Supergirl?
KalElFan
Carleton.CA (Richard K Bethell) wrote:
>Don't the rights to Supergirl still belong to Richard Donner or someone?
I'm not an absolute expert on this, but I don't think they ever belonged
to Donner (who directed Superman I and part of Superman II but gave
way to Richard Lester who was the named director on Superman II and
the sole director of Superman III). The rights at that time were "owned"
by the Salkinds who'd acquired them from WB/DC Comics. After
making Superman III and then Supergirl, the Salkinds reportedly ran
into financial trouble and sold their movie rights to Cannon Films, which
did Superman IV and planned to do a Superman V. But then Cannon
ran into trouble and Superman V never happened. In between all this,
the Salkinds made a syndicated Superboy TV series that you had to
actively search for and that was pretty bad. (I remember one or two
episodes where Superboy went up against a Dracula/Prince of
Darkness character, and those were probably the best episodes!)
Sometime within the past few years (by now, I think it's at least two
years ago), WB reacquired all the rights to the Superman movie series.
They took out a full page ad in Variety to announce the reacquisition
at the time. After that, they had Jon Peters start work on trying to
revive the series, which is where all the Superman Reborn and
Superman: The New Movie rumors have been coming from. When
Peters started working on developing the movie, L&C didn't look
like it was going to last very long.
WB/DC Comics obviously must have got the TV rights back from
the Salkinds after Superboy, or we wouldn't be watching L&C. I'm
almost certain that WB also has the TV and Movie rights to Supergirl
at this point as well, at least to the Kara/Superman's Cousin version
of Supergirl who I believe they killed off as part of the 1985 crisis
and re-doing of everything. The "new" Supergirl, Matrix or whatever
her name is, may be partly owned by another comics company as
I understand it, but I think the old Supergirl would be the one they'd
bring back in any L&C spin-off. (Characters never die permanently in
fantasy. If you need 'em or want 'em, you just bring 'em back!)
>Everything I've heard or read about the Superman Reborn movie is that it
>will have nothing at all to do with LNC. Teri even said in her AOL chat
>that she wasn't interested in carrying the role on past the small screen.
That's what I heard about Superman Reborn as well, but again all that
was before L&C started to skyrocket in the ratings. If L&C had been kept
a secret and faded away after season 1, it might have been not much
different than the failed Superboy syndicated series. It would have had
little or no effect on any movie plans. But now, *because* of the
success of L&C, I'd argue that the movie people ignore L&C at their very
great peril. True, the target markets may be somewhat different, but the
L&C audience is large enough now that there's some very significant
overlap, especially in the younger demographics that are a critical
target market for theatrical releases. The success of L&C and any movie
series is now intertwined in a way it wasn't back in season 1, IMHO.
BTW, you may have picked up that Teri-denies-an-interest-in-the-movie
business from an earlier post by someone in this group. But I checked
the full transcipt of the AOL interview of 12/18/95 again, and the
"denial"
you're referring to was very soft. Asked whether there was going to be a
movie, she said "Not to my knowledge. I *probably* wouldn't do it
though..." How many times have we heard actors say something like
that before and go on to make the movie? Especially since they all
seem to be afraid of even mentioning the movie right now, probably
because they know it impacts how people view the L&C TV series.
Also BTW, you got my earlier post a bit garbled where I referred to
what TPTB might be planning with respect to Supergirl. But I'm making
the point a different way in the following and last section, so I
forgive you. ;-)
>I think a Supergirl show would be a fine idea.
Don't disagree with you at all, Richard. Of course, the last thing I'd
want to see is Supergirl as a *regular* in this series, and I doubt
very much they'd do that. However, you have to believe that the
success of Lois & Clark has the corporate suits salivating to turn
Superman into a Star Trek-like franchise. [If it doesn't have them
salivating, they're asleep on the job.] Personally, I'd love to see them
succeed in doing that, but there's a right way and a wrong way to
go about it. You touched on the right way in the sentence above: have
Supergirl appear in L&C as a crossover/introduction to her own new
series. But there's no reason why that has to mean the death of
L&C at the same time. For example, we've got two Star Trek TV
series now, plus the movie series running at the same time.
My concern is that TPTB may not view it this way, and that if we
see Supergirl in the very near future it may be an omen that L&C
is dead within a year, sacrificed on the altar of the new Superman
movie. That would be a shame, and I think many FoLC would
resent it and be outraged, hardly the climate you want to create
in building a successful franchise.
KalElFan
fueled a bit by an AOL post that probably means nothing.
But here it is and my response:
"---WB asked:
>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
Surely, it's meant to be! When someone with the handle ---WB
pops in and asks us whether the introduction of a DC-owned
(which means Time Warner/Warner Brothers/WB!) spin-off
character is a good idea, it must be a sign from the television
gods that it will soon happen! Who knows? Maybe Through a
Glass Darkly does refer to the city-shrinking Brainiac and the
bottled city of Kandor from which the pre-crisis Supergirl came.
Maybe in "Big Girls Don't Fly," assuming that's what BGDF
stands for, Supergirl emerges from Kandor into our "big" world.
[All this is of course the raving lunatic speculation of a writer/
accountant's overactive imagination, but it would *almost* fit,
wouldn't it? Normally this would all be in my too-good-to-post
file, but I'll make an exception in this case.]
Anyway, if they did do it at some point I think the introduction
of Supergirl -- the *real* one, Kara, Superman's cousin, and not
this post-crisis Matrix, whoever she is -- would be a great idea.
Assuming, of course, that it isn't an omen of something sinister:
e.g., the intention to pull the plug on L&C next year, so they can
jump to the Superman movie that's rumored to be released in
1997, so they can leave us with just Supergirl on TV after only 4
years of L&C. It wouldn't be that, would it? Because if that's what
it is, then I'm afraid many FoLC might shout: STICK YOUR MOVIE
AND YOUR SUPERGIRL WHERE THE SUN NEVER SHINES!
Anyway, just the raving lunatic speculation of a paranoid writer/
accountant's overactive imagination...
Richard K Bethell
KalElFan (kale...@aol.com) writes:
> Slow news day, so KalElFan is reduced to wild speculation,
> fueled a bit by an AOL post that probably means nothing.
> But here it is and my response:
>
>
> "---WB asked:
>
>>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
>
> Surely, it's meant to be! When someone with the handle ---WB
> pops in and asks us whether the introduction of a DC-owned
> (which means Time Warner/Warner Brothers/WB!) spin-off
Don't the rights to Supergirl still belong to Richard Donner or someone?
> character is a good idea, it must be a sign from the television
> it is, then I'm afraid many FoLC might shout: STICK YOUR MOVIE
> AND YOUR SUPERGIRL WHERE THE SUN NEVER SHINES!
Everything I've heard or read about the Superman:Reborn movie is that it
will have nothing at all to do with LNC. Teri even said in her AOL chat
that she wasn't interested in carrying the role on past the small screen.
