North Korean on the Yalu Brick Road
Lawrence Christenson
Hawkeye find themselves lost on their way back to the camp, meeting a
North Korean soldier who follows them around as they wander back. Upon
arriving at the camp, the soldier continues to tag along with the
doctors as they return to their duties and that ends this story as
much as I've seen. A significant lose end however is what eventually
happens to the soldier, as well as his motives behind following the
two around. Have I missed something cut from syndication or does this
episode just not wrap up?
Thanks.
--Lawrence Christenson
Brad
"Lawrence Christenson" <lawr...@worldnet.org> wrote in message
news:ccan1v05o0niupmf0...@4ax.com...
The episode wraps up as well as this type of storyline can. "Ralph"
surrendered, so he's out of the game. Wouldn't he have gone to a PoW camp?
If so, it's not really relevent -- wherever Ralph goes -- to the plot. The
story was about Hawkeye and BJ getting back to the 4077 safely (and that
silly story about the bad turkeys). Ralph did his part. He helped Hawkeye
and BJ home.
--
Brad
George Perry
"Brad" <mouse...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:avgcmj$ff54p$1...@ID-137736.news.dfncis.de...
I disagree. your analysis is far too literal. "Ralph" raises many
interesting questions. For example, Why would a North Korean want to
surrender to the US? Is it a universal human trait to hate war and love
peace? Is it simply American propaganda to suppose that a North Korean
would surrender to Americans, the US being the only "good" place on earth?
Also, Klinger infecting the entire camp with botulism is not such a silly
story. If you see Klinger as trying to achieve some good, trying to make
people happy, yet achieving the exact opposite, and having his own people
turn against him, you might be able to see this as a metaphor for Yankee
Imperialism. Klinger meant well by securing the turkeys. I'm sure that
Americans thought they were doing good by going to war in Korea, Viet Nam,
Cambodia, Laos, Panama, Nicaragua, Grenada, Cuba, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan,
Iraq...
Klinger was stupid but he meant well. Klinger probably wouldn't get cheap
turkeys again.
America means well but they are stupid. America is stupid and keeps making
the same mistakes.
On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to think
about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you might
actually end up thinking for a change.
PS let's not forget that the "heroes" are lost in a foreign country. It's
classic stuff.
Ken Carriere
"George Perry" <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote in message
news:3e1bc...@news.cybersurf.net...
And that analysis is far, far too pretentious. By any chance, did you major
in English Lit? (Just in case you did, I put in the "far, far" to allude to
"Tale of Two Cities." Thought you'd enjoy that.)
> On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to think
> about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you might
> actually end up thinking for a change.
Not only does that sentence not make any sense ("...if you stop to
think...you might actually end up thinking...") it also contains an
uncalled-for ad hominem attack. That won't help make your point. Whatever it
is.
To everyone else, I want to say that this guy doesn't speak for all
Canadians. I'm quite fond of Americans. Especially the MASH fans.
George Perry
"Ken Carriere" <k-car...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:FtQS9.1715$g31...@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
No i did not major in English Lit. Nor did i major in Canadian Lit or
American Lit (neither were options, i wonder why?)
> > On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to
think
> > about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you
might
> > actually end up thinking for a change.
>
> Not only does that sentence not make any sense ("...if you stop to
> think...you might actually end up thinking...") it also contains an
> uncalled-for ad hominem attack. That won't help make your point. Whatever
it
> is.
Point taken, that really is poorly written on my part, i think the average
twelve year old might be able to figure out my point though, and i think
that the average twelve year old ought to be able to look up "ad hominem"
and conclude that you are far more guilty of this than i.
> To everyone else, I want to say that this guy doesn't speak for all
> Canadians. I'm quite fond of Americans. Especially the MASH fans.
Once again, it is not a matter of speaking for all Canadians. It is not a
matter of speaking against all Americans. It is a matter of taking a deep
breath, counting to ten, and asking ourselves "what the fuck are we doing?".
No, i agree, i do not speack for most Canadians. Nor do i speak for most
Americans. But i certainly speak for people on both sides of the border, i
certainly speak for people of both nationalities with a conscience.
i would suspect that MASH fans are curious as to why the US has ben bombing
Iraq every third day for the last decade. i would hope that MASH fans
question this. i would hope that MASH fans question why 300,000 people have
died as a result of US led sanctions against Iraq.
i would ask Canadians the same thing, but i fear that i might interrupt
Hockey Night In Canada.
