5 BILLION Beans
thinbluemime
s 01 e 18 Numbers
Here is what Martha tells Hurley about Sam:
That's right, they served together in the U.S. Navy. How is Leonard? Still
in the service? Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post
monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam
hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Til one
night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes
through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again.
A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how
many beans are in that jar, within 10.
4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
what would be the displacement or volumne of space required to contain 5
billion?
Is this even possible?
thinbluemime
wrote:
> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>
> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
> what would be the displacement or volumne of space required to contain 5
> billion?
> Is this even possible?
Somebody check my math, these figures are approx:
2500 beans per liter
5 billion (4,815,162,342) beans divided by 2500 is 2 million liters
3.78 liters per gallon
2 million (2,000,000) divided by 3.78 equals 529 thousand gallons ?
529,100 gallons?
this aint possible! ! Ive seen a 30 thousand gallon swimming pool
and there is no way a circus show is gonna carry round that many beans
Check my math, please
I think Martha might belong in the Hurley Ward too
Nathan Sanders
thinbluemime <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote:
> A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
> there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
> the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how
> many beans are in that jar, within 10.
>
> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
> what would be the displacement or volumne of space required to contain 5
> billion?
> Is this even possible?
Estimating a bean to be a sphere with a total width of 1/8", you'd
need a cube about 14.36 feet on each size to hold 5 billion beans.
That's about the size of a respectable living room (about 19 feet x 19
feet with an 8 foot ceiling).
That's clearly much bigger than a pony, so it doesn't quite work out.
Nathan
--
Survivor: Panama Certainty Contest
http://wso.williams.edu/~nsanders/atscc/index.html
Palpie
wrote:
Yes this was discussed the first time Numbers aired, perhaps it should
be in the FAQ since someone new feels compelled to bring it up every
month or so. Either the writers just had Sam string the numbers
together and didn't consider the physical problem or he 'used' the
numbers in a different way (ie multiplying them which gives a more
managable 7 million). It doesn't really matter, the point of the
conversation was Sam and Leonard thought the numbers were cursed just
like Hurley does, while Sam's widow made the sensible point it was
just life. The bean counting incident will most likely never be
mentioned again.
Asterbark
Never mind that it's literally impossible for one person to count that
high in their life.
Bob Geary
Further proof that "Lost" doesn't take place on Earth - our ponies
aren't that big.
Angela St.Aubin
"thinbluemime" <thinbl...@tbm.com> wrote in message
news:op.s4dt8...@emachine-3000.belkin...
She never said that he used ALL the numbers, or used them in that order or
anything, so this is kind of a silly thread, IMHO.
Vladimir Niksic
> anything, so this is kind of a silly thread, IMHO.
Perhaps the guy running the scam just made up a number (4815162342), and he
got that right?
thinbluemime
wrote:
> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
NO
There is something wrong here
1) An impossible bean count - 5 billion
2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
(has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
3) This contest was fixed...either by Wally, Sam, Martha or someone else
4) Hurley would not be on LOST if the above had not occured
Something isn't right here and may be core to the LOST secrets
Bizzarr0
a carnie(small hands, smell like cabbage) would never give 50 grand
without verification. But the fact is that the woman only mentions the
numbers by "name." Never by actually saying the numbers. So her numbers
could not only be a shorter version of the numbers, they could be
different numbers all together. Or as someone else said they could be the
numbers added together and multiplied. Bottom line, this isn't a writers
error this is simply a writers perogitive to leave out the details. If
this is significant it will only be significant when the writer makes it
so. Otherwise it's too unqualified to base any theories on.
Bizzarr0
Ted
thinbluemime wrote:
snip
> 2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
> never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
> (has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
snip
All you need to do is engrave a plaque with the numbers on it (whether
or not that's how many beans there are), and reveal the last few numbers
to show the guesses are not within 10 (to avoid people seeing the entire
set of numbers, following you, and getting 50k). The grifter might not
have thought anyone would ever come to within 10 of the number, so
didn't have a contingency plan, with a different initial number on a
swappable plaque.
Or it could have been a Dharma plot, the numbers were seeded by the
transmission, and the Initiative went off to add significance to the
random numbers including sending around a guy with beans and the right
numbers on the plaque (or maybe they simply seeded the numbers and are
waiting around to observe the results in a long term experiment).
Davlo
> what would be the displacement or volumne of space required to contain 5
> billion?
> Is this even possible?
Yes, with teeny tiny beans. Really teeny tiny.
rwgibson13
Counted by a "really teeny tiny bean-counting" machine :-)
RWG (which might still take years to count accurately)
Bob Geary
Well, you could go a lot faster if you counted them by threes.
rwgibson13
Hmm, so that would make it really teeny tiny beans being counted by
threes by a really teeny tiny bean-counting machine.
RWG (I dare anyone to say THAT five times really fast :-)
rob...@bestweb.net
> > 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
> NO
> There is something wrong here
> 1) An impossible bean count - 5 billion
> 2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
> never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
> (has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
People have pointed out that the dialog is vague enough that the
reference to USING The Numbers doesn't have to result in that near 5
billion fig.
> 3) This contest was fixed...either by Wally, Sam, Martha or someone else
> 4) Hurley would not be on LOST if the above had not occured
> Something isn't right here and may be core to the LOST secrets
My sol'n is much simpler. Sam & Wally never existed, Martha & Lenny
told phony stories, and the stories were all concocted specifically to
GET Hurley "on Lost". The impossible bean count may or may not have
been a clue to that, depending on one's interpret'n of using the
numbers.
But I think we have other clues adequate to lead to my solution. If
everything truly happens for a reason, as "Lost" says, then unless
we're to take "reason" to mean "final cause" (teleologic), it must
refer to "efficient cause" (mechanism). There are enough clues in
general in & about "Lost" to say it's efficient cause, the working of a
conspiracy.
If the Martha-Lenny story were true, then the lottery would've had to
be rigged so that someone who knew Lenny would play the lottery and win
it. Leaving aside the rigging of the lottery, how would they have
known that someone who knew Lenny would pick The Numbers THAT TIME?
Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
Robert
tdciago
thinbluemime wrote:
> Here is what Martha tells Hurley about Sam:
> A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
> there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
> the rim with beans.
I just read a Television Without Pity forum thread which mentioned
that, in Australia, a pony is another name for a keg. So it's possible
that the jar was only the size of a keg, which would mean that some
combination of the numbers other than 4,815,162,342 was used to win.
But I'm also wondering if "pony" was supposed to make us think of the
Trojan Horse. Was this pony-sized jar Dharma's way of sneaking into
Sam's life? There is also the computer version of a trojan horse that
may be referenced here, which leads to the concept of a virus, which
leads to QUARANTINE.
clau...@webtv.net
them in a container and weigh them. Then just keep filling up the
container and weighing it until you get to 5 billion or whatever. I
mean, I know counting beans to 10,000 woud take awhile in itself but
less then counting each bean to 5 billion. lol
Melroseman
> thinbluemime wrote:
>
>>Here is what Martha tells Hurley about Sam:
>
>> A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
>>there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
>>the rim with beans.
All we know is "Sam USED the numbers." There are hundreds of ways to use
those numbers.
4+8+15+16+23+42=108 not likely as big as a pony.
4*8*15*16*23*42=7,418,880 likely too much.
4+8+15+16+23*42=1009 maybe.
4*8*15*16*23+42=7745 likely.
...
> I just read a Television Without Pity forum thread which mentioned
> that, in Australia, a pony is another name for a keg. So it's possible
> that the jar was only the size of a keg, which would mean that some
> combination of the numbers other than 4,815,162,342 was used to win.
>
> But I'm also wondering if "pony" was supposed to make us think of the
> Trojan Horse. Was this pony-sized jar Dharma's way of sneaking into
> Sam's life? There is also the computer version of a trojan horse that
> may be referenced here, which leads to the concept of a virus, which
> leads to QUARANTINE.
"On the way home, a pickup truck blows a tire on the highway,
hits us head-on. Lost my leg that night."
Didn't Ray Mullen have a pickup truck and a missing arm? hmm..
Isn't this accident similar to what happened between Shannon's father
and Sarah? double hmm...
--
New to alt.tv.lost? Please read the FAQ before posting:
http://www.geocities.com/alt_tv_lost/
Melroseman
> Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
> them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
Didn't we already go through this? Hurley played them once and won:
HURLEY: Awhile ago I was in this kind of psych ward, and there was this
guy, Leonard -- and all the time I knew him all he ever said were these
numbers -- 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 -- over and over and over again. And
they kind of got stuck in my head. So, when I got out -- well, actually
a couple of months after I got out -- I was buying a frozen burrito and
I thought, hey, I should play the lottery. And I guess those numbers
were still stuck in my head so I played them. And I won 114 million
dollars. That's when it started happening -- my grandpa died, my house
caught on fire, the chicken joint that I worked at got hit by a meteor
-- well, actually meteorite. Okay, so tonight I see the same freaking
numbers on the hatch thing -- just written on the side -- and that's why
I tried to stop it -- because that thing is cursed, man.
A frozen burrito?! LOL!
I wonder if Jack wonders about the computer code being Hurley's
numbers... nahhhhhhh.
