KITT VS VIPER
Mclain
series Viper. Who would win this match. Viper Or Kitt. I mean, Viper is also
a super Car. But it doesnt have a mind on it's own.
Before i forget, does anyone know if the series Knight Rider is being
broadcast on any channels in The Netherlands.
See Yah,
Mclain
KITT
And I know because I live in Amsterdam.
"Mclain" <gt.t...@home.nl> schreef in bericht
news:902dlm$2bk3$2...@buty.wanadoo.nl...
Nee716
would pull through. The Vipers armor plating is coated like a clear coat if u
will. KITTs was bonded into the metal. KITT could probably ram the Viper a
few times and crush it because of the second season of Viper, I forgot the
episode. There was an android going around and smacked the "Defenders" window
like 4 r 5 times and smashed it and Frankie was saying the vipers armor coating
cant take anymore beating.
I was also upset when Viper made a stupid reference to Knight Rider.
Phantom6
KITT in three moves.
Microlock Vipers power distribution net.
Seal it's weapon ports with his laser.
Push it off a bridge.
Michael R Lawler
declard a tie woun't mind haveing both cars for me love those cars
mrel...@aol.com
Michael Lawler
Mclain
see yah
"Michael R Lawler" <mrel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001129195231...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
Brian M Gajewski
: I would say it is a toss up. But I think it would be a tough fight but KITT
Let's see KITT was completely DESTROYED in 4 episodes in the Original
Series 4 season run.
The Viper was destoyed only once in 4 seasons -- I'd say the Viper is far
less vulernable than you make it out to be.
Don't forget, The Viper has an arsenal of weapons including .50 caliber
machine guns, static pulse, lasers, spider bombs and more. This is a moot
point on a KR newsgroup anyway -- Bias will come through. Besides, we had
this discussion already.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: to tell you the truth i can't decide because i like both cars so they both are
: declard a tie woun't mind haveing both cars for me love those cars
: mrel...@aol.com
: Michael Lawler
Good answer.
I agree.
:> Brian
JHen2000
Well, what was the reference?
Brian M Gajewski
: > I was also upset when Viper made a stupid reference to Knight Rider.
: Well, what was the reference?
He's probably talking about the Viper episode "Black Box" from Season
2. In the episode, a Software CEO (with a heavy resemblance to Bill
Gates) is killing people to get the ultimate computer prototype for his
company -- namely artificial intelligence. At the end of the episode, the
Artificial Intelligence briefly took over control of the Viper Complex and
the Defender.
At the end of the episode, they poked a little fun at Knight
Rider. Frankie suggested leaving the A/I installed in the Car/Complex --
to think of the possibilties: A car that talks!
Cole sighed and said, "I'll pass."
It was a fairly decent episode, good action -- lots of witty parody
elements -- namely Bill Gates/Microsoft and Knight Rider.
:) Brian
March2875
show Kitt's "Vulnerablity" The circumstances surrounding the destructions are
what counts. Viper wouldn't survive Goliath. Viper wouldn't survive the Acid
Pit. Viper wouldn't survive a missile up the exhaust.
C4
And Viper wouldn't survive KITT.
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Ewoud Heidanus
Hello????
KITT would win!!
"C4" <bowling...@kentucky.com> schreef in bericht
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GrK TrAnS Am 81
VERY TRUE POINT....... K.I.T.T. all the way............. oh who would win
in a head on collision??????? i think kitt would b/c of his indestructible
shell...... viper got some ghetto ripoff of a shield....even though i love
both series
Brian M Gajewski
: There you go again Brian. Using Kitt's number of destructions out of context to
: show Kitt's "Vulnerablity" The circumstances surrounding the destructions are
: what counts.
Just stating a fact -- The Viper was only destroyed once, by its own team
to keep it falling into the wrong hands. KITT was destroyed 4 times --
through various accidents.
: Viper wouldn't survive Goliath.
It wouldn't need to -- Both Cole and Astor wouldn't be dumb enough to try
to ram something head-on with a moving object that has 20 times the mass
of their vehicle.
The Viper featured a laser and a grapling hook -- which is how KITT
destroyed/outmanuevered Goliath both times.
: Viper wouldn't survive the Acid
: Pit.
It wouldn't need to. In the episode "Talk is Cheap" from season 2 -- The
Defender was put in a very similar situation. A fork lift picked up the
Viper and attempted to put it in a car crusher. The probe's laser
disabled the forklifts hydralics, dropping the Viper back on the ground in
just few seconds.
One thing on Vipers side: Both Cole and Astor never made dumb decisions in
the run of the show. Knight Rider's writers had Michael make judgement
lapses -- putting KITT and himself in peril for the suspense of the
episode.
: Viper wouldn't survive a missile up the exhaust.
I'd beg to differ. The Viper sustained nearly a dozen direct hits from
missiles in the Season 1 episode "Thief of Hearts." The first missle hit
the rear end, with Joe trying to avoid it. Then about 8 missiles pounded
the vehicle from the front -- badly beaten, it drove on.
So, I say that Viper is very strong compared to KITT (obviously, a
molecular bond is as strong as you get). If you've season 4,
the Defender made jumps that rival KITT's best -- so its a tough
vehicle.
If KITT rammed the Defender -- I think it would make a mess. Who
wins? Who knows, it never happened -- its just speculation. But I
believe both cars are pretty evenly matched = That was my point.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
I agree.
But KITT couldn't survive the DEFENDER.
Brian
March2875
got up his exhaust then it was harmed. But then when cole and westlake shot the
Viper it blew completely, Kitt didn't blow up completely. The body of the car
had absolutely no harm. It was all internal damage only. So Kitt's body is
Superstrong the structure has never failed with missiles involved.
Brian M Gajewski
: Brian Kitt has been hit several times by Missiles too. No harm done but when it
But my point is: The Viper was only capable of being destroyed in car mode
(that episode, they had to force the morph to get it out of Defender
mode). If you remember in Season 2, "The Standoff" episode -- the
Defender's armour is seperate from the stock car's body shells (when the
car morphed, its damage went away -- hidden by the roadster's panels).
The DEFENDER has never been destroyed by any vehicle. Not by Firehawk,
Dekker's Semi.... Anything. The only time is was destroyed was in
Roadster mode (its weaker in this form -- merely bulletproof). So if KITT
faced off the DEFENDER -- it'd be damn close. In Boxing terms, the
Defender is undefeated where KITT is something like 86-4-0.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: KITT CAN THINK!!!!! Viper Can't!!!!
: Hello????
It doesn't need to: The Viper's drivers weren't mentally challenged.
Where David Hasselhoff needed all the help he could get!
The only dumber driver behind the wheel than Michael Knight was probably
Bo Duke -- that is scary.
Example: Goliath
"If we're quick enough -- we can take out his right front tire."
Earth to Michael Knight: That Semi weighs 25 more tons than your
vehicle.
Yet, in that same episode -- Michael figures out how to build a
ramjet out of a turbine. The funny part is -- this is completely
impossible, a ramjet only functions if the vehicle is already
traveling at supersonic speeds (700+ Mph). Gee, that's
consistent (sarcasm). Dumb enough to ram an 18 wheeler, Smart
enough to defy physics.
Don't get me wrong, I still love this episode. But the writers were
really pushing the "suspension of disbelief" for this one. Which makes
this discussion a bit moot, since KR's writers goofed so many technical
details -- very often.
Brian
Peter Apockotos
That is why I want Knight Rider to be more realistic and please do not let
Steve DeSouza or however you spell this guys name, touch the script
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JHen2000
>Bo Duke -- that is scary.
I beg to differ, the dumbest driver award has to go to Enos Strate.:)
Although his "hypotenuse" move is
pretty wicked! (Don't pop a blood vessel trying to figure that one out. Just
ask a regular viewer of DOH or
ENOS to clue you in)
TheHasselhoff
> Microlock Vipers power distribution net.
... And at the same time, the Defender fires a Static Pulse and renders KITT
inoperable. That's ONE move.
(And yes, KITT is vulnerable to EM pulses - even the TKR era vehicles were
not protected, and had to be modified to withstand the attacks.)
TheHasselhoff
Yes, and after the first hit, KITT always reports to Michael that another
hit would take him out.
TheHasselhoff
> Hello????
VIPER CAN BE REMOTE CONTROLLED!!!!! Kitt Can't!!!!
Hello????
It depends on who gets the first attack.
TheHasselhoff
> Just stating a fact -- The Viper was only destroyed once, by its own team
> to keep it falling into the wrong hands. KITT was destroyed 4 times --
> through various accidents.
Of course, it has been rendered useless about a half-dozen times, and needed
major repair to get back on the road.
>
> : Viper wouldn't survive a missile up the exhaust.
>
> I'd beg to differ. The Viper sustained nearly a dozen direct hits from
> missiles in the Season 1 episode "Thief of Hearts." The first missle hit
> the rear end, with Joe trying to avoid it. Then about 8 missiles pounded
> the vehicle from the front -- badly beaten, it drove on.
AND, it didn't get hit in the exhaust, so this argument doesn't work....
In real physics, if the two cars were to hit head-on, there is no way their
combined speeds would be enough for either to "smash through" the other. I
would bet that, although KITT would probably fair a bit better, both would
end up with their front-ends crumpled and their front wheels immobilized.
In TV physics, it depends on who's writing the episode....
TheHasselhoff
"ramming" attack, Michael was betting on the fact that the metal of KITT's
body, coated with the MBS, would be stronger than a tire/wheel on Goliath,
coated with the same substance. Theoretically, it could work - however,
Goliath was more manueverable than Michael and KITT thought it would be.
TheHasselhoff
Actually, since both Astor and Cole were better drivers than Michael, and
would NEVER try to ram a semi head-on, the Defender probably WOULD have
survived Goliath.
> And Viper wouldn't survive KITT.
Wow, what a really subjective observation. You probably think we still have
yet to get a "fair and accurate recount" in Florida, too, don't you?
March2875
March2875
March2875
never said that to he has been hit multiple times by these types. Remember the
Defender has never been hit with Missiles needing a semi to hold the launcher
that was the type Kitt said that. Handheld's like VIper was hit with Kitt has
been hit with multiple times as well.
March2875
There is no way to know what Cole or Joe would do in this situation cause they
have never been in it.
March2875
was fine after the Viper was damaged it was the other way around. The Defender
was damaged and Cole and Frankie went back to Viper mode and the car was
fine.Don't forget Meer bullets shread the Defender's armour as quoted by Allie.
