SEINFELD = ANTI-IRISH BIGOTS
Simon
In <32A063...@port.net> Steven Eccles <ecc...@port.net> writes:
>
>A few years back I came across a Seinfeld episode were Seinfeld and
>'Pretzel Bay' got caught in an world Nazi fest in NYC
>
>The two got stuck in a limo with the leaders of the world nazi
>movement who were both Irish from Ireland
>
>Their names were something like Murphy and Fitzpatrick
>
>The had come to America to expose the "Zionists World Government" and
>made statments about being from Dublin and the green rolling hills of
>Erin and other shit like that.
>
>Funny all my life I taught that the German rounded up the jews gassed
>them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
>Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>
>I am cross-posting this protest to the Irish and celtic newsgroups
>maybe one day the thick Irish-Americans will get the message that they
>do not live in the Corn Beef and Cabbage fantasy-land they think they
>do.
I think you're reading *way* too much into it. The episode was
meant to say something about ant-Semitism, and do it in a funny way.
Nobody was accusing the Irish of causing WW2.
Mr. Clean
In <32A063...@port.net> Steven Eccles <ecc...@port.net> writes:
>
>A few years back I came across a Seinfeld episode were Seinfeld and
>'Pretzel Bay' got caught in an world Nazi fest in NYC
>
>The two got stuck in a limo with the leaders of the world nazi
>movement who were both Irish from Ireland
>
>them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
>Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>
And then some stupid yank wrote:
>I think you're reading *way* too much into it. The episode was
>meant to say something about ant-Semitism, and do it in a funny way.
>Nobody was accusing the Irish of causing WW2.
What the hell does that mean? I saw that episode here on Channel 4 in
England with my girlfreind who's family is from Ireland (I am Jewish of
Czech background) and we were sick to our stomachs. I sorry mate, but
that episode went out of its way to paint the Irish as leaders of the
Nazi world movement. Perhaps the writers of the episode were too in love
with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
Irish.
Let me tell you moron, there was nothing "funny" about what happened in
Germany 50 years ago. Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
the least anti-semitic people, fact.
What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
kap...@hawaii.edu
You know, it's reeeeely simple. If you don't like what you're watching...
now listen children....TURN OFF THE T.V.!!! Now THERE'S an idea!!
OOOOOOO..
Abby
Mr. Clean wrote:
[snip]
> >Funny all my life I taught that the German rounded up the jews gassed
> >them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
> >Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>
> And then some stupid yank wrote:
>
> >I think you're reading *way* too much into it. The episode was
> >meant to say something about ant-Semitism, and do it in a funny way.
> >Nobody was accusing the Irish of causing WW2.
>
> with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
> would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
> Irish.
Now, what the hell does THAT mean????
> Let me tell you moron, there was nothing "funny" about what happened >in
> Germany 50 years ago.
No kidding. Really? Jeez, I bet Jerry SEINFELD didn't know that.
> Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
> the least anti-semitic people, fact.
Fact from where?
> What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
It's called humor. If you would come out from under your anti-American,
ultra-PC umbrella, you might understand.
-Abby
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose.
That is not a weakness. That is life."
J-L Picard
MH Roberts
Mr. Clean spewed forth the following dribble:
[snip a lot of complete tosh]
) What the hell does that mean? I saw that episode here on Channel 4 in
) England with my girlfreind who's family is from Ireland (I am Jewish of
) Czech background) and we were sick to our stomachs. I sorry mate, but
) that episode went out of its way to paint the Irish as leaders of the
) Nazi world movement. Perhaps the writers of the episode were too in love
) with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
) would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
) Irish.
Ever heard of 'taking the piss'? The joke isn't on the Irish, it's on you
because you have no sense of humour and are too touchy.
) What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
Most Americans are fine people (and they make great comedy shows). What is
wrong with you should be the question. Now get back under that rock you
crawled out from under.
Mel.
--
_________________________________________________________________________
_/_/_/ Melfyn Roberts : u5...@keele.ac.uk \_\_\_
/_/_/+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=-+=+\_\_\
_/_/ "Suicide hotline... please hold" \_\_
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barry Gaudet
kap...@hawaii.edu wrote:
: You know, it's reeeeely simple. If you don't like what you're watching...
: now listen children....TURN OFF THE T.V.!!! Now THERE'S an idea!!
: OOOOOOO..
Perhaps they should get together with the guys who think Seinfeld ridicules
Japanese Men. They contradict each other when they both claim the show
singles out only [insert your group here] for ridicule.
Remember: If you single out everyone for ridicule your are singling out
no one.
Also: Was anyone upset with Uncle Leo's portrayal as a Jew who blames
_everyone_ for being an anti-semite? Of course not. Do know why? Because
its a joke!
Susan Rankin
In article <32A133...@allmodcons.uk.net>, cl...@allmodcons.uk.net says...
>Let me tell you moron, there was nothing "funny" about what happened in
>Germany 50 years ago. Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
>the least anti-semitic people, fact.
>
>What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
Simple. Our television writers are idiots. Look at some of the crap that comes out of
my country (I am of the opinion that I really don't belong here!); Baywatch - more commonly
known as Buttwatch or Boobwatch, Melrose Place - AKA Melrose PUKE, every other
Aaron Spelling show in existance...come to think of it, Aaron Spelling is to blame for about
50% of bad American TV, I mean, he dressed his own daughter in hot pant shorts to put the
Christmas tree topper on resulting a serious wedgie JUST TO GET RATINGS!
I myself am very picky about what I watch. I like the British shows that we get here (Are
You Being Served, Monty Python, Mr. Bean, Black Adder, etc.), certain cartoon series, and
some learning shows (nature, home improvement, history, etc.). There are a few good
prime time shows, it's not all bad. "Pearl" is good...they alleded to the Scots awhile back
where the stuffy professor's charismatic brother, who he hates, shows up with their father's
ashes. They end up reconcilling, dressing in full Scottish attire (great notes taken that
night!), sang songs, and and toasted their father at midnight. "The Nanny"is pretty funny,
too. I have to say I never liked Seinfeld. Matter of fact, I've never liked any shows that
have had so much hype made of them. If a show is truly good, it doesn't need it. Thank the
heavens for specialized cable channels.
Susan
Susan Rankin
In article <57s3a9$f...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk>, u5...@cc.keele.ac.uk says...
>) What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
>
>Most Americans are fine people (and they make great comedy shows). What is
>wrong with you should be the question. Now get back under that rock you
>crawled out from under.
Let's all consider one important thing here. We, as Americans, have never felt
the agony and scarring of foreign invasion/war (Pearl Harbor excepted) on our soil. We are
wrong in thinking that Europeans don't have every right to be as sensitive as they are or
may be about such a topic as WWII. Jerry Seinfeld showed great lack of judgement in his
writing by not considering the effects of a show that is syndicated world-wide. What if the
targetted group had been black, jewish, hispanic, italian, or what-have-you? Just because
something might actually be considered funny here in America, doesn't mean it would or
should be funny somewhere else.
Susan
Anthony M Annett
In article <32A133...@allmodcons.uk.net>,
Mr. Clean <cl...@allmodcons.uk.net> wrote:
>In <32A063...@port.net> Steven Eccles <ecc...@port.net> writes:
>>
>>A few years back I came across a Seinfeld episode were Seinfeld and
>>'Pretzel Bay' got caught in an world Nazi fest in NYC
>>
>>The two got stuck in a limo with the leaders of the world nazi
>>movement who were both Irish from Ireland
>>
>>them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
>>Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>What the hell does that mean? I saw that episode here on Channel 4 in
>England with my girlfreind who's family is from Ireland (I am Jewish of
>Czech background) and we were sick to our stomachs. I sorry mate, but
>that episode went out of its way to paint the Irish as leaders of the
>Nazi world movement. Perhaps the writers of the episode were too in love
>with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
>would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
>Irish.
I'm a bit lost here. I've seen the episode in question, and don't get the
Irish connection. Was it the name? But then again, Seinfeld is never
renowned for accuracy when it comes to politics. The worst example of
this is when Kramer thinks he has met Salman Rushdie in the gym, and takes
as a piece of evidence that the man in question had spent a lot of time
in the Middle East. For Christ's sake, Rushdie is from Bombay and lived
in London!
Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy
that can even compre to British classics like Blackadder. I just can't
figure out why it's not popular in Ireland or Britain.
