Jake Gordon - PO5 Grandfather
Laura Parrella
X-mas episode on Lifetime where he said he was going blind and going for
chemo treatments. Was he ever on the show again? Have there been any
references to him?
goldb...@home.com
No one knows and it's never been brought up. I really liked that
episode, and enjoyed seeing it late last night and this morning.
He hasn't been on the show since, and I don't think he will be, at
least not played by Carol O'Conner. There hasn't been any references
either.
It's really a sad situation. Apparently he had some personal issues
with TBTB at Party of Five and since then has voiced negative opinions
about working with the show, and has basically said he will not work
with them again. It really sucks when the political stuff about TV
shows ends up hurting the story lines and the validity of stuff in the
show. I wish he would have made more appearances, and as I said stuff
like this end sup hurting the show overall. Also as I've said the show
is great and I love it, but it's lost touch with its past some. It
seems like nothing reflects on anything that has happened in the past
anymore. You could almost start watching this season, and understand
everything, because nothing from the past is brought up. But all hope
is not lost.
--
"There ain't no party like a Detroit party, cause a Detroit party won't
stop!" -Kid Rock
Cajo MacAvity
>
> What happened to the Salingers' grandfather?
The writers have not seen fit to tell us.
> I just saw him on a repeat
> X-mas episode on Lifetime where he said he was going blind and going for
> chemo treatments. Was he ever on the show again?
Nope.
> Have there been any references to him?
Infuriatingly enough, no -- unless he was mentioned in the Christmas
episode that I missed last week. I'd be pleased to be wrong on this
point, though. Anyone?
Cajo MacAvity
ms_cajo_...@my-dejanews.com
--
Do NOT let them deceive you with the legitimization of their myth.
Cajo MacAvity
>
<snippage> He hasn't been on the show since, and I don't think he will
be, at
> least not played by Carol O'Conner. There hasn't been any references
> either.
> It's really a sad situation. Apparently he had some personal issues
> with TBTB at Party of Five and since then has voiced negative opinions
> about working with the show, and has basically said he will not work
> with them again.
Ah yes, I remember you saying something about this before. How silly
that the actor's beefs seem to have determined the character's fate. If
they didn't want to bring back Jake, why not say that he died while
abord or something?
It's insulting that Jake overcomes huge obstacles makes a connection
with his grandchildren, is welcomed into the family by that Christmas,
announces his imminent death and leaves for treatment, and is *never*
mentioned again -- not even on a following Christmas. Feh.
David W. Tamkin
<ofRg2.2028$y_....@news20.bellglobal.com>:
| Ah yes, I remember you saying something about this before. How silly
| that the actor's beefs seem to have determined the character's fate. If
| they didn't want to bring back Jake, why not say that he died while
| abord or something?
Agreed ... or cast another actor. We've had two as Griffin and nine as Owen;
a second Jake shouldn't hurt that much.
Buck Naked
> What happened to the Salingers' grandfather? I just saw him on a repeat
> X-mas episode on Lifetime where he said he was going blind and going for
> chemo treatments. Was he ever on the show again? Have there been any
> references to him?
Not to my knowledge. And I find it very interesting that when Charlie came
down with Hodgkin's Disease, there was no mention of Jake's cancer
problem. I think they even said that Charlie had no family history of
anything like this (that they knew of). FAH!
--
____________________________________________________________
The Ferengi 33rd rule of acquisition: "It never hurts to suck up to the
boss."
goldb...@home.com
>
> goldb...@home.com wrote:
> >
> <snippage> He hasn't been on the show since, and I don't think he will
> be, at
> > least not played by Carol O'Conner. There hasn't been any references
> > either.
> > It's really a sad situation. Apparently he had some personal issues
> > with TBTB at Party of Five and since then has voiced negative opinions
> > about working with the show, and has basically said he will not work
> > with them again.
>
> that the actor's beefs seem to have determined the character's fate. If
> they didn't want to bring back Jake, why not say that he died while
> abord or something?
