<-watch end closely
more people should speak Latin.
Smack dab in the middle, on top of the world, is Leo, (Lio), the only star
constellation that contains the Son.
Is this a new twitter, since the release of the video with the Linder
If so, do you think he's referring to this:
"Why is there a drawing of the different possible systems of the
universe in the centre of the painting with the intriguing Latin
phrase 'ALY ET ALIA VIDENT' – 'Others see it yet otherwise'?"
Others as in...Others?
By the way, is it true that Jacob's dog painting, Dogen, and the DS
ring are in the youtube video? I might actually try to download this
Man, that thing looks addictive. You could spend hours going over all
of the details and speculating on them.
I did notice a statue of Ceres, the Roman version of Demeter. It
reminded me how I pegged Danielle as Demeter way back when. What I
didn't realize at the time was this:
Ceres, formally designated 1 Ceres, is the smallest identified dwarf
planet in the Solar System and the only one in the asteroid belt. It
was discovered on 1 January 1801, by Giuseppe Piazzi, and is named
after Ceres, the Roman goddess of growing plants, the harvest, and
With a diameter of about 950 km (590 miles), Ceres is by far the
largest and most massive body in the asteroid belt, and contains a
third (32%) of the belt's total mass...
Ceres was assigned a planetary symbol, and remained listed as a planet
in astronomy books and tables (along with 2 Pallas, 3 Juno and 4
Vesta) for about half a century until further asteroids were
However, as other objects were discovered in the area it was realised
that Ceres represented the first of a class of many similar bodies.
 Sir William Herschel coined in 1802 the term asteroid ("star-
like") for such bodies, writing "they resemble small stars so much as
hardly to be distinguished from them, even by very good telescopes".
As the first such body to be discovered, it was given the designation
1 Ceres under the modern system of asteroid numbering.
</End quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceres_(dwarf_planet) >
The reason I believe this is so significant is because we eventually
learned that Danielle's ship was named for an asteroid. The fact that
Danielle seems to represent a mythological figure for whom the first
asteroid was named has got to be significant.
>> more people should speak
> Is this a new twitter, since the release of the video with the Linder
Lindelof's twitter (Nov 13) and the newest POSTER release (Nov 12 or 13)
came out close to the same time. The newest poster clue video included the
URL to the poster release site. The same video also included several
frames that included the painting.
For claity, the POSTER is part of the ARG, the PAINTING is 'The Linder
Gallery Interior' painting. This link might help in clearing up some ARG
I haven't been following the ARG very closely since the Rapper, 88-keys,
clues, but I think the above dates are correct.
> If so, do you think he's referring to this:
> "Why is there a drawing of the different possible systems of the
> universe in the centre of the painting with the intriguing Latin
> phrase 'ALY ET ALIA VIDENT' – 'Others see it yet otherwise'?"
> Others as in...Others?
It is Latin and the translation varies, but it is a reference to the 3
maps that show the view of the world in relationship to the Sun. The
youtube video labeled "Michael John Gorman @ IGNITE Dublin", detailing the
painting in 5 minutes is on this web page
> By the way, is it true that Jacob's dog painting, Dogen, and the DS
> ring are in the youtube video? I might actually try to download this
The screen caps from the video are here:
> Man, that thing looks addictive. You could spend hours going over all
> of the details and speculating on them.
It's almost as much fun as Google Earth. The level of detail is amazing
when zoomed in really close.
Thank you! That's what I wanted to see. I don't want to get too
excited about these particular images unless we know for sure that
this was put together by someone from the show. If this is just some
fan video, I'll be disappointed. The fact that Dogen is there could
mean it's official, unless that's a shot of the actor from another
If this *is* from an official source...oh boy! I've speculated that
the DS ring could stand for "Dog Star," or that plus dexter /
sinister, meaning right / left. Look closely at that ring:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Driveshaftring.jpg . It's got
the 8-pointed star symbol on it underneath the initials. Then, to have
Jacob's dog and DOGEN show up seems incredible. I know there's a
perfectly reasonable source for that name (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%8Dgen
), but the resemblance to Dogon has me drooling like Pavlov's
dog. :) And now, as I was looking up that Wikipedia link, I see that
11064 Dogen is a main-belt asteroid! What the hell?
As for the ping pong ball, I think there's a reason they made it
Okay, at this point I'll be crushed if that video's not official.
Funny, as much as you have mentioned the eight point star, I never saw it
before on Charlie's ring until you pointed it out.
(My days of staring at goats and oddly shaped fingers, is in the past, LOL)
I think the clue video is official source material generated by the Lost
PTB. The video was captured by a fan hand held cam at the SPiN NY club.
