Thoughts on #308 - THREE GAYS OF THE CONDO

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Tony Hill

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Apr 13, 2003, 6:05:33 PM4/13/03
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Review:
This was a funny episode, but a bit uneven in light of some other
flashback episodes, and particularly "Homer's Phobia." They really
played the jigsaw puzzle intro too long. Would OFF make fun of any
other minority the way they pick on gays? Smithers's flamboyance had me
ROTFL considering how subtle his homosexuality was in earlier seasons.
Might have been less caustic and more funny if they had played the "Odd
Couple" angle with Kirk VanHouten. I give it a B+.

ESHAAS

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Apr 13, 2003, 6:32:13 PM4/13/03
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>From: Tony Hill

>Would OFF make fun of any
>other minority the way they pick on gays?

Certainly not Hindus! . :)
Seriously, though, I think the show is pretty much "equal oportunity" in its
mockery. Even liberals and environmentalists get their share. Like Monty
Python used to be --nothing is sacred/anything for a laugh.

Jsonitsac

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Apr 13, 2003, 8:52:55 PM4/13/03
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For some reason, old images of Dr. Hibbard always crack me up. Also
shouldn't Smithers just come out of the closet? He'd feel a lot more
comfortable with himself. I say he's closited because of how he's
never outright said he is gay. For example when he rated on Sideshow
Bob he said his motive was because of "lifestyle choices." Even
tonight, when all the gay guys were saying hi to him he was
uncomfortable with it.

AlannahLouis

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Apr 13, 2003, 9:14:23 PM4/13/03
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I am a straight female and even I thought this episode was too gratuitous with
the stereotyping. Why has every gay male character on The Simpsons been
flaming and femme? Come on now, this is 2003! There were laughs but I didn't
find the "sassy, femme" jokes funny, they are TIRED. In Living Color was doing
this type of stuff TEN years ago. Not one of the worst of the season, IMO,
though.

Pootie Tang

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Apr 13, 2003, 9:38:46 PM4/13/03
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AlannahLouis <fon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030413211423...@mb-fh.aol.com...

Want to go out?


Nathan

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Apr 13, 2003, 9:43:38 PM4/13/03
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"AlannahLouis" <fon...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030413211423...@mb-fh.aol.com...
> I am a straight female and even I thought this episode was too gratuitous
with
> the stereotyping. Why has every gay male character on The Simpsons been
> flaming and femme?

Well, except for Smithers.

Nathan


AlannahLouis

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Apr 13, 2003, 9:49:02 PM4/13/03
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"Want to go out?"

Okay, my email address is Yeah-ba...@aol.com....

I'm not ranting or anything, I am just making an observation. I mean the
represenstation of gay men on The Simpsons is getting more one-dimensional. For
several years Smithers was quite masculine, yet the writers have effeminated
him gradually (collecting Barbies, for instance), now he's rollerblading down
the street with rainbow hotpants on? What next for him, I can only imagine. I
guess its official now, Carl and Lenny are gay, hopefully they writers will
handle that maturely, or else why bother?

AlannahLouis

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Apr 13, 2003, 10:01:36 PM4/13/03
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Smithers has been getting more flaming with each new season. At work he's
always been self-contained but it seems the writers may be heading in a
direction where his sexuality might be revealing itself on the job, too.

Michael Black

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Apr 13, 2003, 10:50:08 PM4/13/03
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I can't give statistics, but I'm not sure about the job. Yes, over
the years he's made comments to/about Mr Burns, but I thought that
was fairly constant.

What is happening is that as time goes by, we see more of his home life.
And that's where he's happiest. When we get a look at all that, then
his intererests become far more obvious. He at times seems like
two different people. Yet I'm not so sure it's completely that he
his hiding his home life at work, but that he is business-like
at work, and then is different at home.

His reaction when the guys on the trolley (suddenly, Springfield has
trolley's? Seems more like a San Francsisco reference) make comments
could be that of someone who is trying to hide his orientation from the
people at work, or a clash of two worlds. If someone learns
something about you that you hadn't told them, you may react
the same way, and it doesn't really matter what the thing is.
You need time to adjust to them knowing.

It might be said that Smithers is quite open about his sexuality,
just not with the people at work. If he was trying to hide it,
he wouldn't be rollerblading in shorts in the gay side of town.
And he likely wouldn't be a visible expert on Malibu Stacy. He
also wouldn't be known to the guys on the trolley. Instead,
he'd be dressing the same way at home, and live quietly.

Michael


Noah S

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Apr 13, 2003, 11:43:48 PM4/13/03
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My sense is that he's out w/in the Springfield gay community (whose size
does seem to fluctuate quite a bit). The thing is, in some episodes he
seems to be spending all of his free time w/ other gay men, while in other
episodes he doesn't seem to have any life outside of Mr. Burns & the plant.


