NYPD Blue summary/review: "Marine Life" (4/15/03) MAJOR SPOILERS
Alan Sepinwall
Sepinwall (sepi...@stwing.org)
"Marine Life"
Season 10, Episode 18
4/15/03
Teleplay by Jody Worth
Story by Bill Clark & Jody Worth
Directed by Matthew Penn
Happy accidents, ladies and gentlemen. Happy accidents. Due to a
communication breakdown, both of us independently wrote our own
reviews of tonight's show, so we decided to combine them. It's two,
two, TWO opinions in one! But first, it's time for a...
SUMMARY
DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL
Our lead male and female detective duos catch the murder of Richard
Forrest, who suffered a fatal blow to the head from a glass sculpture
in his apartment. While Andy and company wait for crime scene to lift
the bloody fingerprint from the sculpture, John notes that there's a
message waiting on Forrest's voicemail and a concert flyer near his phone
bearing the handwritten message, "Die, you dumb bitch."
The voicemail was from concert booker Carla Whitford, who told
Forrest, "You're an asshole and I hope you die in a ditch. Go to
hell." Confronted at her office, Whitford explains that Forrest was
independently wealthy and backed a number of bands; they had a
falling out after he she booked The Spikes, a band he had dropped and
told her to blackball. Carla has heard through the grapevine that
Forrest died in the early morning, and she has an alibi from midnight
to 6 a.m. While writing down contacts for her alibi witnesses, she
warns Andy and John that Forrest "was a grade-A prick who burned
everybody he worked with. You've got your work cut out for you."
A check of calls to Forrest's apartment turns up the number of Justin
Tangier, who happens to be the lead singer of the aforementioned
Spikes. Rita and Connie bring in Justin, who looks like Eddie
Izzard's pouty, stupid kid brother -- and who had Forrest's credit
card in his pocket when the detectives picked him up. He claims that he
and Forrest were still on good terms, that he repeatedly dropped the band
and then changed his mind, and that Forrest had a taste for young men.
Justin alibies that he was with a Remy Blanchard all night, but he's
locked up in the meantime for the bag of weed Connie and Rita found on
him.
Blanchard confirms Justin's story over the phone, while the bloody
print on the murder weapon is matched to Randall Stokes, a Marine who
recently went AWOL -- which is a nice coincidence, since Carla
Whitford said she had seen a Marine-looking type hanging around the
clubs with... Remy Blanchard. John Irvin has seen Blanchard's name in
the food section a lot and recognizes him as a wealthy restaurateur.
Blanchard, a middle-aged man with certain dramatic affectations, is
surprised to see Andy and John at his apartment door, and even more
surprised to hear them mention Randall Stokes -- especially when he
learns about Richard Forrest's death. He agrees to call Stokes' cell
phone and ask him back to the apartment. While they wait for Stokes,
Andy asks Blanchard about their relationship, which Blanchard says
wasn't sexual because Stokes "wasn't ready." Blanchard also mentions
that Justin is a gay pimp with absolutely no morals. Stokes returns
with a shopping bag and tries to bolt when he sees the cops, who wrestle
him to the ground and take him to the station.
While waiting for anti-crime cops to clear out of the pokey room,
Andy sits Stokes on the catching bench and makes a phone call. John
I. and Stokes stare at each other awkwardly. When Andy suggests they
talk about the weather, Stokes replies that the warmer climate
"brings the girls out." John I. looks puzzled by the comment.
In the pokey room, Stokes says he went AWOL to get away from his
tough gunnery sergeant for a few days. Andy replies that the gunnery
sergeant said that Stokes had been seen going into a gay bar, which
Stokes claims was an accident. (He didn't know what kind of bar it
was.) Andy brings up the bloody fingerprint, and Stokes says he woke
up in Forrest's apartment with the statue in his hand and Forrest
dead. He had been at a club when he met Justin, who told him about a
great party "with drugs and girls." When he saw it was just Forrest,
he decided to have one drink and bolt, and the next thing he
remembered was waking up in the murder scene. Andy suggests he might
have blacked out, and John wonders if Forrest tried to get Stokes to
do something sexual that he wasn't comfortable with, sending Stokes
into a murderous rage. Andy notes that Stokes' father is also a
Marine, which would explain why Stokes might be struggling with his
sexuality, but Stokes insists that he's straight. "Maybe I did do it," he
says in frustration. "I mean, if the guy came onto me, I would have
kicked his ass! But I just don't remember." As Stokes tells the
detectives to check with Justin, we see that John I. has been watching the
whole interview through the two-way mirror.
Justin, who had previously denied even knowing Stokes, now denies
pimping for him when Connie and Rita accuse him of using Stokes to
get Forrest to re-sign his band. With Justin's denial and Stokes'
quasi-confession, Valerie thinks she has enough to go to the grand
jury. John I. pulls Andy aside and confesses that he watched the
Stokes interview -- and, given his own memories of coming out and
what he's observed of Stokes, he thinks that right now, Stokes might
be relieved to be found guilty of anything other than being gay.
Andy decides to re-question Blanchard about Justin's alibi. Blanchard
won't recant until Andy threatens to arrest him for possession of
"kiddie porn" (i.e., the art and photography books on his coffee
table). Remy breaks down and admits that Justin wasn't with him all
night. The cops bring him back to the precinct to confront Justin
with the truth. Backed into a corner, Justin's revised story is that
Forrest wanted him to have sex with the doped-up, passed-out Stokes,
and he killed Forrest to avoid being "forced" into a gay sex act.
Andy tells Stokes that Justin copped to the murder, but that he's
still in trouble for being AWOL. Andy wants Stokes to tell his
superiors that he had planned to come back in a few days, to avoid
serving hard time for desertion. Before the MPs arrive, Andy has John
I. sit down with him. John very delicately but firmly says that he
went through what he imagines Stokes is going through right now, and
that he eventually found a place in the world where he fit in.
"You've got the wrong guy," says a tearful Stokes, who is led away by
the MPs without saying another word.
MAIL-ORDER MURDER
Greg and Baldwin catch a home assault. Russian immigrant Natalia
Pardee was coming home to her apartment when she was jumped by an
attacker who tried to strangle her with a cord; she clawed the guy
and he bolted. Natalia seems nervous around cops and doesn't think
Greg and Baldwin should bother investigating this one. As the
paramedics prepare to load Natalia into the ambulance, her husband
Roy, a short, sweaty, heavyset guy, rushes in to make sure she's
okay. She assures him that she's fine and the detectives bring Roy to
the precinct to answer questions.
Greg, wondering how a guy like Roy wound up with a looker like
Natalia, asks if she was a mail-order bride; Roy says he met her
"through a dating agency." At first, Roy acts like the marriage is in
fine shape, but the more questions he answers, the more he admits
that he's really not getting along with Natalia, a hard "Moscow woman" who
does her own thing, doesn't communicate with him and may be sleeping
around with the guys at the bar where she hostesses. Baldwin asks whether
the marriage has been difficult enough for Roy to want his wife killed.
"No; not by a long shot," he says.
The detectives' next stop is Natalia's workplace, where they hear
rumors that she was having an affair with Chris Dunwoody. Brought in
for an interview, Chris is shocked to learn that Natalia was attacked
and says that the furthest it ever got between them was necking,
because Natalia didn't want to cheat on Roy. He calls her "one of the
sweetest chicks I've ever met" and says that she wanted to get a divorce
but couldn't chance it with her immigration status -- and that Roy kept
threatening to have her deported if she walked out.
It's round two with Roy, who says Natalia knows how to manipulate
people and is probably telling lies about him. "What, did Natalia bat
her eyes at you?" he asks the cops. "Show you some leg?" Baldwin
mentions that Roy was married once before to a Philippino mail order
bride, who disappeared after they had been married for a few years.
Roy says that Wife #1 had gotten "Americanized" -- he assumed that
she just left him. The detective from the original case, however,
told our guys that he suspected foul play in general and Roy in
particular because the wife didn't take anything but her purse.
A second interview with Natalia yields no information, so the cops
bring in Roy's brother Kurt, who has a minor rap sheet and a drug
history that has fried his brain enough to make him slow-witted. Kurt
has a scratch under his eye, which matches Natalia's story about
clawing at her attacker. When Kurt stonewalls, Greg pulls off his
jacket, puts one hand on Kurt's carotid pulse and one on his wrist,
while explaining that he spent two years in the FBI's "Lie Detection
Unit." Kurt's dim enough to believe this, and Baldwin conducts an
abbreviated lie detector interview with him -- which Kurt "fails"
when asked about the assault. As Kurt begins to crack under the
pressure, the detectives try to get him to flip on Roy for
masterminding the thing, but Kurt says he did it all on his own --
both attacking Natalia and murdering Wife #1. Roy essentially takes
care of him, and "they didn't treat him right... And I want him to be
happy."
