Burt Reynolds
Craig Gordon
pardon me for starting a new one on this off-subject subject.
First, let me say that James Garner has indeed benefited from a high
likeability factor, as did Mr. Reynolds. But, he can act some, but let's
face it, he ain't Lawrence Olivier. There is a reason his few forays into
darker characters (Think Mr. Buddwing) did not fair well. It played against
type for him-- i.e., he was not likeable and could not pull it off well.
Indeed, with the exception of the Great Escape, I am hard pressed to think
of a time when Jim played a character who wasn't a charming, affable fellow
and the movie or TV series was a hit (having watched First Monday a few
times now (and being VERY disappointed in the scripts), I really was
wondering why they had him playing a rather cantankerous fellow-- We don't
like to see him cantankerous. We like him affable and charming. Anyone
remember "Man of the People"? Believe that lasted half a season, and, altho
I actually liked the show, was not surprised it was cancelled cuz Jimbo was
cast as a CANTANKEROUS sorta fellow.
Doesn't mean Jim cannot act--- like MANY actors, he is best playing a
certain kind of part. There are very few actors who can do a wide range and
pull it off.
So, to Burt Reyonolds. The reason he never seemed to be acting was that he
was almost always cast AS BURT REYNOLDS, AFFABLE GOOD OLE BOY. During the
seventies and eighties, he generated more box office than anyone but
Harrison Ford (and I would argue strongly that Ford had better material and
better directors) by sticking with what worked for him.
But, if asked to, HE COULD ACT. For an example, see Sharkey's Machine. Yes,
an action movie, but one with some complexity that required Reynolds to not
just "Phone it in." OR, more recently, "Boogie Nights", a movie where there
were a number of "respected" actors (and yes, I know, Mark Wahlberg sucked
eggs). Reynolds was the BEST thing in that movie, and he was going up
against Don Cheadle, Julianne Moore and a number of other fine "chacacter"
actors who survive primarily because, well, THEY CAN ACT.
RNeill22
>an action movie, but one with some complexity that required Reynolds to not
>just "Phone it in." OR, more recently, "Boogie Nights",
I have to agree that Burt Reynolds can be an excellent actor. In addition to
the movies you cited, his lead performance in "Breaking In" was especially
effective.
Reynolds also directed "Sharky's Machine," which must've added an extra degree
of challenge to the complexity of his central role.
Rick Fane
character, here's another: "A Man Called Sledge". He plays a pretty
ruthless leader of a gang of outlaws.
I kind of wonder what his portrayal of Wyatt Earp was like in "Hour of
the Gun". I'll have to see if I can find that one to rent.
Ben Bishop
these guys are WAY past there primes. All you have to
do is to witness the trash on contemporary TV to gauge
how comparatively good they were (are).
However, if anyone is interested, I just placed an
order for one of Jim's best performances in "Marlowe",
now in-stock at Videoflicks out of Canada. I've been
waiting a long time for this one, and I'm certain
supplies won't last.
They carry the whole Rockford Files line-up, and they
even had "Charley Varrick" in stock for $17.99 -- a
highly sought-after cult film starring Walter Matthau
and Andy Robinson (of Dirty Harry fame) that was
demanding bids as high as $85 for USED copies on eBay
just a few months ago. That goes for "Hopscotch" too,
which starred Matthau, Glenda Jackson, and Sam
Waterston (Law & Order), but that one is out of print.
Just an FYI folks!
Scripts360
created and wrote the show, did not have a clue as to Jim's personality or how
to write for him at all. His character "Jim Doyle" was not cantankerous, he
was outright mean. I wrote Mr. Israel at the time about changing the character
to make him more likeable and charming, as Doyle was suppose to be a con man
anyway....I did not receive a reply, but one of the last episodes reflected
changes and was more along the lines of Maverick/Rockford/ Jimmy Jo Meeker.
But alas, it was too late and the show had a merciful demise. I have a copy of
Charley Varrick which I consider one of the best movies ever. Siegel's
direction, the story, the plotting, the acting from Walter on down was top
notch. Everyone should pick up a copy of "Varrick". Joe Don Baker is one of
the best villians in movie history in that one.
Rob
Tom Mailloux
"Craig Gordon" <craig....@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:kETg8.14681$e07.2924@sccrnsc01...
> Indeed, with the exception of the Great Escape, I am hard pressed to think
> of a time when Jim played a character who wasn't a charming, affable
fellow
I have to disagree with that assessment. I thought the whole point of his
being a scrounger *was* that he could be charming and affable. He certainly
conned Werner (the guard), didn't he?
