OT: Big Brother 3
www.tonez.co.uk
prisoner-ish.
Zorba.
www.tonez.co.uk <please.reply...@or.visit.tonez.co.uk> wrote in
message news:nasJ8.1986$cA.9...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
> What do you think of the new Big Brother series? I suppose the idea is a
bit
> prisoner-ish.
>
>
Also, it's supposed to be frank and "fly on the wall" but is heavily edited.
Looks like us British kidding ourselves again.
While the people are busy watching themselves, new ideas will not be
developed. New ideas are nasty dangerous things and are best kept away from
people.
Like when the "Test The Nation" IQ tests were made simpler for the UK than
for any of the other European nations that took part.
The Dome, (green or otherwise) is no more.
I notice that politicians like Stephen Byers are regularly being removed
like failed No 2's. From what I can gather it's sufficient for there to be a
furore and a press barrage. Actual transgressions are not necessary any
more. A great cry of "unmutual" goes up and down the hatch he goes.
Watching the Mark Thomas Television Programme it struck me as very surreal
and Prisonerish indeed that we live in a country the maps of which contain
large blanks where massive government installations have been scrubbed out
of existence by something as simple as a girl with an eraser at the Ordnance
Survey. If the Soviets had ever got hold of that girl we'd have been
finished. No city would be safe. We would all be driving around looking for
the midlands, never mind wondering where the Village was.
We are surrounded with CCTV cameras. God knows who is watching through them
but I'll hazard a guess that it's the other half of the population. Pretty
soon we'll all have to stand in for them on their days off.
The strange fashions worn in TP, like multicoloured capes and the like have
always struck me as being very likely and believable as part of the
inevitable solipsystic drift whould be inevitable in a closed and isolated
community.
At least until we are knocked out of the World Cup, the union jack bowler
will never be far away. I don't know about you but it puts me in a place
somewhere between TP and "A Clockwork Orange". Have you noticed how
multicoloured umbrellas have caught on? Was TP the source of this do you
think? Or was it me?
Zorba.
Brian Watson
"www.tonez.co.uk" <please.reply...@or.visit.tonez.co.uk> wrote in
message news:nasJ8.1986$cA.9...@news8-gui.server.ntli.net...
bit
> prisoner-ish.
Very, but self-imposed, which I find very odd.
I think they have a problem now and that is the fact that new recruits know
what is involved.
The first lot had no idea what was going on outside or what of their lives
was/was not being aired.
In a way it's the same problem we periodically kick around here - that of
doing another Prisoner series.
We've had the denouement once and you can't pull a cracker twice.
--
Brian
"When all about you is crumbling, when the arse is falling out of your
world, you need to focus on something positive in your life. Something you
can control, improve even."
Steve Dix
<zorbathe...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
> No city would be safe. We would all be driving around looking for
> the midlands, never mind wondering where the Village was.
>
Try driving in Birmingham city centre. ;->
Darren Stokes1
Endured some of it last year ( BB2) because I knew one of the contestants ! .
The only thing it has in common with the Priz are cameras , other than that is
a waste of license payers Money ! .
PURE SHITE !
Comments Welcome as usual !
Lew Stringer
zorbathe...@btopenworld.com wrote on 30/5/2002 7:34 PM:
> Like when the "Test The Nation" IQ tests were made simpler for the UK than
> for any of the other European nations that took part.
They probably need to be. Rant time. This country has been intentionally
dumbed-down by the controlling elite (Phony Blair and the Tories before
him). I remember the days, only a couple of decades ago, when you could buy
paperback fiction in most newsagents. Not now. I was in my local high street
revamped Woolworths the other day, looking for the book section. Couldn't
find it. Asked an assistant. Here's how the conversation went:
Me: Excuse me. Could you tell me where the book section is please?
Assistant: Magazine books? Over by point of entry. (The entrance, for those
of us who detest jargon).
Me: No. They're magazines. I'm looking for books. You used to have a book
section.
Assistant: Children's books?
Me: No.
Assistant (puzzled): What kind of books then?
Me: Fiction. Paperback books.
Assistant (showing me tiny display of books on cooking, yoga and D.I.Y):
Thems the only ones we got nah.
Me: They're books about things, but I'm looking for fiction. Are you saying
Woolworths don't sell fiction anymore?
Assistant (puzzled): Eh? Not instore at present. (More jargon). Things
might change back at a later date.
Me: It's unlikely though, isn't it? Thanks anyway.
Okay. I know Woolworths has never been the *best* place to look for books,
but in many small towns it's one of the only outlets. My point is; this is
yet another store that has deliberately decreased/ obliterated its fiction
section. "It's only Woolies", but it's another nail in the coffin for
literacy. That same day I visited our local Waterstones bookshop (that and
WH Smiths being our only shops that sell books now). I overheard the manager
telling a rep (or visiting supervisor) that local people "only want to read
about subjects. Fiction doesn't do well for us". There was an item on this
on the news yesterday. Apparently an "expert" from a literary society said
"It doesn't matter what people read, as long as they're reading something".
I disagree. For one thing, that gives people the excuse that soap gossip
mags are on the same level as literature as a structured novel. For another,
I think that reading fiction provides different mental stimulation than
reading a factual article. Fiction can be thought-provoking. Factual
articles inform, but rarely enrich the imagination in the same way.