Kurt explains where Wife #1's body can be found, and Roy is brought
to the dig sight to identify the remains. Faced with his remorseful
brother, Roy tells him, "It's okay, champ."
GUARDING VAL
ADA Haywood is in court trying to prevent the release of drug
dealer/murderer Jerry Wells, who was convicted several years ago
largely on the testimony of a witness who has since recanted. Valerie
tries to convince the judge that Wells' people scared the witness
into changing her story, but Wells' original sentence is vacated and
he's released on bail pending a new trial. Before he leaves the
courtroom, Wells announces that he doesn't blame Valerie for his
conviction and holds no hard feelings against her; as the judge
objects, Wells' lawyer hustles his client out of the room.
Later in the day, Valerie comes to the 15th squad to tell Baldwin
about Wells' comments -- and about the disturbing number of hang-up
calls she's gotten in the hours since. Baldwin asks Valerie for
Wells' contact information and tries to reassure her, but as soon as
she leaves, he starts to get angry.
After the shift ends, Baldwin shows up at Wells' apartment, where the
half-naked drug dealer is entertaining an all-naked lady, who hustles
into the bathroom after Baldwin pushes his way in and makes it clear
the he expects Wells to stop harassing Valerie, ASAP. If not, he
intends to come back and do more than just push Wells around a little --
and in case his tone wasn't convincing enough, he tells Wells exactly
what he plans to say to any judge who asks him about brutality. ("And,
yes, Mr. Wells went to grab my gun so I had to subdue him. Was the
beating excessive, your honor? I certainly don't think so.") Wells says
that this has all been a big misunderstanding. "That's what I figured,"
says Baldwin on his way out the door.
CONNIE DEAREST
Andy is distracted throughout the day because Theo is playing the
letter "Z" in his school's play about the alphabet -- and, more
importantly, because Theo's teacher keeps referring to Connie as
"Mrs. Sipowicz." Connie understands Andy's concern and tells him to
explain things to the teacher after the play.
That night, Theo goes on last (he is "Z," after all) and if he
doesn't quite nail his dialogue, it's good enough to get wild
applause from Andy and Connie. At the dessert reception afterwards,
Theo's teacher introduces herself, while Theo refers to Connie as "my
mom." Andy explains about Sylvia and his current living arrangement, but
after an awkward pause, Theo tries to drag Connie over to the cookie table
by declaring, "Come on, Mommy, you're missing the good stuff!" As a
pensive Andy stares around the room at all the seemingly happy, seemingly
nuclear families, his gaze settles on a very maternal-looking Connie
giving Theo a cookie.
WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
It's the morning after John and Rita broke up, and Andy predicts that
"it's gonna hit the fan" at some point if these two keep working
together. But on this shift, there aren't any problems, and though
Rita dismisses John's offer to remain friends as "a little naive...
and kind of insulting, to be honest." She just wants mutual respect
and for them to do their jobs and act like adults, a plan John
readily agrees to.
REVIEW
DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL
AMANDA: Despite all the stereotypes on display in this story (aging
queen with an empty life and an attitude problem, soulless rocker
with an eyeliner problem, confused middle-class gay who, soul
searching, falls in with the wrong crowd), the story held up pretty
well. Its strength was PAA John and how his observations helped Andy
turn a corner in the investigation. Andy trusted PJohn's instinct and
went with it, and that's what cracked the case.
I only wish PJohn had not displayed such meekness in profferring his
assessment. That "I'll never do it again" line was a little much.
And in the final scene with the Marine, he said he was accepted in
his job in the PD and said his life was wonderful because he babysits
the detectives' kids. Well, gee, why wouldn't he also mention he has
a loving sister and that his father finally accepted him (he did,
didn't he? My memory may be faulty on this, but if he did, then he'd
surely have said that.) And what about his life outside of work?
Seems to me if you're trying to convince someone their life will be
OK, wouldn't you focus on more than your job and your babysitting?
In any case, Bill Brochtrup did, as always, a fantastic job with the
work he was given to do. He and Dennis Franz are just top notch in
scenes together. Every single one they do is a homerun.
ALAN: When John I. apologized to Andy for sticking his nose into this
case and insisted that this was a one-time thing, I blinked. Either
John has a short memory or the writers do, because John did exactly
the same thing -- using his personal insight to help Andy out with a
murder case with a gay suspect -- about three years ago, in season
seven's "Welcome to New York." If you want to get technical, Andy
asked for John's assistance in that episode, while John didn't wait
for an invitation here, but there were enough parallels between the
two stories to be distracting.
Bill Brochtrup is a fine actor who's been around the show
significantly longer than anyone but Dennis Franz and Gordon Clapp,
and I know it has to be frustrating (for both Bill and the writers)
trying to figure out ways to give John real screen time. But if he
was going to play amateur detective again, there should have been a
stronger attempt to differentiate this story from the last one. Even
during those years when Andy referred to him as "Gay John," John was
never defined solely by his sexuality, so why do another story where
he's of use to the cops solely because he's gay? Maybe something
involving higher culture, which he's a fan of while the cops all tend
to be fairly low-brow. (I'm guessing Theo's alphabet play was the
first theatrical production Andy's been to in a while.)
That said, the scenes with John were the strongest of an A-story that
was otherwise all over the map. Like I said, Bill Brochtrup is a fine
actor, and he brought real conviction to this story; the last scene
in the cages was genuinely moving.
(Oh, and as I recall, the story with John's dad ended with them
agreeing to disagree about John's sexuality.)
MAIL ORDER MUDER
AMANDA: The highlight here, of course, was Greg's human lie detector
stunt. Loved it. He's got a whole pack of these things to his credit,
and he does them so well. Other than that, this story was kind of a
yawner. Not much in the way of interesting facts, and there was
hardly any detective work. I kept wondering why they weren't talking
to the victim. (They did mention it once, but we didn't see it.)
ALAN: This subplot seemed like something David Milch might have
written, in that it wandered around for a while but paid off nicely
in the final interrogation scene, which made a smooth transition from
comedy (Greg, the 15th squad's resident performance artist, playing
human lie detector) to tragedy (Kurt's confession). Even though we'd
only been introduced to Kurt moments earlier, I actually found myself
caring about this brotherly relationship -- a nifty feat by the actor
and writer Jody Worth.
GUARDING VAL
AMANDA: This reminded me so much of Bobby Simone I nearly fell over.
It was like the time he shoved his badge in the little kid's
forehead, or threatened the guys who beat up PJohn's boyfriend, or
smacked little Henry down. Not that Henry Simmons didn't do this
perfectly, but it seemed like sort of a rerun. It's likely a set up,
so let's hope there's a great big exciting payoff.
ALAN: I don't know if this was a one-shot story or setup for an
ongoing arc, and I'm not sure which I'd prefer. I'm glad to see the
show taking advantage of Henry Simmons' physicality (his biggest
asset as an actor, no pun intended), but Amanda's right that this was
like a blending of Simone's greatest hits. If this story does
continue, I have one request: please, please, please don't resolve it
off-screen.
WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
AMANDA: Easily my favorite scene of the entire show. Ever since Rita
went overboard "comforting" John right after his father's death, I've
had it in for this once-loveable relationship. What made this work
so well was MPG's raised eyebrows after her little tirade. I mean,
here's a guy being straightforward, telling her he still wants to be
friends. It's clear he doesn't hate her and isn't mad at her--hell,
he seems to really like and care about her--so he makes an effort to
get that across to her. What does she do? She bites his head off.
What can the guy do but say, OK and not fight with her? And the
raised eyebrows, the resignation, just summed it up perfectly. After
all, she's mad at him because he couldn't be what she wanted him to
be. That's way unfair. Why bother with someone like that?
ALAN: I didn't read it quite the same way. I'm not Rita's biggest
fan, but I think she had a point. First, John was the one doing the
dumping, so it's not as big a deal for him to do the Let's Be Friends
speech. Second, she's right; post-romantic friendships are a dicey
proposition. Her idea of just trying to stay professional and
respectful may be the best they can hope for -- and the approach I
hope the writers take by easing up on this duo's scenes together.
