Number 6 *IS* John Drake
Dewey
again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
--
"I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
Moor Larkin
Dewey
b5bb-7dc...@d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> Shouldn't that be WAS..... :-)))))
>
Good point.
Number 6 *WAS* John Drake!
Moor Larkin
retired and gradually corrupted himeslf into Nelson Brenner.....
OR
John Drake became David Jones who was taken prisoner by cold-war
forces, became Number Six but then escaped and was so disenchanted
with the whole great game that he became Nelson Brenner.....
I can never quite decide which is best.
Dewey
4c75-8ba8-d...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:
Drake > 6 > Jones > The Colonel > 6 > Brenner.
You need to get the chronology right. Although I always have trouble
placing Jones just right.
Moor Larkin
> You need to get the chronology right. Although I always have trouble
> placing Jones just right.
The Colonel was a secret agent too?
That would explain the haircut..... *sees the light*
Dewey
news:1f6d1187-059e-4c8a...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:
> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
> Peter Smith?
>
Do you think a secret agent would rent an apartment using his real name?
Dewey
news:hcGdnZKju6lW_ybX...@bt.com:
> Dewey wrote:
>> AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:1f6d1187-059e-4c8a-aac0-
8b1ac9...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com
>> :
>>
>>> On Sep 22, 3:49 pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B
>>>> and C again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>>>
>>>> - Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>>> Peter Smith?
>>>
>>
>> Do you think a secret agent would rent an apartment using his real
>> name?
>>
>
> Who said 6 was a secret agent?
>
>
No really. If you're going to take that position then it's clear to me
who the real troll is here. Don't be stupid. Or be stupid and I can
always plonk you when you jump the shark.
The Doctor
Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>news:1f6d1187-059e-4c8a...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Sep 22, 3:49�pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B
>>> and C again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>>
>>> --
>>> "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>>
>>> �- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>
>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>> Peter Smith?
>>
>
>Do you think a secret agent would rent an apartment using his real name?
>
Esp. when the government is after 'information'.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Never Satan President Republic!
For the latest World News go to http://www.cuttingedge.org/
The Doctor
Dewey
> I'm serious. It is implied he was a secret agent but it was never
> said. Some speculate he may have been a scientist working for the
> government or a high ranking cabinet member. It is open to
> speculation. If you can you find anything in the episodes that says he
> was a secret agent I will bow to your higher knowledge because you may
> have watched it more recently.
>
Frankly, whether 6 was Drake or not is far more open to speculation than
6's profession. The fact that he is sent on a mission in Don't Forsake
Me borders on absolute proof. The dream scenes in AB and C bear it out
too. The conversation he has with Nadia in Big Ben also bear this out as
does the final scene with Fotheringay. The scenes with Cargill in Many
Happy are incongruent with the notion that 6 is a scientist. This
episode and the ending to Fall Out are both incongruent with 6 being a
cabinet minister. And there is the evidence from DotD, Schizoid Man and
Change of Mind that have been cited recently by others.
Ignis Fatuus
<alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sep 22, 3:49�pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>Peter Smith?
A name he makes up on the spot when he finds a new tenant in his house
during his first 'return' home in Many Happy Returns.
When he returns again (Do Not Forsake Me... in Nigel Stock's body),
he's known as Duvall, Schmidt, and ZM73. His Fiance is Janet Portland,
daughter of his boss, Sir Charles.
In the same episode He collects some photographs from a firm called
World Cameras - Drake's 'cover' was World Travel. He leaves in his
Lotus 7 to return home; and the 'stock' footage shows McGoohan - not
Stock - driving the car (although Stock is seen getting out of it).
Dewey
> The Doctor wrote:
>> In article <Xns9C9053A5F575de...@130.133.1.4>,
>> Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>>> news:1f6d1187-059e-4c8a-aac0-
8b1ac9...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.co
>>> m:
>>>
>>>> On Sep 22, 3:49 pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B
>>>>> and C again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>>>>
>>>>> - Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>>>> Peter Smith?
>>>>
>>> Do you think a secret agent would rent an apartment using his real
>>> name?
>>>
>>
>> Esp. when the government is after 'information'.
>
> He didn't know they wanted information until after he was abducted and
> you are assuming it was the government who held him captive! Have you
> really watched it, mister "13 episodes"?
>
Good Lord. The ending to Chimes alone is proof that the government is at
least complicity in holding him. As is Many Happy Returns where his old
bosses sell him out to the Village.
Honestly, do you even watch the show? I don't know much about the people
posting here but The Doctor at least makes reasonable points based on
actual footage from the actual show. Your arguments sound like you've
never watched the damn thing.
Dewey
news:b7nmb59p0cq0m7l6p...@4ax.com:
Well, this last about McGoohan driving the car has to be dismissed as a
budgetary constraint I would think.
Ignis Fatuus
<alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm serious. It is implied he was a secret agent but it was never said.
>Some speculate he may have been a scientist working for the government
>or a high ranking cabinet member. It is open to speculation. If you can
>you find anything in the episodes that says he was a secret agent I will
>bow to your higher knowledge because you may have watched it more recently.
>
It's not open to speculation; it's made clear in discussions with his
superiors, former colleagues, and former opponents, in
The Chimes of Big Ben
A.B.and C.
Many Happy Returns
and most particularly
Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling (which reveals cover names and his
former designation ZM73, as well as picking up the threads of an old
case and introducing his fiancee as the daughter of his boss).
There are discussions of his work in other episodes.
The Doctor
The Doctor
In Many Happy Returns, the Boss SENDS him back to serve his sentence.
Ignis Fatuus
(The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <b7nmb59p0cq0m7l6p...@4ax.com>,
>Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:30:31 -0700 (PDT), AlanSailsbury
>><alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sep 22, 3:49�pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and C
>>>> again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>>>
>>>> �- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>>
>>>I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>>>Peter Smith?
