What do you well-educated folks think?
Tim
I think THE INTERVIEW would be a good one. I would also recommend FOR THE
GOOD OF THE OUTFIT (Season 2), THE KIDS (4), DELUGE (4) and GIVE 'EM HELL
HAWKEYE (10). These episodes represent portions of the Korean War by showing
some of the horror outside the 4077th.
--
Brad
Bye,
Thomas
> It shows the reality of war, but the language
>could be a bit *rough* for a parochial middle school.
>
>What do you well-educated folks think?
>
The others who responded to your post mentioned the best episodes to show your
students. Especially The Interview.
You mention that the language could be rough for a parochial middle school. As
compared to war itself? Language would come in second place to war. If you're
going to teach your students about the Korean Conflict, then the language
should not be a factor.
MASH didn't really use too much "off color" language but I'm pretty certain
that in reality, the people did.
What's rougher...watching you buddies get killed right in front of you or
someone using foul language?
Tim, there's nothing rougher than war. Nothing rougher than killing and getting
killed.
Just my opinion.
Eddie
Why not pick a few 10 minute clips to show them- maybe not on the same day, but
as they pertain to your topic? You could start each lesson with a MASH clip.
I'll second the vote for Deluge. Besides driving home the point of the many
casualties, the old news clips give a good percpective on what was happening
on the American scene during that era.
It always disturbed me that Hawkeye et al never used foul language in their
day to day routine at the 4077th, not even in surgery (even when trying to
find the missing pin to a grenade in O.R.), yet as soon as Clete and his
film crew turned up, they found the need to use expletives.
--
Brad
Email: chocola...@hotmail.com
Eddie, I agree with you one hundred percent. But this is a
church-affilliated, faith-based school. I agree, the "saltier comments have
been deleted". However, two damn's and a hell can make a difference. At
this age, what you say in the classroom automatically goes straight to Mom
and Dad. All it takes is one irate parent to ruin your day. I also just
started there a month ago and do not want to rock the boat at all.
Again, we are in complete agreement Eddie, but this is one stange situation.
I am glad all of us are putting our heads together.
Tim
In that case, since you are in the employ of a cartel that pushes the
Greatest Lie in World History, i would suggest the episode "The Life You Save,"
where Winchester's obsession of a post-mortal existence is realised as folly
when he discovers that his patient @ an aid station is having no paranormal
experience as he lies dying. Showing this broadcast my enlighten those
religiously-oppressed young minds, too, to logically conclude that one day they
will also see how this is the only plain of existence for humanity.
That's Entertainment
Yours, etc.,
+<:-P <--Pope Nick, Executive Secular Consultant To the Swiss Navy
Actually, the episode proved nothing.
--
Brad
Email: chocola...@hotmail.com
| >this is a church-affilliated, faith-based school.
|
| In that case, since you are in the employ of a cartel that pushes the
| Greatest Lie in World History, i would suggest the episode "The Life You Save,"
| where Winchester's obsession of a post-mortal existence is realised as folly
| when he discovers that his patient @ an aid station is having no paranormal
| experience as he lies dying. Showing this broadcast my enlighten those
| religiously-oppressed young minds, too, to logically conclude that one day they
| will also see how this is the only plain of existence for humanity.
|
| That's Entertainment
|
Now, that was funny!
--
-Elf-
Mail: e...@elf.tc URL: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~elf/ IRC: Elf/Alv
"We've heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the
Complete Works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is
not true." - Robert Wilensky
>But this is a
>church-affilliated, faith-based school.
Understood.
> All it takes is one irate parent to ruin your day. I also just
>started there a month ago and do not want to rock the boat at all.
Double understood!
>Again, we are in complete agreement Eddie, but this is one stange situation.
>I am glad all of us are putting our heads together.
>
I agree. A strange situation. Look at it this way: The kids can watch MASH on
TV. Why would it be different in a classroom?
I remember when I was that age in school. One day the teacher said the word
"screwed" and wasn't talking about building something that needs screws. That
was a surprise for sure. However, that was many years ago. With what's said on
TV these days with shows like NYPD Blue, even the Simpsons (which I watch all
the time) MASH seems less of a "threat" with racy language.
