Making CC's life a Living Hell..;)
Wildcard
major snippage
Kate D. wrote:
>> Chris Carter
>>doesn't care about Space; he's concerned with The X-Files and Milennium."
>>I asked if Matoian and Carter are buddies; he said yes, of course, that's
>>how the business works! (Didn't ask if this was before or after X-Files
>>was moved to Sundays.)
Jane queried:
>Question for debate - how can we, as a group, make Chris Carter's life a
>Living Hell??
>
I didn't intend to post this suggestion to the list originally, but the
situation has changed enough I don't think we have much to lose.
Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
Well, we can do to him what he did to us, namely, target *his* show,
'Milennium'. And how can we do that? By writing letters, of course. Not to
Matoain, but to the show's sponsors. Fortunately, 'Milennium' sounds like it
is ideally suited to the type of 'letters of complaint' that strike dread in
sponsor's hearts..
Anyone who reads a newspaper or watches the news is aware of the political
clout wielded by such groups as 'The Christian Coalition', et al. They may
be a minority, but they are vocal and they can mobilize their members at a
moment's notice. I am *not* suggesting we pass ourselves off as members of
this or any other group; that would be lieing. *But*, we can co-opt their
buzz-words in our letters of complaint and let sponsors draw their own
conclusions.
What I would do is write to the sponsors, complaining about how 'Milennium'
denigrates 'family values', encourages violence and drug use among young
people,(whatever seems appropriate after viewing an eps.), disrespect for
authority, disrespect for this country, and perhaps even has Satantic
undertones. Sponsors do *not* want their products associated with something
that gets these kind of complaints, particularly very 'family oriented'
companies like McDonalds, Proctor & Gamble, etc. Nor do they want to be
'targeted' by 'family values' groups. If they truly have the power and
influence we believe they do, it could make a difference between renewal and
cancellation for CC's new 'baby'.
WARNING: should you decide to do this, DO NOT under any circumstances
mention that you are a fan of SAAB, a member of this list, etc.! That could
not only make the list look bad, but they would conclude it was simply 'sour
grapes' on our part.
********************************************************
Kate-M
Elroy-L in irc
wild...@empirenet.com
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Mary Southern
Wildcard wrote:
> Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
>'Milennium' denigrates 'family values', encourages violence and drug
>use among young people,(whatever seems appropriate after viewing an
>eps.), disrespect for authority, disrespect for this country, and
>perhaps even has Satantic undertones. Sponsors do *not* want their
>products associated with something that gets these kind of complaints,
>particularly very 'family oriented' companies like McDonalds, Proctor &
>Gamble, etc. Nor do they want to be 'targeted' by 'family values'
>it could make a difference between renewal and cancellation for CC's
>new 'baby'.
I think this is an excellent idea...I'm behind it all the way.
> WARNING: should you decide to do this, DO NOT under any circumstances
> mention that you are a fan of SAAB, a member of this list, etc.!
That goes without saying. We should write as innocent, repelled viewers
who are afraid for the influence such drivel would have on our children
and the minds of teenagers. Which, depending on the content of the show,
might very well be true! The previews didn't exactly make me want to
tune in as soon as it got on the air. It looked to be the stuff that
nightmares are made of.
- Mary aka Spacefan
Mike
Gosh... remind me not to ever get on the wrong side of you guys.
Mike M.
----------
> From: Wildcard <wild...@e2.empirenet.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <spa...@mail.microserve.net>
> Subject: Making CC's life a Living Hell..;)
> Date: Sunday, June 16, 1996 12:06 PM
>
[snip]
> Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
> Well, we can do to him what he did to us, namely, target *his* show,
> 'Milennium'. And how can we do that? By writing letters, of course. Not to
> Matoain, but to the show's sponsors. Fortunately, 'Milennium' sounds like it
> is ideally suited to the type of 'letters of complaint' that strike dread in
> sponsor's hearts..
>
> Anyone who reads a newspaper or watches the news is aware of the political
> clout wielded by such groups as 'The Christian Coalition', et al. They may
> be a minority, but they are vocal and they can mobilize their members at a
--
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Black Fox (aka: Stephen Gideon)
> > Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
We could all pitch in a dollar and have someone beat him up for us..
:)
Stephen
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Wildcard
>> > Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
>
>We could all pitch in a dollar and have someone beat him up for us..
