"St. Christopher Cathedral" in Montreal
Martin Phipps
Cathedral". There's a "Christ Church Cathedral" but that wasn't it:
Christ Church Cathedral is a much smaller than the church we saw. It
also has a mall and a subway running underneath. As it turns out, it
isn't even Catholic: it's Anglican. (See http://www.montreal.anglican.org/cathedral/
)
I thought at first that the church might have been Notre Dame Basilica
but Notre Dame Basilica is actually slightly bigger than the church we
saw. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre-Dame_Basilica) Mind you,
I'm forgetting that this show is shot in Vancouver and not in Kansas.
The opening where Clark is walking in was probably some church in
Vancouver. Notice that when Chloe made her grand entrance that the
church was suddenly much smaller and looked like an ordinary set. The
producers apparently only got permission to shoot a single scene
there.
I did a google search and there are St. Christopher Cathedrals in
Cyprus, the Netherlands and Australia so they easily could have used
the name of an actual church if they wanted to. Of course, it dawns
on me that there was absolutely no point using an actual church as the
point of the show was to suspend disbelief long enough to make the
viewer think St. Christopher Church was a real church in Montreal. I
knew there was no such church in Montreal but I was stupid enough to
think that they'd actually shot something at a location outside of
Vancouver. I should have known better: they don't have the budget for
that sort of thing. All things considered, they did an okay job,
really, of making it look as though they had spent some cash on this
episode.
Martin
Ric
"Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
"they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
to."
St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
Martin Phipps
> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
> to."
>
> St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
Martin
BC
Maybe the "jungle" setting should have been a clue -- when Clark went to
Central America looking for Fine -- a few potted palms dotted the British
Columbia fern forest floor but the jacketed locals and their frozen breath
were a give-away as to where it was shot.
Julio Laredo
"Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote in message news:4826ee84$0$11639$607e...@cv.net...
And didn't Chloe also say that there was only one St Christopher's cathedral
in the entire world?
Anim8rFSK
"Julio Laredo" <jrlar...@comcast.net> wrote:
No, she said it was the only one on the entire continent, which was even
dumber -- who said it had to be on a church on this continent?
--
Star Trek 09:
No Shat, No Show.
KalElFan
news:ANIM8Rfsk-BA1B8...@news.west.cox.net...
The Traveler being on this continent, and the Kawatche caves and so on,
and Smallville of course, and every member of the Veritas group, made it
a reasonable assumption. Also, "cathedral" typically means not just a big
church but *the* major church in a diocese, the church of the Bishop for
that diocese. So the various St. Christopher churches that show up on a
search wouldn't count as a cathedral, and it may be that there is literally
no cathedral in the world called St. Christopher's. In New York it'd be
St. Patrick's, Toronto it'd be St. Michael's, Montreal it'd be Notre Dame
and so on. But the show needed a St. Christopher's Cathedral so they
made one up and put it in Montreal.
The show's mythology is a mess, or disjointed as I agreed in the other
thread. But I'll say again that if you were listening carefully to all of
the dialogue in this episode it tied everything together as well as one
could possibly do it at this point in the series. Holly Harold, who may
be the best writer on the show (faint praise, yes), wrote it at what would
have been a time they didn't know they were renewed. It was like she
was trying to wrap the series up by alluding to the huge amount of very
disjointed, unexplained nonsense, and again I defy anyone to come up
with 43 minutes that could have done that better. If you've been aware
of the series "Clex" metaphor since the start, the episode also alluded
back to the very first episode with the branding of Clark, only this time
it was Lex and Clark both.
Picardo's character changing on a dime was criticized, but a zealot who
was waiting all his life and expecting a savior of sorts, who was on a
mission to protect not just that savior/Traveler but prevent him from ever
being misused, might indeed have turned as he did. He had kryptonite
at the ready for just such a purpose, and was ready to kill the Traveler
on the spot if he showed weakness against a threat like Lex.
The biggest problem with the episode for me was Chloe-Jimmy, which
should have died long ago, just as last week it was the Alternate Clark-
Lois stuff. It is to puke, and the prospect of Lois & Clark next season
may have me not even bothering to record the show.
BC
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote in message
news:68okgfF...@mid.individual.net...
However the device in Lex's fireplace mantle was originally hidden when the
castle was in Ireland and that isn't on this continent. And a stone was in
China and Isobel was from France. There was no reason to think that St.
Christopher's should be in America. It could just as well be in Ireland.
>
> The show's mythology is a mess, or disjointed as I agreed in the other
> thread. But I'll say again that if you were listening carefully to all of
> the dialogue in this episode it tied everything together as well as one
> could possibly do it at this point in the series. Holly Harold, who may
> be the best writer on the show (faint praise, yes), wrote it at what would
> have been a time they didn't know they were renewed. It was like she
> was trying to wrap the series up by alluding to the huge amount of very
> disjointed, unexplained nonsense, and again I defy anyone to come up
> with 43 minutes that could have done that better. If you've been aware
> of the series "Clex" metaphor since the start, the episode also alluded
> back to the very first episode with the branding of Clark, only this time
> it was Lex and Clark both.
But saying that they can't explain Green K that has been around for 500
years -- or the Isobel and Lana Lang connection or how they were connected
to the transferrence stone/symbol. Why was Teague's son and wife after the
stones and not him? This story is full of holes.
>
> Picardo's character changing on a dime was criticized, but a zealot who
> was waiting all his life and expecting a savior of sorts, who was on a
> mission to protect not just that savior/Traveler but prevent him from ever
> being misused, might indeed have turned as he did. He had kryptonite
> at the ready for just such a purpose, and was ready to kill the Traveler
> on the spot if he showed weakness against a threat like Lex.
Picardo was Jason Teague's father and it was established that he was a
wealthy and well respected attorney if I remember correctly and the crazy
devoted monk-killer character doesn't fit. Attorneys are anything but
emotional. So he's been waiting devotedly for the Traveler for 22+ years?
And in that time built an alter to kill him? This writing really sucks.
>
> The biggest problem with the episode for me was Chloe-Jimmy, which
> should have died long ago, just as last week it was the Alternate Clark-
> Lois stuff. It is to puke, and the prospect of Lois & Clark next season
> may have me not even bothering to record the show.