Tony
"The lunatic...doesn't concern himself at all with logic; he works by
short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else...You can tell
him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of
inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars"
Scribbler
Anthony M Annett wrote:
>
> I'm a bit lost here. I've seen the episode in question, and don't get the
> Irish connection. Was it the name?
I didn't either, Anthony, though I admit it's been months since I saw
that episode. I'd have to see it again to be sure. The only thing I
noted about the names Murphy and Fitzgerald is that they are arch-Jewish
"goy" names (stereotypically), meant to play off Jerry's religion. I
didn't think it had to do with Irishness as much as it had to do with
plain Xianity in general--the standard denomination(s) of neo-nazis in N.
America. The names seemed intended only to signal the fact that Murphy
and Fitz (in our assuming minds) were definitey not Jewish. "Murphy" as
a name, BTW (to the Irish and English fellows who were up in arms over a
*troll*), has lost its Irishness over here in N. America--that is, it
doesn't necessarily equate to Erin roots anymore--it's one of those N.
American "mutt" names, now, after so many generations on this side of the
pond (I can say that, I have one of those mutt names myself!). In fact,
I always took Murphy to be more on the Scottish side? <shrug> In Canada,
anyway.
> Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy
> that can even compre to British classics like Blackadder. I just can't
> figure out why it's not popular in Ireland or Britain.
I'm still responding to you, Anthony, and not to the *obvious* troll who
posted the original statement. I'm curious, too. Is it an actual *fact*
that Seinfeld didn't catch on in the Isles (Emerald and otherwise), or
are you just going by the thread? I'd think it would be one of the few
American sitcoms worth importing--let alone worth watching. It's such an
original. I hope somebody in the know can answer our question.
Scribbler
Mr. Clean
> Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy that can even compre to British classics like Blackadder.
WHAT??????????????
The yank will be equating Heuy Lewis and the News to the Sex Pistols
next.
Mr. Clean
Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
boycott of the programs sponsors.
Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
them.
These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
Jeff Tremble
David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol> wrote:
>>As to Seinfeld... Remember the episode where George was chided because
>>he had no African-American friends? Or the one where Jerry asked a
>>Chinese mailman where the nearest Chinese restaurant was? Or their
>>feelings about a Jewish bris? Or the episodes where they volunteered
>>to help elderly people? Or Babu from Pakistan? And so on.
>>I honestly do not think Seinfeld's decision to use the Irish for that
>>particular show is indicative of anything.
>Really, it tells me that the SEINFELD writers are obsessed with racial
>politics. Like the Third Reich perhaps?
Nah, I don't think so.
Jeff Tremble - will program for food, coffee, net access.
** Slow Modem?? Download the next few pages while
** reading the current page. For a new, better browser
** try http://www.toolstoys.com jtr...@toolstoys.com
Jeff Tremble
dav...@ix.netcom.com (David Shepherd) wrote:
>>Lighten up--it's just a tv show!
> Yeah no kidding. Jerry Seinfeld is jewish and he's made fun of
>Jewish people on a few episodes. I really don't think the writers
>have anything against any one ethnic group. It's just what is funny
>and the ratings don't lie. I happen to be english and I have seen
>Jerry make fun of english people but do I give a toss NO! Because
>it's all in good humour. It's funny!
Doesn't it make you wonder what these people are doing watching
Seinfeld if they have no sense of humor??
What's next?? Impotent men complaining about porno films?? Starving
people complaining about cooking shows??
Scribbler
Oh my.
Well, as a Canadian, I must say (while we're at it), that if we're to
protest this sort of thing, we *have to* bombard the writers/producers
and actors (yes! they who without conscience *uttered* the foul remarks!)
of Mad About You, which deliberately sets out to belittle the Canadian
people every few episodes, like fine clockwork! A smack across my cheek
every time I'm subjected to such a retort!
<shaking with righteous anger in Ottawa>
Scribbler
Sheldon Scott
Scribbler wrote:
>
> Is it an actual *fact*
> that Seinfeld didn't catch on in the Isles (Emerald and otherwise), or
> are you just going by the thread? I'd think it would be one of the few
> American sitcoms worth importing--let alone worth watching. It's such an
> original. I hope somebody in the know can answer our question.
>
> Scribbler
Well, in the UK at least we had it on BBC2 (arts, news, general special
interest viewing), and it was on Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 11:30pm.
Hence, it was never going to have a big audience. I think though as
BBC2 goes it had a fairly respectable following.
Personally, I didn't think it was absolutly wonderful, but a hell of an
improvement on "Friends" and "Frasier" (Ugh!). We didn't have a moral
shoved down out throats every other minute, and, most importantly, it
was actually funny.
Now Larry Sanders, he WAS funny...
Shell
Brent Madden
Mr. Clean wrote:
>
> Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
>
> Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
> boycott of the programs sponsors.
>
> Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
> Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
> them.
>
> These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
> corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
>
> The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
>
> I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
> massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
> for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
Lighten up--it's just a tv show!
Anthony M Annett
In article <57t5ms$m...@news.istar.ca>, Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>I'm still responding to you, Anthony, and not to the *obvious* troll who
>are you just going by the thread? I'd think it would be one of the few
>American sitcoms worth importing--let alone worth watching. It's such an
>original. I hope somebody in the know can answer our question.
I just hasn't caught on in Britain and Ireland. I know it's shown on
late nights on either Channel 4 or BBC2 in Britain, and certainly has
not taken off as much as more mundane US sitcoms (such as Friends) has.
I don't get it: Seinfeld is so original, and hilarious.
Anthony M Annett
In article <32A24A...@allmodcons.uk.net>,
Please, just because I post from the US does not mean I am a "yank".
Actually, I am Irish and stand by my claim: Seinfeld can be as funny as
the best of British comedy. And I say this as a major fan of British
comedy.
Scribbler
Anthony M Annett wrote:
>
> I just hasn't caught on in Britain and Ireland. I know it's shown on
> late nights on either Channel 4 or BBC2 in Britain, and certainly has
> not taken off as much as more mundane US sitcoms (such as Friends) has.
> I don't get it: Seinfeld is so original, and hilarious.
It is. Watching it I'm always reminded of Albee's plays, for some
reason. Larry David (tho he left after last season, I believe) sure
had a similar ear for real dialogue. IMO, the characters on that sitcom
are the only *real-life* people ever to appear in the genre. Warts and
all, so to speak.
Scribbler
Patrick A. Ferrel
I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
The writers could have very easily used German or generic WASPy names for
the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
don't just pull a name out of the air and get Colin Murphy or John
O'Brien. You get names like Susan Ross and Tim Whatley and the names of
the people who work for the Yankees - Whitman, Logan, etc. J. Peterman.
Mr. Pitt. All generic names. Then you have other names which are
probably the names of friends of the writers. I bet Art Vandelay and Bob
Saccamano are friends of Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld. And Mr.
Bevelacqua is probably the name of one of their gym teachers.
Excuuuuse me for being upset that the writers slandered Irish
people and Irish Americans. There is absolutely no reason why the
Nazis had to have Irish names.
At least in the episode that upset Japanese people they had the
television executive who saw right through the crap George was trying to
sell.
---
Patrick Ferrel = pfe...@syr.edu
Buffalo '95 -=-=- Syracuse '97
Joan M. Donahue
On 3 Dec 1996, Anthony M Annett wrote:
| In article <57vosr$b...@newstand.syr.edu>,
| Patrick A. Ferrel <pfe...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
| >I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
| >didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
| >
| >The writers could have very easily used German or generic WASPy names for
| >the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
|
| Well if you want to dig deeper into this phenomenon, look no further than
| that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
| catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
| its close to zero.
| Not that I really care about this sort of thing, by the way...
Tony,
What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
Wasn't her Dad from the North, and that's why the plantation was named
Tara? I'm really curious as to what tipped you off.
-joan
|
| Tony
|
|
|
| "The lunatic...doesn't concern himself at all with logic; he works by
| short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else...You can tell
| him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of
| inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars"
|
|
-joan donahue
a member of the religious left
Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or
any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not
tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet
understand them as he ought.
St. Augustine
Anthony M Annett
In article <57vosr$b...@newstand.syr.edu>,
Patrick A. Ferrel <pfe...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
>didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
>
>The writers could have very easily used German or generic WASPy names for
>the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
Well if you want to dig deeper into this phenomenon, look no further than
that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
its close to zero.