Brian M Gajewski
: >The only dumber driver behind the wheel than Michael Knight was probably
Good call, I forgot about this one. Although, Roscoe was probably even
worse! I am an avid DOH fan myself -- I only wish I could find some
copies of ENOS or the DOH cartoon series (especially the Coy and Vance
cartoon episodes -- they would be funny!)
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: That's a bit harsh, Brian. Although most people would not consider the
That's true, I was pretty harsh -- but as KITT closed in, he mentioned to
Michael that Goliath also had the protective molecular bonded shell. At
that point, Michael should have backed down and gotten more
information. It was a huge tactical mistake to try to ram a vehicle with
the same armour, especially when its 20x larger. Not only that, but
Goliath was probably moving at 100 MPH and KITT 200 MPH -- Michael SHOULD
have died from that kind of impact.
Not only that, but Goliath had extra reinforced steel caging around its
front end -- probably to protect its engine from attack. Its steel bumper
also buffered the front end from its wheel. So attacking Goliath's wheel
would probably have been best to attack from the side, not head on. Which
makes the head-on ramming a poor tactical choice.
Still a good episode, but the writers should have studied up on some
tactical decisions as well as technical areas.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: > Just stating a fact -- The Viper was only destroyed once, by its own team
: > to keep it falling into the wrong hands. KITT was destroyed 4 times --
: > through various accidents.
: Of course, it has been rendered useless about a half-dozen times, and needed
: major repair to get back on the road.
It did take a beating in Thief of Hearts, Season 1. Julian's repairs were
mostly turning on its alterate power system -- all performed by the
Keyboard. The Viper got smacked around pretty hard in the Standoff --
this is the only time I remember the car out of commission, basically by a
dead battery and ECU for its supercharged V10 engine. As soon as the ECU
was replaced and charged up, the vehicle was fine. Plus, in Safe as
Houses, Season 1 -- an old Geezer broke a signature card. But, that was
just a stupid move by a old man trying to help.
: AND, it didn't get hit in the exhaust, so this argument doesn't work....
: In real physics, if the two cars were to hit head-on, there is no way their
: combined speeds would be enough for either to "smash through" the other. I
: would bet that, although KITT would probably fair a bit better, both would
: end up with their front-ends crumpled and their front wheels immobilized.
: In TV physics, it depends on who's writing the episode....
Good point -- The Defender does have some pretty wide dual exhaust square
exhaust panels that are below the rear weapons panel. At the Viper MADD
Dash, the Defender had Steel Mesh that covered both of these panels -- So
I'd think they thought about this scenario and protected it as much as
possible. I say the Viper is far less vulerable in this case because it
relies on a convetional internal combustion engine. A turbine's
exhaust normally runs straight back to its blade -- so its a straight path
normally for a missile to fly down. But exhaust systems tend to bend and
turn for combustion engines, because backpressure pushes exhaust gases out
and their is less heat to worry about. So a missile would have little
chance running through such an exhaust -- it would detroy the exhaust
system, but the internal combustion engine would still run (loud as hell
-- sound like a race car, they run very little exhaust systems with no
emissions). A turbine is far more dependant on a clear exhaust path -- if
it is obstructed, the tremendous heat would normally cause a fire. That's
probably why KITT was destroyed in Knight of the Drones, either that or
KITT was refusing to share any more screen time with the Barbarian
Brothers....
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: What proof do you have that Joe and Cole are better drivers than Michael?
Let's see -- Joe has been driving since he was 13 as a getaway driver
(that's 20 years of experience of just DRIVING -- he was in his mid-30s
during season 1).
Also Cole was an Evasive Driving Instructor for the CIA. As Frankie
states in "Breakdown on Thunder Road." Cole is considered one of the best
drivers in the world -- according to the season two press kit, he even
drove for the presidental motorcade for several years.
Michael was an Ex-Cop. Uh? That's usually good experience, but compared
to both Cole and Astor who had decades of driving experience -- I'd say
Knight would be at a serious disadvantage.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: yeah but Viper can't use its Pulse with its pods Microjammed shut.
But once again -- I'm not sure how effective Microjam would be on the
Viper. MicroJam is based on Science Fiction, the Viper's technologies
including its Morph and Static Pulse are based on military and law
enforcement technologies currently in use (however, current 'Morph'
technology is far less sophisticated than depicted on the show -- that's
why they set it in 'the near future.')
How does Microjam work? How can KITT control how dice land in a Casino
hundreds of feet away? How can KITT unlock handcuffs without touching
them? Its called science fiction.
In your above argument, you're also assuming that the weapon bays would
be closed in a confrontation. But when Cole or Astor switched to Defender
mode, they were usually expecting trouble and quickly open the weapon
pods.
Brian
Scott Holder
"Brian M Gajewski" <bmg9...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote in message
news:90drq8$mp$2...@news.cc.ucf.edu...
> TheHasselhoff (JGi...@cfl.rr.com) wrote:
> : That's a bit harsh, Brian. Although most people would not consider the
> Michael that Goliath also had the protective molecular bonded shell. At
> that point, Michael should have backed down and gotten more
> information. It was a huge tactical mistake to try to ram a vehicle with
> the same armour, especially when its 20x larger. Not only that, but
> Goliath was probably moving at 100 MPH and KITT 200 MPH -- Michael SHOULD
> have died from that kind of impact.
>
> Not only that, but Goliath had extra reinforced steel caging around its
> front end -- probably to protect its engine from attack. Its steel bumper
> also buffered the front end from its wheel. So attacking Goliath's wheel
> would probably have been best to attack from the side, not head on. Which
> makes the head-on ramming a poor tactical choice.
>
> Still a good episode, but the writers should have studied up on some
> tactical decisions as well as technical areas.
>
> Brian
>
I'd always looked at it like Michael was going to try to duck to the left
and back into the right, into the wheel, but mistimed it and got clipped.
That's why the front right was damaged, not like it was a direct head-on
hit.
Scott Holder
March2875
Sci Fi doesn't matter we are comparing Kitt to Viper not reality to make
believe.
Doug Donnelly
> Good call, I forgot about this one. Although, Roscoe was probably even
> worse! I am an avid DOH fan myself -- I only wish I could find some
> copies of ENOS or the DOH cartoon series (especially the Coy and Vance
> cartoon episodes -- they would be funny!)
>
> Brian
Coy and Vance cartoon episodes? You kidding? I didn't think the cartoon was on
that long.
Whatever became of those two anyway? One rumor on a radio show, the actor who
played Vance had facial surgery and became J. Eddie Peck.
Hey, in the new Knight Rider movie, something exciting would be if Michael and
KITT were on their way to save the day, and had to Turbo Boost over the General
Lee to get there, and KITT says, "If there's anything I hate, then country boys
playing in the streets."
Maybe KARR could be inside a VIPER.
Brian M Gajewski
: Kitt could ram them off, or force them back shut by tapping into it. Besides
: Sci Fi doesn't matter we are comparing Kitt to Viper not reality to make
: believe.
But if reality is violated on a weekly basis on Knight Rider -- then what
is the basis on a such a discussion? Airwolf and Viper are more realistic
-- but KR relies heavily on fantasy to make its show work, kind of like
how Disney relies of fantasy to make Herbie, The Love Bug work.
Knight Rider relies a lot more on Fantasy because they simply can't
explain certain areas -- for example:
How can a 6 foot tall, 200 lbs man survive an 80 foot fall by simply
landing in the driver seat?
How can KITT make dice fall a certain way hundreds of feet away from the
Casino?
How can Michael build a ramjet, when such a concept requires air forced to
mix with fuel to be traveling at supersonic speeds to function?
How can KITT diffuse a bomb explosion by driving over the bomb (the trunk
idea makes some sence) when it explodes? The force of the bomb should
throw the 3500 lbs. of KITT into the air.
Or explain Super Pursuit -- by adding spoilers (which are designed
primarily for downforce and tend to slow down a vehicle) and ruining the
teardrop shape of the aerodynamically slick Trans Am to "give the vehicle
a 40% improvement in speed?" If KITT was capable of 300 MPH in season 1
& 2, a 40% improvement in speed should make him capable of around 400
MPH! What a joke.
I'll admit the physics of the Viper/Defender stretch the imagination a
bit. But the physics of Super Pursuit and Convertible Mode co-existing
are beyond belief.
That's why I think the argument is a bit moot, because there are far less
technical problems/questions facing Viper or Airwolf (than Knight Rider).
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: that long.
No, I'm not. The Cartoon show was on for 2 seasons and one of them were
the Coy and Vance years!
: Whatever became of those two anyway? One rumor on a radio show, the actor who
: played Vance had facial surgery and became J. Eddie Peck.
They still act. They were both on the cover of Mopar Collectors Guide
with the General Lee when "Hazzard in Hollywood" came out.
: Hey, in the new Knight Rider movie, something exciting would be if Michael and
: KITT were on their way to save the day, and had to Turbo Boost over the General
: Lee to get there, and KITT says, "If there's anything I hate, then country boys
: playing in the streets."
I think this would be cool.
But somehow, I think KR would try to distance themselves from DOH.
Brian
Mclain
I only agree half ways. Viper is more realistic and maybe possible in "the
near future". That doesn't make Knight Rider less cool. But you said airwolf
and viper are more realistic. That's where i disagree. Viper, ok that could
be done. But airowolf no way. By instant, the "turbo"froim airwolf, isn't
possible. A hellicopter doesn't work that way. It would only make it
impossible to handle, and even brake in half or rip off the blades. And
about the weapons, hellfire are a little bigger, and would fit that easy on
a hellicopter. And there was one serie where airwolf is going very very very
high, higher then a F-16 or any other airplane could go. That's a little to
far to fetch. But still a very cool serie though.
But to give comment to the original post(viper vs Kitt). I think it would be
a tough fight, and they would both get severly damaged. But then maybe the
defender could morph to the RT10 and then he would cross the finisch. Butt
Kitt could also destroy the viper completly. But what if it wasn't Viper vs
KITT, but Viper And KITT. That would be awesome. Working as a team that
really would be onstopable. That would be great.
We'll got to go, and don't judge me on my bad englisch
See ya
Brian M Gajewski
: I only agree half ways. Viper is more realistic and maybe possible in "the
: near future". That doesn't make Knight Rider less cool.
I never said it did make any of the three (Airwolf, Viper or Knight Rider
less cool). I do find that these 3 shows had many similarities: the
sci-fi element, 4 season runs by all 3 and a maverick leading actor (yeah,
that Barry Van Dyke kicked ash).
: But you said airwolf and viper are more realistic. That's where i
: disagree. Viper, ok that could be done. But airowolf no way.