Ken Carriere
>
> i would ask Canadians the same thing, but i fear that i might interrupt
> Hockey Night In Canada.
Yeah, that would be unforgivable.
By the way, how come you didn't let everyone else here in on the e-mail you
sent me? Which was:
> You are an idiot. The whole point of MASH is to think critically, not to
> suck Uncle Sam's dick. I just hope you use a condom.
Which shows you're not worth any more of my, nor any one else's, time.
Brad
> I disagree. your analysis is far too literal. "Ralph" raises many
> interesting questions.
"Ralph" only raises questions if you try to disect it too much, which I fear
you may be doing. You're the one adding the background story to "Ralph",
which could be anything really. Maybe "Ralph" surrendered for non-political
reasons. Maybe Ralph had had enough of the war. Maybe he hadn't eaten in two
weeks. Whatever the reason, it adds nothing to the story.
> For example, Why would a North Korean want to
> surrender to the US? Is it a universal human trait to hate war and love
> peace? Is it simply American propaganda to suppose that a North Korean
> would surrender to Americans, the US being the only "good" place on earth?
You're reading much too much into it. This wasn't one of the heavy, deep and
meaningful, thought provoking episodes of M*A*S*H. What you see is what you
get here. Ralph surrendered. Why? Who cares. He did. And it moved the story
along.
If they were making a political statement, they would have made it very
clear, I assure you. See "Foreign Affairs" (Season 11) or "Yessir That's My
Baby" (Season 8). Compare the fear of Hawkeye and BJ when they found Ralph
to the fear Hawkeye displayed in "Best of Enemies" and you'll see the
difference between the lighter and heavier episodes. In "Yalu Brick Road"
Ralph was almost cartoonish, the Mako character in "Best of Enemies" was
not.
> Also, Klinger infecting the entire camp with botulism is not such a silly
> story. If you see Klinger as trying to achieve some good, trying to make
> people happy, yet achieving the exact opposite, and having his own people
> turn against him...
Yep. Fine. But it *is* silly. I didn't necessarily put a negative spin on
the word.
> ...you might be able to see this as a metaphor for Yankee
> Imperialism.
No I don't. I don't suffer from Political paranoia.
> Klinger meant well by securing the turkeys. I'm sure that
> Americans thought they were doing good by going to war in Korea, Viet Nam,
> Cambodia, Laos, Panama, Nicaragua, Grenada, Cuba, Libya, Iraq,
Afghanistan,
> Iraq...
Eh? This is irrelevent isn't it? What's this got to do with Turkeys? Or
anything for that matter.
> On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to think
> about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you might
> actually end up thinking for a change.
Prep that sentence for surgery.
--
Brad (not American or Canadian, just a M*A*S*H fan)
George Hiebert
"George Perry" <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote
> I disagree. your analysis is far too literal. "Ralph" raises many
> interesting questions. For example, Why would a North Korean want to
> surrender to the US? Is it a universal human trait to hate war and love
> peace? Is it simply American propaganda to suppose that a North Korean
> would surrender to Americans, the US being the only "good" place on earth?
Yeah, I'd much rather live in an impoverished dictatorship than the USA.
> Also, Klinger infecting the entire camp with botulism is not such a silly
> story. If you see Klinger as trying to achieve some good, trying to make
> people happy, yet achieving the exact opposite, and having his own people
> turn against him, you might be able to see this as a metaphor for Yankee
> Imperialism. Klinger meant well by securing the turkeys. I'm sure that
> Americans thought they were doing good by going to war in Korea, Viet Nam,
> Cambodia, Laos, Panama, Nicaragua, Grenada, Cuba, Libya, Iraq,
Afghanistan,
> Iraq...
>
> Klinger was stupid but he meant well. Klinger probably wouldn't get cheap
> turkeys again.
>
> America means well but they are stupid. America is stupid and keeps
making
> the same mistakes.
>
> On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to think
> about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you might
> actually end up thinking for a change.
>
> PS let's not forget that the "heroes" are lost in a foreign country. It's
> classic stuff.
And your geo-political views have what do with M*A*S*H??????
Sean Carroll
wrote:
>"George Perry" <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote
>> I disagree. your analysis is far too literal. "Ralph" raises many
>> interesting questions. For example, Why would a North Korean want to
>> surrender to the US? Is it a universal human trait to hate war and love
>> peace? Is it simply American propaganda to suppose that a North Korean
>> would surrender to Americans, the US being the only "good" place on earth?
>Yeah, I'd much rather live in an impoverished dictatorship than the USA.