>
>:)
>
>Stephen
This is what I like about men! Give 'em a problem, and by golly they come
up with a sensible, down-to-earth solution. Nothing fancy, just get the job
done. Heck yeah, I'd pitch in a buck for this 'worthy cause', too!;)
(And I hope Pat realizes we are JUST KIDDING!!;)
********************************************************
Kate-M
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Rebecca Morris
At 04:01 PM 6/16/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Gosh... remind me not to ever get on the wrong side of you guys.
Yeah, and has anyone had the courtesy to ask Mr Carter his side of this
issue. I mean, as far as I know its pure speculation that he had anything
to do with S:AAB's lack of renewal. I would hate to conduct a get-back
campaign against an innocent bystander. Am I being to much of a Pollyanna?
rebec
Jeff Hanoff
I totally agree with you Rebecca, we have to be sure not to let our anger
cloud our objectivity, we must make sure our targets are the correct ones
before we let loose a volley of flames and threats at a potential
bystander, we have to use our heads if we are going to win
<S> Jeff Hanoff
'chig killer'
Kim & Kathy Hale
was.
"CHIG HIDE"
Keating Willcox
>> > Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
>
>We could all pitch in a dollar and have someone beat him up for us..
>
>:)
uncalled for, out of character for this list, and perhaps libelous
C.C.
On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Black Fox (aka: Stephen Gideon) wrote:
> > > Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
>
> We could all pitch in a dollar and have someone beat him up for us..
>
> :)
>
Huh? What? AAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
hehehehehe
Tigger
On 16 Jun 96 at 22:10, Rebecca Morris wrote:
> Yeah, and has anyone had the courtesy to ask Mr Carter his side of this
> issue. I mean, as far as I know its pure speculation that he had anything
> to do with S:AAB's lack of renewal. I would hate to conduct a get-back
> campaign against an innocent bystander. Am I being to much of a Pollyanna?
> rebec
You're not alone here Rebec. Also by trying to hurt the shows that Chris
Carter is involved in, you'll also be hurting Glen Morgan & James Wong since they're
now part of the writing team. I don't think any of us want to do that.
Tigger
Black Fox (aka: Stephen Gideon)
How about we all write the stars of other FOX shows asking them for help
bringing the show back. Tell them how much you love SAAB, and that if we
could get support from them maybe FOX would listen. Write the Sliders
cast, write the X-Files actors, write the shows that appeal to people who
have half a brain.
Stephen
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Elad Haber
>> Yeah, and has anyone had the courtesy to ask Mr Carter his side of this
>> issue. I mean, as far as I know its pure speculation that he had anything
>> to do with S:AAB's lack of renewal. I would hate to conduct a get-back
>> campaign against an innocent bystander. Am I being to much of a Pollyanna?
>> rebec
>
>You're not alone here Rebec. Also by trying to hurt the shows that Chris
>Carter is involved in, you'll also be hurting Glen Morgan & James Wong
since they're
>now part of the writing team. I don't think any of us want to do that.
I defintly agree..Chris Carter is not the enemy here! neither is Sliders,
LA Firefighters, Kindred, Millenium, or the X-Files..If there's a bad guy in
this story its the FOX execs..they decided to cancel S:AAB and they did
everything else which has led to us trying to save S:AAB.. We should put
blame where it belongs..on John Matoian..:p
Elad Haber
zaa...@earthlink.net
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Wildcard
> I defintly agree..Chris Carter is not the enemy here! neither is Sliders,
>LA Firefighters, Kindred, Millenium, or the X-Files..If there's a bad guy in
>this story its the FOX execs..they decided to cancel S:AAB and they did
>everything else which has led to us trying to save S:AAB.. We should put
>blame where it belongs..on John Matoian..:p
>Elad Haber
Unfortunately, CC *is* 'the enemy'. I know we all want to be 'fair', but
you can't discount the facts of this situation.
1. Sliders was cancelled. Sliders came back. Are there more Sliders's fans?
Are they more vocal, more persistant? Nope.
2. Kindred was cancelled. Kindred is coming back. Let's talk about Kindred
for a moment. Someone posted that the show was off for less than--what was
it, two months?--before being picked up again. That *really* gave its fans
time to mobilize, write letters, call sponsors, etc. Uh huh. *Right*.
