I don't see why everybody hates Bobby Flay so much...
alMIGHTY
Food Network. My friend had told me he thought that Bobby Flay is one
of the only Westerners to win the tournament so I was shocked when he
lost. I decided to do some research about it on Google and was quite
surprised to find so much resentment and even hatred towards Mr. Flay.
Before I continue, I just want to mention that I'm actually
American-Asian, so I don't want people thinking I'm some rowdy white
trash American support Bobby simply because he's American.
I would like to offer up my own support of Bobby Flay. While I have
only been watching the Food Network for a couple of months now, I find
his show Hot Off the Grill quite entertaining and I like his
personality. I never saw any tension or any sort of combative
behavior by Bobby in the dozens of episodes I've watched, and I find
the dynamic between him and Jacqui Malouf to be quite interesting...
very similar to other pairings I've seen on American television.
Now my opinion on that replay...
While I can understand that the Iron Chef was upset about Flay's "lack
of respect" for the tools of his trade, I find his comment towards
Flay about him not being a chef quite hilarious at best, and the
outrage displayed by so many posters on alt.tv.iron-chef laughable at
best.
Many people lay the blame on Flay. They could argue that he should be
more respectful of other people's cultures. I submit that the
argument could be reversed... the Iron Chef should have been open to
our culture as well. Bobby cooks because he enjoys cooking and has
fun doing it. His whole personality on his show and his guest
appearances shows it. The act of climbing on the counter to rile up
the audience shows it.
In Japan, cooking may be a sacred art or whatever, but here people
actually cook for fun... because they love doing what they do. I'm a
(VERY VERY VERY) amateur cook and the only reason I do it is because I
find it fun and rewarding. I wouldn't do it if I had to go through
all this formality and regimen.
Remember, all, that the challenge took place in America... in New York
no less. The two contestants were not on Japanese soil. I'm sure
there are no rules about interacting with the crowd, about never
cracking a smile or expressing enjoyment. Flay's American, and he did
what many other Americans would have done at tournaments (that this
was not a sporting event does not change a thing).
Furthermore, I doubt that Bobby did that for the purpose of insulting
the Iron Chef. I doubt that he even realized he was doing something
wrong (although I will concede that he may have went overboard in the
second match-up when he tossed away the chopping board before he
climbed on the counter).
In summary, I enjoy watching Bobby on television very much, and I
enjoy following his recipes from both his show and his books. I find
it childish to say that one wouldn't patronize his restaurant just
because of disagreements with his style and personality. Let's all
just loosen up!
:-)
nyangel
as Jacque Malouf she kiss his ass all day on the show.
"alMIGHTY" <natl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9a96a4bc.03050...@posting.google.com...
philster
> I just saw the replay of Bobby Flay's first Iron Chef outing on the
> Food Network. My friend had told me he thought that Bobby Flay is one
> of the only Westerners to win the tournament so I was shocked when he
> lost. I decided to do some research about it on Google and was quite
> surprised to find so much resentment and even hatred towards Mr. Flay.
>
> Before I continue, I just want to mention that I'm actually
> American-Asian, so I don't want people thinking I'm some rowdy white
> trash American support Bobby simply because he's American.
Fair enough. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I'm half-Euro
and half-Japanese. And I loathe Flay.
> I would like to offer up my own support of Bobby Flay. While I have
> only been watching the Food Network for a couple of months now, I find
> his show Hot Off the Grill quite entertaining and I like his
> personality. I never saw any tension or any sort of combative
> behavior by Bobby in the dozens of episodes I've watched, and I find
> the dynamic between him and Jacqui Malouf to be quite interesting...
> very similar to other pairings I've seen on American television.
I don't have any problem with these shows, either...
> Now my opinion on that replay...
>
> While I can understand that the Iron Chef was upset about Flay's "lack
> of respect" for the tools of his trade, I find his comment towards
> Flay about him not being a chef quite hilarious at best, and the
> outrage displayed by so many posters on alt.tv.iron-chef laughable at
> best.
Why laughable? What Morimoto-san was saying is that any real chef
respects and honors the tools of his profession. His comment was
focused on Flay's post-battle antics, not on his culinary abilities.
It's worth noting here that the dubbing alters or even replaces the
meaning of what was originally uttered in Japanese.
> Many people lay the blame on Flay. They could argue that he should be
> more respectful of other people's cultures. I submit that the
> argument could be reversed... the Iron Chef should have been open to
> our culture as well. Bobby cooks because he enjoys cooking and has
> fun doing it. His whole personality on his show and his guest
> appearances shows it. The act of climbing on the counter to rile up
> the audience shows it.
Are you attempting to encapsulate American culture within the specific
context of Flay's cutting board-edge behavior? If so, it seems to me
that that is an indictment of American culture and values rather than
of IC fans who don't like Bobby.
> In Japan, cooking may be a sacred art or whatever,
Yup. Obviously your Asian heritage is non-Japanese!
