the bystander's life other
than to cause needless apoplexy (the cause of which is probably not anyones
fault if we believe in the genetic over environment theory).
Oh well.
Dale Osborn
>
> >what about the people who gain weight, or accidently shave their heads and
> >grow a beard. Get a life and quit judging others. It's her life, she can
>
>
> I'm not attacking (actually, I agree with you), but I was just
> wondering, how does someone "accidently" shave their head and grow a
> beard? Seems like it'd be something you'd have to plan..
As the tears roll from my eyes, I mean no offense. But Mike, c'mon! Okay,
I accidentally grow a beard almost every weekend. And it's not hard to
accidentally shave a patch off my head. Why? I'm an American "Fighting
Person," and my hair is usually very short to begin with (those base
barbers are barbarians!). And since I have no choice but to shave every day
of duty, I tend to let it go (subconciously of course) when I don't have to
go to work.
I don't plan to do it. In my apparently messed up mind, it just happens!
This has been just one person's point of view on the planning of beards and
shaved heads. Perhaps a minority oppinion, but nonetheless an oppinion!
Everybody's got one!
Jessica Krucek
<Kazuya...@ping.be> writes:
>
>I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
>she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a
proffesional
>actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>
>K. Uesaki
Oh, and fire Sid, too. Yeah, right.Now, we're out two good
characters, leaving more time for that @#$% Klingon. Smooth move.
Here's to Furure Days and future son, Sid and Nana. Even though this
plotline is the final straw making it impossible to support your jobs.
- Jessica
Jessica Krucek
<twor...@pop3.nfi.com> writes:
>
>Why can't you just wait and *see* if it ends up being bad? So many
people
>are assuming that this Kira-carrying-Keiko's baby thing is going to
>stupid, horrible, etc., but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it
well.
I've "sat and waited" through ever dumb-ass plotline DS9 has done
to attract the young men and the TNG viewers.
They sealed off the Gamma Quadrant by making the Dominion a big
threat. I waited and saw and didn't like it.
Then, they traded the runabouts for the big SOOPER-KEWL spaceship.
I waited and saw and realized how much of the action moved to there,
rather than the station.
TPTB added elements of paranoia and bullshit by having Founders
impersonating every nut and bolt. Still, I watched.
They stopped all the Bajor stories on the basis that they didn't
attract the right kinds of viewers. I grumbled and waited and saw.
They butcher the characters in crap like "Meridian" and "Defiant."
I waited and watched to see if it would get better.
They abandoned the serious relationships by sending Keiko and Molly
to Bajor and killing off Bariel. By now, I was unhappy.
They put that goddamn Klingon on the show, pay the actor more than
the guys who have busted their butts for three years. The ads put the
Klingon center stage, move almost all the action to the Defiant, and
now I'm pissed.
they put Kira in those heels, low-cut uniform, and the tacky
make-up and haircut. They also have Dax throwing herself at that #$$%
Klingon, and have her wearing low-cut, tight outfits to work out in.
Now, I'm livid.
Now, they plan this crap about Kira carrying the O'Briens' kid,
giving the kid up reluctantly, then *SUFFERING A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN.*
Now, I'm saying "fuck this shit" and living on fanfic!
>Can't we give them the benefit of the doubt and hold off b*tching
>until/if it turns out badly? I've never seen so many people make so
many
>negative pre-judgements about something they generally like!
I've had all I can take. there's something to be said for the last
straw!
- Jessica
tammy thompson
And just what do you suggest they do about it? I know,maybe they can
film her from the chest up, you know like sittin behind a console or
somthing. Maybe she could sprain her ankle or back and have a few months
of bed rest? Or maybe you could watch a few old Sitcoms and come up
with a few good Ideas? I think that they made the best of the situation
and it sure beats some they could've come up with.
Jet Silverman
: But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
: *human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
They already know how to smooth out the RH-/RH+ problem in humans. Why
is it so hard to belive that there would be a way to work out the
surrogate mother problems in the 24th century?
J
Michael Kwan
FOR THIS???>, 'GURBY <TMG...@usa.pipeline.com>' wrote:
>I actually find it hard to believe, given the level of Federation
>medical science that has been presented on TNG, DS9, and Voyager
>that Keiko would have such an insurmmountable problem that Bashir
>would have to remove her baby and transplant it into Kira. That,
>to me anyway, is the really far-fetched part of this plot line.
Now this is the first really intelligent post/criticism that I've seen of
this story line. On the other hand, there may just be some areas where Fed
Med science just hasn't conquered all the problems.