By the way, I just bought The Great Escape on DVD for $12.99 at Borders
Books, if anyone is interested.
Tom
Craig Gordon
"Tom Mailloux" <t_mai...@email.com> wrote in message
news:pC6h8.267121$Aw2.21...@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
his relationship with the Donald Pleasance character was the warmest one in
the movie. But, my point was, in that movie, he was more of a "regular" guy
than an affable jokester/con man/comedic type character and the movie was
actually successful. And it was one of the very few where he was featured
prominently where he wasn't playing for laffs and it still did well at the
box office.
It may have been a bad example as there were so many characters that no one
really dominated the film. But, any movie he did that was successful (or TV
series, for that matter) had him playing someone who was extremely likeable,
as that is his natural persona, and it is foolish to cast him against type.
Again, if you remember Man of the People, or watch First Monday now (not
that I would recommend it), you are seeing a side of Jim we don't really
warm up to, and that always seems to result in failure.
Altho it was little more than an extended cameo, his part in Space Cowboys
was much more suited to who he is (not a great movie, but fun and, IMHO,
exceedingly well cast). The writers there obviously knew who the cast was
gonna be and tailored the parts to the talent, and that usually results in a
more successful picture for the audience, and therefore, at the box office.
That was also kinda my point about Burt Reynolds.
Rick Fane
Casting against type can be very effective. The best example I can think
of is "Once Upon a Time in the West". The beginning is very memorable
with scenes of a large and prosperous frontier family making
preparations to welcome the father's new bride. The whole family is
gunned down by a gang of unseen assailants except for the youngest boy.
When he's discovered the assassins debate whether to let him live or
not. But when one of the men slips and calls the leader by name, he guns
the boy down. Then the camera pans from the smoking gun to the face of
the leader and for the first time we see that it's Henry Fonda! This
added another element to the shock and it certainly established his
character as a really bad guy.
Craig Gordon
"Rick Fane" <fane.e....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3C850856...@verizon.net...
Funny you should mention that, cuz that is the ONLY thing i remember about
that movie.
But, as I recall, that movie was not a huge financial success (a great
critical success, of course), and the fact that it was a three-hour western
coming towards the end of the western cycle may have something to do with
that.
But, the natural extension of your premise is that casting against type can
actually be a boon at the box office or in the ratings, and I would
strenuously disagree with that. For every one example you can give me i
will return one hundred where it didn't work. That's why Sly Stallone is
making another Rocky movie, and, altho I can't imagine it will be any good,
I bet it does boffo business.
RNeill22
>Date: 3/5/02 11:37 AM Eastern Standard Ti
>
>I agree that "Man of the People" was a huge disappointment. Neil Israel who
>created and wrote the show, did not have a clue as to Jim's personality or
>how
>to write for him at all. His character "Jim Doyle" was not cantankerous, he
>was outright mean. I wrote Mr. Israel at the time about changing the
>character
>to make him more likeable and charming, as Doyle was suppose to be a con man
>anyway....I did not receive a reply, but one of the last episodes reflected
>changes and was more along the lines of Maverick/Rockford/ Jimmy Jo Meeker.
>But alas, it was too late and the show had a merciful demise.
I thought this might be a good time to review James Garner's comments in the
March 20th 1993 TV Guide interview in which he discussed the cancellation of
"Man of the People."
=========================================================
TV Guide: ....you've had unusually good luck with series--except for the most
recent one, Man of the People. What happened?
JG: The two producers didn't understand it or me, and what I do best. And
their humor is toilet humor, which I can't stand. I told NBC fairly early that
these people didn't get it, and I'd like to replace both of them. Brandon
Tartikoff was at NBC at the time, and he said, "Don't worry, you carry the ball
and I'll do the blocking for you." The next day, off he goes to run a movie
studio. I sent him a note that said,"Thanks for the blocking. Tackled in the
end zone."
...I produced Rockford, too, but I had such good people with me, I saw I could
back off. This last series, I gave up control and paid the price.
Russell G. Naylor
In case you want to find it, here it is:
Russ
Scripts360
Rob
Craig Gordon
"Russell G. Naylor" <rgna...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bf444ff1.02030...@posting.google.com...
Russ, as always, you are so helpful. Thx
29Cov...@bigfoot.com
Ever seen a movie called The Glitter Dome 1984 Directed by of all
people Stuart Margolin(A.K.A.)Angel Martin,also starring John
Lithgow,this is NOT one of James Garner's best movies,he plays a cop in
Hollyweird investigating an XXX rated movie producers murder...I wonder
if did this movie as a favor to Angel?