>>
>>A name he makes up on the spot when he finds a new tenant in his house
>>during his first 'return' home in Many Happy Returns.
>>
>>When he returns again (Do Not Forsake Me... in Nigel Stock's body),
>>he's known as Duvall, Schmidt, and ZM73. His Fiance is Janet Portland,
>>daughter of his boss, Sir Charles.
>>
>>In the same episode He collects some photographs from a firm called
>>World Cameras - Drake's 'cover' was World Travel. He leaves in his
>>Lotus 7 to return home; and the 'stock' footage shows McGoohan - not
>>Stock - driving the car (although Stock is seen getting out of it).
>>
>
>In the end who does win?
The professor completes a triple mind transfer and escapes in Stock's
body; The Stock character dies in the Professor's body; Number Two is
left looking very silly; and Six gets the last laugh.
Moor Larkin
> Do you think a secret agent would rent an apartment using his real name?
I think you'll find John Drake only used an alias on active service
and then not all the time. Often he would go on a case of interntional
importance and quite happily tell everyone his name was John Drake. He
went to dinner with Hardy once and a fellow-diner asked about his
mother: *Lady Drake*, so everyone knew who he was.
I think the Redcat has a very good point about Many Happy Returns. I
would say it seems incontrovertible that Six is a secret agent, and
indeed McGoohan said as much, in more than one interview. He did also
remark once or twice that he didn't HAVE to have been, but I think
what McGoohan meant was that had the thing been written differently
Six could have been portrayed as a scientist or anyone else. However
that is somewhat of an academic point.
So far as the name Peter Smith is concerned, as redcat said, If you
watch the episode carefully there seems no reason that he is NOT using
his correct name. In Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling, the names are
all quoted by other secret agents or such-like and obviously concern
aliases. You might just as well say John Drake was NOT John Drake's
real name because many agents had called him by another name.....
Another way to consider this is..... If you watched The Prisoner and
never had seen Danger Man, or even heard of it......... Is there
anything that would make you say: "Aha!! I think Six's real name is
John Drake!!"....... ?? I think this may be one reason why McGoohan
later ruminated that he wished he'd just produced and directed and got
some other joe or Jim, to play the part of Six.
Dewey
If you watch the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his
name is anything in particular. Indeed, that was part of the point of
the whole thing. As for Drake, there is no evidence that he rented an
appartment using his real name just as it is unclear that the name on
the lease 6 is looking for is his own. Finally, and I admit I am not as
well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever actually
seen and named? Or is it possible that the character asking after her
simply assumes that this is her name? "John Drake" is awfully close to
"John Doe" just as "Peter Smith" sounds a lot like an anonym. I think
these names were deliberately chosen to muddy the waters.
roger
news:Xns9C905FCEDA929de...@130.133.1.4...
> If you watch the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his
> name is anything in particular. Indeed, that was part of the point of
> the whole thing.
The production company was indeed named Everyman ...
tedopon
> On Sep 22, 3:49 pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and C
> > again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>
> > "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>
> > - Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>
> Peter Smith?
I am not a number, I am a free man.
The Doctor
Soory, I meant at the end where the Village is abandonned.
The Doctor
Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
The Doctor
tedopon <mister...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 24, 6:30=A0am, AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 3:49=A0pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and =
>C
>> > again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>
>> > --
>> > "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>
>>
>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>> Peter Smith?
>
>I am not a number, I am a free man.
LOL!
Ignis Fatuus
Leases don't include details of former tenants. Drake's purpose is
unclear, but it's more likely that he's looking for details of whoever
re-let his house.
> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever actually
>seen and named?
No. The 'dinner' with Hardy never took place; and Drake was an
American working for NATO in the first series. In subsequent series he
was an Irishman working for British Intelligence.
The only meal he took with a superior was with Hobbs in 'No Marks For
Servility' - when he was being set up to act as Butler to a
blackmailer who had rented a villa from friends of Hobbs - Sir Charles
and Lady Caroline Fielding. Drake cooked the crepes, and ended up
doing a neat parody of John Steed.
Moor Larkin
the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his name is
anything in particular.
Thank God you answered your own question then.
Now I can go back to sleep...... :-))))))
Dewey
news:D46dnbLlIdNB7ibX...@brightview.co.uk:
Interesting point.
Dewey
news:ca0d958f-ee4a-4e40...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
> So now you're saying even John Drake wasn't his real name? Too much
> for me. Where's the TARDIS? Lol.
>
I am not saying that. I am saying it is a possibility that, to the best of
my limited knowledge, is not precluded by anything actually seen in the
series.
Dewey
news:h9fsvf$9ke$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca:
Yes. Especially in AB and C in the dream sequence where 6 is dressed
identically to typical Drake and even says "be seeing you" as Drake did.
Yes, yes, everyone in the Village says "be seeing you" but perhaps that
is part of the plan to break him?
Dewey
> The Doctor wrote:
>> In article
>> <d403b343-d533-400c...@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>> Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
>
> I don't know if you've noticed, but it's the same actor.
>
And yet, Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (the monster) and his Baron von
Frankstein, had no mannerisms in common that I can see. Perhaps PMG was
simply a very poor actor who played the same character over and over
like Patrick Swayze.
roger
>> The production company was indeed named Everyman ...
>
> Interesting point.
I was merely hoping to draw attention to the fact that the job and name of
the character played by Patrick McGoohan in The Prisoner is pretty
irrelevant, which is why I don't understand why so many are getting so
heatedly exercised about it.
It's what the character represents in the series that is important.
Nod
news:IN6dnYkyEbeS-ibX...@bt.com...
|
| I'm serious. It is implied he was a secret agent but it was never said.
| Some speculate he may have been a scientist working for the government
| or a high ranking cabinet member. It is open to speculation. If you can
| you find anything in the episodes that says he was a secret agent I will
| bow to your higher knowledge because you may have watched it more
recently.
|
I've never seen it mentioned that he was a secret agent. Most folk just
assume that. He could easily be a cabinet minister, or scientist with the
famous "INFORMATION".