Conspiracy theory/Prisoner connection time: an imaginative, intelligent
population poses more of a threat of revolution to its government than a
citizenship pacified by gossip mags and trivia.If a government wanted to
reduce the imagination of its public, wouldn't discouraging imaginative
fiction (in prose,and other media such as tv and comics) be one way to do
it? Or is that just the comics writer in me taking hold? Fact: comic
publishers in the UK are deliberately steering away from fiction thesedays,
prefrering to publish "activity mags" ie; colouring books, etc. instead. How
imaginative will the next generation be? ;)
A.N.Other
wrote:
Pure Shite, yes. Waste of licence payers' money, no. It's not made by
Auntie, so how could it be funded from your licence fee? Now if you
were to target Neighbours...
;-)
Zorba.
Lew Stringer <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:B91C7DF9.C18B%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
conspiring to prevent their members from reading good material. I recently
purchased "I Claudius" and "Claudius the God" from my local library. They
were "withdrawn from stock" and cost me the princely sum of 50p each. Why
were they withdrawn? "We withdraw them if they haven't moved for a while" I
was told.
I would have thought it a librarian's duty to draw the attention of library
users to books worth reading, instead of disposing of what are by today's
standadrds classics.
Now here's a story you won't believe. It proves nothing, but is an amusing
illustration of the sort of benighted individuals who are sometimes to be
found
running bookshops. In a small town near where I live is a large shop
selling greetings cards, sweets and some paperback books. It recently
sharply reduced it's stock of books and now concentrates more on the "tat"
market. Nevertheless until recently it held quite a large stock, esp.
dictionaries and the like. I went in one day and quite innocently asked the
manager if he had "Roget's Thesaurus".
He said "Yes, I think we do have it" and disappeared for ten minutes.
Then he returned - with a packet of "Ferrero Rocher" chocolates.
Collapse of stout party.
Zorba.
Brian Watson
"Lew Stringer" <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:B91C7DF9.C18B%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
> zorbathe...@btopenworld.com wrote on 30/5/2002 7:34 PM:
>
> Rant time. This country has been intentionally
> dumbed-down by the controlling elite (Phony Blair and the Tories before
> him). I remember the days, only a couple of decades ago, when you could
buy
> paperback fiction in most newsagents.
> Okay. I know Woolworths has never been the *best* place to look for books,
> but in many small towns it's one of the only outlets. My point is; this is
> yet another store that has deliberately decreased/ obliterated its fiction
> section. "It's only Woolies", but it's another nail in the coffin for
> literacy. That same day I visited our local Waterstones bookshop (that and
> WH Smiths being our only shops that sell books now). I overheard the
manager
> telling a rep (or visiting supervisor) that local people "only want to
read
> about subjects. Fiction doesn't do well for us".
On the availability of "subject" books over fiction, I'm for a mixed economy
of reading.
It does brass me off when the sort of factual books that are produced are
plainly *only* produced to sell, rather than be an enrichment to the sum of
human knowledge.
It's often the same sort of glossy, colourful, ephemera that "graces" whole
channels of cooking and makeover programmes on cable/Sky.
How many meals can a person prepare in a lifetime, fer Chrissake? How many
worthwhile uses are there for Bacofoil and a stippling brush?
All that, like the pap coffee table books, is *just* eye candy - buy a book
on cooking and thus persuade yourself you have the whole "cooking thing"
well learnt and under your control - not an area in your life you need to
feel insecure about.
My step-father went through a succession of full-immersion hobbies that were
all ways by which he was trying to control a little bit of the universe,
that bit that surrounded him.
Cacti, caravans, greenhouses, little yappy dogs, viewing houses that were
for sale without any intention of moving, and a couple more too bizarre to
itemise here. Extraordinary.
I write, and I often rub shoulders with professional writers and
broadcasters who feel that producing this sort of visual crap is an
honorable use of their talents.
I'm reminded of a cartoon in Punch some years ago in which an artist (thus
identified by the easel and brushes under his arm) is standing in a line at
a social security office and saying to the next person in line, "...and then
I realised I has run out of art to prostitute..."
> There was an item on this
> on the news yesterday. Apparently an "expert" from a literary society said
> "It doesn't matter what people read, as long as they're reading
something".
> I disagree.
Me too, it's over-simplistic and patronising.
> For one thing, that gives people the excuse that soap gossip
> mags are on the same level as literature as a structured novel.
Surrogate living, I call soap watching.
> For another,
> I think that reading fiction provides different mental stimulation than
> reading a factual article. Fiction can be thought-provoking. Factual
> articles inform, but rarely enrich the imagination in the same way.
They don't, but they ought to.
>
> Conspiracy theory/Prisoner connection time: an imaginative, intelligent
> population poses more of a threat of revolution to its government than a
> citizenship pacified by gossip mags and trivia.If a government wanted to
> reduce the imagination of its public, wouldn't discouraging imaginative
> fiction (in prose,and other media such as tv and comics) be one way to do
> it?
I think it's slightly more pernicious than that.
I don't think "the powers that be" need to work on dumbing down the
population because the commercial world of publishing has found the formula
for grinding out saleable crap, just as the music business has, so the
government doesn't need to intervene.
