Ben Stone's sex life
Barry Gallagher
thank goodness it did not matter. The early Law and Order characters
seemed to exist only on the job - we saw what their colleagues saw.
It was refreshing to see someone in an American series as outwardly
asexual as Ben Stone, played to perfection by Michael Moriarty. One
can imagine him icily rejecting any improper overtures from female
colleagues and in that he represents a significant post-Famine Irish
archetype now forgotten. Recent revelations notwithstanding, even I
can recall a time in Irish Catholic life when sex was so strongly
repressed it barely seemed to exist in many people. I can imagine
Stone/Moriarty in an earlier time as a bishop perhaps or a Jesuit
missionary "saving" souls in the Amazon.
I am sure this has come up many times but I know of no other character
in a crime series who conveyed such passion and indignation with such
economy and restraint.
Brian D. Ginsberg
might even have been Shambalah Green, I don't recall) asked him if he had
any daughters and Stone said yes.
"Barry Gallagher" <bga...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:35144cae.02072...@posting.google.com...
kitteridge
to a lawsuit, a comment is made (I'm being vague so as not to give away any
spoilers) that he got "killed" in the divorce, which (if memory serves)
happened not long after he was made EADA, which (again, if memory serves)
was in the mid 1980s. There is a photo on his desk which is actually of
Moriarty with his real-life child, which is meant to be Stone's child, who I
believe is a daughter.
In an interview (sorry to keep plugging the zine, but that's where a lot of
this stuff is) with Lorraine Toussaint (ex-Shambala Green) at apocrypha, she
comments that she and Moriarty wanted them to work in some kind of subtle
relationship between them, and that is how they tried to play it. Here's the
interview:
http://www.podengo.com/apocrypha/spring98/toussaint.html
--Kitt
"Barry Gallagher" <bga...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:35144cae.02072...@posting.google.com...
MSey
"Keeper of the Purple Twilight" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210720022231434473%n...@spam.invalid...
> In article <6zJ_8.9381$Qk6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> kitteridge <kitte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In an interview (sorry to keep plugging the zine, but that's where a lot
of
> > this stuff is) with Lorraine Toussaint (ex-Shambala Green) at apocrypha,
she
> > comments that she and Moriarty wanted them to work in some kind of
subtle
> > relationship between them, and that is how they tried to play it. Here's
the
> > interview:
>
> whom Ben was involved with? I can see Ben being with Liz, but
> Shambala? They'd have killed each other in the first minute. :)
I think the fact that they were adversaries heightened their attraction.
It often does. You could tell these two people were very attracted to each
other, even though they weren't in too many eps together. Oh, it was there.
And I still believe there was something between Skoda and Harmon's
character. ;-)
Murielle
MSey
"kitteridge" <kitte...@yahoo.com> wrote
(snip!)
. . . . with Lorraine Toussaint (ex-Shambala Green) at apocrypha, she
> comments that she and Moriarty wanted them to work in some kind of subtle
> relationship between them, and that is how they tried to play it. Here's
the
> interview:
> --Kitt
I knew that! Really! I saw it, it was very subtle, but very "there".
Murielle
Chris Crandall
: Didn't somebody here once suggest that it was Liz Olivet, not Shambala,
: whom Ben was involved with?
That would be our old pal Walt.
Walt
I do remember in the past that Michael Moriarity wanted Ben to have a
relationship with Shambala Green, and yes, that would have been an interesting
affair had they wrote it that way.
In awnser the question on Ben and Elizabeth Olivet, yes, I was the one who
first thought up that one, after seeing a well-into-her-pregnancy Elizabeth in
"Killerz" (second episode of season 10) when Carolyn McCormick (who played
Elizabeth) was pregnant in real life.