The bit at the beginning where Rita, Connie and Andy all thought John
was saying "Die, you dumb bitch" was very funny, by the way.
CONNIE DEAREST
AMANDA: Dennis Franz blew me away in the final scene. He said
nothing while standing there watching Theo take "mommy" over to the
cookie table, but what I heard him saying inside his head with a
broken voice was, "Oh, Sylvia, I do miss you. Is this all OK with
you?" I didn't get that he was doubting his arrangement with Connie
or his feelings for her (too bad), but rather he was just feeling
mournful over letting Sylvia go so completely. It's as if he's
confronting a new milestone in his grieving process and is sort of
struggling with it. I hope that's what was intended--it was very
touching. I'm pleased that Connie isn't being made out this week to
be a hag about these things. It's very cool that she's OK with Andy
clearing things up and doing what he needs to do to be comfortable
with everything. Nothing worse than a woman feeling threatened and
jealous (like Rita, who's jealous of John's grief and selfishly angry
over the fact that he won't share it with her. She *should* be
concerned about him rather than herself); Connie doesn't feel any of
that where Sylvia is concerned and that suits her so very well. It's
just what you'd expect out of this supremely confident woman they've
crafted. Now, if *all* the people who write Connie will stay on this
track, things just might be OK. One more request re: Andy and
Connie: can we please see them kicking ass together on a case again?
Remember that? It was the reason we all thought they had such great
chemistry.
ALAN: Okay, this one bugged me. Theo's confusion is a genuine blended
family issue, but it seemed to come out of nowhere, especially when
Theo called Connie "Mommy" at the end. It's just not plausible that
he's been referring to her as his mother in school long enough to
confuse the teacher, yet he hasn't done it once in front of Connie or
Andy before now.
Austin Majors remains a sweetheart, however. Loved the alphabet play.
And Dennis Franz was right on the money in the final scene; no need
for dialogue to explain Andy's conflicted emotions.
QUICK HITS:
(You'll have to guess who wrote what here, though one of them is
pretty obvious.)
*I loved those Marine cops. One line from that guy "Stand up,
Marine," and my heart was melting.
*Mike Post, closet Pink Floyd fan? The transition music into the
scene where Greg and Baldwin arrived at their crime scene sounded an
awful lot like "Another Brick in the Wall, Pt. 2," didn't it?
*So this rich gay guy has a fake Greek statue in his apartment, OK,
but what's up the FIG LEAF??? I guess they're not allowed to do full
frontal STATUE nudity on TV, either. That cracked me all up. I mean,
if you're going to pretend you have taste and you're going to own one
of those things, you're sure as hell not going to have one with a
damn fig leaf! Of course, his entire apartment looked as if it had
been decorated by Michael Jackson (who, strangely enough, also likes
to have young men sitting around his place watching TV in their
underwear....hmmmm....coincidence? You tell me.)
*So it's the day after John and Rita split, right? And, therefore, the
day after last week's episode? Shouldn't Baldwin still be somewhat out of
sorts over killing that kid ? (And, yes, the show does this trick quite
often: having two episodes take place on consecutive days, but only
acknowledging that for certain characters. Doesn't mean it's a good
tradition.)
*Hank!
*Seems to us that Theo's teacher would have known Connie wasn't his
real Mom. After all, he hasn't been calling her Mommy all that long.
*Isn't Theo a little old to be doing alphabet plays? They should be
doing the lives of the Presidents or the lives of ants or something
by his age.
*Cat Call: Connie's hair looked fabulous. PJohn needs a hair cut.
*Valerie and Baldwin: I didn't get to say it last week since I was
attending to other matters, but I thought the final scene with them
was very nice. This week, I'm still hanging in there with these two.
Valerie has changed for the better--her character, it seems, has been
redrawn a bit, and it's a major improvement. At some point they're
going to half to talk about the baby they never had.
*Nice to see a courtroom in the show. It's been a while.
THE GUEST STARS
Paula Malcolmson as Carla Whitford, Olga Vilner as Natalia Pardee,
Patrick Gallo as Roy Pardee, Brad Hunt as Jerry Wells, Michael
Raysses as Howard Collins, Angela Sargent as judge, Andy Powers as
Justin Tangier, Josh Stamberg as Chris Dunwoody, Rocco Sisto as Remy
Blanchard, Scott Peat as Randall Stokes, Gareth Williams as Kurt
Pardee, Ana B. Gabriel as Janice Muscarelli, Joseph Carberry as
uniform no. 25 and Andy Klaiman as ESU no. 26.
LINES OF THE WEEK:
Greg placing his hands on the half-wit's pulse points: "I spent two
years in the FBI's lie detection unit."
John reading something within earshot of Rita: "Die you dumb bitch"
Andy, vis a vis John and Rita: "It's gonna hit the fan."
Connie: "Let's think positive."
Andy: "You can light your incense and say 'Ohm,' but trust me... the fan."
NEXT WEEK
What's this? A rerun? Is ABC allowed to rerun "Blue" anymore?
Whatever the reason, next week's showing of "Meat Me in the Park" is
the first in-season "Blue" repeat in quite some time. In two weeks,
we're back with original episodes for the rest of the season, as Baby
MacDowell's grandparents show up and Andy looks into a fraud ring.
And Amanda should be back to solo reviews.
Thanks for reading,
Amanda & Alan
Marc Dashevsky
> The bit at the beginning where Rita, Connie and Andy all thought John
> was saying "Die, you dumb bitch" was very funny, by the way.
I didn't laugh. It struck me as being so contrived. There's
no way they'd ever think John was referring to Rita.
> *Isn't Theo a little old to be doing alphabet plays?
Absolutely. I think that would be a kindergarten phenomenon.
> *Cat Call: Connie's hair looked fabulous. PJohn needs a hair cut.
His face was lined too. I guess he's nine years older than
when I first saw him.
--
Marc Dashevsky -- Remove '_' from address if replying by e-mail.
KStahl
his own decision to be interesting. But if his brain was fried as suggested,
wouldn't it be more likely that he would have given himself away after wife
#1's death? Someone who is sharp as a tack might be able to remember what
not to say, but with this guy a beer or two should have been all it took to
get him to say things that he didn't intend. Still, it was an interesting
twist that I had not expected.
Bard7696
plausible.
With all the reality shows like Cops and fiction shows using based-on-real-life
techniques such as Blue and shows and movies about the FBI, not to mention
CourtTV, I find it hard to believe anyone would fall for something like that.
Have to side with Amanda on the Rita thing. Five bucks says she's the one who
flies off the handle first and blows this "professional" thing she says she
wants and instead of John calling her on it, he'll come off as the sensitive
guy and just sit there and take it.
Man, write her off already.
This is two weeks in a row Alan has commented on similarities from past
episodes to this one. I wholeheartedly agree with him, but I'm wondering if
it's a lost cause. The show perhaps has to go through some selective amnesia to
keep ideas churning.
The Connie as Mom thing is annoying because I seem to remember when this show
deal with issues such as alcoholism, incest, widow and widowerhood, family
members with drug problems, girlfriends hooked up to the mob, mental illness,
etc...
Maybe my prejudice as a single childless person is coming through, but I really
couldn't care less about Andy's "Theo is calling my shack-up 'Mommy.'" crisis.
You know what would be kind of cool? Sharon Lawrence coming back in a dream
sequence, telling Andy it's OK (or asking Andy "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU LETTING
HIM CALL THAT SLUT MOMMY FOR?")
Ok, maybe it's lame, but it is weird to me to see Sharon Lawrence and James
McDaniel in those TNT promos. God, can't they get parts?
David Lesher
>ALAN: When John I. apologized to Andy for sticking his nose into this
>case and insisted that this was a one-time thing, I blinked. Either
>John has a short memory or the writers do, because John did exactly
>the same thing -- using his personal insight to help Andy out with a
>murder case with a gay suspect -- about three years ago...
I took this to mean watching from the observation room, not
suggesting something.
David Lesher
re: Lie Detector.
The classic of this ilk was the famous Homicide, Life on the Streets
scene with the photocopy machine "polygraph"....
Joseph DeMartino
the MPs without saying another word.<
Actually, that's not the case. After he tells John that he's got "the
wrong guy" while they are sitting together in the cage, Stokes pulls
himself togther and thanks Andy for helping him. As Stokes is led out
by the marines he passes John and says, "Thank you" to him, as well,
which would seem to indicate that part of the message got through - or
at least the sincerity of John's desire to help.