Nod
--
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?username=Nod
Nod
news:tqqmb5p3f2cgaebqk...@4ax.com...
| Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling (which reveals cover names and his
| former designation ZM73, as well as picking up the threads of an old
| case and introducing his fiancee as the daughter of his boss).
|
Very true. I remember now.
Nod
Ignis Fatuus
>Alan Sailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>news:Wa2dnS8q3b6H4SbX...@bt.com:
>
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <d403b343-d533-400c...@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>>
>>> Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
>>
>> I don't know if you've noticed, but it's the same actor.
>>
>And yet, Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (the monster) and his Baron von
>Frankstein, had no mannerisms in common that I can see.
Perhaps because the Baron was played by Colin Clive; and his son by
Basil Rathbone in the third movie - which featured Bela Lugosi
(Dracula) as Ygor.
Dewey
> On 24 Sep 2009 14:14:55 GMT, Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Alan Sailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:Wa2dnS8q3b6H4SbX...@bt.com:
>>
>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <d403b343-d533-400c-adb0-df32d0513fd0
@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
>>>
>>> I don't know if you've noticed, but it's the same actor.
>>>
>>And yet, Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (the monster) and his Baron von
>>Frankstein, had no mannerisms in common that I can see.
>
> Perhaps because the Baron was played by Colin Clive; and his son by
> Basil Rathbone in the third movie - which featured Bela Lugosi
> (Dracula) as Ygor.
>
No, no, no. I'm comparing the original role as the monster to his
performance as Baron von Frankenstein some 20 years later.
Ignis Fatuus
Frankenstein 1970? You really must be at a loose end.
Dewey
I think you are missing the point. The previous poster indicated that
the reason why Drake and 6 have similar mannerism is only because they
were played by the same actor. My point is that the same actor can play
different roles with entirely different mannerism therefore the similar
between Drake and 6 goes far beyond simply being that they were both
played by McGoohan.
Ignis Fatuus
No; I was just being a little facetious. I've made the same point in
respect of Regan and Morse. But if you look at Danger Man - and indeed
The Prisoner - you can see McGoohan create different personalities to
suit cover stories. If he'd wanted to I think he could have made
distinctive personalities of Drake and Six.
Similarly the two characters could have been written to reflect
different personalities - like Regan and Morse. Leaving McGoohan
aside, Drake and Six have too much in common to support the view that
they were conceived as different characters.
Dewey
Legend11
Well that's how I always took it...quite literally 'every man'. As in 6
could be you, I or the chap next door.
Am I wrong? :/
--
Legend11.
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence" - Leonard
'Bones' McCoy, Star Trek (2009).
--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 13 of my spam emails to date.
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The Doctor
Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"roger" <roadN...@prizSPAM.biz> wrote in
>news:D46dnbLlIdNB7ibX...@brightview.co.uk:
>
>> "Dewey" <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C905FCEDA929de...@130.133.1.4...
>>
>>> If you watch the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his
>>> name is anything in particular. Indeed, that was part of the point of
>>> the whole thing.
>>
>> The production company was indeed named Everyman ...
>>
>>
>
>Interesting point.
>
Who was the owner?
The Doctor
Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>AlanSailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>news:ca0d958f-ee4a-4e40...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>> So now you're saying even John Drake wasn't his real name? Too much
>> for me. Where's the TARDIS? Lol.
>>
>I am not saying that. I am saying it is a possibility that, to the best of
>my limited knowledge, is not precluded by anything actually seen in the
>series.
>
Robert Smith was a pseudonym.
The Doctor
The Doctor
The Doctor
Legend11 <Slith...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>roger wrote:
>> "Dewey" <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C905FCEDA929de...@130.133.1.4...
>>
>>> If you watch the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his
>>> name is anything in particular. Indeed, that was part of the point of
>>> the whole thing.
>>
>> The production company was indeed named Everyman ...
>>
>>
>
>Well that's how I always took it...quite literally 'every man'. As in 6
>could be you, I or the chap next door.
>
>Am I wrong? :/
>
Mixed up as always Slitheen.
John W Kennedy
> Finally, and I admit I am not as
> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever actually
> simply assumes that this is her name?
You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my name is
Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor Kennedy"?
Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
--
John W. Kennedy
"Information is light. Information, in itself, about anything, is light."
-- Tom Stoppard. "Night and Day"
redcat
> Dewey wrote:
>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever actually
>> seen and named? Or is it possible that the character asking after her
>> simply assumes that this is her name?
>
> You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my name is
> Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor Kennedy"?
>
> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>
Isn't the title Lady usually used with a woman's Christian name?
Ignis Fatuus
<jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Dewey wrote:
>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever actually
>> seen and named? Or is it possible that the character asking after her
>> simply assumes that this is her name?
>
>You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my name is
>Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor Kennedy"?
>
Or even Jacqueline Lee Bouvier Kennedy Onassis .
Ignis Fatuus
(The Doctor) wrote:
>In article <81597dbd-99e9-450d...@n2g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>tedopon <mister...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sep 24, 6:30=A0am, AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sep 22, 3:49=A0pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and =
>>C
>>> > again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>>
>>> > --
>>> > "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>>
>>> > =A0- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>>
>>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>>> Peter Smith?
>>
>>I am not a number, I am a free man.
>
>LOL!
Isn't this where we came in?
Dewey
news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
> Dewey wrote:
>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever
>> actually seen and named? Or is it possible that the character asking
>> after her simply assumes that this is her name?
>
> You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my name
> is Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor
> Kennedy"?
>
> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>
Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
--
"I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
The Doctor
Dewey
> Dewey wrote:
>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>> Dewey wrote:
>>>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>>>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever
>>>> actually seen and named? Or is it possible that the character
>>>> asking after her simply assumes that this is her name?