Tere
Ted wrote:
> thinbluemime wrote:
> snip
> > 2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
> > never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
> > (has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
> snip
>
> All you need to do is engrave a plaque with the numbers on it (whether
> or not that's how many beans there are), and reveal the last few numbers
> to show the guesses are not within 10 (to avoid people seeing the entire
> set of numbers, following you, and getting 50k). The grifter might not
> have thought anyone would ever come to within 10 of the number, so
> didn't have a contingency plan, with a different initial number on a
> swappable plaque.
Yeah, there is an inherent issue of trust. You not just going to pay
tour dollar, make a guess and have the guy say "nope, that's not it.
Sorry." Oh darn! :)
But, played the way you say, it could be easliy beat. Make a guess. He
reveals the last 2-3 digits. Make another guess ending with the digits
he revealed. Now he has to reveal another digit or two. Repeat until he
is forced to reveal all the digits. You might need to enlist multiple
player to keep him from chasing you off after a couple geusses :)
Michel
<clau...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28970-43...@storefull-3113.bay.webtv.net...
clau...@webtv.net
]A sample size of 100 or 200 hundred
]would be big enought.
I thought of putting 100 but figured it would take less times of
refilling and weighing with 10,000 then with 100.
Michel
Then use your calculator to find weight volume of 5 billion.
<clau...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28707-43...@storefull-3118.bay.webtv.net...
tdciago
Melroseman wrote:
> 4+8+15+16+23+42=108 not likely as big as a pony.
> 4*8*15*16*23*42=7,418,880 likely too much.
> 4+8+15+16+23*42=1009 maybe.
> 4*8*15*16*23+42=7745 likely.
Supposedly, the guy had been running the challenge for 40 years, with
no one coming close. Because of that, I'm more inclined to go for the
7,418,880 out of these options. This is assuming that the story she
told is true.
I also don't think that the weighing options noted above would work to
get an accurate count, since the beans would each have slightly
different weights. Certainly if a person is expected to get the count
right within ten, there had better be a way to prove the actual amount
to that degree of precision.
> "On the way home, a pickup truck blows a tire on the highway,
> hits us head-on. Lost my leg that night."
>
> Didn't Ray Mullen have a pickup truck and a missing arm? hmm..
> Isn't this accident similar to what happened between Shannon's father
> and Sarah? double hmm...
Similar right down to the blown tire. It seems that Dharma's good at
blowing tires, detaching limbs, and making the numbers win contests,
with protection for the winner and disaster for everyone close to him.
rob...@bestweb.net
> > Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
> > them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
> Didn't we already go through this? Hurley played them once and won:
> HURLEY: Awhile ago I was in this kind of psych ward, and there was this
> guy, Leonard -- and all the time I knew him all he ever said were these
> numbers -- 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 -- over and over and over again. And
> they kind of got stuck in my head. So, when I got out -- well, actually
> a couple of months after I got out -- I was buying a frozen burrito and
> I thought, hey, I should play the lottery. And I guess those numbers
> were still stuck in my head so I played them.
Did you think that contreadicted what I wrote? That's exactly what I
meant: that Hurley didn't play The Numbers immediately after hearing
them, but only a considerable time later, in which interim many
drawings would've taken place. How could anyone have known WHICH
drawing Hurley would've entered after getting out of the psych ward?
That's why it's too hard to rig the drawing -- which is why the rigging
must've taken place AFTER Hurley won.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> > "On the way home, a pickup truck blows a tire on the highway,
> > hits us head-on. Lost my leg that night."
> > Didn't Ray Mullen have a pickup truck and a missing arm? hmm..
> > Isn't this accident similar to what happened between Shannon's father
> > and Sarah? double hmm...
> Similar right down to the blown tire. It seems that Dharma's good at
> blowing tires, detaching limbs, and making the numbers win contests,
> with protection for the winner and disaster for everyone close to him.
Except it's not really Dharma. And Sarah's accident wasn't arranged.
And in the case of Martha Toomey, only the STORY was rigged.
To produce a "coincidence", you don't have to rig BOTH ends. Just rig
ONE end to match the unrigged one.
Robert
angelsabove
"rwgibson13" <rwgib...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138982511.7...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What about counting the beans by math. Isn't there a formula where you take
the weight of the beans minus the weight of the jar to calculate how many
beans are in the jar? IT's been a while since I did any math like this. I
barely passed physics in highschool. I only passed because I think the
teacher liked me. Not liked me as in had the hots for me but the other like.
Anyway I'm sure some of you mathmaticians know the formula I am refering to.
AA
angel
>4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>
>
>s 01 e 18 Numbers
>
>Here is what Martha tells Hurley about Sam:
>That's right, they served together in the U.S. Navy. How is Leonard? Still
>in the service? Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post
>monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam
>hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Til one
>night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes
>through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again.
>
>
> A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
>there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
>the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how
>many beans are in that jar, within 10.
>
>
>4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>what would be the displacement or volumne of space required to contain 5
>billion?
>Is this even possible?
even bigger question. Who counted all those beans to know it was
nearly 5 billion ?
Asterbark
thinbluemime
>
> Is this even possible?
> Somebody check my math, these figures are approx:
> 2500 beans per liter
> 5 billion (4,815,162,342) beans divided by 2500 is 2 million liters
> 3.78 liters per gallon
> 2 million (2,000,000) divided by 3.78 equals 529 thousand gallons ?
> 529,100 gallons?
> this aint possible! ! Ive seen a 30 thousand gallon swimming pool
> and there is no way a circus show is gonna carry round that many beans
OK, prolly my last thought <wink> on this thread
go here http://www.diamondheadcommunity.com/Swimming%20Pool.htm
Note "Our beautiful 220,000-gallon Olympic size swimming pool"
Now, double that, and add half again, and THATs how many beans 5 BILLION
is <LOL>
There AINT NO WAY
Dave K
thinbluemime wrote:
> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>
>
>
> Here is what Martha tells Hurley about Sam:
> That's right, they served together in the U.S. Navy. How is Leonard? Still
> in the service? Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post
> monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam
> hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Til one
> night, about 16 years ago, there's something in the static, a voice comes
> through, a voice repeating those numbers over and over again.
>
>
> A couple of days later we're at the fair in Kalgoorlie and some wally
> there has got this jar, must have been big as a pony, and it's filled to
> the rim with beans. Fella's offering 50 grand to anyone able to guess how
> many beans are in that jar, within 10.
>
>
>
> billion?
> Is this even possible?
>
> http://users.newblog.com/thinbluemime
Possibility:
The lady is completely full of shit. It was some kind of setup for
Hurley.
tdciago
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> Except it's not really Dharma. And Sarah's accident wasn't arranged.
> And in the case of Martha Toomey, only the STORY was rigged.
>
> To produce a "coincidence", you don't have to rig BOTH ends. Just rig
> ONE end to match the unrigged one.
But Hurley knows nothing about the details of Sarah's accident, or Ray
Mullen's arm, or even Marvin Candle's arm. What is the point of
creating a coincidental fake story when Hurley is completely oblivious
of the coincidence? I see no reason for Jack to ever mention the
details of his ex-wife's accident to Hurley. And Hurley has never
mentioned the Martha Toomey story details to Jack. People tend to not
believe Hurley when he talks about the numbers and the lottery, so he's
not eager to discuss it.
In your theory, is it only the TV audience who is supposed to see these
coincidences? If, within the realm of the story, the organization
behind all this deception is supposed to be real, then creating fake
coincidences solely for the audience takes away from the realism.
When Hurley went to Kalgoorlie to find Sam, he must have asked
directions to the house, since it was in the middle of nowhere. Was
the entire town in on the deception?
rob...@bestweb.net
> > Except it's not really Dharma. And Sarah's accident wasn't arranged.
> > And in the case of Martha Toomey, only the STORY was rigged.
> > To produce a "coincidence", you don't have to rig BOTH ends. Just rig
> > ONE end to match the unrigged one.
> But Hurley knows nothing about the details of Sarah's accident, or Ray
> Mullen's arm, or even Marvin Candle's arm. What is the point of
> creating a coincidental fake story when Hurley is completely oblivious
> of the coincidence? I see no reason for Jack to ever mention the
> details of his ex-wife's accident to Hurley. And Hurley has never
> mentioned the Martha Toomey story details to Jack. People tend to not
> believe Hurley when he talks about the numbers and the lottery, so he's
> not eager to discuss it.
I think too much context has been dropped here. Sarah's accident
wasn't "created" at all. Ray Mullen's arm wasn't "created" either.
Marvin Candle's arm probably wasn't for Hurley. Let's not see a few
amputees and fall victim to the Aneristic Illusion.
> When Hurley went to Kalgoorlie to find Sam, he must have asked
> directions to the house, since it was in the middle of nowhere. Was
> the entire town in on the deception?
No more than the town any con artist lives in. They have no reason to
think anything untoward is going on.
Robert
Palpie
>
>Melroseman wrote:
>> 4+8+15+16+23+42=108 not likely as big as a pony.
>> 4*8*15*16*23*42=7,418,880 likely too much.
>> 4+8+15+16+23*42=1009 maybe.
>> 4*8*15*16*23+42=7745 likely.
>
>Supposedly, the guy had been running the challenge for 40 years, with
>no one coming close. Because of that, I'm more inclined to go for the
>7,418,880 out of these options. This is assuming that the story she
>told is true.
>
>I also don't think that the weighing options noted above would work to
>get an accurate count, since the beans would each have slightly
>different weights. Certainly if a person is expected to get the count
>right within ten, there had better be a way to prove the actual amount
>to that degree of precision.