Every nation-state is a dictatorship, and most of the people in the
USA are impoverished. Just because it's, say, 75% as opposed to 90%,
and the few who are rich are richer here than the few who are rich
there, doesn't mean squat, except that the US government is better
than all the other ones at intimidation, imperialist exploitation, and
thievery, and is smarter than the other governments at using the
spoils of that thievery to bribe its own citizens into acceptance.
CaptJosh
news:ad7s1v4j5doovij4v...@4ax.com...
<snip>
> Every nation-state is a dictatorship, and most of the people in the
> USA are impoverished. Just because it's, say, 75% as opposed to 90%,
> and the few who are rich are richer here than the few who are rich
> there, doesn't mean squat, except that the US government is better
> than all the other ones at intimidation, imperialist exploitation, and
> thievery, and is smarter than the other governments at using the
> spoils of that thievery to bribe its own citizens into acceptance.
>
dictatorship. It never has been. The people have a say in almost everything
here. And if we don't like how our leaders are doing things, we are free to
try to get them voted out of office. We are even free to run for that office
if we feel we can do a better job. Furthermore, we can say what we damn well
please about our leaders and not fear arrest, torture, etc. To call the USA
a dictatorship is to prove that you have never once studied how this nation
is run. I would start with our Declaration of Independence and our
Constition, as currently amended. Once you've read those, then maybe you
might be knowledgeable enough to make intelligent commentary on our
government.
CaptJosh
---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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George Hiebert
"Sean Carroll" <se...@kua.net> wrote
> Every nation-state is a dictatorship, and most of the people in the
> USA are impoverished. Just because it's, say, 75% as opposed to 90%,
> and the few who are rich are richer here than the few who are rich
> there, doesn't mean squat, except that the US government is better
> than all the other ones at intimidation, imperialist exploitation, and
> thievery, and is smarter than the other governments at using the
> spoils of that thievery to bribe its own citizens into acceptance.
Blah blah blah.......
I don't live in the USA and I don't always agree with what they do for stand
for but if I was given the choice between living in the USA or N Korea it
would take me about a nanosecond to decide and the same would be true for
any thinking person. I don't think you quite understand what the word
dictatorship means.
Sean Carroll
wrote:
>I don't think you quite understand what the word
>dictatorship means.
You have me confused with you.
I shouldn't have even made that post, because it can only start a
protracted ugly political debate. So I'll drop the topic now, but
suffice it to say you, and most people, have a completely corrupted
view of international politics that has been drilled into your brain
by endless media double-talk, politicians' hypocrisy, and unashamed
nationalistic race-baiting and class hatred, and that in reality there
is absolutely *no* fundamental difference between the United States,
North Korea, Iraq, or any other country. They are all dictatorships
used as a tool by a rich and powerful élite to hold down the masses
from threatening their wealth and power. Period. There were 'nice'
slave-owners back in the 19th century who fed their slaves everything
they needed to live and never beat them, but they were still
slaveowners.
Sean Carroll
<capt...@phantos.subspacelink.com> wrote:
>"Sean Carroll" <se...@kua.net> wrote in message
>To call the USA
>a dictatorship is to prove that you have never once studied how this nation
>is run. I would start with our Declaration of Independence and our
>Constition, as currently amended. Once you've read those, then maybe you
>might be knowledgeable enough to make intelligent commentary on our
>government.
I happen to have read both of those documents, as well as many parts
of _The Federalist_ and the Enlightenment documents of political
theory on which all of them were based : Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau,
and many others. And many other political documents ranging from
Plato's _Republic_ to Howard Zinn's _A People's History of the United
States_. In fact, I have written out the entire US Constitution by
hand several times and written my own imaginary national constitutions
based on both it and the constitutions of other nations such as the
Russian SFSR.
You might want to put a little salt on that foot before you swallow
it.
You want to make it an issue of how much highbrow self-absorbed
political philosophising someone's been fortunate enough to have the
money and leisure time to read, and arrogant enough to brag about it,
instead of about the simple fact that the US, like all other
countries, is a device for protecting the class rule of a rich
minority against discontent by the masses? Fine, I'm okay with that.
It can only make the argument that much easier.
Chris Fewer
news:FtQS9.1715$g31...@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
I don't particularly like America... as for individual Americans, I wouldn't
know if I like them or not, I haven't met them all yet.
George Hiebert
"Sean Carroll" <se...@kua.net> wrote
and that in reality there
> is absolutely *no* fundamental difference between the United States,
> North Korea, Iraq, or any other country.
