Lois and Clarks mumbles? No. Fumbles.
Colonel X
There were exactly three really, really good things in tonight's episode:
S
P
O
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L
E
R
S
P
A
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E
The Civil Air Defense posters in the fallout shleter...a very nice touch of
realism from the set design people.
"Or that. You can do that."... One of the best lines in the series.
The climax with the arrest of Tempus and the chess metaphors. ... This was
very nicely done.
On the other hand, there were even more irritations in this hour than I
could have dreamed possible:
"He's gone! He's (sob!) gone!" ... We heard this in BGDF and it was
annoying then. So the first reaction from this supposedly strong woman is
to burst into tears again. Lois should not have been anywhere near the end
of her tether...yet, and this constant blubbering in the cat's teleplays is
very unwelcome. Fight first, then break down.
Dragon killed his parents when he was 3. ... Oh, come on!
Dragon holding his gun sideways. ... Actually, I can't blame this one on
the cats at all, and it's just a personal annoyance, but I really wouldn't
mind slapping that runt Tarantino something fierce for popularizing this
ridiculous pose.
Why isn't anything happening in Washington? ... Shifting the focus of this
world crisis out of Metropolis would have given the show a broader view.
"You are pocket lint...in the pockets of lawyers!" ... Is that the best
Lois could do? Oh, wait, under the cats, she's a blubbering nut with no
personal strength. Thania St. John may have hated the character, but at
least she respected her strength from time to time.
"Goodness" vs. "Mayhem, chaos, evil, etc." ... These forces haven't been so
"humanized" and discussed since Maxwell Smart kept the world safe for
niceness.
Twinkies, Cup cakes, Ding Dongs and wine? ... Again, not necessarily the
cat's fault, or even a story deficiency, but wowza, that's gross.
Clark acted just like Clark. ... Part of this was an annoyance in "T, A?"
but it was exacerbated here. He comes from an alternate Earth where
Charlton Heston is president, but dresses just like our Clark, wears his
hair like him and speaks with the same vocal inflection. And after a year
(we assume) of living with a public identity, that character has not
changed one iota since we last saw him. I'm sorry, but that's a major
credibility issue. And now we're expected to believe that he's been
carrying a torch for an otherdimensional doppelganger ever since? Dean Cain
was majorly at fault here. He was so good in "Vatman" of making his other
self entirely distinctive, but there was none of that here. He didn't even
try, and the script wasn't helping. On that note:
So what's the problem? ... Another error in making "that" Clark so much
like "our" Clark...their morals were identical! If they *had* to go the
fanboy route and show us more of sad ole other Clark's story, why not take
the opportunity to show us how that Clark's life was different without
Lois? Obviously, Lois's effect on "our" Clark is nil, no matter how often
he tells us otherwise, because without her, or his folks, "that" Clark
evolved into the same fella. What if "that" Clark had turned into a man who
did not care who he hurt with his powers? What if something happened over
the past year to persuade him to burn the cape and live in Tibet? What if
he saw no qualms in just hurling Tempus into the sun to get rid of the
problem? Such a moral debate would have made much better viewing than all
that "Oh, we have such chemistry" shit, which was just bad teevee...
That dopey song and memories of happier times in act 3. ... Again, bad
teevee. Awful visuals and woeful execution, and again, Lois being weak. A
major problem I had with BGDF (the show's darkest hour) was the whole tone
of hopelessness, of "woe is us, we're being separated," instead of an
upbeat cliffhanger of Superman going proudly to save New Krypton. Much the
same here. Now, I can understand a degree of anxiety over Clark vanishing,
probably a lot of it. But an occasional "Lord, I hope Clark's OK" would
have been far preferable. Lois should have thought that Clark would be back
anytime, hell, he's Superman. Wells should have confided the potentially
hopeless situation to the Kents alone.
Jonathan Kent's amazing knowledge of city infrastructure. ... How the
*hell* did he know about the construction of fallout shelters 40 years ago
in a city he didn't live?
Unless they could find the exact second, they couldn't find him. Problem?
... Wells has a *time machine*. All he had to do was synchronize his watch
precisely, materialize himself outside the hotel, park in the alley, wait
for a big flash of light in an upper story window, check his watch and hit
the road. Does it really surprise me that, given a big "sci-fi" concept
like this, the cats would fall on their ass?