I would think that The Interview is perfect for your class. The "saltier"
comments aren't there and it reflects feelings about a situation that nobody
there has any control over. And, like I said, they show it on TV and when it
first aired, it couldn't have been that bad as the standards were higher back
then. I'd also think that the parents of these kids would certainly understand.
Boy, war sucks in every single aspect, doesn't it?
I'd hope the parents would understand, especially since MASH would be something
that could educate their kids, without them truly realizing it was
"educational" and tuning it out. However, don't be so sure. My history teacher
junior year of HS showed a movie where a (as far as I can recall) man got his
arms and legs shot off in WW I (I do not recall the title of the movie any
longer). The movie showed what it was probably like for many veterans of WW I.
It was a chilling film, but it did drive home the point of the horror of WW I
that we'd read about in the textbook. Unfortunately, after he'd shown the first
part of the movie, a parent of somebody in the class complained and that was
the end of that. As chilling as it was, we were quite dissapointed.
CJ
>I am teaching about the Korean War next week in my class.
Tim, here's what I think about you teaching your students about the KW: I think
it's GREAT! Considering that this has been dubbed "The Forgotten War" disturbs
me. How in the world can anyone "forget" about a war?
Anyway you choose to enlighten your students is fine. I've learned more about
the KW from MASH than I did in school. The subject was skimmed over and was
never taught to the level of WW I or WW II.
Now that I have a teenager in high school, I find that still holding true. My
daughter asks me about the WW's and Viet Nam but not once has she ever asked
about the Korean War. A sad state of affairs.
Whatever your decision will be to teach your students will be just fine. With
or without questionable language.
: T.S. Miller <tsmi...@ntrnet.net> wrote in message
Add "Yessir, That's Our Baby" to that list for a sad forgotten chapter of
the war.
The Other Brad
I agree! So many people mix the Korean War up with Vietnam or skip it all
together. I don't know how, either, a war is forgotten ... especially within
the century when most people that were in it are still alive. We're not even
talking something like the Spanish-American war but one that happened fairly
recently.
I wonder if it's because Hollywood did make as many films about the Korean war
as the WWs or Vietnam. You think? Hollywood's movies do tend to keep
something alive in our memories.
JD
(http://www.suite101.com/join.cfm/326598
Access to the Internet's most comprehensive Web directories with more than
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>I agree! So many people mix the Korean War up with Vietnam or skip it all
>together.
Hi JD, if you think about it, MASH doesn't really help in this situation. As
great a show it still is, it's a blend of both wars. It's set in a KW
background but voices Viet Nam sentiments. It's difficult to seperate the two
but I still say that if you can watch it on TV, (not cable but the free air
channels) then you should be able to watch it in a classroom.
Tim, if you read this post, would it be fair to ask if any of the parents watch
MASH on TV? Maybe you should start with that and see where it takes you. I
fully understand the situation you're in. After all, we here in cyberspace
can't be the only people who love the show. Some of those parents must have
seen it too. I would wonder how they would feel about using an episode to learn
from.
The Interview generally is about anti - war sentiments. That would cover them
all. Except for Frank Burns of course...he loves it there!
Though I respect your opinion I don't think it's very cool to blatantly slam
someone's beliefs like that.
"Brad" <mouse...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:nvIk6.8$v5....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Bingo!
The movie you are probably talking about is "Johnny Got His Gun". This is a
famous novel by Dalton Trumbo (sp?), a noted novelist and blacklisted
screenwriter. It is a classic novel and worthy of any MASH fan's attention.
You can draw a lot of parallels between Hawkeye and the main character in
the book.
Tim
I am going to show either Deluge or portions of The Interview in class. ( I
have them on tape) I am also having a Korean War vet come in to speak (one
of the student's grandfathers). Most of the class (especially the boys)
love to study wars and I believe that since Korea was not only "The
Forgotten War" but also a war that showed the American mindset during the
first half of the Cold War.
It is a pity that the war was ignored (Constant references made to it in
MASH) by the homefront. It is also a legacy of the media that they ignored
it as well. (It is difficult to name more than 5 Korean War movies,
including MASH). But MASH was different in that 1) It is the media
production most people think about the Korean War is mentioned and 2) It is
one of the very few (only??) movies to successfully transistion itself to a
long-running TV series.
Again, thanks for your opinions and I'll let you know how it turned out.