Try living in North Korea or Iraq for awhile, then tell me if you still feel
that way. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
George Perry
"George Hiebert" <ge...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:0RgU9.21191$H7.11...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
And of course you have lived in both of these countries, and are speaking
from experience. You wouldn't be re-hashing the propaganda that you've been
spoon fed your entire life, would you?
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
:
: "George Hiebert" <ge...@shaw.ca> wrote:
:> Try living in North Korea or Iraq for awhile, then tell me if you still
: feel
:> that way. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
:
: And of course you have lived in both of these countries, and are speaking
: from experience. You wouldn't be re-hashing the propaganda that you've been
: spoon fed your entire life, would you?
I haven't lived in both the USA and Iraq, but I know someone who has, and
I know what his preference is.
--
Paul Gadzikowski, scar...@iglou.com since 1995
http://members.iglou.com/scarfman
"Colonel O'Neill, we can't call it the Enterprise."
George Perry
"PAUL GADZIKOWSKI" <scar...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3e21a...@news.iglou.com...
> George Perry <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote:
> :
> : "George Hiebert" <ge...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> :> Try living in North Korea or Iraq for awhile, then tell me if you still
> : feel
> :> that way. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
> :
> : And of course you have lived in both of these countries, and are
speaking
> : from experience. You wouldn't be re-hashing the propaganda that you've
been
> : spoon fed your entire life, would you?
>
> I haven't lived in both the USA and Iraq, but I know someone who has, and
> I know what his preference is.
>
i wouldn't want to live in a country that the US has bombed 100 times a year
for the last decade either.
yesrules
year
> for the last decade either.
In an attempt to bring us back OT, I offer this quote:
"I know how hard it is to perform surgery and be Secretary of State at the
same time".
YesRules
==============================
"They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
when he said the world was round . . .
but he went on to write a great song."
ESolomonso
>Date: 01/12/2003 8:24 PM
>> i wouldn't want to live in a country that the US has bombed 100 times a
>year
>> for the last decade either.
>
>
>In an attempt to bring us back OT, I offer this quote:
>"I know how hard it is to perform surgery and be Secretary of State at the
>same time".
>
LOL! The perfect quote!
Eddie
======================================
If I want to chew the fat, I'll eat a sandwich.
George Perry
"ESolomonso" <esolo...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20030112205007...@mb-bk.aol.com...
i am neither a surgeon nor Secretary of State. Call me whatever you will,
but please allow me the privilege of providing the following information.
Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and attempt
to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't it?
To see the devestating effects that our sanctions have brought the Iraqi
people, go to http://tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/iraq/.
To see the history of our bombing campaign against Iraq, go here:
http://www.ccmep.org/usbombingwatch/2003.htm
Maybe i'm insane, but if i were living in Iraq, and the US bombed my family,
my people and myself in such a manner, i might not exactly be waving the
Stars and Stripes. I might not find the irony of the US calling Saddam the
next Hitler very funny
From http://tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/iraq/:
The United Nations is facing alarming new reports that tough economic
sanctions on Iraq may be having dangerous side effects. Eight and a half
years into the harshest world sanctions ever imposed, millions in Iraq are
impoverished and malnourished.
Conservative estimates put the number of civilian deaths due to sanctions at
more than 300,000; caused by disease, malnutrition, and hostage of proper
drugs).
Since the Gulf War sanctions have cost Iraq more than $150 billion in oil
exports and have severely damaged the whole economy. Now there's evidence a
resulting shortage of animal vaccines could spread diseases to other
countries.
UN agricultural teams warn an outbreak of foot and mouth disease in cattle
could ''seriously undermine the food supply of the entire Middle East.''
It's one of the ''unintended consequences'' of sanctions.
The UN Security Council is now re-examing sanctions---following mounting
evidence that they've hurt innocent civilians far more than the regime.
UN sanctions are a blunt weapon meant to hurt Iraq to force Saddam Hussein
to prove he's abandoned weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam remains
defiant; his regime is terrifyingly repressive and the damage of sanctions
spreads.
In rural Iraq there's alarming new evidence that sanctions pose unexpected
dangers to the entire Middle East.
An acute shortage of pesticides and animal vaccines due to sanctions helps
spread farm diseases. Half of Iraq's vital date trees, 15 million trees,
have died.
The UN has found infestations of screwworms, which burrow into animals and
humans, spreading to Kuwait and other Gulf states.
Now, most serious, foot-and mouth disease, lethal to livestock, is raging in
Iraq and spreading towards neighbouring states.
