Desmond
cop...@yahoo.com
Brandon
thinbluemime
wrote:
> So was his "special ability" merely a red herring?
>
> Brandon
Desmond had no super powers before arriving on the island. Desmond was
just a common guy. He liked to drink. He wasn't very good at following
through on commitments. He didn't fulfill his military obligation. He
failed to show up at his wedding with Ruth. He drank his way out of the
monastery responsibilities. He threw away Penny's ring that he couldn't
really afford because he didn't have a job.
Desmond did have one moment of inspiration though, when he realized that
an Other had foreknowledge of a building collapse, and she did nothing to
prevent the disaster or the deaths.
I guess you could call Desmond a common Joe.
Bob
>
> Brandon
No, it was a good clue. How does someone know that something is going
to happen? If you were investigating a mystery -- and "Lost" is a
mystery -- the obvious guess would be a good one: that the person with
foreknowledge has some instrumental cx to the events. The next guess
is that although he has no instrumentality, he has been let in on
events that have been arranged to occur.
Many characters have revealed similar foreknowledge, they've just been
more subtle about it. Jack let slip one remark, "...not again", about
an event that ostensibly hadn't happened before. Notice how he and
other characters have often seemed to know just where to be at certain
times?
How about the cigaret with lipstick on the wrong end, at the
ostensible birth of Locke? How does that cigaret get used again?
Bobbo in the Bronxo
tdciago
> Many characters have revealed similar foreknowledge, they've just been
> more subtle about it. �Jack let slip one remark, "...not again", about
Are you referring to "All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues"? Jack's
comment was about Ethan possibly killing Claire, a pregnant woman.
That remark is explained by the flashback, in which it's revealed that
Christian operated on a pregnant woman while impaired, cutting her
hepatic artery and causing her death. Jack wasn't going to let
another pregnant woman die if he could prevent it. He was unable to
save Christian's patient, so he was determined to save Claire.
[Back on the island, we see Jack lying in the mud at the bottom of the
cliff, just coming to. Kate is trying to help him.]
KATE: Jack, Jack. Jack, are you okay?
JACK: How long was I out?
KATE: I don't know, I'm sorry, you slid on the rocks and. . .
JACK: Ethan?
KATE: What?
JACK: Ethan was here.
KATE: You banged your head, Jack.
JACK: No, no. He was here.
KATE: You have to stop. The rain has washed away the trail. Even if he
was here -- you've got -- Jack!
JACK: I'm not letting him do this.
KATE: Not letting him?
JACK: Not again.
[FLASHBACK]
[We see Jack sitting in a hospital office, with a committee "hearing"
the case of the woman who died.]
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: We realized that her blood pressure was continuing
to drop precipitously, at which point the patient went into cardiac
arrest. Of course, every effort was made to resuscitate her, but the
severity of her injuries, the amount of internal bleeding, made that
impossible. Now, in my professional opinion, ladies and gentlemen, and
that's all I have, by the time I was called in the damage was
irreversible.
HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR: Okay, thanks, Christian. Sorry about this
formality.
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Of course.
HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR: Just one final detail -- you were aware of the
patient's pregnancy when you went into the procedure?
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Absolutely. The patient's husband had informed the
attending in the ER. It was, however, extremely early in the
pregnancy, so our primary focus had to be on the mother.
HOSPITAL ADMINISTRATOR: Okay, then. I think we're done here. The final
report will be filed.
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Okay.
JACK: I need to -- revise my statement. I didn't come into the O.R.
until well into the procedure.
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Jack?
JACK: I was warned by one of the nurses that my father was operating
under the influence.
CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD: Jack. This is not. . .
JACK: By the time I got there it was clear that my father was not only
incapacitated, but that he had also severed the patient's hepatic
artery, which, in my professional opinion, caused the crisis which led
to her death.
cop...@yahoo.com
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 20:13:41 -0500, cop...@yahoo.com <cop...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > So was his "special ability" merely a red herring?
>
> > Brandon
>
> Desmond had no super powers before arriving on the island. Desmond was
> just a common guy.