I thought when Chloe refused to take a few minutes to eat breakfast with her
live in boyfriend that he should have shoved a waffle in her Belgian face.
But it is poor writing continuity -- one ep they are lovey -- next they are
on the outs -- next they question then the kiss and make up without
explanation. At least there were some reasons why Clark and Lana were in
and out -- we get nothing with Jimmy/ Chloe. The show is just too
shallow -- the characters are becoming flat especially the guest stars. And
as I predicted the show doesn't work with Kara around unless the story is
about her. So they contrive ways to get her off screen, off planet, out of
our dimension to give Clark some breathing room. The one main thing that
they avoid is making Clark a real hero. As Clark, his deeds must be
secret -- he can't fly -- he can't become Superman and so the show is at a
dead end and can only continue when it is about somebody else.
Anim8rFSK
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ANIM8Rfsk-BA1B8...@news.west.cox.net...
>
> > In article <F6-dnU7cD9cQY7vV...@comcast.com>,
> > "Julio Laredo" <jrlar...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote in message
> >> news:4826ee84$0$11639$607e...@cv.net...
> >> >
> >> > "Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they
> >> > wanted to."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
> >> >
> >>
> >> And didn't Chloe also say that there was only one St Christopher's
> >> cathedral in the entire world?
> >
> > No, she said it was the only one on the entire continent, which was even
> > dumber -- who said it had to be on a church on this continent?
>
> The Traveler being on this continent, and the Kawatche caves and so on,
> and Smallville of course, and every member of the Veritas group, made it
> a reasonable assumption.
Not in any way, shape, or form, given that the clues were manufactured
on other continents.
The Citizen
You have to understand that this episode's was Smallville "homage" to
"The Da Vinci Code". I've never read the book (saw the movie, though)
but I picked up on it pretty quickly.
The writers invented "St. Christopher Cathedral" to connect it to this
season's "Traveller" storyline and placed it in Montreal as the
closest thing to Paris in North America.
--
The Citizen
"And how can we win when fools can be kings?"
Anim8rFSK
The Citizen <citi...@nospam.ca> wrote:
Is THAT what they were going for? Sheesh.
Should have put it at the Eiffel Tower in Vegas or Disneyworld. :)
Martin Phipps
> I thought when Chloe refused to take a few minutes to eat breakfast with her
> live in boyfriend that he should have shoved a waffle in her Belgian face.
> But it is poor writing continuity -- one ep they are lovey -- next they are
> on the outs -- next they question then the kiss and make up without
> explanation. At least there were some reasons why Clark and Lana were in
> and out -- we get nothing with Jimmy/ Chloe. The show is just too
> shallow
Trust me, this is how real couples behave behind doors. People argue
one minute and are lovey dovey the next.
Martin
Martin Phipps
> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8R...@cox.net> wrote in message
>
> news:ANIM8Rfsk-BA1B8...@news.west.cox.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <F6-dnU7cD9cQY7vVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdn...@comcast.com>,
> > "Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote in message
> >>news:4826ee84$0$11639$607e...@cv.net...
>
>
> >> > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they
> >> > wanted to."
>
> >> > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> >> And didn't Chloe also say that there was only one St Christopher's
> >> cathedral in the entire world?
>
> > No, she said it was the only one on the entire continent, which was even
> > dumber -- who said it had to be on a church on this continent?
>
> The Traveler being on this continent, and the Kawatche caves and so on,
> and Smallville of course, and every member of the Veritas group, made it
> a reasonable assumption. Also, "cathedral" typically means not just a big
> church but *the* major church in a diocese, the church of the Bishop for
> that diocese. So the various St. Christopher churches that show up on a
> search wouldn't count as a cathedral, and it may be that there is literally
> no cathedral in the world called St. Christopher's. In New York it'd be
> St. Patrick's, Toronto it'd be St. Michael's, Montreal it'd be Notre Dame
> and so on. But the show needed a St. Christopher's Cathedral so they
> made one up and put it in Montreal.
It didn't have to be a cathedral. Any church could have been a
"sanctuary". St. Christopher's Episcopal Church in Wichita, Kansas
would have done nicely. And there are St. Christopher Cathedrals in
New Zealand, Australia and Cyprus. Here's a nice link I found.
http://www.ucc.ie/milmart/chrismodern.html
As you can see, there appears to be no church in North America named
"St. Christopher's Cathedral". (The list is incomplete.) Anyway,
this could easily have been fixed with Chloe saying "The only St.
Christopher Church I know is the one in Montreal." As the link shows,
there are a lot of churches closer to home that would have done
nicely.
Martin
BC
And what's wrong with Paris, Kentucky or that glass pyramid in Memphis? :-)
Ric
"My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
Then try the History Channel...this is Sci-Fi
Edward McArdle
<327ff464-256b-424e...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Phipps <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
One other thing of not much relevance...
The Catholic Church recently decided that there is no evidence that
there ever was a St Christopher, so they have struck him off the list!
--
my URL,
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mcardle
Martin Phipps
Alright, so apparently you didn't get it. No big deal. This is
usenet... not a hall of academia. I can expect to meet a few morons
along the way.
Martin
Martin Phipps
> In article
> <327ff464-256b-424e-b533-bab8c8fee...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 9:02 pm, "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote:
> > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
> > > to."
>
> > > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> > My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
> > they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
>
>
> The Catholic Church recently decided that there is no evidence that
> there ever was a St Christopher, so they have struck him off the list!
As there's no compelling evidence that Jesus Christ himself ever
existed then they might as well strike their whole religion. :)
Martin
Preacher
Martin
Well, if you put it that way, there isn't really any proof that either you
or I exist either...... :)
Steve
Preacher
end-of-the-world-nuke-launch scene (as a previous post mentioned, they just
used the same footage from Terminator 3), what makes you think they're gonna
spend money to come film in Montreal when they're all based in Vancouver?
Hell, they didn't even spend money to go a few hundred miles south to film
the football field scene (from "Recruit") in a stadium that didn't have a 55
yard line for Pete's sake.....
Steve
"Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b8d18940-231b-4175...@u6g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
BC
*Real couples can also slap and beat each other not to mention yelling but
we would hope that people of the calibre of Chloe and Jimmy would act in a
more civil manner. Their actions are more like teens than young adults.