Craig Gordon
Craig Gordon
Saw it, hated it, thought Garner was miscast, but John Lithgow always makes
a great villain, 3rd Rock being an embarrassment IMHO (even for that show,
he was way too over the top). Highly recommended viewing: Ricochet with
Lithgow (as a GREAT villain) and Denzel Washington, a truly scary movie that
deserved to do better at the box office than it did, but probably stiffed
due to the fact that even the hero (Washington) had a dark past that made it
hard to fully like him.
Damn, American audiences gotta have their black and white. Put some grey
into the picture and the audience just won't see it. Probably why there
aren't better movies out there-- writers write them, but they either get
changed or not produced!
Righter
Adam H. Kerman
>I have a copy of Charley Varrick which I consider one of the best movies
>ever. Siegel's direction, the story, the plotting, the acting from Walter
>on down was top notch. Everyone should pick up a copy of "Varrick".
>Joe Don Baker is one of the best villians in movie history in that one.
I hope you'll agree that that wasn't a cult film, good grief.
I loved the sequence during the opening credits: Lalo Schiffren's soothing
theme music, the beautiful spring day, the children playing, this nice
old man with a broken foot being driven to the bank by his dutiful daughter...
erupting into a well-orchestrated bank robbery, sudden violence, and an
exciting police chase... No one could direct action flicks like Don Siegel.
[Mandatory Rockford content: Who was a better driver, Nadine or Jim?]
Did anyone read the John Reese novel? Varrick's character was beefed up for
the movie. He became MORE sympathetic (re Nadine) and MORE malevolent (witness
Harlan's fate). The charicature of Baker's character was toned down, too.
Joe Don Baker was wonderful, I agree. Wish he'd get better parts these days.
I've seen this movie countless times on tv. Censored, of course. As you're a
fan, can you PLEASE tell me the lyrics of the rude song Molly (Baker) is
singing as he walks up the path of the brothel?
Scripts360
belly and down her back, every crevice and every crack, I painted her I
painted, painted her through and through!
Rob
My apologies for the lyrics to other people on the group.
dw
"Scripts360" <scrip...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020311085001...@mb-cl.aol.com...
No need to apologize, you didn't write it you only recited it.
Gary Moheban
>
> "Scripts360" <scrip...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I know the song, you're talking about, "I painted her, I painted, her,
up her belly and down her back, every crevice and every crack, I painted her
I painted, painted her through and through!> >
> >
> > My apologies for the lyrics to other people on the group.
>
> No need to apologize, you didn't write it you only recited it.
Yeah, and besides I'm sure the lyrics refer to the building and not a woman.
;)
The Avocado Avenger
[Charlie Varrick Spoilers!!]
>[Mandatory Rockford content: Who was a better driver, Nadine or Jim?]
Er. The one that didn't die?
>I've seen this movie countless times on tv. Censored, of course. As you're a
>fan, can you PLEASE tell me the lyrics of the rude song Molly (Baker) is
>singing as he walks up the path of the brothel?
I see it on Cinemax every once in a while, although lately it's been on
AMC, which edits into oblivion.
Stacia * The Avocado Avenger * Life is a tale told by an idiot;
http://world.std.com/~stacia/ * Full of sound and fury,
There is no guacamole anywhere. * Signifying nothing.
Scripts360
Rob
Gary Moheban
> Gary, Gary, Gary........why don't you go wait in the cruiser?>
I'm not afraid of you, mister! ;)
dw
"Gary Moheban" <gmoh...@mn.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3Qej8.65197$991.15...@typhoon.kc.rr.com...
> "Scripts360" <scrip...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Gary, Gary, Gary........why don't you go wait in the cruiser?>
>
> I'm not afraid of you, mister! ;)
>
>
>
>
Scripts360
and get a little brown doggie.
Rob
Adam H. Kerman
>>[Mandatory Rockford content: Who was a better driver, Nadine or Jim?]
>Er. The one that didn't die?
It wouldn't be a fair contest if the cop still managed to shoot Nadine...
Gary Moheban
[about "Charley Varrick"]
Rob, Adam:
I never heard of "Charley Varrick" before but you guys have gotten me
interested in it now. I went to IMDB and it got a user rating of about 8
out of 10 stars, although not many people reviewed it. So I'm going to see
if I can find it on video.
Speaking of little known Matthau gems, did anyone see the movie "I'm Not
Rappaport"? It co-stars Ossie Davis and is based on the Broadway play of
the same name. I caught it on HBO or Cinemax a couple years ago knowing
nothing about it beforehand, and I just loved it!
Great chemistry between Matthau and Davis, great dialogue, funny, and almost
all of it was filmed in New York's Central Park...meaning great scenery,
believe it or not. A different kind of movie than "Charley Varrick", but I
would strongly recommend it as another little known, Matthau gem.