Again you're over analysing this. It was a plot device to show that
Sam 'used' the numbers and was 'cursed' with bad luck for those around
him like Hurley. NOTHING MORE. It is not a sign of some conspiracy
set up 16 years ago to get Hurley to Craphole. Despite the claims of
the lost writing teams not everything is a clue and they do screw up.
>> "On the way home, a pickup truck blows a tire on the highway,
>> hits us head-on. Lost my leg that night."
>>
>> Didn't Ray Mullen have a pickup truck and a missing arm? hmm..
>> Isn't this accident similar to what happened between Shannon's father
>> and Sarah? double hmm...
>
>Similar right down to the blown tire. It seems that Dharma's good at
>blowing tires, detaching limbs, and making the numbers win contests,
>with protection for the winner and disaster for everyone close to him.
Except no one lost any limbs in the Ruthorford/Sarah accident and the
two incidents took place more than 10 years apart. There's no reason
to think there is any similarity beyond lazy writers.
Palpie
Yes according to rob EVERYONE on Earth except the non shill lostaways
in is on the scam.
Palpie
<dr.bi...@nospam.com> wrote:
>I agree that 5 million would be too many beans to count and carry and that
>a carnie(small hands, smell like cabbage) would never give 50 grand
>without verification. But the fact is that the woman only mentions the
>numbers by "name." Never by actually saying the numbers. So her numbers
>could not only be a shorter version of the numbers, they could be
>different numbers all together. Or as someone else said they could be the
>numbers added together and multiplied. Bottom line, this isn't a writers
>error this is simply a writers perogitive to leave out the details. If
>this is significant it will only be significant when the writer makes it
>so. Otherwise it's too unqualified to base any theories on.
Since Sam got the numbers from the same transmission that Leonard did
I don't see any reason to think he used a different set of numbers. As
to how he used them, it's irrelevant as there is no reason for it to
ever be brought up again. Though if enough people bitch about it
maybe we'll get another lame breaking of the forth wall and a
half-assed explanation.
Palpie
>thinbluemime wrote:
>
>> > 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>> NO
>
>> There is something wrong here
>
>> 1) An impossible bean count - 5 billion
>
>> 2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
>> never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
>> (has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
>
>People have pointed out that the dialog is vague enough that the
>reference to USING The Numbers doesn't have to result in that near 5
>billion fig.
For once you're right about something.
>> 3) This contest was fixed...either by Wally, Sam, Martha or someone else
>> 4) Hurley would not be on LOST if the above had not occured
>
>> Something isn't right here and may be core to the LOST secrets
>
>My sol'n is much simpler. Sam & Wally never existed, Martha & Lenny
>told phony stories, and the stories were all concocted specifically to
>GET Hurley "on Lost". The impossible bean count may or may not have
>been a clue to that, depending on one's interpret'n of using the
>numbers.
So was the lottery rigged or not? If it wasn't then it sure is a
lucky coincidence that the numbers Hurley got from Leonard won the
lottery. And if it was you're back to this conspiracy being awfully
ineffective for a group so fucking powerful. Additionally, even if
the lottery was rigged AND all the 'bad luck' was caused by Dharma
operatives, there is no way they could know Hurley would then seek out
the source of the numbers. What if instead he had committed suicide
like Sam did (cause despite you're delusions he did exist)? Or had
bought a ranch in the middle of Montana and become a hermit? If the
goal was to get Hurley to Craphole I'd expect more direct influence.
>But I think we have other clues adequate to lead to my solution. If
>everything truly happens for a reason, as "Lost" says, then unless
>we're to take "reason" to mean "final cause" (teleologic), it must
>refer to "efficient cause" (mechanism). There are enough clues in
>general in & about "Lost" to say it's efficient cause, the working of a
>conspiracy.
Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that. And
Locke's a raving lunatic, well maybe not raving, not all the time
anyway.
>If the Martha-Lenny story were true, then the lottery would've had to
>be rigged so that someone who knew Lenny would play the lottery and win
>it. Leaving aside the rigging of the lottery, how would they have
>known that someone who knew Lenny would pick The Numbers THAT TIME?
>Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
>them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
First, if Martha and Leonard are LYING then the fucking lottery had to
be rigged you moron. Hurley GOT THE NUMEBRS FROM LEONARD. If Leonard
is in on this massive scam he must have been in the hospital to give
the numbers to Hurley so Hurley'd play the lottery with them (and I'd
love to hear you explain how the fuck this conspiracy could have known
Hurley'd do that but not be able to control events on Craphole
better).
Second, as to rigging the lottery. If this conspiracy is as all
powerful as you make them out to be then it would be cake. They have
some one monitor all lottery tickets for the numbers and if they are
played they activate what ever system they have to make sure the
numbers come up.
Ohhh AND AS WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU ABOUT 20 TIMES WHEN Everybody Hate
Hurley AIRED HE ONLY PLAYED THE FUCKING NUMBERS THAT ONE TIME.
>It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
>AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
>whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
>set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
>research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
>to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
>reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
>been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
>and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
No it isn't that simple. Hurley doesn't tell anyone about where he
got the numbers. He certainly isn't going to tell the whole world he
got his winning lottery numbers wheile he was in the nut house.
Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
nut, to tell exactly the story they want. How do they know he won't
tell the story then tell Hurley to ask the Dharma people if he got it
right. No way a conspiracy as detail orientated as the one you want
to believe in would allow ther plan to hinge on a mad man playing a
role.
Palpie
No it isn't you idiot. All they have to do is monitor with Hurley's
activities (so they know if he played the lottery) or monitor the
lottery tickets purchased and only trigger the rigged drawing when the
numbers have been played. For a conspiracy that can make an airliner
disappear (you did finally give up on your idiotic 'flight 815 landed
at LAX' bullshit right?), rigging a lottery would be a piece of pie.
Palpie
wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 00:45:12 -0500, thinbluemime <thinbl...@tbm.com>
>wrote:
>
>> 4,815,162,342 or rounded off to 5 billion
>
>NO
>
>There is something wrong here
>
>1) An impossible bean count - 5 billion
>2) Even if Sam guessed the right figure, the "Wally" would
> never give away 50 grand on a figure that could NOT be verified
> (has no one here every been to a carnival? scam city!)
>3) This contest was fixed...either by Wally, Sam, Martha or someone else
>4) Hurley would not be on LOST if the above had not occured
>
>Something isn't right here and may be core to the LOST secrets
No, it was a plot device to give Hurley both someone who thought as he
did ('these durn numbers are cursed') and have someone point out that
there's no curse just life.
Ted
angel wrote:
snip
> even bigger question. Who counted all those beans to know it was
> nearly 5 billion ?
Every person in the word counts one of them? That would have been the
worldwide population, what? 15 or 16 years ago?
rob...@bestweb.net
> >When Hurley went to Kalgoorlie to find Sam, he must have asked
> >directions to the house, since it was in the middle of nowhere. Was
> >the entire town in on the deception?
> Yes according to rob EVERYONE on Earth except the non shill lostaways
> in is on the scam.
It's so much simpler. In "Masks of the Illuminati", a similar scam was
pulled that involved establishing someone's residence. The townspeople
don't have to know anything.
rob...@bestweb.net
> So was the lottery rigged or not?
Not.
> If it wasn't then it sure is a
> lucky coincidence that the numbers Hurley got from Leonard won the
> lottery.
No, you're falling victim to the Aneristic Illusion.
Somebody's winning big lottery pots all the time. (And that somebody
should stop playing and give someone else a chance for a change. And
someone is raped every 3 minutes....) And people who play lotteries
usually do pick their numbers from hunches. So if it hadn't been
Hurley, it'd've been someone else who won the lottery, and then
there'd've been some other story regarding the numbers.
> Additionally, even if the lottery was rigged
or if it wasn't, as I think it wasn't
> AND all the 'bad luck' was caused by Dharma
> I doubt Dharma, if it even exists in their world, has anything to do with the events portrayed.
> operatives, there is no way they could know Hurley would then seek out
> the source of the numbers.
So if Hurley doesn't, then some OTHER "cursed lottery winner" they're
trying to set up does.
> If the
> goal was to get Hurley to Craphole I'd expect more direct influence.
The goal was not to get specifically Hurley to Craphole. The goal was
to get someone who believes in curses and is extremely rich to
Craphole. They were probably working on several marks at the same
time. That probably goes for most of the Losties.
> Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that.
"Lost" said so in the promos.
> >If the Martha-Lenny story were true, then the lottery would've had to
> >be rigged so that someone who knew Lenny would play the lottery and win
> >it. Leaving aside the rigging of the lottery, how would they have
> >known that someone who knew Lenny would pick The Numbers THAT TIME?
> >Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
> >them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
> First, if Martha and Leonard are LYING then the fucking lottery had to
> be rigged you moron. Hurley GOT THE NUMEBRS FROM LEONARD. If Leonard
> is in on this massive scam he must have been in the hospital to give
> the numbers to Hurley so Hurley'd play the lottery with them (and I'd
> love to hear you explain how the fuck this conspiracy could have known
> Hurley'd do that but not be able to control events on Craphole
> better).
So if a mentalist on TV has you, in the TV audience, pick a number from
1 to 100 and you pick 47 and the magician says "47", do you think the
magician made you pick 47?