The Dogan (Dogen) info was leaked earlier and the vid screen caps just
And isn't it interesting that SUN finds it.
I have a feeling this part of the painting is exactly what we're
supposed to be considering, and it's why the painting shows up in the
See #65 at http://www.mysteriousmasterpiece.com/
The drawing shows three versions of the cosmic system:
1) Ptolemaic (geocentric)
2) Copernican (heliocentric)
3) Tychonic (a combination of the two)
Now think about the Latin quote: "Others see it yet otherwise."
Yet otherwise. What if the Others see the Leader not as Sol (or
Earth), but as Nemesis? And what if Nemesis is Sirius? Plutarch
referred to Sirius as "the Leader," and the Akkadians used the name
Kasista (meaning Leader and Prince). In Chaldea (today's Iraq) it was
called the Dog Star That Leads.
To me, "yet otherwise" indicates that there are still more
possibilities besides the three systems shown. The dog painting and
the wall painting of Isis both suggest that Jacob is connected to
Sirius. And the Others were taking orders from the unseen Jacob for
The Season 6 poster asks the question: Who is the leader?
I'm beginning to see a convergence... If I were an Other, and decided the
iland was the center and not the Sun, I would hang another's brother's son
from a tall oak tree. I would remove Locke from the potential leadership
role by murdering him. But everything that rises must converge, so when
Locke is risen, what will the Others do? There are at least 3 options
1) Attempt to murder him again (not a good choice)
2) Ignore him (hard to do)
3) Follow him
Didn't Ben confirm he was a Pisces? With Ben deciding he would follow
Locke after his Alex revelation, would that make Ben a fisher of men
follower? Ben makes a move from pharisee to pisces.
Whew!, I need a brain break...time for a strawberry and a fishbiscuit :)
They had him say that for a reason, even though we know he was born in
December and is *not* a Pisces.
Lively discussion over at DarkUFO
I think I found another interpretation of the cosmos that qualifies as
"otherwise," and it suits the "Lost" universe perfectly:
"The Holy Science is a book written by Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri in
In the introduction, Sri Yukteswar writes:
The purpose of this book is to show as clearly as possible that there
is an essential unity in all religions; that there is no difference in
the truths inculcated by the various faiths; that there is but one
method by which the world, both external and internal, has evolved;
and that there is but one Goal admitted by all scriptures....
...His theory is based on the idea that the sun 'takes some star for
its dual and revolves round it in about 24,000 years of our earth – a
celestial phenomenon which causes the backward movement of the
equinoctial points around the zodiac.' The common explanation for this
celestial phenomenon is precession, the ‘wobbling’ rotating movement
of the earth axis...
He further states that:
The sun also has another motion by which it revolves round a grand
center called Bishnunavi which is the seat of the creative power
Brahma, the universal magnetism. Brahma regulates Dharma the mental
virtues of the internal world. When the sun in its revolution round
its dual comes to the place nearest to this grand center the seat of
Brahma (an event which takes place when the autumnal equinox comes to
the first point of Aries) Dharma the mental virtue becomes so much
developed that man can easily comprehend all, even the mysteries of
The title _The Holy Science_ brings together science and faith.
Bishnunavi is Vishnu's navel. Brahma is depicted sitting on a lotus
that grows out of this navel. Recall that the Season 1 soundtrack
included a piece called "Navel Gazing," from a scene in which Sawyer
says to Kate, "You some sort of no fun, navel-gazing, mopey type?"
I've interpreted the orange motif in that season to mean that the
island is the navel of the universe, the axis mundi, the cosmic tree,
Brahma is referred to here as the "universal magnetism." This fits
perfectly with the island's electromagnetic anomaly.
The sun has a dual; in other words, a binary companion.
Brahma regulates Dharma. We know how this applies to the story.
The point at which the sun comes closest to this grand center is "when
the autumnal equinox comes to the first point of Aries." Flight 815
crashed on the autumnal equinox. The first point of Aries refers to
the zodiac sign which is represented by the ram with the Golden
Fleece. This is a 24,000-year cycle, so it takes a long time to cycle
through all of the "ages" of the zodiac, but the quest for the Golden
Fleece would obviously be a good way of getting this point across.
That adventure is a quest for enlightenment, and this book is saying
that the mental virtue becomes strongest as the sun approaches this
So, if the island is this grand center, the "universal magnetism,"
then it's the perfect location to set this story, which does seem to
be a quest for enlightenment.
If you look at the artwork for the Geronimo Jackson song "Dharma
Lady" ( http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:GeronimoJacksonDharmaLady.JPG
), you can see how it might represent this grand center. The galactic
center of the Milky Way is a supermassive black hole, and here we have
a kind of rabbit hole in the cosmos. It's even got lotus blossoms.