I think a Supergirl show would be a fine idea. There's never been a female
superhero done with dignity, as I'm sure Linda and Lindsay would attest
to. Supergirl doesn't come with as much baggage either as she's not well
known, so they could completely up-rev her.
--
Richard Bethell * cj...@freenet.carleton.ca * rbet...@magi.com
"I'll assimilate you, * http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~cj434
you'll assimilate me, happiness is irrelevant." Barney of Borg
**** T H E P R I N T I N G H O U S E ****
Kal El Jr
writes:
>Slow news day, so KalElFan is reduced to wild speculation,
>fueled a bit by an AOL post that probably means nothing.
>But here it is and my response:
>
>
>"---WB asked:
>
>>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
> (snip)
>Anyway, if they did do it at some point I think the introduction
>of Supergirl -- the *real* one, Kara, Superman's cousin, and not
>this post-crisis Matrix, whoever she is -- would be a great idea.
I guess I would like it, but there is a problem. Kara is *dead*. She
*never* existed as far as the current DC continuity is concerned. Matrix
is Supergirl now, not Kara. Kara was erased from history because her
existence kept Superman from being unique. Matrix's powers are *totally*
different from Superman's. Kara's powers would probably be easier to
create in the show, while they would have to work a little differently to
do Matrix's powers. In this show, Superman's powers have transferred to
other people several times. Don't bring in another Kryptonian. This will
take away some of his appeal.
My name is cooler.
Brian "Kal El Jr" Wilson
"Love is the most powerful force in the entire universe. If you hold it
in your heart, you can achieve the impossible. And if you have enough
loved ones, then you have an unbeatable army that can overcome all
obstacles." -Myself
KalElFan
writes:
>I guess I would like it, but there is a problem. Kara is *dead*. She
>*never* existed as far as the current DC continuity is concerned.
You probably didn't catch my other post in this thread where I
acknowledged she was dead. If people who died in the comics
never came back, there wouldn't be any comics. There are
always about 99 ways to fix things like that.
From your post in the comics group, I know you've developed
a bit of an emotional attachment to this Matrix. But you must
realize that the vast majority of the audience for the TV series
or the movies wouldn't know her from a hole in the ground.
It's the same reason they brought back Robin for the last
Batman flick.
Anyway, don't worry. Matrix can still be Supergirl's stand-in.
You know, waiting in the wings and stuff, in case she dies
again or somethin'. Or like those wrestlers who have to wait
outside the ring until they get tagged by their partner to come
in and help. [Gee, I shoulda done another TPTB piece using
all this stuff.]
>My name is cooler.
Prove it, Junior. :-)
>Brian "Kal El Jr" Wilson
Hey, didn't you used to work for The Beach Boys?
>"Love is the most powerful force in the entire universe.
I thought it was gravity. Or maybe I'm thinkin' of the strong
nuclear force that holds the nucleii of atoms together. Then
again, maybe it's Rush Limbaugh...
Carter Lupton
"the failed Superboy syndicated series"
Failed? 4 full seasons and 100 episodes? Compare to L&C who will need a
5th season to chalk up as many eps.
The quality of this show is also not that bad. Stacy Haiduk as Lana Lang
was every bit as scrumptious as Teri's Lois, and Gerard Christopher, who
played CK/Supes did, I think, a better interpretation than Dean Cain, who
is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man. Also, there were great
villains from the comics, not just Lex but Bizarro, Metallo and Mxyzptlk.
Kal El Jr
writes:
>In article <4itjvr$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kal...@aol.com (Kal El
Jr)
>writes:
>
>>I guess I would like it, but there is a problem. Kara is *dead*. She
>>*never* existed as far as the current DC continuity is concerned.
>
>You probably didn't catch my other post in this thread where I
>acknowledged she was dead. If people who died in the comics
>never came back, there wouldn't be any comics. There are
>always about 99 ways to fix things like that.
>
Okay, so I missed it.
>From your post in the comics group, I know you've developed
>a bit of an emotional attachment to this Matrix. But you must
>realize that the vast majority of the audience for the TV series
>or the movies wouldn't know her from a hole in the ground.
>It's the same reason they brought back Robin for the last
>Batman flick.
>
I might have a bit of an "attachment" to her, but that is because I read
the comic books. I started getting in to the comics after Kara was wiped
from existence and Matrix made her debut. I do like Kara. I have always
loved the "Supergirl" movie and I own the comic in which she died. But
her time has passed. I am used to Matrix and sorta grew up on her. I
will always like Kara, but it is time that Matrix was acknowledged as the
one carrying the "S" now.
>Anyway, don't worry. Matrix can still be Supergirl's stand-in.
>You know, waiting in the wings and stuff, in case she dies
>again or somethin'. Or like those wrestlers who have to wait
>outside the ring until they get tagged by their partner to come
>in and help. [Gee, I shoulda done another TPTB piece using
>all this stuff.]
>
Not that bad, but I still think that people refuse to admit that Kara
isn't the Maid of Might anymore. Until that happens, Matrix won't get the
respect and acknowledgement she deserves.
>
>>My name is cooler.
>
>Prove it, Junior. :-)
>
I guess I was being a little petty saying that. But I'm named after
Kal-El as if I was his son, while you're named after him as an admirer and
a fan (short for fanatic).
>
>>Brian "Kal El Jr" Wilson
>
>Hey, didn't you used to work for The Beach Boys?
>
Hey now. Does EVERYONE have to see this? It's bad enough that my history
teacher keeps calling me "Beach Boy", but do I have to put up with it here
too?
>
>>"Love is the most powerful force in the entire universe.
>
>I thought it was gravity. Or maybe I'm thinkin' of the strong
>nuclear force that holds the nucleii of atoms together. Then
>again, maybe it's Rush Limbaugh...
>
You made your point! Even though you're wrong. Rush Limbaugh, indeed!
Brian "Kal El Jr" Wilson
"Love is the most powerful force in the entire universe. If you hold it
Steve Cannon
>>From your post in the comics group, I know you've developed
>>a bit of an emotional attachment to this Matrix. But you must
>>realize that the vast majority of the audience for the TV series
>>or the movies wouldn't know her from a hole in the ground.
>>It's the same reason they brought back Robin for the last
>>Batman flick.
>>
I have to clarify here... first off, the Batman movies have REALLY
deviated from the actual comic book history of Batman and co. Also,
they used Dick Grayson as Robin because he was the first Robin in ANY
Batman history, pre- or post-crisis. You cannot use this to justify
your Supergirl argument.
>I might have a bit of an "attachment" to her, but that is because I read
>the comic books. I started getting in to the comics after Kara was wiped
>from existence and Matrix made her debut. I do like Kara. I have always
>loved the "Supergirl" movie and I own the comic in which she died. But
>her time has passed. I am used to Matrix and sorta grew up on her. I
>will always like Kara, but it is time that Matrix was acknowledged as the
>one carrying the "S" now.
>
Agreed completely!
Steve
Steve Cannon
Have to agree there. Cain does Clark justice, but his Supes is FLAT.