This could have been something big. Instead, the cats went for the lowest
common denominator, played up to the romance fanboys with a sweet little
sequel to the story of poor, lovestruck Clark, made no changes to him
whatsoever, refused to admit that "that" Lois was emphatically dead,
emphasized romance instead of common sense, made Lois weaker than ever and,
in total, provided the worst hour of "L&C" this season.
What a waste. Absolutely typical. Someone fire these cats.
--
On assignment in Athens GA,
Colonel X.
Please note my new address: "Colo...@rocketmail.com"
Xpect the UnXpected on my web page:
"http://www.negia.net/~dgoggans/cx.html"
KalElFan
Well, Colonel, I thought I'd tack my "Lois and Clarks" review
onto yours just to provide some balance, because I thought it
was one of the best -- heck, it was the best -- the cats have
ever done.
I thought the dialogue was spectacular, lots of great, great lines
and moments. You mentioned "Or that... you could do that,"
which I agree was great. The one you didn't like: "You're
pocket lint... in the pockets of lawyers" I liked a lot. Then
we had HG Wells saying "I refuse to believe that something so
diabolical can be so... easy" and Tempus deadpanning: "Well,
that's the Protestant in you." IMO *that* may be the funniest
line in the series (it may not read like the funniest, but the
way those two delivered it made it the funniest). Tempus
with the banana and then the bolo bat while the missiles
were being launched was hilarious.
Then you had the contrast of the way Lois and Alternate
Clark was handled. I was afraid they were going to screw
this up somehow, especially at the break when they were
about to kiss. But I loved the way they came back and
handled it right after the break. I thought Teri and Dean
were both great. Unlike you, I loved the dream montage
and the song, I thought it fit very well in this episode, and
Lois's tears, etc., IMO, weren't *anywhere* near the BGDF
pain-fest we saw in the last 15 minutes. I even liked the
way they left the fate of Alternate Lois up in the air... it's
upbeat enough that you can assume whatever you want,
but not so definitive that we can't look forward to / hope
for yet another sequel. And, unlike last week when I felt
some trepidation going into this episode, I am looking
forward and hoping for more Tempus. Lane Davies was
outstanding as usual. He and the other actors were as
much responsible for making all that very good material come
across as well as it did, as the writers were. It probably
wouldn't have worked with lessor actors.
The criticism of B&E has been that they can't handle the
fantasy elements, but I thought the handling of the time
window was imaginitive, the very brief technobabble
sounded persuasive, and I again liked the way it was
portrayed in the special effects. Their strength is clearly
in the relationship writing, the dialogue, the funny moments,
etc., but I think they got everything just right here. I was
particularly pleased that we didn't get anything like the
Clark-at-the-motel-door-with-the-silly-cop, or like we saw
a few times in the season premiere. Lois & Clark were
played straight throughout, and I was ROTFLMAO at
Tempus, who was also a strong villain at various times
throughout the episode. That's the way it should be. The
two main characters get played straight, and the situations
they find themselves in sometimes, the supporting players,
and especially the strong villains, provide most of the humor.
I also liked the fact that they talked about the Alternate
Universe in the singular... it was clear that they didn't open
up an infinite universes can of worms.
Now, I guess I'll repeat the Andrus nitpick on behalf of those
who really care, i.e. if Tempus blew up the world then he
would have to be erased for sure (unless he has that Temporal
Insulator... we really need that introduced next appearance).
But it's no big deal, and this episode is right up there with
Brutal Youth and the Mxyzptlk one, in fact it may well be
the best of the season.
Any downside? Just that it's unfortunate the 10+ million
who've left can't be seeing episodes like this, because I
think it's *exactly* the kind of episode they would have
wanted to see after a *real* wedding last year. If the series
were riding high in the ratings right now, a good episode like
this would have a lot more people buzzing about it, standing
around the water cooler discussing their favorite moments
or lines, etc... it would reinforce ratings success if the show
were experiencing ratings success right now.
As it is, the remaining fans will rate this episode highly, I think,
but many of them seem to be interested in Dean taking off his
shirt, or lines like "Make love to me Clark," and so they may
not rate it as highly as last week's episode. But I think B&E
aced this one nevertheless.
And hire Lane Davies (and Hamilton Camp) to three or
four more appearances in this series, immediately.
Brandon Fisher
> Unless they could find the exact second, they couldn't find him. Problem?