The crap sells by the shedload and the government (whichever government) can
point to the sales graphs and say we are all reading more.
> Or is that just the comics writer in me taking hold? Fact: comic
> publishers in the UK are deliberately steering away from fiction
thesedays,
> prefrering to publish "activity mags" ie; colouring books, etc. instead.
I've lived through the collapse of the comics industry in the UK since the
early 1950s when Eagle and co first knocked our socks off with the creative
writing and gorgeous artwork and American comics were carried into the UK as
ballast on cargo ships.
There was a range of reading, with and without illustrations, that was cheap
and richly stimulating.
Its blandness now could be quite depressing if I let myself be dragged down
that cul-de-sac.
David Mackenzie
> Big Brother is complete bollocks !
Yesterday, one of the contestants left because it "wasn't what she
expected". I just think it's becuase she was bored.
> Endured some of it last year ( BB2) because I knew one of the contestants ! .
Weren't you actually in it last year, under the name "Bubble" :)
After the first one, Dave Healey told me that he was expecting a huge
load of letters all about it. He was a bit worried because he hadn't
watched it. How many letters did he get? None at all.
You can't compare the Priz to Big Brother.
David.
Lew Stringer
at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 31/5/2002 8:38 AM:
> I've lived through the collapse of the comics industry in the UK since the
> early 1950s when Eagle and co first knocked our socks off with the creative
> writing and gorgeous artwork and American comics were carried into the UK as
> ballast on cargo ships.
>
> There was a range of reading, with and without illustrations, that was cheap
> and richly stimulating.
>
> Its blandness now could be quite depressing if I let myself be dragged down
> that cul-de-sac.
Imagine how we who work in the comics industry feel! I spent a couple of
years where the main area of work was in preschool magazines. Naturally, I
put my best efforts into it, and that age group is important as it's the
formative years, but the lack of comics for the 7 to 11 age bracket was
noticible. Things are starting to shift again now, but comics are definitely
less literate than they were a few decades ago. It has been a gradual
decline since the post-war years, as you say. I grew up in the sixties, and
I've noticed the change over the past 40 years.
Lew Stringer
zorbathe...@btopenworld.com wrote on 31/5/2002 2:33 AM:
> In a small town near where I live is a large shop
> selling greetings cards, sweets and some paperback books. It recently
> sharply reduced it's stock of books and now concentrates more on the "tat"
> market. Nevertheless until recently it held quite a large stock, esp.
> dictionaries and the like. I went in one day and quite innocently asked the
> manager if he had "Roget's Thesaurus".
> He said "Yes, I think we do have it" and disappeared for ten minutes.
> Then he returned - with a packet of "Ferrero Rocher" chocolates.
> Collapse of stout party.
> Zorba.
LOL! I once asked an art shop assistant if they sold Lightboxes. "Yes," said
the assistant, "You mean a lightweight carry case for pens and pencils
etc.?". :)
redcat
"Lew Stringer" <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:B91C7DF9.C18B%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
people were choosing to read fiction over newspapers. Of courses, DIY and
cooking might still rank over fiction, but that wasn't in the article. Just
the first part: fiction over news.
redcat
Steve Dix
<br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Surrogate living, I call soap watching.
>
Something that always puzzled me is why don't you see people in soaps
sitting for hours on end watching that evening's soaps?
Because, let's face it, that's what most people do.
Me? Well, building the Striker (Lotus 7 lookalike) was the best thing
I ever did. Because instead of sitting and staring at the gogglebox I
would go out to the garage and have a couple of hours on building the
car. Totally broke the habit of watching the TV.
Nowadays, TV is something I watch whilst doing my ironing. Even
then, I'm watching it in german, so it's a bit more educational than
usual.
However, most of my spare time is either spent playing guitar,
recording (with a computer program) stuff I've written, or playing
with one of three bands I'm now in.
TV doesn't really get a look-in these days.
Zorba.
Brian Watson <br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1022830733.1414.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "Lew Stringer" <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:B91C7DF9.C18B%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
> > in article ad5rbp$skt$2...@knossos.btinternet.com, Zorba. at
> > zorbathe...@btopenworld.com wrote on 30/5/2002 7:34 PM:
> point to the sales graphs and say we are all reading more.
>
> > Or is that just the comics writer in me taking hold? Fact: comic
> > publishers in the UK are deliberately steering away from fiction
> thesedays,
> > prefrering to publish "activity mags" ie; colouring books, etc. instead.
>
> I've lived through the collapse of the comics industry in the UK since the
> early 1950s when Eagle and co first knocked our socks off with the
creative
> writing and gorgeous artwork and American comics were carried into the UK
as
> ballast on cargo ships.
>
> There was a range of reading, with and without illustrations, that was
cheap
> and richly stimulating.
>
> Its blandness now could be quite depressing if I let myself be dragged
down
> that cul-de-sac.
>
> --
> Brian
There is some light on the horizon. The graphic novel is alive well, and
there are many inspired works of this genre. The Fellini/Manara cooperation
(and later Manara's solo output), the work of Peter Cheung, and the rebirth
of the italian "fumetti" are something we can all rejoice in. There are
still good things if we look for them; they may not at the moment be
attracting the feeding - frenzy of the masses but that will I'm sure one day
change.
