When is Darwin not Darwin?
Orcalady80
cure is found. When Dr. Westphalen takes blood from Darwin's fin you notice
that the fin is stitched. In "Higher Power" Darwin is seen wraped in canvas
and is watered down by the crew in one of the escape pods. Would they actually
take a live one out of the water? Did they risk using a live dolphin for the
scene where Bridger and Tim O'Neil swim in the aqua tube?That's a tight fit for
two men and a 6ft. 75 lb. fish! Did they have a full-time dolphin trainer? Has
anyone witnessed a scene where you thought Darwin wasn't Darwin? If anyone
worked on the set or watched the action going on I would like to hear your
imput. Technology is advancing so fast its hard to tell whats real and not
real.
Mimi
Cuvein
young, are warm blooded, and feed their young milk. Now that I have nailed your
"6ft. 75 lb. fish" comment I will continue. Darwin is 6ft in length. Try 10 ft.
which is the average for his species, the bottlenose dolphin. Yes you can take
dolphins out of the water for a short period of time. That is how the moved
Keiko to and from the C-17 that carried him home. They do not suffocate like a
fish would (dolphins have lungs not gills and therefore must rise to the
surface to breath). However, dolphins will overheat when out of the water. They
do not sweat.
Yes they producers of seaQuest did have a full time dolphin trainer
(remember when Bridger said that he had rescued Darwin from a net? Well, it is
the trainer who rescued the dolphin). There was one episode (third season?)
when the aliens that the crew contacted in the first seaon returned. In that
episode, Darwin strange markings on his side (and a fever susposedly). He did
not act like a dolphin at all. He seemed too sedate (dolphins sleep by shutting
down one side of the brain at a time. They must keep one side awake so that
they will remember to breath. Breathing is a conscious act for dolphins).
Doug (Cuv...@aol.com)
"You have always been here." -Koch, Vorlon ambassador to Babylon 5
Amelia Keith
Cuvein wrote:
First off, dolphins are not fish!! They are mammals. They give birht to live
young, are warm blooded, and feed their young milk. Now that I have nailed your
"6ft. 75 lb. fish" comment I will continue. Darwin is 6ft in length. Try 10 ft which is the average for his species, the bottlenose dolphin.When the dolphin is in the aquatube with Bridger and O'Neal and I said "That's a tight fit for two men and a 6ft. 75lb. fish!". The comment was made all in good fun. My question to you is do you think they used a real dolphin in that scene. I was guessing at the size and weight of the dolphin in the aquatube". Does size really matter?
The NSA Family encyclopedia defines a dolphin as a toothed whale and an aquatic mammal closely related to purpoises and whales. There are 32 species of dolphins. There is a species of dolphin called a Dolphinfish or Dorado. Its an ocean game fish that reaches 6 ft. in length. Its a fast swimmer and can leap out of the water to catch its prey. The smallest is less than 4ft. long and the largest or bottle-nosed dolphin can reach 12 ft. long. The killer whale is considered a dolphin despite its great length and can reach 30ft. long.
Yes you can take dolphins out of the water for a short period of time.
Yes, to have any dolphin moved whether on a set or C-17 is risky.
Yes they producers of seaQuest did have a full time dolphin trainer
Yes, at the end of the show the credits say that dolphin supervision was provided by Walt Conti and Associates.
Well, it is the trainer who rescued the dolphin).
Who do you mean, Walt Conti or Bridger?
There was one episode(third season) when the aliens that the crew contacted in the first seon returned. In that episode, Darwin strange markings on his side (and a fever susposedly).
The scene your referring to is in the "Fear That Follows" in Season 2.
He did not act like a dolphin at all. He seemed too sedate (dolphins sleep by shutting down one side of the brain at a time. They must keep one side awake so that they will remember to breath. Breathing is a conscious act for dolphins).
I'm talking more about a mechanized dolphin (e.x.-Jaws-a mechanical shark) vs. a live one. Am I correct in that you're saying the dolphin was mechanized or are you saying the dolphin was asleep when they started filming the scene? Please elaborate on sleeping dolphins. What's your source? Enlighten me.
Mimi
Cuvein
>"That's a
>tight fit for two men and a 6ft. 75lb. fish!". The comment was made all in
>good
>fun. My question to you is do you think they used a real dolphin in that
>scene. I
>was guessing at the size and weight of the dolphin in the aquatube". Does
>size
>really matter?