> ... Wells has a *time machine*. All he had to do was synchronize his
watch
> precisely, materialize himself outside the hotel, park in the alley, wait
> for a big flash of light in an upper story window, check his watch and
hit
> the road. Does it really surprise me that, given a big "sci-fi" concept
> like this, the cats would fall on their ass?
Or maybe they could answer the question that was on my mind the entire hour
-
Why would HG Wells travel back to THAT point in time? How about going back
BEFORE Superman got stuck in that window and tell him to stay away from it?
Wouldn't that have prevented him from even disappearing in the first
place?
And why was the alternate Clark so willing to come and protect this Earth
and leave crime to run rampant on his?
Oh well. I loved part one and almost every other episode of the show. I
can forgive this episode.
klair El
Colonel X <Colo...@rocketmail.com> wrote in article
<01bc2cfc$95b55140$5b00...@negia.net.negia.net>...
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
>
>
> S
>
> P
>
> A
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> C
>
> E
> was majorly at fault here. He was so good in "Vatman" of making his other
> self entirely distinctive, but there was none of that here. He didn't
even
> try, and the script wasn't helping.
Not that I'm a SWOCK or anything <much>, but I think blaming Dean for
Alternate Clark is like shooting everything in sight rather than aiming for
your target.
In "Vatman" the Vatman himself was childish. Dean was able to make a real
distinction in the character, because he was written as an entirely
different type of person. Not so Alternate Clark.
Although you make some good points about how different an Alternate Clark
could be, the fact is that he is written to be _almost_ identical to Clark.
You made some interesting points about a very different type of plot, but
in this one, Dean Cain has no choice but to play the character as different
in only subtle ways.
IMHO, Dean gets a lot of unfair criticism for playing his characters so
well. Consider that the regular Clark character has the tension of
repression because he can not reveal his Super side. Superman is repressed
because he can not reveal his vulnerabilities. Alternate Clark is written
as repressed because he never found the love from without, encouraging him
to blossom.
With all this subdued business, it's a wonder that Dean can do anything
with the characters at all. That he does, speaks very highly for his
acting abilities.
Can you tell that like KalElFAn, I loved this episode, despite it's
problems? That I would also like to see a follow on adventure for finding
Alternate Lois?
You see, when H. G. Wells says to Tempus: "You're a fiend beyond
comprehension!" and Tempus answers: "And a good dancer."
klair El asks: "May I have this Tango, Tempus?"
--
klair El
Edit Your Own Episode L & C Fanfic( with Tempus)
http://www.mindspring.com/~hess2/
moulds clinton
KalElFan <kale...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Any downside? Just that it's unfortunate the 10+ million
> who've left can't be seeing episodes like this, because I
> think it's *exactly* the kind of episode they would have
> wanted to see after a *real* wedding last year.
I agree completely, the show has really turned around.
Well what I am going to do is lend out these last two
episodes (have them on tape) to my friends who DID stop
watching. Hey, if every FOLC out there does the same
maybe interest in the show will return. I miss those
water cooler discussions. :)
--
Clint Moulds
Millersville, MD
Colonel X
Brandon Fisher <bran...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<01bc2d69$ea5e5d00$4544...@crc3.cocentric.net>...
> And why was the alternate Clark so willing to come and protect this Earth
> and leave crime to run rampant on his?
Now this one does make sense, at least by the brain-dead logic that
surrounds alternate ("that") Clark's (lack of) character development. The
man's been carrying a torch for Lois ever since he met her! HG Wells shows
up and says, "Hey, Lois needs your help in her parallel dimension! Wanna
see her again?"
Of course he'd go with just a little prodding...
(I can forgive it too. Jeffrey Vlaming's writing the next episode, and he's
a good writer. Brad Kern's doing #17 and he's pretty good, and Grant
Rosenberg's doing #18, and he's more successful than not these days, so the
next three episodes should be far better than this one.)
Jon McInnis
On 10 Mar 1997, Colonel X wrote:
> "Or that. You can do that."... One of the best lines in the series.
I have to agree. It's about time a man with superhuman stregth used it in
that way. When he zapped the Subliminator, I was disappointed but when
Superman reaches into a computer and rips out the motherboard - Great
Stuff!
> The climax with the arrest of Tempus and the chess metaphors. ... This was
> very nicely done.
I thought that scene was the most predictable but diff'rent strokes...
> "You are pocket lint...in the pockets of lawyers!" ... Is that the best
> Lois could do?
I think the point of that line was to show Lois's complete frustration.