The reviews:
You might say that they're stereotypes, I say that the characters in the
"A" story were true-to-life sketches of real character types that anyone
who has had any contact with the various "art scenes" in Manhattan will
recognize in a heartbeat. Some cliches and stereotypes come into being
because they reflect reality, not just out of prejudice. I've met a
half-dozen real-life versions of Justin, Remy, etc. in my travels, some
of whom even bore striking physical resemblances to the actors.
John I. was primarily apologizing for watching the interview through the
one-way glass in the adjoining room, not simply for involving himself in
the case - and especially for doing so without telling Andy. In effect
he was eaves-dropping on the detectives as much as on the suspect - and
I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't an explict policy in the NYPD or
at least in most squads that covers who is allowed in the observations
rooms, and under what circumstances. I'm reasonably sure that PAAs
aren't authorized to be in there, at least without an accompanying
detective or police officer, and even then only if there is a good
reason. "Spying" on the detectives' interview *was* unprecedented, and
merited an apology.
As for his what he said to Stokes: 1) One of Stoke's big issues *is*
his job - being a marine, the sort of apotheosis of straight
masculinity. In Stoke's case the job issue is inseperable from the
family issue, because Stoke's father is also a marine, but the job issue
is still the one in the forefront of his thoughts as he's shipped back
to the brig. 2) The only part of John's life that Stokes has even the
most fleeting knowledge of is his work at the precinct. And, of course,
Stokes has spent time with the detectives. So in emphasizing that he
has found a place in and is accepted by the only-slightly-less-macho
world of the NYPD, trusted and valued by people like the ex-marine Andy
S. (who just *had* to remind Stokes of his own father), and has the
kind of pseudo-family relationships (the babysitting) with them that can
substitute for the loss of a real family, John addresses Stokes's most
immediate concerns. And he does so using concrete examples that Stokes
has observed and can understand - the job, Andy - rather than
abstractions like John's father and sister.
> but it seemed to come out of nowhere, especially when Theo called
Connie "Mommy" at the end. <
I thought this issue came up ages ago, and that Andy, somewhat
uncomfortably, went along with it. So it is quite possible that Theo
has been doing this for some time. Also what month is it in the show?
Children usually get a new teacher for each grade, so it could be that
Theo has always referred to his "mommy and daddy" when talking about his
homelife with *this* teacher. So for her that's "always" how it has
been - even if it is only October or November, and he just started
referring to Connie as "mommy" in July.
Regards,
Joe
Marc Dashevsky
> As humorous as the human lie detector thing was, such tricks
> are hardly plausible.
To normal perps, yes, but as Alanda wrote:
the cops bring in Roy's brother Kurt, who has a minor rap
sheet and a drug history that has fried his brain enough
to make him slow-witted.
--
Joseph DeMartino
TNT promos. God, can't they get parts? <
I'm sure they can - but why turn down work when you can get it?
Besides, there may have been a promotional clause in their old contracts
that *required* them to hype the show for its first big cable sale.
I've seen other shows sold into second run on TNT where the actors also
did promo appearances on film, and sometimes even did live events at TNT
in Atlanta if the network wanted to hype an acquisition enough.
Regards,
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
> scene with the photocopy machine "polygraph"....
Which was based on a real incident (possibly more than one) so you can't
say that "nobody would be dumb enough to fall for that", there are at
least some people who *are*. (And not all brain-fried drug addicts.
There was a case only the other day where the victim of a crime was
asked if she saw the two men who had robbed her in the courtroom.
Before she could point to them sitting at the defense table or say a
word, the two waved to her and nodded. Or the guy who had to pick his
wife up at the county jail, but lacked transportation. So he stole a
pick-up truck, parked it in the handicapped space at the jail, and left
his unlicensed handgun on the front seat when he went inside - well, he
gets points for not trying to take a gun inside, anyway. A deputy
ticketing the truck for the illegal parking job learned the whole story
when he called in the tag, and the upshot was that both husband and wife
remained guests of the state. <g>.)
Joseph DeMartino
> Clark Kent. In his reporter guise, he held the wrist of a
> wrongly-convicted man on death row in the old Superman television
> series.
Of course, being Superman, he really *could* tell if the guy was lying.
("Daredevil" can do the same thing in the comics - not sure about the
movie, haven't seen it yet.)
Regards,
Joe
LRod
Sepinwall) wrote:
>CONNIE DEAREST
>Andy explains about Sylvia and his current living arrangement, but
>after an awkward pause,
I hated this. There is no reason on earth that anyone would feel
compelled to explain their sleeping arrangements to anyone else,
particularly the kid's teacher. Why is it a problem if the teacher is
under the impression they are married and that Connie is Theo's
mother?
>QUICK HITS:
>(You'll have to guess who wrote what here, though one of them is
>pretty obvious.)
It was, right away:
>*I loved those Marine cops. One line from that guy "Stand up,
>Marine," and my heart was melting.
See, I can't picture Alan's heart melting over a Marine, so this was
obviously it...until:
>*Hank!
OAS (note that the "A" is for either Amanda or Alan): Great job y'all.
Actually, these twofers are fun. Feel free to double up again in the
future.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
Joseph DeMartino
> compelled to explain their sleeping arrangements to anyone else,
> particularly the kid's teacher. Why is it a problem if the teacher is
> under the impression they are married and that Connie is Theo's
> mother?
That *isn't* the problem. Leaving the world, and Theo himself, with the
impression that Sylvia never existed *is* a problem for Andy. He wants
her memory honored at least to the extent that people know that Connie
is not his natural mother. It kills Andy that Theo probably doesn't
remember Sylvia at all, while he can't forget her. I'm guessing that
you're not married and/or don't have kids, and that you've never had
anyone close to you lose a spouse. These things are *not* trivial for
the survivor, especially where kids are concerned. Part of what was
going through Andy's mind at that school had to be how proud Sylvia
would have been of Theo, and how she "should have" been there. Even
though he knows better intellectually, having Connie there in Sylvia's
"place" and letting Theo call her "mommy" has to *feel* like a betrayal
of Sylvia and her memory on some level. That's why this is an "issue"
for Andy - and why Connie explicitly gave him permission to explain
things to the teacher earlier in the episode. She understands.
Regards,
Joe
Joanie
sepi...@force.stwing.upenn.edu (Alan Sepinwall) writes:
> Andy Powers as Justin Tangier
Is this the same person who was first the bitch for the
white power guys on Oz then killed Beecher's father?
I kept trying to place him and it just came to me reading
the reviews (I think).
Joanie
LRod
<jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I'm guessing that you're not married and/or don't have kids, and
>that you've never had anyone close to you lose a spouse.
You would be wrong on all three counts (32 years, 2 kids, mother
widowed 8 years ago).
>These things are *not* trivial for the survivor...
People handle losses differently, I suppose. For me, it just didn't
ring true the way they played that angle.
sun573
I totally agree with you all the way......That is why i think that
Andy and Connie totally belong together because they understand each
other esp about issues such as this. This would seem hurtful to other
people, but Connie has been by his side all the way. I love this
storyline so much.
topcat
Joanie wrote:
> > Andy Powers as Justin Tangier
>
>
> Is this the same person who was first the bitch for the
> white power guys on Oz then killed Beecher's father?
> I kept trying to place him and it just came to me reading
> the reviews (I think).
>
THAT'S IT! I knew I had seen this guy before. He did do Oz.
TC
Diana
The female victim was tearfully testifying that she had been beaten and robbed by two men
The district attorney listened intently. "And are the two perpetrators of this terrible crime present in the courtroom today?" District Attorney Bruce Roberson asked.
Both defendants immediately raised their hands. "Here, your honor."
Diana
Joseph DeMartino wrote:
[snip]
Userb3
news:b7ift7$2...@force.stwing.upenn.edu:
> Rita and Connie bring in Justin, who looks like Eddie
> Izzard's pouty, stupid kid brother
You know, there are so few men who really know how to use eye liner....
> John I. pulls Andy aside and confesses that he watched the
> Stokes interview -- and, given his own memories of coming out and
> what he's observed of Stokes, he thinks that right now, Stokes might
> be relieved to be found guilty of anything other than being gay.