I too was entranced by the artwork and stories in the"Eagle" comic. I used
to get very depressed about the stereotypes pushed in the "traditional"
children's comics; actually felt angry at the portrayal of germans who were
allowed only to say "Hande Hoch!" and "Donnerwetter" and "Gott in Himmel!"
before dying in the
unremitting war stories. It doesn't advance the cause of human understanding
one jot - and I found that poor stuff.
Is "Crisis" still on the go? I look for it occasionally in WHS or wherever
but in vain. To me it seemed like a breath of fresh air.
Zorba.
"Dance, you Welshwomen, dance!"
Brian Watson
> in article 1022830733.1414.0...@news.demon.co.uk, Brian
Watson
> at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 31/5/2002 8:38 AM:
> > Its blandness now could be quite depressing if I let myself be dragged
down
> > that cul-de-sac.
>
>
>
> Imagine how we who work in the comics industry feel!
Hey, Viz is still cutting-edge, and 2000AD is still miles better than most
American comics.
> I spent a couple of
> years where the main area of work was in preschool magazines. Naturally, I
> put my best efforts into it, and that age group is important as it's the
> formative years, but the lack of comics for the 7 to 11 age bracket was
> noticible. Things are starting to shift again now, but comics are
definitely
> less literate than they were a few decades ago. It has been a gradual
> decline since the post-war years, as you say. I grew up in the sixties,
and
> I've noticed the change over the past 40 years.
What do you reckon - a collective wrist-slashing, or hang in there and try
to make it better?
:-)
--
Brian
"Let's be grateful for our Fridays and face our Mondays with good humour."
Brian Watson
"redcat" <red...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:ad7upo$oc6$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> I just this week saw an article that said British
> people were choosing to read fiction over newspapers.
Same thing.
--
Brian
"The wind, do you hear it? It says 'Hel ... looo'"
Brian Watson
"Zorba." <zorbathe...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ad92kd$m55$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> There is some light on the horizon. The graphic novel is alive well, and
> there are many inspired works of this genre. The Fellini/Manara
cooperation
> (and later Manara's solo output), the work of Peter Cheung, and the
rebirth
> of the italian "fumetti" are something we can all rejoice in.
True. The graphic novel (up market comic for those who don't know) are often
very good indeed.
> Is "Crisis" still on the go?
Unfortuately not.
Steve Dix
<zorbathe...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>I too was entranced by the artwork and stories in the"Eagle" comic.
Me too. I was amazed to discover the hoops that Frank Hampson and the
original Dan Dare team put themselves through just to produce two
sides of original comic art.
> I used
>to get very depressed about the stereotypes pushed in the "traditional"
>children's comics; actually felt angry at the portrayal of germans who were
>allowed only to say "Hande Hoch!" and "Donnerwetter" and "Gott in Himmel!"
>before dying in the
>unremitting war stories. It doesn't advance the cause of human understanding
>one jot - and I found that poor stuff.
>
Every time I come over to the UK I have to put up with the legacy of
those comics, which is particularly upsetting because my girlfriend is
german. These days I'm amazed that IPC managed to get away with
extending the war right into the 70's with strings of war comics that
telegraphed the idea that "the only good German was a dead one".
There must have been someone at IPC who really hated them.
Paul Sexton
<zorbathe...@btopenworld.com> writes
>I too was entranced by the artwork and stories in the"Eagle" comic. I used
>to get very depressed about the stereotypes pushed in the "traditional"
>children's comics; actually felt angry at the portrayal of germans who were
>allowed only to say "Hande Hoch!" and "Donnerwetter" and "Gott in Himmel!"
>before dying in the
>unremitting war stories. It doesn't advance the cause of human understanding
>one jot - and I found that poor stuff.
>
You forgot "Achtung" & "Donner und blitzen" :)
However, this stuff about war stories of the 1960s reminds me of another
hero who never used a gun. Captain Hercules Hurricane in "The Valiant"
always beat the Nazis with his fists or threw them over walls etc.
--
Paul Sexton Paul's Radio Museum
http://www.paulplu.demon.co.uk/radio/
Return address anti-spammed
email to Paul at paulplu dot demon dot co dot uk
redcat
I thought the argument was that people aren't reading enough fiction, but
are reading diy and cooking. Never mind.
rc
Brian Watson
"Paul Sexton" <Pa...@shut.up.bloody.vikings> wrote in message
news:G6OMP6AE...@shut.up.bloody.vikings...
> ... this stuff about war stories of the 1960s reminds me of another
> hero who never used a gun. Captain Hercules Hurricane in "The Valiant"
> always beat the Nazis with his fists or threw them over walls etc.
Ah, that's allright then!
:-))
It was all *just* fiction to me.
I don't remember hating the Germans because of it, nor feeling odd about
starting German lessons at school in 1960, any more than I had it in for the
Indians - heck, Tonto and Chingachcook (got a complaint? "You* spell it!)
were Indians.
--
Brian
"You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop
laughing."
www.tonez.co.uk
news:5c7dfu0iuloh71ci5...@4ax.com...
I think Sandy just hummed the Prisoner theme tune.
Alice Clar
"Brian Watson" <br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1022830733.1414.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
> Its blandness now could be quite depressing if I let myself be dragged
down
> that cul-de-sac.
>
I think the whole Vertigo comic brand is great. They are intellectual and on
the whole well-drawn.
