The Ancient? Lo Si?? Ping Hai???
TanaLeaf9
Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin apothecary he plays was
referred to, from the start, simply by the nickname "The Ancient."
Later on, he was suddenly being referred to by the name Lo Si. Did this just
happen spontaneously, or was there some particular plot point somewhere (which
I must have missed) which motivated the change fron nickname to real name? (Or
is "Lo Si" simply Chinese for "The Ancient"...?)
Even more confusing is the fact that he apparently also appears in the
flashbacks to the Northern California temple, where he is referred to as Ping
Hai. Even in the present, Peter would recall his childhood there and talk
about Ping Hai this, and Ping Hai that. Now, it's obviously the same guy,
right -- or is it? Why the two names? Why didn't Caine recognize Lo Si as
Ping Hai right off the bat, in the series opener (movie)? After all, he
remembered Peter (duh), and Master Kahn, and villains like Tan and Vance
Cavanaugh....
Or, if Ping Hai and Lo Si really are supposed to be two separate characters,
why have Kim Chan play both? If they're one and the same, how could this
escape Caine and Peter? Or am I missing something?
Can anyone enlighten me regarding this murky ambiguity?
Thanks!
biocheckar
> played by Kim Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin
> apothecary he plays was referred to, from the start, simply
> by the nickname "The Ancient." Later on, he was suddenly
> being referred to by the name Lo Si. Did this just happen
> spontaneously, or was there some particular plot point
> somewhere (which I must have missed) which motivated the
> change fron nickname to real name? (Or is "Lo Si" simply
> Chinese for "The Ancient"...?)
I strongly suspect "Lo Si" is Chinese for something like "the old man". Look
at Lao Tzu, Lao Tze, Lao Zi, or however you want to romanize it - the
ancient taoist tha the Tao Te Ching is attributed to. His "name" means
something like "old man", and "Lo Si" looks very similar.
Brian Scott
>
> > I've gotten a bit confused regarding the KF:TLC character(s?) played by Kim
> > Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin apothecary he plays was
> > referred to, from the start, simply by the nickname "The Ancient."
>
>
Anyone see him in Lethal Weapon 4? He's a wonderfully evil old man.
Brian
Iian Neill
> Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin apothecary he plays was
> referred to, from the start, simply by the nickname "The Ancient."
And he isn't he just a wonderful old man? :-)
> Later on, he was suddenly being referred to by the name Lo Si. Did this just
> happen spontaneously, or was there some particular plot point somewhere (which
> I must have missed) which motivated the change fron nickname to real name? (Or
> is "Lo Si" simply Chinese for "The Ancient"...?)
I noticed that too, and had assumed I must have missed the explanatory episode.
Hopefully someone can shed some light on it for us ...
> Even more confusing is the fact that he apparently also appears in the
> flashbacks to the Northern California temple, where he is referred to as Ping
> Hai. Even in the present, Peter would recall his childhood there and talk
> about Ping Hai this, and Ping Hai that. Now, it's obviously the same guy,
> right -- or is it? Why the two names? Why didn't Caine recognize Lo Si as
> Ping Hai right off the bat, in the series opener (movie)? After all, he
> remembered Peter (duh), and Master Kahn, and villains like Tan and Vance
> Cavanaugh....
>
> Or, if Ping Hai and Lo Si really are supposed to be two separate characters,
> why have Kim Chan play both? If they're one and the same, how could this
> escape Caine and Peter? Or am I missing something?
My guess is that there is meant to be the FEELING that Ping Hai and Lo Si are
somehow the same person spiritually - a reincarnation, perhaps, just as our Kwai
Chang is the reincarnation of his grandfather. In the first episode (the pilot) of
"The Legend Continues", The Ancient is shown superimposed over a picture of Master
Po - thus also suggesting that he is a reincarnation of the original Caine's
Master.
Basically, my guess is that the show's creators were trying to suggest this feeling
of "intertwined destinies".
