Question About Rank
JimmyCarterB
I was just wondering how the various doctors at the 4077th came to earn the
military ranks that they had. If anyone has a little military knowledge to
share, it would be greatly appreciated.
If you compare the military ranks of the various doctors on MASH, some
things just don't seem to make sense. For example, I am perplexed by the
fact that Sherman Potter and Henry Blake shared the rank of Colonel. It
doesn't make any sense to me that a bumbler (albeit a loveable bumbler) like
Henry Blake could earn the same rank and command as a career military man
like Potter. Why on earth was Henry Blake made a colonel?
Also, why was Henry Blake 2 ranks above Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper? Henry was
no more a military man than any of the Swamp rats -- I doubt that he EARNED
a promotion. So I must assume that different people were assigned different
ranks at the time they were drafted, with some criteria being used to
distinguish between the draftees. Does anybody know what this criteria was?
If so, how does it apply to the specific characters in MASH?
Thanks!
James
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/30/2002 9:59 PM
>It
>doesn't make any sense to me that a bumbler (albeit a loveable bumbler) like
>Henry Blake could earn the same rank and command as a career military man
>like Potter. Why on earth was Henry Blake made a colonel?
First, they didn't share the same rank. Henry was a Lt.Colonel and Potter was a
full Colonel and outranks Henry.
Henry didn't exactly earn his rank. It was given to him when he was called up,
as was Trapper and Hawkeye making Captain.
>Also, why was Henry Blake 2 ranks above Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper?
Henry was in private practice before being called up and was older with more
experience. Hawkeye was working in a hospital and I believe Trapper was too.
>Henry was
>no more a military man than any of the Swamp rats -- I doubt that he EARNED
>a promotion. So I must assume that different people were assigned different
>ranks at the time they were drafted, with some criteria being used to
>distinguish between the draftees.
The distinguished between experience. Henry had more than Hawkeye and Trapper.
BJ was fresh out of residency.
CEW was a Major because of his experience and was close to becoming the Chief
of Thoracics at Boston Medical. He too had more experience than Hawkeye,
Trapper and BJ.
Henry and CEW were doctors longer than any of the rest, other than Potter. Same
applied to Frank Burns. FB was in practice for three years and already had a
$35,000 house and two cars when Hawkeye and Trapper were called up.
Eddie
======================================
If I want to chew the fat, I'll eat a sandwich.
SaintMaryM
>
>I was just wondering how the various doctors at the 4077th came to earn the
>military ranks that they had. If anyone has a little military knowledge to
>share, it would be greatly appreciated.
>
>If you compare the military ranks of the various doctors on MASH, some
>things just don't seem to make sense. For example, I am perplexed by the
>fact that Sherman Potter and Henry Blake shared the rank of Colonel. It
>doesn't make any sense to me that a bumbler (albeit a loveable bumbler) like
>Henry Blake could earn the same rank and command as a career military man
>like Potter. Why on earth was Henry Blake made a colonel?
Actually, Blake and Potter were *not* of the same rank. Blake was a
*Lieutenant* Colonel, Potter was a 'full-bird' Colonel. Potter was a rank
above Blake. To call them both Colonel is still correct, but there is a
difference.
>
>Also, why was Henry Blake 2 ranks above Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper? Henry was
>no more a military man than any of the Swamp rats -- I doubt that he EARNED
>a promotion. So I must assume that different people were assigned different
>ranks at the time they were drafted, with some criteria being used to
>distinguish between the draftees. Does anybody know what this criteria was?
>If so, how does it apply to the specific characters in MASH?
All doctors, upon joining the military, are automatically given the rank of
Captain.
What probably happened is Henry was drafted before Hawkeye and Trapper. They
advise him that they need him to head up a MASH unit three miles away from the
front.
It's not unusual in those situations for rank to get "pushed". The timeline
may have very well been that Captain Blake arrives in Korea in say, September
1951, and is promoted immediately to Major. Then perhaps three months later,
is promoted again to Lieutenant Colonel. Yes, it may sound crazy, but that
does happen in wartime/police action.
So if you're wondering why Hawkeye and Trapper never went above captain--the
reasons were twofold: 1.) They were causing a lot of trouble, so their
records probably weren't all that great. 2.) They didn't have time in
service/rank for it, and unlike Henry, there wasn't any great need to push them
into a higher rank.