>
> with his grandchildren, is welcomed into the family by that Christmas,
> announces his imminent death and leaves for treatment, and is *never*
> mentioned again -- not even on a following Christmas. Feh.
>
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo_...@my-dejanews.com
> --
> Do NOT let them deceive you with the legitimization of their myth.
Remember that he had cancer, and all through the Charlie cancer story
line, not one word was mentioned. Now of course, only Charlie knew of
him having cancer, but you would have thought they could have at least
told us he died, instead of leaving it blank. Extremely irresponsible
of the writers. Claudia would have been asking about him and stuff
around Christmas.
Cajo MacAvity
>
<snip> Extremely irresponsible
> of the writers. Claudia would have been asking about him and stuff
> around Christmas.
You're so right. Claudia would have been all over the "Where's
Grandpa?" thing, especially since she was feeling so homesick and
alienated from her family. Feh.
Cajo MacAvity
ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
Buck Naked
> ms_cajo_macavity@*deletethis*my-dejanews.com wrote in
> <ofRg2.2028$y_....@news20.bellglobal.com>:
>
> | Ah yes, I remember you saying something about this before. How silly
> | that the actor's beefs seem to have determined the character's fate. If
> | they didn't want to bring back Jake, why not say that he died while
> | abord or something?
>
> Agreed ... or cast another actor. We've had two as Griffin and nine as Owen;
> a second Jake shouldn't hurt that much.
Okay, so who would you cast as the replacement for Jake Gordon?
I'll go out on a limb and say my choice would be Bill Smitrovich from "Life Goes
On", although he seems a little too young for the part, so my second choice
would be Pat Hingle, and my third choice would be Hal Linden.
Discuss.
Cajo MacAvity
>
> Okay, so who would you cast as the replacement for Jake Gordon?
>
> I'll go out on a limb and say my choice would be Bill Smitrovich from "Life Goes
> On", although he seems a little too young for the part, so my second choice
> would be Pat Hingle, and my third choice would be Hal Linden.
>
> Discuss.
I'm not familiar with Bill Smitrovich or his work, but Pat Hingle is
crotchety enough to step into Carroll O'Connor's shoes. Hal Linden is
extremely talented, but if he had the role he'd probably insist on
singing or playing the trumpet at some point <shudder>.
Might I add ANYONE BUT WILFRED BRIMLEY! Pardon my yelling, but if I see
his kindly old face playing the lovable but crusty old grandpa one more
time ...
--
Cajo MacAvity
ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
------------------------------------------------
Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness
than by any virtue in the woman.
-- Ninon De Lenclos
David W. Tamkin
| Okay, so who would you cast as the replacement for Jake Gordon?
Paul Dooley, just for the irony of it. He was in a summer replacement sitcom
a few years ago set in a retirement community as a fellow who would not ad-
just or get along. His cheery love-the-place neighbor was played by ...
... Alan Young (Jack Gordon from PoF's "Homework").
The reasons I didn't suggest Young's neighbor from _Mr._Ed_ are that (1) I
can't remember his name and (2) I'm very sure he's no longer alive.
Joyce Carlile
when Charlie was talking to Daphne's mother and trying to get her to
stay for Christmas, he said that "there hasn't been any parents or
grandparents around here for years?"
It seems the writers have forgotten or maybe just conveniently forget
that there was indeed a grandfather just recently.
Perhaps as one of you posted here the problems with Mr. O'Conner and the
writers are the reason.
goldb...@home.com
> You're so right. Claudia would have been all over the "Where's
> Grandpa?" thing, especially since she was feeling so homesick and
> alienated from her family. Feh.
>
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
> --
> Do NOT let them deceive you with the legitimization of their myth.