>>> You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my
>>> name is Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor
>>> Kennedy"?
>>>
>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
>>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither
>>> "Lord" nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility,
>>> that his mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>>
>>
>> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>>
>
> Only if she was a dog.
>
>
Ladybird Johnson might be offended. Or Lady Gaga. Wait! She is a dog.
redcat
Mrs. Johnson's name was Claudia.
Dewey
news:4YCdnU8e7OvPeyHX...@earthlink.com:
So maybe "Lady Drake" is really "Cladia Drake"?
Lady Gaga is still a dog.
The Doctor
Stripping Gaga the GErmanatti? She is another Brittany Spears.
Rick Davy
> >>
> >>
> >> Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
> >
> > I don't know if you've noticed, but it's the same actor.
> >
> And yet, Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (the monster) and his Baron von
> simply a very poor actor who played the same character over and over
> like Patrick Swayze.
>
There are exceptions but a LOT of PMcG's performances are very similar.
Rick
Rick Davy
"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:h9gngo$v0$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <Xns9C90677DA8F7Ade...@130.133.1.4>,
> Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"roger" <roadN...@prizSPAM.biz> wrote in
> >news:D46dnbLlIdNB7ibX...@brightview.co.uk:
> >
> >> "Dewey" <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:Xns9C905FCEDA929de...@130.133.1.4...
> >>
> >>> If you watch the entire series, you cannot possibly conclude that his
> >>> name is anything in particular. Indeed, that was part of the point of
> >>> the whole thing.
> >>
> >> The production company was indeed named Everyman ...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Interesting point.
> >
>
> Who was the owner?
> --
PMcG & David Tomblin (and I think at one point Terence Feely).
Rick
Rick Davy
"Nod" <N...@Deathbadger.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gDMum.150356$gY4.1...@newsfe08.ams2...
> "Alan Sailsbury" <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:IN6dnYkyEbeS-ibX...@bt.com...
> |
> | I'm serious. It is implied he was a secret agent but it was never said.
> | Some speculate he may have been a scientist working for the government
> | or a high ranking cabinet member. It is open to speculation. If you can
> | you find anything in the episodes that says he was a secret agent I will
> | bow to your higher knowledge because you may have watched it more
> recently.
> |
>
> I've never seen it mentioned that he was a secret agent. Most folk just
> assume that. He could easily be a cabinet minister, or scientist with the
> famous "INFORMATION".
>
> Nod
>
"He's a very good spy from a long line of spies" - Number Two - The General.
Rick
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk - Prisoner & Portmeirion News
Hulahoop
> On Sep 22, 3:49 pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and C
> > again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>
> > "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>
> > - Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>
> Peter Smith?
I have been watching this debate go on for a few days now and wonder
if there is sufficient ambiguity such that some statements from those
involved in the production back up one view while other statements
from other people contradict it
Maybe this could be analagous to the Unit Years, when were they? The
seventies, or was it the eighties
Regards
Ged
Ignis Fatuus
<sween...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 24, 9:30�pm, AlanSailsbury <alansailsb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sep 22, 3:49�pm, Dewey <dewey3kNOS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Just thought I'd stir up some trouble. But honestly, watching A, B and C
>> > again, it's hard to see how 6 was not intended to be Drake.
>>
>> > --
>> > "I talked to God about that and he was like, 'No.'"
>>
>> > �- Joe The Plumber, hearing the voices
>>
>> I thought we heard it was established in one episode he was named
>> Peter Smith?
>
>I have been watching this debate go on for a few days now and wonder
>if there is sufficient ambiguity such that some statements from those
>involved in the production back up one view while other statements
>from other people contradict it
>
McGoohan says Not. Everyone else says Drake.
If he wasn't Drake then he was cloned from Drake.
>Maybe this could be analagous to the Unit Years, when were they? The
>seventies, or was it the eighties
>
The sixties.
The Doctor
John W Kennedy
It depends on why she is entitled to be called "Lady". The wife of Sir
John Smith is Lady Smith. The wife of Lord Peter Wimsey (the younger son
of the Duke of Denver) is Lady Peter. Lord Peter's sister is Lady Mary.
The wife of the Earl of Tolloler is Lady Tolloler.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and
Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes.
The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being
corrected."
-- G. K. Chesterton
John W Kennedy
>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>
>
> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
of the 20th century.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich
have always objected to being governed at all."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Man Who Was Thursday"
The Doctor
John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Dewey wrote:
>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
>>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
>>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
>>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>>
>>
>> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>
>My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
>believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
>of the 20th century.
>
A very noble person no doubt.
redcat
> redcat wrote:
>> John W Kennedy wrote:
>>> Dewey wrote:
>>>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>>>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever
>>>> actually
>>>> seen and named? Or is it possible that the character asking after her
>>>> simply assumes that this is her name?
>>>
>>> You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my name
>>> is Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend Doctor Kennedy"?
>>>
>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
>>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither
>>> "Lord" nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility,
>>> that his mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>>
>>
>> Isn't the title Lady usually used with a woman's Christian name?
>
> It depends on why she is entitled to be called "Lady". The wife of Sir
> John Smith is Lady Smith. The wife of Lord Peter Wimsey (the younger son
> of the Duke of Denver) is Lady Peter. Lord Peter's sister is Lady Mary.
> The wife of the Earl of Tolloler is Lady Tolloler.
>
Yes, I see, mostly. The John Smith and Peter Wimsey examples are a bit
confusing, though (one wife is Lady Surname, the other is Lady Christian
name).
redcat
> Dewey wrote:
>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
>>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
>>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
>>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>>
>>
>> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>
> My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
> believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
> of the 20th century.
>
which she was known by no other first name, I found out it was actually
her nickname. Perhaps it was a fashionable name at some point, long ago.
John W Kennedy
One is the wife of a knight, and the other is the wife of the younger
son of a duke. Different rules.