Yrs.,
/s/ Mike Kwan
Michelle Malkin
FOR THIS???>, 'j...@cinenet.net (Jet Silverman)' wrote:
>DN (davi...@post.tau.ac.il) wrote:
>: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>: Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>: Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>: have ever heard done on ST???
>: Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>
>I, for one, enjoy seeing more of the characters personal lives. It's the
>character driven "soap opera" quality of ST that makes it the best SF TV
>has ever known.
>
>J
--
Considering that life is one continuous soap opera and history is THE BIG
SOAP OPERA, I don't see
why the original poster is so upset. If history was taught as who did what
and why and how did it affect everyone, rather than such and such event
happened on such and such date at such and such place,
perhaps more children would develop an interest in it. Perhaps is some
history teachers (of the dry variety) would read some alternate realities,
this point would come home to them.
Mickey
Sgt. Dow Jones
controversy in the history of DS9. It is obvious TPTB don't give a
damn, but if they *did*, they would either:
A) Get Michelle Forbes to come in and play First Officer Ro
for a few episodes until Visitor has fully recovered from her pregnancy.
(as you know TPTB had originally wanted her to be DS9's Bajoran
liason before she decided not to accept the offer)
B) Let the baby be the child of Kira and Shaakar, as others
have suggested, and drop the *stupid* "nervous breakdown" plotline.
-Sgt. Dow Jones
Rhonda Jones
>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>and Miles.
>
>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
sapiens. Besides, with the level of technology available on the
station, theoretically, Keiko should be able to either carry, or have
an artificial uterine incubation device created for her. It would make
for a more interesting story line, however, if the child that Kira will
soon be very visibly carrying were the poduct of a tryst with either
the Prime Minsister of BAjor OR. . . that Cardassaian that used to run
the station, OR. . . even though it might be impossible, ODO!!!!!!!
>--
>Planet Bog -- pools of toxic chemicals bubble under a choking
atomsphere of
>poisonous gases... but aside from that, it's not much like Earth.
> -- Calvin
Rhonda Jones
writes:
>bit...@seal.engr.sgi.com (James Buster) wrote:
>
>>>Personally, I think it's a great idea. Surrogate motherhood is a
>>>reality *now*, and this storyline will both deal with the real
>>>pregnancy and develop new levels of interaction between Kira, Keiko,
>>>and Miles.
>
>>But Kira is an *alien*. That she could be a surrogate mother to a
>>*human* baby is a ridiculous insult to the viewer's intelligence.
>
> You're intelligence (when it comes to Trek) needs no insulting.
You
>manage to handle that for yourself. You ever hear of Spock? Half
>human, half Vulcan. Characters of different species' have been
>conceiving children together since the beginning of Trek. I see no
>reason why a Bajoran - humanoid and very close to human biology -
>can't carry a human baby with proper medical precautions taken.
carry to term? Why would the fetus need to be moved to another body?
We're talkin' babies here, not Trill!
>
>-Xen
> Yes, and there are inherent risks when mixing disparate biological
structures. Do you think that having a child whose very DNA differs
radically from your own is a picnic? The rh factor alone put the baby
Spock's life in danger! (Vulcan blood is based on the copper molecule,
human blood on iron!!!!!)
We won't try to imagine what happend to Amanda when her son started
moving around in her uterus! (Since Vulcans are stronger than Humans!)
Chris Biebel
the
doctor will come up witht something during the complications we know she
will have. But you're right, its as rediculous as a Vulcan and a Terran
marrying and pruducing offspring.<<
Yes, but at least in TOS, they admitted that it took "the best doctors
in the Federation."
>> Or a Cardassian and a Bjoran.<<
I cringed when I heard of this...
>> Or a Romulan and a Terran.<<
Another strain.
>> Or a Klingon and a Terran. <<
I said (before this season) that one of the many reasons that I
liked DS9 over the other Trek shows was that it was the only one that
didn't have a half-human - half-whatever in the cast. I guess that
changed with Dukat's daughter. Oh well...
>> Would never work. And
besides it insults our intellegence!! <<
Yes it does.
Chris Biebel
a common DNA link..(The Chase). <<
Wrong! That did not explain it since they said that they had "seeded"
the planets with their DNA. If that was all the similarities needed to
provide crossbreeding, then humans should be able to crossbreed with
cockroaches (which would have the same amount (or more) of the
"Originals' " DNA that the other species (Klingons, etc.) would have).