"Jsonitsac" <jlos...@mwc.edu> wrote in message
news:74ef5c4c.03041...@posting.google.com...

graeme

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Apr 13, 2003, 11:47:17 PM4/13/03
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Tony Hill <th...@nyx.net> wrote in message news:<3E99DEAF...@nyx.net>...

This was definetly one of the best of the season. A few parts were
halarious (bart repressing memories, homers binging) Id give it an A-

AlannahLouis

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Apr 14, 2003, 12:34:40 AM4/14/03
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You are absolutely right, there was a time when we didn't see him much away
from work so he is probably more "flamboyant" in his personal life, which is
getting more exposure as the series goes on.

AlannahLouis

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Apr 14, 2003, 12:35:43 AM4/14/03
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AlannahLouis

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Apr 14, 2003, 12:38:16 AM4/14/03
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The previous reply is a good observation, it's sort of a contradiction.

Markc65

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Apr 14, 2003, 1:05:05 AM4/14/03
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>I'm not ranting or anything, I am just making an observation. I mean the
>represenstation of gay men on The Simpsons is getting more one-dimensional.

What about their representation of kilt wearing Scotsmen or slack-jawed, inbred
hillbilly yokels?

Markc65

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Apr 14, 2003, 1:41:54 AM4/14/03
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>>Would OFF make fun of any
>>other minority the way they pick on gays?
>
>Certainly not Hindus! . :)
>Seriously, though, I think the show is pretty much "equal oportunity" in its
>mockery. Even liberals and environmentalists get their share.

Just about every stereotype exists on the Simpsons.

Willie -- Bushy-haired, kilt wearing, Haggis eating, funny-accented Scotsman.

Luigi -- Chico Marx styled Italian accent, Mario Bros.-like mustache, and he is
a chef (that, along with organ grinder, opera singer and mobster [see Fat Tony
below] seem to be the main occuptions of Italians in Hollywood).

Fat Tony -- Italian Mobster

Cletus -- Inbred, slack-jawed yokel. He is also incredibly stupid like all
hillbillies on tv. Extra points for funny southern accent.

Apu & Sanjay -- Hindu who runs convenience store, has funny accent.

Montgomery Burns -- Greedy, hard-hearted robber baron.

The Flanders -- Overbearing and pollyanna-like, clean-living Christians.

Sea Captain -- Talks with an "arrh, Matey" type voice, like the stereotype of
an old salt.

Rainier Wolfcastle -- Austrian accented actor.

Uter -- German exchange student. Speaks with accent. Loves chocolate. Wears
lederhosen.

Dr. Nick -- Hungarian accent (?)

Lou -- Black cop with large genitalia.

Krusty -- Jewish entertainer stereotype.

Rabbi Krustofsky -- Speaks in Yiddish dialect. (There is also an unnamed old
man that speaks with the same dialect on the show.)

Bumblebee Man -- Mexican entertainer.

Texan -- Stereotype of a Texas oil millionaire. Wears Stenson hat and cowboy
belt buckle and boots. Speaks with a southwestern drawl.

Milhouse, Database and Prof. Frink -- Nerds

Mayor Quimby -- Corrupt, Kennedy-like politician. Speaks with Boston accent.

...and much, much more. So lighten up, folks!

Gyumaoh

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Apr 14, 2003, 4:12:59 AM4/14/03
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Does anybody even like these "gay episodes"? Does anybody find them funny?
Are these part of some sort of politically correct agenda that we are being
force-fed by the writers, or is it the complete opposite-- a simple-minded
"flaming fags are funny" mockery?

Either way, it isn't funny or "daring". I think Smithers is probably a much
more "daring" gay character for just being there as a regular for 13 years with
something to do besides "be gay".

Markc65

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Apr 14, 2003, 5:09:15 AM4/14/03
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>Does anybody even like these "gay episodes"? Does anybody find them funny?
>Are these part of some sort of politically correct agenda that we are being
>force-fed by the writers, or is it the complete opposite-- a simple-minded
>"flaming fags are funny" mockery?

It seems to be a combination of both.

>Either way, it isn't funny or "daring". I think Smithers is probably a much
>more "daring" gay character for just being there as a regular for 13 years
>with
>something to do besides "be gay".

The Simpsons, in general, stopped being a funny or daring show a long time ago.

Jsonitsac

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Apr 14, 2003, 8:31:04 AM4/14/03
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et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black) wrote in message news:


> It might be said that Smithers is quite open about his sexuality,
> just not with the people at work. If he was trying to hide it,
> he wouldn't be rollerblading in shorts in the gay side of town.
> And he likely wouldn't be a visible expert on Malibu Stacy. He
> also wouldn't be known to the guys on the trolley. Instead,
> he'd be dressing the same way at home, and live quietly.
>
> Michael

If Smithers were truly comfortable with himself then he wouldn't need
to hide it at work.