Brian Watson
"Alice Clar" <alic...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ade3h2$qsa$2...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Agreed.
And the "Max" line has turned into a good adult series with plenty of dry
humour and gratuitous violence, thereby making some good points about
gratuitous violence.
:-)
--
Brian
"Happy St George's Day. It either is, just was, or soon will be."
Lew Stringer
The quality and effectiveness of the Vertigo and Max lines are in the eye of
the beholder of course. Vertigo are more cerebral, wheras Max Comics go for
the gut usually. What is undeniable however is that neither imprint sells
very well. In the whole of America during April, the highest selling Max
Comic , which was Black Widow No.1, only sold 36,596 copies. Vertigo's
comics didn't even figure in the top 100, which means they're selling less
than 19,000 copies per issue! Bearing in mind that these sales are the
direct order (non-returnable firm sale) numbers that shops order, not sales
to customers, and you can see what a tiny niché market there is for such
comics in America now.
Vertigo comics do better in Europe, and I've heard from their editors that
its the international sales that keep them afloat. Nevertheless, they're not
causing any upswing in standards of literacy in general.
For all their bluster and hype, even the mainstream Marvel comics aren't
doing great thesedays. Marvel's top seller, New X-Men, only sold 104,185
copies across America in April. A pathetic amount considering the population
of the country! (Even Amazing Spider-Man only sold 99,273 copies, and that's
with all the movie publicity!) Considering a small country like Britain can
shift 188,000 copies of Viz every month, and 200,000 copies of The Beano
every week, maybe the USA should consider doing humour comics! ;)
Lew Stringer
red...@ix.netcom.com wrote on 1/6/2002 3:31 PM:
>
> "Brian Watson" <br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1022927829.11012....@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> "redcat" <red...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:ad7upo$oc6$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
>>> I just this week saw an article that said British
>>> people were choosing to read fiction over newspapers.
But then again newspaper sales are lower than they used to be.
>>
>> Same thing.
>>
>> --
>> Brian
>> "The wind, do you hear it? It says 'Hel ... looo'"
>>
>
> I thought the argument was that people aren't reading enough fiction, but
> are reading diy and cooking. Never mind.
>
> rc
>
>
Seems it depends which survey you read. One thing is for sure though; there
are less outlets selling fiction now. I remember when almost every local
corner newsagent sold paperback books and/or science-fiction magazines
(Analog; Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, etc). There were lots of
fiction magazines (pulps,etc) years ago. Not any more. Therefore, unless
someone travels into town to make the effort to visit a bookshop, they'll
never read any fiction! Speaking as someone who grew up on a council estate,
you'd be surprised at the number of people who can't be bothered to shop in
town - and although years ago they might pick up a fiction mag from the
corner shop on an impulse purchase, they won't bother visiting Waterstones.
So effectively, they'll never develop the fiction-reading habit.
Johnny Drake
> the beholder of course. Vertigo are more cerebral, wheras Max Comics go for
> the gut usually. What is undeniable however is that neither imprint sells
> very well. In the whole of America during April, the highest selling Max
> Comic , which was Black Widow No.1, only sold 36,596 copies. Vertigo's
> comics didn't even figure in the top 100, which means they're selling less
> than 19,000 copies per issue! Bearing in mind that these sales are the
> direct order (non-returnable firm sale) numbers that shops order, not sales
> to customers, and you can see what a tiny niché market there is for such
> comics in America now.
>
> Vertigo comics do better in Europe, and I've heard from their editors that
> its the international sales that keep them afloat. Nevertheless, they're not
> causing any upswing in standards of literacy in general.
>
> For all their bluster and hype, even the mainstream Marvel comics aren't
> doing great thesedays. Marvel's top seller, New X-Men, only sold 104,185
> copies across America in April. A pathetic amount considering the population
> of the country! (Even Amazing Spider-Man only sold 99,273 copies, and that's
> with all the movie publicity!) Considering a small country like Britain can
> shift 188,000 copies of Viz every month, and 200,000 copies of The Beano
> every week, maybe the USA should consider doing humour comics! ;)
LOL!! Come off it! If you are to be believed, there are more people
reading your strips in Viz the comic than there are people reading
Amazing Spiderman in the whole United States! Rubbish! I was wondering
where this thread was going. You are using it for blatant self
promotion. JConn2299 was right about you. He has been right all along.
Care to tell us where you got these figures from exactly? I'll bet you
$10,000 you made them up! Care to take the bet? Or are you going to
back down yet again Stringer? HAHAHAHA!
Lew Stringer
"Johnny Drake" eh? How original. I'm getting a little sick and tired of
goons like you and a couple of other trolls with your purile attempts at
character assasination. Here's the FACTS, goon:
Go to your nearest comics store. Look at the May dated issue of Comics
International (which is one of the comics industry's leading trade papers).
Page 56: Comics Economics ("The Top 100 US comicbook sales for April 2002").
What's at position 4? Amazing Spider-Man. Sales: 99,273. Okay?
Go to this website:
http://www.abc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=abc&noc=y&type=
The ABC circulation figures are the recognized official figures for
newspapers and magazines throughout the UK. They're what publishers use to
sell advertising. Do a search for Viz. Sales are around 178,000. (Okay. It
dropped a couple of thousand since I last looked. Big deal. It STILL
outsells Amazing Spider-Man and X-Men. And Superman and Batman, and any
other American comic if you're interested).