Agree on the S-Boy series too. It really was not all that bad, for a syndicated series. had it been the full-blown network deal th=
at L and C is, I'm sure it would have been terrific!
Just my $0.02.
Steve
Steve Cannon
>I guess I would like it, but there is a problem. Kara is *dead*. She
>is Supergirl now, not Kara. Kara was erased from history because her
>existence kept Superman from being unique. Matrix's powers are *totally*
>different from Superman's. Kara's powers would probably be easier to
>create in the show, while they would have to work a little differently to
>do Matrix's powers. In this show, Superman's powers have transferred to
>other people several times. Don't bring in another Kryptonian. This will
>take away some of his appeal.
>
th matrix if there is to be a Supergirl.
On another note, the references to Batman have been everywhere this season! Why must they tease us like this?
Steve
Keir
Carter Lupton (lupton@news-server) writes:
>Dean Cain, who is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man.
I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
now, no physical violence)
Keir.
KalElFan
(Fox-Force 5) writes:
>>[Referring to article <11...@gold.win-uk.net>, in which
>>ke...@gold.win-uk.net (Keir) writes:]
>>
>>I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
>>Although I like Christopher Reeve, the bumbling 'movie-
>>style' Clark Kent always kinda got on my nerves. What
>>do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be
>>nice now, no physical violence)
>
>There is no contest on this one. No one comes close to Reeve's
>depiction of Clark/Supes. Not only could he actually act (sorry
>Dean fans); but he kept the two personas as different as possible
>when playing their respective roles. He incorporated both different
>mannerisms for each character (C.K./S) and even different voices
>and inflections (higher, shakier pitch for C.K.). I also loved the way
>he would always keep adjusting his glasses. Cain's Superman is
>no different from his CK except for crossing his arms. For God's
>sake, he could at least lower his voice a few octaves. Plus, Reeve
>fits the physical description of Supes; he's got the chiseled facial
>features, and more importantly he's a towering 6'4" (which, I believe,
>is the exact height Superman is supposed to be). Cain just doesn't
>deliver in this department either (he'd be lucky to clear 6 feet).
>Don't get me wrong, I'm not a L&C basher - I've watched the show
>from its inception - but if anyone thinks Cain can hold a candle to
>any of his Super-predecessors then they should check out more
>of the movies and old serials. Just my opinion.
All the portrayals are different and have something to recommend
them. I agree that Christopher Reeve's is the definitive one, at
least in the first two movies and especially in Superman I. That
first movie made a lot of critics' top ten lists (#1 on Rex Reed's,
but maybe that's because he had a cameo in the movie <g>). If
there had been 10 nominees instead of 5, then Reeve probably
would have got an Oscar nomination. I believe both Siskel and
Ebert had him on their lists.
I'm not sure that this makes Reeve a better actor, though. In fact
his later roles, where he in many cases tried to go out of his way
to distance himself from Superman, made his limitations as an
actor very obvious. I think his best work after Superman was in
Somewhere In Time, which he made right afterwards with Jane
Seymour. He should have stuck more to roles like that: hero
types, romantic leads, and so on. A lot of actors have ruined or
at least seriously set back their careers by trying to branch out
too much, way beyond their range. There are very few actors
who can play a romantic lead opposite Meg Ryan in a couple
of movies, then go on to play a gay Philadelphia lawyer with
AIDS, followed by a loveable moron and then an astronaut. And
even those guys wouldn't make very good Supermen. (Hanks
would be great as Clark Kent, but in the suit he just wouldn't
work. At least Keaton got to hide behind the mask and armor.
BTW, Clooney will make a better Batman than Batman. I actually
think he is Batman <g>, and they haven't even started shooting
the movie yet.)
Dean Cain's main problem at first was his youth and his brief
90210 history. He was more than Superboy but not quite
Superman to a lot of folks. Of course, the whole point of L&C,
at least as I understand it was originally conceived, was to
broaden the appeal of Superman to the female demographic.
Given that objective, the casting made sense.
Cain's really grown into the role in season 2 and 3, IMHO. The
recasting of Jimmy Olsen helped, because Justin Whalin makes
Cain look older and more mature. But I think Cain also continues
to get better as an actor. He's light years ahead of George Reeves
in the old 50's serial (I liked that series a lot, but let's face it
Reeves was WOODEN. Al Gore is Mr. Charisma by comparison <g>).
The point about Cain's Superman and Clark Kent not being that
much different may be true, but my understanding is that's the
way it's supposed to be now. Since Reeve played the role, they've
rewritten Clark Kent in the comics to be less wimpish.
On the Lois Lane side, it's a little closer call because they were all
very good. But I think Teri Hatcher is probably the best now. Margot
Kidder was good, too, as was Noel Neill (sp?) in the 50's series.
Fox-Force 5
>I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
>Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
>Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
>What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
>now, no physical violence)
There is no contest on this one. No one comes close to Reeve's
depiction of Clark/Supes. Not only could he actually act (sorry Dean fans);
but he kept the two personas as different as possible when playing their
respective roles. He incorporated both different mannerisms for each
character (C.K./S) and even different voices and inflections (higher, shakier
pitch for C.K.). I also loved the way he would always keep adjusting his
glasses. Cain's Superman is no different from his CK except for
crossing his arms. For god's sake, he could at least lower his voice a few
octaves. Plus, Reeve fits the physical description of Supes; he's got the
chiseled facial features, and more importantly he's a towering 6'4" (which, I
believe, is the exact height Superman is supposed to be). Cain just doesn't
deliver in this department either (he'd be lucky to clear 6 feet). Don't get
me wrong, I'm not a L&C basher - I've watched the show from its inception -
but if anyone thinks Cain can hold a candle to any of his Super-predecessors -
then they should check out more of the movies and old serials. Just my
opinion.
JW
VARTOX
writes:
>But I think Cain also continues
>to get better as an actor. He's light years ahead of George Reeves
>in the old 50's serial (I liked that series a lot, but let's face it
>Reeves was WOODEN. Al Gore is Mr. Charisma by comparison <g>).
>
George "WOODEN"? Think you might have him confused with more than one
person who's ever played Batman. If you look at the role of Superman
being about power, and the ability to wield it not only responsibly, but
authoritatively, then George's is the classic portrayal, followed closely
by Kirk Alyn's serial work.
>The point about Cain's Superman and Clark Kent not being that
>much different may be true, but my understanding is that's the
>way it's supposed to be now. Since Reeve played the role, they've
>rewritten Clark Kent in the comics to be less wimpish.
>
That the role in the comics has been rewritten is certainly true. That
was based on writer John Byrne's boyhood memories of watching (guess who?)
George Reeves' portrayal of Clark/Superman. Kinda hard to believe that
such a revision could be based on such a "WOODEN" actor, eh? <g>
But as far as the classic version of Clark as a timid contrast to
Superman, Christopher Reeve wins hands down
.