--
John W. Kennedy
John W Kennedy
> In article <4abda258$0$4976$607e...@cv.net>,
> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> Dewey wrote:
>>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in
>>> news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
>>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
>>>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
>>>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
>>>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>>>>
>>> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>> My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
>> believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
>> of the 20th century.
>>
>
> A very noble person no doubt.
Not in the technical sense. Her mother had been an uneducated non-white
(it was almost forty years ago that I heard the story, so I don't
remember the details) who thought it sounded cool.
--
John W. Kennedy
"...when you're trying to build a house of cards, the last thing you
should do is blow hard and wave your hands like a madman."
-- Rupert Goodwins
redcat
Got it! TY
Mr.Smartypants
> In article <4abda258$0$4976$607ed...@cv.net>,> >> John W Kennedy <jwke...@attglobal.net> wrote in
> >>news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
> >>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
> >>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
> >>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
> >>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>
> >> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>
> >My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
> >believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
> >of the 20th century.
>
> A very noble person no doubt.
> --
With that reasoning your parents should have named you Twat.
"The Great One"
"Mr.Smartypants" <bunghol...@lycos.com> wrote in message news:3cf94c90-8a2c-40cf...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
With that reasoning your parents should have named you Miss Penis Breath, Sissy-Pants !!
--
John C.
Mr.Smartypants
wrote:
> "Mr.Smartypants" <bunghole-jon...@lycos.com> wrote in messagenews:3cf94c90-8a2c-40cf...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
John, I realize that being stuck in the closet with absolutely NO ONE
to share with is rather difficult for you but do you *have* to share
your homosexuality with us?
Couldn't you share with Yads through e-mail?
"The Great One"
wrote:
> "Mr.Smartypants" <bunghole-jon...@lycos.com> wrote in messagenews:3cf94c90-8a2c-40cf...@f18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Sep 26, 5:56 am, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>
> > In article <4abda258$0$4976$607ed...@cv.net>,
> > John W Kennedy <jwke...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > >Dewey wrote:
> > >> John W Kennedy <jwke...@attglobal.net> wrote in
> > >>news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
> > >>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is the
> > >>> wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is neither "Lord"
> > >>> nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote possibility, that his
> > >>> mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/ "Drake".)
>
> > >> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>
> > >My stepmother actually knew a woman named "Lady", in fact, but I don't
> > >believe the name was found among British Anglo-Saxons in the first half
> > >of the 20th century.
>
> > A very noble person no doubt.
> > --
>
> With that reasoning your parents should have named you Twat.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> With that reasoning your parents should have named you Miss Penis Breath, Sissy-Pants !!
> --
> John C.-
John, I realized that I was Gay at twelve years old. Oh how my mother cried!
--
Miss Sissy-Panties
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That was a SAD story.......why didn't you decide to change your sex then instead of now ??
--
John C.
Dewey
news:h9jc3v$jdd$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca:
> In article <Xns9C91725EB1CD2de...@130.133.1.4>,
> Dewey <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Alan Sailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:9P6dnY0QXfBdQSHX...@bt.com:
>>
>>> Dewey wrote:
>>>> John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote in
>>>> news:4abc195e$0$22522$607e...@cv.net:
>>>>
>>>>> Dewey wrote:
>>>>>> Finally, and I admit I am not as
>>>>>> well versed in DM as others, is the character "Lady Drake" ever
>>>>>> actually seen and named? Or is it possible that the character
>>>>>> asking after her simply assumes that this is her name?
>>>>> You mean the same way that people simply assume that, because my
>>>>> name is Kennedy, my mother's name must be "The Very Reverend
>>>>> Doctor Kennedy"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Drake's mother can be referred to as "Lady Drake" only if she is
>>>>> the wife or widow of a Baronet or Knight. (Drake himself is
>>>>> neither "Lord" nor "Honorable", which excludes one other remote
>>>>> possibility, that his mother is both /named/ "Drake" and /titled/
>>>>> "Drake".)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or perhaps her first name is "Lady"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only if she was a dog.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ladybird Johnson might be offended. Or Lady Gaga. Wait! She is a dog.
>>
>
> Stripping Gaga the GErmanatti? She is another Brittany Spears.
She sings better than Brit (Stef actually can sing, Brit cannot) but
Brit is cute - or at least was - Stef is hard to look at.
"Interviewers want to call me Stephanie. It's insulting. They just don't
understand the real me." - Lady Gaga on why she does like doing
interviews. Apparently the fact that she takes writing credits as
"Stephanie Germanotti" does not mean that anyone can actually call her
"Stephanie".
Dewey
news:4rSdnSvG07a52iDX...@bt.com:
>
> "Dewey" <dewey3...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C90684A45BF8de...@130.133.1.4...
>> Alan Sailsbury <alansa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:Wa2dnS8q3b6H4SbX...@bt.com:
>>
>> > The Doctor wrote:
>> >> In article
>> >> <d403b343-d533-400c-adb0-df32d0513fd0
@y20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>
>> >> ,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mannerisms between John Drake and Number 6 are the same.
>> >
>> > I don't know if you've noticed, but it's the same actor.
>> >
>> And yet, Boris Karloff's Frankenstein (the monster) and his Baron von
>> Frankstein, had no mannerisms in common that I can see. Perhaps PMG
>> was simply a very poor actor who played the same character over and
>> over like Patrick Swayze.
>>
>
> There are exceptions but a LOT of PMcG's performances are very
> similar.
>
Only the ones that are supposed to be.
Moor Larkin
I've made the same point in respect of Regan and Morse. But if you
look at Danger Man - and indeed The Prisoner - you can see McGoohan
create different personalities to suit cover stories. If he'd wanted
to I think he could have made distinctive personalities of Drake and
Six.
They were *distinct*.. Drake was a fastidious, calm, caring kinda guy
who often sublimated himself to his superiors. Six was a bloody-minded
guy obsessed with getting out of the village, or blowing it up....He
sorta did both.