BC
"Preacher" <sdean5...@N0SPAMcogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:g09cfv$1dh$1...@news.datemas.de...
> They didn't even have the budget to do their own
> end-of-the-world-nuke-launch scene (as a previous post mentioned, they
> just used the same footage from Terminator 3), what makes you think
> they're gonna spend money to come film in Montreal when they're all based
> in Vancouver?
>
> Hell, they didn't even spend money to go a few hundred miles south to film
> the football field scene (from "Recruit") in a stadium that didn't have a
> 55 yard line for Pete's sake.....
Damn I missed that -- good catch. Isn't this show amazing?
Preacher
"BC" <bcph...@att.net> wrote in message
news:n5XVj.2951$7k7....@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Preacher" <sdean5...@N0SPAMcogeco.ca> wrote in message
> news:g09cfv$1dh$1...@news.datemas.de...
>> They didn't even have the budget to do their own
>> end-of-the-world-nuke-launch scene (as a previous post mentioned, they
>> just used the same footage from Terminator 3), what makes you think
>> they're gonna spend money to come film in Montreal when they're all based
>> in Vancouver?
>>
>> Hell, they didn't even spend money to go a few hundred miles south to
>> film the football field scene (from "Recruit") in a stadium that didn't
>> have a 55 yard line for Pete's sake.....
>
> Damn I missed that -- good catch. Isn't this show amazing?
>
Even if they don't want to travel, how hard would have it have been to
digitally impose a 100 yard field over the 110-yard one? I'm no graphics
expert, but I sure don't think it would have taken much....
Stve
Ric
You get your panties in a knot because the writers take license with the
location of a church in a show like Smallville and you call other people
morons? Do you spend a lot of time fretting over the technical inaccuracies
of Clarks superpowers too?
Martin Phipps
> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:aee41502-c19b-4a96...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On May 12, 3:34 pm, Edward McArdle <mcar...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <327ff464-256b-424e-b533-bab8c8fee...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 11, 9:02 pm, "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote:
> > > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they
> > > > wanted
> > > > to."
>
> > > > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> > > My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
> > > they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
>
> > One other thing of not much relevance...
>
> > The Catholic Church recently decided that there is no evidence that
> > there ever was a St Christopher, so they have struck him off the list!
>
> As there's no compelling evidence that Jesus Christ himself ever
> existed then they might as well strike their whole religion. :)
>
> or I exist either...... :)
I think therefore I am. As a corollary, Christopher M doesn't exist
either.
Martin
BC
"Preacher" <sdean5...@N0SPAMcogeco.ca> wrote in message
Probably not much. I've always liked the Pilot episode but in it there is
one little thing (nit pick) that bugs me -- Clark returns the truck to Lex
per Jonathan's instructions and after a lengthy conversation about the
mansion and Lex being bald etc., Clark thanks him and leaves. I say why
doesn't Lex offer Clark a ride home? The writer/s just take for granted
that Clark will superspeed home -- no big deal -- but to Lex it would seem
odd that Clark would walk all the way home. So the illogic/oversight
started at the very beginning of the series. It would have been easy to
have had Clark say that his dad was waiting or have Lex give him the ride --
it wouldn't matter -- but not addressing it was an oversight for normal
behavior.
>
> Stve
>
bf
> I thought when Chloe refused to take a few minutes to eat breakfast with her
> live in boyfriend that he should have shoved a waffle in her Belgian face.
> But it is poor writing continuity -- one ep they are lovey -- next they are
> on the outs -- next they question then the kiss and make up without
> explanation. At least there were some reasons why Clark and Lana were in
> and out -- we get nothing with Jimmy/ Chloe.
The oddest thing about Chloe/Jimmy in that episode is when Jimmy
arrived late
and Chloe was all horny. We've never seen that. It was even funnier
that Jimmy
blew her off because he was so excited about the cave drawings or
whatever.
Complete role reversal from normal.
>The show is just too
> shallow -- the characters are becoming flat especially the guest stars. And
> as I predicted the show doesn't work with Kara around unless the story is
> about her. So they contrive ways to get her off screen, off planet, out of
> our dimension to give Clark some breathing room. The one main thing that
> they avoid is making Clark a real hero. As Clark, his deeds must be
> secret -- he can't fly -- he can't become Superman and so the show is at a
> dead end and can only continue when it is about somebody else.- Hide quoted text -
>
The problem is that Kara is actually a hero. She makes Clark look even
worse when
she's around. IMO, it's not a problem that there's two people with
powers on this show.
The problem is that the "main" character is still a 15 year old
pathetic crybaby.
IMO, they write Kara out of some episodes just to save money. Just as
they have
done with Lionel, Lois, and Jimmy.
Thus, to save money, they have Kara pass out and give us no update.
Makes for
bad storytelling.
bf
> > The Traveler being on this continent, and the Kawatche caves and so on,
> > and Smallville of course, and every member of the Veritas group, made it
> > a reasonable assumption.
>
> Not in any way, shape, or form, given that the clues were manufactured
> on other continents.
>
Exactly. One stone was on this continent (Aztecs, Mexico).. We've seen
on this
show that Kryptonians drop their stuff all over the world.
bf
Actually, there is proof that Jesus did live and was crucified (Roman
record keeping).
Obviously, his Divinity can not be proved or not proven based on what
we have, but the
man named Jesus lived and was crucified.
Anim8rFSK
<31706c09-8e37-4e97...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
bf <bfor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
They never said how old that clock was, but I bet it was older than
Canda anyway. :)
The Citizen
It's not cheap. It would be at least a few grand to do that. And why
waste that money to fix something only a handful of nerds on the
Internet would notice and obsess over?
Preacher
"The Citizen" <citi...@nospam.ca> wrote in message
news:8pah24d5f2vaqorkf...@4ax.com...
That's the first time I've ever mentioned it, and I find it funny but
certainly don't obsess over it, so that better not be a shot in my
direction.....
Steve
BC
"Preacher" <sdean5...@N0SPAMcogeco.ca> wrote in message
Besides what is wrong with striving for some kind of realism -- that's why
they use actors instead of animation.
>
> Steve
>
KalElFan
> It didn't have to be a cathedral.