Shannon
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/30/2002 10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>What probably happened is Henry was drafted before Hawkeye and Trapper. They
>advise him that they need him to head up a MASH unit three miles away from
>the
>front.
>
Henry was drafted as a Lt.Colonel because he was a doctor longer than Hawkeye
and Trapper and in private practice. Nothing was ever mentioned about Henry, or
anyone else for that matter, being "pushed along."
>The timeline
>may have very well been that Captain Blake arrives in Korea in say, September
>1951, and is promoted immediately to Major. Then perhaps three months later,
>is promoted again to Lieutenant Colonel.
Nothing was ever mentioned about this either.
By your theory, Frank would have outranked Henry upon arrival and he would have
been the CO. If this is the case, why would Henry get promoted over Frank?
Chances are that with this scenario, Henry would have stayed a Captain and FB
would have stayed as the CO.
>So if you're wondering why Hawkeye and Trapper never went above captain--the
>reasons were twofold: 1.) They were causing a lot of trouble, so their
>records probably weren't all that great.
Neither was Frank's but he was a doctor longer than H & T.
>2.) They didn't have time in
>service/rank for it, and unlike Henry, there wasn't any great need to push
>them
>into a higher rank.
But they did by the time CEW entered the picture. They had more time in the
service but CEW came in as a Major because he too had more experience than H &
T as he was a doctor longer than they were.
Again, by your theory, H & T should have been promoted and CEW should have been
a Captain.
In the "Consultant", Borelli was a civilian in uniform and I'm pretty sure he
outranked H & T. He was a higher rank because he too had more experience as a
doctor.
Gian Mignone
Trap, Hawk and Beej were drafted right out of residency. They were brand
new doctors. Henry, Frank and Charles were experienced physicians who
were already serving in the Army Reserve. They had been serving for
awhile and therefore worked up the ranks.
Just my thoughts on it.....
Gary Tait
wrote:
>>saint...@aol.com (SaintMaryM)
>>Date: 08/30/2002 10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>
>>
>
>Henry was drafted as a Lt.Colonel because he was a doctor longer than Hawkeye
>and Trapper and in private practice. Nothing was ever mentioned about Henry, or
>anyone else for that matter, being "pushed along."
It was my understanding, that Frank and Henry were in the Reserves.
SaintMaryM
>and Trapper and in private practice. Nothing was ever mentioned about Henry,
>or
>anyone else for that matter, being "pushed along."
>
I don't remember hearing that Henry was drafted as a Lieutenant Colonel...which
ep was this?
>Nothing was ever mentioned about this either.
>By your theory, Frank would have outranked Henry upon arrival and he would
>have
>been the CO. If this is the case, why would Henry get promoted over Frank?
Not neccesarily. Henry may have had "time in grade" over Frank. (Meaning he
was a major for maybe a month longer than Frank.) Believe it or not, that's an
important distinction in the military.
Shannon
Hogne B. Pettersen
I can assure you that Charles was NOT in the reserve. :)
--
-Elf-
NEW MAIL: e...@elfworld.org URL: http://www.mo.himolde.no/~elf/ IRC: Elf/Alv
Linux user: "Ok, the GUI sucks, but see how fast and reliable it is?"
Windows user: "It hasn't crashed since yesterday!"
Mac-user: "Look, how it matches the furniture!"
Gian Mignone
Very good point!
NRobin1027
>
>Very good point!
>
Charles probably bought his rank, LOL:)
Robin:)
NRobin1027
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/31/2002 2:30 PM
>>> I can assure you that Charles was NOT in the reserve. :)
>>
>>Very good point!
>>
>
>Charles probably bought his rank, LOL:)
You're probably right! He or his father.
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/31/2002 11:37 AM
>Nothing was ever mentioned about Henry,
>>or
>>anyone else for that matter, being "pushed along."
>>
>
>I don't remember hearing that Henry was drafted as a Lieutenant
>Colonel...which ep was this?
None that I recall but there's nothing implied to make me think otherwise.
George Perry
"NRobin1027" <nrobi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020831143045...@mb-ml.aol.com...
How DARE you insinuate a Winchester possess something they did not earn and
deserve!
However, if you are offering to, shall we say, "ease the road to
promotion"...
NRobin1027
esolo...@aol.comnospam (ESolomonso) writes:
>ou're probably right! He or his father.