On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
Similarly the two characters could have been written to reflect
different personalities - like Regan and Morse. Leaving McGoohan
aside, Drake and Six have too much in common to support the view that
they were conceived as different characters
Regan and Morse were separated by ten years in *real* time for the
actor.
Drake and Six by about ten weeks.
Regan was a hard-drinking womanising thug. Morse was a womanising,
hard-drinking quiet person who liked opera..... or maybe he was just
Regan older and wiser.
Drake and Six were both secret agents who were social drinkers but not
womanisers, but Drake rarely lost his temper and Six rarely found it.
I've no idea what this everyman business is all about. What's the name
of the company got to do with it? If Granada had made the show, would
that mean Portmeirion was really based on the Alhambra?
Ignis Fatuus
<moorl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>I've made the same point in respect of Regan and Morse. But if you
>look at Danger Man - and indeed The Prisoner - you can see McGoohan
>create different personalities to suit cover stories. If he'd wanted
>to I think he could have made distinctive personalities of Drake and
>Six.
>
>
>They were *distinct*.. Drake was a fastidious, calm, caring kinda guy
>who often sublimated himself to his superiors. Six was a bloody-minded
>guy obsessed with getting out of the village, or blowing it up....He
>sorta did both.
>
Number Two etc. weren't Six's 'superiors'. He wasn't 'bloody minded'
with The Colonel et. on the occasions when he 'left' the Village (The
Chimes of Big Ben, Many Happy Returns, Do Not Forsake Me Oh My
Darling).
Drake managed to 'let-rip' with the opposition in virtually every
episode - like Six with the village authorities.
Six and Drake were both confrontational with their superiors when it
came to questioning the morality of their tasks.
>
>On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>Similarly the two characters could have been written to reflect
>different personalities - like Regan and Morse. Leaving McGoohan
>aside, Drake and Six have too much in common to support the view that
>they were conceived as different characters
>
>
>
>Regan and Morse were separated by ten years in *real* time for the
>actor.
>Drake and Six by about ten weeks.
>
Meaning what? If McGoohan had given himself time for mature reflection
before launching into The Prisoner he might have developed an
alternative persona for Six. Nobody forced him to abandon Danger Man
to pursue the project. If he was so unhappy with DM perhaps he
shouldn't have signed up for a fourth season - he'd already filmed two
episodes before he resigned.
McGoohan was an actor, not a writer. He devised The Prisoner around
his Danger Man experiences, and recruited Markstein and Tomblin from
Danger Man to help him develop the project. The at least saw it as an
extension of DM - and the end-product has all the appearance of the
same character in a different setting.
In view of the success of both shows I really can't understand your
problem with that.
>Regan was a hard-drinking womanising thug. Morse was a womanising,
>hard-drinking quiet person who liked opera..... or maybe he was just
>Regan older and wiser.
Regan wasn't a womaniser - he was married and then divorced. Morse was
a bachelor who had very little success with personal relationships.
Morse was an Oxford graduate - Regan a Manchester cop promoted from
the beat. Morse was a problem solver who abhorred violence; Regan a
'tough-guy' enforcer. Apart from their rank, they couldn't be more
different.
>
>Drake and Six were both secret agents who were social drinkers but not
>womanisers, but Drake rarely lost his temper and Six rarely found it.
>
Drake and Six both lost their tempers when it suited them to do so -
and showed exceptional self-control on other occasions- see Hammer
Into Anvil (Prisoner) - and Don't Nail Him Yet (Danger Man).
>I've no idea what this everyman business is all about. What's the name
>of the company got to do with it? If Granada had made the show, would
>that mean Portmeirion was really based on the Alhambra?
I didn't make the comment.
Moor Larkin
Number Two etc. weren't Six's 'superiors'. He wasn't 'bloody minded'
with The Colonel et. on the occasions when he 'left' the Village (The
Chimes of Big Ben, Many Happy Returns, Do Not Forsake Me Oh My
Darling).
They were Number Two, he was Number Six...... You can't argue with
numbers.... :-))))
Let's face it the only thing Number Six had to do was tell them why he
had resigned. Given that the series gradually reveals there was no
especial reason, why keep himself imprisoned simply on a *principle*
that he had a *right* to his own privacy. It may be an admirable
exercise in free will, but it is also bloody-minded. It is also an
allegory of course.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Drake managed to 'let-rip' with the opposition in virtually every episode - like Six with the village authorities.
Not so. In many episodes parallel lines often met.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Six and Drake were both confrontational with their superiors when it came to questioning the morality of their tasks.
Not really. In the first series he was quite amenable to authority. In
the second he occasionally huffed and puffed and pulled faces but he
never took anyone to any terrible task. And if he tried to, they
usually just ignored him.... :-))))))
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Meaning what? If McGoohan had given himself time for mature reflection before launching into The Prisoner he might have developed an alternative persona for Six.
I think, as I mentioned somewhere earlier, on mature reflection he
wished he's got another actor altogether to do it....
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
Nobody forced him to abandon Danger Man to pursue the project. If he
was so unhappy with DM perhaps he shouldn't have signed up for a
fourth season - he'd already filmed two episodes before he resigned.
I'm not so sure that is what happpened exactly. In one blog of mine I
point out that the demise of Danger Man (according to McGoohan himself
via an American newspaper quote) was largely due to CBS shilly-
shallying about renewing it, in 1965. I'm half-convinced that Koroshi/
Shinda Shima was primarily negotiated as part of Mcgoohan's deal with
Grade..... *Showing willing* we call it over here. Or at best a stop-
gap whilst Grade was persuaded.
The idea that Drake should no longer be a secret agent was replicated
in Man in a Suitcase so there was evidently a lot of zeitgeist going
on in ITC at the time.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> McGoohan was an actor, not a writer. He devised The Prisoner around his Danger Man experiences, and recruited Markstein and Tomblin from Danger Man to help him develop the project. The at least saw it as an extension of DM - and the end-product has all the appearance of the same character in a different setting.