I hope this is some help ...
Regards,
Iian Neill.
TanaLeaf9
>somehow the same person spiritually - a reincarnation, perhaps, just as our
>Kwai
>Chang is the reincarnation of his grandfather. In the first episode (the
>pilot) of
>"The Legend Continues", The Ancient is shown superimposed over a picture of
>Master
>Po - thus also suggesting that he is a reincarnation of the original Caine's
>Master.
Now, this is interesting. Do you suppose that if Keye Luke (who played Master
Po) were still alive, he might have been cast as The Ancient in KF:TLC?
Also interesting o contemplate that this Caine is a reincarnation of the
original Kwai Chang (was that ever spelled out in so many words in the
series?).
Leylioness
>> Or, if Ping Hai and Lo Si really are supposed to be two separate
>characters,
>> why have Kim Chan play both? If they're one and the same, how could this
>> escape Caine and Peter? Or am I missing something?
>
>
I think it was in the last episode where Lo Si shows Caine the picture of his
wife that he thought was dead that I recall something on this subject. Didn't
Lo Si say something to the effect of telling Peter who he (Lo Si) really was?
And in the ep where Caine and Peter are reunited notice the expression on
Caine's face when Peter tells him that Ping Hai died. Maybe I'm remembering it
wrong but I don't think so. I never remember the names of episodes too
well...but here is another reference.
There was someone like a shadow assassin in the temple and Ping Hai pretended
to be dead, fooled Peter and the rest of the people in the temple. So, it is
possible that if he convinced Peter once that he was dead then he could
convince him later as well. And thoughts?....
Leyli
Joan Cieply
Leylioness wrote in message
<199808010231...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>>>
>>> Or, if Ping Hai and Lo Si really are supposed to be two separate
>>characters,
>>> why have Kim Chan play both? If they're one and the same, how could
this
>>> escape Caine and Peter? Or am I missing something?
>>
>>
>
>I think it was in the last episode where Lo Si shows Caine the picture of
his
>wife that he thought was dead that I recall something on this subject.
Didn't
>Lo Si say something to the effect of telling Peter who he (Lo Si) really
was?
In the last Ep, Caine asks Lo Si if he is going to tell Peter that he is
really Ping Hai.
Also another Ep, I think the one where they return to the temple, they said
that Ping Hai told both of them that the other was dead to protect them from
the people who tried to kill them at the temple. They might have been after
Ping Hai also so he was using a different name. Also if I am remembering
correctly (todays a bad day for thinking) Lo Si said he was watching over
Peter while his father was wondering. I'm not sure of that ep.
Hope this helps.
(If I'm wrong someone please correct me. Thanks)
PQ Rada
always refers to himself as Very old.In the return to the original temple
episode,Peter's love was older than he was and I caught the implication she
might have mothered the first David appearing Kwai Chang as Peter taught them
how to be Kung Fu's proponents.It is interesting to see these ideas play out..
Iian Neill
> >>>characters, why have Kim Chan play both? If they're one and the same, how
> could
> >>>this escape Caine and Peter? Or am I missing something?
> >
> >I think it was in the last episode where Lo Si shows Caine the picture of
> >his wife that he thought was dead that I recall something on this subject.
> >Didn't Lo Si say something to the effect of telling Peter who he (Lo Si)
> really
> >was?
>
> In the last Ep, Caine asks Lo Si if he is going to tell Peter that he is
> really Ping Hai.
Ahh. I haven't yet seen the last episode, so was unaware of that fact.
> Also another Ep, I think the one where they return to the temple, they said
> that Ping Hai told both of them that the other was dead to protect them from
> the people who tried to kill them at the temple.
It was affirmed that this was so from the very first episode - the pilot. Peter
found "Pop" in the hospital and expressed his desire to "kill that old man". Pop
asked "which old man". Peter answered: "Ping Hai. He told me you were dead." We
are then informed that Ping Hai had fabricated this deception to save Caine and
Peter from Tan's wrath. I've always thought that was a bit dubious, myself.