> Second, as to rigging the lottery. If this conspiracy is as all
> powerful as you make them out to be then it would be cake. They have
> some one monitor all lottery tickets for the numbers and if they are
> played they activate what ever system they have to make sure the
> numbers come up.
> Ohhh AND AS WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU ABOUT 20 TIMES WHEN Everybody Hate
> Hurley AIRED HE ONLY PLAYED THE FUCKING NUMBERS THAT ONE TIME.
Which is why the lottery couldn't've been fixed.
> >It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
> >AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
> >whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
> >set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
> >research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
> >to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
> >reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
> >been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
> >and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
> No it isn't that simple. Hurley doesn't tell anyone about where he
> got the numbers.
How do you know that?
> He certainly isn't going to tell the whole world he
> got his winning lottery numbers wheile he was in the nut house.
True. But a detective working for the scammers found out he'd been in
the nut house.
> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
story. Maybe they just offer him a lollipop. Or maybe they employ
some more powerful psychologic or even surgical technique.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> >Did you think that contreadicted what I wrote? That's exactly what I
> >meant: that Hurley didn't play The Numbers immediately after hearing
> >them, but only a considerable time later, in which interim many
> >drawings would've taken place. How could anyone have known WHICH
> >drawing Hurley would've entered after getting out of the psych ward?
> >That's why it's too hard to rig the drawing -- which is why the rigging
> >must've taken place AFTER Hurley won.
> No it isn't you idiot. All they have to do is monitor with Hurley's
> activities (so they know if he played the lottery)
How do they know he's going to play the lottery at all? According to
his story as told to Jack, he wasn't a regular lottery player.
And how do they know there aren't going to be a lot of people who pick
those numbers in that drawing, resulting in the share of prize to a
single individual not being so remarkable?
> or monitor the
> lottery tickets purchased and only trigger the rigged drawing when the
> numbers have been played. For a conspiracy that can make an airliner
> disappear (you did finally give up on your idiotic 'flight 815 landed
> at LAX' bullshit right?), rigging a lottery would be a piece of pie.
Only if you think these lotteries work that way. There is no central
registry monitoring which lottery numbers have been sold. That's
determined centrally only after the drawing.
Your way of trying to rig things is much harder than mine. They have
to follow a bunch of people who've had contact with Lenny, then one of
those people has to play those numbers in the lottery, they have to
know which drawing that person played those numbers in, and they have
to make sure nobody else plays those numbers. Waiting until after
people win big prizes and THEN researching them is much easier.
Robert
tdciago
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> Only if you think these lotteries work that way. There is no central
> registry monitoring which lottery numbers have been sold. That's
> determined centrally only after the drawing.
I'm just curious. In terms of the show's plot, why do you think Sawyer
(a con man) was involved with the lottery girl?
rob...@bestweb.net
> I'm just curious. In terms of the show's plot, why do you think Sawyer
> (a con man) was involved with the lottery girl?
Well, if "everything happens for a reason", then I'd have to believe
Sawyer was involved BECAUSE she was the lottery girl. That is, if
someone else had been drawing the lottery balls, then they'd've gotten
someone other than Sawyer onto Craphole. They're hoping Sawyer & Hugo
get talking, and that it comes out in the conversation that Sawyer had
dated the person who drew his numbers -- just to freak out Hugo &
Sawyer even more.
(That's why I think they got Shannon & Boone. They had the "lucky
couple" -- Jack & Sarah -- marked, then got people connected to them.)
Or the lottery girl might've been mere coincidence.
Robert
Palpie
>Palpie wrote:
>
>> So was the lottery rigged or not?
>
>Not.
>
>> If it wasn't then it sure is a
>> lucky coincidence that the numbers Hurley got from Leonard won the
>> lottery.
>
>No, you're falling victim to the Aneristic Illusion.
>
>Somebody's winning big lottery pots all the time. (And that somebody
>should stop playing and give someone else a chance for a change. And
>someone is raped every 3 minutes....) And people who play lotteries
>usually do pick their numbers from hunches. So if it hadn't been
>Hurley, it'd've been someone else who won the lottery, and then
>there'd've been some other story regarding the numbers.
Except we see these specific numbers showing up in flashbacks that
occurred BEFORE Hurley played the lottery. So the 'power' of the
numbers existed before Hurley played the lottery.
>> Additionally, even if the lottery was rigged
>
>or if it wasn't, as I think it wasn't
Then Leonard and Martha's story is true because there's no way this
super powerful conspiracy of yours would 1) be able to predict that
Hurley would hunt down the source of the numbers rather than commit
suicide or become a hermit and 2) allow the plan to rest on the
unstable shoulders of a madman.
>> AND all the 'bad luck' was caused by Dharma
>
>> I doubt Dharma, if it even exists in their world, has anything to do with the events portrayed.
>
>> operatives, there is no way they could know Hurley would then seek out
>> the source of the numbers.
>
>So if Hurley doesn't, then some OTHER "cursed lottery winner" they're
>trying to set up does.
So what they're going around fucking with the lives of everyone who
wins the lottery until one of them does what they want? And what if
one of these millionaires starts to investigate his 'bad luck' and
discovers it's all man made?
>> If the
>> goal was to get Hurley to Craphole I'd expect more direct influence.
>
>The goal was not to get specifically Hurley to Craphole. The goal was
>to get someone who believes in curses and is extremely rich to
>Craphole. They were probably working on several marks at the same
>time. That probably goes for most of the Losties.
>
>> Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that.
>
>"Lost" said so in the promos.
No Locke said so in the show and the marketers at ABC used his quote
in ads. Lost can't say anything, it's a tv show.
>> >If the Martha-Lenny story were true, then the lottery would've had to
>> >be rigged so that someone who knew Lenny would play the lottery and win
>> >it. Leaving aside the rigging of the lottery, how would they have
>> >known that someone who knew Lenny would pick The Numbers THAT TIME?
>> >Hurley played those numbers a considerable time after having heard
>> >them; many drawings would've taken place in the interim.
>
>> First, if Martha and Leonard are LYING then the fucking lottery had to
>> be rigged you moron. Hurley GOT THE NUMEBRS FROM LEONARD. If Leonard
>> is in on this massive scam he must have been in the hospital to give
>> the numbers to Hurley so Hurley'd play the lottery with them (and I'd
>> love to hear you explain how the fuck this conspiracy could have known
>> Hurley'd do that but not be able to control events on Craphole
>> better).
>
>So if a mentalist on TV has you, in the TV audience, pick a number from
>1 to 100 and you pick 47 and the magician says "47", do you think the
>magician made you pick 47?
No because I know the odds are he'll pick the same number as some
people. But the two situations aren't remotely similar. In your lame
simplistic example there is a huge group with very limited options.
There is a high probability of a hit. In your Lost scenario, there is
a very limited group (rich guys who believe in curses) with a huge
number of options (virtually infinite, given free will). The
likelyhood of a hit in that case is nearly zero. Then there's the
additional man power that would need to be expended for each rich guy
they are targeting.
>> Second, as to rigging the lottery. If this conspiracy is as all
>> powerful as you make them out to be then it would be cake. They have
>> some one monitor all lottery tickets for the numbers and if they are
>> played they activate what ever system they have to make sure the
>> numbers come up.
>
>> Ohhh AND AS WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU ABOUT 20 TIMES WHEN Everybody Hate
>> Hurley AIRED HE ONLY PLAYED THE FUCKING NUMBERS THAT ONE TIME.
>
>Which is why the lottery couldn't've been fixed.
No it isn't. In fact it might be a sign that it was fixed. Because
it's awful convient that the one time the numbers were played they
won.
>> >It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
>> >AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
>> >whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
>> >set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
>> >research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
>> >to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
>> >reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
>> >been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
>> >and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
>
>> No it isn't that simple. Hurley doesn't tell anyone about where he
>> got the numbers.
>
>How do you know that?
Because I watch the show. Anytime someone asked him about the numbers
he dodged the question. He knows people will think he's crazy if he
tells them he thinks the winning lottery numbers he got from a nutcase
have cursed him.
>> He certainly isn't going to tell the whole world he
>> got his winning lottery numbers wheile he was in the nut house.
>
>True. But a detective working for the scammers found out he'd been in
>the nut house.
Geee, the investgative reporter for the neightborhood paper (who's a
sophmore at the local high school, wears coke bottle glasses, has
asthma, and is still afraid of girls) could have learned that in about
10 minutes. It still doesn't mean they are able to connect him to
Leonard.
And while I'm thinking about it, exactly when did Dharma start
targeting Hurley, cause remember his curse struck first at the press
confrence to announce his winning.
>> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
>> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
>
>I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
>Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
>story.
And when he finishes telling the story to Hurley and asks "Am I better
now?" They're screwed. Remember LEONARD IS FUCKING NUTS. You can't
rely on him to do anything except recite those 6 numbers.
>Maybe they just offer him a lollipop.
Even worse, now he asks Hurley for the lollipop when he's done.
>Or maybe they employ
>some more powerful psychologic or even surgical technique.
Some magic technique that doesn't really exist?
Palpie
>tdciago wrote:
>
>> I'm just curious. In terms of the show's plot, why do you think Sawyer
>> (a con man) was involved with the lottery girl?