>
And we can assume from Hot Lip's "Dealings" with verious generals that she
slept her way to Major.
Robin:)
NRobin1027
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/31/2002 6:41 PM
>And we can assume from Hot Lip's "Dealings" with verious generals that she
>slept her way to Major.
>
>Robin:)
With all her dealings, she should be the Secretary of State.
J.D.S.
think she would then have been busted to the rank of Private.. ;-)
Rgds
J.D.S
ShandaRose
I don't think Charles would have bought his rank. He was up for being chief of
Thorasic surgery in Boston, so probably had a few years of medicine ahead of
Trapper, Hawkeye and BJ.
Also, if one could "buy" their rank, the private whose father was a general
(the one who had the officer's club built) probably wouldn't be a private ...
he would have been promoted to something higher!
Shanda
Brad
"ShandaRose" <shand...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020831193404...@mb-fs.aol.com...
>
> I don't think Charles would have bought his rank. He was up for being
chief of
> Thorasic surgery in Boston, so probably had a few years of medicine ahead
of
> Trapper, Hawkeye and BJ.
I don't think the Winchester's would have bought Charles his rank either. If
money was that powerful, Charles would have had his parents buy a loophole
that stopped him from doing national service in the first place. Remember
when Charles was telling Potter that his father knew Harry Truman as a
threat to get him sent back to Tokyo? I would assume his father couldn't
pull any strings or buy Charles' freedom the same way he couldn't buy
Charles a higher rank.
--
Brad
ESolomonso
>Date: 08/31/2002 8:26 PM
>I don't think the Winchester's would have bought Charles his rank either. If
>money was that powerful, Charles would have had his parents buy a loophole
>that stopped him from doing national service in the first place. Remember
>when Charles was telling Potter that his father knew Harry Truman as a
>threat to get him sent back to Tokyo? I would assume his father couldn't
>pull any strings or buy Charles' freedom the same way he couldn't buy
>Charles a higher rank.
I think you're correct. Charles' father "Paid good money" for a Senator but it
didn't help him get to Tokyo.
John Martin
1) Frank was in ROTC, he probably was an army doctor all the way
through. he was always more army than doctor
2) Henry, being older, probably had aome leadership roles in the past
after residency.He must have been in the reserves though, because he
was too old to be drafted unles he was a reservist, right? Anyway,
given this, he was probably qualified to run a MASH unit, which would
need a Lt Col to run it, so he was given that.
3) Potter was military first (not a doctor in WWI, he was cavalry) and
then became a doctor after (the TonTin episode says a bit about this)
He was a doc all the way through, but soldier too, so his full bird
status is understandable.
4) CEW in tokyo, as near chief of thoracic surgery at harvard,
probably had similar leadership rank in tokyo, and thus promoted to
major.
5) Pierce, Hunicut, n trapper were young sdoctors with little
leadership qualities. or desires. hardly army, thus the rank of
captain.
i would have thought, tho, that when pierce became chief surgeon, a
rank of major would have been issued?
um, or maybe its a tv show where not everything follows the rules and
laws of the real world?
john martin
Michael Bayles
Beej. Yet there seemed to be plenty of instances where it seemed like
authority was on different tracks- Margaret had no authority outside nursing
staff and Pierce et al had no authority w/i the nursing staff. So I guess
she outranks them in all aspects but surgery?
regards,
-mike
Gary Tait
AFAIK, she's real Army.
John Martin
<bay...@wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
1) Margeret is real Army, and if you remember she was often officer of
the day or in charge of some such. when there was a staff meeting she
was there and given something to be in charge of (KP or something like
that once, i think)
2) In terms of surgery, Pierce as chief of surgery was top dog, even
over his CO, really. Who made the order to change th floor from wood
to concrete?
Margeret was in charge of her nurses and Pierce, i dont think, ever
stepped over that. she probably decided duty roster fo nurses, pierce
for all else. just a guess...a lot of it i'm sure was off camera, as
it were..
john martin
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: 1) Margeret is real Army, and if you remember she was often officer of
: the day or in charge of some such.
I don't remember that she was ever officer of the day. Can you name an
episode?
--
Paul Gadzikowski, scar...@iglou.com since 1995
http://members.iglou.com/scarfman
"What's the opposite of Batman?" "You are."