> They might have been after
> Ping Hai also so he was using a different name. Also if I am remembering
> correctly (todays a bad day for thinking) Lo Si said he was watching over
> Peter while his father was wondering. I'm not sure of that ep.
>
> Hope this helps.
> (If I'm wrong someone please correct me. Thanks)
I'm not sure whether there are any "rights" or "wrongs" here. My interpretation
of it (drawn mainly from the first episode) is that Lo Si is a re-incarnation of
Ping Hai, as well as a re-incarnation of Master Po. There is meant to be, I
think, this feeling of "intertwined destinies" -- that Caine and his Master Po
are somehow linked through eternity. I remember a scene where Kwai Chang is
lying on a cot in the Ancient's room, recovering from the stab wound. He looks
up at Lo Si, disorientated, and sees the face of Master Po over his!! Then that
vision blurs back into the Ancient's features. Later episodes also make very
obvious the physical similarities between Ping Hai and Lo Si. In fact, it does
seem impossible that Peter would forget what Ping Hai looks like, especially
since he sees the Ancient all the time. So, when, in the last episode, "Caine
asks Lo Si if he is going to tell Peter that he is really Ping Hai", I read that
to mean that Lo Si is not *physically* Ping Hai, but his next incarnation.
But I could be wrong.
Regards,
Iian Neill.
steven walsh
: > I've gotten a bit confused regarding the KF:TLC character(s?)
: > played by Kim Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin
: > apothecary he plays was referred to, from the start, simply
: > being referred to by the name Lo Si. Did this just happen
: > spontaneously, or was there some particular plot point
: > somewhere (which I must have missed) which motivated the
: > change fron nickname to real name? (Or is "Lo Si" simply
: > Chinese for "The Ancient"...?)
: I strongly suspect "Lo Si" is Chinese for something like "the old man". Look
: at Lao Tzu, Lao Tze, Lao Zi, or however you want to romanize it - the
: ancient taoist tha the Tao Te Ching is attributed to. His "name" means
: something like "old man", and "Lo Si" looks very similar.
I've also suspected something like this. After a long time, I
realized that "Lo Si" is a possible pronunciation of the english
transliteration "Lao Tsu/Tao Tze/etc etc" Lao Tzu literally translated is
"old man" I'm told.
For those who don't know, Lao Tzu is considered the founder of
Taoism. He is thought to have been a contemporary of Confucius and wrote
the Tao Te Ching a few hundred years before the birth of Christ.
If it _is_ supposed to be this way, it would indeed make him...
Ancient :)
steven walsh
: I think it was in the last episode where Lo Si shows Caine the picture of his
: wife that he thought was dead that I recall something on this subject. Didn't
: Lo Si say something to the effect of telling Peter who he (Lo Si) really was?
: Caine's face when Peter tells him that Ping Hai died. Maybe I'm remembering it
: wrong but I don't think so. I never remember the names of episodes too
: well...but here is another reference.
: There was someone like a shadow assassin in the temple and Ping Hai pretended
: to be dead, fooled Peter and the rest of the people in the temple. So, it is
: possible that if he convinced Peter once that he was dead then he could
: convince him later as well. And thoughts?....
At the end of the last KF-TLC episode Lo Si says, "I am of course,
Ping Hai". Seems pretty blatant.
steven walsh
: I'm not sure whether there are any "rights" or "wrongs" here. My interpretation
: of it (drawn mainly from the first episode) is that Lo Si is a re-incarnation of
: Ping Hai, as well as a re-incarnation of Master Po. There is meant to be, I
: think, this feeling of "intertwined destinies" -- that Caine and his Master Po
: are somehow linked through eternity. I remember a scene where Kwai Chang is
: lying on a cot in the Ancient's room, recovering from the stab wound. He looks
: up at Lo Si, disorientated, and sees the face of Master Po over his!! Then that
: vision blurs back into the Ancient's features. Later episodes also make very
: obvious the physical similarities between Ping Hai and Lo Si. In fact, it does
: seem impossible that Peter would forget what Ping Hai looks like, especially
: since he sees the Ancient all the time. So, when, in the last episode, "Caine
: asks Lo Si if he is going to tell Peter that he is really Ping Hai", I read that
: to mean that Lo Si is not *physically* Ping Hai, but his next incarnation.
