Kramer/Lily thing

[Leon A. Helguera]

Michelle Darrah wrote:
>
> This thing with Kramer calling Susan Lily has been bugging me. He didn't
> know the name of the person:
>
> 1) whose parents he drove around in the hansome cab for their anniversary?
> 2) whose girlfriend he stole?
> 3) whose father's cabin he burned down?
>
> So was the whole Lily thing just a Kramer quirk...as in Kramer decided
> that although he knew her name was Susan he'd like to call her Lily; or
> was it the writers' quick (and lazy, IMHO) way of distancing of the other
> characters from Susan, by trying to make us think Kramer never even knew
> her?
>
> Michelle

Dear Michelle,
The reason I believe that Kramer called Susan "Lily" seems to be
obvious to me! The name "Susan" means lily ( as in Black-Eyed Susan-
the human name was from the Hebrew name for the flower <not > the other
way around) ! There's a Book of the Apocrypha called "Susannah and the
Elders" about an innocent young woman who was nearly framed( and stoned)
for adultery after an attempted rape by corrupt Elders! Anyway in
Hebrew, her name was the same for lily! So I think that was what Kramer
was referring to! Walk Proud and Far,
Leon

.

[Monty D. Martin]

"Leon A. Helguera" <helg...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> wrote:

> Dear Michelle,
> The reason I believe that Kramer called Susan "Lily" seems to be
>obvious to me! The name "Susan" means lily ( as in Black-Eyed Susan-
>the human name was from the Hebrew name for the flower <not > the other
>way around) ! There's a Book of the Apocrypha called "Susannah and the
>Elders" about an innocent young woman who was nearly framed( and stoned)
>for adultery after an attempted rape by corrupt Elders! Anyway in
>Hebrew, her name was the same for lily! So I think that was what Kramer
>was referring to! Walk Proud and Far,
> Leon

That may be what the writers were refering to. Kramer on the other
hand didn't seem to have any idea that Susan means Lily.

Monty

--------------------------------------
"A cigar may be just a cigar, but Lanie, now she's a smoke." -- W.T. 'Doc' Pfefferle, PhD.

[L.B. Peep]

Michelle Darrah wrote:
>
> This thing with Kramer calling Susan Lily has been bugging me. He didn't
> know the name of the person:
>
> 1) whose parents he drove around in the hansome cab for their anniversary?
> 2) whose girlfriend he stole?
> 3) whose father's cabin he burned down?
>
> So was the whole Lily thing just a Kramer quirk...as in Kramer decided
> that although he knew her name was Susan he'd like to call her Lily; or
> was it the writers' quick (and lazy, IMHO) way of distancing of the other
> characters from Susan, by trying to make us think Kramer never even knew
> her?
>

"Leon A. Helguera" <helg...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
> The reason I believe that Kramer called Susan "Lily" seems to be
>obvious to me! The name "Susan" means lily ( as in Black-Eyed Susan-
>the human name was from the Hebrew name for the flower <not > the other
>way around) ! There's a Book of the Apocrypha called "Susannah and the
>Elders" about an innocent young woman who was nearly framed( and stoned)
>for adultery after an attempted rape by corrupt Elders! Anyway in
>Hebrew, her name was the same for lily! So I think that was what Kramer
>was referring to! Walk Proud and Far,

Monty D. Martin (car...@primenet.com) wrote:
: That may be what the writers were refering to. Kramer on the other

: hand didn't seem to have any idea that Susan means Lily.

Wasn't Kramer calling EVERYONE by the wrong names last week? Or the
week before? Because he got knocked in the head or something? My
memory is not so good for episodes I've only seen once, but I do recall
that there was an ongoing gag in a recent episode where he called both
Elaine and George by other names (as well as some other people?).
Somebody check your tapes, okay?

I thought THIS was why he called Susan Lily -- his head bump (or
whatever it was) was still in effect. And, since I already happened
to know that Susan means Lily, I thought it was pretty darn clever
of his subconscious to come up with a name that was _almost_ right.