Chris Biebel
- Jessica <<
Well, I was going to reply to the previous message, but you did such a
good job that I thought I'd just say, "Well said!" :-)
Chris Biebel
soap-opera-y
-- unwatned pregnancy, single motherhoood, pregnant but has miscarrige
--
etc. <<
So how did TNG handle McFadden's pregnancy? How did X-Files handle
Anderson's pregnancy? (In the latter case, they came up with some GREAT
episodes ("Blood", for instance)There ARE ways around it in a series!
Elizabeth Thomas
In article <4lm13g$o...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, allr...@ix.netcom.com(Jessica Krucek ) writes:
|> In <4ljuuk$8...@alpha.pcix.com> Laura Gillenwater
|> <twor...@pop3.nfi.com> writes:
|> >
|> >Why can't you just wait and *see* if it ends up being bad? So many
|> people
|> >are assuming that this Kira-carrying-Keiko's baby thing is going to
|> >stupid, horrible, etc., but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it
|> well.
|>
|> to attract the young men and the TNG viewers.
|> They sealed off the Gamma Quadrant by making the Dominion a big
|> threat. I waited and saw and didn't like it.
|> to Bajor and killing off Bariel. By now, I was unhappy.
Well, I never liked Bariel/or Keiko - so I didn't mind that but I do
agree w/ you about most of this. especially:
|>
|> They put that goddamn Klingon on the show, pay the actor more than
|> the guys who have busted their butts for three years. The ads put the
Are you serious??? I don't understand it - they pay him MORE? That is
unconscionable. The others took this???
|> Klingon center stage, move almost all the action to the Defiant, and
|> now I'm pissed.
|>
|> they put Kira in those heels, low-cut uniform, and the tacky
|> make-up and haircut. They also have Dax throwing herself at that #$$%
|> Klingon, and have her wearing low-cut, tight outfits to work out in.
|> Now, I'm livid.
yeah - and it was so unnecessary!!
But I will continue watching the show. otherwise Voyager is all we;ve
got! :> (though I think that one is getting a little better)
JDWiseman
that she's pregnant. Or..............we can write into the Story-line
that she is undergoing a slow genetic change in order to infiltrate into a
race of.....Pohbchanalians whose natural state is one of round belliness.
We cana't have her going there all flat stomached; she look pregnant!!!
Can we drop it now?
JD
Brad Filippone
: Kazuya Uesaki (Kazuya...@ping.be) wrote:
: : I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
: : she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
: : actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
: : Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
: : K. Uesaki
: By saying that, you're insulting scores of actresses across the country (and
: world). I mean, it's not like this doesn't happen often. As I recall, the
: same thing happened to Gillian Anderson last year, and I didn't see you
: ranting about that!
: But anyway, I vaguely agree in a kind of way, so you can basically blow off
: the last paragraph. But there IS something you said that does somewhat tick
: me off. You're ranting about Nana Visitor like she's the only one on the
: cast who caused this to occur, and you're completely okaying Siddig, who's
: the one that supplied half of the effort (maybe more <g>) of what caused the
: pregnancy. It's kind of annoying that you're insulting only one of them,
: and not the other.
: -JC
--
Also, take note if you didn't already know, that Gates McFadden was
pregnant throughout most of the fourth season of TNG. Does this make HER
irresponsible?
Brad Filippone
: Very interesting thread, this. This is surely the biggest
: controversy in the history of DS9. It is obvious TPTB don't give a
: damn, but if they *did*, they would either:
: A) Get Michelle Forbes to come in and play First Officer Ro
: for a few episodes until Visitor has fully recovered from her pregnancy.
: (as you know TPTB had originally wanted her to be DS9's Bajoran
: liason before she decided not to accept the offer)
Granted, I'd like to see Ro again myself, but I can't see this scenario
working. The last time we saw her she wasn't exactly Starfleet-friendly!
: B) Let the baby be the child of Kira and Shaakar, as others
: have suggested, and drop the *stupid* "nervous breakdown" plotline.
: -Sgt. Dow Jones
--
Chris Webb
>Kazuya Uesaki wrote:
>>
>> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
>> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
>> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>> Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>>
>> K. Uesaki
>
>
>When a woman becomes pregnant, fire her.
>
>Haven't we been down that road?
Didn't you see the big flashing SARCASM sign over Kazuya's message?
Regarding the proposed storyline: Personally, I'd prefer that they didn't
show the actress's pregnancy, even if it meant temporarily writing Kira out of
the show. But if Kira has to be pregnant, I could think of worse ways of
writing it in.