I disagree. Both the Defender and Airwolf are loosely based on military
vehicles that have been developed. The Blue Thunder movie opens with "All
technology depicted in this film is currently in use worldwide."
: By instant, the "turbo"froim airwolf, isn't
: possible. A hellicopter doesn't work that way.
Not true. Most current helicopters employ turbines for forward motion --
so of the newer aircraft is capable of 250-300 miles per hour (see the
progress made by the Europeans for example). To reiterate, the 1982 film
Blue Thunder had a "Turbine Boost" which translated to roughly 120%
forward turbine thrust. The Giselle helicopters used for that film were
capable of 200 mph.
: It would only make it impossible to handle, and even brake in half or
: rip off the blades.
Once again, I think all sci-fi shows exagerate a bit. I don't actually
believe a helicopter can fly at Mach 1 like depicted in Airwolf -- but as
I mentioned earlier, some of the newer European military helicopters of
capable of nearly half that speed. So progress is being made.
: high, higher then a F-16 or any other airplane could go. That's a little to
: far to fetch. But still a very cool serie though.
If the aircraft was designed for high altitude abilities, then its not
that far fetched. But, I don't think the writers on Airwolf exagerated
nearly as much as say Knight Rider or Street Hawk (300 Mph on a Motorcycle
in Los Angeles Traffic.... Sheesh).
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
SouthPeak is a small company. I played the first one on PC -- I hope they
release the sequel on PC eventually (I don't own a PSX).
I thought they were pretty good games for Dukes fans. It had better
graphics than the Atari 2600 (proto) and ColecoVision versions anyway!
Brian
Brian M Gajewski (bmg9...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu) wrote:
: : Coy and Vance cartoon episodes? You kidding? I didn't think the cartoon was on
TheHasselhoff
> impossible to handle, and even brake in half or rip off the blades.
1) The rotors were completely disengaged from actually navigating Airwolf
once the TurboThrusters were enabled; it would not be impossible to build
rotors that could handle Mach 1+ speeds.
2) Considering Popular Mechanics just found out that the government has had
a nuclear-powered flying saucer since the 1950's, I think they could have
come up with this by now.
> about the weapons, hellfire are a little bigger, and would fit that easy
on
> a hellicopter.
Valid point; the only explanation is that Dr. Moffett and the Airwolf design
team called their new weapon a HellFire, in spirit of the standard-issue
weapon.
> And there was one serie where airwolf is going very very very
> high, higher then a F-16 or any other airplane could go. That's a little
to
> far to fetch.
Airwolf always hit a roof of 40,000 feet; that's not incredibly high. The
Lady took it upon herself to go a little higher in "Moffett's Ghost", but at
the cost of straining and damaging many components.
JHen2000
>SouthPeak is a small company.
I guess they got what they wanted as
they both are on the DOH PSX sequel. Anyone get it yet?
Brian M Gajewski
: >I think Catherine Bach and John Schneider both wanted too much money.
: >SouthPeak is a small company.
: I guess they got what they wanted as
: they both are on the DOH PSX sequel. Anyone get it yet?
Really? That's cool.... Now I guess I'll have to rent a PSX system and
that game to see what its like. Pretty cool, Ertl just released a 1/18
scale General Lee.
The new General Lee die-cast car isn't terribly accurate (no CB Antenna,
Black Interior when should be Tan, A Four Speed Pistol Grip manual when
the General was usually depicted with a Console Shifted TorqueFlite Auto)
but it still looks good sitting on my desk.
I already went to Ertl and begged them for a Knight Rider replica.
They've never made a 3rd Gen F-Body for their 1/18 diecast cars,
I think its about time they started.
Brian
jup
Except for several wildcards, KITT would win the match-up, hands down.
The Viper Defender has way too many exposed parts and remote access
weaknesses, making it very easy to destroy when KITT can get into the works
and start detecting them.
The A-Number 1 weak point in the Viper...it's assault weapon ports.
The very second these pop out, KITT can have a direct line of fire with the
laser pack to turn the tiny warheads contained in these things into a firey
explosion that will take out the Defender's doors, walls, and the
driver/passenger compartment.
Number 2 weak point is the flipping armor that exposes the engine
compartment with remote switching feature. If KITT gets a direct shot with
the laser into the engine, the Viper and it's human passengers are dead
faster then they can say "Oh..." If KITT locks on to the converting
frequency and/or code, he could have that armor flipping like it was trying
to message in Moris Code.
Number 3 weak point...The armor, itself. There is no doubt in my mind that
KITT's MBS is stronger than any of Defender's moving armor pieces.
Basically, KITT could do to the Defender what the Juggernaut did to KITT.
*Slam.* *Bam.* *Smash.* *Crunch.* Defender dead.
As for the wildcards...
All the Knight Industries vehicles have a rather sad flaw in them. They rely
upon their visual sense first and the rest of their sensor array upon
request. So, the Viper Defender's holoprojection system could easily fool
KITT into chasing a false Defender...one or two times. (Until KITT starts
using another sensor to detect no mass to the image.) But, this diversion
can lead to wildcard two...
Letting KITT expose a weak area (like the tailpipe) to incoming Defender
missile fire. The Viper Defender would win if they managed to locate a weak
spot in KITT and act upon it or managed to flip KITT over. (Even an
invulnerable Turtle is helpless when flipped upon it's back.)
Wildcard three lays in the fact that we really don't know how KITT will
react to a static pulse. KITT has always remained vulnerable (but not
defeatable) to rogue electricity. Would KITT shut down, short circuit, or
just absorb it? We really don't know.
Mclain <gt.t...@home.nl> wrote in message
news:902dlm$2bk3$2...@buty.wanadoo.nl...
> I was wondering who would win. I presume you all are familiar with the
> series Viper. Who would win this match. Viper Or Kitt. I mean, Viper is
also
> a super Car. But it doesnt have a mind on it's own.
>
> Before i forget, does anyone know if the series Knight Rider is being
> broadcast on any channels in The Netherlands.
>
> See Yah,
>
> Mclain
>
>
>
>
jup
> less vulernable than you make it out to be.
And, yet, when the multiple new series Viper Defenders arrived after the
destruction of the original, the trainee drivers managed to destroy all but
one of them on the *Training Course.*
===
Brian M Gajewski <bmg9...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote in message
news:905qo0$fan$1...@news.cc.ucf.edu...
> Nee716 (nee...@aol.com) wrote:
> : I would say it is a toss up. But I think it would be a tough fight but
KITT
> : would pull through. The Vipers armor plating is coated like a clear
coat if u
> : will. KITTs was bonded into the metal. KITT could probably ram the
Viper a
> : few times and crush it because of the second season of Viper, I forgot
the
> : episode. There was an android going around and smacked the "Defenders"
window
> : like 4 r 5 times and smashed it and Frankie was saying the vipers armor
coating
> : cant take anymore beating.
> : I was also upset when Viper made a stupid reference to Knight Rider.
>
> Let's see KITT was completely DESTROYED in 4 episodes in the Original
> Series 4 season run.
>
> The Viper was destoyed only once in 4 seasons -- I'd say the Viper is far
> less vulernable than you make it out to be.
>
> Don't forget, The Viper has an arsenal of weapons including .50 caliber
> machine guns, static pulse, lasers, spider bombs and more. This is a moot
> point on a KR newsgroup anyway -- Bias will come through. Besides, we had
> this discussion already.
>
> Brian
jup
Cole (or whoever) sees KITT and switches to Defender mode.
KITT locks into the Viper/Defender's remote conversion mode frequency and
tells the Viper to convert back to Viper mode.
Stalemate is more appropriate, rather than Checkmate. Since KITT can't harm
another living being and Cole can't get the weapon's pods to retract in
Viper mode.
Brian M Gajewski <bmg9...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote in message
news:90dtck$u5$3...@news.cc.ucf.edu...
Brian M Gajewski
: weaknesses, making it very easy to destroy when KITT can get into the works
: and start detecting them.
What exposed parts? The brake calipers? Or the weapons pod? Give me a
break -- what is KITT going to do: "If were quick enough, maybe we can
take out his right front tire."
KITT had a laser in like 4 episodes. The other 86 or so episodes, he let
the advisory crash into buildings (the Juggernaut anyone) because he had
no OFFENSIVE weapons. Come on, KITT got destroyed by a fairly stock Ford
Thunderbird! The Defender would shread him. The Jugernaut wasn't even
beaten by KITT, the dumb driver crashed it. WEAK...
: The A-Number 1 weak point in the Viper...it's assault weapon ports.
Yeah, while the Defender is miles away -- its Probe is burning holes
through KITT with its laser. Or the Defender uses in payload of 22
guided missiles to trash KITT from a 1/2 mile away.
: The very second these pop out, KITT can have a direct line of fire with the
: laser pack to turn the tiny warheads contained in these things into a firey
Now you are making stuff up as you go along!
Warheads in the Viper? What are you smoking -- the Defender is powered by
a Supercharged Dodge Aluminum V10 Engine, sorry no nuclear power plant
included!
: If KITT gets a direct shot with the laser into the engine, the Viper and
: it's human passengers are dead
Oh, you mean the laser KITT had in 4 episodes -- or the one he DIDN'T have
in the other 86. Next you'll tell me about Hydrofoil mode (used once) or
R/C's offroad tires (used once)!
: Number 3 weak point...The armor, itself. There is no doubt in my mind that
: KITT's MBS is stronger than any of Defender's moving armor pieces.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Defender's armor is stronger than
KITT's MBS. Who made you an expert? Who made me? To reiterate, KITT was
destroyed by a fairly stock Ford Thunderbird -- I'd say that's a pretty
weak opponent to get destroyed by. My whole point, we simply don't
know. My other point is: whoever wrote such a matchup would control the
outcome.
: All the Knight Industries vehicles have a rather sad flaw in them. They rely
: upon their visual sense first and the rest of their sensor array upon
: request. So, the Viper Defender's holoprojection system could easily fool
: KITT into chasing a false Defender...one or two times. (Until KITT starts
: using another sensor to detect no mass to the image.) But, this diversion
: can lead to wildcard two...
KITT was a bit inconsistant in his capabilities (that's why some of the
'Did you ever notice lists are so funny.') In the entire run of the
Viper, they never once mentioned a weak spot -- I suspect Jullian shielded
the vehicle pretty evenly (he was a genius and all). So I guess KITT
would just pick a spot, start ramming and hope for the best. The only
problem is with Astor or Cole behind the wheel, the Viper would be a
difficult target to hit -- That's always been my point.