That could undermine the whole regions food supply, warns the UN's Food and
Agriculture Organization (FAO). Amir Khalil, FAO chief in Iraq says he still
doesn't have enough vaccines to stop it. "It's very dangerous because it's
not just Iraq. It's going to effect Turkey, it's going to effect Saudi
Arabia, it's going to effect Jordan it's going to effect Syria and all
neighbouring countries," he says. "You know these animals cross from one
side to the other side..I'm afraid unless we move fast... it's going to
spread in the region whether we like it or not.''
The grave new danger of animal diseases spreading across the Middle East is
a remarkable example of the unintended consequences of international acts.
No one at the UN seems to have foreseen that the economic battering of Iraq
could lead to a virtual collapse of the health services and agriculture to a
point where it could endanger millions even beyond the borders with Iraq.
There's a kind of domino effect at play here where one disaster seems to
lead inevitable to dozens of others.
For example, even if there was enough money for vaccines there are now too
few places to store them because sanctions have also crippled electrical
systems and refrigeration units.
"I will be very frank, there is a lack of everything," Amir Khalil says.
"Agriculture is a biological process, and agriculture is a chain of
operations. If any of these chains or rings is missing--the whole operation
will collapse.''
Tariq Aziz, Iraq's deputy prime minister says the UN enforces nothing less
than mass destruction.
"This is an act of genocide. They are not exaggerating because this is a
criminal policy to destroy the people of Iraq, the state of Iraq...they are
destroying the structure of the state, and the Iraqi people and the Iraqi
ability to live and to develop.''
Most UN nations still blame the standoff on Iraq--but some major nations
like France now argue sanctions are now simply too ruinous and cruel.
For the UN it's both a crisis and embarrassment: a sanction meant to curb
weapons of mass destruction has itself become an instrument.. of mass
destruction.
Dates that the US bombed Iraq in 2002:
2002
December 31st
December 30th
December 29th
December 26th
December 20th
December 18th
December 16th
December 15th
December 14th
December 10th
December 4th
December 2nd
December 1st
November 28th
November 23rd
November 22nd
November 21st
November 20th
November 18th
November 15th
November 6th
October 30th
October 29th (Leaflet Drop)
October 23rd
October 22nd
October 15th
October 10th
October 9th
October 3rd
September 29th
September 25th
September 23rd
September 15th
September 9th
September 5th
August 30th
August 27th
August 25th
August 23rd
August 20th
August 17th
August 14th
August 5th
July 28th
July 23rd
July 19th
July 14th
July 13th
July 4th
June 28th
June 26th
June 20th
June 14th
May 31st
May 28th
May 25th
May 23rd
May 20th
May 1st
April 20th
April 16th
February 28th
February 6th
January 24th
January 22nd / January 21st / January 20th?
Dates that the US bombed Iraq in 2001:
2001
November 27th
November 11th
October 15th?
October 3rd
October 2nd
September 27th
September 21st
September 20th
September 10th
September 4th
August 31st
August 27th
August 17th
August 14th
August 10th
August 7th
July 17th
July 7th
June 26th
June 25th
June 19th?
June 14th
June 6th
June 5th
May 23rd
May 18th
April 30th
April 28th
April 17th
April 16th
April 11th
April 6th
February 22nd
February 16th
February 12th
February 11th
January 28-29th
January 24th
January 20th
January 11th
Getting the picture? All of this (and more) is documented at
http://www.ccmep.org/usbombingwatch/2003.htm
CaptJosh
>
<snipped for the sake of brevity>
The UN sanctions allow Iraq to sell some oil for necessary supplies of food
and medicine. If Saddam Hussein chooses not to spend the money on those
things because he is a megalomaniacal tyrant, the UN and USA are not
responsible for his actions.
Fletcher
woods and not step on a landmine.
B
"George Hiebert" <ge...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:0RgU9.21191$H7.11...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
>
Barrie
>> USA are impoverished. Just because it's, say, 75% as opposed to 90%,
>> and the few who are rich are richer here than the few who are rich
>> there, doesn't mean squat, except that the US government is better
>> than all the other ones at intimidation, imperialist exploitation, and
>> thievery, and is smarter than the other governments at using the
>> spoils of that thievery to bribe its own citizens into acceptance.