Not that I really care about this sort of thing, by the way...
Tony
leg...@aol.com
In article <57vosr$b...@newstand.syr.edu>, pfe...@newstand.syr.edu
(Patrick A. Ferrel) writes:
>Excuuuuse me for being upset that the writers slandered Irish
>people and Irish Americans. There is absolutely no reason why the
>Nazis had to have Irish names.
>
>At least in the episode that upset Japanese people they had the
>television executive who saw right through the crap George was trying to
>sell.
>
>
>
I think they just wanted the total opposite of Nazi... something that
would never be associated with the Nazi Regime....thats all...
and again, its Television....
It Shrinks...???
Just Me, Lisa
Leg...@aol.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Get the honey!"
------------------------- "Fatso"
David Harding
>I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
>didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the >Nazis?"
Not only that they stated they were from Dublin. And to think some prats
are claiming there is no Irish connection in that episode!!!!!!!!
David Harding
The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
to.
Neil Alasdair McEwan
Scribbler wrote:
:
: Is it an actual *fact*
: that Seinfeld didn't catch on in the Isles (Emerald and otherwise), or
: are you just going by the thread? I'd think it would be one of the few
: American sitcoms worth importing--let alone worth watching. It's such an
: original. I hope somebody in the know can answer our question.
: Scribbler
The last time I visited my relations in Belfast (in 1994) I tried to
get my aunt and uncle to watch Seinfeld, which they'd never heard of
previously (I spotted it myself in the listings). After about twenty
minutes of the show, and of stone-faced silence on their part, I asked
them what they thought of it. "Well," my uncle said, "It's kind of cold,
isn't it?" Actually, I suppose it is, though I'd never thought about it
that way. The show that was most popular with them at that time was "Red
Dwarf", which is a different kind of humour altogether -- silly, a little
childish but very endearing, which would also characterize shows like
"Mr. Bean", or describe the brief "Mr. Blobby" craze. US humour by
contrast tends to run to extremes either of revolting saccharine
blandness (as in most sitcoms) or of incisive and often cruel wit
(Seinfeld, The Simpsons, sometimes even Beavis and Butthead). It's
interesting that a nation so often characterized (by Europeans particularly)
as anti-intellectual produces as much intelligent satire as it does.
le meas,
Neil A. McEwan
--
Jim McDonnell
In article <57svle$7v$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu> am...@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (Anthony M Annett) writes:
>From: am...@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (Anthony M Annett)
>Subject: Re: SEINFELD = ANTI-IRISH BIGOTS
>Date: 1 Dec 1996 22:08:46 GMT
>I'm a bit lost here. I've seen the episode in question, and don't get the
>Irish connection. Was it the name? But then again, Seinfeld is never
>renowned for accuracy when it comes to politics. The worst example of
>this is when Kramer thinks he has met Salman Rushdie in the gym, and takes
>as a piece of evidence that the man in question had spent a lot of time
>in the Middle East. For Christ's sake, Rushdie is from Bombay and lived
>in London!
>Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy
>that can even compre to British classics like Blackadder. I just can't
>figure out why it's not popular in Ireland or Britain.
>Tony
Tony,
May I add a word of support?
I remember that episode and cannot recall the Irish connection. It certainly
couldn't have been offensive.
It seems to me that episode ran about 4, maybe 5, years ago. This seems like
a very late date to start complaining.
But really, the Irish Nazi slant made no impression on me!
Jim
Sheldon Scott
Patrick A. Ferrel wrote:
>
> I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
> didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
>
> the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
> O'Brien.
> Excuuuuse me for being upset that the writers slandered Irish
> people and Irish Americans. There is absolutely no reason why the
> Nazis had to have Irish names.
>
> Patrick Ferrel = pfe...@syr.edu
> Buffalo '95 -=-=- Syracuse '97
What is the point of all this? This whole thing stinks of over-analysis
and paranioa. Some people seem to go out of their way to be offended.
And what makes matters worse is the whole argument was started by a
troll.
Prozac all round!
Shell.
P.S. Maybe someone would like to bring the conspiracy theory newgroup in
as well?
es
"Joan M. Donahue" <jo...@mcs.net> wrote:
>What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
>was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
>some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
>She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
>Wasn't her Dad from the North, and that's why the plantation was named
>Tara? I'm really curious as to what tipped you off.
Scarlett's Dad was from Ireland, his ancestral home there was called
Tara. The Catholicism may have beed inferred from country of origin.
As to Seinfeld... Remember the episode where George was chided because
he had no African-American friends? Or the one where Jerry asked a
Chinese mailman where the nearest Chinese restaurant was? Or their
feelings about a Jewish bris? Or the episodes where they volunteered
to help elderly people? Or Babu from Pakistan? And so on.
I honestly do not think Seinfeld's decision to use the Irish for that
particular show is indicative of anything.
>| "The lunatic...doesn't concern himself at all with logic; he works by
>| short circuits. For him, everything proves everything else...You can tell
>| him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of
>| inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars"
>|
>|
>-joan donahue
Susan Rankin
In article <32A24A...@allmodcons.uk.net>, cl...@allmodcons.uk.net says...
>
>> Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy that can even
compre to British classics like Blackadder.
>
>
>
>The yank will be equating Heuy Lewis and the News to the Sex Pistols
>next.
ROFL!
Susan
Susan Rankin
In article <57tjai$9...@news.istar.ca>, scri...@istar.ca says...
>Well, as a Canadian, I must say (while we're at it), that if we're to
>protest this sort of thing, we *have to* bombard the writers/producers
>and actors (yes! they who without conscience *uttered* the foul remarks!)
>of Mad About You, which deliberately sets out to belittle the Canadian
>people every few episodes, like fine clockwork! A smack across my cheek
>every time I'm subjected to such a retort!
>
><shaking with righteous anger in Ottawa>
>Scribbler
You know what's funny? I never seem to see any of the shows accused of such things...
Guess I have better taste in TV than I thought!
Susan - occassional Sour Kraut, and proud of it!
Anthony M Annett
In article <Pine.BSF.3.95.961202...@Venus.mcs.net>,
>
>| Patrick A. Ferrel <pfe...@mailbox.syr.edu> wrote:
>| >I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
>| >didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
>| >
>| >The writers could have very easily used German or generic WASPy names for
>| >the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
>|
>| that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
>| catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
>| its close to zero.
>| Not that I really care about this sort of thing, by the way...
>
>
>What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
>was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
>some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
>She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
>Wasn't her Dad from the North, and that's why the plantation was named
>Tara? I'm really curious as to what tipped you off.
>
been able to sit through that dreadful movie. The argument I have heard
is this (and I'n repeating it without necessarily endorsing it): this story
reflected the strident anti-catholicism in the US at the time. Of course,
it is subtle, as catholicism is never mentioned. But the implication is
clear: the main protanganists (decadent slave-owners) were catholic of
Irish descent (not Scotch-Irish). Tara, by the way, is not in the North.
Tony
Rob Worsnop
Anthony M Annett wrote:
> Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy
> that can even compre to British classics like Blackadder. I just can't
> figure out why it's not popular in Ireland or Britain.
>
Nah. "Dream On" is far superior!
Rob.
BlackBeard
In article <32A3EC...@microulz.iol>, David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol>
wrote:
> The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
> to.
Someone list this one in the "Moronic, sweeping generalisations and
exaggerations" log.
Sean P
BlackBeard
-. .- -..- --.-
De Profundis
Submarines once, Submarines twice...
Scribbler
Neil Alasdair McEwan wrote:
>
> The last time I visited my relations in Belfast (in 1994) I tried to
> get my aunt and uncle to watch Seinfeld, which they'd never heard of
> previously (I spotted it myself in the listings). After about twenty
> minutes of the show, and of stone-faced silence on their part, I asked
> them what they thought of it. "Well," my uncle said, "It's kind of cold,
> isn't it?" Actually, I suppose it is, though I'd never thought about it
> that way. The show that was most popular with them at that time was "Red
> Dwarf", which is a different kind of humour altogether -- silly, a little
> childish but very endearing, which would also characterize shows like
> "Mr. Bean", or describe the brief "Mr. Blobby" craze. US humour by
> contrast tends to run to extremes either of revolting saccharine
> blandness (as in most sitcoms) or of incisive and often cruel wit
> (Seinfeld, The Simpsons, sometimes even Beavis and Butthead). It's
> interesting that a nation so often characterized (by Europeans particularly)
> as anti-intellectual produces as much intelligent satire as it does.