>
>Well, if "everything happens for a reason", then I'd have to believe
>Sawyer was involved BECAUSE she was the lottery girl. That is, if
>someone else had been drawing the lottery balls, then they'd've gotten
>someone other than Sawyer onto Craphole. They're hoping Sawyer & Hugo
>get talking, and that it comes out in the conversation that Sawyer had
>dated the person who drew his numbers -- just to freak out Hugo &
>Sawyer even more.
Yes I can just see how this conversation will go:
Sawyer: Hey Hurley, the Hobbit said you won the lottery, well guess
what, I used to bang this chick that did the whole drawing thing for a
lottery.
Hurley: Really? That so weird, I think it's a sign that we were all
brought here by a gigantic global conspiracy to get us to do some
obscure thing.
Sawyer: Huh? I thought we were here to resolve all our issues that
made us miserable bastards out in the real world.
Jack: No you're both wrong, we just landed here by chance, there's no
such thing as fate.
Locke: Do you really believe that Jack?
Desmond: Yeah Jack, remember me?
Sarah: Or how you fixed me, and now Locke got healed too.
Jack: How was Locke healed?
.
.
.
Jack: And what are you doing here?
Sarah: Oops I think I messed up my part I wasn't supposed to be here
till Locke told everyone about his 'miracle'
Kate: Well damn now the whole plan is ruined, good job Sarah. We'll
just have to eliminate this whole group and recruit a new one.
.
.
.
Locke: Are you sure you want to do that Kate?
Smoke Monster: ROAR, CLANK, BZZZZZZZZT.
.
.
.
Arzt: None of this would have happened if you had listened to me about
the winds and dynamite.
Everyone: SHUT UP ARZT!!!!!
Or maybe there's no reason for Sawyer or Hurley to ever talk about the
lottery chick. Hell I doubt Hurley would even recognize her, nor
would he and Sawyer be able to confirm it was the same person. It was
probably just a wink to the audience.
>(That's why I think they got Shannon & Boone. They had the "lucky
>couple" -- Jack & Sarah -- marked, then got people connected to them.)
So how exactly did they arrange for Shannon to be in Australia at the
right time AND for her and Boone to both be on the exact same flight
as Jack. Remember no one made the arrangements for Boone and Shannon.
Palpie
I think they'd know if Sam was real since that's where he and Martha
lived whe the whole numbers situation started. So either there WAS a
Sam and he did win some cash in a guessing game, etc. . . or else the
whole town would have to be in on the scam. Remember it wasn't Martha
that Hurley tracked down it was Sam.
rob...@bestweb.net
> Except we see these specific numbers showing up in flashbacks that
> occurred BEFORE Hurley played the lottery.
Not the whole sequence. Only 8 &15, and possibly other combinations of
two of them, which I'm sure you could see in your own life too.
> Then Leonard and Martha's story is true because there's no way this
> super powerful conspiracy of yours would 1) be able to predict that
> Hurley would hunt down the source of the numbers rather than commit
> suicide or become a hermit and 2) allow the plan to rest on the
> unstable shoulders of a madman.
But remember, Hurley is just one of MANY marks, most of whom we never
saw, being set up. For everyone on Craphole there are probably several
who didn't make it.
So what if Claire doesn't believe the psychic? There are more fish in
the sea. There are probably other Lockes too, and they either went mad
or decided to ignore the voices. Ditto super-surgeons.
> >So if Hurley doesn't, then some OTHER "cursed lottery winner" they're
> >trying to set up does.
> So what they're going around fucking with the lives of everyone who
> wins the lottery until one of them does what they want? And what if
> one of these millionaires starts to investigate his 'bad luck' and
> discovers it's all man made?
Then the hired guns are left twisting slowly in the wind. They don't
know enough to implicate the highers-up.
> >> Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that.
> >"Lost" said so in the promos.
> No Locke said so in the show and the marketers at ABC used his quote
> in ads. Lost can't say anything, it's a tv show.
"Lost" has a voice -- the narrator of the promos. That's the TV show's
own persona, the one witnessing all & telling us. And serving up those
commercials.
So maybe they know human nature better than you. For example, someone
who plays lotteries in the first place is likelier to believe in luck
than someone who doesn't.
> >> Second, as to rigging the lottery. If this conspiracy is as all
> >> powerful as you make them out to be then it would be cake. They have
> >> some one monitor all lottery tickets for the numbers and if they are
> >> played they activate what ever system they have to make sure the
> >> numbers come up.
> >> Ohhh AND AS WAS POINTED OUT TO YOU ABOUT 20 TIMES WHEN Everybody Hate
> >> Hurley AIRED HE ONLY PLAYED THE FUCKING NUMBERS THAT ONE TIME.
> >Which is why the lottery couldn't've been fixed.
> No it isn't. In fact it might be a sign that it was fixed. Because
> it's awful convient that the one time the numbers were played they
> won.
That's true only if Hurley were your only possible target. What if
someone else had won that pot using different numbers? Then that
person would've been targeted.
> >> >It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
> >> >AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
> >> >whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
> >> >set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
> >> >research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
> >> >to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
> >> >reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
> >> >been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
> >> >and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
> >> No it isn't that simple. Hurley doesn't tell anyone about where he
> >> got the numbers.
> >How do you know that?
> Because I watch the show. Anytime someone asked him about the numbers
> he dodged the question.
Sure, after he learns that he's cursed. Maybe shortly after he won the
lottery, he told lots of people. He may even have blabbed it on that
TV news we saw him on. There was time before the curse kicked in,
because of course it took time to set him up.
> >> He certainly isn't going to tell the whole world he
> >> got his winning lottery numbers wheile he was in the nut house.
> >True. But a detective working for the scammers found out he'd been in
> >the nut house.
> Geee, the investgative reporter for the neightborhood paper (who's a
> sophmore at the local high school, wears coke bottle glasses, has
> asthma, and is still afraid of girls) could have learned that in about
> 10 minutes. It still doesn't mean they are able to connect him to
> Leonard.
Anybody who hangs around there would've heard Lenny muttering the nos.
> And while I'm thinking about it, exactly when did Dharma start
Dharma's not real, or at least not involved.
> targeting Hurley, cause remember his curse struck first at the press
> confrence to announce his winning.
No, I don't remember. What happened?
> >> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
> >> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
> >I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
> >Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
> >story.
> And when he finishes telling the story to Hurley and asks "Am I better
> now?" They're screwed.
Whaddaya mean, screwed? They say, "You sure are, Lenny!" Or they say,
"Nope, too bad, the `medicine' didn't work." What does anybody care
after he's finished telling the story?
> Remember LEONARD IS FUCKING NUTS. You can't
> rely on him to do anything except recite those 6 numbers.
> >Maybe they just offer him a lollipop.
> Even worse, now he asks Hurley for the lollipop when he's done.
And Hurley gives him one. Whoopee. If you remember, they dragged
Lenny away immediately after he told the story.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> So how exactly did they arrange for Shannon to be in Australia at the
> right time AND for her and Boone to both be on the exact same flight
> as Jack. Remember no one made the arrangements for Boone and Shannon.
Obviously we need more clues.
rob...@bestweb.net
> I think they'd know if Sam was real since that's where he and Martha
> lived whe the whole numbers situation started. So either there WAS a
> Sam and he did win some cash in a guessing game, etc. . . or else the
> whole town would have to be in on the scam. Remember it wasn't Martha
> that Hurley tracked down it was Sam.
So there could've been someone named Sam there, but none of the other
significa are true.
Angela St.Aubin
<rob...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:1139351259....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Palpie wrote:
> > >> Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that.
>
> > >"Lost" said so in the promos.
>
> > No Locke said so in the show and the marketers at ABC used his quote
> > in ads. Lost can't say anything, it's a tv show.
>
> "Lost" has a voice -- the narrator of the promos. That's the TV show's
> own persona, the one witnessing all & telling us. And serving up those
> commercials.
Those voice over aren't universal to the show, only to the American
channels. I see the show both on a US station, and then later, on a Canadian
station, and the Canadian one never uses any sort of narration.
Asterbark
> "Lost" has a voice -- the narrator of the promos. That's the TV show's
> own persona, the one witnessing all & telling us. And serving up those
> commercials.
Every show has an announcer for the promos, stupid.
Bob Geary
Which would mean, I guess, that the announcers for *other* shows are
also the voice of Lost. When Kiefer Sutherland says, "Previously, on
24...", he's signalling the alert viewer that there's clues about Lost
coming up ("24" being, of course, "42" backwards).
Asterbark
Maybe a machine counted them. Let's just say 2 and a half olympic sized
swimming pools (unless I read something and understood it very wrong) full
of beans may have been counted, but by a machine very speedy and needing no
rest, within the relatively young life of a carnie who lugged all those
beans to fair after fair after fair over many years, with no close
guessers, AND NEVER LOST ONE SINGLE BEAN in the process.
Lol.
Steven L.
You know, you have to envy "robgood." His reality is so much more vivid
and exciting than ours. His reality is practically psychedelic.
--
Steven D. Litvintchouk
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
tdciago
Steven L. wrote:
> You know, you have to envy "robgood." His reality is so much more vivid
> and exciting than ours. His reality is practically psychedelic.
Well, I'll say this for robgood: He's calm and polite in his replies,
in the face of hostility, F bombs, and suggestions that he's nuts. I
give him credit for that, and for having the guts to stick his neck out
in stating his theories, and for having the imagination to come up with
those theories.