And that changed after he turned the key.
Eloise said the island wasn't done with him in LA.
Brandon
Remysun
> Desmond did have one moment of inspiration though, when he realized that
> an Other had foreknowledge of a building collapse, and she did nothing to
> prevent the disaster or the deaths.
Was that an entire building with many deaths, or just the scaffolding
with one?
thinbluemime
> On Dec 26, 9:38ï¿œpm, thinbluemime <thinbluem...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Desmond did have one moment of inspiration though, when he realized
>> that ￜ
>> an Other had foreknowledge of a building collapse, and she did nothing
>> to ￜ
>> prevent the disaster or the deaths.
>
> Was that an entire building with many deaths, or just the scaffolding
> with one?
It was just a metaphor :)
Like an implosion that left a football field size crater in the ground and
exposed the island.
A black Swan event.
Bob
> On Dec 26, 10:17 pm, Bob <robg...@bestweb.net> wrote:
> > Many characters have revealed similar foreknowledge, they've just been
> > more subtle about it. Jack let slip one remark, "...not again", about
> > an event that ostensibly hadn't happened before.
> Are you referring to "All the Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues"? Jack's
> comment was about Ethan possibly killing Claire, a pregnant woman.
> That remark is explained by the flashback, in which it's revealed that
> Christian operated on a pregnant woman while impaired, cutting her
> hepatic artery and causing her death. Jack wasn't going to let
> another pregnant woman die if he could prevent it. He was unable to
> save Christian's patient, so he was determined to save Claire.
I don't see that as compatible with:
> JACK: I'm not letting him do this.
>
> KATE: Not letting him?
>
> JACK: Not again.
...unless you wank "him" as referring to God or Fate or the
equivalent.
Darren Delgado
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 08:15:00 -0500, Remysun <remysun2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 9:38 pm, thinbluemime <thinbluem...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Desmond did have one moment of inspiration though, when he realized
> >> that
> >> to
>
> > Was that an entire building with many deaths, or just the scaffolding
> > with one?
>
> It was just a metaphor :)
No, it was you envisioning 9/11 in the scaffolding scene, in a fever
dream, just like you see 9/11 in your coffee and in Disney movies.
thinbluemime
<darren...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Desmond did have one moment of inspiration though, when he realized ￜ
>> It was just a metaphor :)
>
> No, it was you envisioning 9/11 in the scaffolding scene, in a fever
> dream, just like you see 9/11 in your coffee and in Disney movies.
"Just <belch> savin' the world brotha'"
http://tinyurl.com/9ncrqf
tdciago
> I don't see that as compatible with:
>
> > JACK: I'm not letting him do this.
>
> > KATE: Not letting him?
>
> > JACK: Not again.
>
> ...unless you wank "him" as referring to God or Fate or the
> equivalent.
It's an intentionally confusing line. The audience is *supposed* to
wonder what Jack means, and then we get our answer in the flashback,
which *immediately* follows Jack's statement. He's not going to allow
a pregnant woman to die on his watch. Not again. Ethan is not going
to do what Christian did, which, in Jack's mind, probably has as much
to do with his own obsession with fixing things as it does with
concern over another pregnant victim. Jack isn't going to be left
holding the bag. Not again.
Surely you understand how the flashbacks are related to the on-island
events. (Actually, maybe you don't.) Not to mention the fact that
Jack had just revived after being knocked out, and all of these
thoughts were jumbled together in his mind.
And just in case people don't understand what you're getting at with
regard to the cigarette, I'll quote a post you made in 2008:
"Later, there's lipstick on the wrong end of her mother's cigaret in
the hospital,
showing that she started to try to smoke it and then put it away,
which would make sense only in the context of multiple run-thrus of
'pretend', wherein she's told each time she can't smoke there."
What you've just described is very likely exactly what happened within
the context of filming the show. Multiple takes are filmed, and the
actress probably used the same cigarette more than once, picking it up
from the wrong end on the take that ended up onscreen. This in no way
serves as evidence of some wacky scenario in which these people
actually have to act out — over and over again — the lies they're
supposedly going to tell, right down to Locke's grandmother being told
not to smoke in a hospital.