>
I apologize. Yes, I think they did use a real dolphin (I think their dolphin's
name really was Darwin). I'd guess the aqua-tube was about four feet wide
(about the same size as the Enterprise's Jeffries tubes on Star Trek, but with
a much higher cieling (cieling was about six feet high)). Darwin was about
average size for a male bottlenose dolphin (10 feet in length and 450 to
600lbs.). That's a lot of dolphin. Remember that Darwin was too sick to move
under his own power. Now I coulds always tell the computer dolphin from the
real one, but that was only in scenes like the time they fought the giant croc
(I never knew that seaQuest episodes had titles).
>Yes, to have any dolphin moved whether on a set or C-17 is risky.
Testament to the power of the C-17. Even though Keiko was not really heavy
enough to really give the airplane trouble, he WAS heavy enough that if
something happened, the pilots would have had a terrible time trying to control
the plane.
>Who do you mean, Walt Conti or Bridger?
I think it was in the pilot episode that Bridger was explaining his
relationship with Darwin (to Lucas?). He said he rescued Darwin from a fishing
net.
>Am I correct in that you're saying the dolphin was mechanized or are you
>saying the dolphin was asleep when they started filming the scene?
Like us, dolphins need to rest every so often, but dolphins take cat naps. They
shut down half of their brain at a time because dolphins must remember to
breath. They might have used a mechanical dolphin for that and many scenes that
would have put Darwin in danger. It is getting harder, as technology advances,
to be able to tell the real animals from mechanical animals in movies and
shows. Most of the scenes in "Free Willy" that involved them moving the whale
were done by a mechanical whale, not to mention that the mechanical whale was
used exclusively in all the other "Free Willy" films.
>Please elaborate
>on sleeping dolphins. What's your source? Enlighten me.
Chris Catton's Dolphins. Copyright 1995, St. Martin's Press. NY.
John Lilly's Man and Dolphin. I don't remember the publisher or the year.
There were other books whose names I have forgotten. Plus I was a member of the
alt.animals.dolphins newsgroup. I wouldn't go there now, though, because that
group has been invaded by cross-posters and people whose only purpose in life
(if they have one) is to start flamewars. There are still many who use that
group to talk about dolphins, though. Several of the group members are dolphin
trainers or are pursueing careers in marine biology, others are amatures who,
like me, just love dolphins.
Mark B.
I can't say for sure about season 1, but in season 2 and 3 a real
dolphin was NEVER used on the show. The only exception to this is
footage of seaworld shown at the end of some eps in those info segments
with the cast and one shot in Fear That Follows (I think this is the
name) of Dolpins through glass also taken at seaworld.
The dolphin tubes, by the way, were open on the top. Actually, there wa
only 1 'tube'- the one you see in the hallway was the same one (other
side) seen from Lucas' and Bridgers' quarters.
Mark
Mark
--
Visit "Build Your Own Boba Fett Costume" at
http://www.geocities.com/~byobf/
Cuvein
>
>I can't say for sure about season 1, but in season 2 and 3 a real
>dolphin was NEVER used on the show. The only exception to this is
>footage of seaworld shown at the end of some eps in those info segments
>with the cast and one shot in Fear That Follows (I think this is the
>name) of Dolpins through glass also taken at seaworld.
>
>The dolphin tubes, by the way, were open on the top. Actually, there wa
>only 1 'tube'- the one you see in the hallway was the same one (other
>side) seen from Lucas' and Bridgers' quarters.
>
>Mark
Darwin was there for most of season 1. When exactly did they replace Darwin?
Richard Black
>
>Darwin was there for most of season 1. When exactly did they replace
Darwin?
>
>Doug (Cuv...@aol.com)
Actually, from what I've heard, Darwin was always a mechanical dolphin. No,
I have no references or names to throw out for proof but I've been around SQ
fandom since the beginning and that is what I've heard. Take it for what
it's worth....
Karel
Orcalady80
>I have no references or names to throw out for proof but I've been around SQ
>fandom since the beginning and that is what I've heard. Take it for what
>it's worth....
If you look at the credits after the show, it says dolphin supervision was
given by Walt Conti and Associates in the first season and Edge Innovations in
the second and third season. There was a dolphin named Darwin. Jonathan
Brandis appeared on a sci-fact segment after one of the episodes. He is seen
bending down by a dolphin and says "This is Darwin." They probably used Darwin
off and on because he might have had to perform at SeaWorld.
Has anyone seen "Darwin, the dolphin" at SeaWorld in L.A. or Florida?
Mimi
Cuvein
>
He is definitely not at Sea World of San Antonio. Last time I was there was in
1993. They had fourteen dolphins crowded into a pool that was barely large
enough for two, and would be consider small for humans. I heard that he was one
of the dolphins that did the Flipper movie. i think I recognized him in that
movie.
Richard Black
Cuvein wrote in message <199809131905...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>Has anyone seen "Darwin, the dolphin" at SeaWorld in L.A. or Florida?