>>
>You sir, are full of shit! The United States of America is NOT a
>dictatorship. It never has been. The people have a say in almost everything
>here. And if we don't like how our leaders are doing things, we are free to
>try to get them voted out of office. We are even free to run for that office
>if we feel we can do a better job. Furthermore, we can say what we damn well
>please about our leaders and not fear arrest, torture, etc. To call the USA
>a dictatorship is to prove that you have never once studied how this nation
>is run. I would start with our Declaration of Independence and our
>Constition, as currently amended. Once you've read those, then maybe you
>might be knowledgeable enough to make intelligent commentary on our
>government.
>
>CaptJosh
ENOUGH!!! This topic long ago stopped being about M*A*S*H (after about the
first post, IIRC), and is now quickly becomming a slam-fest. This forum is for
M*A*S*H, not politics, and deifnitely not for swapping insults. So can we
please end this topic before someone gets really hurt?
Abyssinia,
Barrie
"All I know is what they taught me at command school. There are certain rules
about a war and rule number one is young men die. And rule number two is
doctors can't change rule number one." -- Lt. Col. Henry Blake
Fshrly834
>> surrendered, so he's out of the game. Wouldn't he have gone to a PoW camp?
>> If so, it's not really relevent -- wherever Ralph goes -- to the plot. The
>> story was about Hawkeye and BJ getting back to the 4077 safely (and that
>> silly story about the bad turkeys). Ralph did his part. He helped Hawkeye
>> and BJ home.
>>
>> --
>> Brad
>>
>>
>
>I disagree. your analysis is far too literal. "Ralph" raises many
>interesting questions. For example, Why would a North Korean want to
>surrender to the US? Is it a universal human trait to hate war and love
>peace? Is it simply American propaganda to suppose that a North Korean
>would surrender to Americans, the US being the only "good" place on earth?
During the Korean War, there were many instances of North Korean soldiers
surrendering to American troops. (Check out James Garner's Korean War
experience. It sounds like an episode of MASH.)
>Also, Klinger infecting the entire camp with botulism is not such a silly
>story. If you see Klinger as trying to achieve some good, trying to make
>people happy, yet achieving the exact opposite, and having his own people
>turn against him, you might be able to see this as a metaphor for Yankee
>Imperialism.
Whoa, we just stepped into an alternate reality here, I suspect. Yankee
imperialism? Put the joint down and re-read your take on this.
> Klinger meant well by securing the turkeys. I'm sure that
>Americans thought they were doing good by going to war in Korea, Viet Nam,
>Cambodia, Laos, Panama, Nicaragua, Grenada, Cuba, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan,
>Iraq...
As a matter of fact, yes, Americans did think they were doing the right thing
by going to war in all those places.
>Klinger was stupid but he meant well. Klinger probably wouldn't get cheap
>turkeys again.
>
>America means well but they are stupid. America is stupid and keeps making
>the same mistakes.
Stupid? No. But, all nations make mistakes. At least we try to make the
world a better place as opposed to those who plot to poison innocent people or
steal aircraft so they can fly them into office buildings.
>On the surface it is quite a superficial episode, but if you stop to think
>about it for a second (a challenge, I know, for most Americans), you might
>actually end up thinking for a change.
Americans have a long history of being free-thinkers, even in a world where
free-thinking is discouraged.
>PS let's not forget that the "heroes" are lost in a foreign country. It's
classic stuff.
In many ways, they are actually "anti-heroes."
CaptJosh
news:MPG.188c7f5fd...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:37:06 -0800, CaptJosh said the following:
> > "George Perry" <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote in message
> > news:3e223...@news.cybersurf.net...
> > >
> > <snipped for the sake of brevity>
> >
> > The UN sanctions allow Iraq to sell some oil for necessary supplies of
food
> > and medicine. If Saddam Hussein chooses not to spend the money on those
> > things because he is a megalomaniacal tyrant, the UN and USA are not
> > responsible for his actions.
> >
> lifted, and so far, they've refused to comply. I'm no war-mongerer,
> believe me, but it's way past time we kick Saddam out on his ass before
> he becomes the next bin Laden (if he hasn't already), IMNSHO. We
> *should* have done this back in '91.
>
Everyone was too worried about Iraq becomming another Vietnam. While we did
the right ting by accepting the surrender of those Iraqi forces who did
surrender, we shouldn't have sent them back to their homes. We should have
pressed on until total victory had been achieved, and Saddam had become a
non-issue.
Hogne B. Pettersen
> Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and attempt
> to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't it?
>
Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
group, just get it out of a.t.m!
-Elf-
e...@elfworld.org URL: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~elf/ IRC: Elf/Alv
"People are more than willing to accept a total disaster rather than
reading the manual beforehand."