This bothered me a little. While John certainly has more of an affinity for
the process of coming to grips with one's sexuality, it seems a little too
predictable to have John's gaydar instantly go off, assess the situation,
and then clue the straight detectives in to the real story. It reminds me
of cases in old cop shows that were broken when the secretary, wife, or
other nearby woman would offer "why, no woman would leave home without her
lipstick!" and provide the clue that turned the case around.
> Before the MPs arrive, Andy has John
> I. sit down with him. John very delicately but firmly says that he
> went through what he imagines Stokes is going through right now, and
> that he eventually found a place in the world where he fit in.
> "You've got the wrong guy," says a tearful Stokes, who is led away by
> the MPs without saying another word.
Actually, he thanked Andy and gave John a meaningful look. He's all better
now.
> MAIL-ORDER MURDER
> Natalia seems nervous around cops and doesn't think
> Greg and Baldwin should bother investigating this one.
Given who the assailant turned out to be, why was she so reluctant to have
the cops catch her? At the time, I figured she was mobbed up (aren't all
Russians on cop shows?), but it turns out she was just a woman being
attacked.
> When Kurt stonewalls, Greg pulls off his
> jacket, puts one hand on Kurt's carotid pulse and one on his wrist,
> while explaining that he spent two years in the FBI's "Lie Detection
> Unit."
This was the highlght of the episode, and showed off Medavoy and Baldwin's
partnership. The looks between them as they went through the process were
classic.
> GUARDING VAL
> After the shift ends, Baldwin shows up at Wells' apartment, where the
> half-naked drug dealer is entertaining an all-naked lady,
She was better looking than he was. I think you have this backwards.
> Wells says that this has all been a big misunderstanding.
> "That's what I figured," says Baldwin on his way out the door.
Anyone besides me hope that this leads to something and it isn't simply
another throwaway use of the big guy?
> CONNIE DEAREST
> Andy is distracted throughout the day because Theo is playing the
> letter "Z" in his school's play about the alphabet -- and, more
> importantly, because Theo's teacher keeps referring to Connie as
> "Mrs. Sipowicz."
Which was bizarre. As any step parent, or SO of a single parent can tell
you, it happens, and happens all the time. No reason it should freak Andy
out as much as it did.
> That night, Theo goes on last (he is "Z," after all) and if he
> doesn't quite nail his dialogue, it's good enough to get wild
> applause from Andy and Connie.
Wadda ya mean, didn't nail the dialogue? It was a classic demonstration of
the thespian arts. Sir Lawrence Olivier wouldn't have followed that act -
it was award city all the way, baby!
>At the dessert reception afterwards,
> Theo's teacher introduces herself, while Theo refers to Connie as "my
> mom." Andy explains about Sylvia and his current living arrangement,
> but after an awkward pause, Theo tries to drag Connie over to the
> cookie table by declaring, "Come on, Mommy, you're missing the good
> stuff!" As a pensive Andy stares around the room at all the seemingly
> happy, seemingly nuclear families, his gaze settles on a very
> maternal-looking Connie giving Theo a cookie.
All right - this scene played out exactly right, in my experience (I'm a
step father). I remember a few awkward moments when the kids were young and
Mrs. Userb3 and I were still new enough that we thought we had to explain
to everyone what the deal was.
> WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
A great song, btw.
> Rita dismisses John's offer to remain friends as "a little naive...
> and kind of insulting, to be honest."
Why was it insulting? In this squad everyone is either friends or bed
partners. Is there a third option?
> REVIEW
>
> DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL
> AMANDA:
> And in the final scene with the Marine, he said he was accepted in
> his job in the PD and said his life was wonderful because he babysits
> the detectives' kids.
Something I'm sure a big strapping jarhead Marine would long to do. Why
didn't John also mention that he'd gotten front row seats to see Nathan
Lane, and unlike our rocker friend, had learned to never wear heavy
eyeliner before dark?
> In any case, Bill Brochtrup did, as always, a fantastic job with the
> work he was given to do. He and Dennis Franz are just top notch in
> scenes together. Every single one they do is a homerun.
Agreed. I loved Andy's face after John told him he'd watched the
interrogation. You could almost see the wheels turn as he went through
being mad at John's overstepping to considering John's point, to putting
the pieces together.
> ALAN: When John I. apologized to Andy for sticking his nose into this
> case and insisted that this was a one-time thing, I blinked.
He meant spying on an interrogation.
> (Oh, and as I recall, the story with John's dad ended with them
> agreeing to disagree about John's sexuality.)
Unless the Marine was with Medavoy in the Lie Detector Unit, who's to say
different?
> WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
> The bit at the beginning where Rita, Connie and Andy all thought John
> was saying "Die, you dumb bitch" was very funny, by the way.
Agreed!
> CONNIE DEAREST
> AMANDA: ...One more request re: Andy and
> Connie: can we please see them kicking ass together on a case again?
What she said!
> LINES OF THE WEEK:
> Andy: "You can light your incense and say 'Ohm,' but trust me... the
> fan."
This was right up there as one of the lines of the season.
> NEXT WEEK
> And Amanda should be back to solo reviews.
Amanda, honey, you're the greatest and all, but the two of you together are
hotter than a cup of McDonald's coffee! Thanks for the pas de deux, you
two.
Userb3
news:MPG.1906a5e5...@netnews.attbi.com:
> bard...@aol.com says in article
> <20030416000138...@mb-fa.aol.com>:
>> As humorous as the human lie detector thing was, such tricks
>> are hardly plausible.
>
> To normal perps, yes, but as Alanda wrote:
>
> the cops bring in Roy's brother Kurt, who has a minor rap
> sheet and a drug history that has fried his brain enough
> to make him slow-witted.
>
And on top of that, throw in the natural tension of being locked in an
interrogation room where everyone else has the power to hurt you, and lots
of things become believable that wouldn't ordinarily be.
Userb3
@netnews.att.net:
> On 15 Apr 2003 22:41:43 -0400, sepi...@force.stwing.upenn.edu (Alan
> Sepinwall) wrote:
>
>>CONNIE DEAREST
>>Andy explains about Sylvia and his current living arrangement, but
>>after an awkward pause,
>
> I hated this. There is no reason on earth that anyone would feel
> compelled to explain their sleeping arrangements to anyone else,
> particularly the kid's teacher.
That's not entirely true. There are a whole range of issues that come up
with parental rights, authority, and liability when a non-parent is picking
kids up, dropping them off, taking them to the doctor, etc. When Mrs.
Userb3 and I were dating, we had a letter on file with the school
authorizing me to act as the kid's guardian in the event of a school
emergency and have acces to the kids' records. Without that, the teachers
wouldn't so much as let me on the premises.
Alan Sepinwall
Bard7696 <bard...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>This is two weeks in a row Alan has commented on similarities from past
>episodes to this one. I wholeheartedly agree with him, but I'm wondering if
>it's a lost cause. The show perhaps has to go through some selective amnesia to
>keep ideas churning.
The show's been recycling stories for years -- at this point, there's
really no other choice. I just wish the writers would add some fresher
spins to these stories. If last week's show had focused a little more on
Baldwin, it wouldn't have felt like such a rip-off of "Guns 'N Rosaries."
If John had gotten involved with a case for a reason other than his innate
understanding of the gay world this week, it wouldn't have felt so similar
to "Welcome to New York."
Old story, new twist. Is that too much to ask for?
-Alan
Alan Sepinwall
Joseph DeMartino <jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>John I. was primarily apologizing for watching the interview through the
>one-way glass in the adjoining room, not simply for involving himself in
>the case - and especially for doing so without telling Andy.
Oh, I got that. That was definitely outside of protocol. I was just using
that as a transition to bring up the parallels between this case and the
one from "Welcome to New York."
-Alan
Matthew Leingang
probably because the guy's acting was so poor it was hilarious.
Did anyone else do a double-take when Justin talked about being forced
to put his "thing" in Randy while the DOA took pictures? Apparently you
can call someone a "Grade A prick" on TV but you can't use the word to
mean what it actually means. Gotta love those Standards & Practices people.
--Matt
(remove the digits to email me)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Leingang http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~leingang
Rutgers University lein...@math.rutgers.edu
Department of Mathematics "This signature needs no quote."
Mark W. Schumann
Marc Dashevsky <m_...@world.std.com> wrote:
>sepi...@force.stwing.upenn.edu says in article
><b7ift7$2...@force.stwing.upenn.edu>:
>> The bit at the beginning where Rita, Connie and Andy all thought John
>> was saying "Die, you dumb bitch" was very funny, by the way.