Wonder what the numbers for Kindred's fan base are? It's possible, given
the type of show it is, that all of the weirdos crawled out from under their
rocks to watch..but write letters? make calls? I don't think so.
3. Money: FOX hands us this line as a rationale for cancelling SAAB. The
*fact* is, SAAB's replacement, LA Firefighters, costs nearly as much,
and--not counting James "Gimpy Boy" Morrison and his proclivity for
accidents;)--will probably go higher than SAAB in insurance costs alone.
4. Ratings: someone here posted that 'Ray Butt's, a rerun, garnered almost
as big a ratings share as (I think) a first-run eps of ST: Voyager. Not bad,
for a show with 'no audience'.
5. The Chris Carter connection: Anyone who's been following the X-Files
newsgroup since the show's third season began *knows* the level of
disappointment expressed by fans. And if you've watched the show this
season, you know that, with a couple exceptions, the stories have been
pretty mediocre. It's well known that Chris Carter follows the newsgroup
closely, so he's aware of how fans feel.
6. From the start, SAAB was given virtually no advertising, a rotten time
slot, a bouncing schedule even my cat couldn't follow, and pre-empt after
pre-empt. Why?
Doesn't every studio *want* every one of its programs to succeed/make money?
Of course they do. But for some reason, FOX appears to have felt otherwise
about SAAB.
Given the *facts*, everything would point to a renewal for SAAB, or at least
its being picked up as a mid-season replacement. Yet, FOX has informed us it
is *dead*, in spite of all the evidence that it *does* have a strong fan
base, sponsor support, etc. Again, why? In business, money is the bottom
line--and when that bottom line is ignored as blatantly as it has been in
SAAB's case, you don't usually have to look much further than politics for
the reason.
Think of it as a jig saw puzzle. Put the pieces together.
Or maybe just ask yourself, who stands to *benefit* from SAAB's
cancellation? There's only one person, and that's Chris Carter.
********************************************************
Kate-M
Elroy-L in irc
wild...@empirenet.com
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Elad Haber
At 01:27 AM Kate wrote:
>2. Kindred was cancelled. Kindred is coming back. Let's talk about Kindred
>for a moment. Someone posted that the show was off for less than--what was
>it, two months?--before being picked up again. That *really* gave its fans
>time to mobilize, write letters, call sponsors, etc. Uh huh. *Right*.
>Wonder what the numbers for Kindred's fan base are? It's possible, given
>the type of show it is, that all of the weirdos crawled out from under their
>rocks to watch..but write letters? make calls? I don't think so.
Personally, I'm a Kindred fan although I haven't been to any of the
webpages or newsgroups or anything like that..so I'm glad its coming back
but I really don't understand how that happened..I dont think anyone
understands..It could be an exec at showtime was a really big fan of both
Kindred and Masquerde books..
>4. Ratings: someone here posted that 'Ray Butt's, a rerun, garnered almost
>as big a ratings share as (I think) a first-run eps of ST: Voyager. Not bad,
>for a show with 'no audience'.
Well, I can understand that..Voyager sucks :p (sorry, just a joke..:))
>5. The Chris Carter connection: Anyone who's been following the X-Files
>newsgroup since the show's third season began *knows* the level of
>disappointment expressed by fans. And if you've watched the show this
>season, you know that, with a couple exceptions, the stories have been
>pretty mediocre. It's well known that Chris Carter follows the newsgroup
>closely, so he's aware of how fans feel.
Actually, I am a big X-Files fan..and I dont follow the newsgroups
(although maybe I should)..but I too am disappointed by the third season..So
what does that have to do with S:AAB being canceled? It is because Glen and
James were not there? I thought M&W only worked on the first season? I can't
remmember..I never really followed what it said under the Written by part..
>6. From the start, SAAB was given virtually no advertising, a rotten time
>slot, a bouncing schedule even my cat couldn't follow, and pre-empt after
>pre-empt. Why?
>Doesn't every studio *want* every one of its programs to succeed/make money?
>Of course they do. But for some reason, FOX appears to have felt otherwise
>about SAAB.
