Where do NYPD Detective squad commanders come from?
Rich Rostrom
It's been carefully explained here that NYPD Detectives
are outside the main 'line of command' in the department.
They get extra status and more pay
than patrol officers of the equivalent rank.
Detectives, especially 1st Grade Detectives, make
as much pay as a lieutenant.
A detective squad is commanded by a lieutenant.
A lieutenant must be promoted to that rank from
sergeant.
A detective can become a sergeant, but one who
does so must return to uniformed status and
patrol duty, and loses the extra status and pay
of a detective. Thus veteran detectives,
especially 1st Grade, almost never seek promotion
to sergeant.
OK. What, then, is the typical career path that
leads to being a lieutenant in command of a
detective squad?
Because it looks to me like the lieutenants
who are commanders of detective squads would
almost never be former detectives - and those
who were would be non-veteran, non-First Grade
detectives who spent a relatively short time
as detectives before moving to sergeant. The
really good committed detectives would never
become squad commanders. There could be a
perception that squad commanders were second
raters.
--
Nothing which was ever expressed originally in the English language resembles,
except in the most distant way, the thought of Plotinus, or Hegel, or Foucault.
I take this to be enormously to the credit of our language. -- David Stove
Ross Mac
"Rich Rostrom" <rrostrom.2...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:rrostrom.21stcentury-...@news.isp.giganews.com...
I have pondered this one myself and all I could come up with was a career
path to Captain.....Ross (my .02)
LRod
<rrostrom.2...@rcn.com> wrote:
>A detective can become a sergeant, but one who
>does so must return to uniformed status and
>patrol duty, and loses the extra status and pay
>of a detective. Thus veteran detectives,
>especially 1st Grade, almost never seek promotion
>to sergeant.
>
>OK. What, then, is the typical career path that
>leads to being a lieutenant in command of a
>detective squad?
>
>Because it looks to me like the lieutenants
>who are commanders of detective squads would
>almost never be former detectives - and those
>who were would be non-veteran, non-First Grade
>detectives who spent a relatively short time
>as detectives before moving to sergeant. The
>really good committed detectives would never
>become squad commanders. There could be a
>perception that squad commanders were second
>raters.
I am not a cop nor do I play one on TV. However, in the job I did do
for thirty years (air traffic control) there were characteristics that
I observed that I think probably mirror the NYPD scenarios you
describe.
Most of us liked working traffic and that was good enough for a
career. My experience was that those seeking management started
working toward that track at a relatively early point in their
careers. It could have been for any number of reasons; perceived
prestige, pure ambition, or in many cases an inability to function
well as a controller or fear of the job.
Of course there were some who turned to the management track later in
their careers for the monetary impact both at their regular salary and
in retirement.
Of course there was no "first grade" issue, although maybe in a way,
there was. ATC facilities were grouped into levels based on traffic
counts. There were three levels of ARTCCs or centers, and five levels
of towers. The top three tower levels were the same as the three
center levels. Sometimes a Level III center guy or Level V tower guy
(same pay) would take a management job at a Level I center or Level
III tower (same pay) or even a Level II tower to get into the
management track.
Once you're in the track, advancing to supervisory grades, even if
it's only first level positions, is much easier. Thus it wouldn't be
all that hard to move from a first line supervisor in a Level II tower
to a first or even second line supervisor in a Level IV or V tower.
The first salary hit at the Level II would be more than made up in a
relatively short time when moving back up to a higher level facility.
Of course cost of living in a smaller facility was almost assuredly
lower in the smaller facility, which helped mitigate the bite.
But I digress. My point is that those who are interested in the
management track will often take the pay cut to do it. In ATC, some of
it can be made up by working holidays. It was always a hoot to come in
on a holiday and see twice or three times the usual number of
supervisors stumbling all over each other.
Now, back to the NYPD. Remember that First Grade Detectives are rare.
I don't recall the number that someone quoted here several months ago,
but in the entire, citywide department, it seems there were only a
couple of hundred.
>Because it looks to me like the lieutenants
>who are commanders of detective squads would
>almost never be former detectives...
There probably are quite a few detectives, but there would probably be
just as many that came from other bureaus, as we've seen in Blue. Most
managers feel that there is nothing particularly necessary about
experience in a field in order to manage workers in that field.
>...and those who were would be non-veteran, non-First
>Grade detectives...
Not all that many First Grades to go around.
>...who spent a relatively short time as detectives
>before moving to sergeant.
Not necessarily, but there are a lot of first line supervisors
(sergeants) who have found their perfect spot in life at that level
(or highest spot of competence), so not all are going to be
interessted in liutenant positions anyway.
>The really good committed detectives would never
>become squad commanders.
That was often my experience, and my point exactly. ATC is the world's
greatest video game. Why chuck that for a job with greater headaches,
more paperwork, and less apparent satisfaction?
>There could be a perception that squad commanders were second
>raters.
Again, my experience. See points above about inability to function
well as a controller and about fear of the job.
From what I saw in my thirty years, Andy has made a decision that he
needs to get in the management track and high enough in it for the
increase in annuity at retirement.
It is very possible that all that base First Grade pay may not count
as much toward retirement as the base management pay. At retirement I
had been topped out (Step 10) in my grade for several years. If I had
gone to management grade, which would have been a pay bump to begin
with, I could also have gotten at least one, maybe two step increases
before retirement, whcih would have amounted to as much as 30% more in
my retirement check.
- -
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
black...@aol.com
make sure that nobody breaks the law and that the guy's show up to
work? I've rarely seen the squad commander suggest angle's to use in
interrogation and not otherwise tell the detective's how to do there
job? Don't need to have been a detective to do that. Isn't the
commander more of a supervisor and the ADA more of their real boss ?
Rich Rostrom
>On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 02:49:34 -0600, Rich Rostrom
><rrostrom.2...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>
>>OK. What, then, is the typical career path that
>>leads to being a lieutenant in command of a
>>detective squad?
>I am not a cop nor do I play one on TV. However, in the job I did do
>for thirty years (air traffic control) there were characteristics that
>I observed that I think probably mirror the NYPD scenarios you
>describe...
>
>From what I saw in my thirty years, Andy has made a decision that he
>needs to get in the management track and high enough in it for the
>increase in annuity at retirement.
Thanks for the detailed answer!