Barrie
>group, just get it out of a.t.m!
>
>-Elf-
Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was when AOL
wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with M*A*S*H.
Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which sort
of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
George Perry
"Barrie" <cart...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030114031825...@mb-fe.aol.com...
> >To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
years to discuss the impending invasion of Iraq until it becomes a sitcom?
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
"Hogne B. Pettersen" <e...@elfworld.org> wrote in message
news:f7eda6ca.03011...@posting.google.com...
> "George Perry" <g...@nevermind.ca> wrote in message
news:<3e223...@news.cybersurf.net>...
> >
> > but please allow me the privilege of providing the following
information.
> > Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and
attempt
> > to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't
it?
> >
>
> Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
> but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
>
> To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> group, just get it out of a.t.m!
How old is this thread? If it offends you so much, why are you still
reading it?
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
"Hogne B. Pettersen" <e...@elfworld.org> wrote in message
news:f7eda6ca.03011...@posting.google.com...
news:<3e223...@news.cybersurf.net>...
> >
> > but please allow me the privilege of providing the following
information.
> > Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and
attempt
> > to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't
it?
> >
>
> Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
> but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
>
> To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> group, just get it out of a.t.m!
How old is this thread? If it offends you so much, why are you still
reading it?
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
"Hogne B. Pettersen" <e...@elfworld.org> wrote in message
news:f7eda6ca.03011...@posting.google.com...
news:<3e223...@news.cybersurf.net>...
> >
> > but please allow me the privilege of providing the following
information.
> > Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and
attempt
> > to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't
it?
> >
>
> Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
> but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
>
> To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> group, just get it out of a.t.m!
How old is this thread? If it offends you so much, why are you still
reading it?
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
"Hogne B. Pettersen" <e...@elfworld.org> wrote in message
news:f7eda6ca.03011...@posting.google.com...
news:<3e223...@news.cybersurf.net>...
> >
> > but please allow me the privilege of providing the following
information.
> > Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and
attempt
> > to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't
it?
> >
>
> Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
> but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
>
> To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> group, just get it out of a.t.m!
How old is this thread? If it offends you so much, why are you still
reading it?
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
> >group, just get it out of a.t.m!
> >
> >-Elf-
>
> Thank you, Elf. I tried to say exactly this a few days ago, but it was
when AOL
> wasn't working, and it never showed up. Everyone has a right to his or her
> opinion, but this is not the place for it, unless it has to do with
M*A*S*H.
> Otherwise everyone starts arguing, and coming here stops being fun, which
sort
> of defeats its purpose, now doesn't it?
>
> Abyssinia,
> Barrie
If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
George Perry
"Hogne B. Pettersen" <e...@elfworld.org> wrote in message
news:f7eda6ca.03011...@posting.google.com...
news:<3e223...@news.cybersurf.net>...
> >
> > but please allow me the privilege of providing the following
information.
> > Please allow me to go OT again, to briefly escape the boob tube and
attempt
> > to provide a sobering slice of reality. M*A*S*H did that often, didn't
it?
> >
>
> Allow you? Unfortunately nobody can refuse you to post OT-messages,
> but it's disrespectfull and a violation of netiquette to do so.
>
> To everybody: Take this thread over to the appropriate politics news
> group, just get it out of a.t.m!
How old is this thread? If it offends you so much, why are you still
reading it?
CaptJosh
Learn how to use a newsreader, for heaven's sake.
Barrie
>years to discuss the impending invasion of Iraq until it becomes a sitcom?
Nope. You're supposed to find someplace else to discuss it, that's all.
Abyssinia,
Barrie
P.S. I'm done with this thread. If anyone by some miracle decides to actually
post in this thread about M*A*S*H, please let me know, and I'll read it.
George Perry
> P.S. I'm done with this thread. If anyone by some miracle decides to
actually
> post in this thread about M*A*S*H, please let me know, and I'll read it.
You're living in the past mate. People are flying planes into your most
prominent buildings. You're about to go to war, and far too many men and
women are going to be hurt and/or killed. You should be more concerned with
that, NOT the "integrity" of a NG.
"Daddy, what did you do to help prevent war with Iraq?"
"Well, of course I tried to clean up alt.tv.mash."
Hogne B. Pettersen
>
> If you don't want to read this thread, don't. Am i supposed to wait twenty
> years to discuss the impending invasion of Iraq until it becomes a sitcom?
>
You're supposed to take this to another news group, preferably to one
of the political news groups. There are hundreds of them and I'm sure
there are people who are more than willing to discuss this subject
with you.