Tim
P.S. Maybe one should be thankful for the syndication cuts because it
takes up less classtime in a forty minute class ;-)
"T.S. Miller" <tsmi...@ntrnet.net> wrote in message
news:61ok6.53$x4.1...@news-reader.ntrnet.net...
Hi Eddie!
Maybe I'm missing something here ... I do that often <G> ... but why is there a
concern about showing MASH to these students? As it's been stated, MASH is on
tv and has been for years so I can't imagine any of the parents not having seen
it. And Religious school or not, the show's time period for its filming is so
long ago that it couldn't possibly have offensive things in it. And if the
parents are aware that the Korean War is being taught, what safer way than with
a comedy/dramedy show? Have the parents voiced any concerns?
Unless they are a religon that is opposed to war and doesn't get involved in
war or politics, I can't see why they would object at all.
Excellent!!! Perhaps this will also teach the kids to seek out oral history
from their grandparents. Our elderly population has so much to teach us, if we
only but ask them. Best of luck - it sounds like you are a very caring,
dedicated teacher. My hat's off to you!
From a former history teacher herself... and now a de-lurked reader of this
newsgroup (which I absolutely love)... yes, I'll buy this round (I read of
that tradition - LOL),
Mary
Yeah, well, since I'm feeling old again, some of us may remember the first time
we heard Archie Bunker's toilet flush on air. It sounds silly now, but it was
a big deal then....
Forbin
Well back in the late 70s I saw a film in the theater (can't recall the title
right now) and some gal was sitting on the toilet in her apt. and I was
shocked! LOL I thought (and still do) it ruined the feeling of it being a
film vs a documentary. I mean, I know and you know what goes on behind those
closed doors ... sounds are quite enough, thank you. LOL
What I find (and always found) so wonderful about live speakers is that it
reinforces that *it did happen* and makes it stay with you much more than a
book, tv or movie piece. Nothing proves something more than one who saw it in
person and lives to speak about it!
I'm sure the students will enjoy this very much.
>I am going to show either Deluge or portions of The Interview in class
Tim, whatever you do, make sure these "films" didn't come from the Tobasco Film
Company!!
If you see anything that looks like a "parrot" SHUT THE THING DOWN! :-)
Eddie
TOTFLMAO!!
Tim
Do you think next time we can get something with Flash Gordon?
You think that's bad. In my science class in eleventh grade my teacher talked
about gas and gave the example of farting. One parent called and chewed him
out.
Mandy
"When all of our feelings and our sins fall away, we are two people in the
middle of an ocean, holding on to each other, knowing happiness as no other
people ever know it."
Adam to Liza on All My Children
I have read that adlibbing was totally taboo on MASH- but in the interview it
was basically all adlib, the cast answering questions as they thought there
characters would. Maybe that had something to do with why the language was a
little "grittier" ???
>Though I respect your opinion I don't think it's very cool to blatantly slam
>someone's beliefs like that.
>
>
ditto.
>I have read that adlibbing was totally taboo on MASH- but in the interview it
>was basically all adlib, the cast answering questions as they thought there
>characters would. Maybe that had something to do with why the language was a
>little "grittier" ???
That's exactly what happened and it's also what made that episode as
outstanding as any episode ever was. Real question and VERY real answers. Why
would someone being interviewed in a real war say anything different? Gritty
language on a television show is much "cleaner"
than the language in the school yard.
>Unless they are a religon that is opposed to war and doesn't get involved in
>war or politics, I can't see why they would object at all.
Hi JD, most religions are against war. I understand Tim's dilema. In a Catholic
School (and no, I'm not Catholic) or a Hebrew School with middleschoolers, Tim
has to keep in mind that while MASH was a comedy poking fun at war and the Army
in general, some of the subject matter might not be appropiate for these kids.
I mean bras on the bulletin board, a still in the sleeping quarters, Hawkeye
trying to "get" every nurse that can walk, getting drunk all the time. It's
stuff like that, that can make for Tim having a bad day!
And what if Margaret DID "leave her behind to science"?
I understand what Tim is up against. I think in a public school, especially
here in NY, showing MASH would be fine. Ever walk in Manhattan and just listen
to the people around you? MASH would be rated G. LOL!