First off I don't see why Ping Hai would have to be dead. The time
period between when Peter is at the temple and when he's a cop in the series is only 25
years.
Second, remember that when Caine and Peter go back in time to ensure that
Kung Fu gets started at Shaolin, Ping Hai is there and knows Peter by name when he meets
him.
: But I could be wrong.
: Regards,
: Iian Neill.
Pete Deegan
Iian Neill wrote in message <35C1CF96...@student.uq.edu.au>...
>> I've gotten a bit confused regarding the KF:TLC character(s?) played by
Kim
>> Chan. I know, of course, that the elderly Shaolin apothecary he plays
was
>> referred to, from the start, simply by the nickname "The Ancient."
Just a thought on this Ping Hai/Lo Si discussion...In a few episodes of
KF:TLC, Lo Si likens himself to "Merlin" (The Sorcerer of the Arthurian
Legends) Could it be that the entity that we know (and love) as the Ancient
could be some sort of a Shaolin sorcerer capable of taking on different
forms and intermeshing himself in the Caine line? At the temple, as Ping
Hai. At the first temple, in the time of "Kwai Chang" in Ancient China, as
the Apothecary (who, recognizes Peter and who Peter asks if he is Lo Si or
Ping Hai), and finally as Lo Si, the Chinatown denizen known as "The
Ancient."
If you remember the episode in which Peter goes to the Temple to complete
his training, and the plot includes "The Death Stone," carved by a Sing Wa
Sorcerer, as it is mentioned. Seeing as how there is always a balance for
everything, since the Sing Wa can have sorcerers, why could the Shaolin?
Just a thought...
Pete
Kurt green
, i thought he was from the Temple in China, not California. But i
could be wrong.. If you find out for sure , please contact me and let me
know..
contact @ spasti...@webtv.net
Thanks
Kurt green
from china..
Kurt green
seen any of Jet Li, before, but he is going to hit america hard. When
america see's Jet compared to Bruce, or Jacki, they will realize he is
one of the best. Jacki & Bruce are still awesome, But DAMN...
PQ Rada
like the Yogi great masters Babaji and others.He very often suggested his
unusual great age.And he was both Lo Si and Ping Hai, plus the father of Pete's
girlfriend inancient China.And why do they give all the good love scenes to
Peter.?He's just a kid compared to a gifted lover like Kwai Chang Caine.!!!!!!
PQ Rada
appealing to us as Kwai;it is because he encompasses great strength with such
piercing gentleness, and tenderness.His latest wife is 20 or so years
younger,GRRRRRRChachi
Tmissis
Kettir.The.Cat.The.Wonderful.Wonderful.Cat writes:
> As far as KCC being a
>great lover, I think it's a shame they never showed anything like that--I
>don't mean an actual scene in a bedroom but at least something that would
>give us a hint as to why Mary Margaret puts up with him just taking off
>without a word.
In one of the KF:TLC episodes, KCC gave Peter practically all of his chi to
help him defeat Clarence Choi. Peter became as strong as KCC and was able to
defeat Clarence. But he also experienced a very powerful sexual energy that
nearly overwhelmed him. He asked his father how he coped with it and received
only a shrug and an enigmatic smile. MM came in shortly afterward, looking
thrilled to be going out with KCC. ;-)
Peg
CAS412
the Lethal Weapon 4 Movie currently in the theaters. I really love this guy. He
did a good job in the movie.