Chris
______________________________________________________________________
"Life's a bitch, but the puppies are cute." - Susan Webb Meyer
Elizabeth Thomas
In article <4lkco9$2...@hole.sdsu.edu>, etom...@rohan.sdsu.edu (tomlinson) writes:
|> Susan Duncan (sdu...@nr.infi.net) wrote:
|>
|> : Keiko is pregnant. The actress who plays Kira is pregnant
|> : in real life. Transferring Keiko's pregnancy to Kira seems
|> : like an idea solution.
|>
|> I've been following this ridiculous thread with some amusement
|> ("ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR THIS???" Good Lord...) It does
|> raise an interesting question--how have films worked with (or around)
|> pregnant actresses?
|> For example, Veronica Lake was seven months' pregnant during the filming
|> of Preston Sturges' _Sullivan's Travels_, but you wouldn't know it from
|> the film. I also seem to remember that Dorothy Comingore was several
|> months' pregnant during the filming of _Citizen Kane_.
|> My limited store of movie trivia doesn't contain an example of a film
|> where an actress' pregnancy was worked into the story. I'm sure,
|> though, that many such examples exist.
well people have already mentioned Julia Louis-Dreyfuss (behind the
sofa)- and 2 I didnt know about - Kirstie Alley and Shelley Long on
Cheers. And the actress known as Beverly Crusher :> - torso views
only.
Also - there was the sad story w/ the actress who plays PEg bundy on
MArried w/ children - who incorporated the story into the plot (or
should I say "plot") - only to lose the child - and have the whole
pregnancy be her husbands dream. (I _really_ don;t watch this show -
:> I just read about it somewhere)
And my favorite is Gillian Anderson's (Scully of X-files) pregnancy where
they have her wear baggy trenchcoats and only have torso views. She
only missed one episode - where she is - really- abducted by what
appear at the time to be aliens.
Someone said that it would be hard to do the Julia LD thing with Nana
Visitor since she has more to do on the show - but Scully managed
alright - and she's pretty busy on the show.
I really loved whoevers' idea of firing anyone who mothers (or
fathers ) a child during an Xyear run of a show.
|> I can't help but wince slightly (only slightly) at the _ad hoc_
|> device used to work Nana Visitor's pregnancy into the story. But
|> the _Sullivan's Travels_ option doesn't seem to be a viable one,
|> not for an ongoing series--so DS9's solution looks to be the best
|> one. (But, I don't watch the show, so who am I to say whether it'll
|> work or not?)
|>
|> In any case, here's wishing Ms. Visitor the very best,
|> -et
Ian J. Ball
Tricia B Wilke <twi...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
> Hi--I'm new to this group. And, granted, I've let my viewership of DS9
> and other Trek lapse as of late for various reasons, but come on people!
> This is the Trek universe of logic and credibility. The same universe
> that resurrected Spock
Leading to the worst of the "Star Trek" movies IMHO.
> and put Scotty in a transporter loop. The same
> universe that had Troi have an "immaculate conception" and gave Riker a
> "transporter" twin.
All "Next Generation" episodes, and I grant you that a lot of boneheaded
stuff was done in that series, especially in the first 2, and last 2
seasons of that show.
However, DS9 has, in general, avoided the idiocy of some of "The Next
Generation" and "Voyager".
That is, until now...
> So I don't think this makes DS9 lose any more
> credibility than, say, it did with "Spock's brain."
"Spock's Brain" is universally hailed as one of the 3 worst epiosdes of
"Star Trek" (the original series).
Personally, I would rather DS9 *avoided* making episodes of this quality!
> Trek has always been
> like "well, if it makes a good story, to hell with the science. The
> audience will willingly suspend its disbelief." Since when has the
> majority of science in Trek been credible?
On the contrary, a *lot* of the original series was credible. It's just
that the "Star Trek" franchise has been degrading since the last couple of
seasons of "The Next Generation".
The one exception to that rule had been DS9. I fear that, with this
storyline, DS9 will be going the way of "The Next Generation" near the end
of its run, or worse, like "Voyager"... <shudder>
--
Ian J. Ball | Want my TV episode guides or rec.arts.tv FAQ?
Grad Student, UCLA | http://members.aol.com/IJBall/WWW/IJBall.html
IJB...@aol.com | ftp://members.aol.com/IJBall3/FTP/
i...@ucla.edu | "What to do, with time so short?..."
