Fake SEALS
Beverly Kai
heros.
Thanks to you folks, I know that the Seals, per se, didn't exist in
Vietnam, - - -and I remember that my Scuba instructor was obsessive
about his 'Seals service" in the Vietnam war.
He had no visible scars, yet said half his face had been blown off.
Since I could barely carry my tank from the truck to the water when I
was taking the course, he wasn't sure he would let me into 'his' ocean.
(Underwater, weightless, I am fine.)
My PADI card was in the same case as my passport when the thieves got
into my apartment. I have the instructor's name and number in my
textbook, and will use that to replace the card.
Moral dilemma: After fifteen years, do I "out' the guy?? He knew his
stuff, and was familiar with the bottom of Shark's Cove (North Shore).
He certified me.
I think I would be a lot happier in life if I weren't a Virgo.
Intellectually I know I can't fix everything.
That doesn't keep me from trying to sweeten Freddie's disposition, for
example.
I guess I just go after the challenge.
:-)
Off Topic: The annual mindset orientation for Beloit College faculty
has just come out.
This year's entering freshman class was born in 1984. For them, Barbie
has always had a job. Cars have always had air bags and CDs. On and
on.
(It is a given that we all know who Baribe is.)
I emailed the list to my daughter, and she wrote back that she has
already had to explain to her kids that people didnt't always walk
around with phones on their ears, and she grew up without DVDs.
She had to leave the house to see a movie.
I reacall my son's famous remark when, in 1969, I tried to explain radio
serial dramas, such as the Lone Ranger, to him.
"Where did you put your eyes???" he asked.
How many plot twists in MPI couldn't be used today because of the
'progress' of tech toys???
I can think of a car chase where Higgins had a bomb in his car and
didn't know it.
TM couldn't phone him. He had to get him off the road at Queen's Beach
(next to Sandy) before the car blew up.
Any others????
Bev in Kaka`ako
David Wisniewski
> Vietnam, - - -and I remember that my Scuba instructor was obsessive
> about his 'Seals service" in the Vietnam war.
They sure did "officially" exist.
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/personnel/seals/seals.html
"During the 1960s, each branch of the armed forces formed its own
counterinsurgency force. The Navy utilized UDT personnel to form
separate units called SEAL teams. January 1962 marked the commissioning
of SEAL Team ONE in the Pacific Fleet and SEAL Team TWO in the Atlantic
Fleet. These teams were developed to conduct unconventional warfare,
counter-guerilla warfare and clandestine operations in both blue and
brown water environments.
Concurrently, Naval Operations Support Groups were formed to aid UDTs,
SEALs, and two other unique units — Boat Support and Beach Jumpers — in
administration, planning, research, and development. During the Vietnam
War, UDTs performed reconnaissance missions and SEALs carried out
numerous offensive operations. In 1967, the Naval Operations Support
Groups were renamed Naval Special Warfare Groups (NSWGs) as involvement
increased in limited conflicts and special operations."
--
David Wisniewski USPSA/IPSC A-28835
davi...@erols.com http://www.geocities.com/davidwiz_2000
USPSA MidAtlantic Section http://www.uspsa-ma.org
"While we're gone, if any talking animals tell you to buy some tacos
or beer, for God's sake do what they say."
-- Casey McCall, "Sports Night"
David Romas
>Thanks to you folks, I know that the Seals, per se, didn't
>exist in Vietnam
I wonder what has been said on the newsgroup that would have
suggested this to you, Bev...? SEALs certainly did exist
during the war. By now they've evolved into something rather
different than what they were back then. But they *were* in
Vietnam. For example, the portrayal of Magnum as a SEAL in
Vietnam, while fiction, is authentic.
David Romas
Magnum Memorabilia
Beverly Kai
SEAL which caused me to write a misleading post.
I guess "per se" was muddy writing. No, I KNOW "per se" was muddy
writing.
Sorry.
Bev in Kaka`ako
Ron
"Beverly Kai" <Hawa...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16297-3E...@storefull-2194.public.lawson.webtv.net...
This is a subject I know a bit about. I served 6 years in the Marines with
Force Recon and I have met many fake SEALs and fake Recons. There are
message boards that you can check the credibility of a SEAL. You post as
much information as you can, and the Frogs at the Pentagon will check it
against Class Records for anyone and everyone that ever went to BUD/S
training.