I also still don't understand how they could have no relatives
whatsoever. I know they mentioned having an uncle that lived in France,
but there had to have been someone else.
goldb...@home.com
This was frikin ridiculous! If I remember correctly he said, "There
hasn't been any parents or grandparents in the house for at least 5
years". For god's sake, their freaking grandpa was there 2 years
earlier. I'm surprised Matt Fox didn't say anything while saying the
line, in the taping.
Cajo MacAvity
> >
> > Did anyone notice on the last PO5 episode (the awful Christmas episode)
> > when Charlie was talking to Daphne's mother and trying to get her to
> > stay for Christmas, he said that "there hasn't been any parents or
> > grandparents around here for years?"
goldb...@home.com wrote:
>
<snip> I'm surprised Matt Fox didn't say anything while saying the
> line, in the taping.
This is an interesting point, goldberg. It's one thing to (justifiably)
rag on the carelessness of the writers, but what about the actors?
*They've* been with the show since day one even if the particular writer
of the episode has not. So, assuming they notice factual errors like
the "granpda" thing, do they just blow it off, or do they say something
about it? And if they do say something, are they ignored? I really
wonder about how this -- who's indifference is to blame for the mistakes
that make it to air?
<popular entertainment legend>
On the soap "Another World" several years ago, the writing staff was
fired "en masse" and replaced by a new crew. This eager new group
decided to have one of the main characters go blind. They set up the
scenario and "Rachel" went blind (can't remember how exactly). A lot of
episodes had already gone to air before someone mentioned to them that
this was the *second* time in a relatively short period that Rachel had
gone blind. When they confronted the actress and asked her why she
didn't say anything, (i.e. why didn't she stop them from repeating
themselves), actress Victoria Wyndham replied, "You didn't ask." From
then on, legend has it, the writers stopped trying to re-invent the
wheel and actually did some research on what had happened on the show in
the nearly twenty-odd years before they were hired to write for it.
</popular entertainment legend>
PO5 writers, are your following this thread? If you take any of my
ideas about casting, conferring with the actors, or anything I PROMISE I
will not sue. Just get with the program, literally.
Nudistgal
while trying to convince the mom to stay. If we didn't have writers,
fiction, etc. to blame, we could assume that Charlie was telling a "white
lie" to make his point stronger, or to win in a situation he was desperate
to prevail. It may not be "in character" for him to lie, but real people do,
and much bigger ones than that.
--
Born nude, be nude!
goldb...@home.com
> This is an interesting point, goldberg. It's one thing to (justifiably)
> rag on the carelessness of the writers, but what about the actors?
> *They've* been with the show since day one even if the particular writer
> of the episode has not. So, assuming they notice factual errors like
> the "granpda" thing, do they just blow it off, or do they say something
> about it? And if they do say something, are they ignored? I really
> wonder about how this -- who's indifference is to blame for the mistakes
> that make it to air?
You'd have to think that some of them would notice things like this. I
would assume that they probably just go along with what the writers
write though. My solution would be to get someone like myself who knows
practically everything about the show, to be hired to check the validity
of the script. Like someone should be present at the script reading,
read the script prior, or be present at the taping to look for stuff
like that. It would take care of so many problems, because obviously
the writers aren't catching everything like that.
> <popular entertainment legend>
> On the soap "Another World" several years ago, the writing staff was
> fired "en masse" and replaced by a new crew. This eager new group
> decided to have one of the main characters go blind. They set up the
> scenario and "Rachel" went blind (can't remember how exactly). A lot of
> episodes had already gone to air before someone mentioned to them that
> this was the *second* time in a relatively short period that Rachel had
> gone blind. When they confronted the actress and asked her why she
> didn't say anything, (i.e. why didn't she stop them from repeating
> themselves), actress Victoria Wyndham replied, "You didn't ask." From
> then on, legend has it, the writers stopped trying to re-invent the
> wheel and actually did some research on what had happened on the show in
> the nearly twenty-odd years before they were hired to write for it.
> </popular entertainment legend>
>
> PO5 writers, are your following this thread? If you take any of my
> ideas about casting, conferring with the actors, or anything I PROMISE I
> will not sue. Just get with the program, literally.