Bob
> > I don't see that as compatible with:
>
> > > JACK: I'm not letting him do this.
>
> > > KATE: Not letting him?
>
> > > JACK: Not again.
>
> > ...unless you wank "him" as referring to God or Fate or the
> > equivalent.
>
> It's an intentionally confusing line. The audience is *supposed* to
> wonder what Jack means, and then we get our answer in the flashback,
> which *immediately* follows Jack's statement.
Well you see, now THAT IS what I consider a red herring, a Miss Clue
placed to confuse us.
> He's not going to allow
> a pregnant woman to die on his watch. Not again. Ethan is not going
> to do what Christian did, which, in Jack's mind, probably has as much
> to do with his own obsession
So much of an obsession that he conflates them as a singular "him"?
Unless you think Jack thinks Ethan is really Christian after plastic
surgery.
> Surely you understand how the flashbacks are related to the on-island
> events. (Actually, maybe you don't.)
I think we understand them differently. I do not think, as some do,
that they reveal characters' on-the-spot musings.
> Not to mention the fact that
> Jack had just revived after being knocked out, and all of these
> thoughts were jumbled together in his mind.
He seemed to be much clearer-headed then than he appeared during
various other events where he wasn't conflating persons.
> And just in case people don't understand what you're getting at with
> regard to the cigarette, I'll quote a post you made in 2008:
>
> "Later, there's lipstick on the wrong end of her mother's cigaret in
> the hospital,
> showing that she started to try to smoke it and then put it away,
> which would make sense only in the context of multiple run-thrus of
> 'pretend', wherein she's told each time she can't smoke there."
>
> What you've just described is very likely exactly what happened within
> the context of filming the show. Multiple takes are filmed, and the
> actress probably used the same cigarette more than once, picking it up
> from the wrong end on the take that ended up onscreen.
It was so visible that it had to have been planted as a clue. No way
they'd've reused that cig had they not wanted us to see that. I and
my friends (and Damon's father) were in a student prod'n of Damon's,
and they took more care than that THEN. No way "Lost" would be less
careful than a collegian's movie.
On top of that, what was the point of the whole cigaret bit? Seems
like wasted lines & action if we weren't supposed to get something
from it. If for some reason they just wanted to establish grandma as
a smoker, they could've done that in the previous scene, at home, in
less time. But no, they perseverated on it, with the cigaret case and
the nurse or attendant telling her she couldn't smoke there.
Bobbo in the Bronxo
thinbluemime
A very well thought out and logical argument for the lipstick issue
tdciago.
In the other case with the scaffolding, it was obvious that Ms Hawking had
foreknowledge of the event. She seemed to gloat in front of Desmond as she
exhibited her knowledge, while the red shoe man died in the rubble. That
scene seemed to foreshadow the demise of Daniel, her own son, with the
foreknowledge she gained from the island time traveling jumps.
So Hawking knew about the scaffold collapse by either:
1) Time Travel
2) Pre Planning
3) Other explanation that I have missed
In the realm of the Lost fictional universe, time travel would SEEM to be
the most likely explanation.
thinbluemime
<darren...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Was that an entire building with many deaths, or just the scaffolding
>> > with one?
> It was just a metaphor :)
>> Like an implosion that left a football field size crater in the ground
>> and exposed the island.
>> A black Swan event.
> No, it was you envisioning 9/11 in the scaffolding scene, in a fever
> dream, just like you see 9/11 in your coffee and in Disney movies.
"It is with a heavy heart that I must bid you farewell. Despite my fervent
commitment to the mission of the Dharma Initiative, the realities of a
broken marriage, heavy casino debt and some unfounded police charges have
required that I change my present circumstances. It is with great
excitement that I can inform you of my pending senior sales management job
at a large multi-brand auto dealership in Dubai. I have enjoyed our brief
association more than I can ever express, and if you are ever in the
Middle East and need a car, please e-mail me for a special "Dharma rate".