I think the tone of the responses he gets makes other people reluctant
to post their theories, which is a shame. I'd like to hear more of
them. We seem to place a lot of importance in being "right," and I
think that stifles creative discussion. The show is rich in imagery,
and it's amazing how individual events can be interpreted so
differently by different people. Instead of embracing that diversity,
we're crushing it.
Palpie
>Palpie wrote:
>
>> Then Leonard and Martha's story is true because there's no way this
>> super powerful conspiracy of yours would 1) be able to predict that
>> Hurley would hunt down the source of the numbers rather than commit
>> suicide or become a hermit and 2) allow the plan to rest on the
>> unstable shoulders of a madman.
>
>But remember, Hurley is just one of MANY marks, most of whom we never
>saw, being set up. For everyone on Craphole there are probably several
>who didn't make it.
And for every additional mark you have X more operatives that need to
be in on the scam.
>So what if Claire doesn't believe the psychic? There are more fish in
>the sea. There are probably other Lockes too, and they either went mad
>or decided to ignore the voices. Ditto super-surgeons.
Ahhhh but they need one group that are all connected to each other
too. So if Hurley goes that means they have to have Locke, Jack, et
al.
>> >> Lost doesn't say everything happens for a reason, Locke says that.
>
>> >"Lost" said so in the promos.
>
>> No Locke said so in the show and the marketers at ABC used his quote
>> in ads. Lost can't say anything, it's a tv show.
>
>"Lost" has a voice -- the narrator of the promos. That's the TV show's
>own persona, the one witnessing all & telling us. And serving up those
>commercials.
No, the voice in the promos is saying whatever the suits in ABC
marketing think will get people to watch. The promos have nothing to
do with what actually goes on in the show.
But that still leaves him will millions of options and the Dharma
people need him to pick one exact path. It just isn't predictable.
>> >> >It's much simpler to suppose Hurley's presence "on Lost" was rigged
>> >> >AFTER he won the lottery, which means The Numbers would've been
>> >> >whatever numbers won the lottery for whichever "mark" they successfully
>> >> >set up, playing whatever hunch s/he'd used. It was possible to
>> >> >research Hurley's past to figure out his hunch. For all we know (maybe
>> >> >to be disclosed in a future installment of "Lost"), he might've told
>> >> >reporters that he got his numbers from somebody in the nut house who'd
>> >> >been muttering them. From there it's easy enough to arrange a "curse"
>> >> >and to induce Lenny to tell a story.
>
>> >> No it isn't that simple. Hurley doesn't tell anyone about where he
>> >> got the numbers.
>
>> >How do you know that?
>
>> Because I watch the show. Anytime someone asked him about the numbers
>> he dodged the question.
>
>Sure, after he learns that he's cursed. Maybe shortly after he won the
>lottery, he told lots of people. He may even have blabbed it on that
>TV news we saw him on. There was time before the curse kicked in,
>because of course it took time to set him up.
The 'curse' 'started' at the press conference announcing him as the
winner. His grandfather died. There was no lag time between Hurley
winning and the curse starting.
>> >> He certainly isn't going to tell the whole world he
>> >> got his winning lottery numbers wheile he was in the nut house.
>
>> >True. But a detective working for the scammers found out he'd been in
>> >the nut house.
>
>> Geee, the investgative reporter for the neightborhood paper (who's a
>> sophmore at the local high school, wears coke bottle glasses, has
>> asthma, and is still afraid of girls) could have learned that in about
>> 10 minutes. It still doesn't mean they are able to connect him to
>> Leonard.
>
>Anybody who hangs around there would've heard Lenny muttering the nos.
You can't just hang around a mental hospital.
>> And while I'm thinking about it, exactly when did Dharma start
>
>Dharma's not real, or at least not involved.
Dharma or whatever you want to call this giant conspiracy of yours
then.
>> targeting Hurley, cause remember his curse struck first at the press
>> confrence to announce his winning.
>
>No, I don't remember. What happened?
His grandfather died.
>> >> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
>> >> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
>
>> >I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
>> >Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
>> >story.
>
>> And when he finishes telling the story to Hurley and asks "Am I better
>> now?" They're screwed.
>
>Whaddaya mean, screwed? They say, "You sure are, Lenny!" Or they say,
>"Nope, too bad, the `medicine' didn't work." What does anybody care
>after he's finished telling the story?
He asked Hurley that not the Dharma people. Because Leonard is a
fucking nut. He can't be relied on to follow a script or keep a
secret.
>> Remember LEONARD IS FUCKING NUTS. You can't
>> rely on him to do anything except recite those 6 numbers.
>
>> >Maybe they just offer him a lollipop.
>
>> Even worse, now he asks Hurley for the lollipop when he's done.
>
>And Hurley gives him one. Whoopee. If you remember, they dragged
>Lenny away immediately after he told the story.
Ohhh so Leonard expecting a lollipop after his story wouldn't make
Hurley suspicious, but Kate not helping Locke get her tied up instead
of him would have made Locke suspicious?
Palpie
And if he had for some reason asked someone in town about Sam's
accident after visiting with Martha. Or if he had decided to track
down the carnie for some reason and started asking questions. That
would certainly have been inconvient for the conspiracy.
Melroseman
I'm all for wild theories, but sometimes Robbie extrapolates crazy ideas
out of nothing, with no basis at all. Like Smokey being, "Saran film
speckled with black and being manipulated by threads and fans."
It's ridiculous ideas like those that piss me off.
Rob wasn't always as nutty. He started off as an intelligent and
coherent contributor to this group. But somewhere along the line,
something happened, and he Lost his mind.
"Saran film" ??? That's nuts.
--
New to alt.tv.lost? Please read the FAQ before posting:
http://www.geocities.com/alt_tv_lost/
rob...@bestweb.net
Why is it stupid? Did you think I was claiming that ONLY "Lost" has
promos with voice over? The point is that that "perspective" is
objective. It's cheating if the promo says something that turns out to
be a lie, while it's not cheating if a character does -- or, as in the
case of "Lost", MANY characters do!
So if Locke says everything happens for a reason, that doesn't count
for as much as if the voice overs (or titles) say so.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> I think the tone of the responses he gets makes other people reluctant
> to post their theories, which is a shame. I'd like to hear more of
> them. We seem to place a lot of importance in being "right," and I
> think that stifles creative discussion.
OTOH, The Fuselage disallows flaming, but they also disallow so much
else that it gets uncomfortable for the opposite reason.
Here they flame, but never want to put money on it. I'm playing this
as a game -- be the first to figure things out, without taking SO many
guesses that you hit it by chance. I wouldn't mind playing for some
money, just to make it a little more interesting. I'd most like to see
some parimutuel pools, so we could see the odds shift as info comes in.
If you know of a "Lost" discussion forum with gambling, I'm there!
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> And for every additional mark you have X more operatives that need to
> be in on the scam.
But it's not exactly a full time job. Locke's "father", that took a
lot of hours, sure. Claire's fortune teller, not so much.
> >So what if Claire doesn't believe the psychic? There are more fish in
> >the sea. There are probably other Lockes too, and they either went mad
> >or decided to ignore the voices. Ditto super-surgeons.
> Ahhhh but they need one group that are all connected to each other
> too. So if Hurley goes that means they have to have Locke, Jack, et
> al.
Please explain that last bit.
> No, the voice in the promos is saying whatever the suits in ABC
> marketing think will get people to watch. The promos have nothing to
> do with what actually goes on in the show.
I'll ask Damon. I'm SURE at least a couple of the promos last summer
were written by the creative team, because of the clever allusions in
them.
The Channel 4 dance videos I think were done without input from the
creative team.
> >So maybe they know human nature better than you. For example, someone
> >who plays lotteries in the first place is likelier to believe in luck
> >than someone who doesn't.
> But that still leaves him will millions of options and the Dharma
It ain't Dharma! Would they use their real name on the instructional
film?
> people need him to pick one exact path. It just isn't predictable.
I think that's one of the points being made by "Lost" -- that human
behavior is predictable ENOUGH to make a plot like this work, given
enough attempts.
> The 'curse' 'started' at the press conference announcing him as the
> winner. His grandfather died. There was no lag time between Hurley
> winning and the curse starting.
Then maybe his grandfather's death was unconnected.
Was anybody from the lottery commission known to be present at the
press conference? If so, maybe the Island Powers had infiltrated that
commission and their infiltrator acted as an assassin.
> >Anybody who hangs around there would've heard Lenny muttering the nos.
> You can't just hang around a mental hospital.
You can if you have a reason for being there. Or APPEAR to have a good
enough reason. These people had to get someone in the morgue with
Christian's "dead body" to play along; you think getting someone into a
mental hospital's going to be harder?
> >Dharma's not real, or at least not involved.
> Dharma or whatever you want to call this giant conspiracy of yours
> then.
I'm using Allie's name, the Island Powers. But you can make up another
name. Whatever they are, they'd be idiots if they ACCURATELY
identified themselves as the Hanso Foundation, the Dharma Initiative,
whatever, by that film.
> >> >> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
> >> >> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
> >> >I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
> >> >Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
> >> >story.
> >> And when he finishes telling the story to Hurley and asks "Am I better
> >> now?" They're screwed.
> >Whaddaya mean, screwed? They say, "You sure are, Lenny!" Or they say,
> >"Nope, too bad, the `medicine' didn't work." What does anybody care
> >after he's finished telling the story?