Matthew Jeremy Blevins
>
> Reply to: Jessica Krucek
>
> WILL I STAND FOR THIS?! **HELL NO!!!**
>
>
> 24 Apr 1996 19:57:36 GMT
> Netcom
> Newsgroups:
> alt.startrek,
> alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,
> rec.arts.startrek.current,
> rec.arts.startrek.fandom,
> rec.arts.startrek.misc,
> rec.arts.sf.tv
> Reply to newsgroup(s)
> References:
> <4lidq2$n...@post.tau.ac.il>
> <4ljuuk$8...@alpha.pcix.com>
>In <4ljuuk$8...@alpha.pcix.com> Laura Gillenwater
><twor...@pop3.nfi.com> writes:
>>
>>Why can't you just wait and *see* if it ends up being bad? So many
>people
>>are assuming that this Kira-carrying-Keiko's baby thing is going to
>>stupid, horrible, etc., but maybe they'll figure out a way to do it
>well.
>
> I've "sat and waited" through ever dumb-ass plotline DS9 has done
>to attract the young men and the TNG viewers.
particular mission (despite being the FLAGSHIP) when something stupid (anomoly,
mind control, etc) happened" like TNG and Voyager esp.
> They sealed off the Gamma Quadrant by making the Dominion a big
>threat. I waited and saw and didn't like it.
> Then, they traded the runabouts for the big SOOPER-KEWL spaceship.
>I waited and saw and realized how much of the action moved to there,
>rather than the station.
I disagree. The station and the runabouts still are very imp. and I
think the Defiant, even without the Dominion prescence, was an important
storytelling device- B5 even copied the idea, with their "White Star" (not to
star THAT flame was again, though- I like B5, too!!) Besides, isn't the fact
that they didn't go anywhere (totally *ucking closeminded, as the "Trek" is
just a metaphor anyway) why people whined to begin with?!
Besides, the Defiant is cool as hell. Finally, a ship with some
character!!
> TPTB added elements of paranoia and bullshit by having Founders
>impersonating every nut and bolt. Still, I watched.
Paranoia is cool. And wasn't that the point, that there really WEREN'T
that many infiltrators?
> They stopped all the Bajor stories on the basis that they didn't
>attract the right kinds of viewers. I grumbled and waited and saw
Not true. I would like more, but do we really want them to pound the
same stuff into the ground?
> They butcher the characters in crap like "Meridian" and "Defiant."
>I waited and watched to see if it would get better.
Oh, yes. TNG NEVER had any poor episodes... and I would remind you that
Tom Riker is from TNG and that Meridian was more like a TNG ep. that a typical
DS9 one.
> They abandoned the serious relationships by sending Keiko and Molly
>to Bajor and killing off Bariel. By now, I was unhappy.
Killing Bariel did stink. Not as much as killing Keh'Lyr, though... And
I think the Keiko and Molly thing does show some things, such as keeping up a
long distance relationship. In fact, DS9 is the only Trek show even to have the
guts to have any real relationships.
> They put that goddamn Klingon on the show, pay the actor more than
>the guys who have busted their butts for three years. The ads put the
>Klingon center stage, move almost all the action to the Defiant, and
>now I'm pissed.
This did annoy me a bit, since it is such an obvious ratings move. But
while the execs made the decision, it was up to the writers to handle it and I
think they've done a good job thus far. He's just part of the crew, they've
developed his character and matured him more than 7 year of TNG did, and he
plays well with Dax and Odo esp.
All the action isn't on the Defiant.
> they put Kira in those heels, low-cut uniform, and the tacky
>make-up and haircut.
Her hair is weird, but I do like the new uniform much better- no fake
shoulders!
They also have Dax throwing herself at that #$$%
>Klingon,
Not really. I think she's messing with him a bit. Actually, it's nice
to finally see Worf having a good friend and companion he can relate to.
and have her wearing low-cut, tight outfits to work out in.
This is a BAD thing?!
Now, I'm livid.
>
> Now, they plan this crap about Kira carrying the O'Briens' kid,
>giving the kid up reluctantly, then *SUFFERING A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN.*
>Now, I'm saying "fuck this shit" and living on fanfic!
>
>>Can't we give them the benefit of the doubt and hold off b*tching
>>until/if it turns out badly? I've never seen so many people make so
>many
>>negative pre-judgements about something they generally like!
>
> I've had all I can take. there's something to be said for the last
>straw!
>
> - Jessica
I agree that they've made a lot of changes to DS9 to attract new
viewers, and I get worried when they start messing with my favorite show. But
as long as the writers handle things well, as they have, I think the show will
just get better. This season was easily the best of Trek ever, and I can't wait
to see what we'll get next. The only problem I see is that there are TOO MANY
story possibilities to address, which is probably why some (such as the Maquis)
have fallen through the cracks at times.
LONG LIVE DEEP SPACE NINE!! (AND THE DEFIANT!!!!)
--
Senor Blevins says: "Beware Lord Kimbote, check under the bed for
Changelings, and Thank You, Drive Thru..."