: Letting KITT expose a weak area (like the tailpipe) to incoming Defender
: missile fire. The Viper Defender would win if they managed to locate a weak
: spot in KITT and act upon it or managed to flip KITT over. (Even an
: invulnerable Turtle is helpless when flipped upon it's back.)
I'd suspect both Cole and Astor would attempt to use the static
pulse. Unless KITT was specially rigged to defeat such a system, he would
shut down.
: Wildcard three lays in the fact that we really don't know how KITT will
: react to a static pulse. KITT has always remained vulnerable (but not
: defeatable) to rogue electricity. Would KITT shut down, short circuit, or
: just absorb it? We really don't know.
KITT would shut down. The static pulse pops fusible links and other
misc. condiut. The California Highway Control (among other law
enforcement agencies) current use the static pulse to stop criminals in
hot pursuit.
Brian
jup
> March2875 (marc...@aol.com) wrote:
> How can a 6 foot tall, 200 lbs man survive an 80 foot fall by simply
> landing in the driver seat?
===
Granted. There is no stunt person alive that would be willing to try pulling
that one off. Even if it was 100% possible to safely jump through this tiny
square without tearing yourself apart on one of the sides AND to hold a
perfect seating position while in mid-air, how would a seat that barely
lifts up one foot really stop your decent without causing major injuries.
(At least TKR's Attack Beast had a somewhat small airbag that could inflate
in the bed.)
===
> How can KITT make dice fall a certain way hundreds of feet away from the
> Casino?
===
I've always considered that one of Knight Rider's worst effects. What they
should have done is taken the time to roll, roll, roll until the dice came
up with the numbers they wanted and said that KITT was controlling the
physics of the rolling dice. But, no. They had to take a shortcut and use
that horrible star wipe effect to cover up when they moved the dice to
display the correct numbers. How long would it really have taken to randomly
roll the correct numbers, anyhow? Five? Ten minutes? Waiting would have been
the better choice for the scene.
===
> How can Michael build a ramjet, when such a concept requires air forced to
> mix with fuel to be traveling at supersonic speeds to function?
===
KITT's engine (story wise) is turbine driven. During normal driving, all
power is used to drive the wheels. When extra speed is required, some of the
air flow power created by the turbine engine is pushed through aft thrust
ports to give KITT quite a speed boost. The idea of the ramjet in that scene
of Goliath was basically permitting all the force of the turbine's force to
go into the aft thrusters and bypass the wheel drive system, altogether.
Now, why there was sufficient force to push KITT along through the thruster
ports and not enough to drive the wheels, I don't know. After all, Michael
mentions that most of the turbine blades were toast.
===
> How can KITT diffuse a bomb explosion by driving over the bomb (the trunk
> idea makes some sence) when it explodes? The force of the bomb should
> throw the 3500 lbs. of KITT into the air.
===
True. I always accepted that everyone overreacted to the strength of the
explosive devices and KITT just got lucky.
And, I always found the idea of blowing bombs up in KITT's trunk even harder
to believe than from underneith. Sure, the outer shell is suppose to hold
together from the force of the impact. But, why should the upholstery have
anywhere near the same strength? And, even if the MBS formula could be
combined with and just as effective as fabric, how come we didn't see
Superman-like acts of bullets bouncing off of Michael Knight's chest? Was
his one set of clothing not worthy of this super-armor formula?
===
> Or explain Super Pursuit -- by adding spoilers (which are designed
> primarily for downforce and tend to slow down a vehicle) and ruining the
> teardrop shape of the aerodynamically slick Trans Am to "give the vehicle
> a 40% improvement in speed?" If KITT was capable of 300 MPH in season 1
> & 2, a 40% improvement in speed should make him capable of around 400
> MPH! What a joke.
===
Agreed. Super Pursuit Mode was one big, expensive joke. I won't even try to
defend or explain that one.
===
March2875
and imune in a matter of hours
Scott Holder
> : The very second these pop out, KITT can have a direct line of fire with
the
> : laser pack to turn the tiny warheads contained in these things into a
firey
>
> Now you are making stuff up as you go along!
> Warheads in the Viper? What are you smoking -- the Defender is powered by
> a Supercharged Dodge Aluminum V10 Engine, sorry no nuclear power plant
> included!
A missile without a warhead is not much more than a rocket-powered spear.
Scot Holder
jup
> Mclain (gt.t...@home.nl) wrote:
> If the aircraft was designed for high altitude abilities, then its not
> that far fetched. But, I don't think the writers on Airwolf exagerated
> nearly as much as say Knight Rider or Street Hawk (300 Mph on a Motorcycle
> in Los Angeles Traffic.... Sheesh).
>
> Brian
That's where the hidden ability of Super Pursuit Mode comes in. When Michael
and KITT are going 300 MPH and suddenly encounter rush hour traffic, Michael
could press the Turbo Boost and KITT could make a five mile long turbo jump
to clear all the traffic. :)
j/k. But, it would have been a better excuse for this expensive prop than
just making KITT pull off 90 degree mock 1 turns without doing a mile long
circle.
jup
> It doesn't need to: The Viper's drivers weren't mentally challenged.
> Where David Hasselhoff needed all the help he could get!
> The only dumber driver behind the wheel than Michael Knight was probably
> Bo Duke -- that is scary.
ROTFLMAF.
===
> Example: Goliath
>
> "If we're quick enough -- we can take out his right front tire."
>
> Earth to Michael Knight: That Semi weighs 25 more tons than your
> vehicle.
===
To be fair, the idea about using KITT's shape to take Goliath out isn't so
far fetched. As proved time and time again in that robot war match-up event,
a small, wedged-shaped bot with lots of thick armor on wheels can tip over
and disarm much larger bots with far more threatening items at it's
disposal. And, if KITT's hood was alot lower, KITT's shape would have tipped
Goliath on it's side. Instead, KITT rode too high...hood met grill...and
durable mass won the battle.
As for the ramjet idea, Michael simply (or, maybe not so easily) redirected
all of the turbo engine's air flow towards the aft turbo ports. (Which is
what gave KITT those imaginary 0 to 100 MPH speeds within a heartbeat.)
jup
Let's see...
The last major job that Michael Long had was as a cop.
But, earlier events in his life included a tour of combat service in a war
that caused a head injury and some sort of job that required him to become a
grade-A stunt driver for some unstated reason and amount of time.
Just when you think you have him in trouble, he shows off a new trick.
TheHasselhoff
redirected
> all of the turbo engine's air flow towards the aft turbo ports. (Which is
> what gave KITT those imaginary 0 to 100 MPH speeds within a heartbeat.)
But there were no turbine blades... so there was NO airflow. Michael was
right: without blades, the turbine could only function as a ramjet.
However, a ramjet only works when the turbine is already moving at high
speeds (which is why they are used on the upper stages of rockets, but not
on aircraft).
TheHasselhoff
It's very simple, actually: if the Defender gets a Static Pulse burst off
first, KITT is down. If KITT can microlock the correct systems in the
Defender first, the Viper is down.
I am looking at this from the standpoint of what each of the pilots of the
cars would normally use to incapacitate an opponent. Michael usually went
for the microwave jammer, Joe/Cole used the Static Pulse. In other words,
this is a confrontation that is steeped in continuity, not "KITT would smash
through the Viper, even though he never does this in any episode" or
"Defender would fire some rockets, even though that's always their last
resort in order to save lives".
So, it all comes down to who has a faster trigger finger....
March2875
Scott Holder
news:MgfX5.7714$58.8...@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Missiles as well :)
It's a lot more believable than Michael removing the turbines, hammering
them back into shape, rebuilding the engine, and then driving out :) Even if
the whole concept isn't physically sound. It sounds spiffy at least :)
Scott Holder
Scott Holder
> : Missiles as well :)
>
> : It's a lot more believable than Michael removing the turbines, hammering
> : them back into shape, rebuilding the engine, and then driving out :)
Even if
> : the whole concept isn't physically sound. It sounds spiffy at least :)
>
> glove compartment and removing the Emergency Diagram and a Mobile
> Telephone to call for the F.L.A.G. semi for help. I find it sad that an
> operative for a 'law and government' agency was so ill-equipped for
> emergencies. Michael Knight was even a Vietnam vet, he should have also
> been trained in survival techniques that could have easily got him out of
> the desert (getting water from rocks, stuff like that) -- without defying
> the laws of physics.
>
> Hello?
Hi there! :)
I didn't say it was the most believable thing, just more believable than a
few alternatives :) Naturally it was a somewhat silly solution, but going
back to the Vietnam thing, I'd bet that quite a few people dragged their
wounded buddies out of the jungle at their own risk, which you could sorta
apply to this situation. Yeah, still stilly, but oh well.
Scott Holder
Brian M Gajewski
: It's a lot more believable than Michael removing the turbines, hammering
: them back into shape, rebuilding the engine, and then driving out :) Even if
: the whole concept isn't physically sound. It sounds spiffy at least :)
So defying physics is more believable than say -- Michael going into the
glove compartment and removing the Emergency Diagram and a Mobile
Telephone to call for the F.L.A.G. semi for help. I find it sad that an
operative for a 'law and government' agency was so ill-equipped for
emergencies. Michael Knight was even a Vietnam vet, he should have also
been trained in survival techniques that could have easily got him out of
the desert (getting water from rocks, stuff like that) -- without defying
the laws of physics.
Hello?
Brian
BK Automotive
the actors shallow, and the effects are just funny to anyone over the age of 10
(give or take) but to me now, thats what makes the show so much fun.
TheHasselhoff
> them back into shape, rebuilding the engine, and then driving out :) Even
if
> the whole concept isn't physically sound. It sounds spiffy at least :)
Sorry, but it is MUCH more believable that Michael took out the ESB, and had
KITT walk him through getting the turbine blades back into a usable
condition again, then changing Newton's Laws of Physics.
jup
If I had written this scene, I would more likely have gone with a more
realistic (but boring) escape by having Michael establish a comm link with
the semi. Then, they would have brought in a helicopter to air lift KITT out
of the desert. Or, at the very least, have said that the impact with Goliath
just broke KITT's drive shaft and left the turbine blades intact. Then, KITT
could coast (something similar to what he did) out of the desert on pure
turbo thrust.
On a side thought, the cast/crew/writers must also have thought the whole
idea behind the scene rather silly. Because, they placed an old man (out in
the middle of a big, empty desert) standing in the path of KITT and KITT
almost runs him down.
(Now, before this message gets replies like..."What are you talking about,
you cross-eyed Nerd. There was no old man in that scene..." ...I'll divert
such posts by adding the fact that in the syndicate runs, way too many
scenes were lost in the pursuit of finding space for more advertising. And,
this was just one of many scenes lost from Goliath, after it's debut run on
NBC.)