There is an entire group that does nothing BUT bust fake Military. Medals,
etc .. something we hold very dear, and people try to con others using them.
Go to this message board.
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=3c23996dba565dcb91baeb7fd
6b6ae8b&forumid=199
and read a few of the phony checks to see the format. Then post as much
information as you can. The administrators of that board namely "Trident86"
is an active SEAL that works in Navy SEALRecords at the Pentagon and has
access of every class list there has ever been. He was actually in the news
during 9/11 for heroism.
If he's a fake... bust him, its all he deserves plain and simple.
Beverly Kai
I have heard that if someone tells war stories about their time as a
SEAL, they are fake.
The man I have described was so obsessed, talked constantly about being
a SEAL, and the day Admiral Zumwalt's son died of exposure, essentially,
to Agent Orange, he opened a conversation with me with, 'Zumwalt's boy
croaked."
Since Admiral Zumwalt had ordered the use of Agent Orange, and that
personal tragedy was in the news, I realized that my Scuba instructor
was not only a fake, but a nut case.
I am going to explore the link to the fake-busters. A certain blowhard
relative needs to be checked out. We all 'know' this guy. He drinks,
is in sales, and is great fun at a party. At least for the first ten
years.
Bev in Kaka`ako
Ron
> Many thanks for the web link.
>
> I have heard that if someone tells war stories about their time as a
> SEAL, they are fake.
Not necessarily true. They are only fake if they DIDNT go through BUD/s. ;)
It takes all kinds, seriously. I have met some of the most wacked out brain
dead guys that ran their mouths 24/7 and they were special ops and I have
met very quiet guys that you would think were cooks that have more medals
than I could have ever even been eligible for. I have also met more than 250
people that have claimed to be SEALs.. which means that most of them are
liars. Its an ongoing joke in the Corps.. all the Navy guys we met claimed
to be SEALs but what they didnt know... I dont think too highly of them. I
trained with them on several occasions and was not impressed.
I even met the infamous Richard Marcinko...... and blasted him in the gut
with a paint grenade from my 203, and CSed him and his buddies till they
cried and we chased them from our 'special weapons' installation as they
were trying to break in.
>
> The man I have described was so obsessed, talked constantly about being
> a SEAL, and the day Admiral Zumwalt's son died of exposure, essentially,
> to Agent Orange, he opened a conversation with me with, 'Zumwalt's boy
> croaked."
>
> Since Admiral Zumwalt had ordered the use of Agent Orange, and that
> personal tragedy was in the news, I realized that my Scuba instructor
> was not only a fake, but a nut case.
>
> I am going to explore the link to the fake-busters. A certain blowhard
> relative needs to be checked out. We all 'know' this guy. He drinks,
> is in sales, and is great fun at a party. At least for the first ten
> years.
>
> Bev in Kaka`ako
>
Yeah, post as much information about him as you can. Full name, Age and what
he has said he has done. Trident will check him out for you and respond back
very quickly. That entire board is a "phony check." I get a big kick out of
them busting people on their lies, its a great laugh. One of the best ones
yet....... go read this one, "Army Reserve Phony Seal Check."
This guy really gets a prize for being so ignorant. He is in the Army
Reserves, got put in the Army Reserve Magazine.... and has a Trident [the
SEAL badge] on his uniform. Somebody posts about it.. Trident checks it
out... he's a liar. Read the thread to see what happened, but in the
military wearing fake badges/medals is a felony. I think Trident was calling
his commanding officer or something, great fun.
Here's a link to the guy's picture in the magazine. Page 53... the birdman.
http://www.army.mil/usar/armag/spring2002.pdf
Here is the excerpt from the check.
"Came across an Article in Army Reserve Magazine while at Drill the other
day, about a SFC in the Army Reserve who carves birds or some ****. That
wasn't what caught my eye... what caught my eye was the big BUDWEISER above
his US ARMY name tape on his BDU's. Upon closer inspection, I saw no jump
wings, no Tab, nothing else that would denote any type of Special Operator,
other than that Budweiser. Funnier still, in the Article, it states that he
started out in the Marine Corps, then did a short stint in the Navy, then
the National Guard, and finally the Army Reserve. And, in the Army, he's
with a Support Group. Just didn't click with me for some reason. However,
I've been known to be wrong from time to time..(okay.. more often than NOT..
but hey, who's counting?)