Adam H. Kerman
>[about "Charley Varrick"]
>Rob, Adam:
>I never heard of "Charley Varrick" before but you guys have gotten me
>interested in it now. I went to IMDB and it got a user rating of about 8
>out of 10 stars, although not many people reviewed it. So I'm going to see
>if I can find it on video.
Find any movie directed by Don Siegel, and rent it. He directed a lot more
than just "Dirty Harry". Did the guy ever have a budget of more than a
few hundred thou (plus perhaps star salaries later?) The camera work is
always astounding.
Mandatory Rockford content: Siegel's most famous films feature the most
minimal amount of dialogue, in complete contrast to the witty dialogue found
in "Rockford" scripts!
>Speaking of little known Matthau gems, did anyone see the movie "I'm Not
>Rappaport"? It co-stars Ossie Davis and is based on the Broadway play of
>the same name. I caught it on HBO or Cinemax a couple years ago knowing
>nothing about it beforehand, and I just loved it!
>Great chemistry between Matthau and Davis, great dialogue, funny, and almost
>all of it was filmed in New York's Central Park...meaning great scenery,
>believe it or not. A different kind of movie than "Charley Varrick", but I
>would strongly recommend it as another little known, Matthau gem.
Hah!
I never saw the movie. I did see it on stage, however.
Another fun action/romance/comedy Matthau was in was "Charade", a very late
Cary Grant movie, with Audrey Hepburn.
Gary Moheban
> Gary Moheban <gmoh...@mn.rr.com> wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote:
>
> >[about "Charley Varrick"]
>
> >Speaking of little known Matthau gems, did anyone see the movie "I'm Not
Rappaport"? It co-stars Ossie Davis and is based on the Broadway play of
the same name. I caught it on HBO or Cinemax a couple years ago knowing
nothing about it beforehand, and I just loved it!
>
> >Great chemistry between Matthau and Davis, great dialogue, funny, and
almost all of it was filmed in New York's Central Park...meaning great
scenery, believe it or not. A different kind of movie than "Charley
Varrick", but I would strongly recommend it as another little known, Matthau
gem.
>
> Hah!
>
> I never saw the movie. I did see it on stage, however.
>
Adam, I'm never quite sure what you mean when you say "Hah!". Please
explain and let me know how that would be an appropriate response to what I
posted.
> Another fun action/romance/comedy Matthau was in was "Charade", a very
late Cary Grant movie, with Audrey Hepburn.>
I know someone who raves about that movie constantly. I still haven't seen
it in its entirety. Missed my chance when TCM showed it (unedited) several
times a couple months ago.
Adam H. Kerman
><29Cov...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> Ever seen a movie called The Glitter Dome 1984 Directed by of all people
>>Stuart Margolin(A.K.A.)Angel Martin,also starring John Lithgow,this
>>is NOT one of James Garner's best movies,he plays a cop in Hollyweird
>>investigating an XXX rated movie producers murder...I wonder if did this
>>movie as a favor to Angel?
>Saw it, hated it, thought Garner was miscast,
I don't agree. The movie sucked because the script sucked, limited in
part to being adapted for tv though that's not an excuse. The pacing was
plodding, which is the director's fault. The source material was a Joseph
Wambaugh novel, one of several the author wrote to spite Hollywood for
perceived slights.
Garner played a typical Waumbaugh character. It's not material he couldn't
handle; he can convey the required cynicism.
The Wambaugh adaptation that was truly horrific was "The Choir Boys", not a
great novel, but one that could have been fixed up for tv.
For Wambaugh adaptations that don't suck, see especially "The Onion Field"
with a top performance by James Woods. I like "The Blue Marble" though most
people don't. I'm especially fond of "The Blue Knight", both tv versions of
it. Both William Holden and George Kennedy are terrific as Bumper Morgan,
although Kennedy's tv series is a lesser effort. "The New Centurians"
is pretty good, too, starring George C. Scott.
Wambaugh's name is on the wonderful anthology series "Police Story", but he
had nothing to do with running the show.
Several folks in this newsgroup have expressed the opinion that Garner can't
play characters that don't resemble Maverick. While that character best takes
advantage of Garner's natural likeability and allows him to appeal romantically
to a female audience while still coming across as a man's man to the male
audience, the problem with the many non-Maverick characters he's played in his
career was that the scripts just weren't all that wonderful and the characters
just not as interesting. Wasn't Garner's fault.