Tall Pod
>(Now, before this message gets replies like..."What are you talking about,
>you cross-eyed Nerd. There was no old man in that scene..." ...I'll divert
>such posts by adding the fact that in the syndicate runs, way too many
>scenes were lost in the pursuit of finding space for more advertising. And,
>this was just one of many scenes lost from Goliath, after it's debut run on
>NBC.)
>
It's in the Columbia House Tape :-)
Scott Holder
news:20001207162102...@nso-mj.aol.com...
Dang, I need to subscribe to that. $20 a tape seems a bit much, but I'm a
little too goody-two-shoes to ask for copies from people I know who have
them :)
Scott Holder
jup
> : The Viper Defender has way too many exposed parts and remote access
> : weaknesses, making it very easy to destroy when KITT can get into the
works
> : and start detecting them.
>
> What exposed parts? The brake calipers? Or the weapons pod? Give me a
> take out his right front tire."
I'm mainly talking about the three seconds it takes to switch from the Viper
to the Defender mode that KITT could take advantage of. And, yet again, to
mention the remote control factor that KITT might (granted, that is one hugh
might I'm using for an example here) be able to tap into and disarm all the
Defender's systems with.
But, I still say those duel weapons pods are a hugh weakness in the
Defender's scheme. The little warhead-equipped rockets (or whatever they
really should be called) fly right out of a straight tube in both of the
weapon pods. Since KITT could hit a coin sized flaw in a moving Goliath, why
should a larger sized tube be much harder to hit into? Because, it is lower
to the ground, or something?
Additional:
Dang, nabbit. I just reasoned myself right out of using the laser as a
weapon and right into throwing the rule book in. Turns out that KITT lost
the laser in either 'KITT vs. KARR' (when KARR steals the modified laser
pack, and then gets it destroyed along with most everything else) or, if it
somehow survives that, it turns into technilogically dissolved goo (along
with everything else) when KITT is transformed into bones in 'Junkyard Dog'.
BUT!!!
We really start getting into some technically complicated areas, here.
When KITT meets up with the Viper Defender to do this battle, what year is
it? (And, for that fact, is it even possible, since you want to follow the
story plots.) I don't recall all the figures, off hand, but KITT was retired
some time during the early 1990's...probably right after Michael retired.
Then, on 9/14/1994, work on the Knight Reformulation One vehicle was
completed to replace KITT. But, KRO was flawed and deactivated within a
three month time period. But, the fact of how the Foundation built KRO
proves that FLAG had decided that times had changed and was now giving their
operatives the offensive stance. Which begs the question if KITT really
remained unarmed throughout his original existance. Just because KITT was
unarmed in 1985(86?) doesn't mean he didn't gain a few deadly options since
then. Who knows what devices Bonnie might have thrown in over the years?
And, I'm almost forgetting the fact that KITT's brain gets circulated around
abit before the year 2000.
One thing I don't know is the years that the Viper Defender was set in.
(But, I get the impression that KITT was torn down and sold for parts before
that time even occurs. All thanks to Russell Maddock.) So, unless you want
to throw the Viper Defender into a time warp to challenge the 1985(6?)
version of KITT, it becomes a little hard to tell what KITT can do by the
time the Viper comes around.
Then, there is that annoying little fact that KITT can't intentionally cause
harm to a living being.
KITT shouldn't permit himself to risk harming anyone inside the Defender, so
he couldn't attack. Of course, Michael could always shut KITT's access off
to go around that limitation. Or, the Defender could be driven by remote.
Or, the 'no harming a living being' rule could have been removed by the time
KITT ages enough to challenge Defender. Or, a number of other things could
be done.
Of course, if Bonnie was still taking care of KITT, she probably would have
the perfect upgrade thingie that could defeat the Defender, ready to install
and just in time. (Whatever that might be.)
But then, Frankie would do the same for the Viper Defender.
===
> KITT had a laser in like 4 episodes. The other 86 or so episodes, he let
> the advisory crash into buildings (the Juggernaut anyone) because he had
> no OFFENSIVE weapons.
===
See above.
===
> Come on, KITT got destroyed by a fairly stock Ford
> Thunderbird! The Defender would shread him. The Jugernaut wasn't even
> beaten by KITT, the dumb driver crashed it. WEAK...
===
Like you said. KITT was un-armed at the time.
===
>
> : The A-Number 1 weak point in the Viper...it's assault weapon ports.
>
> Yeah, while the Defender is miles away -- its Probe is burning holes
> through KITT with its laser.
===
Yea, right. KITT would microjam that probe seconds after it's attempt to sun
tan Michael. KITT's own laser pack couldn't even penetrate an MBS coated
surface, except for the scanner port. (And, I know they didn't bother to
think about the driver in that example. Even though KARR tried and got the
reflective shot treatment.) So, what hope does that little spy floater have?
Hummmmmmnnnnn??????
===
> Or the Defender uses in payload of 22
> guided missiles to trash KITT from a 1/2 mile away.
===
Michael and KITT dodging incoming missiles from a 1/2 mile away...sounds
like just another day at the office for them to me.
Plato: "Let's do the time warp."
Trek: "It's just a move to the left..."
===
> : The very second these pop out, KITT can have a direct line of fire with
the
> : laser pack to turn the tiny warheads contained in these things into a
firey
>
> Now you are making stuff up as you go along!
> Warheads in the Viper? What are you smoking -- the Defender is powered by
> a Supercharged Dodge Aluminum V10 Engine, sorry no nuclear power plant
> included!
===
Sorry I don't know what exactly to call them. It's those little things that
come out of the weapon pod's tubes that, when they meet up with something
physically hard, they explode like all Hell just broke loose.
Though, now that I've reasoned out that KITT lost the laser in season 3, I'm
not sure what he'd use to cause early detonation of the explosives inside
the weapon pods. (That would require knowing what KITT has gained in the
time period between 1986 and Viper's time.)
===
> : If KITT gets a direct shot with the laser into the engine, the Viper and
> : it's human passengers are dead
>
> Oh, you mean the laser KITT had in 4 episodes -- or the one he DIDN'T have
> in the other 86.
===
True. True. The Viper Defender would have to go to the year 1984 to be
challenged by the laser weilding KITT. I appologize on that one.
Instead, let's have KITT equipped with long range flying smart mines and
twin phaser arrays located within his pop-up headlamps...j/k. I'd need to
know what Bonnie installed before knowing what KITT really had as options to
use against the Defender.
===
> Next you'll tell me about Hydrofoil mode (used once) or
> R/C's offroad tires (used once)
===
Ah, yes. That April really knew how to make those tests that could cost
Knight Industries to lose their one and only real reason to exist. The
theory behind the Hydrofoil mode was that the turbine engine produced so
much air that it could be evenly pushed through both the back, sides, and
base of KITT while the tires constantly skimmed across the water like a well
thrown rock of the right proportions. (Hey. At least it was a lot better
than the KIFT boat mode that really did sink.)
As for RC III's little spiked tires, I say "Whatever." If Defender's tires
can balloon up to deal with off-road conditions, then KITT's tires can
become solid chunks of technology that can extend and retract steel nail
tread.
===
> : Number 3 weak point...The armor, itself. There is no doubt in my mind
that
> : KITT's MBS is stronger than any of Defender's moving armor pieces.
>
> There is no doubt in my mind that the Defender's armor is stronger than
> KITT's MBS. Who made you an expert? Who made me? To reiterate, KITT was
> destroyed by a fairly stock Ford Thunderbird -- I'd say that's a pretty
> weak opponent to get destroyed by. My whole point, we simply don't
> know. My other point is: whoever wrote such a matchup would control the
> outcome.
===
Hang on a moment. If I'm recalling right, these almost stock Fart Thundertur
ds were from 'Knight of the Drones.' And, the only thing they had were a
couple guided missiles that locked on to a target moving in a straight line.
IF KITT had just done a 180 and rammed the piece of remote controlled junk
in the first place, we could have been spared the heart touching "Bonnie. Is
that you. It's so dark here. Is it night?" crap and just had Michael kick
a$$ against that dorky professor.
===
> : All the Knight Industries vehicles have a rather sad flaw in them. They
rely
> : upon their visual sense first and the rest of their sensor array upon
> : request. So, the Viper Defender's holoprojection system could easily
fool
> : KITT into chasing a false Defender...one or two times. (Until KITT
starts
> : using another sensor to detect no mass to the image.) But, this
diversion
> : can lead to wildcard two...
>
> KITT was a bit inconsistant in his capabilities (that's why some of the
> 'Did you ever notice lists are so funny.') In the entire run of the
> Viper, they never once mentioned a weak spot -- I suspect Jullian shielded
> the vehicle pretty evenly (he was a genius and all). So I guess KITT
> would just pick a spot, start ramming and hope for the best. The only
> problem is with Astor or Cole behind the wheel, the Viper would be a
> difficult target to hit -- That's always been my point.
===
Agreed.
===
> : Letting KITT expose a weak area (like the tailpipe) to incoming Defender
> : missile fire. The Viper Defender would win if they managed to locate a
weak
> : spot in KITT and act upon it or managed to flip KITT over. (Even an
> : invulnerable Turtle is helpless when flipped upon it's back.)
>
> I'd suspect both Cole and Astor would attempt to use the static
> pulse. Unless KITT was specially rigged to defeat such a system, he would
> shut down.
===
I think it was 'Lost Knight' that tests KITT's resistance to electricity.
And, if high tension power wires that even gave Michael that electric chair
feeling (even though he was suppose to be insulated) couldn't shut KITT
down, I really don't see what a static pulse stands a chance of doing. I
also recall, but am not sure, that Bonnie mentions adding counter-electrical
measures to KITT after that problem situation occurred.
===
> : Wildcard three lays in the fact that we really don't know how KITT will
> : react to a static pulse. KITT has always remained vulnerable (but not
> : defeatable) to rogue electricity. Would KITT shut down, short circuit,
or
> : just absorb it? We really don't know.
>
> KITT would shut down. The static pulse pops fusible links and other
> misc. condiut. The California Highway Control (among other law
> enforcement agencies) current use the static pulse to stop criminals in
> hot pursuit.
===
Like above, I don't really know what the Defender's static pulse packs that
high tension power wires supplying a small city with power doesn't, times a
factor of (??)? It must be able to pack something along the lines of a
taser, since they did take down a fleeing suspect on foot with the static
pulse. But, seeing as how KITT could start up and drive away, right after
having downed power lines come in contact with his frame like that, the
static pulse seems more like a tickle to me.