>
> --
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
> ------------------------------------------------
> Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness
> than by any virtue in the woman.
> -- Ninon De Lenclos
My mom and myself were talking about this basic topic. She told me
about how on her soap operas that have been around for decades with lots
of different writers that people would say things about a character in
the past or something similar, but yet it would totally contradict
something else that happened in the past. I can see that happening, and
I know writers aren't perfect, but there's easier ways of keeping this
from happening.
I also know that at least in the case of PO5, the viewers take the
consistency stuff very seriously.
Mugsymoesd
>Owen;
There was another Griffin? Are you sure? I don't ever remember that, and he's
always been my favorite character. Who was he?>
laurie
mugsymoesd
Buck Naked
Yeah, I thought of Alan Young but I just couldn't bring myself to see him as
Jake.
--
Buck Naked
> I'm not familiar with Bill Smitrovich or his work, but Pat Hingle is
> crotchety enough to step into Carroll O'Connor's shoes. Hal Linden is
> extremely talented, but if he had the role he'd probably insist on
> singing or playing the trumpet at some point <shudder>.
>
> Might I add ANYONE BUT WILFRED BRIMLEY! Pardon my yelling, but if I see
> his kindly old face playing the lovable but crusty old grandpa one more
> time ...
Of course, Wilfred Brimley! He'd be excellent! Your point about Hal Linden is well
taken, and I would want something in his contract that forbade any display of musical
talent (or lack) if he were chosen.
Hey, how about Karl Malden (Streets of San Francisco) or John Mahoney (Frasier's
father)?
David W. Tamkin
| Yeah, I thought of Alan Young but I just couldn't bring myself to see him as
| Jake.
No, not after he had already appeared as Jack. That's why I suggested
Dooley: he had been on television playing opposite Young.
--
The reply address is valid but I'll see mail to dattier at mcs dot net sooner.
David W. Tamkin
mugsy...@aol.com (Mugsymoesd) wrote in
<19981227144642...@ng-fs1.aol.com>:
| There was another Griffin? Are you sure?
100% on-my-life positive.
| I don't ever remember that, and he's always been my favorite character.
| Who was he?
James Marsden originated the role in "Ides of March" (the first season
finale). When he got the part of Ricky Beckett on _Second_Noah_ he turned
down the chance to stay on PoF as Griffin, and TPTB hired Jeremy London, who
took over the part as of "Ready or Not" (the second season premiere).
After _Second_Noah_'s cancellation, Marsden got a TV-movie role that London
had had to turn down.
Brian Smith
the last week and half but I was starting to think that I was hearing
things.
I think that the writers just plain screwed up on this. Caroll O'Conner was
on for about 6 episodes. The Cavarno twins were on for a hell of lot more
episodes than that and they still changed actors. So what would be the big
deal with changing the actor who plays the grandfather? They way they are
going they might as well cast Bill Cosby in the part. If they expected us to
believe the new Owen they'd have no qualms about asking us to believe Cosby
as grandpa.
Brian
Joyce Carlile wrote in message
<10387-36...@newsd-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Did anyone notice on the last PO5 episode (the awful Christmas episode)
when Charlie was talking to Daphne's mother and trying to get her to
stay for Christmas, he said that "there hasn't been any parents or
grandparents around here for years?"
It seems the writers have forgotten or maybe just conveniently forget
Cajo MacAvity
>
<snip> So, assuming [the PO5 cast] notice factual errors like
> > the "granpda" thing, do they just blow it off, or do they say something
> > about it? And if they do say something, are they ignored?
goldb...@home.com wrote:
>
> You'd have to think that some of them would notice things like this. I
> would assume that they probably just go along with what the writers
> write though.
Man, I'd be pissed off if I were in the position of watching the show I
starred in starting to lose coherence. Maybe it's just too hard to
speak up about these things on the PO5 set -- don't mess with the
writers, or something. I mean, how hard could it be to change a
sentence to make the show consistent? Rats.