Hans Van Eeghen, also known as Black Swan
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Swan
(From the ARG 2008, that 'was not was' due to abc budget cuts and a bad
economy)
--------------------
From the first ARG 2006. Lawrence Peck made off with the retirement fund
of a health-care union.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Inmate_asylum2.jpg
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Inmate_asylum.jpg
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lawrence_Peck
--------------------
Follow the Bouncing Balls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUuyzQDmjY
Darren Delgado
I'm thinking Desmond shared the scaffold experience with Daniel while
on the Island together at some point; Daniel wrote about it in his
journal, which Hawking retrieved after she killed him.
Bob
> > In the other case with the scaffolding, it was obvious that Ms Hawking had
> > foreknowledge of the event. She seemed to gloat in front of Desmond as she
> > exhibited her knowledge, while the red shoe man died in the rubble. That
> > scene seemed to foreshadow the demise of Daniel, her own son, with the
> > foreknowledge she gained from the island time traveling jumps.
>
> > So Hawking knew about the scaffold collapse by either:
>
> > 1) Time Travel
> > 2) Pre Planning
> > 3) Other explanation that I have missed
>
> I'm thinking Desmond shared the scaffold experience with Daniel while
> on the Island together at some point; Daniel wrote about it in his
> journal, which Hawking retrieved after she killed him.
So why would Desmond just happen to show up at that particular
jeweler's on that particular day? And, considering that he wasn't
asking anything out of the ordinary that would distinguish him from
other customers, how would she recognize him?
Bobbo in the Bronxo
Darren Delgado
> On Dec 27, 10:38 pm, Darren Delgado <darrendelg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > In the other case with the scaffolding, it was obvious that Ms Hawking had
> > > foreknowledge of the event. She seemed to gloat in front of Desmond as she
> > > exhibited her knowledge, while the red shoe man died in the rubble. That
> > > scene seemed to foreshadow the demise of Daniel, her own son, with the
> > > foreknowledge she gained from the island time traveling jumps.
>
> > > So Hawking knew about the scaffold collapse by either:
>
> > > 1) Time Travel
> > > 2) Pre Planning
> > > 3) Other explanation that I have missed
>
> > I'm thinking Desmond shared the scaffold experience with Daniel while
> > on the Island together at some point; Daniel wrote about it in his
> > journal, which Hawking retrieved after she killed him.
>
> So why would Desmond just happen to show up at that particular
> jeweler's on that particular day?
Because he always showed up at the jeweler's on that particular day.
He was remembering each step as it happened because he had already
relived it, and making sure to do all the same steps up until
deserting Penny which he planned not to repeat.
All Hawking had to know from the journal was that Desmond had a run in
with Hawking in 1996 while buying Penny the ring, and it would be a
piece of cake for her to pop up there. How she got rid of the real
jeweller is what I would wonder about, maybe she had Charles buy the
shop.
tdciago
> on the Island together at some point; Daniel wrote about it in his
> journal, which Hawking retrieved after she killed him.
There *is* evidence to suggest that this may be the case:
PENNY: What do you mean? Is Des gonna be okay?
MS. HAWKING: I don't know. For the first time in a long time, I don't
know what's going to happen next.
So her knowledge of future events seems not to have extended beyond
what Daniel himself knew.
Deneph
> So was his "special ability" merely a red herring?
>
> Brandon
Desmond is uniquely and miraculously special and it will be proven in
season 6! It will!
solarr
On Dec 26, 7:13 pm, "cop...@yahoo.com" <cop...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So was his "special ability" merely a red herring?
I don't think so. Of all the major characters on "Lost", we probably
know the least about Desmond's family. I think his lineage will be
revealed in Season 6 and that will ultimately reveal why he was so
"special".
But, who the hell really knows with this show!? ;-)
Unfortunately, we will all "really know" in a matter or mere months.
Sad to say. The mystery will be gone. And so will most of us. :-(
-/< /\ />-
Bob
> Desmond is uniquely and miraculously special and it will be proven in
> season 6! It will!
Care to formulate a little money bet on that?