Ted S.

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Apr 14, 2003, 11:02:52 AM4/14/03
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Somebody claiming to be "Noah S" <noahs...@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in
news:U7qma.13853$Gb1....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:

>My sense is that he's out w/in the Springfield gay community (whose size
>does seem to fluctuate quite a bit).

Not necessarily. In the Season 13 episode that began with the Gay Pride
parade (no, I don't remember the title -- that's the problem with these
episodes that have an Act 1 unrelated to the main plot!) there was an "In
the Closet" float in which Smithers was in one closet, with Patty in the
other closet.
--
Ted Schuerzinger: change .spam to .net to reply by e-mail
Hmmm.... Eternal happiness for one dollar? [Pauses] On second thought,
I'd be happier *with* the dollar. --Montgomery Burns
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F01.html>

joey_schabadoo

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Apr 14, 2003, 12:34:27 PM4/14/03
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mar...@aol.com (Markc65) wrote in message news:<20030414050915...@mb-fn.aol.com>...

The Simpsons was very funny last night, making your point, in general, wrong.

Michael Black

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Apr 14, 2003, 4:51:10 PM4/14/03
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"Ted S." (fe...@bestweb.spam) writes:
> Somebody claiming to be "Noah S" <noahs...@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in
> news:U7qma.13853$Gb1....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:
>
>>My sense is that he's out w/in the Springfield gay community (whose size
>>does seem to fluctuate quite a bit).
>
> Not necessarily. In the Season 13 episode that began with the Gay Pride
> parade (no, I don't remember the title -- that's the problem with these
> episodes that have an Act 1 unrelated to the main plot!) there was an "In
> the Closet" float in which Smithers was in one closet, with Patty in the
> other closet.

Maybe that was just a role, like someone else would dress up in a clown
suit. They wanted a "closet" float, nobody wanted to do it, so he
said he would, proving his place in the gay community.

Michael

AlannahLouis

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Apr 14, 2003, 8:25:28 PM4/14/03
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The posters who lists many more one-dimensional characters are right, but to me
it just seems silly that EVERY SINGLE gay male in the community Homer moved
into was one-dimensoinally effeminate (this is also true in the plant he
visited in Homer's Phobia,etc). If there were more Scot characters on the show
and they were all wearing kilts, etc, then I would point that out as well.
Believe me I'm not going to stop watching my favorite show after fourteen years
just because they push the envelope for the sake of laughter, that is why I in
fact usually laugh. as for the Italian characters they are the second most
stereotyped group on the show. they can't put one on there that is just a
regular everyday guy? Maybe I'm mistaken, what is Moe's ethnicity?

Andrew Burns

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Apr 15, 2003, 12:01:25 AM4/15/03
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fon...@aol.com (AlannahLouis) wrote in message news:<20030413220136...@mb-fh.aol.com>...

> Smithers has been getting more flaming with each new season. At work he's
> always been self-contained but it seems the writers may be heading in a
> direction where his sexuality might be revealing itself on the job, too.

My theory was that Smithers was more along the lines of a "Burns-o-sexual"

Andrew Burns
"It's a word. You know why? 'Cause I say so, that's why!"

Markc65

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Apr 15, 2003, 3:05:42 AM4/15/03
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>The Simpsons was very funny last night, making your point, in general, wrong.

No, you are wrong, and you know it because it is a fact.

Markc65

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Apr 15, 2003, 3:13:23 AM4/15/03
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> what is Moe's ethnicity?

Moe is Polish. His last name is Szyslak. However in "Bart's Inner Child" (1F05)
Moe's inner child spoke with an Italian accent.

daM rettaH

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Apr 15, 2003, 3:41:44 AM4/15/03
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I should point out that when Homer and Burns went to Scotland, they
pointed out that every one there, even the women, looked and acted like
Willie.. so yeah... All their scots do act the same.. Plus, all their
elderly love Mattlock, and are basically the same level of
intelligence..

The Simpsons is a comedy, so everything is an extreme.. Every character
trait is an extreme. Homer can't just be a little dumb, he has to be so
dumb that people wonder how he remembers the blink.. His boss can't just
be mean, he has to be an evil villain.. Flanders can't be just
christian, he has to be blah blah blah.. You know what I mean!
Springfield's gay guys can't just be gay, they have to be EXTREME gay!

And if they had more indian characters on the show, you can bet they'd
all pretty much act like Apu..