>On the Lois Lane side, it's a little closer call because they were all
>very good. But I think Teri Hatcher is probably the best now. Margot
>Kidder was good, too, as was Noel Neill (sp?) in the 50's series.
>
Have to agree here. Not a dud performance in the bunch, though you failed
to mention Phyllis Coates, who played a very no-nonsense Lois in the first
season of the 50's series. In that season, the show was written more or
less straight, as compared to the eventual kiddie-show writing of the
color episodes. (But, considering that the cast and crew cranked out two
shows a week during much of the production of that classic series, all
involved did a remarkable job - compare that to today's schedule of what,
nine days to produce one hour-long show?) Phyllis was easily the Lois for
that season, as Noel was for the Alyn serials and the balance of the
Reeves series.
Both Kidder and Hatcher managed to combine the classic Lois' balance
between reporter's toughness and girlish tenderness for her Man of Steel.
But I'd have to give Teri the edge over Margot, if only for the longer
time on-camera and the opinion here that Hatcher's role is (usually)
better written.
Richard K Bethell
Fox-Force 5 (wa...@sscl.uwo.ca) writes:
>>I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
>>Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
>>Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
>>What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
>>now, no physical violence)
>
> There is no contest on this one. No one comes close to Reeve's
> depiction of Clark/Supes. Not only could he actually act (sorry Dean fans);
Sorry, don't buy it. Aside from my general dislike for pre-crisis Superman
in general, what makes us think that Superman should be a good actor
whether Dean is or not? Clark in LNC is not slick, he's not polished. He's
really been doing this Superman thing by the seat of his pants and learns
as he goes along. For, example there is the humorous first season episode
when Superman changes in the washroom and ends up wrecking the stall.
After that, he wears the uniform under his clothes.
Dean very effectively conveys this Superman who's only real advantage over
the rest of us is the strength given to him by a yellow sun. Dean's
Superman learns from Human experience, not a shiny green crystal. Why
would Superman have a different personality? Does the yellow sun give him
special multiple personality powers? I'll answer that - it doesn't. There
are some things Clark deliberately tries to modify- his appearance, his
posture, for example. But let's face it, Kalel didn't get acting lessons
from Jorel in this continuity. Dean Cain's Clark shows a lot more
tenderness and feeling for Lois. One of the reasons I hated "Forget Me
Not" so much was because Dean has effectively portrayed Clark's pain at
recent events. I've been hurting with Dean's Clark for so long I can
barely bear to watch any more.
Just my $.02.
VARTOX
writes:
>I am going to withdraw one point I made which you challenged twice,
Ouch! When I read that, I went back for a second look at what I'd
written. It wasn't my intent to 'challenge' you per se as it was to
persuade you (the difference to my mind being a degree of harshness in the
former), but upon second look, your description was indeed the most apt.
My apologies for my tone; I generally prefer a friendlier tone, but easily
failed this time out.
And with that, I'll leave this thread to others now (and maybe take a
nap). ;)
Seraphis1
I want to remind you all that DJL set out to do a whole new version of
"S". And
one of the things that went was the wimp concept which in the early days
of the
comics was heavily influenced by the Scarlet Pimpernel. Even Zorro owes
everything to the Scarlet Pimpernel. But, these were well know classics
of their
time and most educated people knew the Scarlet Pimpernel and so writers
were
using familiar themes as keywords might be used by advertisers to fix in
your
mind their products.
This was the one thing that surprised hell out of me about the CK
character,
when I first saw this series. In Requiem for a Hero, CK climbs into the
ring with
that bionic boxer and I said wow this is going to be great. A CK who
doesn't try
to hide his strength behind a facade of wimpishness.
The other major difference is that CK is trying to fit into the world as
an
ordinary guy, while in the past "S" was only trying to find a way to keep
from
being discovered.
st...@radix.net
>I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
>Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
>Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
>What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
>now, no physical violence)
I really liked Reeves's portrayal of Clark Kent in the first movie,
but Clark became too much of a moron in the sequels. Sort of like how
Chrissy became more and more retarded in Three's Company.
What I really like about L&C is the focus on Clark, because that's who
he really is, and Dean Cain does an excellent job at it. As Clark
himself tells Lois in the Tempest episode, "Clark is who I am;
Superman is what I do."
It doesn't make sense to me for someone to grow up as Clark Kent,
become Superman in his adult life, and then spend the majority of his
waking hours posturing as some bumbling fool. It would be hard to
do--always putting on an act.
KalElFan
var...@aol.com (VARTOX) writes:
>There is no argument, of course, that the part of Superman did bring
>George Reeves pain, including typecasting to the point in which his role
>in From Here to Eternity was mostly left on the cutting room floor.
Never
>have I before heard the thought expressed that he was just going through
>the motions in any role. So I also would be very interested to hear the
>opinions of others...
>
>Mind you, I'm not trying to trash your opinion here, I'm just wondering
if
>you might not want to give the old show a second look. Any episode (and
>there are many) in which George lets loose with one of his laughs, and
>hearty ones they were, might very well persuade you that just maybe he
>wasn't going through the motions.
>
>(And not to nitpick, but in Gone With the Wind, George played Stuart
>Tarleton, one of Scarlett's twin suitors in the opening scene and the
>party at the Hamiltons. Frank Coughlin, Jr., who played Billy Batson in
>the serial version of Captain Marvel was the soldier who had his leg
>amputated.)
No doubt you're right on the GWTW point. I was very young when I saw
it and thought I remembered Reeves in a hospital bed because of his
leg. [At least I was right about him being in it!]
Your point about the effect the series, and perhaps even Reeves' acting,
had on future generations of Superman fans isn't one I'd dispute. I've
probably seen every episode two or three times at least, although it's
been years since I last saw it. I have very fond memories of the series,
and I certainly don't want to speak ill of the dead. But I guess the
accountant in me has this fetish about objectivity [wow, did I just
use accountant and fetish in the same sentence <g>]. Nostalgic
feelings for the series and the important part Reeves obviously played
in it are one thing. Praise for his acting talent, especially in that
series in comparison to others who have played Superman, is quite
another.
I am going to withdraw one point I made which you challenged twice,
i.e. that Reeves was simply going through the motions. That's
attributing motivation to him which I'm in no position to know. I also
mentioned in my last post that I thought he did a competent job, so
it isn't really his dedication as an actor that I'm questioning. What I
do stand by are my other adjectives: wooden, sullen, humorless, I'd
even add lifeless, as compared to others who have played the
role. You mentioned his hearty laughs. I may go back and see
them again someday, but as I read your post I remembered them
vividly. I guess I just don't remember them the same way. I
remember them as the competent hearty laugh of an actor who
was supposed to heartily laugh. He was very competent. I just
don't think he was a very good Clark Kent or Superman, *compared*
to the others. I still liked the series a lot, though.
Again, all IMHO. It would be interesting to hear what other people
think about the acting job of each of the four. An objective assessment
is always a difficult thing to ask of people, but sometimes you can
get there in a roundabout way. Assuming Superman retired for
twenty years and you could bring back any of the four actors in their
prime, who would you most like to see play the role 1st, 2nd, 3rd and
4th?