Not claiming the guy is Lawrence Olivier, but he's really not as limited as
Hollywood has made him. However, if you're gonna be typecast, being typecast
as "likeable" ain't an awful way to limit a career.
>but John Lithgow always makes a great villain, 3rd Rock being an embarrassment
>IMHO (even for that show, he was way too over the top).
I agree on both points. "3rd Rock" wasn't funny terribly often, especially
after Wayne Knight joined the cast. (A little of him goes a long way.) Lithgow
needs to return all those Emmys; the academy was just sucking up to a movie
and theater actor lowering himself to do a tv series. Thank heavens Garner
never treated tv so cavalierly.
>Highly recommended viewing: Ricochet with Lithgow (as a GREAT villain)
>and Denzel Washington, a truly scary movie that deserved to do better at
>the box office than it did, but probably stiffed due to the fact that even
>the hero (Washington) had a dark past that made it hard to fully like him.
I'll look for that movie; thanks. I also liked Lithgow in "Blow Out", an
earlier movie villain (and one of many movies to revive John Travolta's roller
coaster career from inevitable low points; don't hate the movie for that).
Lithgow also gives a famous comic performance in "The World According to Garp",
a movie that's interesting but not great (though improving on its source
material).
George Willikers
you can do. But wasn't Jim's movie debut in "Up Periscope" in the 50's? I
recall that his charater wasn't all that likable in that movie.
George
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.020318...@chinet.chinet.com...
Craig Gordon
"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.chinet.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.020318...@chinet.chinet.com...
of it, and its definitely worth $5 to rent at Blockbuster. Another movie
currently on cable with Lithgow as a great villain is Cliffhanger. I have a
hard time with Sly Stallone in anything, and Janine Turner, tho cute as
hell, can't act to save her life. However. Lithgow in villain mode is a joy
to watch (guess its a terrible way to be typecast, but I sure as hell wish
he'd stay with those roles!)
Ah what the heck? Good villains make the movie usually. I know this is
slightly off topic, but who was the best movie villain ever? I nominate Alan
Rickman in the first Die Hard movie, with a close second being Aldo Celli in
Thunderball. Anyone care to chip in on this?
Dan Morisseau
stated...
> Wambaugh's name is on the wonderful anthology series "Police Story", but he
> had nothing to do with running the show.
Agreed! At its best (it did have a few "turkey" episodes) "Police
Story" was as good as it gets. The only thing comparable right now is
NYPD Blue. And the theme music was up there with Rckford Files as well.
"Police Sotry is another series that needs its own newsgroup or mailing
list ...
--
Dan Morisseau, N7ZXL - N 38°34'53", W 90°22'32", 680'
On the sunrise side of Mo-Pac's famous Kirkwood Hill!
Watkins Johnson HF-1000: 60' Random Wire & Palomar Loop
ICOM R-7000/Optocom: Discone
"When the going gets rough, the tough go cyclic!"
Adam H. Kerman
>Ah what the heck? Good villains make the movie usually. I know this is
>slightly off topic, but who was the best movie villain ever? I nominate Alan
>Rickman in the first Die Hard movie, with a close second being Aldo Celli in
>Thunderball. Anyone care to chip in on this?
Lionel Barrymore in several movies, especially "It's a Wonderful Life".
Orson Welles, "The Third Man" and "A Touch of Evil"
John Huston, "Chinatown" (a movie in which I don't like Nicholson)
Angela Landsbury, "The Manchurian Candidate"
Joseph Cotten, "Shadow of a Doubt" (playing against type)
Walter Brennen, "My Darling Clementine"
Otto Premminger, "Stalag 17"
Sessue Hayakawa, "Bridge on the River Kwai"
Broderick Crawford in a whole bunch of parts, including "Born Yestiday"
RNeill22
Choosing one Best Movie Villain out of the thousands of worthy choices is too
big a task for me to tackle. In addition to the excellent choices suggested
already, I'd like to nominate
Richard Kiel as 'Jaws' in The Spy Who Loved Me (but not in 'Moonraker' where he
goes soft)
and
Patrick McGoohan as the evil King in Braveheart.
Craig Gordon
"RNeill22" <rnei...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020321155021...@mb-cf.news.cs.com...
My goodness! I started this thing and i forgot maybe the greatest of them
all--
LEE MARVIN (Man Who Shot Liberty Valance AND The Big Heat, with Glenn Ford
and Gloria Grahame-- a Great Yet Forgotten film noir classic).
jcollins25
Mike O'Sullivan
"jcollins25" <jcoll...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020404184203...@mb-ce.aol.com...
> Tim Roth in Rob Roy
Yes I loved him in that. The vicious and deadly Archie
Cunningham. Great part.