Angelique
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>From: "Robert C. Levels" <lev...@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
>Newsgroups:
> alt.startrek,alt.tv.star-trek.ds9,rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.
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>Subject: Re: DS9 lovers, ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR THIS???
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:10:55 -0400
>Organization: Yale University
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>Status: N
>
>On 23 Apr 1996, Kazuya Uesaki wrote:
>
>> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
>> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
>> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>> Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
>>
>> K. Uesaki
>>
>>
>careful. Do you advocate firing women for solely on the basis that they
>become pregnant? Whether or not you are in a highly visible position or
>have a "regular role," I think Nana still has the right and privilege to
>have a family without being penalized for it!!! Hello, wake up and join
>the rest of us in the Nineties. Women have rights too!!!!
>
> Very disturbed by this posting,
>
> Bob
Dear Bob,
I'm HOPING the post by Kazuya Uesaki is a troll. I'm
hoping so because I really do hate to think that a grown person is that
ignorant and stupid!
Angel
Sgt. Dow Jones
Strike". But maybe they could find a way around it-have her helping the
Bajorans for her own reasons or have the Bajorans request her as
a temporary replacement. It would make a hell of a teaser-"Captain
Sisko, we have made special arrangements with the provisional
government and with certain . . .factions. May I introduce your new
Bajoran liason officer. . ." and it's Ro!!! They could have her
helping the Provisional Govt. for mysterious reasons. . .something to
do with a top secret Federation/Maquis agreement.
-Sgt. Dow Jones
Nina Lite
In response to
>So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>have ever heard done on ST???
>Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
Well that was very interesting, but:
Nana Visitor is PREGNANT !!!!!!!!
If you have a better idea on how to solve this little large problem (she
is due in
September), I think the writers will appreciated.
People in real life have some Soap Opera situations. It is a Sci-Fi show,
but they are also carbon based life forms with social and medical
problems.
Lighten up.
Nina Light
PS. The baby's father is Siddig El Fadig (Alexander Siddig) better known
as
Dr. Bashir :-) :-)
First they came for the hackers. But I never did anything
illegal with my computer, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the pornographers. But I thought there was
too much smut on the Internet anyway, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the anonymous remailers. But a lot of nasty
stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for the encryption users. But I could never
figure out how to work PGP anyway, so I didn't speak up.
Then they came for me. And by that time there was no one left
to speak up.
--based on a quote from Pastor Martin Niemoller
rbar...@ivory.trentu.ca
>DN (davi...@post.tau.ac.il) wrote:
>: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>: Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>: have ever heard done on ST???
>: Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>
>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
>
> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>
Funny . . . According to last week's episode (O'Brien is Psychicly Jailed
[sorry don't know the name]) Keiko is the one who's pregnant, not Kira! But
for my own $0.02, if Nana Visitor is pregnant, I seriously hope they find a way
to incorporate it into the story. Pregnancies cannot be hidden no matter how
hard they try.>
>
>
>--
>"I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
>proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men."
>-Ben Franklin
>
Allison M. Martens
soap opera? And since when is being a soap opera a bad thing? Forget for
a moment the pejorative term soap, and just think about what Trek really
is. For me, Trek is about exploring the complexities of the human
condition through the lens of a diversified character base. We have
followed Spock's internal conflict between human and vulcan. We have
followed Data's quest to become human. We have watched Sisko come to
terms with the loss of his wife. We have seen Odo search for his people,
his identity. We have watched Bajor struggle to recover and reclaim its
heritage. These are all continuing story/character arcs, and these, at
least to me, are what Trek is all about. This is soap opera. I don't
watch Trek for the technobabble of the week, or the space battle du jour.
I watch Trek because I love the development of the characters, and the way
they interact and deal with each other, and with the strange and
fascinating people and things they encounter. The wonderful challenges to
their minds and consciences, that living on the edge of the final frontier
brings. Trek isn't really traditional science fiction. Trek is a
dramatic serial set against a science fiction backdrop.
I for one love it when the producers challenge the characters with
personal growth and change, in fact I don't think they do it enough.
Maybe you think making Kira a surrogate mother is a lame character
development, that's fine. But getting up in arms about it being soap
operaish seems really disingenuous. Unless of course, we have been
watching different shows over the years. I for one, though, think it will
be interesting to explore how a warrior like Kira adjusts to being
pregnant. In fact, I just think it is interesting to watch how a warrior
like Kira deals with life without a cause to defend.