Moreover, Sagittarius A*, which is theorized to be close to the event
horizon of this black hole, is an astronomical radio source. That
could certainly explain the "numbers" transmission.
And if you're into the messiah storyline, _The Holy Science_ also
talks about the Saviour (and John), as you can see on the Wikipedia
> Didn't Ben confirm he was a Pisces? With Ben deciding he would follow
> Locke after his Alex revelation, would that make Ben a fisher of men
> follower? Ben makes a move from pharisee to pisces.
I've recently realized another fisher vs. hunter angle to "Lost" via
"The Life and Loves of a She-Devil". Marlene HUNTER was one of the
names used by Ruth, who hated and replaced Mary FISHER.
Bobbo in the Bronxo
"Lost" has actually emphasized Hunter vs. Farmer rather than Hunter
vs. Fisher. Which is not to say that fish haven't been important,
because they certainly have been, especially in the earlier episodes.
Whether we interpret the fish as Christ / Gnostic symbols, or a nod to
the Dogon and the Day of the Fish, or something else, we can't deny
the recurring motif.
I do think, in terms of Pisces, that we're seeing the faith vs.
science conflict, because the key phrase for Pisces (faith) is "I
believe," while the key phrase for Aquarius (science) is "I know."
This has been the Locke vs. Jack debate from the beginning. Since
we're transitioning from the Age of Pisces to the Age of Aquarius
right now, this is an important and timely debate.
Hurley: I'm on a new diet. Nothing but fish and water; and fish and
Ask A Rabbi:
Adar is Dagim/Pisces/Fish corresponding to Naftali and the faculty of
Laughter. Just as fish are covered by the sea, in this month we observe
Purim which celebrates the hidden miracles of G-d which bring salvation
and joy to the Jewish people
"What lies in the shadow of the statue?"
Subject to a wide range of interpretation, the pisces sign
at first glance appears 'H' shaped. But to me it appears more like two
stylized crosses, similar to two connected lower case 'T' s or crosses.
The symbol we have seen on Hurley's basket ball, Juliet's med box tree,
and the wonder star poster includes an additional verticle line, straight
through the middle of the pisces icon. This again appears to me to be an
additional central cross or crucifix.
The 3 stylized crosses are central to the Mount Moriah story of salvation.
Cuse and Lindelof have said Lost is a story about redemption. Fans have
interpreted that statement to mean redemption individually for the
Losties. I see a more encompassing redemption story that includes all the
lovers of the i-land.
> > I've recently realized another fisher vs. hunter angle to "Lost" via
> > "The Life and Loves of a She-Devil". Marlene HUNTER was one of the
> > names used by Ruth, who hated and replaced Mary FISHER.
> "Lost" has actually emphasized Hunter vs. Farmer rather than Hunter
> vs. Fisher.
But now there's reason to believe hunter & fisher are clues to
determine which side characters are on. Ex: Jacob (in the high tower
by the sea) is a fisher.
> Subject to a wide range of interpretation, the pisces sign
> at first glance appears 'H' shaped. But to me it appears more like two
> stylized crosses, similar to two connected lower case 'T' s or crosses.
> The symbol we have seen on Hurley's basket ball, Juliet's med box tree,
> and the wonder star poster includes an additional verticle line,
> straight through the middle of the pisces icon. This again appears to me
> to be an additional central cross or crucifix.
> The 3 stylized crosses are central to the Mount Moriah story of
> Cuse and Lindelof have said Lost is a story about redemption. Fans have
> interpreted that statement to mean redemption individually for the
> Losties. I see a more encompassing redemption story that includes all
> the lovers of the i-land.
It just occurred to me that drawing the central line vertically down the
middle of the pisces icon transforms the '6' point icon into an 8 point
icon. There's a major rebirth theme going on here.
It's like transforming the 6 million dollar man into an 8 million dollar
one. I love this i-land :)
See p. 152, para. 4 of "She-Devil".
> Cuse and Lindelof have said Lost is a story about redemption. Fans have
> interpreted that statement to mean redemption individually for the
> Losties. I see a more encompassing redemption story that includes all the
> lovers of the i-land.
It's about redemption of a prize ticket.
>> > "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"
> See p. 152, para. 4 of "She-Devil".
>> Cuse and Lindelof have said Lost is a story about redemption. Fans have
>> interpreted that statement to mean redemption individually for the ï¿œ
>> Losties. I see a more encompassing redemption story that includes all
>> the lovers of the i-land.
> It's about redemption of a prize ticket.
Loser tickets need to be saved too :)
> The Linder Loft
> <-watch end closely
Since The Linder Gallery picture flashed up as one of the images in the
Spin NY reveal there has been lots of speculation about what it might mean.