We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point. I presented
several good reasons why the North American continent made
sense. Anim8r cited clues being elsewhere around the globe,
but that would have been done by Swann later so as not to
make it easy for others to find it. The episode addressed that,
including explaining why Lionel brought the mansion over from
Scotland piece by piece.
Once Chloe had "St. Christopher" as a clue, they could have made
the episode a two-parter by having her satisfy in advance all kinds
of never-ending online nitpicking, including the following dialogue
excerpts...
Chloe: "Oh, my, there must be a hundred St. Christopher's
churches in North America alone, and who knows how many
around the world. Clark, whatever shall we do?"
Clark: "Well, clues may have been scattered around the world,
but I'm in North America, and so was Swann and the other
Veritas members, and the Kawatche caves, and my Fortress
Let's narrow it down to North America. In fact I'll bet the
device is within a 90-minute flight from New York, where
Swann was located."
Chloe: "That's reasonable, since if Swann or Veritas ever
needed the device they would need it quickly and wouldn't
want to have to travel to Australia or New Zealand to get it.
Clark: "We can also narrow it down to a major church.
The clues pointing to 100 churches wouldn't make sense,
and churches have a greater chance of getting torn down
or converted to some other purpose. Cathedrals typically
stand for hundreds of years."
Chloe: "Turns out your hunch was right Clark. The only
St. Christopher's Cathedral on the continent is in Montreal."
Clark: "Can't be. My dad visited there once, and the big
church there is the Notre Dame cathedral in Old Montreal."
Chloe: "Maybe it still is in some alternate universe, but in
ours it was renamed St. Christophe back in the 70s."
It was a longer piece having fun and really skewering ridiculous
nitpicks, which are rampant online. Of course the show, bad as
it's been lately, isn't stupid enough to waste umpteen lines of
dialogue explaining every detail. Smallville has had all kinds of
major problems but the idiosyncrasies of online nitpickers is not
one of them. One poster on this group (Hi BC!) wouldn't even
believe absolute proof of a character's age a few years back.
There's just no way to satisfy some people. They'll make up
defense after defense of some nitpick that doesn't matter.
Even when the nitpick is valid, like that capital-L Lame line
about "Could it be... energy?" several eps back, way too much
emphasis is placed on it. Star Trek TOS had lame lines, one
from Spock about "pure energy" or some such. Maybe 5-
10% of the Smallville viewership is science literate enough to
notice, and only a fraction of those get really worked up about
it *especially* when the series has been so awful the last few
years for several other reasons.
BC
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote in message
news:68rup5F...@mid.individual.net...
Belief is for religion and Smallville is not religion to me -- it is for you
it appears. The ages are based upon the Pilot and the Pilot script. And I
still stand by that. The problem arises with the usual Smallville writer
not paying attention to what has come before and so they create a new
"canon" for the show. Clark 3 years old, Lana 3 years old , Lex 9 years old
in the Pilot at home coming -- 12 years later they start up with home
coming that makes Lana 15, Clark 15 and Lex 21. Since it is at exactly the
same time of year then the ages would be accurate for that time. Lana has a
birthday soon after that (couple of episodes later at the Luthor mansion) so
she becomes 16 in her freshman year. Clark has a birthday in the spring and
is 16 before the season ends. The disparity occurs years later when they
say Clark is 20 or something like that and he's actually a year older. It
has nothing to do with belief -- I pose actual facts from the show and you
put forth dogma.
But nevertheless, keep up the good work because I agree with about
everything you say -- but you can't be right all the time! :-)
Which brings up the thought that Nell was a friend of the Luthors (she had
Lana's birthday party there) and they could have thrown us a bone by mixing
her in with the Veritas group and thereby involving Lana with the Traveler.
>
> Even when the nitpick is valid, like that capital-L Lame line
> about "Could it be... energy?" several eps back, way too much
> emphasis is placed on it. Star Trek TOS had lame lines, one
> from Spock about "pure energy" or some such. Maybe 5-
> 10% of the Smallville viewership is science literate enough to
> notice, and only a fraction of those get really worked up about
> it *especially* when the series has been so awful the last few
> years for several other reasons.
I think it is a cascade effect. Smallville has had so many of these insults
that it has started an avalanche of complaints and has caused the average
viewer to look way too close at what is going on. I don't see these
problems with other shows (ok a few with the CSI programs) and I watch a
fair amount of tv. My faves right now are House, Bones, NCIS. I like the
character stuff.
Anim8rFSK
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> "Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > It didn't have to be a cathedral.
>
> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point. I presented
> several good reasons why the North American continent made
> sense. Anim8r cited clues being elsewhere around the globe,
> but that would have been done by Swann later so as not to
No. The stuff found around the world predates Swan.
> make it easy for others to find it. The episode addressed that,
> including explaining why Lionel brought the mansion over from
> Scotland piece by piece.
>
> Once Chloe had "St. Christopher" as a clue, they could have made
> the episode a two-parter by having her satisfy in advance all kinds
> of never-ending online nitpicking, including the following dialogue
> excerpts...
>
> Chloe: "Oh, my, there must be a hundred St. Christopher's
> churches in North America alone, and who knows how many
> around the world. Clark, whatever shall we do?"
>
> Clark: "Well, clues may have been scattered around the world,
> but I'm in North America, and so was Swann and the other
> Veritas members, and the Kawatche caves, and my Fortress
The fortress isn't in North America
> Let's narrow it down to North America. In fact I'll bet the
> device is within a 90-minute flight from New York, where
> Swann was located."
>
> Chloe: "That's reasonable, since if Swann or Veritas ever
> needed the device they would need it quickly and wouldn't
> want to have to travel to Australia or New Zealand to get it.
>
> Clark: "We can also narrow it down to a major church.
> The clues pointing to 100 churches wouldn't make sense,
> and churches have a greater chance of getting torn down
> or converted to some other purpose. Cathedrals typically
> stand for hundreds of years."
>
> Chloe: "Turns out your hunch was right Clark. The only
> St. Christopher's Cathedral on the continent is in Montreal."
Which isn't true.
>
> Clark: "Can't be. My dad visited there once, and the big
> church there is the Notre Dame cathedral in Old Montreal."
>
> Chloe: "Maybe it still is in some alternate universe, but in
> ours it was renamed St. Christophe back in the 70s."