While Ben might have had an affair with Shambala, I still think in the end, he
winds up marrying Elizabeth well after he leaves the DA's Office, with the
seeds for such planted in season three's "Helpless", when Ben puts the doctor
who raped Elizabeth away, though not for her rape after Judge Keith Silver
issues a "trial order of dismissal" after the jury finds Dr. Alex Merritt
guilty of raping Elizabeth, and then two episodes later in "Point of View" (the
first episode we see Jerry Orbach play Lennie Briscoe), when Ben feels
absolutely awful about having to bring up the rape in a different case he's
prosecuting.
If Ben and Elizabeth did marry, it most likely occured around the time of
"Custody" (Robinette's return in season six), when Paul threatens a judge with
having Ben testify in a hearing concerning his fairness on a case, knowing Ben
was "traveling through Europe, and was unable to testify at any hearing" (as
Adam put it), and Elizabeth was NOT in that episode.
Just my view on this.
Walt
E-mail me at: Free...@juno.com
Barry Gallagher
> this stuff is) with Lorraine Toussaint (ex-Shambala Green) at apocrypha, she
> comments that she and Moriarty wanted them to work in some kind of subtle
> relationship between them, and that is how they tried to play it. Here's the
> interview:
>
> http://www.podengo.com/apocrypha/spring98/toussaint.html
>
> --Kitt
Interesting. I saw several of these episodes and completely missed
this angle. I think I can remember the odd flicker of wry amusement
on Stone's face at Green's indignant tirades but that's it. Next time
I'll take a closer look.
Thanks.
dausang
episode, where he had his life shredded by a man he put in prison for
murder, and the conviction was overturned.
Michael Garibaldi
micha...@earthalliance.com
dausang
together, you can tell that she gives Ben Stone a major migraine, and only
tolerates her because his job requires him to do so! If in deed they had
such a relationship, they would have more of an understanding of each other
than what they had displayed.
Michael Garibaldi
micha...@earthalliance.com
dausang
as likely to have an affair as George Bush Jr. is likely to go on a picnic
with Ben Ladden!
Michael Garibaldi
micha...@earthalliance.com
dausang
Michael Garibaldi
micha...@earthalliance.com
MSey
"dausang" <dau...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:W5i%8.105745$Wt3.89882@rwcrnsc53...
I can see that you do. Still, I think you have to give some credit to
the actors who play the characters. If they say they intended an attraction
between the two characters (and I'm sure we can all agree on how good these
two actors are, and that they are perfectly capable of enacting anything
they choose) then it's there, we may not have seen it, but it must be there
because they've said that they put it there, intentionally.
Maybe it's time to go back and read the article the original poster was
quoting . . . I meant to at the time, but basically just patted myself on
the back because it was something I "saw" the very first time I watched the
episode.
Oh no! LOL! Something else to read! ;-))
Murielle
Scott
> Kitt:
>
> I do remember in the past that Michael Moriarity wanted Ben to have a
> relationship with Shambala Green, and yes, that would have been an interesting
> affair had they wrote it that way.
>
> In awnser the question on Ben and Elizabeth Olivet, yes, I was the one who
> first thought up that one, after seeing a well-into-her-pregnancy Elizabeth in
> "Killerz" (second episode of season 10) when Carolyn McCormick (who played
> Elizabeth) was pregnant in real life.
>
> While Ben might have had an affair with Shambala, I still think in the end, he
> winds up marrying Elizabeth well after he leaves the DA's Office, with the
> seeds for such planted in season three's "Helpless", when Ben puts the doctor
> who raped Elizabeth away, though not for her rape after Judge Keith Silver
> issues a "trial order of dismissal" after the jury finds Dr. Alex Merritt
> guilty of raping Elizabeth, and then two episodes later in "Point of View" (the
> first episode we see Jerry Orbach play Lennie Briscoe), when Ben feels
> absolutely awful about having to bring up the rape in a different case he's
> prosecuting.
>
Forgive me if this is just a false memory on my part, Walt, but didn't
you once claim that it was LOGAN having an affair with Olivet,
specifically mentioning "Helpless" as one episode in which this was
hinted at? Danielle Melnick cross-examined one of them (can't recall
which one) and they explicitly mentioned a "relationship", but that
was clearly understood by all to mean professional rathr than
personal.....