>From a former history teacher herself... and now a de-lurked reader of this
>newsgroup (which I absolutely love)... yes, I'll buy this round (I read of
>that tradition - LOL),
>
>Mary
Hello Mary, nice to have another "on board."
I'll have a Peach Blow Fizz please!
>Do you think next time we can get something with Flash Gordon?
>
George, I know that if I have a bad day, like today, I can count on you to put
a smile on my tired mug!
----------
In article <GWpk6.382$722....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com>, "Brad"
<mouse...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> T.S. Miller <tsmi...@ntrnet.net> wrote in message
> news:61ok6.53$x4.1...@news-reader.ntrnet.net...
>> I am teaching about the Korean War next week in my class. As a die-hard
>> MASH fan, I want to show an episode that represents the war best. I was
>> thinking, the Interview. It shows the reality of war, but the language
>> could be a bit *rough* for a parochial middle school.
>>
>> What do you well-educated folks think?
>>
>> Tim
>
> I think THE INTERVIEW would be a good one. I would also recommend FOR THE
> GOOD OF THE OUTFIT (Season 2), THE KIDS (4), DELUGE (4) and GIVE 'EM HELL
> HAWKEYE (10). These episodes represent portions of the Korean War by showing
> some of the horror outside the 4077th.
>
> --
> Brad
>
> chocola...@hotmail.com
>
>
Just a thought, but what about the ep that's entirely through the eyes of
one of the wounded men coming into the MASH? The title escapes me at the
moment, but it was on FX fairly recently. I would say go with "The
Interview," though, from what I've seen of it (only an on-line transcript
and excerpts from the later Clete Roberts episode), it's a great episode,
and would give them an idea of what the war was about. Very cool thought,
using MASH to teach the Korean War. I wish I'd had a teacher do that,
considering that we usually just rushed through it if we got to it at all.
Still, we did watch Glory when we studied the US Civil War, and several
films in government class in high school (including Dead Man Walking during
a debate about the death penalty), and I always found that it really helped
things stick with me, besides making them seem more real, somehow.
-Allison
Thanks Allison,
I believe the episode you're thinking of is Point of View. I thought about
that too, but I thought The Interview and Deluge were a little bit better
in regards to the point I want the students to get. Again, thanks for your
support. I know the impact of media in the classroom because we watched
Dead Poets Society in my English Lit class. I still slip it in the VCR when
I get burned out from teaching.
Tim
Well, I can see your point on the other stuff but I seriously feel that most
religions that say they are against war and such still participate and so
shouldn't object to that. But, yeah, I can definetly see the other parts (I
never noticed, or forgot, the bras on bbs ... LOL guess they just don't
interest me <g>).
And what I love about this one is the thinking process that the actors had to
go through. Not only were they adlibbing to real questions but they had to
think like their characters and adlib for *them.* Now, no matter how much you
are familiar with your role, throw out something like having to adlib *as* the
character and you've got some darn sharp actors that are clearly on their
toes!! BRAVO!!
I still remember in 6th grade that our teacher, Mrs. Newman, had a bulletin
board in the back of the class where she' put of odds and ends that sometimes
had to do with class and sometimes didn't. I can still see the small (about
2"x4") photo of a pile of dead bodies from a concentration camp. And right
next to that was a color photo of that famous painting of Zeus (I believe)
eating his children! Scared the blank outta' me!! I had my seat in the back
of the class, near the board/pix. For months I'd close my eyes as I approached
my desk.
And she looked so sweet and innocent ...
Although I do not know the name of the episode -- I would recommend the
one in which Hawkeye is "captured" by a Koren soldier who wants him to
treat his dying son. Hawkeye tries desperately, fearing his life is on
the line as well. The son dies and Hawkeye is superised he is allowed to
leave...but he sees the father starting to bury his son, so Hawk goes back
and helps dig the grave with him.
That shows that war really is about the killing of people and families.
And that "enemies" are really people just like us.
TC
I would use clips of different shows- Hawkeye drinking and "chasing nurses"
isn't learning about the Korean War anyhow.
Keep us posted on what you decide to do and how it goes over with the kids!
Excellent point!
>You think that's bad. In my science class in eleventh grade my teacher
>talked
>about gas and gave the example of farting. One parent called and chewed him
>out.
>
>Mandy
Did that parent get gas after the chewing out? :-)