She is not the best when it comes to trading insults but I like a little
lawyer-bashing now and again
> That dopey song and memories of happier times in act 3. ... Again, bad
> teevee.
I couldn't help but reminded of the similar scene in T,A? I don't know who
wrote that one or if the parallel was intentional but it gave a little
continuity between the a-Clark eps.
> Now, I can understand a degree of anxiety over Clark vanishing,
> probably a lot of it. But an occasional "Lord, I hope Clark's OK" would
> have been far preferable. Lois should have thought that Clark would be back
> anytime, hell, he's Superman.
Come on Colonel. Soften that heart. She just learned that the man she
loves and is married to has been banished to eternity. Give her a little
bit of leeway for grieving.
Next, your solution of going back to the time it happened was good. This
is the impression I was left with at the end. That HG would go back to
before Lois was lost and...you know the rest.
Then you called it:
> the worst hour of "L&C" this season. What a waste. Absolutely typical.
> Someone fire these cats.
I couldn't disagree more. I loved it. You have had a great number of
wonderful fantasy episodes. I know you don't like the SoapOperaMan aspect
of the show but you have to try to please all of the fans. I found it a
little mushy at times too but I can forgive that simply for some of the
great lines they gave Davies.
Query: Who, in fact, told ERL&BB that they could write? I don't know how
they do as ExecProds but is this a common thing in television? I thought
that shows had writing teams for the simple reason that they could write.
No need to involve producers in this aspect
CYa,
JON.
This newsgroup is getting despressing.
Jenel
Colonel X wrote:
> "You are pocket lint...in the pockets of lawyers!" ... Is that the best
> Lois could do? Oh, wait, under the cats, she's a blubbering nut with no
> personal strength. Thania St. John may have hated the character, but at
> least she respected her strength from time to time.
that line! It's one of the best lawyer slams since Malcolm Ford (Harrison
Ford's son) said about his father's profession, "Sometimes he plays a
good guy and sometimes he plays a lawyer."
Besides there's actually an iota of creativity in it.
-Jen
Colonel X
klair El <he...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<01bc2d87$6d065e20$5100a8c0@hobbes>...
> In "Vatman" the Vatman himself was childish. Dean was able to make a
real
> distinction in the character, because he was written as an entirely
> different type of person. Not so Alternate Clark.
>
> Although you make some good points about how different an Alternate Clark
> could be, the fact is that he is written to be _almost_ identical to
Clark.
> You made some interesting points about a very different type of plot,
but
> in this one, Dean Cain has no choice but to play the character as
different
> in only subtle ways.
You're right in that this is a major problem in the development of "that"
Clark, and the cats failed completely in convincing me he was a separate
character. However, there were so many things that Dean could have done
himself to make the characters different. He didn't have to speak with the
same inflection and quiet urgency that he adopts during every
heart-to-heart with Lois. He didn't have to come to the door with his
shoulders slightly hunched, looking all the world like he was showing up at
his prom date's house and was ready to meet her folks! He could have
deepened his voice, and spoken with confidence. On his world, "Clark" no
longer exists. He's Superman (or at least, Flying Clark) and has no need
for this other identity and its fumbles.
On the screenwriting side of things, there were so many little things the
cats could have written in to distinguish the two. Instead of that woefully
sappy clip sequence, they could have given screen time to Lois convincing
"that" Clark to grease his hair down when he goes out (it makes sense to
consider that on Other-earth, "that" Clark has no need to do so). They
could have scripted him as carrying himself with more confidence.
The meeting with the Kents was a major failure. Why in the world was "that"
Clark so obsessed with a woman he'd known for, what, 3 days? He spent many
years in the company of his parents and in this world, they were alive? He
should have jumped. This, for him, should have been a moment of unbridled
and amazing happiness. Put yourself in his shoes, everyone. Wouldn't this
have been the greatest, most wonderful moment in the universe, to find that
your late parents were still alive?
> IMHO, Dean gets a lot of unfair criticism for playing his characters so
> well. Consider that the regular Clark character has the tension of
> repression because he can not reveal his Super side. Superman is
repressed
> because he can not reveal his vulnerabilities. Alternate Clark is
written
> as repressed because he never found the love from without, encouraging
him
> to blossom.