Thats what I was saying..this is the execs fault! not Chris Carters...and I
refuse to believe that Matoian is just a puppet for CC..Execs are
puppets..To ratings, and sponsors, and statitics..not their producers..No,
the reason S:AAB got this treatment is because network execs don't believe
in SF shows..It happened to Earth 2 at NBC..to American Gothic (well, I dont
know..that was more horror then SF) at CBS..and now its happenning to S:AAB
at FOX.. And the thing that kills me the most is that I thought FOX execs
were different..after keeping The X-Files and Sliders..I thought FOX was the
best place for SF shows.. Obviously, I was wrong..
>Given the *facts*, everything would point to a renewal for SAAB, or at least
>its being picked up as a mid-season replacement. Yet, FOX has informed us it
>is *dead*, in spite of all the evidence that it *does* have a strong fan
>base, sponsor support, etc. Again, why? In business, money is the bottom
>line--and when that bottom line is ignored as blatantly as it has been in
>SAAB's case, you don't usually have to look much further than politics for
>the reason.
>
>Or maybe just ask yourself, who stands to *benefit* from SAAB's
>cancellation? There's only one person, and that's Chris Carter.
Your right..but after following the X-Files from the very beginning..Its
diffucult for me to just say "This all Chris Carter's fault..He, like Cancer
Man before him, sat back and controlled everything from the shadows".. No, I
can't except that.. Its too easy.. T.V. is a risky business, some shows make
it..some shows don't..There's many factors there..The sponsors..timeslot
plays a big part..the amount the network put in to it..Look at Murder, She
Wrote.. It was watched by millions every week for years..Then suddenly, CBS
moves it and the ratings drop so much, it gets cancelled..It just happens..
And blaming people is not the answer to getting S:AAB back..
Elad Haber
zaa...@earthlink.net
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Darryl Chronister
Rebecca Morris <rmo...@iu.net> wrote:
>Yeah, and has anyone had the courtesy to ask Mr Carter his side of this
>issue. I mean, as far as I know its pure speculation that he had anything
>to do with S:AAB's lack of renewal. I would hate to conduct a get-back
>campaign against an innocent bystander. Am I being to much of a Pollyanna?
>rebec
As I understand it, one of the more unusual things about Chris Carter
and the X-Files is that he monitored the fans' responses to and
desires for the show, presumably via the Internet and newsgroups
dedicated to the X-Files, and used that feedback to influence how he
created the show.
Has anyone considered trying to get his attention via posts to the
X-Files newsgroups? If we did post, would we want to harass him about
Space or as Rebecca suggests determine his role in the fate of Space?
-- Darryl (dchro...@sirinc.com)
Mike
----------
> From: Wildcard <wild...@e2.empirenet.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <spa...@mail.microserve.net>
> Date: Monday, June 17, 1996 1:27 AM
>
>
> Given the *facts*, everything would point to a renewal for SAAB, or at least
> its being picked up as a mid-season replacement. Yet, FOX has informed us it
> is *dead*, in spite of all the evidence that it *does* have a strong fan
> base, sponsor support, etc. Again, why? In business, money is the bottom
> line--and when that bottom line is ignored as blatantly as it has been in
> SAAB's case, you don't usually have to look much further than politics for
> the reason.
>
>
> cancellation? There's only one person, and that's Chris Carter.
Yeah..whoohooo!! I am so frustrated, that at this point I really don't care
whether Carter is "innocent" or not. I need to vent my anger at someone and
Carter is as good a choice as any. I think everyone will agree that The
X-files is the most watched show on FOX and if Carter says that he wants
Morgan and Wong back to increase the ratings, FOX will give them to him. "The
Truth is Out There".... you just have to look a little harder and let your
imagination run a little wilder.
Mike M.
ICAN II
Having jumped to the wrong conclusion too many times, I'll wait until the
dust settles a bit and we can hopefully get the facts. Then I'll act in
the appropriate manner.
Pam G.
Chad Carlock
>>> > Jane asked 'What can we do to make Chris Carter's life a Living Hell?'
>>
>>We could all pitch in a dollar and have someone beat him up for us..
>>
>>:)
>
No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
enough.)
Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
is not enough. :)
Cpt. Schmoopy "bring on the bar exam!" Frog, J.D.
**************************************************************************
* Chad Carlock * "And now for the most dangerous part of our *
* Juris Doctor at large * journey ... the return to civilization." *
* cwca...@ucdavis.edu * -Disneyland Jungle Cruise *
**************************************************************************
Black Fox (aka: Stephen Gideon)
Chad Carlock wrote:
> No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
> that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
> enough.)