McGoohan saw himself as a writer i think. hence he wrote....... :-)))
I don't think he *recruited* Tomblin. Tomblin seems to have been his
equal - his partner. Markstein certainly was recruited though.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> In view of the success of both shows I really can't understand your problem with that.
My objection is simply that McGoohan proclaimed in big writing, right
from the start that his new show was not about John Drake. Your
insistence that he *is* is based on just your opinion of an acting
style, which I donlt happen to fully agree with. I can certainly *see*
elements of John Drake in Six, but they were by no mean necessarily
the same person. There is no need for them to be. 'The Prisoner' does
not need John Drake to make it a perfectly rounded show all of its
own.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Regan wasn't a womaniser - he was married and then divorced. Morse was a bachelor who had very little success with personal relationships. Morse was an Oxford graduate - Regan a Manchester cop promoted from the beat. Morse was a problem solver who abhorred violence; Regan a 'tough-guy' enforcer. Apart from their rank, they couldn't be more different.
I used to see many mannerisms and facial expressions that were quite
similar and I could never forget that Morse was really Regan from The
Sweeney. Morse was a good decade older though, at least - maybe more.
I wonder how similar Sid Rafferty was to Six or John Drake.
> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Drake and Six both lost their tempers when it suited them to do so - and showed exceptional self-control on other occasions- see Hammer Into Anvil (Prisoner) - and Don't Nail Him Yet (Danger Man).
Two Secret Agents with iron self-control... What a turn-up for the
books huh?
Moor
Ignis Fatuus
<moorl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On 28 Sep, 19:25, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>Number Two etc. weren't Six's 'superiors'. He wasn't 'bloody minded'
>with The Colonel et. on the occasions when he 'left' the Village (The
>Chimes of Big Ben, Many Happy Returns, �Do Not Forsake Me Oh My
>Darling).
>
>They were Number Two, he was Number Six...... You can't argue with
>numbers.... :-))))
>
I wasn't. You raised the issue of his temper.
>Let's face it the only thing Number Six had to do was tell them why he
>had resigned. Given that the series gradually reveals there was no
>especial reason, why keep himself imprisoned simply on a *principle*
>that he had a *right* to his own privacy. It may be an admirable
>exercise in free will, but it is also bloody-minded. It is also an
>allegory of course.
>
>
> > >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Drake managed to 'let-rip' with the opposition in virtually every episode - like Six with the village authorities.
>
>Not so. In many episodes parallel lines often met.
>
In one. But the Russian agent wasn't the 'opposition' in That episode.
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Six and Drake were both confrontational with their superiors when it came to questioning the morality of their tasks.
>
>Not really. In the first series he was quite amenable to authority. In
>the second he occasionally huffed and puffed and pulled faces but he
>never took anyone to any terrible task. And if he tried to, they
>usually just ignored him.... :-))))))
>
Pretty much like Six then.
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Meaning what? If McGoohan had given himself time for mature reflection before launching into The Prisoner he might have developed an alternative persona for Six.
>
>I think, as I mentioned somewhere earlier, on mature reflection he
>wished he's got another actor altogether to do it....
>
He didn't. I'm commenting on the material supplied.
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>Nobody forced him to abandon Danger Man to pursue the project. If he
>was so unhappy with DM perhaps he shouldn't have signed up for a
>fourth season - he'd already filmed two episodes before he resigned.
>
>I'm not so sure that is what happpened exactly. In one blog of mine I
>point out that the demise of Danger Man (according to McGoohan himself
>via an American newspaper quote) was largely due to CBS shilly-
>shallying about renewing it, in 1965. I'm half-convinced that Koroshi/
>Shinda Shima was primarily negotiated as part of Mcgoohan's deal with
>Grade..... *Showing willing* we call it over here. Or at best a stop-
>gap whilst Grade was persuaded.
>
There's no arguing the fact that production had started on season four
when McGoohan resigned. There's no disputing the fact that Man In A
Suitcase was commissioned as a replacement. As this Was made the issue
of CBS seems irrelevant. Grade spent the budget regardless - without
the promise of overseas sales.
>The idea that Drake should no longer be a secret agent was replicated
>in Man in a Suitcase so there was evidently a lot of zeitgeist going
>on in ITC at the time.
>
It replaced DM.
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> McGoohan was an actor, not a writer. He devised The Prisoner around his Danger Man experiences, and recruited Markstein and Tomblin from Danger Man to help him develop the project. The at least saw it as an extension of DM - and the end-product has all the appearance of the same character in a different setting.
>
>
>McGoohan saw himself as a writer i think. hence he wrote....... :-)))
>
>I don't think he *recruited* Tomblin. Tomblin seems to have been his
>equal - his partner. Markstein certainly was recruited though.
>
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> In view of the success of both shows I really can't understand your problem with that.
>
>My objection is simply that McGoohan proclaimed in big writing, right
>from the start that his new show was not about John Drake. Your
>insistence that he *is* is based on just your opinion of an acting
>style, which I donlt happen to fully agree with. I can certainly *see*
>elements of John Drake in Six, but they were by no mean necessarily
>the same person. There is no need for them to be. 'The Prisoner' does
>not need John Drake to make it a perfectly rounded show all of its
>own.
>
Well you stick with that explanation if it suits you. There's no
'proof' either way - and it's easy enough to ignore the rest of the
evidence.
BTW please cite the earliest 'denial' - as I recall it being left
pretty ambiguous at the time.
>
> > >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Regan wasn't a womaniser - he was married and then divorced. Morse was a bachelor who had very little success with personal relationships. Morse was an Oxford graduate - Regan a Manchester cop promoted from the beat. Morse was a problem solver who abhorred violence; Regan a 'tough-guy' enforcer. Apart from their rank, they couldn't be more different.