Eugenie and Brad made the fatal error of deciding that, without Lois and
his folks, "that" Clark is automatically a sad, tragic figure. That's
nonsense. Why couldn't "that" Clark have found someone else, perhaps a
different "soul mate" for his universe? Why couldn't he have found some
other, major source of happiness and treated Lois like an old high school
flame instead of the one who got away, who he's carried a torch for ever
since.
"That" Clark has no character. Eugenie and Brad didn't try for crap, and
Dean didn't attempt to enliven that lack of character to realistic levels.
Brad Ferguson
In article <19970310131...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
kale...@aol.com (KalElFan) wrote:
> As it is, the remaining fans will rate this episode highly, I think,
> but many of them seem to be interested in Dean taking off his
> shirt, or lines like "Make love to me Clark," and so they may
> not rate it as highly as last week's episode. But I think B&E
> aced this one nevertheless.
Well, here I am, still sticking it out. I liked this one a lot. The
character stuff was so good that I got past the silly business of Tempus'
quick ascension to power, and Congress passing no-phone laws, and so on. I
thought Dino had a very nice moment when Clark-2 saw his parents for the
first time in, um, 18 years. He was subtle, restrained. Very skilled and
very classy. Good job.
Yeah, I loved the Protestant line, too -- and there's something in my
comic-book-reading soul that absolutely loved the joyful business at the
end, with Clark and Superman in the same spot, even though you could see
the bit coming for miles off.
--
Stop by http://www.fred.net/thirteen/
Colonel X
Jon McInnis <jmci...@freenet.calgary.ab.ca> wrote in article
<Pine.A32.3.93.970310...@srv1.freenet.calgary.ab.ca>...
> Query: Who, in fact, told ERL&BB that they could write?
Oh, how I've been wondering about this...
I don't know how
> they do as ExecProds but is this a common thing in television? I thought
> that shows had writing teams for the simple reason that they could write.
> No need to involve producers in this aspect
Oh, you weren't being flippant! Sorry!
As I understand it, this was a change that came about after a WGA strike in
the 80s. TV series have always had a "staff" of writers, but in the 1960s
and 70s, you would only see one "producer" credit and perhaps an "executive
producer" credit. Everyone who was part of the regular staff, but not
holding one of these two positions (like, say, Philip Saltzman on "The
Fugitive") would only get a credit when they finalized a teleplay. Even if
they were always hanging around a production office, contributing ideas or
helping with other people's scripts, they wouldn't be credited for anything
but the teleplay they brought a final draft in.
I first noticed on "Beauty and the Beast" a preponderance of different
types of producers...11 of them or so. Basically, all the "producer,"
"produced by," "line producer," "supervising producer," "consulting
producer," etc. credits deliniate the names of the writing and directing
staff. There's a seniority to the titles, but I'm not sure what it is. This
way, all the writers, who have presumably all thrown an idea or two at the
script in question, get some sort of credit.
So, no, the cats don't know how to write anymore (they used to...the first
season of "Scarecrow and Mrs. King" weren't bad at'tall), but they're
bosses over the rest of the current team and, legally, can write as many
episodes as they want to, provided that they leave (I believe) 1 of every
13 shows for a freelancer, which is a WGA regulation.
klair El
>
> Eugenie and Brad made the fatal error of deciding that, without Lois and
> his folks, "that" Clark is automatically a sad, tragic figure. That's
> nonsense. Why couldn't "that" Clark have found someone else, perhaps a
> different "soul mate" for his universe? Why couldn't he have found some
> other, major source of happiness and treated Lois like an old high school
> flame instead of the one who got away, who he's carried a torch for ever
> since.
>
> "That" Clark has no character. Eugenie and Brad didn't try for crap, and
> Dean didn't attempt to enliven that lack of character to realistic
levels.
>
Dean did, and brilliantly. (Cut the Brillantine jokes)
But first, tragic considerations:
"What do you think this is? A family television show? Only unhappy
endings allowed here [Colonel X]." Tempus in 'Lois and Clarks'
Alternate Clark was created as a tragic figure, (Simkins took the credit
for that episode, I think). The choice made by BB and ERL to retain that
status is not too far fetched. Let's put aside the argument that having
all that growth occur off-screen might make the character so different from
the last encounter as to be unrecognizable to the fans. As originally
proposed, this Alternate Clark's tragic dilemma was having the moral
imperatives without inner strength to act on them. Would being forced to
use his physical abilities develop his personal assurance? Probably, yes.
Definitely, no. Perhaps out of his familiar surroundings, he reverts.