Someone who is very familiar with the painting is Michael John Gorman and
Thorsten has contacted him to ask a few questions.
Michael John Gorman is a Director of Science Gallery in Dublin, and has a
website dedicated to the book he has edited and produced about the painting
At least we know which part of the painting we're supposed to focus
on, which was revealed by Lindelof's tweet about Latin on the same day
the video was shown. Gorman acknowledges that the painting is not
well-known, so someone at "Lost" must have picked up on his book and
the painting right before the poster reveal.
The drawing of the three cosmic systems and the Latin phrase meaning
"Others see it yet otherwise" seems to me to point directly to the
Others, who speak the language of the enlightened. The three systems
would represent science (heliocentric), religion (geocentric), and a
compromise between the two. But "yet otherwise" hints at still more
ways — or at least one more — of viewing the cosmos. And I think the
Others know what that is.
"Posted on 14-Nov by michaeljohn in Allegory, Astronomy, Mathematics,
At the front of the green octagonal table in the Linder Gallery, very
prominently positioned in the painting, is a scrap of paper bearing
three competing systems of the universe: the Ptolemaic earth-centred
system at the top left, the sun-centred Copernican system (prohibited
by the Inquisition since 1616) and the compromise system of the Danish
astronomer, Kepler’s mentor Tycho Brahe, which has the inner planets
going around the sun but the sun and the outer planets orbiting around
At the base of this piece of paper in tiny but very precise writing
are the Latin words 'ALY ET ALIA VIDENT' meaning 'Others see it yet
otherwise', suggesting that the three systems presented here are not
exhaustive. Could this be a reference to Johannes Kepler who proposed
that the planets orbit the sun in elliptical paths, did not believe
Tycho’s system was physically plausible and abandoned Copernicus’s
solid crystalline spheres? Behind the diagram of the cosmic systems is
an astrological geniture for an as yet unidentified person born in the
month of March. Perhaps the artist is suggesting the extremely close
link between astronomy and astrology in the seventeenth century –
Tycho Brahe and Kepler both earned income from casting horoscopes.
It is interesting that ALY ET ALIA VIDENT is such a central phrase to
the painting, almost like a caption — Others see it yet otherwise —
the universe is amenable to different forms of interpretation. This is
a strikingly casual stance for the period just a few years prior to
Galileo’s Inquisition trial for Copernicanism. References to Galileo’s
telescopic discoveries, incidentally, are surprisingly absent from the
Linder Gallery, here we seem to be much more in the realm of precision
ALY ET ALIA VIDENT. What is behind this intriguing phrase? Could it be
an oblique reference to Kepler? Or is it just a lack of cosmic
committment? Given its prominence in the painting, could it be a
suggestion that the painting itself is open to radically different
forms of interpretation, or is that just a 21st century way of reading
too much into a scrap of painted paper?
Again, this drawing seems to relate to the frontispiece of Kepler’s
Rudolphine Tables, the book present on the green table, where we
behold the Temple of Urania, muse of astronomy, inhabited by great
astronomers of the past. Tycho Brahe points at the ceiling which is
marked with his own cosmic system, asking the words 'Quid si sic?' —
'What if it is like that?'. Kepler himself is not included in the
temple but sits in the base, looking at an architect’s model as the
'humble' architect of a new edifice of astronomy. Another puzzle:
given that the painting is all about measurement, geometry and
perspective and their relationship with the arts, why is the
perspective of the octagonal green table itself so wonky, apparently
>> Someone who is very familiar with the painting is Michael John Gorman
>> and ï¿œ
>> Thorsten has contacted him to ask a few questions.
> At least we know which part of the painting we're supposed to focus
> on, which was revealed by Lindelof's tweet about Latin on the same day
> the video was shown. Gorman acknowledges that the painting is not
> well-known, so someone at "Lost" must have picked up on his book and
> the painting right before the poster reveal.
> The drawing of the three cosmic systems and the Latin phrase meaning
> "Others see it yet otherwise"
"At the sub atomic level, you loose the capacity to describe what it is.
You get into territory you necessarily have to
start describing it in terms that are more reserved for spiritual
territories of our lives. It's interesting to me that we sorta come full
circle back to this because...it used to be all encompassing, it used to
include spirituality and concepts of God." - Jeremy Davies, phy301: JEREMY
"Jeremy Davis about physics and spirituality"
phy301: JEREMY SEMINAR
class1: Jeremy Davis about physics and spirituality
As a follow-up I asked Michael John about the painter…
> Smack dab in the middle, on top of the world, is Leo, (Lio), the only
> star constellation that contains the Son.
Technically I was wrong, but my heart was in the right place...