> My solution would be to get someone like myself who knows
> practically everything about the show, to be hired to check the validity
> of the script. Like someone should be present at the script reading,
> read the script prior, or be present at the taping to look for stuff
> like that. It would take care of so many problems, because obviously
> the writers aren't catching everything like that.
This is essential. Or (and I'm sorry; this idea may cost you job!) they
should have a "black book" of PO5 history. Stephen King's lead
character in the book (and movie) "Misery" had a notebook like that for
his character of Misery containing all her "vital info". That way, he
could write book after book with her as the featured heroine and not
screw up her birthday, her long-lost auntie's name etc. without
resorting to pawing through every word he'd ever written looking for
information.
Couldn't this very simple device be used for long-running dramatic (or
comedic, for that matter) television shows? Especially if they have a
revolving door installed at the Writer's Room?
> I also know that at least in the case of PO5, the viewers take the
> consistency stuff very seriously.
More seriously than the people currently making the show, evidently.
Cajo MacAvity
>
> Hey, how about Karl Malden (Streets of San Francisco) or John Mahoney (Frasier's
> father)?
After seeing Karl Malden in "Nuts" (yes, the Streisand movie -- it was
marginally less than awful), I'm convinced that Mr. Malden could do
anything. Good choice!
I don't watch "Frasier" because I am not a Kelsey Grammer fan, but the
show's supporting cast -- especially John Mahoney -- is outstanding.
Cajo MacAvity
>
<snip> They way they are
> going they might as well cast Bill Cosby in the part. If they expected us to
> believe the new Owen they'd have no qualms about asking us to believe Cosby
> as grandpa.
I'll buy it, but only if Cos spends all his on-air time stuffing Owen
full of Jell-O Pudding so he can't whine anymore. "CHAAARRRLL --
UMMPPHH!!"
goldb...@home.com
> Man, I'd be pissed off if I were in the position of watching the show I
> starred in starting to lose coherence. Maybe it's just too hard to
> speak up about these things on the PO5 set -- don't mess with the
> writers, or something. I mean, how hard could it be to change a
> sentence to make the show consistent? Rats.
I think they get to have input as far as how something is said more
than what is said. We saw that evident in the E! PO5 special.
> This is essential. Or (and I'm sorry; this idea may cost you job!) they
> should have a "black book" of PO5 history. Stephen King's lead
> character in the book (and movie) "Misery" had a notebook like that for
> his character of Misery containing all her "vital info". That way, he
> could write book after book with her as the featured heroine and not
> screw up her birthday, her long-lost auntie's name etc. without
> resorting to pawing through every word he'd ever written looking for
> information.
>
> Couldn't this very simple device be used for long-running dramatic (or
> comedic, for that matter) television shows? Especially if they have a
> revolving door installed at the Writer's Room?
I thought the same thing. They should have sheets full of specific
information about all of the characters to look upon. Like for Love in
her new show, they better damn well have their facts straight about her
when doing this show or people will not support it. The only way is to
go through every episode she's been in and log everything she's
mentioned about her family, history, and past. I could see the writers
having her show up with her last name still being Reeves, while all the
fans start to walk away.
> --
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
> ------------------------------------------------
> Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness
> than by any virtue in the woman.
> -- Ninon De Lenclos
--
Hal Rand
Having been away for Xmas Dinner, I'm only now following this thread. I would
say several things:
1) I know there used to be a job called the "script girl" whose responsibility
was to check the script for continuity errors when there were re-writes, for
example. That job is still necessary, IMO. I don't know what's done now, at
least on TV shows.
2) As far as actors go, perhaps this explains why we sometimes hear of actors
having "creative differences" with the writers. We're given the impression
that the actors are prima donnas, but maybe it's more a case of they're fed
up with inconsistencies and lazy writing -- and the writing staff is offended
and complain to TPTB, who side with the writers.