Walt
>> I do remember in the past that Michael Moriarity wanted Ben to have a
>> relationship with Shambala Green, and yes, that would have been an
>interesting
>> affair had they wrote it that way.
>>
>> In awnser the question on Ben and Elizabeth Olivet, yes, I was the one who
>> first thought up that one, after seeing a well-into-her-pregnancy Elizabeth
>in
>> "Killerz" (second episode of season 10) when Carolyn McCormick (who played
>> Elizabeth) was pregnant in real life.
>>
>> While Ben might have had an affair with Shambala, I still think in the end,
>he
>> winds up marrying Elizabeth well after he leaves the DA's Office, with the
>> seeds for such planted in season three's "Helpless", when Ben puts the
>doctor
>> who raped Elizabeth away, though not for her rape after Judge Keith Silver
>> issues a "trial order of dismissal" after the jury finds Dr. Alex Merritt
>> guilty of raping Elizabeth, and then two episodes later in "Point of View"
>(the
>> first episode we see Jerry Orbach play Lennie Briscoe), when Ben feels
>> absolutely awful about having to bring up the rape in a different case he's
>> prosecuting.
>>
><edit>
To which Scottyfield replied:
>Forgive me if this is just a false memory on my part, Walt, but didn't
>you once claim that it was LOGAN having an affair with Olivet,
>specifically mentioning "Helpless" as one episode in which this was
>hinted at? Danielle Melnick cross-examined one of them (can't recall
>which one) and they explicitly mentioned a "relationship", but that
>was clearly understood by all to mean professional rathr than
>personal.....
I NEVER said that it was Mike Logan who had a relationship with Elizabeth
Olivet, though I can understand where you might get confused on the issue,
especially given there is a considerable amount of fanfiction out there where
Mike Logan and Elizabeth Olivet either currently are in a relationship or
previously had one.
It was only after seeing "Killerz" (second episode of season 10) that I thought
it would make sense that Ben and Elizabeth are now married (and I should note,
I only started watching "L & O" at the start of season nine and had just caught
up on the previous seasons watching A & E in the summer of 1999). You can build
the timeline on that as noted on three episodes:
"Helpless" (episode before Phil Ceretta gets shot in season three): Elizabeth
is raped by Dr. Alex Merritt, Ben sucessfully gets a jury to find Dr. Merritt
guilty which the judge (Keith Silver) throws out, issuing a trial order of
dismissal. Ben then has Dr. Merritt arrested again, this time for raping a
paitient of Elizabeth's who was mentally unstable, but does it where Dr.
Merritt is seen on the evening news. 54 other women then press charges against
Dr. Merritt, and he goes to jail.
"Point Of View" (also in season three, episode after Ceretta gets shot and
debut by Jerry Orbach as Lennie Briscoe): Prosecuting a trial for murder,
Elizabeth is brought in by the defense as a witness to her mental state at the
time she killed her husband. Ben is forced to bring up Elizabeth's rape in
cross-examination, and feels absolutely awful about it, though Elizabeth knew
that was coming and was fully expecting it.
"Custody" (Robinette's Return in season six): Paul threatens a judge with Ben
Stone testifying about remarks made to them several years earlier, with the
judge pulling out of the case. Adam then tells Jack and Claire that "Ben Stone
is traveling through Europe, and was unable to testify at any hearing." Given
that Elizabeth was NOT in this episode, it's POSSIBLE that Ben and Elizabeth
married at the end of 1995, and at this point in early '96 were on their
Honeymoon in Europe.
These three episodes, along with "Killerz" is how I have Ben Stone now married
to Elizabeth Olivet, coupled with the fact, Ben seemed to look out for
Elizabeth after that in season four, but they didn't even start dating until
after he left the DA's Office.
Scott
Ahhh - so it WAS just a false memory on my part! <;) Thanks for
correcting (& forgiving) me, Walt...
Colin O'Flynn
(but he didn't seem too convincin or interested)