This news group is about M*A*S*H. When people open this news group
they expect to download messages about their favourite tv show, not
about war and politics that has absolutely nothing to do with M*A*S*H.
Not only do people feel cheated, they have also wasted time, money and
bandwidth downloading messages that have absolutely nothing to do with
the topic at hand.
I think you need to learn how the usenet works, George. Here's a
usefull place to go:
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=news.announce.newusers
yesrules
>to provide a sobering slice of reality.
> The United Nations is facing alarming new reports that tough economic
> sanctions on Iraq may be having dangerous side effects. Eight and a half
> years into the harshest world sanctions ever imposed, millions in Iraq are
> impoverished and malnourished.
George,
It's my turn.
In order to reply to your propaganda, excuse me, your "sobering slice of
reality", please allow me to go OT and present you with some facts.
UN sanctions never prevented Saddam's regime from importing all the goods
and medicines it wanted. Iraq simply refused to spend its money in order to
create humanitarian suffering that it could then exploit for propaganda
purposes.
UN human rights investigators found that Saddam Hussein imposed economic
blockades on the Shia south in the 1990s to punish the people for
anti-regime sentiment.
UN human rights investigators and weapons inspectors found that Saddam was
using his military forces in southern Iraq to wage war against Shia
civilians. The UN documented how Iraqi troops under Saddam's orders razed
whole villages, used artillery to shell marsh Arabs, and destroyed the
southern marshes, forcibly relocating the Madan people and others who lived
in the country to relocate from their homes and villages.
UN personnel have found Iraqi military warehouses stocked with medicines
that should have gone to the people.
Saddam Hussein has built hundreds of palaces and VIP residences since 1991.
There's no denying this: the UN can document it. Why is he doing this
instead of taking care of his people?
Your lies and obfuscations are made obvious by the success of Iraq's Kurdish
population. Under UN sanctions, and outside of Saddam's grasp - the Iraqi
Kurds are thriving. The Kurds are some 15% of the Iraqi population. They
are rebuilding the destruction Saddam wreaked in the 1980s; have the best
standards of living they've enjoyed in decades; and have re-established
education, local government, media, and economic institutions destroyed by
Saddam. They enjoy basic freedoms that Iraqis living under Saddam do not.
All this is possible because the Kurds have US, UK, and UN protection. The
Kurds have suffered only when they chose to fight each other.
All those bombing missions you list were against military targets. Even the
Iraqis - who have a better sense of propaganda than you do - do not actually
claim that each and every mission targeted or killed civilians.
==============================
"They all laughed at Christopher Columbus
when he said the world was round . . .
but he went on to write a great song."
Barrie
NO! Enough is enough! It's time to end this, or else move it to a NG that wants
to discuss this! Thank you.
Abyssinia,
Barrie
Sean Carroll
>>please allow me to go OT
>NO! Enough is enough! It's time to end this, or else move it to a NG that wants
>to discuss this! Thank you.
Um ... not to be a wet blanket or anything, but unless this is a
moderated NG and I missed it, you can't do anything about it. There's
no 'allowing' to be done, and you don't get to decide what the 'time'
is for anything. If you find a particular thread objectionable, then
all you can do is either comment on it or simply not read it.
I'm not looking to get involved in a huge annoying OT thread about
politics at the moment, but I don't stick my nose in about other
people choosing to do so. If I'm not interested, I skip the thread.
Hogne B. Pettersen
|
| Um ... not to be a wet blanket or anything, but unless this is a
| moderated NG and I missed it, you can't do anything about it. There's
| no 'allowing' to be done, and you don't get to decide what the 'time'
| is for anything. If you find a particular thread objectionable, then
| all you can do is either comment on it or simply not read it.
|
Wrong, wrong, wrong!
The whole usenet-system works by certain rules and guidelines, and one of the
most important rules is the fact that each news group is about a certain
topic, and that you don't violate that rule by going on with completely
OT debates. It has got nothing to with the fact that there's a moderator for
the group or not. The people who post to the groups are supposed to be
self-moderators. When people can't seem to understand that they don't do that
job very well, they need to be told.
I recommend the group news.announce.newusers, where the reasons for why, if and
don't are described in detail.
--
-Elf-
NEW MAIL: e...@elfworld.org URL: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~elf/ IRC: Elf/Alv
Linux user: "Ok, the GUI sucks, but see how fast and reliable it is?"
Windows user: "It hasn't crashed since yesterday!"
Mac-user: "Look, how it matches the furniture!"