I have to scratch my head alongside you on that one. I would think that
a nation(s) which adores Ab/Fab and Pythons would appreciate the bite of
the best Yankee sitcoms. It's odd. I can only venture a guess that
perhaps too much goes over their heads when it comes to Seinfeld,
Simpsons and Frazier (ie) because of the cultural references...that is,
all too often, domestic shows make in-jokes aimed at domestic audiences,
whether sitcoms or britcoms, using politics/headlines du jour which may
not be known across the pond. IMO this could be part of it.
Scribbler
David Shepherd
On Mon, 02 Dec 1996 02:31:10 -0600, Brent Madden <br...@midamer.net>
wrote:
Yeah no kidding. Jerry Seinfeld is jewish and he's made fun of
Jewish people on a few episodes. I really don't think the writers
have anything against any one ethnic group. It's just what is funny
and the ratings don't lie. I happen to be english and I have seen
Jerry make fun of english people but do I give a toss NO! Because
it's all in good humour. It's funny!
David
------
David Shepherd
dav...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netservers.com/~dshepher
John Jacobs
Patrick A. Ferrel wrote:
>
> I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though > I didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the > Nazis?"
>
> The writers could have very easily used German or generic WASPy names >for the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names.
Are you assuming that all Nazi's were German or Wasp's??? I think
you may be the bigot. Nazi's came (and come) in all ethnic groups.
During WWII, Nazis' could be found all over, Morroco, to Greece, Russia,
to Italy, etc.
> Excuuuuse me for being upset that the writers slandered Irish
> people and Irish Americans. There is absolutely no reason why the
> Nazis had to have Irish names.
I think Seinfeld used the Irish sounding names as not to tip off
the viewers as to what was going to come in the plot. If they would have
called the two people Adolf Himmler and Claus Eichman you might have
seen where the story was going.
Irish are probably the least likely people to be Nazis, plus Jerry
and george could pass for and O'brien and Murphy so the limo driver and
the two assistant(bodyguards) wouldn't have noticed.
Of course they could have use eastern names like Dong Tse Ping and
Hyamota Nagisaki but i doubt the limo driver would have belived that
Jerry and George were Asian.
Big John
Tom Hagen: "I'm German Irish"
Mr. Welsch: "Well let me tell you something my Kraut Mick friend..."
David Harding
>As to Seinfeld... Remember the episode where George was chided because
>he had no African-American friends? Or the one where Jerry asked a
>Chinese mailman where the nearest Chinese restaurant was? Or their
>feelings about a Jewish bris? Or the episodes where they volunteered
>to help elderly people? Or Babu from Pakistan? And so on.
>I honestly do not think Seinfeld's decision to use the Irish for that
>particular show is indicative of anything.
Really, it tells me that the SEINFELD writers are obsessed with racial
politics. Like the Third Reich perhaps?
Michael R. Gessner
On 1 Dec 1996, Susan Rankin wrote:
>
> Let's all consider one important thing here. We, as Americans, have never felt
> the agony and scarring of foreign invasion/war (Pearl Harbor excepted) on our soil. We are
> wrong in thinking that Europeans don't have every right to be as sensitive as they are or
> may be about such a topic as WWII. Jerry Seinfeld showed great lack of judgement in his
No invasion? How 'bout: The War of 1812?, The Revoluionary War?
P.C. Kilinskas
In article <32A3EC...@microulz.iol>,
David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol> wrote:
>The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
>to.
Hmmm... I wonder where this "iol" fellow hails from. What an outstanding
example of class. His country must be proud.
Chris Pierson
In article <Pine.APO.3.91.96120...@typhoon.Berkeley.EDU>,
True enough. Heck, we came down from Upper Canada and burned down the
White House, 180+ years before ID4! :)
>The Revoluionary War?
NOT an invasion. This was terrorism that escalated the guerrilla war, that
further escalated to revolution. There were no "invaders" -- just Brits
trying (and failing) to hold on to their territory.
--
****************************************************************************
Chris Pierson ** Films to watch for: Swingers, Albino Alligator, Shine,
Game Designer ** Mother, Breaking the Waves, Prisoner of the Mountains
****************************************************************************
William December Starr
In article <57s7et$9...@picasso.op.net>,
sra...@op.net (Susan Rankin) said:
> Let's all consider one important thing here. We, as Americans,
> have never felt the agony and scarring of foreign invasion/war
> (Pearl Harbor excepted) on our soil.
True.
> We are wrong in thinking that Europeans don't have every right to
> be as sensitive as they are or may be about such a topic as WWII.
Not true. It was over fifty years ago. Being sensitive about the
re-emergence of the same sorts of idiocy that led to the Long War
(WWI, intermission and WWII) is one thing, being knee-jerk
sensitive about the whole topic is quite another.
-- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>
Morgan Robertson
David Harding wrote:
>
> The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
> to.
The above statement just proves to the internet community that this git
*himself* watches far too much TV.
Why don't YOU turn the set off and hop on a plane and spend about six
months traveling around the States. To meet the *real* US citizens -- not
the stereotypical BS that Hollywood stuffs down people's throats
worldwide.
Just as everyone here has been angered by what is perceived as Seifeld's
bigoted storyline --- you have bought into *all* the stereotypes of
American television. Two wrongs *don't* make one right. Lighten up and
turn off the tube and try to learn the truth! If you are capable of it!
Morgan
--
/
*/ / / / / / { <>==================>
\ Garg'n uair dhuisgear
John Marcus
First of all it was Murphy and O'Brien, not Fitzpatrick.
Secondly, although I am in no way saying the Irish are more or
less anti-semetic than any other nationality, one should note the
fact that Ireland didn't bother to take a side in the second world
war, didn't condemn Hitler or the Nazis and remained neutral in
perhaps the most morally justifiable war in history (in its defense,
Ireland simply couldn't stomach allying with Britain, which had
done to it for centuries what Germany had in mind for Europe in
1939; and it has faithfully remained a neutral, pacifist nation
ever since).
All that aside, it was obvious that Seinfeld or his writer was
making fun of Jerry's ignorance on political/geographic matters
or anything that goes on outside his own little world. It was
hilariously absurd that Jerry made his Nazi Irish; it was
wonderfully moronic when he said he came from the green *fields*
of Dublin and it was self-deprecatingly funny when one of the
neo-Nazis said of Jerry's ridiculous fake accent "that sounds
more like a Scottish accent" and he said "we lived near the border."
Now, I think even Seinfeld knows Ireland is an island separated
from Scotland by a sea, and I think his writers suspected their
viewers to know to. So, laugh! Laugh at thick Jerry the
character, not Seinfeld the auteur!
BTW, my dad's a Jew and my wife's from Ireland, where I lived
for awhile too, and we both laughed at the stupidity of both
Jerry and George AND the neo-Nazis....
John/jma...@prairienet.org
--
Forrest Tanaka
In article <32A24E...@allmodcons.uk.net>, "Mr. Clean"
<cl...@allmodcons.uk.net> wrote:
> Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
>
> Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
> boycott of the programs sponsors.
>
> Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
> Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
> them.
>
> These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
> corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
>
> The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
>
> I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
> massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
> for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
OK. I'm Japanese-American, and I'm married to a Chinese-American. I
suppose I could watch an episode of Seinfeld and think that all Chinese
are callous restauranteurs with little grasp of English and even less
grasp of manners. Yes, I suppose we could all think that...if we were all
morons. Yes, that episode showed a cultural stereotype--but one that's
commonly true if you walk into many Chinese restaurants and grocery
stores. All Chinese restaurants and grocery stores? No, hardly. But I
think I can watch a Seinfeld episode and know that not all Chinese
restaurants are like that, and that some are. And I can laugh because it
was pretty funny regardless.
Do we have to tailor every TV show to make sure the stupidest people on
the planet don't get the wrong idea?
I don't mean that we should just let every TV show do racist jokes. I
just mean that I don't see any problem of showing cultural stereotypes if
they're reasonably accurate. If they show an Irish pub with lots of rowdy
drunks who want to pick fights, well, what's the problem? I still
understand that my supervisor, whose name is O'Riordan, is a fine, fine
gentleman.