It is even possible that Alternate Clark still has these character issues
completely unresolved. The assumption that he would appear unchanged has
to be considered tenable.
But another Soulmate! What heresy! Another companion, perhaps, but we are
talking large scale irrevocably fated love here.
"Wherever his was, there was yours. Never one without the other. Two
lovers, destined to meet and fall in love, over and over again...." Wells
to Lois in 'Soulmates'
The very idea may drastically disturb our digestion, but it is a dramatic
device, and like it or not, the show is using that conceit heavily. After
all, the show is called Lois and Clark, like Tristan and Isolde, like Romeo
and Juliet. Alternate Clark with a girl friend tarnishes the premise, and
therefore is himself diminished.
You want to turn Alternate Clark into something else, and your ideas would
certainly make an interesting, even satisfying character. Unfortunately,
it would take Alternate Clark 2 to investigate the possibility. And the
danger exists that he would even more closely resemble Clark.
Back to Actor Cain:
> Dean could have done
> himself to make the characters different...He didn't have to come to the
door with his
> shoulders slightly hunched, looking all the world like he was showing up
at
> his prom date's house and was ready to meet her folks!
Now that shoulders hunched, fists clenched stance struck me as consistent
with a background of being 'bounced around' from the age of ten after the
death of Alternate Clark's parents. Far from ready to meet anyone, Dean's
posture offers no challenge, but states a readiness to defend himself, and
a preference for being ignored. With super powers developing (this show
seems to describe them as puberty induced), Alternate Clark could have
swaggered, been a bully. Since he did not, he must have refused to fight.
Dean's posture is characterization with a vengeance.
> On the screenwriting side of things, there were so many little things the
> cats could have written in to distinguish the two. Instead of that
woefully
> sappy clip sequence,
sappy, yes, but it was a stab at explaining that Lois is conflicted in her
feelings. Isn't that Alternate Superman who flies her in the dream?
>they could have given screen time to Lois convincing
> "that" Clark to grease his hair down when he goes out (it makes sense to
> consider that on Other-earth, "that" Clark has no need to do so).
Aerodynamics? <g> Alternate Clark has no desire to reveal that he is not
the homeboy Superman; still, possibly he does do his hair very slightly
differently, my reception is not great.
> The meeting with the Kents was a major failure.
Not major, but certainly less than perfect.
>Why in the world was "that"
> Clark so obsessed with a woman he'd known for, what, 3 days?
Don't you mean 'in the worlds'? <g> Comeon! Where is your Romance?
That's all you're going to get in this setup.
He spent many
> years in the company of his parents and in this world, they were alive?
He
> should have jumped. This, for him, should have been a moment of unbridled
> and amazing happiness. Put yourself in his shoes, everyone. Wouldn't this
> have been the greatest, most wonderful moment in the universe, to find
that
> your late parents were still alive?
The show spent quite a bit of time emphasizing the differences. These were
not 'his' parents; he has to show them a picture of his own parents. That
was a good touch, actually, pushing them away in the act of bringing them
close. Showing the picture means they look alike; having to show it means
they are not alike. And Dean's surpressed enthusiasm conveyed this
dichotomy. Bliss would have been inappropriate.
However, like you, I feel the relationship was not all it could have been.
> --
klair El
Edit Your Own Episode L & C Fanfic
http://www.mindspring.com/~hess2/
VARTOX
Colonel X wrote:
<<Brandon Fisher <bran...@concentric.net> wrote in article
<01bc2d69$ea5e5d00$4544...@crc3.cocentric.net>...
> And why was the alternate Clark so willing to come and protect this
Earth
> and leave crime to run rampant on his?
Now this one does make sense, at least by the brain-dead logic that
surrounds alternate ("that") Clark's (lack of) character development. The
man's been carrying a torch for Lois ever since he met her! HG Wells shows
up and says, "Hey, Lois needs your help in her parallel dimension! Wanna
see her again?"
Of course he'd go with just a little prodding...>>
One Clark left his Earth to go to New Krypton. One left for another
Earth.
I sense a theme here...
Vartox
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Zoomway
>>Query: Who, in fact, told ERL&BB that they could write? I don't know how
they do as ExecProds but is this a common thing in television? I thought
that shows had writing teams for the simple reason that they could write.