Granted, KITT wasn't able to continue the chase after the electrocution. So,
if the pulse did pack enough, it could stun KITT just long enough to get off
a killer shot or two.
===
> Brian
Scott Holder
> : A missile without a warhead is not much more than a rocket-powered
> : spear.
> :
> : Scot Holder
>
> Sorry, I'm afraid your wrong.
> Warheads imply nuclear or chemical weapons capabilities -- They are
> usually large bulky things too large to fit on a vehicle the size of a
> Viper... That's why the Viper does not have warheads of any type.
>
> Smaller missiles (regardless of payload) are guided by laser, heat,
> etc. -- these smaller missiles are capped with explosive shells, not
> 'warheads.'
>
> Brian
I'm not really interested in a literary debate, but, since you insist :)
war·head (wôrhd)
n.
A part of the armament system in the forward part of a projectile,
such as a guided missile, rocket, torpedo, bomb, or other munition, that
contains either a nuclear or thermonuclear system, a high explosive system,
chemical or biological agents, or inert materials intended to inflict
damage on a target.
From: http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=warhead
Apparently even a rock tied to a bottle rocket could be a warhead... :)
Scott Holder
Brian M Gajewski
Brian M Gajewski
: about,
: > >you cross-eyed Nerd. There was no old man in that scene..." ...I'll
: divert
: > >such posts by adding the fact that in the syndicate runs, way too many
: > >scenes were lost in the pursuit of finding space for more advertising.
: And,
: > >this was just one of many scenes lost from Goliath, after it's debut run
: on
: > >NBC.)
: > >
: >
: > It's in the Columbia House Tape :-)
: Dang, I need to subscribe to that. $20 a tape seems a bit much, but I'm a
: little too goody-two-shoes to ask for copies from people I know who have
: them :)
: Scott Holder
The tapes are worth the price -- I just wish I had the space for the 45 or
so tapes that would be the complete original series. But I seen several
of these CH videos and they are awesome. The picture quality is better
than what is syndicated, there is about 3-5 minutes of extra footage per
episode and they have those awesome "Next on Knight Rider" teasers at the
beginning.
Cool collection IMO -- I also believe that Columbia House is offering
Airwolf.
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: > etc. -- these smaller missiles are capped with explosive shells, not
: > 'warheads.'
: >
: > Brian
: I'm not really interested in a literary debate, but, since you insist :)
: war·head (wôrhd)
: n.
: A part of the armament system in the forward part of a projectile,
: such as a guided missile, rocket, torpedo, bomb, or other munition, that
: contains either a nuclear or thermonuclear system, a high explosive system,
: chemical or biological agents, or inert materials intended to inflict
: damage on a target.
I'm afraid this doesn't hold up, sorry.
First, at no point in the 4 season run of episodes were any of the Viper's
weapon systems were referred to as war heads. The viper featured could
launch several projectiles such as a spider bomb or tunneller
missile. But, small arms are never referred to as 'warheads.' Warheads
adorn ICBM and long range weapons. Ground-to-Air weapon systems (such as
a simple bazooka to tank-killers, etc) like featured on the Viper are too
small to use this title -- Warheads level cities, shells simply go after
smaller targets. The above definition is vague as you stated (that's why
its wrong to use it to refer to the weapon systems of the Viper).
Brian M Gajewski
::: Kitt's Turns in SPM were with Rocket assist.
::
:: Are you are making this up?
::
:: Brian
::
: No im not making it up. Its on one of those KR webpages where the specs
: of Kitt can be found. The site claims David Hasselhoff's niece is the
: source of the information. Rocket assist was part of Super Pursuit Mode
: it assisted in the turning so it could turn at those breakneck speeds.
Wow, what a strong source of information... Hasselhoff's niece, tell me
which episode(s) did she write? (Voodoo Knight perhaps?) Even if
Hasselhoff himself said this, it was never mentioned on the show -- so its
a best guess on a good day. Its not like KITT had rudders to control his
side-to-side movement and no 'rockets' were ever visible -- I still think
its a weak way to explain why the filmmakers played the film back at 2x
speed. :)
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: to the Defender mode that KITT could take advantage of. And, yet again, to
: mention the remote control factor that KITT might (granted, that is one hugh
: might I'm using for an example here) be able to tap into and disarm all the
: Defender's systems with.
You are making this stuff up as you go along? eh? First all, KITT's
1982-1986 technology (probably analog communication) would not support the
military spec frequencies (digital and scrambled, high level microwave
also could be employed) of the near future (probably 2003-4 in season 1 to
about 2008 by season 4) of the Viper.
: But, I still say those duel weapons pods are a hugh weakness in the
: Defender's scheme. The little warhead-equipped rockets (or whatever they
: really should be called) fly right out of a straight tube in both of the
: weapon pods.
So, the Defender still has a probe that can fly around and attack
KITT. Not to mention, the Viper has an additional weapons pod in the rear
above the bumper (that is capable of .50 caliber machine fire, static
pulse, and more).
Since KITT could hit a coin sized flaw in a moving Goliath, why
: should a larger sized tube be much harder to hit into? Because, it is lower
: to the ground, or something?
But the Defender doesn't even need these tubes. Plus, Garth Knight wasn't
exactly a skilled driver, he drove off a freakin' cliff (what an
idiot). Cole and Astor would easily outmatch Michael Knight for wits as
well as driving skill. Plus, the fact that the Viper has additional
weapons in the rear weapons pod (in additional to the side pods).
: Dang, nabbit. I just reasoned myself right out of using the laser as a
: weapon and right into throwing the rule book in. Turns out that KITT lost
: the laser in either 'KITT vs. KARR' (when KARR steals the modified laser
: pack, and then gets it destroyed along with most everything else) or, if it
: somehow survives that, it turns into technilogically dissolved goo (along
: with everything else) when KITT is transformed into bones in 'Junkyard Dog'.
That was my point. KITT did not have a laser by the end of the show's
run. He would have used it against the Juggernaut if he did! Plus, KITT
only successfully used it once (when taking down Goliath the first
time). It didn't work against KARR the first time and KARR stole it the
second time... The laser was never a reliable means of defense for
KITT.
: When KITT meets up with the Viper Defender to do this battle, what year is
: it? (And, for that fact, is it even possible, since you want to follow the
: story plots.) I don't recall all the figures, off hand, but KITT was retired
: some time during the early 1990's...probably right after Michael retired.
: One thing I don't know is the years that the Viper Defender was set in.
: (But, I get the impression that KITT was torn down and sold for parts before
: that time even occurs. All thanks to Russell Maddock.) So, unless you want
: to throw the Viper Defender into a time warp to challenge the 1985(6?)
: version of KITT, it becomes a little hard to tell what KITT can do by the
: time the Viper comes around.
KITT's could do his imitation of a Pepsi Cola Can (his body was recycled
in 2000 according to Knight Rider 2000) by the time the Defender was
constructed in roughly 2004 (by all estimates, that was when the pilot
movie for Viper begins).
: Then, there is that annoying little fact that KITT can't intentionally cause
: harm to a living being.
That is another true fact -- ramming/firing on the Defender would
certainly put Cole/Astor and Westlake in harm's way. Of course, Cole and
Astor have no similar limitation -- Cole has blown up airplanes (Mig-89)
with criminals on board, shot people with .50 caliber shells through their
car doors, etc. Astor has similarly ran bad guys off the road (Ghosts -
He ran Alec Conner off a bridge)... So both driver's wouldn't hesistate
behind the wheel if KITT was perceived as a threat (say if Michael or KITT
went bad like KARR). I also believe in such an occurance, the Viper would
win such a matchup (the only edge I give to KITT/KARR is that they could
escape the Defender -- because according to the show both KITT/KARR are
capable of 300 mph, while Viper can only manage 225 under special
circumstances).
: KITT shouldn't permit himself to risk harming anyone inside the Defender, so
: he couldn't attack.
:
: Of course, if Bonnie was still taking care of KITT, she probably would have
: the perfect upgrade thingie that could defeat the Defender, ready to install
: and just in time. (Whatever that might be.)
:
: But then, Frankie would do the same for the Viper Defender.
: > : The A-Number 1 weak point in the Viper...it's assault weapon ports.
: >
: > Yeah, while the Defender is miles away -- its Probe is burning holes
: > through KITT with its laser.
: ===
: Yea, right. KITT would microjam that probe seconds after it's attempt to sun
: tan Michael. KITT's own laser pack couldn't even penetrate an MBS coated
: surface, except for the scanner port. (And, I know they didn't bother to
: think about the driver in that example. Even though KARR tried and got the
: reflective shot treatment.) So, what hope does that little spy floater have?
Well, that's a perfect example how KITT would lose!
It was well established that KITT can only microjam one thing at a time --
if he goes after the probe, the Defender could move in and destroy KITT
(the probe is a perfect decoy). The probe has an EXTREMELY power laser
(could slice through safes/people/prison bars in millisecond). So if KITT
tried to microjam the Defender, the Probe (controlled by the
complex/power station) could aggressively attack KITT. That's why I
believe KITT is just no match.
: Sorry I don't know what exactly to call them. It's those little things that
: come out of the weapon pod's tubes that, when they meet up with something
: physically hard, they explode like all Hell just broke loose.
But only if they are armed, the shells all have a safety (like all modern
armament).
: Though, now that I've reasoned out that KITT lost the laser in season 3, I'm
: not sure what he'd use to cause early detonation of the explosives inside
: the weapon pods. (That would require knowing what KITT has gained in the
: time period between 1986 and Viper's time.)
Exactly.
: > Oh, you mean the laser KITT had in 4 episodes -- or the one he DIDN'T have
: > in the other 86.
: ===
: True. True. The Viper Defender would have to go to the year 1984 to be
: challenged by the laser weilding KITT. I appologize on that one.
: > Next you'll tell me about Hydrofoil mode (used once) or
: > R/C's offroad tires (used once)
: As for RC III's little spiked tires, I say "Whatever." If Defender's tires
: can balloon up to deal with off-road conditions, then KITT's tires can
: become solid chunks of technology that can extend and retract steel nail
: tread.
But, the Defender's 4WD mode wasn't an introduced for one episode gimmick
-- it was used consistently throughout all 4 seasons (remember, even the
General Lee got large 4WD tires for one episode too).
: Hang on a moment. If I'm recalling right, these almost stock Fart Thundertur
: ds were from 'Knight of the Drones.' And, the only thing they had were a
: couple guided missiles that locked on to a target moving in a straight line.
: IF KITT had just done a 180 and rammed the piece of remote controlled junk
: in the first place...
But he didn't. He got destroyed.