This is just my perspective. What always fascinates me is how Trek is
loved by different people for totally different reasons. Without the
soapiness, I'd get bored watching Trek. I mean you can only watch the
Enterprise or Defiant win so many battles with the designated bad guy of
the week. And if you want real science fiction you are better served
watching Twilight Zone reruns, or checking out a good Bradbury or Asimov
book from the library.
Just a thought,
- Allison
slacke...@ivory.trentu.ca
>DN (davi...@post.tau.ac.il) wrote:
>: So most of you probably heard what THEY are planning to do in DS9 with
>: Nana's pregnancy. (i.e. - Kira will be carrying Keiko's baby).
>: Do you feel like I do that this is the most ridiculous thing you might
>: have ever heard done on ST???
>: Do you feel that this is turning ST into a bloody soap opera???
>: Do you want ST to become Sci-Fi Bold and The Beautiful??? Do You???
>
> Huh? Did I miss something? Who's "Nana"? How'd she get pregnent? What's
>this have to do with Kira and Keiko?
"Nana" is Nana Visitor (I think I spelled that right), the actress who
plays Kira Nerys on DS9.
>
> I missed last nights episode. Could someone fill me in here?
>
Sorry. I know nothing about said plot line.
VALIS
>From: al...@ccn.cs.dal.ca (Brad Filippone)
>Subject: Re: DS9 lovers, ARE YOU GOING TO STAND FOR THIS???
>Date: 25 Apr 1996 17:39:00 GMT
>John D Cholewa (jcho...@csws13.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
>: Kazuya Uesaki (Kazuya...@ping.be) wrote:
>: : I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
>: : she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
>: : actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>: : Rick Berman should fire her and assign another actress for Kira!!
I can't believe you said that. I really cannot belive you said that. Just
because she is an actress she is deemed ethically infertile? That is apalling.
VALIS
Kazuya Uesaki
>
> I think Nana Visitor is an irresponsible actress to have a baby when
> she has a very important regular role for TV drama. She is a proffesional
> actress and she should be very carefull to avoid this kind of things.
>
> K. Uesaki
I will admit following things first;
1. I am too harsh for Nana that I said "Rick Berman should fire her".
2. I am unfair to her not saying Alexander Sidding has also the equal
responsibility for this matter.
The point I want to say is;
1. They have the responsibility for acting their roles in the ST:DS9
and Nana's pregnancy will affect the future episodes. The character
like Kira needs hard action and if she is pregnant, then it will be
difficult for her to plaing her role.
2. I don't think the woman like Steffi Graf or Jenifer Capriati will
become pregnant before the big tournament like Wimbldon or US open.
And as for Nana, DS9 is her Wimbldon, I think.
3. I cannot understand why the hell Keiko should be pregnant because
it. And why each character should be occupied by one acter or actress.
Of course the character image will be changing, but it may be interesting
to watch the same character acted by another actor(ess).
And I want to say one more thing. It might be honorable for me to be called
as Neanderthal. At least, they did not use the atomic bomb to the almost
defeated enemy in the war.
K. Uesaki
creepygirl
On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Allison M. Martens wrote:
> This entire thread frankly mystifies me. Since when is Star Trek *not* a
> soap opera? And since when is being a soap opera a bad thing? Forget for
> a moment the pejorative term soap, and just think about what Trek really
> is. For me, Trek is about exploring the complexities of the human
> condition through the lens of a diversified character base. We have
> followed Spock's internal conflict between human and vulcan. We have
> followed Data's quest to become human. We have watched Sisko come to
> terms with the loss of his wife. We have seen Odo search for his people,
> his identity. We have watched Bajor struggle to recover and reclaim its
> heritage. These are all continuing story/character arcs, and these, at
> least to me, are what Trek is all about. This is soap opera. I don't
> watch Trek for the technobabble of the week, or the space battle du jour.
I don't care for technobabble or space battles either, and I
think this is a lame idea. Find another straw man to set up. I like
Sisko's struggle to get over the death of his wife. I like Bajor's
struggle to develop. I don't like the surrogacy story. Sorry.
> I watch Trek because I love the development of the characters, and the way
> they interact and deal with each other, and with the strange and
> fascinating people and things they encounter. The wonderful challenges to
> their minds and consciences, that living on the edge of the final frontier
> brings. Trek isn't really traditional science fiction. Trek is a
> dramatic serial set against a science fiction backdrop.
When it's at its best, it is. When it's at its worst IMHO (DS9's
Homelessness episode), it takes hot-button issues, creates a lot of
sound and fury, and delivers no dramatic punch. I think the surrogacy
story could fall into either one of these categories, and the
denouement of the surrogacy story (Kira breaks down), and the lack of
setup (does Kira even talks to Keiko?) make me uneasy.