>
> Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
> Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
> is not enough. :)
>
> Cpt. Schmoopy "bring on the bar exam!" Frog, J.D.
Well, we already know most of us don't care for Chris Carter anymore.
But it would be hard to point a finger at just who damaged his rep, him,
FOX, or someone else..
:)
Stephen
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Rebecca Morris
At 04:17 PM 6/18/96 -0400, you wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
>that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
>enough.)
>
>Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
>Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
>is not enough. :)
>
>Cpt. Schmoopy "bring on the bar exam!" Frog, J.D.
Go, Schmoopy. I was hoping some lawyer type would address this issue. By
the way, is it true that lawyers are the second profession that's paid to
lie? don't hit me.
rebec
Greyhound
>How about we all write the stars of other FOX shows asking them for help
>bringing the show back. Tell them how much you love SAAB, and that if we
>could get support from them maybe FOX would listen. Write the Sliders
>cast, write the X-Files actors, write the shows that appeal to people who
>have half a brain.
>
>Stephen
My main problem with this idea: Do you have any IDEA how long it takes for
those letters to reach them? If they're on location or something, and have
tons of mail to wade through, it could be more than a year before they read
your letter. If they read it at all. Of course, you could write, and
maybe the fight will still be on when your letter's recieved.
Col. Lisa "Greyhound" Kohles
129th Irregulars
Hellhounds USS Saratoga
Space: Above & Beyond
Semper Fi. Always Faithful...my friend.
------------------------------------------
Anubis -- anu...@mindwell.com
------------------------------------------
Keating Willcox
>Chad Carlock wrote:
>> No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
>> that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
>> enough.)
>>
>> Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
>> Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
>> is not enough. :)
You are correct. Libel or slander is not what has happened, but making
threats to a public figure to hurt them or stalk them, what is the informal
term for that crime?
Linda
>>Chad Carlock wrote:
>>> No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
>>> that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
>>> enough.)
>>>
>>> Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
>>> Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
>>> is not enough. :)
>
>You are correct. Libel or slander is not what has happened, but making
>threats to a public figure to hurt them or stalk them, what is the informal
>term for that crime?
2-5 years
Linda ;-)
Chad Carlock
[I babbled]
>>No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
>>that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
>>enough.)
>>Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
>>Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
>>is not enough. :)
>>
[Rebecca responded]
>Go, Schmoopy. I was hoping some lawyer type would address this issue. By
>the way, is it true that lawyers are the second profession that's paid to
>lie? don't hit me.
>rebec
No, rebec... we're the first. ;) You must have us confused with someone
else. <vbg>
Muppet Love, froggy style,
Cpt. Schmoopy Frog, 72nd Squadron (Pacific Coast)
*********************************************************************
* Chad Carlock * "I was thinking of the immortal words *
* Juris Doctor at large * of Socrates, who said "I drank what?'"*
* cwca...@ucdavis.edu * -Val Kilmer, Real Genius *
*********************************************************************
Chad Carlock
>>Chad Carlock wrote:
>>> No, it's closest to solicitation (no, not *that* kind of solicitation!)...
>>> that is, asking someone to commit a crime. (But don't worry, it's not close
>>> enough.)
>>>
>>> Libel is a printed defamatory statement that damages someone's reputation.
>>> Futhermore, "defamatory" requires an assertion of fact; mere name-calling
>>> is not enough. :)
>
>threats to a public figure to hurt them or stalk them, what is the informal
>term for that crime?
Bad manners. ;) Seriously, though, unless we're talking about actual
stalking or something of that sort, one can say *pretty much* anything
about a public figure (there are, of course, exceptions so us lawyers have
something to do with ourselves, but I won't bore anyone with them). It
could be conspiracy if more than one person _agrees_ to commit a crime
against someone, or assault if for some reason the threats are serious
enough to put the public figure in "imminent apprehension" of some nasty
result. But making idle threats is usually not a crime.
Note: I'm still not technically a lawyer, and so this is not legal advice.
And this is NOT a license to go out and isnult/threaten anyone. But you
have to go relatively far for a crime to be committed.
Cpt, Schmoopy Frog, J.D.