I'm sure he should have been able to get off the forklift in Junk Yard Dog
also, but he didn't.
Michael should have known better that to ram a semi protected by the MBS,
but he didn't.
The only time KITT really logically got destroyed was Knight of the
Juggernaut. All 3 previous damage was incurred by 'bad writing.'
: > KITT was a bit inconsistant in his capabilities (that's why some of the
: > 'Did you ever notice lists are so funny.') In the entire run of the
: > Viper, they never once mentioned a weak spot -- I suspect Jullian shielded
: > the vehicle pretty evenly (he was a genius and all). So I guess KITT
: > would just pick a spot, start ramming and hope for the best. The only
: > problem is with Astor or Cole behind the wheel, the Viper would be a
: > difficult target to hit -- That's always been my point.
: ===
: Agreed.
: ===
: I think it was 'Lost Knight' that tests KITT's resistance to electricity.
: And, if high tension power wires that even gave Michael that electric chair
: feeling (even though he was suppose to be insulated) couldn't shut KITT
: down, I really don't see what a static pulse stands a chance of doing. I
: also recall, but am not sure, that Bonnie mentions adding counter-electrical
: measures to KITT after that problem situation occurred.
The Static Pulse actually works a bit different than simply high voltage
-- instead of high wattage (like powerlines) it uses high level amps (like
a generator). Its the amps that kill a person (and electronics for that
matter) it causes more damage than simple voltage.
: Like above, I don't really know what the Defender's static pulse packs that
: high tension power wires supplying a small city with power doesn't, times a
: factor of (??)
But a vehicle as small as the Defender couldn't develop that much power --
that's why the static pulse works differently (see above).
: Granted, KITT wasn't able to continue the chase after the electrocution. So,
: if the pulse did pack enough, it could stun KITT just long enough to get off
: a killer shot or two.
That is true.
KITT has an edge for speed -- the Defender has an edge in combat
situations.
Brian
Peter Apockotos
Actually, I think that it is Bonnie or K.I.T.T. that mentions that rocket
assist is used
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C4
> KITT. Not to mention, the Viper has an additional weapons pod in the rear
> above the bumper (that is capable of .50 caliber machine fire, static
> pulse, and more).
> : Yea, right. KITT would microjam that probe seconds after it's attempt to sun
> : tan Michael. KITT's own laser pack couldn't even penetrate an MBS coated
> : surface, except for the scanner port. (And, I know they didn't bother to
> : think about the driver in that example. Even though KARR tried and got the
> : reflective shot treatment.) So, what hope does that little spy floater have?
>
> Well, that's a perfect example how KITT would lose!
> It was well established that KITT can only microjam one thing at a time --
> if he goes after the probe, the Defender could move in and destroy KITT
> (the probe is a perfect decoy). The probe has an EXTREMELY power laser
> (could slice through safes/people/prison bars in millisecond). So if KITT
> tried to microjam the Defender, the Probe (controlled by the
> complex/power station) could aggressively attack KITT. That's why I
> believe KITT is just no match.
I thought the probe was controlled by Cole/Westlake in the Defender. If
KITT did microjam the Defender,therby rendering it dead, wouldn't the
probe be useless?
--
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83 Firebird Trans-AM (83-86)
86 Corvette Convertible (86-91)
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00 Montana (00-Present)
jup
> You are making this stuff up as you go along? eh? First all, KITT's
> 1982-1986 technology (probably analog communication) would not support the
> military spec frequencies (digital and scrambled, high level microwave
> also could be employed) of the near future (probably 2003-4 in season 1 to
> about 2008 by season 4) of the Viper.
Alright, then. KITT wasn't around in anything more than mind past 2000.
Making it an impossibility (plot wise) to have these two meet each other for
a combat match. And, seeing as how I have no confidence in a stunner
equipped, Fax printing KIFT being able to do anything more than annoy anyone
present in either the Viper or the Defender, the battle is null and void.
You may proceed to fire your Defender's weapons on the Knight Industries
FOUR Thousand at your leisure.
March2875
March2875
microjammed more than one thing. He can't Microjam 3 things. He has Microjammed
engine's and doors on the same vehicle, and also the brakes and steering on
another vehicle. In the episode "Hills of Fire" he microjammed the engine and
the door of the chopper. He would have to release the chopper to micro jam the
truck that was getting away. Now whether he can Jam one thing on two separate
vehicles I can't say for sure. I don't see the probe being as easy a threat as
you make it seem though. As for the missile's from 1/2 mile away, one Kitt has
radar he can detect them coming, secondly ive seen every episode of Viper up
until the return of Joe Astor in its final season, I missed a lot of those. But
I never once heard it mentioned IN THE SHOW that the Defender could fire
missiles up to a half a mile away. So the fact that Rocket Assist to our
knowledge was never mentioned on the show has nothing to do with it not being a
feature. Cause this wasn't mentioned on Viper either.
Brian M Gajewski
Owe, that stings. But, I guess its true. All KIFT really did was try to
LOOK good. He could swim (probably the vehicles most prominant feature),
but so could the newer Defender (Season 4/GTS Coupe model).
Check out this story, a company is developing a new (static
pulse-like) device that can immobilize people as well as
vehicles... The current Static Pulse is used like a spike strip, the car
drives over the device in the road. But this new immobilizer fires a
small beam up to two kilometers.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40494,00.htm
Thought it was interesting...
But, yeah -- the timelines of Viper and the original Knight Rider don't
mesh. So its not really a good comparison. Only Knight Rider 2000 or
(yikes) Knight Rider 2010 would logically compare (as the Viper show was
set from about the years 2004-2008).
Brian
Brian M Gajewski
: The Probe's laser most likely couldn't even pierce the MBS.
But, it would probably be used against obvious weakspots -- for example,
the front scanner. That's how KARR was destroyed, by LASER fire no less.
: Kitt has
: microjammed more than one thing. He can't Microjam 3 things. He has Microjammed
: engine's and doors on the same vehicle,
Here's the big question. This makes sense if the vehicle had power door
locks -- but what if the vehicle didn't. How does KITT microjam door
locks that are manual? Gravity? Who knows.
: truck that was getting away. Now whether he can Jam one thing on two separate
: vehicles I can't say for sure.
Well, its always been depicted on the show that he can only Microjam one
vehicle/opponent at a time.
: I don't see the probe being as easy a threat as
: you make it seem though.
Not only could the probe attack and probably destroy KITT's scanner. The
probe could also use its laser to damage/destroy KITT's tires (they don't
have MBS, merely are 'bullet proof.') This would definitely slow
down/immobilize KITT.
: As for the missile's from 1/2 mile away, one Kitt has
: radar he can detect them coming, secondly ive seen every episode of Viper up
: until the return of Joe Astor in its final season, I missed a lot of those.
: But I never once heard it mentioned IN THE SHOW that the Defender could fire
: missiles up to a half a mile away.
Well, it was mentioned in the Viper infomercial (during the premiere of
its syndication run). It also was stated several of the show's press
kits. The closest in the show that it is mentioned is "Winner Take
All." from season 2. Allie briefly mentioned the missile capabilities and
its various payloads.
: So the fact that Rocket Assist to our knowledge was never mentioned on
: the show has nothing to do with it not being a
: feature. Cause this wasn't mentioned on Viper either.
You have a point, but the psyhics of KITT go from uncomprehensible to
ridiculous when you include rocket assist! So now, Covertible Mode, EBS,
Super Pursuit, Various Rockets (for directional assist), Turbine, Onboard
Particle Analyzer, A Turbo Charger (for Turbo Boost), an Advanced
Artificial Intelligence all fit on an 1982 Trans Am (heck, the car in
stock form wasn't exactly roomy to begin with!) -- They went a bit
overboard? ehh?
Brian
March2875
Brian M Gajewski
: Then if you hate the concept of Knight Rider so much why watch it?
When did I ever say I hated Knight Rider? Just because I evaluate its
strengths and weaknesses, doesn't mean I dislike it. Like any TV show or
Movie is perfect??? Heck, even highly successful films make huge
errors. Watch Beverly Hills Cop and Beverly Hills Cop II for lessons on
how to screw up continuity. Gee, first the bad guys drive an '87 Camaro
-- whoops, now its a '74.... And so on.
Viper, Airwolf, Dukes of Hazzard all had some flaws (with DoH having some
painfully obvious ones). But I watch Dukes everytime I'm home for
it... I'd do the same if KR was still airing in the U.S. I love action
shows in general.
Brian
jup
> : Brian M Gajewski <bmg9...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote in message
> : news:90qv2f$l21$1...@news.cc.ucf.edu...
> : > You are making this stuff up as you go along? eh? First all, KITT's
> : > 1982-1986 technology (probably analog communication) would not support
the
> : > military spec frequencies (digital and scrambled, high level microwave
> : > also could be employed) of the near future (probably 2003-4 in season
1 to
> : > about 2008 by season 4) of the Viper.
>
> : Alright, then. KITT wasn't around in anything more than mind past 2000.
> : Making it an impossibility (plot wise) to have these two meet each other
for
> : a combat match. And, seeing as how I have no confidence in a stunner
> : equipped, Fax printing KIFT being able to do anything more than annoy
anyone
> : present in either the Viper or the Defender, the battle is null and
void.
>
> : You may proceed to fire your Defender's weapons on the Knight Industries
> : FOUR Thousand at your leisure.
>
> Owe, that stings. But, I guess its true. All KIFT really did was try to
> LOOK good. He could swim (probably the vehicles most prominant feature),
> but so could the newer Defender (Season 4/GTS Coupe model).
And, what's sad is that the KIFT car/boat that they had made for the movie
couldn't even stay afloat. It just sprung leaks and kept sinking. See the
site, linked below...
Knight Rider 2000 Online.
http://www.knightrider2000.8m.com/main2.html - Click on the "Behind the
Scenes: A look into the making of KR2000."
===
> Check out this story, a company is developing a new (static
> pulse-like) device that can immobilize people as well as
> vehicles... The current Static Pulse is used like a spike strip, the car
> drives over the device in the road. But this new immobilizer fires a
> small beam up to two kilometers.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40494,00.htm
>
> Thought it was interesting...
> But, yeah -- the timelines of Viper and the original Knight Rider don't
> mesh. So its not really a good comparison. Only Knight Rider 2000 or
> (yikes) Knight Rider 2010 would logically compare (as the Viper show was
> set from about the years 2004-2008).