> I for one love it when the producers challenge the characters with
> personal growth and change, in fact I don't think they do it enough.
> Maybe you think making Kira a surrogate mother is a lame character
> development, that's fine.
Kira could adjust to pregnancy if the child were hers and Shakaar's . . .
glad I have your permission to think it's a lame idea:)
But getting up in arms about it being soap
> operaish seems really disingenuous. Unless of course, we have been
> watching different shows over the years. I for one, though, think it will
> be interesting to explore how a warrior like Kira adjusts to being
> pregnant. In fact, I just think it is interesting to watch how a warrior
> like Kira deals with life without a cause to defend.
It's hard for me to explain exactly what bugs me at the gut level
concerning this storyline. Maybe I'd substitute "emotionally
overwrought" for soap-operaish, but it's hard to define. Kira quietly
marveling at bringing a life into the world for Miles and Keiko would be
interesting. Kira breaking down and being comforted by the Julian
"Empathetic" Bashir is overwrought. Sisko's realization that he "exists
here" (at the death site of his wife) is powerful. Bareil's death, drawn
out to maximize Kira's suffering, going out of its way to make Bareil the
hero and Winn the evil politician, was overwrought. It's hard to explain,
but stealing the line about pornography, I know it when I see it. One element
of soap operas is that some storylines seem manipulative, artificial and
insincere. I'm not objecting to a focus on emotional/personal lives per
se, just personal stories that seemed created solely for plot convenience
or which don't IMHO fit the characters as I see them.
Of course, I thought "Hard Time" was going to suck, and I was most
pleasantly surprised. Hopefully the same thing will happen with the
surrogacy story, but the writers are going to have to work awfully hard
to convince picky, persnickety me.
> This is just my perspective. What always fascinates me is how Trek is
> loved by different people for totally different reasons. Without the
> soapiness, I'd get bored watching Trek. I mean you can only watch the
> Enterprise or Defiant win so many battles with the designated bad guy of
> the week. And if you want real science fiction you are better served
> watching Twilight Zone reruns, or checking out a good Bradbury or Asimov
> book from the library.
As I've said before, I care not a whit whether DS9 includes real
science fiction, else I'd have torn my hair out in disgust years ago.:)
If you want to see drama, with terrific acting, and generally
cliche-free, nonoverwrought writing, you could do no better than watching
_Homicide, Life on the Streets_. It's the yardstick by which I measure DS9.
> Just a thought,
> - Allison
--creepygirl
Laura Gillenwater
[snip]
>|>how have films worked with (or around)
>|> pregnant actresses?
>
>well people have already mentioned Julia Louis-Dreyfuss (behind the
>sofa)- and 2 I didnt know about - Kirstie Alley and Shelley Long on
>Cheers. And the actress known as Beverly Crusher :> - torso views
>only.
I can't remember whether it was Shelley or Kirstie, but I do remember an
episode of Cheers where one of them spends the whole time in a hole in
the floor with just her head sticking out.... I forget why the character
got into that predicament, but they wrote it to cover Shelley's/Kirstie's
pregnancy. Also, I do remember Shelley walking around with a drink tray
in front of her stomach quite a bit during that time...
Laura
Bill Henley
"Sgt. Dow Jones" suggests that the answer to this Kira contro-
versy would be to hire Michelle Forbes to come in for a few
episodes as Acting First Officer Ro, since the Kira character
on DS9 was originally supposed to be Ro anyway.
Just one slight problem with that... last time we saw Ro Laren,
in the penultimate TNG episode "Preemptive Strike", she joined
the Maquis and betrayed the Enterprise. I'd say it's considera-
bly more credible that Starfleet would allow a pregnant Kira
to remain on duty on DS9, than that they would offer Kira's
post to a known turncoat and wanted criminal. (Well, maybe
if DS9 somehow got lost out in the Delta Quadrant and half
the crew was killed...:)
Myself, I hold the politically incorrect opinion that if a
woman holding a job becomes pregnant, and the pregnancy makes
her genuinely unable to do the job she is being paid to do,
the employer is within his/her rights to fire the employee
who is not doing her job. However, I don't think this
applies in this case; I think Nana Visitor can credibly
continue to portray Kira regardless of her pregnancy.
--
"Still I persist in wondering whether folly must always be our
nemesis." (Edgar Pangborn, author of DAVY, an unsung great book)
******* William Henley, aka Mr. Bill (ID aa396), Asst. Sysop,
Cleveland Free-Net Science Fiction & Fantasy SIG