Significance of being "marked"
Johnn...@webtv.net
between the being "marked" with the tattoo, and its significance to the
series? ...The Others seemed to believe that if they gave the "mark" to
any one, such as they did with Juliet, they were basically condemning
that individual to a fate worse than death. Why is that? ...And are
the two (both Jack and Juliet being marked) related in some way?
..Jon
rob...@bestweb.net
> I'm just wondering if anyone has been able to figure out a connection
> between the being "marked" with the tattoo, and its significance to the
> series?
A way of distinguishing identical twins.
Johnn...@webtv.net
Phuket, after being marked? ...Jon
David B
Because he was an outsider and outsiders aren't allowed to get marked. He
violated the local taboo by doing so.
Johnn...@webtv.net
>>
>>..But why did Jack become the scum of the
>> Earth amongst the locals at Phuket, after
>> being marked? ...Jon
>
>Because he was an outsider and outsiders
> aren't allowed to get marked. He violated the
> local taboo by doing so.
>
instead of kicking the crap out of him...
..AAR, I guess this means that Juliet's mark (like Jack's), would also
turn her into an outsider amongst her own "island" people. ...Funny,
they didn't exactly beat the crap out of her, and send her packing.
Kind of an odd "island" ritual, if you ask me. ..Apparently no
consequences... So what is the point of her being marked?
.There must be something deeper involved. Consider this: I just
killed a person.. The penalty is death; however, if I am willing to
have this little asterisk tattooed on my back, they'll commute the
sentence. ...Hmmm. Which would I choose?
I'm thinking, perhaps if there are mirror images (off island), of the
people on the island, then being marked would definitely create a means
to tell the two of them apart. ...But if this was the reason for the
tattoo being put on Juliet, then how much does Ben and the Others really
know (but aren't saying)? ...And, is it possible that the Jack in
the future is lacking a tattoo? ...Or how about because of being marked,
Juliet can't leave the island?
...Hmm... In this case, when the whole shebang is rectified in
the end, could it turn out that Jack and Juliet become the Adam and Eve
skeletons? Remember, I said the "incident" has to be rectified in the
past. ...Maybe they're the ones that ultimately stay behind, to do
whatever needs to be done to stop the time-loop.. ...Jon
tdciago
> ..AAR, I guess this means that Juliet's mark (like Jack's), would also
> turn her into an outsider amongst her own "island" people. ...Funny,
> they didn't exactly beat the crap out of her, and send her packing.
> Kind of an odd "island" ritual, if you ask me. ..Apparently no
> consequences... So what is the point of her being marked?
You're forgetting that Isabel was fully prepared to execute Juliet,
but Jack got Ben to commute her sentence, because Ben needed Jack's
medical skills.
Isabel: Ben has commuted Juliet's sentence. Execution is off the
table. He says the rules don't apply. He has, however, ordered her to
be marked.
> .There must be something deeper involved. Consider this: I just
> killed a person.. The penalty is death; however, if I am willing to
> have this little asterisk tattooed on my back, they'll commute the
> sentence. ...Hmmm. Which would I choose?
In this case, it wasn't Juliet's choice. It was Ben's order, done to
save himself.
I just noticed a couple of things while looking over the dialogue from
"Stranger in a Strange Land":
Tom: What kind of people do you think we are, Jack?
Jack: Oh, I don't know, Tom... the kind of people that would take a
pregnant woman... would hang Charlie from a tree... would drag our
people out of the jungle... would kidnap children. That's the kind of
people I think you are.
[Tom walks over to the glass wall and taps it]
Tom: You see this glass house you're living in, Jack? How about I get
you some stones?
Here is an obvious theme of the show: that the Losties believe they
are innocent and the Others are evil, and there's no gray area. We
know, of course, that the Losties are far from a perfect group. But I
also think the glass house could be related to the mirror universe
idea. (We did see Jack reflected in the aquarium glass during his
imprisonment.) As for throwing stones, that has been an ongoing motif
in the show. There have been many, many references to rocks and
stones, and throwing them.