>
> It was a longer piece having fun and really skewering ridiculous
> nitpicks, which are rampant online. Of course the show, bad as
> it's been lately, isn't stupid enough to waste umpteen lines of
> dialogue explaining every detail. Smallville has had all kinds of
> major problems but the idiosyncrasies of online nitpickers is not
> one of them. One poster on this group (Hi BC!) wouldn't even
> believe absolute proof of a character's age a few years back.
> There's just no way to satisfy some people. They'll make up
> defense after defense of some nitpick that doesn't matter.
>
> Even when the nitpick is valid, like that capital-L Lame line
> about "Could it be... energy?" several eps back, way too much
> emphasis is placed on it. Star Trek TOS had lame lines, one
> from Spock about "pure energy" or some such. Maybe 5-
> 10% of the Smallville viewership is science literate enough to
> notice, and only a fraction of those get really worked up about
> it *especially* when the series has been so awful the last few
> years for several other reasons.
Aside from all your facts being wrong, and your conclusions being wrong,
well, there's not point in defending stupid incompetent writers. It's
better to ridicule and mock them.
Hunter
martin...@yahoo.com says...
> On May 11, 9:02 pm, "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote:
> > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
> > to."
> >
> > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
> they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
>
>
---
So? There isn't really a town called Smallville, Kansas or a city called Metropolis,
Kansas either. As the person you are answering pointed out Saint Christopher is the
patron saint of travelers. The writers were going for something appropriate. I have
to check but what was the name of the Church Lex Luthor and Lana Lang was married in?
Was it the real name of the church? I don't think so, but I have to check again.
It is very common to come up with fictional names of places and things out of wanting
to avoid either positive or negative advertisement of something or in this case, come
up with a cute relevant name. I also would think that to avoid controversey at the
suggestion of human sacrifice depicted the Church the episode was filmed in didn't
want it's name associated with human sacrifice.
--
----->Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Hunter
bfor...@yahoo.com says...
WOW!! THIS IS SOMETHING! I TOTALLY AND WITHOUT RESERVATION AGREE WITH YOU!!
Sorry for "shouting". Let's meditate on this for a while. :-D
redhawk
> In article <327ff464-256b-424e-b533-bab8c8fee...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
> > > to."
>
> > > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> > My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
> > they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
>
> > Martin
>
> ---
> So? There isn't really a town called Smallville, Kansas or a city called Metropolis,
> Kansas either. As the person you are answering pointed out Saint Christopher is the
> patron saint of travelers. The writers were going for something appropriate. I have
> to check but what was the name of the Church Lex Luthor and Lana Lang was married in?
> Was it the real name of the church? I don't think so, but I have to check again.
>
Lex and Lana were married at Temple Emanu-El as I recall.
KalElFan
news:ANIM8Rfsk-71F4F...@news.west.cox.net...
> In article <68rup5F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > It didn't have to be a cathedral.
>>
>> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point. I presented
>> several good reasons why the North American continent made
>> sense. Anim8r cited clues being elsewhere around the globe,
>> but that would have been done by Swann later so as not to
>
> No. The stuff found around the world predates Swan.
Jor-El was the original source for the "stuff" at issue here, which
is the device to control Clark. But Veritas (led by Swann) was
the group controlling that. In any case, even if the device were
ancient, with no later Veritas or Swann control of it, the other
North American-centric elements remain. It was Smallville that
was chosen for the Traveler, the caves and Kawatche legends
were nearby, and as for this:
> The fortress isn't in North America
Sure it is. Prove otherwise. After Clark had the crystals, he
headed North. Chloe ended up in a Yukon hospital or some
such after she followed him there.
>> Chloe: "Turns out your hunch was right Clark. The only
>> St. Christopher's Cathedral on the continent is in Montreal."
>
> Which isn't true.
In the Smallverse, it is true. Just like Smallville and Metropolis
are miles apart, and countless other differences exist. The show
is set in a fictional universe and of course there are differences.
There's no Fortress in the North in our universe.
> Aside from all your facts being wrong...
You haven't demonstrated that *any* are wrong.
> ... there's [no] point in defending stupid incompetent writers. It's
> better to ridicule and mock them.
There've been all kinds of serious problems with the writing on
Smallville. St. Christopher's Cathedral in Montreal isn't one of
them. In fairness to the writers, there've also been all kinds of
other negative factors at work. It wasn't the writers who made
most of the big-picture decisions or created the obstacles that
sunk this show. It was the studio, network(s), Gough & Millar
(as creators/EPs and not writers), DC Comics, the movie
division and so on.
Anim8rFSK
"KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:ANIM8Rfsk-71F4F...@news.west.cox.net...
>
> > In article <68rup5F...@mid.individual.net>,
> > "KalElFan" <kale...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Martin Phipps" <martin...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> >>
> >> > It didn't have to be a cathedral.
> >>
> >> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point. I presented
> >> several good reasons why the North American continent made
> >> sense. Anim8r cited clues being elsewhere around the globe,
> >> but that would have been done by Swann later so as not to
> >
> > No. The stuff found around the world predates Swan.
>
> Jor-El was the original source for the "stuff" at issue here, which
> is the device to control Clark. But Veritas (led by Swann) was
> the group controlling that. In any case, even if the device were
> ancient, with no later Veritas or Swann control of it, the other
> North American-centric elements remain. It was Smallville that
> was chosen for the Traveler, the caves and Kawatche legends
> were nearby, and as for this:
>
> > The fortress isn't in North America
>
> Sure it is. Prove otherwise.
They showed it on the freaking globe. It's in the Arctic Circle. It's
not on the North American continent.
After Clark had the crystals, he
> headed North. Chloe ended up in a Yukon hospital or some
> such after she followed him there.
>
> >> Chloe: "Turns out your hunch was right Clark. The only
> >> St. Christopher's Cathedral on the continent is in Montreal."
> >
> > Which isn't true.
>
> In the Smallverse, it is true. Just like Smallville and Metropolis
> are miles apart, and countless other differences exist. The show
> is set in a fictional universe and of course there are differences.
> There's no Fortress in the North in our universe.
>
> > Aside from all your facts being wrong...
>
> You haven't demonstrated that *any* are wrong.
Everybody's accepted you're wrong about everything. Back to the
killfile with you.
>
> > ... there's [no] point in defending stupid incompetent writers. It's
> > better to ridicule and mock them.