Brad
"PAUL GADZIKOWSKI" <scar...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
news:3d72c...@news.iglou.com...
> John Martin <johnm...@attbi.com> wrote:
> : 1) Margeret is real Army, and if you remember she was often officer of
> : the day or in charge of some such.
>
> I don't remember that she was ever officer of the day. Can you name an
> episode?
I can think of one time only, but even that time is not so official. In "To
Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's office,
with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
--
Brad
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/01/2002 10:36 PM
>> I don't remember that she was ever officer of the day. Can you name an
>> episode?
>I can think of one time only, but even that time is not so official. In "To
>Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's office,
>with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
>
>--
>Brad
Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there. I too do not
recall Margaret being OD.
Brad
"ESolomonso" <esolo...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020902001502...@mb-bk.aol.com...
> >"Brad" mouse...@hotmail.com
> >Date: 09/01/2002 10:36 PM
>
> >> I don't remember that she was ever officer of the day. Can you name an
> >> episode?
>
> >I can think of one time only, but even that time is not so official. In
"To
> >Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's
office,
> >with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
> >
> >--
> >Brad
>
> Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there. I too do
not
> recall Margaret being OD.
That's why I wasn't sure she was Officer of The Day. I just assumed she was.
She wasn't wearing the armband though.
--
Brad
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/02/2002 1:25 AM
>> Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there. I too do
>not
>> recall Margaret being OD.
>
>That's why I wasn't sure she was Officer of The Day. I just assumed she was.
>She wasn't wearing the armband though.
It also comes with a sword and sash, according to Frank.
Hogne B. Pettersen
|
| 2) In terms of surgery, Pierce as chief of surgery was top dog, even
| over his CO, really. Who made the order to change th floor from wood
| to concrete?
|
I think Potter could easily have stopped that order. As a CO he did have
authority over everyone in camp. There are numerous situations where that is
shown.
Doug
> >"JimmyCarterB" jimmyc...@hotmail.com
> >Date: 08/30/2002 9:59 PM
>
>It
>doesn't make any sense to me that a bumbler (albeit a loveable bumbler)
like
>Henry Blake could earn the same rank and command as a career military man
>like Potter. Why on earth was Henry Blake made a colonel?
>
was a
> full Colonel and outranks Henry.
> Henry didn't exactly earn his rank. It was given to him when he was called
up,
> as was Trapper and Hawkeye making Captain.
>
> >Also, why was Henry Blake 2 ranks above Hawkeye, BJ, and Trapper?
>
more
> experience. Hawkeye was working in a hospital and I believe Trapper was
too.
____________________________________________________________________________
___
In one episode Hawkeye tells Frank that "this is my second one" (war).
However,it was never mentioned that Hawkeye was a surgeon in WWII,in fact it
was never mentioned that Hawkeye meant WWII at all when he made the above
statement,although judging from his age he did mean WWII.
So,we can safely assume that Hawkeye is prior service.And as such would have
been recalled back to service with at least the rank below the one he held
at discharge from the Army at the end of WWII.
Assuming he was a surgeon in WWII,he would have been made a Captain upon
being drafted into the Army the first time around.And when he is recalled to
serve in Korea he would have been ranked no lower than a First Louie or he
would have have his Captains rank reinstated.
Maybe his 201 file kept him from achieving a higher rank upon being recalled
to Korea
Or maybe I'm just nitpicking,hehehehehe.
-Doug
We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals - Immanuel Kant
____________________________________________________________________________
___
> >Henry was
> >no more a military man than any of the Swamp rats -- I doubt that he
EARNED
> >a promotion. So I must assume that different people were assigned
different
> >ranks at the time they were drafted, with some criteria being used to
> >distinguish between the draftees.
>
> The distinguished between experience. Henry had more than Hawkeye and
Trapper.
> BJ was fresh out of residency.
> CEW was a Major because of his experience and was close to becoming the
Chief
> of Thoracics at Boston Medical. He too had more experience than Hawkeye,
> Trapper and BJ.
> Henry and CEW were doctors longer than any of the rest, other than Potter.
Same
> applied to Frank Burns. FB was in practice for three years and already had
a
> $35,000 house and two cars when Hawkeye and Trapper were called up.
John Martin
wrote:
>
>
>I think Potter could easily have stopped that order. As a CO he did have
>authority over everyone in camp. There are numerous situations where that is
>shown.