>>
>
>He is definitely not at Sea World of San Antonio. Last time I was there was
in
>1993. They had fourteen dolphins crowded into a pool that was barely large
>enough for two, and would be consider small for humans. I heard that he was
one
>of the dolphins that did the Flipper movie. i think I recognized him in
that
>movie.
There is no Darwin the dolphin. He was a mechanical dolphin. I have heard
this from two reliable sources. They have talked with SQ tech people, and
others who worked on the show as extras. There was a full sized one named
Binky and a dolphin head only for head shots. Stock footage was used in
Devil's window. Darwin outside the boat was CGI. The show tried to keep it a
secret ; tour guides at Universal were not allowed to tell anyone, so they
told everyone that Darwin lived at Seaworld.
Karel
Orcalady80
>this from two reliable sources. They have talked with SQ tech people, and
>others who worked on the show as extras. There was a full sized one named
>Binky and a dolphin head only for head shots. Stock footage was used in
>Devil's window. Darwin outside the boat was CGI. The show tried to keep it a
>secret ; tour guides at Universal were not allowed to tell anyone, so they
>told everyone that Darwin lived at Seaworld.
>
>Karel
said that dolphin supervision was provided by Walt Conti and Associates and
Edge Innovations. These trainers wouldn't supervise an animatronic dolphin.
They work with the living. Jonathan Brandis did introduce a dolphin as
"Darwin" at the end of one of the episodes and he was swimming around in the
tank. I know that the film crew used a mechanized dolphin and computer imaging
for some shots. If you ever get hold of your source again please ask about
the dolphin supervision from Walt Conti and Edge Innovations. I'd love to hear
from you.
Mimi
>
>
>
>
>
Matt Miller
the scenes in the swim tubes where it would have been tougher to do it with a real
dolphin, but a real dolphin for other shots.
-Matt
Orcalady80 wrote:
--
------------------------------------
"First rule of government spending:
why have one when you can have two
for twice the price."
-S.R. Hadden
-Contact
------------------------------------
Richard Black
Orcalady80 wrote in message
<199809152135...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>That's really interesting, but why would the credits lie to the public? It
>said that dolphin supervision was provided by Walt Conti and Associates and
>Edge Innovations. These trainers wouldn't supervise an animatronic dolphin.
>They work with the living.
They weren't trainers. Why would trainers be called Edge Innovations ? They
were some sort of special effects/technical specialists. I'm sure there's
plenty of call out there for mechanical animals. People just assumed they
were dolphin trainers but wouldn't they have more of a trainer type name ?
Jonathan Brandis did introduce a dolphin as
>"Darwin" at the end of one of the episodes and he was swimming around in
the
>tank.
Mmmm, I don't remember that one. Have to look for it. I do remember one
where he's using the camera and hits the side of the pool calling Darwin and
whistling. I do know that the whole dolphin secret was kept hush hush.
Karel
Orcalady80
>
>Orcalady80 wrote in message
><199809152135...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>>>That's really interesting, but why would the credits lie to the public? It
>>said that dolphin supervision was provided by Walt Conti and Associates and
>>Edge Innovations. These trainers wouldn't supervise an animatronic dolphin.
>>They work with the living.
>
>They weren't trainers. Why would trainers be called Edge Innovations ? They
>were some sort of special effects/technical specialists. I'm sure there's
>plenty of call out there for mechanical animals. People just assumed they
>were dolphin trainers but wouldn't they have more of a trainer type name
If that's the case they sure have a lot of people fooled, me included. Edge
Innovations is a strange name for a dolphin supervision outfit.
The movie industry has come a long way with technical wizardry (ex: Deep
Rising, Titanic), but it would be a sad day for all Questies if Darwin turned
out to be a special effect. Some of us were hoping for another Flipper.
> I do know that the whole dolphin secret was kept hush hush.
Why would they want to keep it so hush hush?
Real dolphin or not I have watched the show from its beginning and have
enjoyed every minute of it.
Mimi
Mark B.
real dolphin was NEVER used on the show with the excepion of the
(very) occasional stock footage of dolphins swimming in a group.
In the development of the first season, the set was being designed to
allow for a real dolphin, but this was scrapped for many reasons- not
the least of which was the concern for the animal's safety. Another big
reason was the time that using a real dolphin would consume.
Edge innovations is an independant company that does mechanical animals
for motion pictures. I'm not sure what other animals they do, but I
know they do a lot of dolphin work such as Free Willy, Flipper, etc.
They had their own operators as permanent members of the crew. These
guys did Darwin's 'acting'.