I mean, isn't it nonsense that someone with a last name like Tanaka can
tell a funny joke about Japanese tourists with cameras around their necks,
but someone with a last name like Kozlowski can't?
-- Forrest TANAKA
"Rook, Rook! It's Godzirra!"
--
/\_/\ Forrest Tanaka, Cisco Systems, Workgroup Business Unit
/ " \ E-Mail: fta...@cisco.com
\ ^ ^ / US-Mail: 170 West Tasman Drive
~\o/~ San Jose, CA 95134-1706
U FAX: 408 526-6603
Phone: 408 527-3662
Jack Heraty
sra...@op.net (Susan Rankin) wrote:
>In article <57s3a9$f...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk>, u5...@cc.keele.ac.uk says...
>
>>) What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
>>
>>Most Americans are fine people (and they make great comedy shows). What is
>>wrong with you should be the question. Now get back under that rock you
>>crawled out from under.
>
> Let's all consider one important thing here. We, as Americans, have never felt
>the agony and scarring of foreign invasion/war (Pearl Harbor excepted) on our soil. We are
>wrong in thinking that Europeans don't have every right to be as sensitive as they are or
>may be about such a topic as WWII. Jerry Seinfeld showed great lack of judgement in his
>writing by not considering the effects of a show that is syndicated world-wide. What if the
>targetted group had been black, jewish, hispanic, italian, or what-have-you? Just because
>something might actually be considered funny here in America, doesn't mean it would or
>should be funny somewhere else.
>
> Susan
>
1) They're writing for an American audience.
2) As Jerry Seinfeld is Jewish, I think he probably knows a bit a
about the history of the Jewish people in WWII.
3) Most Europeans, I would guess, got the humor from it and weren't
offended. For those who didn't, well you can't please everybody.
--
Jack Heraty
Jack Heraty
"Mr. Clean" <cl...@allmodcons.uk.net> wrote:
>In <32A063...@port.net> Steven Eccles <ecc...@port.net> writes:
>>
>>A few years back I came across a Seinfeld episode were Seinfeld and
>>'Pretzel Bay' got caught in an world Nazi fest in NYC
>>
>>The two got stuck in a limo with the leaders of the world nazi
>>movement who were both Irish from Ireland
>>
>>Funny all my life I taught that the German rounded up the jews gassed
>>them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
>>Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>>
>
>And then some stupid yank wrote:
>
>>I think you're reading *way* too much into it. The episode was
>>meant to say something about ant-Semitism, and do it in a funny way.
>>Nobody was accusing the Irish of causing WW2.
>
>What the hell does that mean? I saw that episode here on Channel 4 in
>England with my girlfreind who's family is from Ireland (I am Jewish of
>Czech background) and we were sick to our stomachs. I sorry mate, but
>that episode went out of its way to paint the Irish as leaders of the
>Nazi world movement. Perhaps the writers of the episode were too in love
>with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
>would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
>Irish.
>
>Let me tell you moron, there was nothing "funny" about what happened in
>Germany 50 years ago. Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
>the least anti-semitic people, fact.
>
>What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
Nothing is wrong with us. Something is wrong with you when you read
something into *nothing* (after all, the show's about nothing). The
characters may have had Irish names, but they were Americans. Now
lighten up and worry about something important.
And for your information, Jerry Seinfeld, Jason Alexander and Julia
Louis-Dreyfus are all Jewish (Michael Richards is not Jewish).
Complain to them.
--
Jack Heraty
Jack Heraty
"Mr. Clean" <cl...@allmodcons.uk.net> wrote:
>Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
>
>Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
>boycott of the programs sponsors.
>
>Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
>Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
>them.
>
>These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
>corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
>
>The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
Funny, I haven't met any of them, and I happen to be one.
>
>I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
>massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
>for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
Well, we all need a hobby.
--
Jack Heraty
Jack Heraty
sra...@op.net (Susan Rankin) wrote:
>In article <32A133...@allmodcons.uk.net>, cl...@allmodcons.uk.net says...
>
>>Let me tell you moron, there was nothing "funny" about what happened in
>>Germany 50 years ago. Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
>>the least anti-semitic people, fact.
>>
>>What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
>
> Simple. Our television writers are idiots. Look at some of the crap that comes out of
>my country (I am of the opinion that I really don't belong here!); Baywatch - more commonly
>known as Buttwatch or Boobwatch, Melrose Place - AKA Melrose PUKE, every other
>Aaron Spelling show in existance...come to think of it, Aaron Spelling is to blame for about
>50% of bad American TV, I mean, he dressed his own daughter in hot pant shorts to put the
>Christmas tree topper on resulting a serious wedgie JUST TO GET RATINGS!
Considering that Baywatch is far more popular in Europe than it is
here, what does that say about European tastes. As for what's on TV,
isn't yours equipped with an on-off switch?
>
> I myself am very picky about what I watch. I like the British shows that we get here (Are
>You Being Served, Monty Python, Mr. Bean, Black Adder, etc.), certain cartoon series, and
>some learning shows (nature, home improvement, history, etc.). There are a few good
>prime time shows, it's not all bad. "Pearl" is good...they alleded to the Scots awhile back
>where the stuffy professor's charismatic brother, who he hates, shows up with their father's
>ashes. They end up reconcilling, dressing in full Scottish attire (great notes taken that
>night!), sang songs, and and toasted their father at midnight. "The Nanny"is pretty funny,
>too. I have to say I never liked Seinfeld. Matter of fact, I've never liked any shows that
>have had so much hype made of them. If a show is truly good, it doesn't need it. Thank the
>heavens for specialized cable channels.
That's nice. Yawn.
--
Jack Heraty
Jack Heraty
Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>Mr. Clean wrote:
>>
>> Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
>> Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
>> boycott of the programs sponsors.
>> Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
>> Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
>> them.
>> These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
>> corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
>> The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
>> I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
>> massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
>> for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
>
>
>Oh my.
>
>Well, as a Canadian, I must say (while we're at it), that if we're to
>protest this sort of thing, we *have to* bombard the writers/producers
>and actors (yes! they who without conscience *uttered* the foul remarks!)
>of Mad About You, which deliberately sets out to belittle the Canadian
>people every few episodes, like fine clockwork! A smack across my cheek
>every time I'm subjected to such a retort!
>
><shaking with righteous anger in Ottawa>
>Scribbler
Yeah, and what about that Seinfeld episode about the Latvian Orthodox
church! Latvians were blocking traffic all over mid-town Manhattan
around NBC headquarters with pickets and human chains, wearing those
neat hats. Mayor Giuliani declared a state of emergency.
And how about when Italians were all up in arms over the portayal of
Poppy, the incontinent Italian restaurant owner. I understand
President Clinton was forced to apolgize on behalf of the American
people to the Italian prime minister to avoid an international
incident.
And when Bapu was deported back to Pakistan due to Jerry's negligence,
how about that debate in the U.N. about it? Talk about bringing us to
the brink of war!
Shameful, just shameful. Is no ethnic group safe anymore?
I think we ought to enlist Jackie Childs's help on this, in case
there's any money in it.
--
Jack Heraty
Russell Davies
: I think we ought to enlist Jackie Childs's help on this, in case
: there's any money in it.
: --
: Jack Heraty
Err totally off the topic, its Jackie Chiles. :)
r.
Ben B
David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol> wrote:
>The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
>to.
Why stop at tv? Why not a newsgroups..
:P I know if I had kids, last thing I would, or anyone else I'm sure of, is too kill them.
Ben B.
Dallas, Texas
email: be...@airmail.net
(*DON"T* add me to any email mailing list)
patrick degnan feeney
> Secondly, although I am in no way saying the Irish are more or
> less anti-semetic than any other nationality, one should note the
> fact that Ireland didn't bother to take a side in the second world
> war, didn't condemn Hitler or the Nazis and remained neutral in
> perhaps the most morally justifiable war in history
Ironically Ireland is the only nation that sent its condolances to
Germany after the death of Hitler.
Scribbler
Jack Heraty wrote:
>
> Yeah, and what about that Seinfeld episode about the Latvian Orthodox
> church! Latvians were blocking traffic all over mid-town Manhattan
> around NBC headquarters with pickets and human chains, wearing those
> neat hats. Mayor Giuliani declared a state of emergency.