Bo
--
LBP...@netcom.com This .signature intentionally left boring. O-

[dp7...@acad.drake.edu]

In article <lbpeepDr...@netcom.com>, lbp...@netcom.com (L.B. Peep) writes:
> Michelle Darrah wrote:
>>
>> This thing with Kramer calling Susan Lily has been bugging me. He didn't
>> know the name of the person:
>>
>> 1) whose parents he drove around in the hansome cab for their anniversary?
>> 2) whose girlfriend he stole?
>> 3) whose father's cabin he burned down?
>>
>> So was the whole Lily thing just a Kramer quirk...as in Kramer decided
>> that although he knew her name was Susan he'd like to call her Lily; or
>> was it the writers' quick (and lazy, IMHO) way of distancing of the other
>> characters from Susan, by trying to make us think Kramer never even knew
>> her?
>>

I think it was way out of character for Kramer not to remember a name.
He's the original "people person" -- he literally seems to thrive on
his relationships with other people and tends to use names more frequently
than most people (for example, he doesn't say "I knew a guy once who..."
but instead says "My friend Bob Sacamoto...").

This seems to me to be more evidence that there is something up with the
last episode that will be resolved in the first one next year. Seinfeld
is famous for tying up loose ends -- things that seem to be subplots
throughout an episode or episodes eventually come into play. That's
one of the things I admire about the writing. So it would be way out
of character for the writers to have Kramer calling Susan "Lily" and
then not have it come back somewhere down the line as part of a plot
twist.

Elaine saying she's "had it, I'm getting out," was also out of character,
as was (of course) Jerry's engagement.

Susan agreeing to get the cheap envelopes was even out of character.

*No* *one* in the episode was behaving in character except George, which
makes me believe it was George's dream, or fantasy, or something.

_______________________________________________________________________________
Dawn Price, Drake University
dp7...@acad.drake.edu

[RFerrie]

lbp...@netcom.com (L.B. Peep) wrote:
>Michelle Darrah wrote:
>>
>> This thing with Kramer calling Susan Lily has been bugging me. He didn't
>> know the name of the person:
>>
>> 1) whose parents he drove around in the hansome cab for their anniversary?
>> 2) whose girlfriend he stole?
>> 3) whose father's cabin he burned down?
>>
>> So was the whole Lily thing just a Kramer quirk...as in Kramer decided
>> that although he knew her name was Susan he'd like to call her Lily; or
>> was it the writers' quick (and lazy, IMHO) way of distancing of the other
>> characters from Susan, by trying to make us think Kramer never even knew
>> her?
>>
>

>"Leon A. Helguera" <helg...@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> wrote:
>> The reason I believe that Kramer called Susan "Lily" seems to be
>>obvious to me! The name "Susan" means lily ( as in Black-Eyed Susan-
>>the human name was from the Hebrew name for the flower <not > the other
>>way around) ! There's a Book of the Apocrypha called "Susannah and the
>>Elders" about an innocent young woman who was nearly framed( and stoned)
>>for adultery after an attempted rape by corrupt Elders! Anyway in
>>Hebrew, her name was the same for lily! So I think that was what Kramer
>>was referring to! Walk Proud and Far,
>
>Monty D. Martin (car...@primenet.com) wrote:
>: That may be what the writers were refering to. Kramer on the other
>: hand didn't seem to have any idea that Susan means Lily.
>
>Wasn't Kramer calling EVERYONE by the wrong names last week? Or the
>week before? Because he got knocked in the head or something? My
>memory is not so good for episodes I've only seen once, but I do recall
>that there was an ongoing gag in a recent episode where he called both
>Elaine and George by other names (as well as some other people?).
>Somebody check your tapes, okay?
>
>I thought THIS was why he called Susan Lily -- his head bump (or
>whatever it was) was still in effect. And, since I already happened
>to know that Susan means Lily, I thought it was pretty darn clever
>of his subconscious to come up with a name that was _almost_ right.
>
>Bo

Amazing that nobody's suggesting Kramer has latent precognitive
abilities by feeling Susan "looked like" a Lily, when we all know
that lilies are flowers very much associated with funerals.

[Scott Goodhart]

Maybe Kramer calling Susan Lily is a way to bring back Susan in
then next season? Her unrealated identical twin shows up and Kramer goes
more insane and calls her Susan. George falls for Lily and she won't
have anything to do with him??
Just a thought. The Lily thing seemed to forced to be just a
throw away.
--
Scoman's Homepage
Musician/Web page designer/Scanning service/Graphic and computer art
http://www.sysconn.com/Scoman/scoman1.htm

[Daniel Kravetz]

As has been pointed out, the name "Susan" does mean "lily." It
is derived from the Hebrew name "Shoshana" which means "lily"
and "rose" as well. Interestingly enough, Jerry Seinfeld's
real-life girlfriend was (is?) named Shoshana Lonstein, making
Kramer's "mistake" something of an inside joke.