No doubt, but thats the way the military works, any higher officer can
turn over an order of an officer under his command.
As far as margeret, the episode you are referring to is the one, I
asssumed she was OD because of the name plate, and that the position
would rotate among the officers regardless of gender.
john martin
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: In one episode Hawkeye tells Frank that "this is my second one" (war).
Which one? I think I remember it, but only vaguely.
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
:>"Brad" mouse...@hotmail.com
:>Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's office,
:>with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
: Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there.
That's my bet. I'll wager Frank was OD of record that day. Anyone with the
DVD wanna watch the episode uncut and find out whether it's explicit who
was OD?
Brad Filippone
: ESolomonso <esolo...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
: :>"Brad" mouse...@hotmail.com
: :>Date: 09/01/2002 10:36 PM
: :>I can think of one time only, but even that time is not so official. In "To
: :>Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's office,
: :>with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
: :
: : Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there.
: That's my bet. I'll wager Frank was OD of record that day. Anyone with the
: DVD wanna watch the episode uncut and find out whether it's explicit who
: was OD?
Something I've always wondered about the task of "officer of the day."
There seems to be only five officer stationed at the M*A*S*H at any one
time, including Margaret.
1. Hawkeye (or, presumeably Dupree in "Temporary Duty")
2. Trapper or B.J.
3. Frank or Charles.
4. Henry or Potter.
5. Margaret
So why do we see the "Officer of the Day" armband so seldom? Shouldn't it
be one of the five at any and all times?
The Other Brad
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/02/2002 10:02 AM
>In one episode Hawkeye tells Frank that "this is my second one" (war).
Which ep is this? Somehow, I think he meant something else.
>However,it was never mentioned that Hawkeye was a surgeon in WWII,in fact it
>was never mentioned that Hawkeye meant WWII at all when he made the above
>statement,although judging from his age he did mean WWII.
WW II ended on 9/2/45, five years before Korea started. When would he have been
drafted for WW II? It would have to be before that date and would he have been
drafted before finishing his residency? Would he have been eligible is a better
way of asking.
>So,we can safely assume that Hawkeye is prior service.
I never came to that assumption.
Janie
> However,it was never mentioned that Hawkeye was a surgeon in WWII,in fact
it
> was never mentioned that Hawkeye meant WWII at all when he made the above
> statement,although judging from his age he did mean WWII.
> So,we can safely assume that Hawkeye is prior service.And as such would
have
> been recalled back to service with at least the rank below the one he held
> at discharge from the Army at the end of WWII.
> Assuming he was a surgeon in WWII,he would have been made a Captain upon
> being drafted into the Army the first time around.And when he is recalled
to
> serve in Korea he would have been ranked no lower than a First Louie or he
> would have have his Captains rank reinstated.
> Maybe his 201 file kept him from achieving a higher rank upon being
recalled
> to Korea
> Or maybe I'm just nitpicking,hehehehehe.
>
> -Doug
>
IIRC, there is an ep (when there is a visiting surgeon that is upstaging
Hawkeye) where the visiting surgeon states that if Hawkeye were home, he
would be fresh out of residency. Hawkeye replied with something to the
effect that since being in Korea, he has done more operations than he would
in a lifetime back home (something like that). Hawkeye is also referred to
as a "young doctor" several times.
I have never heard any inkling that Hawkeye was in WWII, in fact, I think
it's ludicrous and impossible. The only character that served in WWII was
Potter.
Brad
> Doug <dou...@bright.net> wrote:
> : In one episode Hawkeye tells Frank that "this is my second one" (war).
>
> Which one? I think I remember it, but only vaguely.
Yes, Hawkeye said this in the episode "Mail Call", after Frank said that war
always increases stocks or something. However, it should be noted that
Hawkeye was joking.
--
Brad
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/02/2002 5:57 PM
>I have never heard any inkling that Hawkeye was in WWII, in fact, I think
>it's ludicrous and impossible. The only character that served in WWII was
>Potter.
Agreed. The only other possibility of anyone from the 4077 serving in WW II,
besides Potter, would be Margaret since she was in the service for ten years.
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/02/2002 5:57 PM
>IIRC, there is an ep (when there is a visiting surgeon that is upstaging
>Hawkeye) where the visiting surgeon states that if Hawkeye were home, he
>would be fresh out of residency.
That wouldn't have stopped him from being drafted. BJ was just out of residency
when he was called up.