>
> And how about when Italians were all up in arms over the portayal of
> Poppy, the incontinent Italian restaurant owner. I understand
> President Clinton was forced to apolgize on behalf of the American
> people to the Italian prime minister to avoid an international
> incident.
>
> And when Bapu was deported back to Pakistan due to Jerry's negligence,
> how about that debate in the U.N. about it? Talk about bringing us to
> the brink of war!
>
> Shameful, just shameful. Is no ethnic group safe anymore?
ROFL--at least someone sees the light <g>
Scrib
Scribbler
Forrest Tanaka wrote:
>
> OK. I'm Japanese-American, and I'm married to a Chinese-American. I
> suppose I could watch an episode of Seinfeld and think that all Chinese
> are callous restauranteurs with little grasp of English and even less
> grasp of manners. Yes, I suppose we could all think that...if we were all
> morons.
Big agreement. I think it might be worthwhile to point out (since this
thread has taken on a life of its own, and at time is taking itself *way*
too seriously, considering the source), that as far as the Chinese Maitre
D' goes, I took it to be a stereotype of Chinese restaurants *in NYC*--of
restaurants in NYC, period. The "ethnic" race which gets the most poking
in Seinfeld is, after all, the New Yorker. The Long Islander--"You gotta
come and see the BAY-by!", the parents from Queens--the Costanzas,
parents from hell. Come on guys. Jerry, Elaine and George are the
biggest jokes in the show. The New Yorker is constantly being jabbed,
whether it's the Jewish one, the Italian, the Yuppie...the show contains
nothing *but* stereotypes...it's what makes it so irreverent. I have to
wonder how satire can go over so many heads, or how righteous
indignation can be so selective...
Scribbler
bo...@infobahnos.com
> Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
>
> Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
> boycott of the programs sponsors.
>
> Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
> Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
> them.
>
> These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
> corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
>
> The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
>
> I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
> massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
> for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
Lighten up man it's just a sitcom, there was nothing offensive in that
episode at all.The writers of the show have always written in jokes that
could have potentially angered certain groups but never stretched it that
far.....example.....the gay episode,,,,that was so well done and did not
offend anyone!!!!!!!!!
Andrew Davison
John Marcus wrote:
>
> of Dublin and it was self-deprecatingly funny when one of the
> neo-Nazis said of Jerry's ridiculous fake accent "that sounds
> more like a Scottish accent" and he said "we lived near the border."
> Now, I think even Seinfeld knows Ireland is an island separated
> from Scotland by a sea, and I think his writers suspected their
> viewers to know to. So, laugh! Laugh at thick Jerry the
> character, not Seinfeld the auteur!
A lot of Scotts-Irish live in or near Northern Ireland, just over/near
the border in fact. It was actually a very astute comment by the
writers.
I have my own theory as to why the irish were picked on but I won't
waste space with it.
Adam Felson
patrick degnan feeney (pfe...@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
:
:
: > Secondly, although I am in no way saying the Irish are more or
duh, maybe that was because the irish are such fans of the english
occupation?
Marcus Clery
"Mr. Clean" <cl...@allmodcons.uk.net> wrote:
>In <32A063...@port.net> Steven Eccles <ecc...@port.net> writes:
>>
>>A few years back I came across a Seinfeld episode were Seinfeld and
>>'Pretzel Bay' got caught in an world Nazi fest in NYC
>>
>>The two got stuck in a limo with the leaders of the world nazi
>>movement who were both Irish from Ireland
>>
>>Funny all my life I taught that the German rounded up the jews gassed
>>them and put them in ovens. And to thinks I was worng, it was the
>>Irish all along Seinfeld put me right.
>>
>
>And then some stupid yank wrote:
>
>>I think you're reading *way* too much into it. The episode was
>>meant to say something about ant-Semitism, and do it in a funny way.
>>Nobody was accusing the Irish of causing WW2.
>
>What the hell does that mean? I saw that episode here on Channel 4 in
>England with my girlfreind who's family is from Ireland (I am Jewish of
>Czech background) and we were sick to our stomachs. I sorry mate, but
>that episode went out of its way to paint the Irish as leaders of the
>Nazi world movement. Perhaps the writers of the episode were too in love
>with their BMW's and Mercs. to blame the Germans, so they thought it
>would be "real cute fellas" to pin the blame for the Holocaust on the
>Irish.
>
>Germany 50 years ago. Of all the races in the world I know the Irish are
>the least anti-semitic people, fact.
>
>What the hell is wrong with you Americans.
DAMN!
I missed this episode.
please,please, please send me a copy as it sounds like a scream.
Especially since there's some sad 'plastic paddy' looking for attention!
PS. Seinfeld is becoming more popular here in the UK
Marcus Clery
Brenda Peterson (STAFF)
Um, we have a sense of humor? GET OVER IT! Jeesh.
Brenda
GODSTAR
>Lighten up man it's just a sitcom, there was nothing offensive in that
>episode at all.The writers of the show have always written in jokes >that
>could have potentially angered certain groups but never stretched it >that
>far.....example.....the gay episode,,,,that was so well done and did >not
>offend anyone!!!!!!!!!
Considering that the writers of nearly all american sitcom's are Jewish
homosexuals somehow this does not surprise me one bit.
Jerry and his young girlfreind smoke and mirrors maybe?
Michael Sims
sra...@op.net (Susan Rankin) wrote:
>I have to say I never liked Seinfeld. Matter of fact, I've never liked any shows that
>have had so much hype made of them. If a show is truly good, it doesn't need it. Thank the
>heavens for specialized cable channels.
Ummmmmmm....the show being "truly good" is what generates the hype.
Duhhhh.
Steven Sullivan
David Harding (sw...@microulz.iol) wrote:
: >As to Seinfeld... Remember the episode where George was chided because
No, just you.
Steven Sullivan
Susan Rankin (sra...@op.net) wrote:
: In article <32A24A...@allmodcons.uk.net>, cl...@allmodcons.uk.net says...
: >
: >> Nonetheless, I consider Seinfeld to be hilarious, and the only US comedy that can even
: compre to British classics like Blackadder.
: >
: >
: >WHAT??????????????
: >
: >The yank will be equating Heuy Lewis and the News to the Sex Pistols
: >next.
: ROFL!
: Susan
Didn't they both do comeback tours this year?
Liz Reen
Joan M. Donahue <jo...@mcs.net> wrote in article
> What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett
O'Hara
> was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
> some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
> She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
> Wasn't her Dad from the North, and that's why the plantation was named
> Tara? I'm really curious as to what tipped you off.
> -joan donahue
> a member of the religious left
>
In the book the Scarlett's mother was the Catholic. It is mentioned in the
begining before the 12 Oaks ball. If memory serves, it occurs just after
Scarlett sees her father jumping the fence. Scarlett and her father join
the rest of the family saying the rosary.
The original writer obiviously does not know the American South. The Irish
did settle there. Savannah, Georgia has the third largest St Patricks day
parade in the US. It has a large lovely Catholic cathedral at which it was
my pleasure to attend Christmas Mass. It is quite possible that some one
from Ireland owned a plantation and slaves.
I suggest that the original author read some American history, this way he
can speak from a position of knowledge.
Liz
Liz Reen
Morgan Robertson <an...@america.net> wrote in article
<32A50E...@america.net>...
> David Harding wrote:
> >
> > The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
> > to.
Really! we know TV is just TV.
>
> The above statement just proves to the internet community that this git
> *himself* watches far too much TV.
>
> Why don't YOU turn the set off and hop on a plane and spend about six
> months traveling around the States. To meet the *real* US citizens -- not
Right On!!!!!!!
> the stereotypical BS that Hollywood stuffs down people's throats
> worldwide.
>
By the same token, I could say that Upstairs,Downstairs accurately reflects
that average Englishman.
Liz
Dooley
> : Ironically Ireland is the only nation that sent its condolances to
> : Germany after the death of Hitler.
> :
>
> duh, maybe that was because the irish are such fans of the english
> occupation?
Wait a second. Is this true? That Ireland sent Germany condolances?!
I never heard that.
In any event, I am Irish as well and did not take much offense to the episode. I must
admit that this thread DID get me thinking ..and for a second I thought I should be
upset, but then it hit me...this is a comedy and is to be taken as so!