>
>
>I used to see many mannerisms and facial expressions that were quite
>similar and I could never forget that Morse was really Regan from The
>Sweeney. Morse was a good decade older though, at least - maybe more.
>I wonder how similar Sid Rafferty was to Six or John Drake.
>
Probably quite different - but then He wasn't based on Drake.
>
>> >On 24 Sep, 18:45, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
>> Drake and Six both lost their tempers when it suited them to do so - and showed exceptional self-control on other occasions- see Hammer Into Anvil (Prisoner) - and Don't Nail Him Yet (Danger Man).
>
>Two Secret Agents with iron self-control... What a turn-up for the
>books huh?
You raised the point in the first place - and of course snipped it out
when it proved inconvenient. I'm afraid your habit of twisting a point
by taking quotes out of context doesn't help your argument or enhance
your credibility. Perhaps you'd better save the rest for a Blog.
Moor Larkin
> I wasn't. You raised the issue of his temper.
And you raised the issue of superiors versus opposition. It became
fairly clear that Six wasn't fighting opposition as early as the
second episode, probably the first, if you read the signs.
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> In one. But the Russian agent wasn't the 'opposition' in That episode.
Drake was friendly with his opposition quite frequently. he often ran
into a police chief or similar and finagled round the edges in order
to achive his goal with that guy. He was full of subtleties.
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Pretty much like Six then.
Heads you win. Tails I lose.......... :-))))))))
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
I'm commenting on the material supplied.
And you believe Drake is Six and that is not so except that you want
it to be that way.
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> There's no arguing the fact that production had started on season four when McGoohan resigned. There's no disputing the fact that Man In A Suitcase was commissioned as a replacement. As this Was made the issue of CBS seems irrelevant. Grade spent the budget regardless - without the promise of overseas sales.
You state old notions as fact. If Danger Man was commisioned where are
all the scripts. Why was Stanley Greenberg employed to write them all,
if they already had a big pile of them............. All they need to
do was write the word McGill where it said Drake.......
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Well you stick with that explanation if it suits you. There's no 'proof' either way - and it's easy enough to ignore the rest of the evidence.
There is clear proff that Mcgoohan said it wasn't......... right from
the beginning.
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> BTW please cite the earliest 'denial' - as I recall it being left pretty ambiguous at the time.
http://www.danger-man.co.uk/docs/magazines/tvtimes/Sept1967/pdf.pdf
Not the first but it was published as the prog was launched. If you
read the press releases on that website it is categorically stated in
those. So you can't fault McGoohan for trying to tell you....
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> Probably quite different - but then He wasn't based on Drake.
How do you know? Maybe he was...... Drake often impersonated
Doctors.... That's joke btw.... in case you can't spot them
On 28 Sep, 21:20, Ignis Fatuus <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote:
> You raised the point in the first place - and of course snipped it out
> when it proved inconvenient. I'm afraid your habit of twisting a point
> by taking quotes out of context doesn't help your argument or enhance
> your credibility. Perhaps you'd better save the rest for a Blog
This is Babylon in here mate. Credibility?... :-))))) What point did
I raise?.... :-))))))
The principal point here is that whilst you WANT Drake to be Six, he
wasn't intended to be and there is copious real-world evidence to
justify that statement.
Waffling ad-nauseum about what secret agents did or did not do in
fiction does your credibility no good either. You agreed earlier that
you quite accept that McGoohan did intend Six to be Drake. Make your
mind up.
Moor Larkin
Ignis Fatuus
<moorl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I think the word NOT dropped off........... :-))))))))))))
So did I.
john smith
"Ignis Fatuus" <Ig...@fatuusisland.com> wrote in message
news:90u1c5959t1uudguc...@4ax.com...
Maybe he devised it around an LSD experience?
scoville
>
> You raised the point in the first place - and of course snipped it out
> when it proved inconvenient. I'm afraid your habit of twisting a point
> by taking quotes out of context doesn't help your argument or enhance
> your credibility. Perhaps you'd better save the rest for a Blog.
LOL !
It didn't take Ignis long to figure out how Moor Larkin operates.
Here on alt.tv.prisoner we've had quite a bit of experience with this
character.
It's fruitless attempting to have a logical argument with him.
Point out the facts which disprove his theories and he ignores them.
Supply quotes from the cast and crew of The Prisoner and he accuses
them of lying.
Faced with the prospect of having no-one agreeing with him, he will
also invent "facts" in a desperate attempt to bolster his argument.
And with that in mind, I'd take anything written on his blog with a
rather large pinch of salt.
Scoville.
Moor Larkin
> And with that in mind, I'd take anything written on his blog with a rather large pinch of salt.
>
> Scoville.
Which bit in particular Scoldy? I'd be only too delighted to discuss
any of the newspaper and magazine quotes and scans and web-links I
furnish on there, and my conclusions from them.
I love to learn. Do you?
Bring it On........ :-)))))
http://numbersixwasinnocent.blogspot.com/
Ignis Fatuus
I wasn't planning to read any of them. I doubt he even understands the
significance of his persona.
Ignis Fatuus
<moorl...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>On 29 Sep, 15:54, scoville <scovi...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> And with that in mind, I'd take anything written on his blog with a rather large pinch of salt.
>>
>> Scoville.
>
>
>Which bit in particular Scoldy? I'd be only too delighted to discuss
>any of the newspaper and magazine quotes and scans and web-links I
>furnish on there, and my conclusions from them.
>
Well you've managed to avoid 'discussion' of any of the points I've
raised so far by snipping them out - so I imagine you've been as
liberal with the cuttings and interviews.
scoville
I have better things to do than to read the vaguely creepy blog of a
McGoohan obsessive.
Tell you what - why don't you discuss your conclusions on a newsgroup
instead ?
Oh wait - you already tried that.
Scoville.