I don't know; maybe Syndi can offer some insight into this. I wouldn't blame
Matt Fox without knowing more. But *someone* for sure is to blame. Acting like
Grandpa never existed is inexcusable.
Hal
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Hal Rand
ms_cajo_macavity@*deletethis*my-dejanews.com wrote:
> Brian Smith wrote:
> >
> <snip> They way they are
> > going they might as well cast Bill Cosby in the part. If they expected us to
> > believe the new Owen they'd have no qualms about asking us to believe Cosby
> > as grandpa.
>
> I'll buy it, but only if Cos spends all his on-air time stuffing Owen
> full of Jell-O Pudding so he can't whine anymore. "CHAAARRRLL --
> UMMPPHH!!"
I can see Owen as a regular on "Kids Say the Darndest Things"!
>
> --
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
> ------------------------------------------------
> Men lose more conquests by their own awkwardness
> than by any virtue in the woman.
> -- Ninon De Lenclos
Hal
Hal Rand
ms_cajo_macavity@*deletethis*my-dejanews.com wrote:
> goldb...@home.com wrote:
> >
> <snip> Extremely irresponsible
> > of the writers. Claudia would have been asking about him and stuff
> > around Christmas.
>
> Grandpa?" thing, especially since she was feeling so homesick and
> alienated from her family. Feh.
Particularly since she seemed to be closest to him.
>
> Cajo MacAvity
> ms_cajo-...@my-dejanews.com
> --
> Do NOT let them deceive you with the legitimization of their myth.
Hal
Buck Naked
> After seeing Karl Malden in "Nuts" (yes, the Streisand movie -- it was
> marginally less than awful), I'm convinced that Mr. Malden could do
> anything. Good choice!
Thanks. He's had quite a long career as an actor.
> I don't watch "Frasier" because I am not a Kelsey Grammer fan, but the
> show's supporting cast -- especially John Mahoney -- is outstanding.
Yeah, I don't watch Frasier, either, but like you I think Mahoney is an excellent
actor.
Here are a couple more ideas: Lawrence Tierney (played Elaine's Father on Seinfeld
and the mastermind crook in "Resevoir Dogs") and Gerald S. O'Loughlin.
Buck Naked
> Cajo MacAvity wrote:
>
> > This is essential. Or (and I'm sorry; this idea may cost you job!) they
> > should have a "black book" of PO5 history. Stephen King's lead
> > character in the book (and movie) "Misery" had a notebook like that for
> > his character of Misery containing all her "vital info". That way, he
> > could write book after book with her as the featured heroine and not
> > screw up her birthday, her long-lost auntie's name etc. without
> > resorting to pawing through every word he'd ever written looking for
> > information.
> >
> > Couldn't this very simple device be used for long-running dramatic (or
> > comedic, for that matter) television shows? Especially if they have a
> > revolving door installed at the Writer's Room?
>
> I thought the same thing. They should have sheets full of specific
> information about all of the characters to look upon.
It was my understanding that most shows do have this kind of thing, especially
dramatic series like soap operas (which PO5 is to a certain extent) because
there are usually so many characters that come in and out of show and the
producers/writers have recognized the need to keep them straight. Shows like
this will often have a "bible" to draw upon for reference for new writers and
those people who tend to forget. Hey, if nothing else, they could at least
have a copy of Brenda Scott Royce's book.
goldb...@home.com
> Yeah, I don't watch Frasier, either, but like you I think Mahoney is an excellent
> actor.
>
> Here are a couple more ideas: Lawrence Tierney (played Elaine's Father on Seinfeld
What the hell!? ^^^^^^^^ Anyone who has half a brain, and has been
around longer than a year would knwo what I'm talking about.
> and the mastermind crook in "Resevoir Dogs") and Gerald S. O'Loughlin.
> --
> ____________________________________________________________
> The Ferengi 33rd rule of acquisition: "It never hurts to suck up to the boss."
--