> He asked Hurley that not the Dharma people. Because Leonard is a
> fucking nut. He can't be relied on to follow a script or keep a
> secret.
That's why they hustled him off the stage as soon as he said his lines
to Hurley.
> Ohhh so Leonard expecting a lollipop after his story wouldn't make
> Hurley suspicious,
Why would it? Hurley knows Lenny's nucking futs! But maybe, just
maybe not crazy enough that his story's entirely false; better check it
out, huh?
> but Kate not helping Locke get her tied up instead
> of him would have made Locke suspicious?
Sure, because Locke knows Kate doesn't fuck nuts.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
I'm not sure who the "carnie" would be in this case (Sam was supposed
to have blown his brains out), but sure, a LOT of "would be" things
would certainly have been inconvenient for the conspiracy. That's why
a lot of people are being shut up!
Things HAVE been going wrong. John & I both think now that Sun was
supposed to have been spared this "adventure", which is what those
people she was supposed to meet at the airport were about. In another
thread I explain how I think Kate had to hustle to make up for
something unexpected Locke said.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net
> I'm all for wild theories, but sometimes Robbie extrapolates crazy ideas
> out of nothing, with no basis at all. Like Smokey being, "Saran film
> speckled with black and being manipulated by threads and fans."
> It's ridiculous ideas like those that piss me off.
Why should it piss you off? I could understand their AMUSING you, but
if you're getting PISSED OFF by such things, you're WAY too intense!
"Lost" should be a fun addiction, not a burdensome one.
> Rob wasn't always as nutty. He started off as an intelligent and
> coherent contributor to this group. But somewhere along the line,
> something happened, and he Lost his mind.
> "Saran film" ??? That's nuts.
> --
But I wrote of that for only about 2 days or so after the episode
aired. I also considered mirrors, but I settled on magnetic
levitation.
The basic idea is that it'd be a simple technology, as the makers of
"Lost" promised.
Meanwhile NOBODY else here that I can recall hazarded any guess as to a
simple way to produce Smokey. Some people here & at The Fuselage had
been promoting since last season the ridiculously complicated
explanation of nanobots! THAT didn't piss you off, but speckled Saran
in an air stream or on threads DID?
I was also the only one to bother asking for ideas in
alt.magic.secrets. Why didn't anybody else here think of that?
Robert
Ryan Robbins
news:1139386176.8...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I'd most like to see
> some parimutuel pools, so we could see the odds shift as info comes in.
> If you know of a "Lost" discussion forum with gambling, I'm there!
Of course, you're close friends with Damon, so you'd be disqualified.
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> The basic idea is that it'd be a simple technology, as the makers of
> "Lost" promised.
What promise was that? I admit I haven't seen everything the creative
team behind Lost has said about what's going on, but the only statement
I recall that's similar to what you're saying is David Fury's statement
that everything is rooted in "real science or real pseudo-science".
Getting around the fact that "real pseudo-science" is a contradiction,
the only thing that seems to exclude is the supernatural.
> Meanwhile NOBODY else here that I can recall hazarded any guess as to a
> simple way to produce Smokey. Some people here & at The Fuselage had
> been promoting since last season the ridiculously complicated
> explanation of nanobots! THAT didn't piss you off, but speckled Saran
> in an air stream or on threads DID?
Speckeld Saran wrap would be so blatantly obvious to Eko and Charlie
that it would have deserved more comment than "I was not afraid of it".
> I was also the only one to bother asking for ideas in
> alt.magic.secrets. Why didn't anybody else here think of that?
Because most people here are more in the "scientific research gone
wrong" camp than in the "everything is meant to confuse the Losties"
camp.
Robert
Palpie wrote:
> Or maybe there's no reason for Sawyer or Hurley to ever talk about the
> lottery chick. Hell I doubt Hurley would even recognize her, nor
> would he and Sawyer be able to confirm it was the same person. It was
> probably just a wink to the audience.
Since both characters were played by Brittany Perrineau, Harold
Perrineau's wife, it was probably just taking advantage of the
opportunity to use an actress who was already in Hawaii and already
associated with the cast for a couple of bit parts. Given how little
screen time either character gets I doubt we were supposed to notice
they were being played by the same person.
After all, nobody asks what Sarek was doing on a Romulan warbird during
the first season of "Star Trek".
Robert
rob...@bestweb.net wrote:
> Sure, after he learns that he's cursed. Maybe shortly after he won the
> lottery, he told lots of people. He may even have blabbed it on that
> TV news we saw him on. There was time before the curse kicked in,
> because of course it took time to set him up.
No. Telling people where he got the numbers would have meant revealing
he spent time in a mental hospital. Hurley gets very defensive about
that, and he's certainly not going to announce it to the world.
I've noticed your theories are filled with "maybe's" and "could have"s.
> Dharma's not real, or at least not involved.
In one of the Lost Magazine issues one of the writers, I'm not sure who
but I think it was Javier, described in broad strokes what Dharma was
up to on the island. It's not conclusive but I think that particular
writer considers Dharma to be real.
> > targeting Hurley, cause remember his curse struck first at the press
> > confrence to announce his winning.
>
> No, I don't remember. What happened?
His grandfather died right in front of him, of an apparent heart
attack. In order for the curse to be manufactured by a conspiracy, the
conspiracy would have to murder a man in full view of the television
cameras and make it look natural. They'd also have to arrange for a
priest to get struck by lightning and for Hurley's mother to break her
ankle.
Robert
tdciago wrote:
> Well, I'll say this for robgood: He's calm and polite in his replies,
> in the face of hostility, F bombs, and suggestions that he's nuts. I
> give him credit for that, and for having the guts to stick his neck out
> in stating his theories, and for having the imagination to come up with
> those theories.
In my communication with robgood I try very hard to be civil and keep
it about his theories instead of about him. What makes it difficult is
I don't think he pays any significant attention to what people are
telling him. I've never seen him retract a theory due to evidence.
What he does is erect new and more elaborate theories to protect his
other theories. ("Drugs in the cockpit? Somebody must have found them
in the simulator and put them in the wreckage just in case Charlie goes
looking for them.") It's very difficult to have a rational discussion
with someone like that.
I also have the suspicion that he is putting everybody on (especially
with the theory that Ana-Lucia murdered her shooter before he was
arrested) and I don't like being manipulated.
Melroseman
> Melroseman wrote:
>
> > I'm all for wild theories, but sometimes Robbie extrapolates crazy ideas
> > out of nothing, with no basis at all. Like Smokey being, "Saran film
> > speckled with black and being manipulated by threads and fans."
>
> > It's ridiculous ideas like those that piss me off.
>
> Why should it piss you off? I could understand their AMUSING you, but
> if you're getting PISSED OFF by such things, you're WAY too intense!
> "Lost" should be a fun addiction, not a burdensome one.
It pisses me off in the same way when one is trying to have a coherent
conversation with someone who keeps dodging the question by answering
with another question.
> > "Saran film" ??? That's nuts.
> > --
> But I wrote of that for only about 2 days or so after the episode
> aired. I also considered mirrors, but I settled on magnetic
> levitation.
It concerns me when it took you 2 days to realize how ridiculous it is.
> The basic idea is that it'd be a simple technology, as the makers of
> "Lost" promised.
>
> Meanwhile NOBODY else here that I can recall hazarded any guess as to a
> simple way to produce Smokey. Some people here & at The Fuselage had
> been promoting since last season the ridiculously complicated
> explanation of nanobots! THAT didn't piss you off, but speckled Saran
> in an air stream or on threads DID?
I can believe that nanobots could potentially look like what we saw,
but there's no way in hell speckled Saran on threads is going to do
that!
Melroseman
Well said Robert. This is exactly my problem with Robgood.
Palpie
>Asterbark wrote:
>
>> > "Lost" has a voice -- the narrator of the promos. That's the TV show's
>> > own persona, the one witnessing all & telling us. And serving up those
>> > commercials.
>
>> Every show has an announcer for the promos, stupid.
>
>Why is it stupid? Did you think I was claiming that ONLY "Lost" has
>promos with voice over? The point is that that "perspective" is
>objective. It's cheating if the promo says something that turns out to
>be a lie, while it's not cheating if a character does -- or, as in the
>case of "Lost", MANY characters do!
No the voice over in the promos is saying whatever the marking suits
at ABC think will attract viewers. This may include quoting character
lines that were memorable or possibly important.
>So if Locke says everything happens for a reason, that doesn't count
>for as much as if the voice overs (or titles) say so.
Only what is said and done and shown in the show counts. Promos,
posters, web sites; they all are just marketing. How many times have
the promos been deliberately misleading leading to a week of inane
speculation that all turns out to be pointless when the actual episode
airs.
Palpie
>Palpie wrote:
>
>> And for every additional mark you have X more operatives that need to
>> be in on the scam.
>
>But it's not exactly a full time job. Locke's "father", that took a
>lot of hours, sure. Claire's fortune teller, not so much.
But you still need more people to monitor and set up these scams. And
the more people you have the greater the chance for exposure.
>> >So what if Claire doesn't believe the psychic? There are more fish in
>> >the sea. There are probably other Lockes too, and they either went mad
>> >or decided to ignore the voices. Ditto super-surgeons.
>
>> Ahhhh but they need one group that are all connected to each other
>> too. So if Hurley goes that means they have to have Locke, Jack, et
>> al.