So, yes, there are more people reading my strips in Viz than there are
buying Amazing Spider-Man. There are however foreign editions of Spidey, so
overall, Spidey is better known, but my point concerned the English-language
versions. Of which, Viz outsells Spidey. The main point was to show that
comics are only a tiny niché market. Not to promote myself. Clear?
Oh, one more point, "Johnny". Next time you troll, try to change your speech
patterns a bit. Some of us might think that - shock horror- you might be
another guy who's keen on $10,000 bets around here. Dead giveaway that. ;)
I won't accept your dumb bet, even though I've just proven you wrong beyond
a shadow of a doubt. I'll accept your apology though, should you be man
enough to post it.
Johnny Drake
O.K. you were right about the sales figures. Jeez. I was only having
a joke. I thought you cartoonists had a sense of humor! Why are you
picking a fight with me? Maybe I have used an alias or two. Maybe I
have not. It's my right to keep that information to myself. Don't
start judging a man til you've walked a mile in his shoes stringer!
Does everyone agree with me on that? Damn straight they do.
Howard Risby
Johnny Drake <ta...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:daad68c6.02060...@posting.google.com...
This is the sort of person who supports the present "6 of 1".
Well, big fleas have little fleas. It's a useful warning to potential
victims though.
If anyone wishes to join, this is the sort of company you will be keeping.
Do try to enjoy the experience won't you.
Howie.
Lew Stringer
>
> O.K. you were right about the sales figures. Jeez. I was only having
> a joke. I thought you cartoonists had a sense of humor! Why are you
> picking a fight with me? Maybe I have used an alias or two. Maybe I
> have not. It's my right to keep that information to myself. Don't
> start judging a man til you've walked a mile in his shoes stringer!
> Does everyone agree with me on that? Damn straight they do.
Ah, the old "I was only joking" excuse when one is caught out eh, "Johnny"?
And at the risk of sounding as pathetic as yourself, "You started the fight"
remember.
Does everyone agree with you? I doubt it very much.
Howard Risby
Howard Risby <howar...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:...
>
> Johnny Drake <ta...@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
> news:daad68c6.02060...@posting.google.com...
> > Lew Stringer <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:<B9215AAA.C1F6%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com>...
> > a joke. I thought you cartoonists had a sense of humor! Why are you
> > picking a fight with me? Maybe I have used an alias or two. Maybe I
> > have not. It's my right to keep that information to myself. Don't
> > start judging a man til you've walked a mile in his shoes stringer!
> > Does everyone agree with me on that? Damn straight they do.
>
www.tonez.co.uk
> >>> I just this week saw an article that said British
> >>> people were choosing to read fiction over newspapers.
>
> But then again newspaper sales are lower than they used to be.
A lot more people have Internet access, so dont need to buy snoozepapers
anymore. I think a lot of people think that you cant believe what you read in
them thesedays either.
Lew Stringer
www.tonez.co.uk at please.reply...@or.visit.tonez.co.uk wrote on
4/6/2002 11:23 AM:
Interestingly, sales of broadsheets are picking up, but tabloid sales are
decreasing. Maybe people are getting sick of the trivia in those papers,
and, like you say, find The Sun and Daily Star hard to believe. Maybe you
can only dumb down the people so far before they smell a rat? Then again;
there's the popularity of Big Brother and countless makeover shows so I
dunno...
Brian Watson
"www.tonez.co.uk" <please.reply...@or.visit.tonez.co.uk> wrote in
message news:My0L8.48322$wd3.7...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Whereas trusting what you read on the internet is much more .... er ... um
... oh, never mind.
:-)
--
Brian
"Stuck down a hole, in the fog, in the middle of the night, with an owl."
Brian Watson
> One thing is for sure though; there
> are less outlets selling fiction now.
The US comics sales network through newsagents collapsed in the UK a few
years ago when Titan (I think) got greedy and said to the US publishers,
"don't bother with any other distributors, we'll do it all in the UK!"
Whereupon they signed the deal and promptly started dealing exclusively with
Comics Shops and Sci-Fi outlets. Bastards.
Newsagents can no longer get them, it appears, so if your local town doesn't
have a Comics shop - or the people who run it are muppets - you are screwed.
Lew Stringer
Watson at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 4/6/2002 4:43 PM:
>
> "Lew Stringer" <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:B92103E8.C1DB%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
>
>> One thing is for sure though; there
>> are less outlets selling fiction now.
>
> The US comics sales network through newsagents collapsed in the UK a few
> years ago when Titan (I think) got greedy and said to the US publishers,
> "don't bother with any other distributors, we'll do it all in the UK!"
>
> Whereupon they signed the deal and promptly started dealing exclusively with
> Comics Shops and Sci-Fi outlets. Bastards.
Not sure of the details, but you may be right.
>
> Newsagents can no longer get them, it appears, so if your local town doesn't
> have a Comics shop - or the people who run it are muppets - you are screwed.
One of our local newsagents gets DC comics very, very occassionally, about 3
years out of date, and out of sequence, with a huge unremovable UK bar code
sticker bearing something like: "Special price 99p". Unsolds from
Titan/Diamond perhaps?