VARTOX
writes:
> But I found Reeves' portayal sullen, humorless and,
>yes, wooden. Even where the script called for humor, you
>got the sense that his heart just wasn't in it. He even had that
>guest appearance on I Love Lucy, and you got the impression
>that he was just going through the motions. (At least I got that
>impression. This is all MHO of course, and I'd be very interested
>to hear what other people think about Reeves' Superman.)
>
>
There is no argument, of course, that the part of Superman did bring
George Reeves pain, including typecasting to the point in which his role
in From Here to Eternity was mostly left on the cutting room floor. Never
have I before heard the thought expressed that he was just going through
the motions in any role. So I also would be very interested to hear the
opinions of others.
I would reiterate something you didn't address in my earlier post, that
being that George's performance made such an impression on the young John
Byrne that when Byrne had the challenge of revamping the Man of Steel, he
modeled "his" Clark Kent after George's portrayal. Through the years,
those producing the various comic books have liberally sprinkled tributes
to Reeves and that series among those pages, from references to "Bessolo
Boulevard" to the brown and gray costume worn by Matrix when she believed
herself to be Superman.
As a reader of various comics publications over the years (but primarily
Comics Buyers' Guide), I've seen interviews and letters from fans and
comics pros alike referring to that series. The vast majority, though
often admitting (as do I) that there was an overabundance of silliness in
the scripts, tended to refer to the show and its stars with a great deal
of affection.
Cj
>
>Carter Lupton (lupton@news-server) writes:
>>Dean Cain, who is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man.
>I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
>Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
>Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
>What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
>now, no physical violence)
>Keir.
My vote is for Dean Cain. Here's why:
While Chris Reeves did a great job in Superman 1, there was the
wimpish Clark Kent he had to portray. Now, that's not Reeves fault,
rather the Superman/Kent they wanted him to portray.
Dean Cain has a better job and does it well. He may not be as
towering as Reeves, nor have the chiseled face that Reeves has. But
what he does have is believability as Kent, your average All-American
male who happens to have extraordinary powers.
That, I believe, is the main difference. Cain can play an ordinary
guy. Reeves had to play two roles: Superman and a knit-wit, which
didn't go over very well. I mean, why be the Man of Steel and still
be a nerd?
Cain is the Man of Steel without being the Nerd. He's a nice,
quiet guy who every once in a while shows his vulnerability and his
anger. And he does it in such a way that makes most folks feel like it
is heartfelt and real. I don't recall ever feeling the degree of
emotion in Reeve's portrayal of either Superman or Kent.
My two cents!
CrackerJack :Guarding the Colonel's western flank!
Jennifer D. Polley
> Have to agree there. Cain does Clark justice, but his Supes is FLAT.
Oh good. I was going to say this before I got to reading all those comments
on the other actors who played him (all of whom, except Christopher Reeves, I
am too young to know about <G>). I think Dean does an absolutely wonderful
job with Clark, but he is starting to get just the teensiest bit on my nerves
with his Superman. (mind you, just a smidge, nothing more) I think it's
mostly the arm crossing bit. <G>
Jennifer
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Prayers are always answered. It's just that sometimes the
answer is 'no,' and sometimes the answer is 'not yet.' But
sometimes, the answer is 'yes.'
- author unknown
"The trouble with being in the rat race is that even if you win,
you're still a rat."
- Lily Tomlin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
William F. Finch
away by some big mysterious accident? I was going to watch before
watching the March 24 show. Thanks guys and gals ... Bill
Carter Lupton
: In article <4j41tr$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
: var...@aol.com (VARTOX) writes:
: >George "WOODEN"? Think you might have him confused with
: >more than one person who's ever played Batman. If you look at
: >the role of Superman being about power, and the ability to wield
: >it not only responsibly, but authoritatively, then George's is the
: >classic portrayal, followed closely by Kirk Alyn's serial work.
I agree that Reeves was not particularly good as Superman, but he played
a very competent CK; it's easy to see John Byrne remodelling his comics
CK on Reeves's portrayal. The unbelievable part was when CK had to
suddenly dash off; it didn't fit Reeves's strong portrayal of the
character. This is the same weakness that Dean Cain brings to the role.
You would think that after 3 years CK could come up with better
explanations of his sudden disappearances. Like Reeves, he is good as CK
but not a very effective Superman: Christopher Reeve was excellent in
both roles.
: The Lois Lanes I'd rank Hatcher, Kidder, Neill, Coates, although
: there isn't a lot separating the first three. I remember Coates and
: she was good, but wasn't around long enough to compete with
: the others.
I'm afraid I don't rank Noel Neill very high, at least from TV. She was
not bad in the serials, but her acting was definitely kiddie-grade in the
series. Perhaps it was the rushed schedule, but there seems little
conviction in her acting. I like Coates better, who is much more the
"tough" Lois of the early comics. I still think the modern comics Lois is
more mature than Teri: LL in the comics comes off as a woman while Teri
portrays a vulnerable girl hiding behind a tough facade.
TERRY HERRIN
K>twenty years and you could bring back any of the four actors in their
K>prime, who would you most like to see play the role 1st, 2nd, 3rd and
K>4th?
Christopher Reeve
Dean Caine
George Reeves
Kirk Alyn
Terry
---
ş OLXWin 1.00b ş Hand me that planet, will you? That's a good deity.
S.E. Morris
kale...@aol.com (KalElFan) writes:
>Slow news day, so KalElFan is reduced to wild speculation,
>fueled a bit by an AOL post that probably means nothing.
>But here it is and my response:
>
>
>"---WB asked:
>
>>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
>
>Anyway, if they did do it at some point I think the introduction
>of Supergirl -- the *real* one, Kara, Superman's cousin, and not
>this post-crisis Matrix, whoever she is -- would be a great idea.
>e.g., the intention to pull the plug on L&C next year, so they can
>jump to the Superman movie that's rumored to be released in
>1997, so they can leave us with just Supergirl on TV after only 4
>years of L&C. It wouldn't be that, would it? Because if that's what
>AND YOUR SUPERGIRL WHERE THE SUN NEVER SHINES!
Well I think it all depends upon how it was done. I'm in favour of
comicbook characters making occasional appearences in L+C, especially
pre-Crisis characters.
I suppose it wouldn't hurt to introduce a Supergirl character along the
lines of the pre-Crisis Kara, and then have her make *occasional* appearences
in some episodes thereafter. Here's a couple of ideas if they did go
ahead: She could live with Clark's parents (which would give them
something more interesting to do than sort out L+C's problems all the
time) and she could even start up a romance with Jimmy (which would
give him something more interesting to do than follow Perry round all
day!)