I totally agree with jma...@prairienet.org (John Marcus):
when he said:
<<<---quote included.......
All that aside, it was obvious that Seinfeld or his writer was
making fun of Jerry's ignorance on political/geographic matters
or anything that goes on outside his own little world. It was
hilariously absurd that Jerry made his Nazi Irish; it was
wonderfully moronic when he said he came from the green *fields*
of Dublin and it was self-deprecatingly funny when one of the
neo-Nazis said of Jerry's ridiculous fake accent "that sounds
more like a Scottish accent" and he said "we lived near the border."
Now, I think even Seinfeld knows Ireland is an island separated
from Scotland by a sea, and I think his writers suspected their
viewers to know to. So, laugh! Laugh at thick Jerry the
character, not Seinfeld the auteur!
......quote included-->>>
hear hear!
Tom Dooley
doo...@juno.com
Paul Morrison
: >I honestly do not think Seinfeld's decision to use the Irish for that
: >particular show is indicative of anything.
: Really, it tells me that the SEINFELD writers are obsessed with racial
: politics. Like the Third Reich perhaps?
> No, just you.
Hold on, I was watching the Howard Stern TV shown a while back and he
had on two of the Seinfeld writer - lesbians.
One of them had no hair and was dying on cancer and I am sure that she
made a remark to Howard regarding some person. She said:
"Don't tell me he is Irish!"/ while at the same time she said 'Irish'
she made a face like she would puke.
I think there is something to this after all.
thomas conroy
Paul Morrison (me...@cyberport.net) wrote:
: Hold on, I was watching the Howard Stern TV shown a while back and he
: had on two of the Seinfeld writer - lesbians.
: One of them had no hair and was dying on cancer and I am sure that she
: made a remark to Howard regarding some person. She said:
: "Don't tell me he is Irish!"/ while at the same time she said 'Irish'
: she made a face like she would puke.
: I think there is something to this after all.
Hmmmm, you're watching Howard Stern AND you're offended by an alleged
ethnic slur. How does that work?
Matt McDaniel
Why is it that the dumbest threads in this newsgroup stay alive the
longest????
______________________________________________________________
Call 1-301-314-1719 to help take part in the nationwide search
for Joe.
_____________________________________
"Joe who?" |Matt McDaniel
|mat...@wam.umd.edu
"Jo Mama!!!" |University of Maryland, College Park
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Black Hat
It's going to take a whole lot to piss off us sons and daughters
of Erin than anything that Seinfeld can throw at us. We Irish-Americans
are the only ethnic group that not only tolerate silly stereotypes, but
embrace them. Look, I know most of you love to get drunk and rowdy on
St. Patrick's Day, be we still love you. I'd hate for somebody to have
a collard green and Thunderbird party on Martin Luther King's birthday.
The shit would really hit the fan. Besides, while our Indian friends
bitch and moan about pro sports teams like the Washington Redskins , the
Atlanta Braves (especially when they see Jane Fonda do the Tomahawk Chop
with Ted) and the Cleveland Indians, We're all Notre Dame fans not in
spite of their name "Fighting Irish" ( once a lot of Poles coached by a
Norwegan) and a logo of a cartoon leprichaun in a boxing stance, but
BECAUSE of it. i wish you would get with the program before the cops
round up you hooligang into the paddy wagon.
The rest of the country can learn a lot from us Irish.
Jack Heraty
David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol> wrote:
>The average American would murder his childern it some TV show told him
>to.
What would the above average American do?
--
Jack Heraty
Jack Heraty
David Harding <sw...@microulz.iol> wrote:
>>I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
>>didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the >Nazis?"
>
>Not only that they stated they were from Dublin. And to think some prats
>are claiming there is no Irish connection in that episode!!!!!!!!
To think some prats read something into it!!!!!!
--
Jack Heraty
Jeffrey Read
Hmmmmmmmm..... I wonder if that Soup Nazi guy is Irish....
if that's the case, then "NO SOUP FOR YOU....." all of you!
--
--Jeff (kewl non-racist Irish dude)
"Whenever I read more than one word at a time, I get sleepy!" --Joe Higashi
Jonathan Shmuel Weglein
Help-
I need to know how to say "to whom" in as many languages/dialects as
possible. if you can help. please send me a phonetic pronuncaition to my
email address (js...@columbia.edu)
thanks
Chuck---
Sure an begorra, how dare she! But then maybe she is a
faithful to the old sod Irish-American-Looks like a Lesbian, who made a
"puke-like face" because she really was about to heave. Anti-cancer drugs
bring on a response like that. Of course, any nation (N.Ireland) that has
been bombing and shooting innocent civilians for the last 200 years
certainly should not be criticized by the vicious minions of that
wonderfully funny laugh monger, Seinfeld.
Chuck---(Irish and not too proud to be these days)
Rob Worsnop
sell them?
Rob.
Steve Cross
Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>The "ethnic" race which gets the most poking
>in Seinfeld is, after all, the New Yorker. The Long Islander--"You gotta
>come and see the BAY-by!", the parents from Queens--the Costanzas,
>parents from hell. Come on guys. Jerry, Elaine and George are the
>biggest jokes in the show. The New Yorker is constantly being jabbed,
>whether it's the Jewish one, the Italian, the Yuppie...the show contains
>nothing *but* stereotypes...it's what makes it so irreverent.
Yes! There's one other person in this thread who likes Seinfeld for
the same reason I do!
Steve
Michael & Michelle Martinez
"Joan M. Donahue" <jo...@mcs.net> wrote:
>On 3 Dec 1996, Anthony M Annett wrote:
>| Well if you want to dig deeper into this phenomenon, look no further than
>| that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
>| catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
>| its close to zero.
Gerald O'Hara won the plantation in a poker game, after which he tells
his valet (whom he also won) never to play poker against someone
weaned on Irish poteen.
>Tony,
>What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
>was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
>some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
>She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
She talks about religion some, mostly when she's feeling guilty. :)
Her mom was the more devout, but both of her parents were Catholic.
>-joan
Michael R. Gessner
On Sat, 7 Dec 1996, Matt McDaniel wrote:
> Why is it that the dumbest threads in this newsgroup stay alive the
> longest????
>
> ______________________________________________________________
'cuz people keep responding to them...d'oh.
Abby
Make that two!
Yeggster
And three!
"Believing that the British Government has no right in Ireland, never had any
right in Ireland, and
never can have any right in Ireland, the presence in any one generation of
Irishmen, of even a
respectable minority, ready to die to affirm that truth, makes that Government
for ever a usurpation
and a crime against human progress"
James Connolly, Commandant-General, Dublin Division, Army of the Irish
Republic, May 9,
1916.
Sienfeld pokes fun at....all it's what the show is about
if you are Irish take it in stride we can stand a bit
of bashing for comedys sake everyone else on Seinfeld
takes some bashing as well.
And while youare at it check out the SINN FEIN home page
at http://indigo.ie/~saoirse/index.html
Yeggster.
Joan M. Donahue
Thank you, thank you. I continued to amazed and astounded by all the
replies.
|
| >-joan
|
|
|
|
-joan donahue
a member of the religious left
Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or
any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not
tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet
understand them as he ought.
St. Augustine
c-man
Brent Madden wrote:
>
> Mr. Clean wrote:
> >
> > Is it true that Seinfeld trashed Asian-Americans too?
> >
> > Maybe we can join the two ethnic groups together and start a massive
> > boycott of the programs sponsors.
> >
> > Also I would like the names of the writers and the producers of the
> > Seinfeld episodes that attacked the Irish and Asians if anybody knows
> > them.
> >
> > These names will be published on the Internet along with the various
> > corporate sponsors involved in underwriting this ethnic-bashing.
> >
> > The reponse to this issues has been huge among Irish-Americans.
> >
> > I would like to hear from Asian-Americans and see if we can start a
> > massive international boycott to deal with this racist filth once and
> > for all and to spare other ethnic groups the same fate.
>
> Lighten up--it's just a tv show!
T-H-I-S
I-S
A
T-V
S-H-O-W !!!
Not the freaking United Nations or the The Pentagon...U Don't like ?
U don't have to watch..Get It.. ??
L.B. Peep
: >On 3 Dec 1996, Anthony M Annett wrote:
: >| Well if you want to dig deeper into this phenomenon, look no further than
: >| that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
: >| catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
: >| its close to zero.