>I didn't laugh. It struck me as being so contrived. There's
>no way they'd ever think John was referring to Rita.
Of course it's implausible that John was referring to Rita, but it's
enough to make everyone go "huh?" for a second. It rang true for
me, that momentary confusion.
Art Vandelay
> A "human" lie-detector test was administered by George Reeves as
> Clark Kent. In his reporter guise, he held the wrist of a
> wrongly-convicted man on death row in the old Superman television
> series.
It would have been funny (and very Greg-like) for Medavoy to have credited
seeing the Superman rerun on Nick or TV Land and being inspired.
^^^^^^
"Art is often hailed as the grandest expression of human spirit, but we know
now ... that the grandest expression of human spirit is whatever it takes for a
man or woman to rush back into a burning building to save more people."
Amanda Wilson
>You might say that they're stereotypes,
They are. What I didn't say is that stereotypes aren't based in truth.
>I've met a
>half-dozen real-life versions of Justin, Remy, etc. in my travels
A whole half-dozen? Ever met any who don't fit the stereotypes? ;)
> John addresses Stokes's most
>immediate concerns. And he does so using concrete examples that Stokes
>has observed and can understand - the job, Andy - rather than
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what I said was wouldn't he *also* mention how great his
life is with an accepting family? Of course he would, since Marine boy has a
*father* who's a Marine. Hardly an "abstraction."
Amanda
Fred B. Young Jr.
Userb3 wrote:
> s
>
> > WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
>
> A great song, btw.
Maybe, though I preferred "Cisco Kid" and "Low Rider". :)
--
Fred B. Young Jr.
trans...@mindspring.com
http://www.geocities.com/transitfan/
**note--when replying, remove the "_nospam" from my e-mail address**
Joseph DeMartino
life is with an accepting family? Of course he would, since Marine boy
has a
*father* who's a Marine. Hardly an "abstraction." <
No, not *necessarily*. You seem to think the writing here is somehow
inauthentic because John doesn't react the way you would, or think he
should, and doesn't mention everything you want to see mentioned. And I
didn't say the marine's family was an abstraction, I said that *John's*
family would be an abstraction *to the marine* - who obviously had no
exposure to them. (Besides, John and his father more-or-less agreed to
put the matter of John's sexuality aside during the brief interval
before the father's death. They never really "settled" it and John's
father never really "accepted" it. Nor do we ever really see what
John's relationship with his sister is like - except that they don't
seem to be especially close, since we rarely hear about her. So there
doesn't seem to be much in the way of a worthwhile example here.)
There is also the simple mechanics of TV to consider here. You've got
42 minutes or so of screen time, and have to deduct time for titles,
transition shots and other things. You can't give John a five minute
soliliquy here, so you hit what you absolutely need to get the emotional
point across.
Regards,
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
I loved your description of Justin. Eddie Izzard, indeed. <g>
Regards,
Joe
homerr..2.03k
Alan Sepinwall wrote in message ...
>NYPD Blue Summary/Review by Amanda Wilson (pue...@aol.com) & Alan
>Sepinwall (sepi...@stwing.org)
>
>"Marine Life"
>Season 10, Episode 18
>4/15/03
>
<A second interview with Natalia yields no information, so the cops
<bring in Roy's brother Kurt, who has a minor rap sheet and a drug
<history that has fried his brain enough to make him slow-witted.
Can somebody point out the shrewd detective work which led to this poor
schlump being brought in in the first place?? I missed it somehow.
homerr..
Elaine
Wow - speaking of fried brains - I'm trying to remember. I think it
happened because they began to suspect the husband - especially after
finding out about the disappearance of his first mail order bride - so they
brought in the brother - hoping to get something from him that would point
to the husband.
Elaine
homerr..2.03k
Eric Dreher <~ericd~@cox.net> wrote in message ...
>
>A "human" lie-detector test was administered by George Reeves as
>Clark Kent. In his reporter guise, he held the wrist of a
>wrongly-convicted man on death row in the old Superman television
>series.
I remember holding the breast of a date in high school, and knowing
she was lying about not wanting to go all the way.
superhomerr..
homerr..2.03k
Art Vandelay wrote in message
<20030416172835...@mb-m11.news.cs.com>...
>
>> A "human" lie-detector test was administered by George Reeves as
>> Clark Kent. In his reporter guise, he held the wrist of a
>> wrongly-convicted man on death row in the old Superman television
>> series.
>
>It would have been funny (and very Greg-like) for Medavoy to have credited
>seeing the Superman rerun on Nick or TV Land and being inspired.
For the character development they've given him, this wouldn't be so
implausible for his off-duty activities.
homerr..
Elaine
Alan wrote:
> If you want to get technical, Andy
> asked for John's assistance in that episode, while John didn't wait
> for an invitation here, but there were enough parallels between the
> two stories to be distracting.
Like others - I saw that as John apologizing for watching the interview - not
for putting in his two cents - and - remembering how Andy reacted when Rita
watched an interview in her first episode without him knowing she was out
there - I can see why anybody would tread carefully.
> That said, the scenes with John were the strongest of an A-story that
> was otherwise all over the map. Like I said, Bill Brochtrup is a fine
> actor, and he brought real conviction to this story; the last scene
> in the cages was genuinely moving.
I was also glad to see Rocco Sisto - a fine New York stage actor - getting
some wider exposure as Remy and playing a character so completely different
from the last time I saw him. Any Sopranos fans out there might recognize him
as young Junior Soprano in some of the flashbacks.
> MAIL ORDER MUDER
> AMANDA: The highlight here, of course, was Greg's human lie detector
> stunt. Loved it. He's got a whole pack of these things to his credit,
> and he does them so well. Other than that, this story was kind of a
> yawner. Not much in the way of interesting facts, and there was
> hardly any detective work. I kept wondering why they weren't talking
> to the victim. (They did mention it once, but we didn't see it.)
Good points. And the human lie detector was a highlight in terms of reminding
us that Greg has some ingenuity - and for the sheer humor of it - but I kept
thinking if the brother had been the killer - no way that confession stands up
in court.
> WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?
> AMANDA:
<snip>
> What does she do? She bites his head off.
<snip>
> ALAN: I didn't read it quite the same way. I'm not Rita's biggest
> fan, but I think she had a point.
I'm with Alan on this one. I didn't think she bit his head off. I thought
she was being honest - and I agree with her that - under the circumstances -
the "let's be friends" line is a little insulting. Actually, however much a
person may hope for that, it may be a little insulting under any breaking up
circumstances. And it seemed to me that John was just mouthing platitudes
there. He doesn't want to be friends - at the moment, at least - he's proved
that by not allowing her to share part of what he has been going through. He
just wants to be sure she doesn't throw a tantrum at work - and thinking she
might do that after knowing her for the length of time he has and as well as
he has IS insulting.
> CONNIE DEAREST
> AMANDA: Dennis Franz blew me away in the final scene. He said
> nothing while standing there watching Theo take "mommy" over to the
> cookie table, but what I heard him saying inside his head with a
> broken voice was, "Oh, Sylvia, I do miss you. Is this all OK with
> you?" I didn't get that he was doubting his arrangement with Connie
> or his feelings for her (too bad), but rather he was just feeling
> mournful over letting Sylvia go so completely. It's as if he's
> confronting a new milestone in his grieving process and is sort of
> struggling with it. I hope that's what was intended--it was very
> touching.
Yeah, I got that too - as well as a lot of other layers - as he looked around
at all the happy couples. Not just a milestone in his grieving process but in
his evolving relationship with Connie. I could see him missing Sylvia but
also being grateful he has Connie and thinking about where they're going from
here.
> ALAN: Okay, this one bugged me. Theo's confusion is a genuine blended
> family issue, but it seemed to come out of nowhere, especially when
> Theo called Connie "Mommy" at the end. It's just not plausible that
> he's been referring to her as his mother in school long enough to
> confuse the teacher, yet he hasn't done it once in front of Connie or
> Andy before now.
I don't think that Andy's so uncomfortable with it when Theo does it at home -
after all, it is the issue that kind of got Andy and Connie together finally
last season. I think he just gets weird about other people knowing anything
about it.
> *So it's the day after John and Rita split, right? And, therefore, the
> day after last week's episode? Shouldn't Baldwin still be somewhat out of
> sorts over killing that kid ?
Well, nobody mentioned it, but he did seem a bit less his usual impassive self
in his early scenes. I read into it, perhaps wrongly, the after-effects of
the prior episode.