If L+C are married by the time the fourth season starts then a new romance
story arc (as an occasional secondary plot to L+C's antics) would be quite
nice, I suppose. It all depends upon how it was handled. And I'm sure if
she was attractive enough it wouldn't hurt the ratings :->
-FISH- ><>
Cheryl Moore
done os combine just the tiniet bit of nerd with the humor of the George
reeves clark. If you remember the Clark that George Reeves played always
teased a Lois and the were in competition for the story. he wasn't at all
a nerd and if they had been allow to be , well there is only one way to
say it , sexy in the 50's he would have been very much like Dean Cain's
version. I think they took the 50's version and made it 90's and let
Clark be the Kind of cool but caring guy he portrays. I just loved it whe
he says Superman is something I can do but Clark is who I am. Clark has a
temper and is vunerable and worried about the price of pearl jam tickets.
And when I watched Christopher Reeves version I had to think you don't
grow up handsome and work on a farm and go to college and travel and walk
around as a bumbling idiot.
anyway just my $.o2
cherie
Carter Lupton
: K>get there in a roundabout way. Assuming Superman retired for
: K>twenty years and you could bring back any of the four actors in their
: K>prime, who would you most like to see play the role 1st, 2nd, 3rd and
: K>4th?
: Christopher Reeve
: Dean Caine
: George Reeves
: Kirk Alyn
Everyone is ignoring the actors who played Superboy in the 1988-'92
syndicated series. I never saw the first season with John Haymes Newton,
but Gerard Christopher in seasons 2, 3 and 4 was fine, and I believe
still looks more mature than Dean Cain, which is why I don't distinguish
this Super"boy" from Superman.
KalElFan
writes:
>Everyone is ignoring the actors who played Superboy in the 1988-'92
>syndicated series. I never saw the first season with John Haymes Newton,
>but Gerard Christopher in seasons 2, 3 and 4 was fine, and I believe
>still looks more mature than Dean Cain, which is why I don't distinguish
>this Super"boy" from Superman.
You're right about the second guy being good. The first guy was okay,
too. I couldn't have told you their names, and I probably only saw 20
or so episodes. I'm astonished that you say it was on for four years. It
seemed a lot less than that.
Byte-Me
: >
: >"---WB asked:
: >>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
: >
: [snipped...]
: >Anyway, if they did do it at some point I think the introduction
: >of Supergirl -- the *real* one, Kara, Superman's cousin, and not
: >this post-crisis Matrix, whoever she is -- would be a great idea.
: <snipped>
: Well I think it all depends upon how it was done. I'm in favour of
: comicbook characters making occasional appearences in L+C, especially
: pre-Crisis characters.
:
: <snipped>
: I suppose it wouldn't hurt to introduce a Supergirl character along the
: lines of the pre-Crisis Kara, and then have her make *occasional* appearences
I think a pre Crisis ANYTHING (Supergirl included) would be a bad idea.
Right now, the TV show and the Comic are on the same track and in some
form or another things from the post Crisis comics find their way into the
show. (ex... Bizzaro / Amnesia / proposals / CLONES!)
As far as I'm concerned, May (Matrix) IS Supergirl just like CLARK (and not
Kal-El) is Superman. Also I wouldn't Rule out a return of Kara in the
comic's near future. You see, In last year's Superman/Aliens Crossover
book, Clark found himself on a planet with a red sun, fighting those slimey
lobsters from everyone's favorite movie franchise. His only help... A
young girl/woman by the name of ...Kara who lived in a place called ARGO
CITY and spoke fluent Kryptoniese. Unfortunately it was revealed that she
was not Kryptonian but her planet was visited by Kryptonians (at least
that's what she believes happened). At the end of that series Clark
tries to take her back to earth with him but they get separated and
Clark watches her "die" in battle with the Aliens. At the very end of
the book however we see a lone escape pod travelling through space with
Kara in the seat looking for the 3rd rock from the Milky Way's Sun.
KalElFan
(Byte-Me) writes:
>I think a pre Crisis ANYTHING (Supergirl included) would be a bad
>idea...
>...As far as I'm concerned, May (Matrix) IS Supergirl just like CLARK
>(and not Kal-El) is Superman...
Three points:
1. It's been pointed out many times now that the comics don't
necessarily follow what happens in the TV series or movies. They
never have, and they don't need to. The number of people who
prefer or remember details of the pre-crisis comics (like me) or
the post-crisis comics (like you) is only a small percentage of
the total population. The number who actually care enough that
such details will affect whether they do or don't watch the TV
series or movie is as close to zero as you can get. I'm not in
that group. I'll keep watching, even if they make the wrong
decision ;) <g>, and bring in Matrix as Supergirl. And I doubt
you or anyone else would leave if they did it the other way
around.
2. In the end, the decision on anything is probably made on what
works best on the small or big screens. Superman might meet up
with slimy alien whatevers on planet wherever in the comics, but
I doubt very much that would fit into what we've come to know as
Lois & Clark. Changes often have to be made in the villains as
well. The reason I think the pre-crisis Supergirl makes sense is
because she was Superman's cousin, had the same powers, and
more of the total audience is vaguely aware of her than they would
be of Matrix. They'd be able to better relate to such a character and
accept her appearance in Lois & Clark as a jumping-off point to her
own new series. [We're told that none of this is going to happen in
this season's last two eps, but maybe they're just playing semantics
with us when they say "Supergirl" won't appear. Maybe a girl who
fits the description appears, but like Clark won't get "christened"
Supergirl until sometime in the future when they decide to go to
her own series. Maybe they'll be priming us now for the spin-off
sometime later.]
3. Finally, the most important point is that you never really need
to make choices in fantasy. You can pretty much have your cake
and eat it too. Just have the replicator make another one, or invent
some mechanism that allows you to do it. When you say "a pre
Crisis ANYTHING... would be a bad idea" and "CLARK (and not
Kal-El) is Superman" I think you're missing the point and placing
unwise and unnecessary restrictions on the whole franchise.
Most of what Superman is and always will be is based on his pre-
crisis history. The crisis changes, whether you think they were
good or bad, couldn't possibly have been intended to cut him off
from all of that history and folklore. If you're sitting down today
making plans for the TV series, movie, or the franchise as a whole,
you decide what would work best, what you need, what pieces of
it all you'd like to have, and then you creatively execute it so you
get there in a way your audience finds acceptable. Reconciling
things between pre- and post-crisis, or the comics and the live-
action portrayal, isn't that difficult for creative people to do.
Gail Christison
In article <11...@gold.win-uk.net>,
ke...@gold.win-uk.net (Keir) wrote:
> Carter Lupton (lupton@news-server) writes:
> >Dean Cain, who is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man.
> I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
> Although I like Christoper Reeves, the bumbling 'movie-style' Clark
> Kent always kinda got on my nerves.
> What do y'all think? Who is the best Superman? (let's all be nice
> now, no physical violence)
That's a definite Dean.(Anyway Dean looks better in tights than Chris does)
Besides Dean has that charming country Clark that always reaches the
bottom of your heart. Well, admit it, ya gotta love this guy. I do :)
See yas,
Kasey
ga...@mpx.com.au
... This reply was foil wrapped for maximum freshness
Thad Bissett
: Everyone is ignoring the actors who played Superboy in the 1988-'92
: syndicated series. I never saw the first season with John Haymes Newton,
: but Gerard Christopher in seasons 2, 3 and 4 was fine, and I believe
: still looks more mature than Dean Cain, which is why I don't distinguish
: this Super"boy" from Superman.