No need to involve producers in this aspect<<<<<
Well, I'm not sure if you're asking about the function of producers, but I
know I get asked that a lot. A real life EP told me this stuff, so if it's
wrong, blame him ;)
The Executive Producer is usually (in the beginning anyway) the show's
creator (thought stars have insisted and won this title too). On many
shows, the EP changes a lot as one moves on to do other shows. Almost
everyone with some type of "producer" next to their name is also a writer.
The exception being the "line" producer. The Line Producer is responsible
for the non-creative (not a writer, actor, etc) part, the physical aspect
of pulling an episode together. He/she makes sure certain stages are
available, hires special crews if necesarry and is generally seen as the
one who is responsible for gettng the episode completed on time.
Other titles like "producer" "co-executive producer" "supervising
producer" are usually indicative of hierachy rather than chain-of-command.
That is, you're likely to see co-executive producer next to the name of
someone who has been with the show longer, or came over from another show
where he/she migh have been a "supervising producer". Not wanting a
lateral career move, a writer may insist on having a higher producer title
than what he/she had had on the previous show. The titles are often used
as currency. We can't give you a raise, but how does Supervising Producer
sound? ;) The main reason for shows having so many producers all over the
place is the Emmy Awards. If a show gets nominated for an Emmy, then
everyone with producer next to their name (except the Line Producer) gets
an Emmy nomination.
Now all of this is based on what an EP for a sitcom said, and he also
mentioned that a "Story Editor" isn't what you'd think either. At any
rate, that's what the man said<g>
Zoo...@aol.com (already joined in progress)
Colonel X
> However, like you, I feel the relationship was not all it could have
been.
Hey, Klair, I appreciate your intelligent commentary here. It's obvious
we're not going to agree here, but I do enjoy reading your points. They're
good ones, well thought out, and exactly the sort of debate this ng has
lacked of late.
With regard to the Kents, I do and always will feel it's a damn shame that
"that" Clark was willing after a night to try to put his tongue down his
doppelganger's wife's throat but never spent any quality time with said
doppelganger's parents. Just about all the crap about "chemistry" between
Lois and Clark(s) could have been replaced by Clark's willingness to pay
attention to his family, to see how they might have turned out had they
lived. It would have made a vast difference in my appreciation of the show.
Zoomway
>>Alternate Clark was created as a tragic figure, (Simkins took the credit
for that episode, I think). The choice made by BB and ERL to retain that
status is not too far fetched. Let's put aside the argument that having
all that growth occur off-screen might make the character so different
from
the last encounter as to be unrecognizable to the fans. <<<<
Howdy, Klair, what the heck ya doing here in the sewage reclamation plant
of usenet?<g> If you make it through alive, you get a Godzilla doll ;)
McNamara is credited with writing the episode, but since he was busy with
"Profit" at the time, major writing could have been done by Simkins. I
agree that it's a good thing they left the Alt. Clark more or less in
tact, character-wise, from the one we'd met in "Tempus Anyone" because if
they'd tampered too much with him, we'd hear screams of "no continuity!"
;) His attraction to Lois, for example, was an inescapable part of his
character last outing, and it would have looked like a severe oversight
were it not true this time around either.
As to "tragic" character, I'm not sure he gives me that impression. I
think he's a very sympathetic character, and we root for him to find *his*
Lois, but he seemed an "empty" character before Lois arrived. He lived out
his life almost like an escaped convict terrified of being spotted. The
gift of Superman (a legend to live up to) gave him self-pride, and took
that fear away. He's still incomplete without his Lois, and I loved how
the episode highlighted the differences. Being able to see Lois and
Clark's relationship through a new set of eyes, "Is this how it is with
you to? Working together like this?" "wow" Dean did a great job giving
Alt. Clark some subtle and not so subtle differences.
>>>The very idea may drastically disturb our digestion, but it is a
dramatic
device, and like it or not, the show is using that conceit heavily. After
all, the show is called Lois and Clark, like Tristan and Isolde, like
Romeo
and Juliet. Alternate Clark with a girl friend tarnishes the premise, and
therefore is himself diminished<<<<
Well, that was dramatic ;) But I agree. Clark is fated for Lois in any
world, and the idea that someone esle would be sent in that he could "make
do" with is kind of unthinkable. I wouldn't like it at all ;)
>>>Isn't that Alternate Superman who flies her in the dream?<<<
Yes, the dream seems bracketed by the Alt. Clark. He's in the opening
sequence of the montage, and then the closing sequence. It is a good
lead-in to the next scene Lois has with Alt. Clark. The babbling fear has
left her, and she wants to confront, and even comfort Alt. Clark about the
confusion they experienced earlier. Teri does a great job here of
portraying Lois betrayed by her tears when she's trying to explain to Alt.