You have to realize that a real dolphin looks almost like its made of
rubber anyway, so an ultra-realistic mechanical duplicate is not all
that amazing. Having seen the darwin 'puppets' up close, they look
absolutely real, even upon very close inspection.
The secret of Darwin being fake was a hold over from the first season
when Universal/Amblin really cared about the show enough to defend the
mystique of the Darwin character.
hens...@novell.uidaho.edu
"Richard Black" <rbl...@jersey.net> wrote:
> Cuvein wrote in message <199809131905...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> >>Has anyone seen "Darwin, the dolphin" at SeaWorld in L.A. or Florida?
> >He is definitely not at Sea World of San Antonio. Last time I was there was
> in
> >1993. They had fourteen dolphins crowded into a pool that was barely large
> >enough for two, and would be consider small for humans. I heard that he was
> one
> >of the dolphins that did the Flipper movie. i think I recognized him in
> that
> >movie.
Flipper resides at Miami Seaquarium (in, you guessed it, Miami!). He has his
own show there. I have pictures :-)
I don't recall them saying if he did the Flipper movie or if it was another
dolphin. But the TV show was filmed at Miami Seaquarium with Flipper.
--Kristy</delurk>
"Does your mother know where you are today? Thank you for riding MagLev."
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Cuvein
>There is no Darwin the dolphin. He was a mechanical dolphin. I have heard
>this from two reliable sources. They have talked with SQ tech people, and
>others who worked on the show as extras. There was a full sized one named
>Binky and a dolphin head only for head shots. Stock footage was used in
>Devil's window. Darwin outside the boat was CGI. The show tried to keep it a
>secret ; tour guides at Universal were not allowed to tell anyone, so they
>told everyone that Darwin lived at Seaworld.
>
That explains why Darwin never had a big part. Anyone interested in what a
story with him as the main character would be like should read The Ancient.
Cuvein
>Flipper resides at Miami Seaquarium (in, you guessed it, Miami!). He has his
>own show there. I have pictures :-)
Can you upload them?
>I don't recall them saying if he did the Flipper movie or if it was another
>dolphin. But the TV show was filmed at Miami Seaquarium with Flipper.
I just thought that Flipper looked a lot like Darwin. I thought there were
several dolphins that did the movie "Flipper." The show was supposed to be in
the Bahamas.
hens...@novell.uidaho.edu
cuv...@aol.com (Cuvein) wrote:
> >Flipper resides at Miami Seaquarium (in, you guessed it, Miami!). He has his
> >own show there. I have pictures :-)
> Can you upload them?
I'll see what I can do....the scanner I have access to is very finicky. But
if I get them up on my page I'll let y'all know.
> >I don't recall them saying if he did the Flipper movie or if it was another
> >dolphin. But the TV show was filmed at Miami Seaquarium with Flipper.
> I just thought that Flipper looked a lot like Darwin.
If you don't know what to look for, all dolphins look alike. At least, that's
what _I_ think. Because I don't know what to look for, so they all look the
same. ::shrug::
> I thought there were
> several dolphins that did the movie "Flipper."
That's a possiblity...probably more work/expense though.
> The show was supposed to be in the Bahamas.
From what I heard during my visit to the Seaquarium, they filmed it right
there on Key Biscayne. But, it looks like the Bahamas to me!
--Kristy
Cuvein
>If you don't know what to look for, all dolphins look alike. At least,
>that's
>what _I_ think. Because I don't know what to look for, so they all look the
>same. ::shrug::
Like humans, dolphins have features that set them apart from other dolphins.
Darwin, for instance, had two dark grey stripes that ran down his melon,
splitting when they reached his snout. Not all dolphins have these stripes, but
Flipper had them. I never could get a really good look at Darwin's dorsal fin.
The nicks on a dolphin's dorsal fin will also distinguish them. Basically, you
are right in that you have to know what to look for.
>That's a possiblity...probably more work/expense though.
Actually, they have a website devoted to Flipper, and they mention more than
one dolphin.
>From what I heard during my visit to the Seaquarium, they filmed it right
>there on Key Biscayne. But, it looks like the Bahamas to me!
>
>
The movie took place in the Bahamas. That I know.
Kenn...@my-dejanews.com
cuv...@aol.com (Cuvein) wrote:
>
> That explains why Darwin never had a big part. Anyone interested in what a
> story with him as the main character would be like should read The Ancient.
>
I know someone already answered this, that Darwin was not a real dolphin but
a creation from Edge Innovations. I thought people might like to check out
this website:
http://www.edgefx.com/seaquest.htm
They have 4-8 'Darwin' video's on the site, as well as, clips from 'Flipper'
and 'Free Willy'.
*Kennebec*
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own