I think Jack represents the mythical Jason of Greek mythology, and I
had suggested a link to the story of Jason and the Argonauts. When
Jason is forced to sow dragon's teeth in the ground, armed men spring
up to attack him. He solves his dilemma by throwing a rock in their
midst. Not knowing where the rock came from, the armed men start
fighting and killing each other, and Jason is saved.
In "Stranger in a Strange Land, " we hear this exchange:
Isabel: That true, Jack? Did Juliet ask you to kill Ben? The
question's simple. Did Juliet ask you to kill Ben?
Jack: [Laughing] No. No, I was lying. I would have done anything to
get my friends out and turning you people against each other was my
best chance of creating chaos.
So there's the same idea, presented in Jack's lie. And we have the
character of Achara in the same episode (immediately following this
scene, as a matter of fact). Not only is the word "Achara" related to
Dharma; it also happens to be the region in present-day Georgia where
the Golden Fleece was located.
"The mark of Dharma is Achara or good conduct. Achara is the mark of
the good. From Achara is Dharma born. Dharma enhances life. Man
attains prosperity and fame, here and hereafter, through the practice
of Dharma.
Good conduct is the highest Dharma. It is the root of all Tapas or
austerities. Righteousness, truth and good works, power and prosperity
- all originate from conduct."
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Hindu_Ethics/id/23083
Golden Rule: One word which sums up the basis of all good
conduct . . . loving kindness. Do not do to others what you do not
want done to yourself.
-- Confucius, Analects 15.23
Essentially, Achara represents the Golden Rule, and Achara also turns
out to be connected with the Golden Fleece.
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>I just noticed a couple of things while looking
> over the dialogue from "Stranger in a Strange
> Land":
>
>Tom: What kind of people do you think we are,
> Jack?
>
>Jack: Oh, I don't know, Tom... the kind of
> people that would take a
>
>pregnant woman... would hang Charlie from a
> tree... would drag our people out of the
> jungle... would kidnap children. That's the
> kind of people I think you are.
>
> [Tom walks over to the glass wall and taps it]
> Tom: You see this glass house you're living
> in, Jack? How about I get you some stones?
>
>Here is an obvious theme of the show: that the
> Losties believe they are innocent and the
> Others are evil, and there's no gray area.
>
say no, as he apparently didn't have a clue as to what had occured when
Desmond turned the key.. I think he was just emphasizing to Jack the
old idiom: the pot calling the kettle black.
But you raise an interesting point: I can see a resemblance in Tom's
words to those who have had their lands invaded by foreigners. Take
North America, for example. ..The Europeans thought that the Indians
they encountered were downright savages (As Jack did with the Others).
..The Indians, on the other hand, considered the Europeans as the "bad
guy" invaders (As Tom did)
MR. FRIENDLY: Oooo, 50 days. That's what -- almost 2 whole months, huh?
Tell me, you go over a man's house for the first time, do you take off
your shoes? Do you put your feet up on his coffee table? Do you walk in
the kitchen, eat food that doesn't belong to you? [he looks at Locke]
Open the door to rooms you got no business opening? You know, somebody a
whole lot smarter than anybody here once said: "Since the dawn of our
species man's been blessed with curiosity." You know the other one about
curiosity don't you, Jack? This is not your island. This is our island.
..I just thought it was an interesting comparison.
You know, we're so dependendant on understanding our history from the
books that were written. But of course, we never will know the "real
truth" about our past.
It goes wihout saying that the loosing individuals in any battle are
definitely going to write the facts down differently than those who
ultimately won the war.
In a similar sense: Back when I was a kid, all the western movies
depicted Cowboys as good, and Indians as bad. ....Now it's the complete
opposite.
The bottom line is: We all live in glass houses. ...Jon
tdciago
> Did Tom know more than he was letting on? �IE: Glass=mirror ? � I would
> say no, as he apparently didn't have a clue as to what had occured when
> Desmond turned the key.. �I think he was just emphasizing to Jack the
> old idiom: the pot calling the kettle black.