> *Cat Call: Connie's hair looked fabulous. PJohn needs a hair cut.
Yes, I'm glad to see Connie looking a bit more put together. Re: PJohn -
never gonna happen but I'd love to see Andy cut his hair for a change.
> Thanks for reading,
> Amanda & Alan
Thanks for writing.
Elaine
Userb3
news:3E9E1A00...@writetrack-nyc.com:
> He doesn't want to be friends - at the moment, at least - he's proved
> that by not allowing her to share part of what he has been going
> through.
Please. Life's tough enough without having an obligation to share every bit
of your inner pain and turmoil with your friends. Don't you have any
friends you simply enjoy being around? What kind of friend demands someone
else go through some sort of maudlin exercise in shared grief to prove the
friendship exists?
UncleDave
"Userb3" <use...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns935F76CDCC9...@207.14.113.17...
True enough, but I don't feel we have to go this deep with Andy and his
hangup. The paranoids are obviously out to get him. It is one of his
quirks that things that *shouldn't* bother a normal person bother him quite
deeply. For example, there was a time when he would be very secretive about
PhoneJohn cutting his hair -- didn't want to be seen getting his hair cut by
a gay guy. Another example: when he started wearing glasses for reading.
Great scene with him and Simone (who was his brand new partner at the time).
Need I go on?
You just want to grab him by what littel hair he has left and tell him --
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!!
--- Uncle Dave
kincaid
> of drug dealer/murderer Jerry Wells, who was convicted several
> years ago largely on the testimony of a witness who has since
> recanted. Valerie tries to convince the judge that Wells' people
> scared the witness into changing her story, but Wells' original
> sentence is vacated and he's released on bail pending a new trial.
> Before he leaves the courtroom, Wells announces that he doesn't
> blame Valerie for his conviction and holds no hard feelings
> against her; as the judge objects, Wells' lawyer hustles his
> client out of the room.
>
What went down in the courtroom was a crock. Recantation by a witness is
generally not grounds for overturning a verdict -- for precisely the
reason Val gave -- and certainly not something the judge is "forced" to
do against her better judgment.
kincaid
Elaine
Userb3 wrote:
> Please. Life's tough enough without having an obligation to share every bit
> of your inner pain and turmoil with your friends. Don't you have any
> friends you simply enjoy being around? What kind of friend demands someone
> else go through some sort of maudlin exercise in shared grief to prove the
> friendship exists?
Yes, of course, I have friends like that. However, this wasn't a case of
"share every bit of your inner pain and turmoil with your friends." This was
Junior avoiding his lover (after, if you remember, his own big song and dance
about how he was there for her after her ex was killed) like she had the plague
at a time when people in committed relationships turn to each other. And,
apparently, it wasn't just that he couldn't or wouldn't talk about his father -
it was that he couldn't or wouldn't talk about anything for an extended period
of time. It's fine to say "I need some space" - it's a little immature to run
away and hide. And the "let's be friends" cliche is also a sign of
immaturity. Which is okay as TV drama because it's one of the things that
makes Junior a different character from the others.
Oh - and BTW - life would probably be a lot less tough on you guys if you
didn't insist on imitating clams all the time.
Elaine
Userb3
news:3E9EA8F4...@writetrack-nyc.com:
>
>
> Userb3 wrote:
>
>> Please. Life's tough enough without having an obligation to share
>> every bit of your inner pain and turmoil with your friends. Don't you
>> have any friends you simply enjoy being around? What kind of friend
>> demands someone else go through some sort of maudlin exercise in
>> shared grief to prove the friendship exists?
>
> Yes, of course, I have friends like that. However, this wasn't a case
> of "share every bit of your inner pain and turmoil with your friends."
> This was Junior avoiding his lover (after, if you remember, his own
> big song and dance about how he was there for her after her ex was
> killed) like she had the plague at a time when people in committed
> relationships turn to each other.
In your paradigm, people in committed relationships all handle stress and
pain the same? Sharing grief on a particular schedule is a requirement?
> And, apparently, it wasn't just
> that he couldn't or wouldn't talk about his father - it was that he
> couldn't or wouldn't talk about anything for an extended period of
> time.
You've never been depressed?
> It's fine to say "I need some space" - it's a little immature
> to run away and hide.
He didn't run away and hide. He came back to work early because he wanted
something to distract him . Seems like she could have been a little
understanding and gioven him room. His father died and she's worried about
her needs?
> And the "let's be friends" cliche is also a
> sign of immaturity.
Explain. It seems exactly the opposite to me. A few of my closest friends
are exes. The romance didn't work out, but we still had/have a lot in
common. Seems immature to assume that we can't be friends simply because we
can't be lovers.
> Oh - and BTW - life would probably be a lot less tough on you guys if
> you didn't insist on imitating clams all the time.
How's Jr. imitating a clam? He made his feelings pretty clear.
Userb3 (currently emoting)
buck129
I think everybody is over-analyzing this. I am with Rita on this one.
Clark breaks up with her. The next day he brings out the cliche "I
hope we can still be friends". Gee John, that's real big of you.
Nobody wants to hear that crap the next day. Simple as that.
cb
Bard7696
> Clark breaks up with her. The next day he brings out the cliche "I
>hope we can still be friends".
She had me when she said it was naive. But then she said it was insulting.
THIS from the woman whose only concern when John was facing a soliciting a
prostitution charge was how it made HER look, ignoring how John was trying to
help his dad.
THIS from the woman who wouldn't shut her flipping yap when John was giving her
all kinds of non-verbal clues that he didn't want to talk about his dad's
death.
Man, she pisses me off. Can we make a request for her to be Lesniaked?
Kurt Ridder
> I think everybody is over-analyzing this. I am with Rita on this one.
Clark breaks up with her. The next day he brings out the cliche "I hope we
can still be friends". Gee John, that's real big of you. Nobody wants to
hear that crap the next day. Simple as that.
The way I see it, Clark didn't break up with her -- he just put it into
words and made it official. The break happened when he said "it's the way I
handle things" and she replied "not if you want to be with me". Bam! He
just put a face on it at that point.
Kurt Ridder
SueHerker
> A check of calls to Forrest's apartment turns up the number of Justin
> Tangier, who happens to be the lead singer of the aforementioned
> Spikes. Rita and Connie bring in Justin, who looks like Eddie
Just had a chance to read the review for Marine Life. So glad to see
I wasn't the only one that thought Andy Powers was looking like Eddie
Izzard's younger brother! Great casting! Couldn't ask for anything
more current, could you? Eddie Izzard is finally waking up the
American audiences to some real comedy - and sooooo sexie while doing
it. Thanks casting people!! :)
Susan
Joseph DeMartino
comedy
Oh, come now. Why just in the last year we've had Jacques Chirac,
Dominique deVillepin, Gerhard Schroeder and the Iraqi Information
Minister - it isn't like we've been starving for stand-up comedians from
overseas.
Regards,
Joe
Userb3
news:b7mt7u$2iv34$1...@ID-95784.news.dfncis.de:
> The way I see it, Clark didn't break up with her -- he just put it
> into words and made it official. The break happened when he said
> "it's the way I handle things" and she replied "not if you want to be
> with me". Bam! He just put a face on it at that point.
What he said.
Elaine
> In your paradigm, people in committed relationships all handle stress and
> pain the same? Sharing grief on a particular schedule is a requirement?
I have a paradigm? Cool! But, seriously, no. However, intervention is
sometimes a valid tactic.
> > And, apparently, it wasn't just
> > that he couldn't or wouldn't talk about his father - it was that he
> > couldn't or wouldn't talk about anything for an extended period of
> > time.
>
> You've never been depressed?
Yes. And grateful to and for the people who would not take "I don't want to
talk about it" for an answer.
> He didn't run away and hide. He came back to work early because he wanted
> something to distract him . Seems like she could have been a little
> understanding and gioven him room. His father died and she's worried about
> her needs?
There was dialogue about how he hadn't spoken to her in a number of days and
hadn't returned her phone calls. IMO, that's hiding. On a case by case basis,
with people you love, I think you've got to decide whether you let them hide
for a while or whether you push. Rita chose to push. And that was that. Or
not - we've apparently got Baldwin and Valerie back together again, now - so
possibly Rita and John will reunite as well. I don't really care enough about
them either way. And - other than playing devil's advocate - I don't know that
I'm all that firmly on Rita's side - except for the "let's be friends" stuff.