Brad
> ESolomonso <esolo...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
> :>"Brad" mouse...@hotmail.com
> :>Date: 09/01/2002 10:36 PM
> :>I can think of one time only, but even that time is not so official. In
"To
> :>Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's
office,
> :>with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
> :
> : Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there.
>
> That's my bet. I'll wager Frank was OD of record that day. Anyone with the
> DVD wanna watch the episode uncut and find out whether it's explicit who
> was OD?
It's not explicit. Margaret was sitting behind the desk that had "Officer of
The Day" written on the name plate. Meanwhile, Hawkeye and Trapper were
trying to remove Henry's desk from his office. Frank Burns goes in to
investigate. Margaret hears noises from where she is sitting -- at the desk
where she is working with the Officer of The Day name plate. As far as I'm
concerned, she was supposed to be OD.
Otherwise the prop guy just left the OD plate on the desk where Margaret
just happened to be doing what seemed to be OD duties.
When Frank and Margaret meet in Henry's office, it's as though they haven't
seen each other for awhile. It doesn't seem like Frank was OD, got up to
investigate a noise in Henry's office, and said "here Margaret, you sit
behind this desk with the OD name plate while I go and inevestigate that
strange sound in Henry's office".
--
Brad
John Tidwell
>
> I have never heard any inkling that Hawkeye was in WWII, in fact, I think
> it's ludicrous and impossible. The only character that served in WWII was
> Potter.
Are we sure that Henry Blake didn't serve during WWII? Prior service would
help explain why he was in command of a MASH unit in Korea.
As to Hawkeye's "2nd war" comment- maybe he meant that Korea was the 2nd
war to involve America during his life time. He certainly would have felt
involved in WWII, even as a teenager on the home front.
John
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/03/2002 12:05 AM
>Are we sure that Henry Blake didn't serve during WWII? Prior service would
>help explain why he was in command of a MASH unit in Korea.
Never heard that Henry served in WW II.
Your Name Here
>"ESolomonso" wrote:
> >wedg...@yahoo.com (John Tidwell)
> >Date: 09/03/2002 12:05 AM
>
> >Are we sure that Henry Blake didn't serve during WWII? Prior service
would
> >help explain why he was in command of a MASH unit in Korea.
>
> Never heard that Henry served in WW II.
>
> Eddie
I think any prior war service was mentioned in the movie, and maybe the
book.
George B. Eldredge, Jr.
don't forget that every nurse was an officer, as well as father mulcahy.
also, there are some allusions to other surgeons being stationed at the
4077, we just don't see them.
Hogne B. Pettersen
|
| don't forget that every nurse was an officer, as well as father mulcahy.
| also, there are some allusions to other surgeons being stationed at the
| 4077, we just don't see them.
I've never bought that assumption that there were other surgeons at the 4077th.
When the compound was filled with wounded and Hawk & co were in surgery for
days, where were these other surgeons?
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: "Janie" <nos...@nothing.com> wrote in message news:<A9Rc9.43924$1r.12...@twister.nyc.rr.com>...
:>
:> I have never heard any inkling that Hawkeye was in WWII, in fact, I think
:> it's ludicrous and impossible.
: As to Hawkeye's "2nd war" comment- maybe he meant that Korea was the 2nd
: war to involve America during his life time. He certainly would have felt
: involved in WWII, even as a teenager on the home front.
'Mail Call' was just on here last week, and I found it on my temporary
tape this morning. Since the context of Hawkeye's comment was playing the
stock market rather than serving, on top of the preponderance of other
reasoning on this thread I think we can throw out the notion that Hawkeye
served in WWII.
Apropos of a past discussion, of whether Frank ever meant to marry Hot
Lips: It is evident from several exchanges of dialog between them in 'Mail
Call' that Frank has promised to divorce his wife and marry Hot Lips when
he can "afford a wife *and* an ex-wife"; but it's also evident that he has
no intention ofkeeping the promise (even if Pioneer Aviation pans out
...).
Brad Filippone
: In article <al03s6$ok6$2...@News.Dal.Ca>, al...@chebucto.ns.ca says...
Forgot about Mulcahy. I didn't realise the nurses were high in rank (and
I thought I knew this show!)
The Other Brad
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
:>"ESolomonso" wrote:
:> Never heard that Henry served in WW II.