>
> There've been all kinds of serious problems with the writing on
> Smallville. St. Christopher's Cathedral in Montreal isn't one of
> them.
it is to everyone but you.
> In fairness to the writers,
They're incompetent, and couldn't get a job on a real show
> there've also been all kinds of
> other negative factors at work. It wasn't the writers who made
> most of the big-picture decisions or created the obstacles that
> sunk this show. It was the studio, network(s), Gough & Millar
> (as creators/EPs and not writers), DC Comics, the movie
> division and so on.
--
Preacher
It's why they airbrush out the CN tower when filming in Toronto, and change
the street signs to English when filming in Montreal. Otherwise, it would
just look too stupid.
Steve
BC
Looked like the Fortress was in North America unless it was in Greenland.
Suppose it could be built on the ice pack in the arctic but that is melting.
But the stones and some Green K were in China -- the mansion was originally
in Ireland -- St. Christopher's Cathedral could just as easily been in
europe since Isobel was buried in paris and the book with the transference
symbol was from there.
BC
I think that the main idea for the complaint is that they made the
assumption that the cathedral was in North America when it could have been
in Europe, Ireland or Britain or as someone pointed out even in Kansas.
Here are some and I didn't need Chloe:
St. Christopher's Cathedral -- Manama, Bahrain
" " " -- Havana, Cuba
" " " -- Canberra, Australia
" " " -- Roermond, Netherlands
What was the purpose of the clock being in Montreal and not near the device
in Ireland? Since it only contained a clue to find the device and the
mansion was at that time (supposing the clock was a hundred years old)
located in Ireland and was shipped over during Clark's lifetime -- he told
Lex in the Pilot that he remembered the trucks coming through town when they
built it -- so less than 20 years in Smallville. You can work some of
your dogma math to warp these numbers to fit your alternate universe and
support the writer's illogic. :-)
redhawk
[...]
>
> What was the purpose of the clock being in Montreal and not near the
> device in Ireland? Since it only contained a clue to find the device and
> the mansion was at that time (supposing the clock was a hundred years old)
> located in Ireland and was shipped over during Clark's lifetime -- he told
> Lex in the Pilot that he remembered the trucks coming through town when
> they built it -- so less than 20 years in Smallville. You can work some
> of your dogma math to warp these numbers to fit your alternate universe
> and support the writer's illogic. :-)
>
>
Virgil Swann owned the clock during his lifetime. We don't know where he
got it, but do know that it was built in Europe. So at first it was closer
to the mansion in Scotland. Upon Swann's death he donated it to the
cathedral in Montreal, where he knew that Edward Teague was hiding out. The
original Veritas members did not place the clock in Montreal, Swann did
that, years after Lionel had moved the mansion to North America.
Hunter
martin...@yahoo.com says...
> On May 12, 12:15 am, "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> > "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8R...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >
> > news:ANIM8Rfsk-BA1B8...@news.west.cox.net...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > In article <F6-dnU7cD9cQY7vVnZ2dnUVZ_jmdn...@comcast.com>,
> > > "Julio Laredo" <jrlaredo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:4826ee84$0$11639$607e...@cv.net...
> >
> > >> > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > >> > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they
> > >> > wanted to."
> >
> > >> > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
> >
> > >> cathedral in the entire world?
> >
> > > No, she said it was the only one on the entire continent, which was even
> > > dumber -- who said it had to be on a church on this continent?
> >
> > The Traveler being on this continent, and the Kawatche caves and so on,
> > and Smallville of course, and every member of the Veritas group, made it
> > church but *the* major church in a diocese, the church of the Bishop for
> > that diocese. So the various St. Christopher churches that show up on a
> > search wouldn't count as a cathedral, and it may be that there is literally
> > no cathedral in the world called St. Christopher's. In New York it'd be
> > St. Patrick's, Toronto it'd be St. Michael's, Montreal it'd be Notre Dame
> > and so on. But the show needed a St. Christopher's Cathedral so they
> > made one up and put it in Montreal.
>
> It didn't have to be a cathedral. Any church could have been a
> "sanctuary". St. Christopher's Episcopal Church in Wichita, Kansas
> would have done nicely. And there are St. Christopher Cathedrals in
> New Zealand, Australia and Cyprus. Here's a nice link I found.
>
> http://www.ucc.ie/milmart/chrismodern.html
>
> As you can see, there appears to be no church in North America named
> "St. Christopher's Cathedral". (The list is incomplete.) Anyway,
> this could easily have been fixed with Chloe saying "The only St.
> Christopher Church I know is the one in Montreal." As the link shows,
> there are a lot of churches closer to home that would have done
> nicely.
>
> Martin
---
It is enough that she said that there was only one St. Christopher on the North
American continent.
Martin Phipps
> On May 12, 8:05 am, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 12, 3:34 pm, Edward McArdle <mcar...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <327ff464-256b-424e-b533-bab8c8fee...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 11, 9:02 pm, "Ric" <N...@Way.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > > "they easily could have used the name of an actual church if they wanted
> > > > > to."
>
> > > > > St. Christopher....patron saint of travelers...get it?
>
> > > > My point is that there's no St. Christopher's Church in Montreal so
> > > > they weren't using the name of an actual church. Get it?
>
> > > One other thing of not much relevance...
>
> > > The Catholic Church recently decided that there is no evidence that
> > > there ever was a St Christopher, so they have struck him off the list!
>
> > As there's no compelling evidence that Jesus Christ himself ever
> > existed then they might as well strike their whole religion. :)
>
> record keeping).
> Obviously, his Divinity can not be proved or not proven based on what
> we have, but the
> man named Jesus lived and was crucified.
Bullshit. There was no records of a man named Jesus being cruxified
around 30 AD. There were men named Jesus (actually Joshua) who were
cruxified both around 100 BC and around 100 AD but those dates don't
fit with the Biblical story.
Martin
Martin Phipps
> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > It didn't have to be a cathedral.
>
> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point.
<snip>
Indeed. Look, all Chloe had to say is "There's only one St.
Christopher Cathedral THAT I KNOW OF and that's the one in Montreal."