I think the real problem with Superboy was that, first, it
completely ignored the Superman comics series (as far as I know). I'm
not going to bash it hard, because I watched it for the whole time it was
on (I still think that Sherman Howard was a terrific Lex Luthor), but it
just wasn't a GOOD Superman show. It lacked any real depth, and was
never had a particularly well-executed storyline. Also, Gerard
Christopher (isn't that odd? We've got George REEVES, Christopher REEVE,
and Gerard CHRISTOPHER) was picked a little TOO much because he was a
good heartthrob. Granted, so is Dean Cain, but Dean can act. When I
watch L&C, I see a guy who is relatively normal, except that he just
happens to be strong enough to pick up a bus with one hand, and shoot
lasers out of his eyes. The point is, he's a sympathetic character. You
watch his reactions to various situations, and you feel bad for him when
something bad happens to him. You laugh when he laughs. You cheer when
Lois tells Superman to tell Clark that she loves him, if she doesn't
survive. It's one of the only shows I know of where I really do count
the days 'til the next episode (I watch maybe three shows in the week).
I did like Christopher Reeve in his portrayal, but his Clark was always
aa little too much of a nerd for me. When he was saying things like
"swell," he just didn't feel like a Clark that you could believe. Reeve
played Supes/Kent as two extremes, as if you gave a nerd huge powers and
told him to come up with a secret identity in which to use them. Cain's
Clark Kent is a normal guy...not a dweeb, and not a macho man (I don't
think I could stand it if Clark suddenly began acting like a "cool
dude"), just a guy, albeit a little better looking than most average
guys. While he does look a little GQ, for the most part, he's a very
believable character.
Concerning Lois Lane, Teri Hatcher is definitely the best I've
ever seen. Margot Kidder was a little too dirty and gross-looking for a
decent Lois Lane. I couldn't believe that Clark Kent would fall for this
woman. Teri Hatcher is both beautiful and very tough in the way she
portrays Lois, but with a soft inner core that is still very girlish and
womanly.
Kal El Jr
Jim Smith <jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
>Uh, sorry, cloning Lois was too _bizarre_ for the comics. The show gets
>full credit for that boner.
>
>For your daily requirement of clones, I'd go see Spider-Man...er...Men...
>
>Jim Smith
Sorry, boyo, but Superman comics have had clones for a LONG time. The
current Superboy and his best friend, Dubbilex, are genetically enhanced
clones from the Cadmus Project. Matrix(Supergirl) is basically a
protomatter clone of Lana Lang from another dimension. The current
Guardian and Newsboy Legion are all clones of the originals. Lex Luthor
gained radiation poisoning from a Kryptonite ring he used to wear, staged
his own death, and used a modification of the cloning process to grow
himself a new, better body around his brain. He then returned as his
"son", Lex Luthor II. He, along with all the clones in the Underworld,
became deathly ill during the clone plague. He, Superboy, Dubbilex, the
Guardian, and the Newsboys were the only ones to survive, but Lex was left
as a vegetable. He managed to get back his health througha deal with the
devil. All in all, Superman comics have had many more clones than the
Spider-Man comics (I know exactly what you're talking about, too) but they
have toned down considerably.
Brian "Kal El Jr" Wilson
"Love is the most powerful force in the entire universe. If you hold it
in your heart, you can achieve the impossible. And if you have enough
loved ones, then you have an unbeatable army that can overcome all
obstacles." -Myself
the AMAZING Sharlene
>>Uh, sorry, cloning Lois was too _bizarre_ for the comics.
>>For your daily requirement of clones, I'd go see Spider-Man...er...Men...
>Sorry, boyo, but Superman comics have had clones for a LONG time.
But did they clone *Lois*?
>Matrix(Supergirl) is basically a protomatter clone of Lana Lang from
>another dimension.
I didn't know she was Lana! How did alt.lana get hooked up with the
alt.luthor in the first place?
>[Lex] managed to get back his health througha deal with the devil.
What was the deal?
If this is getting too far off-topic, could someone email me with the
summaries? (IMHO it's a justifiable thread, particularly during reruns.)
- Meta
Mark Jurisevic
>
> KalElFan (kale...@aol.com) wrote:
>
> "the failed Superboy syndicated series"
>
> Failed? 4 full seasons and 100 episodes? Compare to L&C who will need a
> 5th season to chalk up as many eps.
> The quality of this show is also not that bad. Stacy Haiduk as Lana Lang
> was every bit as scrumptious as Teri's Lois, and Gerard Christopher, who
> played CK/Supes did, I think, a better interpretation than Dean Cain, who
> is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man. Also, there were great
> villains from the comics, not just Lex but Bizarro, Metallo and Mxyzptlk.
I have to agree wholehearteldly here. Dean Cain makes a good Clark Kent but I
think he is not as good as Superman, in both personality and appearance.
Don't get me wrong I still think he is Ok. Terri Hatcher as Lois is amazing.
She is so damn gorgeous that she is almost incomparable. She is also bubbly
and has that element of fire in her personality which makes her compelling.
In comparison Stacy Hadiuk was as good as Terri. If anyone has seen the
Superboy episode where she gets turned into a Vampire you would know what I
mean. She was seductive and looked amazing in that black evening dress.
Gerard Christopher in my opinion was the best Superman(boy) since Christopher
Reeve (a real life Superman bye the way). Gerard had the perfect look and
physique. The only thing he lacked was the stature that the classic Superman
has. Reeves Superman was 6'4'', Dean Cain is about 5'11'' or 6 foot and the
Superman in the comic books is supposedly 6'2''. If Gerard Christopher had
the height he would make the perfect Superman for the movies. Furthermore
Stacy and Gerard had an onscreen chemistry that Deab (sorry Dean) and Terri
can't quite match. If you have any doubts check out some of the Superboy
episodes particularly the one where Superboy decides to hang up his cape
because he thinks he inadvertantly killed someone and is confronted by Lana
Lang who tries to convince him otherwise. This episode also had some nice
scenes with Ma and Pa Kent.
In terms of stories I think Superboy stories were very good. Some were
excellent in fact. The time travel, and especially alternate reality episodes
where there were 3 Superboy's converging in the one time zone stand out, as
well as the Bizarro episodes. It's a pity they were not hour long episodes
with the budget of Lois and Clark since they were truer to the comic books
with decent villains. Unfortunately Australia has yet to see the 4th season
of Superboy and we probably never will.
Anyway those are my opinions.
Does anyone share the same views of the Superboy tv series.
Mark
Colonel X
>
(notes on "Superboy" snipped...)