I don't know if you've been following the Find 815 ARG, but the main
character in the ARG has gotten a mysterious email and photo from
someone calling himself Zeke Klotho Freundlich. As you know, Zeke was
Sawyer's nickname for Tom (Mr. Friendly). Freundlich is German for
"friendly." Klotho is a figure from Greek mythology, one of the Fates.
There is a Klotho gene that is associated with aging. Experiments
have indicated that life extension may be possible by using the Klotho
protein.
I think the email address of Zeke Klotho Friendly is
zkill...@hotmail.com. There's been speculation about someone in
the ARG named Tom Killen. If you take the email address zkillen_t99
as "Zeke Killen Tom," or rather "Zeke killin' time," it gets
interesting.
Tom has been portrayed as a kind of gruff buffoon, but he was one of
the top Others. He must have known what their purpose was. Remember
that Ben said, "That's home, Jack. Right there, on the other side of
that glass." He may as well have been talking to Alice.
Darren Delgado
I wouldn't say it's the *complete* opposite (Indians good, cowboys
bad). It's more like both sides are presented a little bit less one-
dimensionally, which is generally a good thing.
James Squire
> I just noticed a couple of things while looking over the dialogue from
> "Stranger in a Strange Land":
>
> Tom: What kind of people do you think we are, Jack?
> Jack: Oh, I don't know, Tom... the kind of people that would take a
> pregnant woman... would hang Charlie from a tree... would drag our
> people out of the jungle... would kidnap children. That's the kind of
> people I think you are.
> [Tom walks over to the glass wall and taps it]
> Tom: You see this glass house you're living in, Jack? How about I get
> you some stones?
>
> Here is an obvious theme of the show: that the Losties believe they
> are innocent and the Others are evil, and there's no gray area. We
> know, of course, that the Losties are far from a perfect group. But I
Bear in mind also that this is favored ploy of the evil -- what you
might call "Lying with the truth."
I will admit I'm not as well versed in all things Lost as most people in
this newsgroup, but as I've watched this show, nothing I've seen or
heard from the "Others" has ever made me put them on the same level
morally as the crash victims of Oceanic 815. To suggest that the latter
group consider themselves to be morally perfect is all part of the ploy.
They are certainly susceptible to that temptation, as anyone would be
having landed in such a lonely, hidden place, but I don't buy that they
have succumbed to that temptation.
--
Jim Squire
This Blog Has No Title, Just Words and Links
http://jamessquire.blogspot.com/
Lois Maxwell, who starred as Miss Moneypenny in 14 James Bond movies,
has died, the British Broadcasting Corp. reported Sunday. She was 80.
R.I.P., Miss Moneypenny, 1927-2007
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My boyfriend wanted to go to a Cubs game for his birthday, so here we
are. GO SOX!"
-- sign held up between innings at USCF, Saturday, May 20, 2006
Sox won, 7-0
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>I wouldn't say it's the *complete* opposite
> (Indians good, cowboys bad). It's more like
> both sides are presented a little bit less one-
> dimensionally, which is generally a good
> thing.
>
not they end up going off the deep end in the opposite direction.
..So the characters still become one-dimensional.
..Notice how any whites in the earlier Black sit-coms were always
portrayed as buffoons.
Likewise, with Indians. The Chiefs in the movies today are "always"
portrayed as the wisest men who have ever walked the face of this Earth.
Individuals who would never take from the Earth, without giving back. --
Gimme a break !!
Even LOST... Notice how the races are equally represented, to keep
everyone happy?
..The jet was flying from Australia, for Christ sake. ... So where the
heck are all the Australians? ...Jon
Darren Delgado
Oh, so this is some reverse racism, persecuted white man stuff.
Gotcha.
Johnn...@webtv.net
>
>Oh, so this is some reverse racism,
> persecuted white man stuff. Gotcha.
>