His name is SFC Jeff Wardwell. The earliest service reference I can give you
on him is that he was a Marine back in 1980 (so the article says...)
stationed at Quantico. For further reference, here is a link to the
magazine. It's in PDF format, but you can go to page 53 and it's titled "The
'Birdman' of the 653d ASG"
Here are some replies from the Active Team Guys.
"In case there is any doubt: no "Jeff Wardwell", or anyone close has ever
graduated from UDT/SEAL training since the mid-1940s, so this guy was
definitely NEVER a SEAL. Remember that wearing of unauthorized insignia is
punishable under the UCMJ. If anyone has a picture of this a@@hole in
uniform wearing a Trident, please forward same to webm...@cyberseals.org
and we'll see what we can do to help this guy's career out. Thanks again!!!"
"T-86 - what's been done so far? Just want to coordinate the bust. I'll be
happy to call his C.O. Probably need to notify the magazine too. Next time
I'm at the Pentagon, I'll drop by Kathy Condon's office at OSD Army reserve
Affairs and let her know too."
Its great fun to watch the threads as they unravel.
Merry Christmas,
Ron
Beverly Kai
Thus I am mystefied why ANYONE would have '"Budweiser" on his uni.
In my little world, that is American for "beer'.
That reminds me again of that blowhard relative. Said he was the CO of
an Army reserve unit.
I met someone in another context who was also in the Reserve at the same
Post. He never heard of my relative.
It would be entirely in character for him to put eagles on his shoulders
for family parties, 'to make the family feel good'.
If it all unravels in a group'sthread, that would be so delicious. . .
..
Thanks again. When Xmas is over, I will read more closely and take
action.
Bev in Kaka`ako
K M
KM
"Ron" <r...@nospam.rongeorge.com> wrote in message
news:-t2cnedWota...@comcast.com...
Ron
"K M" <kylem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0GsO9.3315$Pm2.2...@feed2.centurytel.net...
> Where and when was your run in with Marcinko?
>
> KM
It was either late 88 or early 89 in Guam. I cant remember which because the
season never changes there. Red Cell was trying to break into the Marine
Weapons Installation there. They never did.. they tried twice. They did end
up planting a fake bomb in the PX on the Navy Base though. This was WAY
before they were famous. Our CO gave us a talk about some of the things they
had done and told us how to treat them if we saw them. We treated them
accordingly.
I dont know how much longer afterwards.. but they all got busted, that team
got broken up.. and most of them got dishonorable discharges. All I know, is
they were damn lucky we couldnt get ahold of them.
MSU94
>I dont know how much longer afterwards.. but they all got busted, that team
>got broken up.. and most of them got dishonorable discharges. All I know, is
>they were damn lucky we couldnt get ahold of them.
>
>
What were they getting busted for?
Ron
"MSU94" <ms...@aol.com362436> wrote in message
news:20021227020728...@mb-ch.aol.com...
I think in Dick's first book he talked about 'his version' of what happened.
Essentially the entire team went bonkers. The team was created to test out
our Nuclear Weapons Program Security. If any of you are familiar with it,
its called PRP. Every base that has any type of Nuclear Weapon at all.. or
anything similiar, is governed by a special set of rules.. PRP [Personal
Reliability Program]. Well, this team was somehow picked to start testing
base security around the world.
The thing was ... they took it way too serious. They stopped reporting to
their CO.. they flew around the world picking bases at random and doing
horrendous things.
They would capture and torture [seriously] Base Commanders until they got
the authorization to enter the most secure parts of the base. They attempted
rape on someone's wife to coerse him into giving them access. They fired
live rounds by someone's head to scare them into gaining access. They stole
vehicles, they took over buildings and dared MP's to take it from them. They
kidnapped many people to gain access. Granted these things can really
happen.... but they took it to extremes. They hooked up car batteries to
people, etc.