: Gerald O'Hara won the plantation in a poker game, after which he tells
: his valet (whom he also won) never to play poker against someone
: weaned on Irish poteen.
: >Tony,
: >What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
: >was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
: >some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
: >She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
: She talks about religion some, mostly when she's feeling guilty. :)
: Her mom was the more devout, but both of her parents were Catholic.
: >-joan
To continue a completely off-topic thread, Scarlett's mother converted
to Catholicism when she married Gerald O'Hara. Pissed off her own
Southern WASP family something fierce.
Bo
--
LBP...@netcom.com This .signature intentionally left boring. O-
Phil Humpherys
> >Lighten up man it's just a sitcom, there was nothing offensive in that
> >episode at all.The writers of the show have always written in jokes >that
> >could have potentially angered certain groups but never stretched it >that
> >far.....example.....the gay episode,,,,that was so well done and did >not
> >offend anyone!!!!!!!!!
No kidding! If it bothers you so much, DON'T WATCH THE SHOW!
--
-pH
--------------
Phil Humpherys Email: p...@imall.com
Systems Administrator http://ph.imall.com/
iMALL, Inc. Office: +1.801.377.0899
Pager: +1.801.276.3494
"Meet me Jesus, meet me. Meet me in the middle of the air.
And if my wings should fail me Lord, please meet me with
another pair."
- Bonham, Jones, Page, Plant. "In My Time of Dying", 1975.
THE MOCK FROG
In article <Pine.BSF.3.95.961210...@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>, "Joan M. Donahue" <jo...@mcs.net> writes:
> On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Michael & Michelle Martinez wrote:
>
> | "Joan M. Donahue" <jo...@mcs.net> wrote:
> |
> |
> | >| Well if you want to dig deeper into this phenomenon, look no further than
> | >| that awful film "Gone with the Wind". Now ask yourself: how many Irish
> | >| catholic families owned slaves in Georgia during that period? I'd bet
> | >| its close to zero.
> |
> | Gerald O'Hara won the plantation in a poker game, after which he tells
> | his valet (whom he also won) never to play poker against someone
> | weaned on Irish poteen.
> |
> | >Tony,
> |
> | >What in the movie or the book gave you the impression that Scarlett O'Hara
> | >was Catholic? I know it's been several years since I read it, but I for
> | >some reason don't recall one single mention of Scarlett's religion.
> | >She never went to Mass or confession or said a rosary that I recall.
> |
> | She talks about religion some, mostly when she's feeling guilty. :)
> | Her mom was the more devout, but both of her parents were Catholic.
>
> replies.
> |
> | >-joan
> |
> |
> |
> |
>
> -joan donahue
> a member of the religious left
>
> Whoever, then, thinks that he understands the Holy Scriptures, or
> any part of them, but puts such an interpretation upon them as does not
> tend to build up this twofold love of God and our neighbour, does not yet
> understand them as he ought.
> St. Augustine
>
They sort of reminded me of the Kennedys. The father O'Hara was like Papa Joe
methinx :)
They could have been Protestant, yet I wonder about the significance of the
green dress made from curtains... The mystery (or mysteries ;) get deeper and
deeper Was Margaret Mitchell Catholic?
Matthew in good ole Catholic Australia
Jack Heraty
broom...@aol.com
In article <58h2qj$h...@nw101.infi.net>, Chuck--- <ta...@caller.infi.net>
writes:
>Subject: Re: SEINFELD WRITER MAKES ANTI_IRISH REMARK ON HOWARD
STERN SHOW?
>From: Chuck--- <ta...@caller.infi.net>
>Date: 9 Dec 1996 13:05:23 GMT
>
>con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>>Paul Morrison (me...@cyberport.net) wrote:
>>
>>: Hold on, I was watching the Howard Stern TV shown a while back and he
>>: had on two of the Seinfeld writer - lesbians.
>>
>>: One of them had no hair and was dying on cancer and I am sure that she
>>: made a remark to Howard regarding some person. She said:
>>
>>: "Don't tell me he is Irish!"/ while at the same time she said 'Irish'
>>: she made a face like she would puke.
>>
>>: I think there is something to this after all.
>>
>>Hmmmm, you're watching Howard Stern AND you're offended by an alleged
>>ethnic slur. How does that work?
>>
The bald woman was Marjorie Gross (the subject of the weekly "Who was
Marjorie Gross?" thread). I'm pretty sure the other woman was Carol
Leifer, who I think is Jerry's ex-girlfriend (probably not a lesbian) and
(according to the rumors) the basis of the Elaine character.
defiant
That also happened to be marjorie gross--the woman who had a dedication
made in her memory at the end of one of the latest seinfeld episodes.
the other woman (red head I presume) wasn't a lesbian. That was Carol
Leifer (spelling ?)--another writer for the show and who use to date Jerry
a while back
Andrew Field
give it a break man, it's a comedy TV show!
Daniel A LaGattuta
In article <57vosr$b...@newstand.syr.edu>, pfe...@newstand.syr.edu (Patrick A. Ferrel) writes:
|> I brought up this issue the last time this ep aired in the US, though I
|> didn't use the above subject line; I said "Why Irish names for the Nazis?"
|>
|> the Nazis but no, they chose distinctly, unmistakably Irish names. You
|> don't just pull a name out of the air and get Colin Murphy or John
|> O'Brien. You get names like Susan Ross and Tim Whatley and the names of
|> the people who work for the Yankees - Whitman, Logan, etc. J. Peterman.
|> Mr. Pitt. All generic names. Then you have other names which are
|> probably the names of friends of the writers. I bet Art Vandelay and Bob
|> Saccamano are friends of Larry David or Jerry Seinfeld. And Mr.
|> Bevelacqua is probably the name of one of their gym teachers.
|>
|>
|> Excuuuuse me for being upset that the writers slandered Irish
|> people and Irish Americans. There is absolutely no reason why the
|> Nazis had to have Irish names.
|>
|> At least in the episode that upset Japanese people they had the
|> television executive who saw right through the crap George was trying to
|> sell.
|
They were not Nazis, but some sort of militia type white supremacist
group. And in America, you can find people in these groups with Irish
surnames. So I don't see what the problem is.
If you don't have a sense of humor, why do you bother watching Seinfeld?
Dan
Kevin Mucha
O'Brien and Murphy are both extremely common names. I think it's a
stretch saying the nazi's were meant to slur the Irish. I'm Irish, and
have never been offended by Seinfeld.
Sheridan
>They were not Nazis, but some sort of militia type white supremacist
>group. And in America, you can find people in these groups with Irish
>surnames. So I don't see what the problem is.
>If you don't have a sense of humor, why do you bother watching >Seinfeld?
>Dan
No way Dan, a ex-roommate of ine was the first poster of this and he
showed me a video copy of the program and the two guys were from Ireland
they said that they were from Dublin.
Tom Sheridan
Daniel A LaGattuta
to be from Ireland. But Jerry and George had to pretend to be a Murphy and
an O'Brien to continue to fool the armed supremacists in the limo. So they
rambled on about Ireland. That was part of the humor. You were supposed to
laugh about their lame attempt to act like a Murphy and an O'Brien. I still
think The Limo is one of the best Seinfeld episodes ever.
Dan
Jack Heraty
c941...@maths.newcastle.edu.au (Russell Davies) wrote:
>: I think we ought to enlist Jackie Childs's help on this, in case
>: there's any money in it.
>: --
>: Jack Heraty
>
>Err totally off the topic, its Jackie Chiles. :)
>
>r.
So sue me! :-)
--
Jack Heraty
Anonymous
In article <599rs8$e...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, da...@athena.mit.edu
(Daniel A LaGattuta) wrote:
OH, PUHLEESE GROW UP. I'm Irish and that episode had nothing WHATSOEVER to
offend me. How can people so stupid work a computer?
Graham.
Huckleberry
In article <59kuuu$d...@basement.replay.com>, nob...@REPLAY.COM says...
->OH, PUHLEESE GROW UP. I'm Irish and that episode had nothing WHATSOEVER to
->offend me. How can people so stupid work a computer?
->
->Graham.
One word: Macintosh
Peter Constantine
Huckleberry wrote:
>->How can people so stupid work a computer?
>
>One word: Macintosh
Oh yes... and, for the patriotic, they are assembled in Ireland (well mine
was..)
Constantine
x