People who have actually lived in Montreal will say "Huh?" but it's
better than the whole "on this continent" qualifier she gave. If she
had said "There's only one St. Christopher Cathedral" then we could
nail them as there are a few on other continents. I give them credit
for trying to anticipate nitpicking in advance. :)
Martin
Martin Phipps
>
> It is very common to come up with fictional names of places and things out of wanting
> to avoid either positive or negative advertisement of something or in this case, come
> up with a cute relevant name. I also would think that to avoid controversey at the
> suggestion of human sacrifice depicted the Church the episode was filmed in didn't
> want it's name associated with human sacrifice.
True, but one might argue that they already crossed that line when
they shifted the action to Montreal. I wonder how Mister Teague
planned to dispose of Clark's body. Dump it on the streets? :)
Martin
Martin Phipps
> In article <68s5eoF2u4lt...@mid.individual.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
> > "Anim8rFSK" <ANIM8R...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:ANIM8Rfsk-71F4F...@news.west.cox.net...
>
> > > In article <68rup5F2sbuf...@mid.individual.net>,
> > > "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
> > >> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > >> > It didn't have to be a cathedral.
>
> > >> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point. I presented
> > >> several good reasons why the North American continent made
> > >> sense. Anim8r cited clues being elsewhere around the globe,
> > >> but that would have been done by Swann later so as not to
>
> > > No. The stuff found around the world predates Swan.
>
> > Jor-El was the original source for the "stuff" at issue here, which
> > is the device to control Clark. But Veritas (led by Swann) was
> > the group controlling that. In any case, even if the device were
> > ancient, with no later Veritas or Swann control of it, the other
> > North American-centric elements remain. It was Smallville that
> > was chosen for the Traveler, the caves and Kawatche legends
> > were nearby, and as for this:
>
> > > The fortress isn't in North America
>
> > Sure it is. Prove otherwise.
>
> They showed it on the freaking globe. It's in the Arctic Circle. It's
> not on the North American continent.
Actually, Greenland is part of North America (although not on the
mainland) and it looked like it was on Greenland. Why then did Chole
end up in a hospital in the Yukon? It's a continuity error.
Martin
Martin Phipps
> In article <3410a820-8af0-4321-ac20-218a26097...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
> martinphip...@yahoo.com says...
Oops. I meant "Netherlands, Australia and Cyprus".
Martin
BC
"redhawk" <newfou...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:SG8Wj.1162$lQ1.712@trnddc02...
show I could have sworn they said it was built on an island off the coast of
Ireland. The question for me isn't about the clock so much as the actual
device in the mantle. From the Pilot and from Relic and another ep we know
that the mansion was not the ancestral home of the Luthor's. Lachlan Luthor
was a petty crook from suicide slums where Lionel grew up. Who built the
mansion -- placed the device in the mantle -- that was a Veritas member? If
Lionel placed it in the mantle when the mansion was rebuilt (after Clark had
arrived), then why all the bullshit with the keys and killing the other
members when the damn device was sitting in his house? All he needed to
control Clark was that little black shield and presumably, as a Vertitas
member, he knew about the Clock and Teague. Were we to suppose that anyone
opening the safe deposit box would have to hire an expert to disassemble the
first device to find out the clockmaker's name and then follow his work to
Swann and then Montreal? Doubtful. So Lionel had control of the device ALL
along -- even in the days when he's trying to break into the cave wall
device. This new story doesn't fit the actions that came before.
redhawk
> "redhawk" <newfounds...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:SG8Wj.1162$lQ1.712@trnddc02...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "BC" <bcpho...@att.net> wrote in message
> >news:Ol7Wj.2618$ah4...@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
> > [...]
>
> >> What was the purpose of the clock being in Montreal and not near the
> >> device in Ireland? Since it only contained a clue to find the device
> >> and the mansion was at that time (supposing the clock was a hundred years
> >> old) located in Ireland and was shipped over during Clark's lifetime --
> >> he told Lex in the Pilot that he remembered the trucks coming through
> >> town when they built it -- so less than 20 years in Smallville. You
> >> can work some of your dogma math to warp these numbers to fit your
> >> alternate universe and support the writer's illogic. :-)
>
> > Virgil Swann owned the clock during his lifetime. We don't know where he
> > got it, but do know that it was built in Europe. So at first it was
> > closer to the mansion in Scotland. Upon Swann's death he donated it to
> > the cathedral in Montreal, where he knew that Edward Teague was hiding
> > out. The original Veritas members did not place the clock in Montreal,
> > Swann did that, years after Lionel had moved the mansion to North America.
>
> Earlier in the show they said the mansion was from Scotland but in the last
> show I could have sworn they said it was built on an island off the coast of
> Ireland. The question for me isn't about the clock so much as the actual
> device in the mantle. From the Pilot and from Relic and another ep we know
> that the mansion was not the ancestral home of the Luthor's. Lachlan Luthor
> was a petty crook from suicide slums where Lionel grew up.
The mansion could still have been the ancestral Luthor home, even
though Lachlan was a petty crook in Smallville. Let's suppose that
the Luthors had a successful ancestor, we'll call him "Labrador
Luthor," a renowned dog breeder who developed the famous retrievers
which still bear his name. With his dog-breeding fortune he built the
Luthor mansion in Ireland or Scotland or Wales or wherever it was.
Labrador Luthor also got involved with Veritas, and put the Kryptonian
artifact into the fireplace mantle to keep it safe. All was well,
until irresponsible grandson "Liberty Luthor" spent the family fortune
and wound up heavily in debt. He fled to the New World just ahead of
his creditors, who seized the mansion in foreclosure. His son,
Lachlan Luthor, grew up poor and became a criminal in Suicide Slums.
But Lachlan's ambitious son, Lionel, made a new fortune and bought the
old family mansion, moving it to Smallville. So the mansion was the
ancestral Luthor home, even though they had fallen on hard times for a
while. Everything fits, or at least it is possible for it to all fit
with some imagination.
Who built the
> mansion -- placed the device in the mantle -- that was a Veritas member? If
> Lionel placed it in the mantle when the mansion was rebuilt (after Clark had
> arrived), then why all the bullshit with the keys and killing the other
> members when the damn device was sitting in his house? All he needed to
> control Clark was that little black shield and presumably, as a Vertitas
> member, he knew about the Clock and Teague. Were we to suppose that anyone
> opening the safe deposit box would have to hire an expert to disassemble the
> first device to find out the clockmaker's name and then follow his work to
> Swann and then Montreal? Doubtful. So Lionel had control of the device ALL
> along -- even in the days when he's trying to break into the cave wall
> device. This new story doesn't fit the actions that came before.