The only extreme I've noticed that The Simpsons have avoided is doing
black stereotypes. Probably because *every* other comedy seems to touch
on the subject. I don't know.

---------------------
to coin something I read (after I wrote it), "Making sense is as over
rated as gerbil pellets".. <--- Wrap your brain around that one...
Unless of course you don't hate yourself...
http://community.webtv.net/Nebula_/MyMug

joey_schabadoo

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Apr 15, 2003, 1:38:00 PM4/15/03
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mar...@aol.com (Markc65) wrote in message news:<20030415030542...@mb-cr.aol.com>...

> >The Simpsons was very funny last night, making your point, in general, wrong.
>
> No, you are wrong, and you know it because it is a fact.

Which is the fact, that I'm wrong or that it wasn't funny? It was
funny, a number of people commented on it being one of the best this
season.

You said the Simpsons stopped being funny a long time ago, which is
clearly wrong as Sunday's was funny. I enjoy your pining for the old
days though, it's cute in a 'my grandfather talking about World War
II' sort of way.

Becks

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Apr 15, 2003, 4:35:57 PM4/15/03
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I think we're forgetting one important thing...... the reason *why* Waylon
chooses to live a dual life, toning it down at work.

I think he prefers to keep himself closeted at work because he's afraid he
might be rejected by Mr. Burns if the old man knew about his orientation.
Maybe Smithers doesn't want to risk losing Burns' friendship, especially as
they've known eachother for so long.

Not that Smithers needs to worry. Burnsie probably knows about him anyway,
and doesn't care.
--
Becks
http://www.toontalents.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Charles Montgomery Burns --
"Oh, meltdown. It's one of those annoying 'buzzwords.'
We prefer to call it an unrequested fission surplus."
~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~.~:


Michael Black

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Apr 15, 2003, 4:49:49 PM4/15/03
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"Becks" (r...@NOSPAMtinyonline.co.uk) writes:
> I think we're forgetting one important thing...... the reason *why* Waylon
> chooses to live a dual life, toning it down at work.
>
> I think he prefers to keep himself closeted at work because he's afraid he
> might be rejected by Mr. Burns if the old man knew about his orientation.
> Maybe Smithers doesn't want to risk losing Burns' friendship, especially as
> they've known eachother for so long.
>
> Not that Smithers needs to worry. Burnsie probably knows about him anyway,
> and doesn't care.

That's a good interpretatiion, because the only time Smithers gayness
shows up at work, unless I'm forgetting something, is when he blurts
out things to Mr Burns of a sexual nature. He does always cover
his remarks, and it could just as easily be because he is so smitten
with Mr. Burns that the rejection would be terrible than because
he is trying to hid his sexuality.

Michael

Markc65

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Apr 15, 2003, 6:16:27 PM4/15/03
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>Which is the fact, that I'm wrong or that it wasn't funny?

Why, both of course.

>You said the Simpsons stopped being funny a long time ago, which is
>clearly wrong as Sunday's was funny.

If you like mediocrity, that's fine. However, even the shows creators admit
that The Simpsons has lost its lustre. They also admit it's hard coming up with
new ideas and to avoid repeating themselves.

>I enjoy your pining for the old
>days though, it's cute in a 'my grandfather talking about World War
>II' sort of way.

Actually, I don't pine for the old days. I'm just an evil troll trying to bring
down the colossus that is The Simpsons with my negative carping.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

P.S. Matt Groening is fat.

Becks

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Apr 15, 2003, 6:32:58 PM4/15/03
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"Michael Black" <et...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:b7hr9d$kg6$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...

> That's a good interpretatiion, because the only time Smithers gayness
> shows up at work, unless I'm forgetting something, is when he blurts
> out things to Mr Burns of a sexual nature. He does always cover
> his remarks, and it could just as easily be because he is so smitten
> with Mr. Burns that the rejection would be terrible than because
> he is trying to hid his sexuality.
>

Yes, it's true. Smithers just can't cope with rejection. In all the 13
years we've known him he was at his most wretched state when Burns fired/
rejected him in the "Who Shot?" saga.

He just fell apart. What a mess.

So it's easy to understand why he wouldn't want to jeopardise his
relationship with Burns by coming out at work.

Smithers has got to be one of the most insecure characters in the show!

atariboy

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Apr 15, 2003, 9:42:10 PM4/15/03
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Definately the worst episode ever for Homer. He is my favorite
character, but IMHO this was out of bounds, too far and just
unexplainable. I can only guess that one or more of the writers /
producers / directors has some sick agenda. I am a big Simpsons fan
and it's my favorite show, but I think I'll just try and forget about
this pathetic uncalled for show. (Of course some of the rest of the
absolutely inconceivable crap on Fox is actually even worse!)
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