>In terms of stories I think Superboy stories were very good. Some were
>excellent in fact. The time travel, and especially alternate reality episodes
>where there were 3 Superboy's converging in the one time zone stand out, as
>well as the Bizarro episodes. It's a pity they were not hour long episodes
>with the budget of Lois and Clark since they were truer to the comic books
>with decent villains. Unfortunately Australia has yet to see the 4th season
>of Superboy and we probably never will.
That's a real shame. In my book, "Superboy" was a piece of garbage until
the 4th season. I think I enjoyed about 2 of the first 75-ish episodes
(though to be fair I probably suffered through only 40 or so) but most
all of the last season is really good. Gerard Christopher seems to have
a better idea of how the character should act than most of the original
producers (like Fred "Hack" Freiberger) and by the last season he was
an e-p who had a damn good amount of power over the storylines.
You mentioned (in a bit I snipped) enjoying Stacy Haiduk's turn as a
vampire. She's playing one again in a new Fox series called "Kindred:
The Embraced" that begins tonight, coincidentally enough.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
On assignment in Athens, Georgia,
Colonel X.
Expect the unexpected.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
S.E. Morris
>: >
>: >"---WB asked:
>: >
>: >>>Wouldn't it be cool if Supergirl did show up on L&C?
>: >
>: [snipped...]
>: >Anyway, if they did do it at some point I think the introduction
>: >of Supergirl -- the *real* one, Kara, Superman's cousin, and not
>: >this post-crisis Matrix, whoever she is -- would be a great idea.
>
>: <snipped>
>: Well I think it all depends upon how it was done. I'm in favour of
>: comicbook characters making occasional appearences in L+C, especially
>: pre-Crisis characters.
>:
>
>: <snipped>
>: I suppose it wouldn't hurt to introduce a Supergirl character along the
>: lines of the pre-Crisis Kara, and then have her make *occasional* appearences
>
>
>I think a pre Crisis ANYTHING (Supergirl included) would be a bad idea.
>Right now, the TV show and the Comic are on the same track and in some
>form or another things from the post Crisis comics find their way into the
>show. (ex... Bizzaro / Amnesia / proposals / CLONES!)
I understand your feelings on this issue - but it's usually the case
that when tv shows (or indeed films) use characters/ideas from DC books they
prefer to use the 'classic' versions as these are most recognisable by the
general public. For 'classic' you can damb near substitute 'pre-Crisis'
because most of the general public are unfamiliar with the changes which came
about as a result of Crisis. So I am afraid it's maybe a little unlikely
that any characters will appear in their post-Crisis form.
Having said that, I think that most people are unfamiliar with the
Supergirl character anyway (although they *will* have heard the name)
so I suspect it won't make any difference in this particular case.
Personally I prefer pre-Crisis characters as I see the tv/movie versions
as separate to the comicbooks anyway and certainly outside the comicbook
continuity. But I can understand why some people may not like this! :->
-FISH- ><>
Gail Christison
> Carter Lupton (lupton@news-server) writes:
> >Dean Cain, who is unbelievably 2-dimensional as the big S-man.
> I have to say I really, really like Dean Cain as Supes.
Andrew Beard Wright
>
> Kal El Jr <kal...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Jim Smith <jasm...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
>
> >>Uh, sorry, cloning Lois was too _bizarre_ for the comics.
> >>For your daily requirement of clones, I'd go see Spider-Man...er...Men...
>
> alt.luthor in the first place?
>
Trapper, so that there would be a Superboy to inspire the Legion of
Superheroes. alt.luthor was one of the good guys who tried to combat some
Kryptonian criminals who got loose from the Phantom Zone subsequent to the
death of Superboy. alt.lana was his girlfriend. When the Kryptonians devastated
the alt.earth and killed/mortally wounded alt.lana, alt.lex regrew her as a
proto-clone and sent her to earth (as a shape shifting Supergirl) to enlist
Superman's aid in combatting the Kryptocriminals. To no avail, the alt.earth
was destroyed, and alt.lana came back to earth with Supes.
And most of the people on this list were complaining about absurd plots????
Andrew
---
Alas for the South, her works have grown fewer. She was never much taken
with Literature. - J. Gordon Coogler
KalElFan
<bi...@flinders.edu.au> writes:
>Does anyone share the same views of the Superboy tv series.
>
>Mark
There seems to be at least one other person that you quoted. <g>
I'm glad for anyone who liked the series, and maybe it did limp
through 4 years of syndication, although judging by the posts
there must have been a lot of markets that it didn't make it through
that long. I also liked the actors, but that doesn't a series make.
There were a few decent stories like the vampire one. But there
were also ones that were *incredibly* bad. (Don't ask me to tell
you which ones. I've purged them from my brain.)
I don't think even the series' supporters really believe it was a
success.
BTW, how did this discussion end up in the "Supergirl?" thread?
Maybe that shape-shifting Matrix is the one they'll eventually
be introducing in L&C, but not the way we think. <g>
amnun iskhakov
amnun iskhakov
Lucy Openshaw
<kale...@aol.com> writes
> Plus, Reeve
>>fits the physical description of Supes; he's got the chiseled facial
>>features, and more importantly he's a towering 6'4" (which, I believe,
>>is the exact height Superman is supposed to be). Cain just doesn't
>>deliver in this department either (he'd be lucky to clear 6 feet).
>>
Maybe so, but let's face it, Dean Cain is far mofe good-looking than
Christopher Reeves!
--
Bill Openshaw
Carol Haasdyk
I agree with you there, Bill! Is Dean really that short, though? I
thought he would be about 6'3" or something like that.
Carol
om...@pilot.msu.edu
Dean Is 6'0".....just to clear that up :)
-Jacqueline
KalElFan
No big deal, but I just wanted to point out that I never said any
of what's shown in this dog's breakfast, despite the fact that
my name got buried in it. I never got involved in this part of the
discussion, and I don't want to get involved, because I have my
hands full elsewhere thank you very much.
Besides, being 6'1" myself, I'd just end up taking a middle
position on the issue. And that's usually when I'm at my most
boring.
Karen Fung
>I agree with you there, Bill! Is Dean really that short, though? I
>thought he would be about 6'3" or something like that.
Nope, he's 6" flat. Ever see him standing beside Gabrielle Reece? It
proves it.
Karen Fung, Talking Extraordinaire
gf...@unix.dsoe.com
Canada
Why LC:TNAoS?--"Because it's good TV! It's fun for the
whole family!"
Carter Lupton
: Maybe so, but let's face it, Dean Cain is far mofe good-looking than
: Christopher Reeves!
Not to burst a bubble here, but this is awfully subjective. I think Reeve
is much better looking than Cain. And Cain, while tolerably attractive as
Kent, is downright homely as Superman with his hair slicked back.
blankh
I have to go with Lucky on this one, Carter. I think Dean is FAR more
better looking. It's probably because we're girls, and have more of an
inclination to choose the 90's one, while neither really matters to
you personally. But I'm sure you would choose Teri over Margot any day
wouldn't you?! =)
Sincerely,
Gina Blank =)