A few of them didnt even show up for their discharge... they had to be
hunted down and arrested. Officially I think they got booted for "Theft,
Kidnapping, Torture." Im not really clear on exactly what happened, I just
know from what was related to me after they tried to get in our base. It was
big news in the PRP program when they got busted. We all had letters sent
out to each platoon to briefly talk about what happened. I think Dick talks
about it and says something like "most of it are lies and miscommunication:
We did things that really could have happened, but people were afraid to
talk about it." Dont quote me on this, but I think thats generally what he
said. Its in his first book in the very beginning.
When we heard they caught a plane in Hawaii headed for Guam we had everyone
move on base. One of their things was catching people in off base Housing
and kidnapping them. At that time we had about 60 Nuclear Weapons on the
base. We were totally prepared. When motion sensors went off near the north
end of the base.. we went wild. Thats why they were lucky we didnt get ahold
of them. The only thing they got were some 40mm Paint Grenades in the FLAK
Vests and enough CS to choke a football field full of people.
Beverly Kai
Bev in Kaka`ako
K M
mentioned in the 60 Minutes expose on Richard Marcinko and the team when it
was broadcast in the early 90s. I have looked and found no such mention of
the charges of the rest of the TEAM. Marcinko himself took the shoulder of
the blame. And since they were operating as a terrorist group when breaking
into bases I am sure that no terrorist in reality would do such dire things.
Oh wait, maybe that is why they are called terrorists to begin with. I am
not disputing your allegations but have never seen any proof. Funny that so
much time would pass and no mention of how the Red Cell was so wrong.
KM
"Ron" <r...@nospam.rongeorge.com> wrote in message
news:7Rqdnb9h2dm...@comcast.com...
Ron
> Not that they are the definitive source on things, but none of this was
> mentioned in the 60 Minutes expose on Richard Marcinko and the team when
it
> was broadcast in the early 90s. I have looked and found no such mention of
> the charges of the rest of the TEAM. Marcinko himself took the shoulder of
> the blame. And since they were operating as a terrorist group when
breaking
> into bases I am sure that no terrorist in reality would do such dire
things.
> Oh wait, maybe that is why they are called terrorists to begin with. I am
> not disputing your allegations but have never seen any proof. Funny that
so
> much time would pass and no mention of how the Red Cell was so wrong.
>
> KM
I never saw the 60 Minutes episode. I was probably still in the service if
it was early 90s. I didnt get out until after Somalia.
I think Dick took a lot of the blame. From what I remember in his book, he
talked about him being responsible because he was the Commanding Officer,
duty of leadership, etc. The team got charged also, there is no such thing
as 'following orders.' Under the UCMJ you have the duty and coherence to
follow a 'lawful order' only. I dont know the extent of the charges though
to be honest. It was all quieted very quickly. This was around the time of
Saudi Arabia, etc. No one wanted bad press. Dick had served 30 years of
faithful service... the Navy probably didnt see a reason to further
humiliate him.
I do see where your statement comes from though, this one in particular.
> And since they were operating as a terrorist group when breaking
> into bases I am sure that no terrorist in reality would do such dire
things.
> Oh wait, maybe that is why they are called terrorists to begin with.
Albeit a bit sarcastic [ ;) ]. The simple answer to that is there is a
difference between training and actual happenings. Can you honestly try to
defend hooking up a Base Commander to a Car Battery torturing him to give
you pass phrases because it 'could' happen? If you can, then your definition
of training is much different than any other definition of it I have ever
witnessed. And if I could be so bold, I dont think your training program
would be very successful. If you ran a training facility at a Police
Station would you use real bullets and real ball bats because thats how
criminals would be armed? There is a level of realism that we need to keep
down. tortures and deaths are something that should be kept to a minimum
during training, ;) What if you were 15 and your father was a Base CO... one
night some guys came in, tied you up, and tortured your father for hours..
what would you think? How would you act if you found out that it was
'training' and those guys were actually Active Duty Navy Personnel? I hope
to God that America never comes to that point. The primary purpose of
training is to learn. No one learns anything in those sort of situations.
There is a line that we must draw. Torturing and Kidnapping our own Military
for training purposes is not something a reasonable society would allow and
it is also against the UCMJ, which rules us all.
I hope that helps your understanding a bit more.
Ron