I think the artifact was placed into the mantle long before Lionel was
born. Lionel himself clearly did not know about the artifact, so he
did not put it there. Knowledge of the secret device was lost
somewhere in the past, perhaps around the time the Luthor family also
lost the mansion and emigrated to America. It is possible to come up
with reasonable "fan wank" explanations, even if there was not time to
explain everything in one brief hour of television.
Martin Phipps
>
> Earlier in the show they said the mansion was from Scotland but in the last
> show I could have sworn they said it was built on an island off the coast of
> Ireland. The question for me isn't about the clock so much as the actual
> device in the mantle. From the Pilot and from Relic and another ep we know
> that the mansion was not the ancestral home of the Luthor's. Lachlan Luthor
> was a petty crook from suicide slums where Lionel grew up. Who built the
> mansion -- placed the device in the mantle -- that was a Veritas member? If
> Lionel placed it in the mantle when the mansion was rebuilt (after Clark had
> arrived), then why all the bullshit with the keys and killing the other
> members when the damn device was sitting in his house? All he needed to
> control Clark was that little black shield and presumably, as a Vertitas
> member, he knew about the Clock and Teague. Were we to suppose that anyone
> opening the safe deposit box would have to hire an expert to disassemble the
> first device to find out the clockmaker's name and then follow his work to
> Swann and then Montreal? Doubtful. So Lionel had control of the device ALL
> along -- even in the days when he's trying to break into the cave wall
> device. This new story doesn't fit the actions that came before.
The only way it makes sense is if the grandparents of the Veritas
members started Veritas and not even Lionel knew everything. Lionel's
grandfather could have kept Lionel in the dark about certain things
just as Lionel kept Lex in the dark. Veritas didn't start because
Swan got signals from Krypton: Swan looked for signals from Krypton
(and knew how to read them) because his grandfather had told him how.
Presumably Jor-El himself travelled back in time and told the original
Veritas members about the Travellor (ie Clark) and gave them the
device. That's how they knew so much about the Travellor on one hand
and so little on the other (because they weren't the original members
and they weren't told everything). It also explains why a scientist
who got signals from anotherr planet didn't tell anybody. The device
was hidden in the Luthor ancestral home by Lionel's grandfather. That
works for me.
Martin
Martin Phipps
Or maybe Lachlan Luthor was wanted by the police and fled to the
States. Lionel inherited money when his grandfather died (after
killing his parents). The inheritance gives him more motive.
Martin
KalElFan
> On May 13, 6:30 am, "KalElFan" <kalel...@yanospamhoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "Martin Phipps" <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:3410a820-8af0-4321...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> It didn't have to be a cathedral.
>>
>> We're into pointless nitpick defenses at this point.
>
> <snip>
>
> Indeed. Look, all Chloe had to say is "There's only one St.
> Christopher Cathedral THAT I KNOW OF and that's the one in
> Montreal."
That would have led to the legitimate nitpick that the only one she
happened to know of was the one they were looking for. It was
much better to narrow it down to cathedrals in North America and
then (because there are none) cite the fictitious one in Montreal.
> I give them credit for trying to anticipate nitpicking in advance. :)
Legalities may have been a bigger reason, given the nature of the
story and a real church not wanting to be associated with it.
KalElFan
Even if it were that far North, parts of Alaska and lots of Canada's
three territories are north of the Arctic Circle. If it's in Greenland in
the shot from the last episode then that conflicts with Chloe ending
up where she did in ep 5-1, but Greenland is still North America.
[snippage of Anim8r speaking for everyone and invoking the killfile
he routinely betrays]
>> In fairness to the writers,
>
> They're incompetent, and couldn't get a job on a real show
Smallville not being a real show to you is irrelevant (albeit consistent
with your other failures to recognize facts).
The show's aired 150+ episodes and had a lot of promise the first
season or two. In retrospect, I think the show lost some of its best
writers after that (Egan, who ended up on House, Verheiden, on
BSG, Green and Loeb, on Heroes). The writing the last few years
has been mostly awful, but the occasional episode has been as well
written as one could expect under the circumstances, and again I
think there are lots of other things that dragged the show down.
BC
a church. From what I read a Cathedral is the official residence or office
of a Bishop of the Catholic church. So that little thing we saw in
Smallville wasn't a cathedral. But maybe it was a chapel attached to the
Cathedral -- I'd buy that.
BC
*Lionel admitted that he made it up -- he was ashamed of being born to a
(something like) a thieving father and a boozing mother in Suicide Slums.
Labrador Luthor also got involved with Veritas, and put the Kryptonian
artifact into the fireplace mantle to keep it safe. All was well,
until irresponsible grandson "Liberty Luthor" spent the family fortune
and wound up heavily in debt. He fled to the New World just ahead of
his creditors, who seized the mansion in foreclosure. His son,
Lachlan Luthor, grew up poor and became a criminal in Suicide Slums.
But Lachlan's ambitious son, Lionel, made a new fortune and bought the
old family mansion, moving it to Smallville. So the mansion was the
ancestral Luthor home, even though they had fallen on hard times for a
while. Everything fits, or at least it is possible for it to all fit
with some imagination.
*Like the current story arc it goes against what we've been told.
BC
*I don't think it explains it. The only way that device could have been
delivered to whomever would be for jor-el to hand deliver it via portal.
But that would require that he would know that he was going to send his son
and that he could be a problem on Earth. It requires that he wouldn't be
aware of what was to happen and that Calrk wouldn't be a problem. So that
rules out time travel to the future -- or he would know all that and the
threat of Brainiac trying to stop the launch. Someone must have gone back
in time to make the cave paintings and they knew the future though and they
even knew of Lex -- I don't thi nk thisis likely for the above reasons that
there was no attempt to use future knowledge to stop the bad guys. Rather
maybe Kryptonians had a sort of Quantum computer that could calculate
accurate probabilities. Jor-el knowing of the soon demise of Krypton, ran
some probabilities that showed he should send his son to Earth and what the
consequences could be -- i.e., Lex -- segeeth etc.
Martin