:
: I think any prior war service was mentioned in the movie, and maybe the
: book.
Non sequitur. In the movie and the book, Henry was Regular Army instead of
a draftee.
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: "PAUL GADZIKOWSKI" <scar...@shell1.iglou.com> wrote in message
: news:3d738...@news.iglou.com...
:> ESolomonso <esolo...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
:> :>Market To Market", Hot-Lips is sitting behind a desk outside Radar's
: office,
:> :>with the name plate "Officer of the Day".
:> :
:> : Maybe that was the desk for the OD and Margaret just sat there.
:>
:> That's my bet. I'll wager Frank was OD of record that day. Anyone with the
:> DVD wanna watch the episode uncut and find out whether it's explicit who
:> was OD?
:
: It's not explicit. Margaret was sitting behind the desk that had "Officer of
: The Day" written on the name plate. Meanwhile, Hawkeye and Trapper were
: trying to remove Henry's desk from his office. Frank Burns goes in to
: investigate. Margaret hears noises from where she is sitting -- at the desk
: where she is working with the Officer of The Day name plate. As far as I'm
: concerned, she was supposed to be OD.
Well, in the absence of the armband on either Frank or Hot Lips, it seems
implicit that Hot Lips was O.D. at the time. I just don't believe that the
command structure of the unit was such that Hot Lips was eligible. But
that's a technical question in an area where I'm no expert; I'm just
responding to impressions of military procedure I have from M*A*S*H.
Anyone here know 1950s army medical corps command structure? Were nurse
commanders part of the chain of command?
Gian Mignone
> war to involve America during his life time. He certainly would have felt
> involved in WWII, even as a teenager on the home front.
Remember Hawk was drafted right out of residency. He would have been in
med school during WWII. I think that would have made him ineligible for
the draft.
Yawgoog
>When the compound was filled with wounded and Hawk & co were in surgery for
days, where were these other surgeons?
Off-camera. :-) Maybe in other emergency rooms.
Hogne B. Pettersen
ESolomonso
>Date: 09/04/2002 3:29 AM
>| >When the compound was filled with wounded and Hawk & co were in surgery
>for
>| days, where were these other surgeons?
>|
>| Off-camera. :-) Maybe in other emergency rooms.
>The one that Tuttle built?
>
They were on the bench like 2nd and 3rd string surgeons.
JayZ755
also, there are some allusions to other surgeons being stationed at the
4077, we just don't see them.
It's safe to say the show was inconsistent in this regard. There are the
references to "both shifts" several times, and since we often see the four
regular surgeons working together, it could be presumed that the other shift
contained other doctors. There were various personnel - "George" and others -
who were sometimes seen doing doctor-type stuff in the O.R. with the rest of
the surgeons. The nurses other than Houlihan were still officers. The chopper
pilots, if they were stationed in the camp, were officers. There evidently was
usually a dentist stationed in the camp, and he was an officer too.
But often the show acted like the regular characters were the only officers
available. Mulcahy came to the staff meetings, but the other nurses were never
invited. The other doctors were never asked to sign any papers in lieu of
Frank. Radar had to help out in the O.R. during emergencies, but never the
dentist.
Jay
This space intentionally left blank.
PAUL GADZIKOWSKI
: But often the show acted like the regular characters were the only officers
: available.
This is true.
: Mulcahy came to the staff meetings, but the other nurses were never
: invited.
This is true but beside the point you're trying to make. Staff meetings
are for department heads. E.g., in the PA announcement at the beginning of
'Crisis', all the regulars but Klinger (and Radar, but he was already
there) (leaving aside the discussion of whether Farr and Christopher were
yet regulars technically) were called to Henry's office by "Senior
surgical staff and Father Mulcahy".
Mibbitmaker
condition where there are many people in a work situation, but only a few of
them seem to matter; the regulars. Sometimes an irregular character is there,
like Capt. Spaulding in the nurse-evacuation one. With such a malady, the crew
often forgets the extra characters even exist off-stage. It was even worse
during the Vietnam war, when one hospital had only 1 or 2 surgeons serving at
China Beach.
On a less satirical note, regarding Henry being in charge, possibly it's due to
him having administrative experience in his private practice (assuming that to
be the case).
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"If there were more men like you, there'd be less men like you"
"...Because Buckwheat would've wanted it that way."
;-)