However, it has to be said that many newsagents simply don't want to stock
comics anymore. They have the attitude of "Why should I stock comics that I
might only sell a few of, when I can stock birthday cards that I'll
eventually sell ALL of, and reap a higher percentage per item". At least
that's what a comics editor told me.
Lew
Howard Risby
money.
The tabloids are more about distracting the public's attention away from the
news
than they are about responsible reportage. I've often wondered why so little
attention is paid to the Sunday papers like the News Of The World and Sunday
Sport. They are composed of very little else but written pornography and yet
even at the height of Mary Whitehouse's activity and the "Festival of Light"
it was impossible to draw her/their attention to them. I found MW's
attitudes repellent but looking at it from the point of view of such a
person one might have surmised that the appearance of such papers
exclusively on their Sabbath would have been considered an affront. Instead
the FOL doggedly persevered in counting boobs in telly programmes.
Obviously some bread was being buttered but on which side and by whom?
Whatever the reason these scurrilous publications are apparently immune!
Howie.
Lew Stringer
howar...@btinternet.com wrote on 4/6/2002 10:53 PM:
> Totally in agreement. I read The Guardian and it's incredible value for
> money.
> The tabloids are more about distracting the public's attention away from the
> news
> than they are about responsible reportage. I've often wondered why so little
> attention is paid to the Sunday papers like the News Of The World and Sunday
> Sport. They are composed of very little else but written pornography and yet
> even at the height of Mary Whitehouse's activity and the "Festival of Light"
> it was impossible to draw her/their attention to them. I found MW's
> attitudes repellent but looking at it from the point of view of such a
> person one might have surmised that the appearance of such papers
> exclusively on their Sabbath would have been considered an affront. Instead
> the FOL doggedly persevered in counting boobs in telly programmes.
> Obviously some bread was being buttered but on which side and by whom?
> Whatever the reason these scurrilous publications are apparently immune!
>
> Howie.
>
>
I suppose because Mary Whitehouse was running the Viewers and Listeners
Association she wanted to focus on the tv rather than print media. Having
said that, she once said that the little corner shop she was born over (in
my own home town) had become a pornographic bookshop. Completely untrue. It
was a newsagents (and still is) which, like most, sold a selection of soft
core porn. One of the titles in the shop: Whitehouse. Maybe that's what
really riled her! :)
(Although after her death, but not as a result of it, Tony (Christian
standards) Blair's Labour government quietly legalised hard core porn to be
sold in high street newsagents. I suspect that Whitehouse is now hard core,
so MW's lie has become a prophesy from beyond the grave.)
Lew Stringer
howar...@btinternet.com wrote on 4/6/2002 10:53 PM:
> Totally in agreement. I read The Guardian and it's incredible value for
> money.
> The tabloids are more about distracting the public's attention away from the
> news
> than they are about responsible reportage. I've often wondered why so little
> attention is paid to the Sunday papers like the News Of The World and Sunday
> Sport. They are composed of very little else but written pornography and yet
> even at the height of Mary Whitehouse's activity and the "Festival of Light"
> it was impossible to draw her/their attention to them. I found MW's
> attitudes repellent but looking at it from the point of view of such a
> person one might have surmised that the appearance of such papers
> exclusively on their Sabbath would have been considered an affront. Instead
> the FOL doggedly persevered in counting boobs in telly programmes.
> Obviously some bread was being buttered but on which side and by whom?
> Whatever the reason these scurrilous publications are apparently immune!
>
> Howie.
>
>
Of course it was always the print media that gave Mary Whitehouse a lot of
publicity. Maybe she didn't want to restrict her exposure (ooer missus) by
upsetting the editors? Christian fanatics often have double standards when
it comes to morality. (See previous comment about Tony Blair, plus countless
stories of evil Priests in the news,etc....ad inifitum).
Brian Watson
> One of our local newsagents gets DC comics very, very occassionally, about
3
> years out of date, and out of sequence, with a huge unremovable UK bar
code
> sticker bearing something like: "Special price 99p". Unsolds from
> Titan/Diamond perhaps?
Either that or someone buys them from Titan/Diamond and repackages them.
Have you seen them arriving recently, as I know one distributor at least
cleared out their remaining stocks that way when the exclusivity deal was
done?
>
> However, it has to be said that many newsagents simply don't want to stock
> comics anymore. They have the attitude of "Why should I stock comics that
I
> might only sell a few of, when I can stock birthday cards that I'll
> eventually sell ALL of, and reap a higher percentage per item". At least
> that's what a comics editor told me.
He lied, or rather he didn't tell the whole truth.
The margins on cards are generally "buy it for 50p - sell it for a pound",
only slightly less than that for magazines and worse still for newspapers.
However, a newsagent's basic business remains news and periodicals - not
cards - and the better part of that is periodicals, including comics.
If you, as a shopkeeper, give up your periodicals' space to cards, your
customers go elsewhere for them, and the thing about "fags and mags" is that
they are bait for creatures of habit.
I was a senior relief manager for Martins The Newsagent for nine years, and
sales for newspapers and periodicals varied surprisingly little from issue
to issue. That's why I could go to a different shop each fortnight and still
do a reasonable job of running it - the variables within the branch hardly
varied.