> > And the "let's be friends" cliche is also a
> > sign of immaturity.
>
> Explain. It seems exactly the opposite to me. A few of my closest friends
> are exes. The romance didn't work out, but we still had/have a lot in
> common. Seems immature to assume that we can't be friends simply because we
> can't be lovers.
It's the trotting out of the cliche and/or thinking it needs to be trotted out
that signals immaturity to me. The mature attitude, in my book, is just as you
suggest - assume that if we cared enough to be lovers, then we care enough to
be friends, and just act like that..
> > Oh - and BTW - life would probably be a lot less tough on you guys if
> > you didn't insist on imitating clams all the time.
>
> How's Jr. imitating a clam? He made his feelings pretty clear.
Finally.
Elaine
Elaine
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:11:59 GMT, Elaine <esm...@writetrack-nyc.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Oh - and BTW - life would probably be a lot less tough on you guys if you
> >didn't insist on imitating clams all the time.
>
> I don't want to talk about it.
LOL.
Going into the lightning round - Eric, homerr, Art Vandelay, TC and Kurt are
tied for line of the week.
Stay tuned.
Elaine
Paul
recognize him
Naw, I recognized him from TNG. But then, I don't get HBO.
buck129
> The way I see it, Clark didn't break up with her -- he just put it into
> words and made it official. The break happened when he said "it's the way I
> handle things" and she replied "not if you want to be with me". Bam! He
> just put a face on it at that point.
>
> Kurt Ridder
Are you serious? I don't mean that in a negative way. I really am
curious if other people agree with you that "Clark didn't break up
with her". I thought it was obvious, but hey I've been wrong before.
You mention her saying "not if you want to be with me" but she follows
that with "and I get the feeling you don't". Clark at least implies
he agrees with the last part and says its over.
cb
SueHerker
LOL!! You're right! And they can't even jump in high heels without
falling down I'll bethca! Nor would they be able to apply eye make-up
half as well and look as nice as Eddie I. (although he's quite
beautiful without make-up). Well done! I think I fancy you! as Mr.
Izzard would say. :-)
Sue
Kurt Ridder
>> The way I see it, Clark didn't break up with her -- he just put it into
words and made it official. The break happened when he said "it's the way I
handle things" and she replied "not if you want to be with me". Bam! He
just put a face on it at that point.
buck129 wrote:
> Are you serious? I don't mean that in a negative way. I really am
curious if other people agree with you that "Clark didn't break up with
her". I thought it was obvious, but hey I've been wrong before. You
mention her saying "not if you want to be with me" but she follows that with
"and I get the feeling you don't". Clark at least implies he agrees with
the last part and says its over.
Yep, serious. He made a definitive statement: "It's the way I handle
things." She follows with a definitive statement: "Not if you want to be
with me." No middle ground there, as I see it, so I'd say she closed the
door then and there. Like I said, he just made it official. I suppose he
could have reopened the door and said he'd "change" for her, but he opted to
leave it closed, THANK GOD!
Kurt Ridder
Who's Been Dumped & Knows....
Art Vandelay
Kurt Ridder wrote:
>> The way I see it, Clark didn't break up with her -- he just put it into
buck129 wrote:
> Are you serious? I don't mean that in a negative way. I really am
curious if other people agree with you...[SNIP]
I'd say the break-up was fairly mutual
^^^^^^
"Art is often hailed as the grandest expression of human spirit, but we know
now ... that the grandest expression of human spirit is whatever it takes for a
man or woman to rush back into a burning building to save more people."
Seku
"Joseph DeMartino" <jdem...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:oIEna.31549$Cf3....@fe02.atl2.webusenet.com...
Brian Baresch
>> words and made it official. The break happened when he said "it's the way I
>> handle things" and she replied "not if you want to be with me". Bam! He
>> just put a face on it at that point.
>>
>> Kurt Ridder
>
>Are you serious? I don't mean that in a negative way. I really am
>curious if other people agree with you that "Clark didn't break up
>with her".
I don't agree. Clark had a choice of saying "OK, let's work this out,
because I do want to be with you." He didn't.
--
Brian P. Baresch
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Professional editing and proofreading
If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill
Kurt Ridder
> I don't agree. Clark had a choice of saying "OK, let's work this out,
because I do want to be with you." He didn't.
That's what I said in another post. But *she* shut the door -- he left it
closed.
Kurt Ridder
Userb3
news:20030419001425...@mb-m15.news.cs.com:
> I'd say the break-up was fairly mutual
I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player. I suppose
since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
homerr..2.03k
Userb3 wrote in message ...
Only if you 'hired' the guitar player...
homerr..
Joseph DeMartino
suppose
> since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
Surely that's nothing to fret about.
<runs away>
<g>
Joe
Kurt Ridder
> I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player.
A song for you, Userb3, written by Lowell George (RIP) and made famous by
Little Feat (note the 3rd verse):
I've seen the bright lights of Memphis
And the Commodore Hotel
And underneath a street lamp I met a Southern belle
Well she took me to the river, where she cast her spell
And in that Southern moonlight, she sang a song so well
If you'll be my Dixie chicken, I'll be your Tennessee lamb
And we can walk together down in Dixieland
Down in Dixieland
Well we made all the hot spots. My money flowed like wine
Then that low down Southern whiskey began to fog my mind
And I don't remember church bells or the money I put down
On the white picket fence and boardwalk of the house at the edge of town
But boy do I remember the strain of her refrain
The nights we spent together, and the way she called my name
If you'll be my Dixie chicken, I'll be your Tennessee lamb
And we can walk together down in Dixieland
Down in Dixieland
Well it's been a year since she ran away
Yes that guitar player sure could play
She always liked to sing along
She's always handy with a song
Then one night in the lobby of the Commodore Hotel
I chanced to meet a bartender who said he knew her well
And as he handed me a drink he began to hum a song
And all the boys there, at the bar, began to sign along
If you'll be my Dixie chicken, I'll be your Tennessee lamb
And we can walk together down in Dixieland
Down in Dixieland
Kurt Ridder
homerr..2.03k
Joseph DeMartino wrote in message ...
>> I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player. I
>suppose
>> since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
>
>Surely that's nothing to fret about.
Don't pick on him.. he sounds strung out.
homerr..
Kurt Ridder
>>> I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player. I suppose
since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
Joseph DeMartino wrote:
>> Surely that's nothing to fret about.
homerr.. wrote:
> Don't pick on him.. he sounds strung out.
He's probably tuning you out anyway. That, or he'll let you slide.
Kurt Ridder
Art Vandelay
<<<<To pluck out a memory such as that strikes a bad chord,
and amplifies the poor guys pain. Apparently she was
a pick-up for the player, and a sounding board for an easy line.
Was her name Peg?>>
Not sure, but I'll bet she's a pain in the neck.
Art Vandelay
Joseph DeMartino wrote in message ...
>> I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player. I
>suppose
>> since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
My first wife ran off with my best friend. I never met the guy, but I
certainly consider him my best friend.
homerr..2.03k
Eric Dreher <~ericd~@cox.net> wrote in message
<86u3avga26932cje4...@4ax.com>...
>and amplifies the poor guys pain. Apparently she was
>a pick-up for the player, and a sounding board for
>an easy line.
>
>Was her name Peg?
Don't know her name, but she was a hardbody.. with nice curves. Had a long
neck like a Nieman-Marcus model.
homerr..
Userb3
$28....@fe07.atl2.webusenet.com:
>> I remember when my first wife ran off with the guitar player. I
> suppose
>> since I "let" her go, it was a mutual breakup.
>
> Surely that's nothing to fret about.
I wasn't going to let her string me along.
Amanda Wilson
>And we can walk together down in Dixieland
>Down in Dixieland
I wondered where Dave Matthews got that...
Amanda
Amanda Wilson
>inauthentic because John doesn't react the way you would, or think he
>should, and doesn't mention everything you want to see mentioned.
Jesus pal, you read *way* too much into this shit. I never said that or
anything close to it.
And you're really reaching defending your new position on the family angle of
John's speech, but whatever.
>There is also the simple mechanics of TV to consider here.
Yeah, I don't know shit about that....
> You've got
>42 minutes or so of screen time, and have to deduct time for titles,
>transition shots and other things. You can't give John a five minute
>soliliquy here, so you hit what you absolutely need to get the emotional
>point across.
And I think they missed the mark, as I mentioned before. I could also show you
at least five minutes of bullshit they could have cut out, but why bother?
Amanda