>
> Brian
There is hope of a new KR movie set in the future that David H. keeps
mentioning. If the year happens shortly after 2000, (like is hoped will be
the case) then we should have a real KITT vs Defender match-up to discuss
over.
jup
> pulse-like) device that can immobilize people as well as
> vehicles... The current Static Pulse is used like a spike strip, the car
> drives over the device in the road. But this new immobilizer fires a
> small beam up to two kilometers.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40494,00.htm
Wow. That's just incredible. Am I correct in remembering an episode of Viper
that had criminals "tasering" a bank full of customers and employees with a
ball that emitted some sort of light? (Very close to a technique that is
mentioned in this article)
TheHasselhoff
>
> But, it would probably be used against obvious weakspots -- for example,
> the front scanner. That's how KARR was destroyed, by LASER fire no less.
Of course, no one but FLAG operatives know this to be a weak spot - even an
intensive scan never revealed this to the bad guys.
> Here's the big question. This makes sense if the vehicle had power door
> locks -- but what if the vehicle didn't. How does KITT microjam door
> locks that are manual? Gravity? Who knows.
KITT uses microwaves to physically do something. It has nothing to do with
the item having an electronic basis (although it also works on electronics).
> : I don't see the probe being as easy a threat as
> : you make it seem though.
>
> Not only could the probe attack and probably destroy KITT's scanner. The
> probe could also use its laser to damage/destroy KITT's tires (they don't
> have MBS, merely are 'bullet proof.') This would definitely slow
> down/immobilize KITT.
Negative, the tires were, indeed, covered with the MBS (as witnessed by that
fourth season ep where KITT drives through lava). However, the idea behind
the MBS is to create molecular cohesion; which is why, even covered with
the MBS, the T/A body is stronger than the tires, and Goliath's frame is
stronger than both.
The tires are weak enough that small objects, such as specially-created
bullets, can inflict damage (think "straw in a hurricane").
> : So the fact that Rocket Assist to our knowledge was never mentioned on
> : the show has nothing to do with it not being a
> : feature. Cause this wasn't mentioned on Viper either.
>
> You have a point, but the psyhics of KITT go from uncomprehensible to
> ridiculous when you include rocket assist!
"Rocket Assist" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard (and I've heard
quite a bit). How could rocket fire (which, of course, we never see or
hear) help in navigation?
I always believed that, during Pursuit/SPM, KITT would assist in navigation,
as he could see further ahead and react faster than an human being. The
main maneuvers were performed by Michael, but KITT was like a copilot or
tailgunner.
March2875
too. Its the most respectable spin off of Knight Rider ever made. I bet the
producers of Viper were fans of Knight Rider. Id love to see a Knight Rider
meets Viper movie. When they first meet they have a battle because Michael and
Kitt are out to investigate this misterous Silver Car that shows up every so
often. Then of course they team up.
Brian M Gajewski
: > : FOUR Thousand at your leisure.
: >
: > Owe, that stings. But, I guess its true. All KIFT really did was try to
: > LOOK good. He could swim (probably the vehicles most prominant feature),
: > but so could the newer Defender (Season 4/GTS Coupe model).
: ===
: And, what's sad is that the KIFT car/boat that they had made for the movie
: couldn't even stay afloat. It just sprung leaks and kept sinking. See the
: site, linked below...
That's actually kind of funny. In the season 4 episode of Viper entitled
"The Return" the car gets stuck on an old dock. The Defender then falls
into the harbor (after the dock collapsed) -- according to Robert Benjamin
(producer of the show), they had difficulty making the stunt car
SINK! air pockets formed under the clamshell hood the the Defender (as
well as in the passenger compartment) -- so they had to put lead weights
in the vehicle to make it drop below the waterline.
Brian
Little ironic?
Brian M Gajewski
: > the front scanner. That's how KARR was destroyed, by LASER fire no less.
: Of course, no one but FLAG operatives know this to be a weak spot - even an
: intensive scan never revealed this to the bad guys.
I'm not so sure about this one. Just looking at the car -- you've got all
this steel (now with MBS cohesion) and in the middle of the grill is a
scanner that looks like glass or plastic. I'd figure it would be a weak
spot just by looking at it. Of course, I would have never figured the
right front tire of Goliath would be a weak spot -- so who knows?
: > Not only could the probe attack and probably destroy KITT's scanner. The
: > probe could also use its laser to damage/destroy KITT's tires (they don't
: > have MBS, merely are 'bullet proof.') This would definitely slow
: > down/immobilize KITT.
: Negative, the tires were, indeed, covered with the MBS (as witnessed by that
: fourth season ep where KITT drives through lava). However, the idea behind
: the MBS is to create molecular cohesion; which is why, even covered with
: the MBS, the T/A body is stronger than the tires, and Goliath's frame is
: stronger than both.
But I'm skeptical that you can molecularly bond a sustance that is as
pliable as rubber. If the MBS is on the tires, then they would be rock
solid hard -- how would KITT get any traction (Tire compounds are designed
to be soft to adhere to ashphalt/pavement).
This lava argument points out another inconsistancy. The tires are strong
enough to survive 1500 degree F lava but get shredded by pretty standard
armour piercing bullets. What gives?
: > You have a point, but the psyhics of KITT go from uncomprehensible to
: > ridiculous when you include rocket assist!
: "Rocket Assist" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard (and I've heard
: quite a bit). How could rocket fire (which, of course, we never see or
: hear) help in navigation?
: I always believed that, during Pursuit/SPM, KITT would assist in navigation,
: as he could see further ahead and react faster than an human being. The
: main maneuvers were performed by Michael, but KITT was like a copilot or
: tailgunner.
This does make more logical sense than rocket assist. Not only would you
need the rockets, but fuel for the rockets (where would you store this
fuel?) I think your view that KITT added navigational assistance is far
more logical. I agree, this does make the most sense (of course
finding the logic in SPM is difficult in the first place).
Brian
Scott Holder
> : > You have a point, but the psyhics of KITT go from uncomprehensible to
> : > ridiculous when you include rocket assist!
>
> : "Rocket Assist" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard (and I've heard
> : quite a bit). How could rocket fire (which, of course, we never see or
> : hear) help in navigation?
> : I always believed that, during Pursuit/SPM, KITT would assist in
navigation,
> : as he could see further ahead and react faster than an human being. The
> : main maneuvers were performed by Michael, but KITT was like a copilot or
> : tailgunner.
>
> This does make more logical sense than rocket assist. Not only would you
> need the rockets, but fuel for the rockets (where would you store this
> fuel?) I think your view that KITT added navigational assistance is far
> more logical. I agree, this does make the most sense (of course
> finding the logic in SPM is difficult in the first place).
>
> Brian
It always amused me in the SPM driving scenes that the car would look
absolutely glued to the road with no fishtailing or anything, even though
they were supposedly going 250+ mph. In regular mode, the car is skidding
all over the place at much lower speeds. Isn't film speed alteration great?
;)
Scott Holder
Brian M Gajewski
Viper was bland at time (3rd season anyone?), but the writing was fairly
consistant throughout when it came to technology. But there are quite a
few goofs I could point out. Frankie's ('71 Cuda suddenly becomes a '73
Challenger) or Westlakes' (Green Avenger -- then suddenly Green
Intrepid -- then back to a Green Avenger -- then suddenly a Green
Grand Cherokee... well, at least the color was the same) musical cars. Or
how about Frankie's second season relationship with guns (a gun klutz in
Winner Take All -- then 2 episodes later, ace assasin in Mig-89).
Or Westlake -- pencil pushing, by the book rookie... Then two seasons
later, she hangs out with Joe Astor for a half hour and she begins
stealing things! But, the argument that most Viper fans use to cover
these inconsistancies is that "people change" -- so the character arcs can
simply be used to cover this up.
But, no show is perfect -- and heck if you've ever seen how crappy Walker,
Texas Ranger is... It makes Knight Rider look PERFECT by comparison!
March2875 (marc...@aol.com) wrote:
: Well you seem to be MUCH harder on Knight Rider than even Viper. I love Viper
: too. Its the most respectable spin off of Knight Rider ever made.
Although the producers never tried to do the show that way -- it always
get compared to KR. But, I certainly see why people do compare them. But
in its premise, I do agree with many people who think Viper resembles
Airwolf more (that whole vigilante with badass vehicle thing).
: I bet the producers of Viper were fans of Knight Rider. Id love to see
: a Knight Rider meets Viper movie.
I'm sure they were fans. I've met a few of those guys, they are cool
people. They are big Sci-Fi/Comic Book people -- these are the same
people who brought out The Flash TV Series, Human Target, The Sentinel and
The Rocketeer movie. But I'd say a crossover movie will never happen --
Paramount treated Viper like a bastard child from day one. What studio
cancels a show that is making money? Ask Paramount who cancelled Viper --
it was making a profit? Heck, Universal was making money with Team Knight
Rider also... Go figure.
: Kitt are out to investigate this misterous Silver Car that shows up every so
: often. Then of course they team up.
Of course they'd have to rebuild KITT -- but KITT meeting Viper in 2005 or
so does sound cool.
Brian
March2875
Doesn't Rust" "The scanner is protected by an alloid Grill, only a DEAD ON SHOT
CAN WORK you must hold the laser on target for at least two full seconds and at
a distance no greater than 100 yards" Also the laser has to be powerful enough
to do the job.
March2875
from the static pulse but not fully rebuilt. The defender only needed a
recharge after it got hit by its own pulse. Remember the High tensial
reflectors in "Kitt vs Karr" wonder if they could reflect the static pulse
would be a grueling fight for sure.
March2875
seem Allie Farroll never existed. In the first season with Cole it was said
that the Metro Defender was Allie's not Julian's at all.
Brian M Gajewski
: Don't forget also another error in Viper the fourth season seems to make it
: seem Allie Farroll never existed. In the first season with Cole it was said
: that the Metro Defender was Allie's not Julian's at all.
That's wrong.
They never try to write Allie out of the storyline in season 4. They
briefly mention her absence in the Season 3 opener "Triple Cross" that she
took a job at an overseas Think Tank organization. In the 4th season,
Julian was brought in to build a new car -- because after all, it was his
original design. But they never tried to make Allie 'not exist.' I think
the creators realized that 4 characters on the show was just too much --
(maybe a problem for TKR as well, too many characters to cover each
episode) -- that is probably the real reason why Allie went away.
Brian
C4
There is a story posted there where KIFF meets Viper. Not a bad story.
--
March2875
Julian's all the way.
Brian M Gajewski
: Then why did she argue that the Defender was her design and her car? It was
: Julian's all the way.
Simple answer: she didn't.
Even in her first episode, Winner Take All -- they mentioned the car was
developed by Julian Wilkes, but he was working on another project in
Washington -- so Allie would bring the retrofitted Defender up to speed.
Brian