What does perk up periodicals' sales is "the new", which is why so many
publications come in a blaze of glory and then decline, often to be absorbed
into a sister publication.
It's what happened to the British comics industry through the 'sixties.
They didn't stay sharp enough to keep the good stuff coming and so
eventually lost the battle for kids buying power that now goes to
TV-promoted crap like Power Rangers, Yu Gi Oh and an endless stream of stage
school graduate kid bands.
Viz (and some of its better knock-off imitators) has been a notable
exception, and the 2001 and DC Thompson lines are doing a lot to employ and
bring on new talent, but there's still a big vacancy for a publication that
respects young people's intelligence as well as giving them *real* news
about what the popsters and soapsters are about rather than just pandering
to, and printing, their promotional offices' output.
I have a fairly big publishing project in hand just at the moment, but next
year's looking clear.
;-)
Brian Watson
> I've often wondered why so little
> attention is paid to the Sunday papers like the News Of The World and
Sunday
> Sport. They are composed of very little else but written pornography and
yet
> even at the height of Mary Whitehouse's activity and the "Festival of
Light"
> it was impossible to draw her/their attention to them.
Because she was almost exclusively interested in the media that were part of
her world. I fundamentally objected to virtually everything she stood for,
apart from her right to express it.
The News of the World has always been a case of "Ooh look, dear, what
terrible stuff in this newspaper, and look more terrible stuff on this page
too, I wonder where they find all this terrible stuff (thinks: thank God
it's not about me)."
The Sport has, since its inception, been nothing more or less than a comic
for slightly post-adolescent men. Deeply silly, and deeply inoffensive to
its target reader.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."
Lew Stringer
Watson at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 5/6/2002 9:38 AM:
>
> "Lew Stringer" <Lew.St...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:B922D0DB.C22F%Lew.St...@btopenworld.com...
>
>> One of our local newsagents gets DC comics very, very occassionally, about
> 3
>> years out of date, and out of sequence, with a huge unremovable UK bar
> code
>> sticker bearing something like: "Special price 99p". Unsolds from
>> Titan/Diamond perhaps?
>
> Either that or someone buys them from Titan/Diamond and repackages them.
>
> Have you seen them arriving recently, as I know one distributor at least
> cleared out their remaining stocks that way when the exclusivity deal was
> done?
The ones in the shop may have been there several months. I haven't looked
that closely. The manager is the head of the local Newsagent's Federation,
so I'll ask him about it. (Mind you; as newsagents get their info via the
often erroneus Retail Newsagent and CTN mags, God knows what he'll say).
Can't argue with any of that, Brian! Sounds like you know your stuff. I was
having a pint with the editor of The Beano over the weekend (name
dropper,eh?;)) and it was obvious that creatively, they're doing as much as
they can, but there's always been resistance to change and new ideas from
senior management. When IPC launched 2000 AD, many of the "old guard"
actually wanted it to fail, because its success would prove how dated their
comics were. Thankfully, originality prospered, and 25 years later, 2000 AD
is still with us, and sadly the lumbering giants like Tiger and Lion, which
didn't adapt with the times, have long gone.
Brian Watson
> in article 1023269003.18419....@news.demon.co.uk, Brian
> Watson at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 5/6/2002 9:38 AM:
>
> Sounds like you know your stuff.
I'm not in the business as a newsagent anymore, but I grew up reading Eagle
and the American imports and other comics and have never quite got around to
stopping buying them...
> I was
> having a pint with the editor of The Beano over the weekend (name
> dropper,eh?;)) and it was obvious that creatively, they're doing as much
as
> they can, but there's always been resistance to change and new ideas from
> senior management. When IPC launched 2000 AD, many of the "old guard"
> actually wanted it to fail, because its success would prove how dated
their
> comics were.
Yeah, I had a similar conversation with a bloke who had been a board member
at IPC and then retired to set up a small gift card company as something to
do just before his retirement.
He was a nice bloke to do business with, but I could feel myself ready to
give him a "slightly different point of view" when he said he felt IPC had
gone to the dogs with 200AD and that was when he decided to leave!
Point was - he'd left IPC and 2000AD was going like a train.
:-)
> Thankfully, originality prospered, and 25 years later, 2000 AD
> is still with us, and sadly the lumbering giants like Tiger and Lion,
which
> didn't adapt with the times, have long gone.
Lion went in with Eagle (or vice versa) and Tiger may have been absorbed
about the same time.
--
Brian
"When all about you is crumbling, when the arse is falling out of your
world, you need to focus on something positive in your life. Something you
can control, improve even."
Lew Stringer
Watson at br...@spheroid.demon.co.uk wrote on 5/6/2002 7:04 PM:
> Lion went in with Eagle (or vice versa) and Tiger may have been absorbed
> about the same time.
Eagle merged into Lion in 1969 as a result of the newly formed IPC
streamlining their comics. (Smash!, which came over from Odhams, was also
radically changed at that time from a good mix of humour,adventure,and
Marvel reprint into a standard boy's adventure weekly. A few good strips,
but on the whole much duller than it was). Both Lion and Smash merged into
Valiant comic in the early 1970's. Tiger lasted much longer, into the
mid-1980's, when it merged into the revived Eagle. Then the new Eagle
whithered and died a few years after. (With no other boys comics for it to
merge into!)