Clark what happened between them.
>>>Don't you mean 'in the worlds'? <g> Comeon! Where is your Romance?
That's all you're going to get in this setup<<
It's not just that, but I think "Tempus Anyone" just like "Lois and
Clarks" was saying that there is an instant bond that Clark feels for
Lois. Clark has said repeatedly that he fell instantly in love with Lois,
and then we have them as soulmates destined to always be together. I think
Alt. Clark's obsession was logical. "This feeling I keep having whenever
I'm around you; I can't control it." He seemed to fall instantly in love
with Lois too.
>>>However, like you, I feel the relationship was not all it could have
been.<<<
The only thing I would have added would perhaps be the Kents saying they
have enough love for two sons, otherwise I have little complaint about the
episode. I thought it was a real ripsnorter of an adventure (sorry, H.G.
Wells effects me that way ;)
Zoo...@aol.com ("Well, that's the Protestant in you" ;)
Jon McInnis
On 12 Mar 1997, Zoomway wrote:
> I thought it was a real ripsnorter of an adventure (sorry, H.G. Wells
> effects me that way ;) ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Zoo...@aol.com ("Well, that's the Protestant in you" ;)
Umm...Zoomway...
You do this to me at least once a month. Where do you get these words
from? Please explain and/or give the origin of the term "ripsnorter". I
guess being a Canadian hoser, I've never heard of it, eh?
Take off,
JON.
Brad Ferguson
In article <01bc2f31$a08e13e0$b400...@negia.net.negia.net>, "Colonel X"
<Colo...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> klair El <he...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
> <01bc2e4b$5feb1cc0$5100a8c0@hobbes>...
> > However, like you, I feel the relationship was not all it could have
> been.
>
> Hey, Klair, I appreciate your intelligent commentary here. It's obvious
> we're not going to agree here, but I do enjoy reading your points. They're
> good ones, well thought out, and exactly the sort of debate this ng has
> lacked of late.
>
> With regard to the Kents, I do and always will feel it's a damn shame that
> "that" Clark was willing after a night to try to put his tongue down his
> doppelganger's wife's throat but never spent any quality time with said
> doppelganger's parents. Just about all the crap about "chemistry" between
> Lois and Clark(s) could have been replaced by Clark's willingness to pay
> attention to his family, to see how they might have turned out had they
> lived. It would have made a vast difference in my appreciation of the show.
I think they have the opportunity here to do a really interesting take on a
Superman who grew up without a family, who's trying his best but who _must_
eventually fail. I wish the Earth-Two Supes would find conclusive proof
that the Lois of that world was dead in the Congo. Let's see how Supes
does without a soulmate. Not well, I'd expect, and I think it'd be
interesting.
It's much easier to do stories revolving around this soulmate/reincarnation
crap, though, so it won't happen.
Duff
TH>>
TH>> With regard to the Kents, I do and always will feel it's a damn shame th
TH>> "that" Clark was willing after a night to try to put his tongue down his
TH>> doppelganger's wife's throat but never spent any quality time with said
TH>> doppelganger's parents. Just about all the crap about "chemistry" betwee
TH>> Lois and Clark(s) could have been replaced by Clark's willingness to pay
TH>> attention to his family, to see how they might have turned out had they
TH>> lived. It would have made a vast difference in my appreciation of the sh
TH>I think they have the opportunity here to do a really interesting take on a
TH>Superman who grew up without a family, who's trying his best but who _must_
TH>eventually fail. I wish the Earth-Two Supes would find conclusive proof
TH>that the Lois of that world was dead in the Congo. Let's see how Supes
TH>does without a soulmate. Not well, I'd expect, and I think it'd be
TH>interesting.
TH>It's much easier to do stories revolving around this soulmate/reincarnation
TH>crap, though, so it won't happen.
It would be interesting if Clark 2 finds Lois 2 dead, and gets fixated
on the 'rapport' he and lois 1 shared briefly. He could try and kill
clark 1 and weasel his way into her life.
I personally think this would be a tacky story line, but I could see it
happening, after all, Lex tried it...
ciao4now
-duff
mdu...@ggbbs.com
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