>
>Please explain that last bit.
You claim they've set this group of people up to be on Craphole
together. But because this absurd plan requires these people's pasts
to be intertwined they need a specific group, they can't have Hurley
go but not Locke. If Jack goes, then according to you in another
post, that meant they had to get Shannon and Boone. This greatly
increases the difficulty of successfully getting all these people
together on Craphole.
>> No, the voice in the promos is saying whatever the suits in ABC
>> marketing think will get people to watch. The promos have nothing to
>> do with what actually goes on in the show.
>
>I'll ask Damon. I'm SURE at least a couple of the promos last summer
>were written by the creative team, because of the clever allusions in
>them.
Allusions only you see?
>The Channel 4 dance videos I think were done without input from the
>creative team.
>
>> >So maybe they know human nature better than you. For example, someone
>> >who plays lotteries in the first place is likelier to believe in luck
>> >than someone who doesn't.
>
>> But that still leaves him will millions of options and the Dharma
>
>It ain't Dharma! Would they use their real name on the instructional
>film?
Well what do you want to call this conspiracy? Dharma is as good a
name as any other.
>> people need him to pick one exact path. It just isn't predictable.
>
>I think that's one of the points being made by "Lost" -- that human
>behavior is predictable ENOUGH to make a plot like this work, given
>enough attempts.
But human behavior is not predictable to the degree required by your
plot.
>> The 'curse' 'started' at the press conference announcing him as the
>> winner. His grandfather died. There was no lag time between Hurley
>> winning and the curse starting.
>
>Then maybe his grandfather's death was unconnected.
Ohhh, just like the factory fire, the chicken place getting hit by a
meteor, and all his other 'bad luck' is completely unconnected to
anything.
>Was anybody from the lottery commission known to be present at the
>press conference? If so, maybe the Island Powers had infiltrated that
>commission and their infiltrator acted as an assassin.
So they just magically induced a heart attack in his grandfather? And
do they do this to every person who ever wins a lottery? Or only
certain winners are tested? Cause I think if everyone who ever won a
lottery had family members dropping dead and other stuff someone might
notice and look into it.
>> >Anybody who hangs around there would've heard Lenny muttering the nos.
>
>> You can't just hang around a mental hospital.
>
>You can if you have a reason for being there. Or APPEAR to have a good
>enough reason. These people had to get someone in the morgue with
>Christian's "dead body" to play along; you think getting someone into a
>mental hospital's going to be harder?
Well Jack's dad really is dead so I'm just going to ignore this.
>> >Dharma's not real, or at least not involved.
>
>> Dharma or whatever you want to call this giant conspiracy of yours
>> then.
>
>I'm using Allie's name, the Island Powers. But you can make up another
>name. Whatever they are, they'd be idiots if they ACCURATELY
>identified themselves as the Hanso Foundation, the Dharma Initiative,
>whatever, by that film.
It doesn't matter what they call themselves.
>> >> >> Further how exactly are they going to induce Leonard, who is a raving
>> >> >> nut, to tell exactly the story they want.
>
>> >> >I think we're going to get some clues to that, if we haven't already.
>> >> >Maybe they tell the raving nut that he'll get better if he tells that
>> >> >story.
>
>> >> And when he finishes telling the story to Hurley and asks "Am I better
>> >> now?" They're screwed.
>
>> >Whaddaya mean, screwed? They say, "You sure are, Lenny!" Or they say,
>> >"Nope, too bad, the `medicine' didn't work." What does anybody care
>> >after he's finished telling the story?
>
>> He asked Hurley that not the Dharma people. Because Leonard is a
>> fucking nut. He can't be relied on to follow a script or keep a
>> secret.
>
>That's why they hustled him off the stage as soon as he said his lines
>to Hurley.
Of course, because everyone on Earth is in on this.
>> Ohhh so Leonard expecting a lollipop after his story wouldn't make
>> Hurley suspicious,
>
>Why would it? Hurley knows Lenny's nucking futs! But maybe, just
>maybe not crazy enough that his story's entirely false; better check it
>out, huh?
Well yeah because Leonard's story happens to be what really happened.
>> but Kate not helping Locke get her tied up instead
>> of him would have made Locke suspicious?
>
>Sure, because Locke knows Kate doesn't fuck nuts.
So? That doesn't mean he would be suspicious if she didn't go along
with his plan. Just like I doubt any of the lostaways were surprised
that Kate followed Jack and co and screwed up there. That's what they
expect from her, she's a useless, nosy pain in the ass screw up.
Palpie
>Palpie wrote:
>
>> >> I think they'd know if Sam was real since that's where he and Martha
>> >> lived whe the whole numbers situation started. So either there WAS a
>> >> Sam and he did win some cash in a guessing game, etc. . . or else the
>> >> whole town would have to be in on the scam. Remember it wasn't Martha
>> >> that Hurley tracked down it was Sam.
>
>> >So there could've been someone named Sam there, but none of the other
>> >significa are true.
>
>> And if he had for some reason asked someone in town about Sam's
>> accident after visiting with Martha. Or if he had decided to track
>> down the carnie for some reason and started asking questions. That
>> would certainly have been inconvient for the conspiracy.
>
>I'm not sure who the "carnie" would be in this case (Sam was supposed
>to have blown his brains out), but sure, a LOT of "would be" things
>would certainly have been inconvenient for the conspiracy. That's why
>a lot of people are being shut up!
The carnie who ran the bean counting contest Sam won. What would have
prevented Hurley from deciding to ask around about him. And I don't
see anyone being shut up. Of course I actually watch Lost not
whatever alternate universe show you seem to get.
>Things HAVE been going wrong. John & I both think now that Sun was
>supposed to have been spared this "adventure", which is what those
>people she was supposed to meet at the airport were about. In another
>thread I explain how I think Kate had to hustle to make up for
>something unexpected Locke said.
So Sun goes and makes plans to leave Jin, but it's really someone
manipulating her to keep her off Craphole, while getting Jin there?
Then why when they put these people on Craphole didn't they just take
her out then? Remember you're claiming that the crash was staged on
the opposite side of the world so if Sun isn't supposed to be there
they could just take her out.
rob...@bestweb.net
> Only what is said and done and shown in the show counts. Promos,
> posters, web sites; they all are just marketing. How many times have
> the promos been deliberately misleading leading to a week of inane
> speculation that all turns out to be pointless when the actual episode
> airs.
They can mislead, sure, but not outright lie. It's more fun when
promos to shows are creatively misleading.
rob...@bestweb.net
> So Sun goes and makes plans to leave Jin, but it's really someone
> manipulating her to keep her off Craphole, while getting Jin there?
> Then why when they put these people on Craphole didn't they just take
> her out then? Remember you're claiming that the crash was staged on
> the opposite side of the world so if Sun isn't supposed to be there
> they could just take her out.
While keeping her alive? Even if Jin didn't go nuts failing to find
her body, he'd realize when he found her again (when they get back to
the Rest Of The World) that the crash had been fake. And even if he
didn't manage to find her again, SHE would know about the plot. If
they'd wanted her as a conspirator, she'd've been one already.
Either that or it was a test of loyalty (to her husband), and she
passed.
Robert
Asterbark
If I recall correctly, Sun was supposed to leave Jin at the airport and
the woman who helped her said Jin would stick around in Australia
attempting to solve the mystery of her whereabouts. When they gave up she
would be free to fly to America. So I guess it really was a test of her
loyalty, or how about there's nothing in the story to support that idea
you believed as soon as you invented it.
rob...@bestweb.net
> >> So Sun goes and makes plans to leave Jin, but it's really someone
> >> manipulating her to keep her off Craphole, while getting Jin there?
> >> Then why when they put these people on Craphole didn't they just take
> >> her out then? Remember you're claiming that the crash was staged on
> >> the opposite side of the world so if Sun isn't supposed to be there
> >> they could just take her out.
> > While keeping her alive? Even if Jin didn't go nuts failing to find
> > her body, he'd realize when he found her again (when they get back to
> > the Rest Of The World) that the crash had been fake. And even if he
> > didn't manage to find her again, SHE would know about the plot. If
> > they'd wanted her as a conspirator, she'd've been one already.
> > Either that or it was a test of loyalty (to her husband), and she
> > passed.
> If I recall correctly, Sun was supposed to leave Jin at the airport and
> the woman who helped her said Jin would stick around in Australia
> attempting to solve the mystery of her whereabouts.
But that probably wouldn't happen with Jin being monitored by the man
in the bathroom. So the conditions were there to separate them if Sun
didn't back out of her arrangement.
Asterbark
Again with the "probably." There will never be a time when we will find
out what would have happened if Sun did leave Jin and what those men
would do, literally force a worried husband onto a plane which will
"crash" and when he gets "rescued," he will be even more highly
suspicious of his "role" in this "scheme" you've concocted. There is a
time when we know Sun did get on the plane with Jin and we will never
address any silly things like "loyalty tests" and such. There is no way
on earth or in hell that they are going to address these minute little
reasons in the background you've made up why this would or wouldn't or
should or shouldn't have happened like it did. Your little
orchestrations of probablies and might bes to scheme all these people
into place is as if they are operated like remote control cars instead
of people. I know you don't know how people operate and you think it
would all be a lot better and easier to understand what's going on if
they were robotic, but that's not a fun story for us people on earth. It
sucks rocks, Rob.