> but here people
> actually cook for fun... because they love doing what they do.
In Japan, that is often true as well. Who said art can't be fun?
Isn't that the essence of IC's appeal???
> I'm a
> (VERY VERY VERY) amateur cook and the only reason I do it is because I
> find it fun and rewarding. I wouldn't do it if I had to go through
> all this formality and regimen.
Totally understandable and reasonable. But you wouldn't expect chefs
of tetsujin and chosensha ilk to feel the same way, would you?
> Remember, all, that the challenge took place in America... in New York
> no less. The two contestants were not on Japanese soil. I'm sure
> there are no rules about interacting with the crowd, about never
> cracking a smile or expressing enjoyment. Flay's American, and he did
> what many other Americans would have done at tournaments (that this
> was not a sporting event does not change a thing).
It's a Japanese show, regardless of where this battle was filmed. As
a lifelong sports nut, I simply cannot remember an American athlete
ever doing something as insulting and asinine as whay Flay did. I'm
sure there are examples, but I cannot recall a one. I really must
take issue with your statement that it was what many other Americans
would do. If I'm wrong about this, then I would submit that we
Yanks should be embarassed and need to do some soul-searching. There
is nothing un-American about manners and respect and courtesy.
> Furthermore, I doubt that Bobby did that for the purpose of insulting
> the Iron Chef. I doubt that he even realized he was doing something
> wrong (although I will concede that he may have went overboard in the
> second match-up when he tossed away the chopping board before he
> climbed on the counter).
Well, the second time, he ridiculed Morimoto-san by throwing away
the cutting board and then explaining that he did it so as not to
insult him again. What a class act, huh?
> In summary, I enjoy watching Bobby on television very much, and I
> enjoy following his recipes from both his show and his books. I find
> it childish to say that one wouldn't patronize his restaurant just
> because of disagreements with his style and personality. Let's all
> just loosen up!
>
> :-)
Call me childish, then. Bobby didn't loosen up. After the NY Battle,
he leveraged Fuji TV into giving him a rematch using the threat of
a million dollar lawsuit. While I was somewhat impressed with the
quality of Bobby's dishes in the rematch, I'm afraid that the vote
was in before the battle was even set up.
I've never eaten at any of his eateries, so I cannot comment about
anything other than his techniques and approaches in making the
dishes he made in those two battles, but I don't feel that he
is a chef on the same level as Ron Siegel or Wayne Nish, two
American chefs who preceded him in the KS. Heck, I'm not even
sure if he could win a battle against Noda Minoru of L.A.'s
Hanabishi, who was the first American challenger on the show.
-Phil
=Phil
Targaff
news:fa466abe.03050...@posting.google.com:
> Well, the second time, he ridiculed Morimoto-san by throwing away
> the cutting board and then explaining that he did it so as not to
> insult him again. What a class act, huh?
I've not actually seen the first one, but this is the part which
particularly riles me - his doing something deliberately that he knew would
jibe at the Iron Chef. It's just immature.
> After the NY Battle, he leveraged Fuji TV into giving him a rematch
> using the threat of a million dollar lawsuit.
Wasn't his argument that the setup was biased and his tools were inferior?
I can't help but think that a professional cook would have taken the time
to check before the battle, which at least one of the reports I've read
from an IC battle says the Iron Chefs did. What's that about a bad workman
always blaming his tools... ? :>
--
Targaff
TheKid
there before hand making sure he had everything he needed. A professional
would always check.
I'm not sure what it is about Bobby that I don't like?
Is it his NY Irish attitude?
Is it his "I know more about it than you" smirk?
I thought it was stupid for him to get on top of the table in the show. It
must show the Japanese viewer that Americans are an egotistical bunch. I'm
glad he got beat by Morimoto. I don't think there was any doubt of it
anyway. And I'm not a big Morimoto fan. Give me Chen Kinechi or H. Saki any
day!
"Targaff" <tar...@removeme.bazza.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93705551D16...@146.6.70.83...
Bokman7757
>It's a Japanese show, regardless of where this battle was filmed. As
>a lifelong sports nut, I simply cannot remember an American athlete
>ever doing something as insulting and asinine as whay Flay did.
There was some business at the last Olympics- but yeah, that sorta stuff is
generally looked upon as a bit dumb. In this context it made Flay look like he
was cocky, overconfident- a perfect heel.
>Well, the second time, he ridiculed Morimoto-san by throwing away
>the cutting board and then explaining that he did it so as not to
>insult him again. What a class act, huh?
Now, now, he may just not have understood the original complaint.
>After the NY Battle,
>he leveraged Fuji TV into giving him a rematch using the threat of
>a million dollar lawsuit. While I was somewhat impressed with the
>quality of Bobby's dishes in the rematch, I'm afraid that the vote
>was in before the battle was even set up.
Looking back, I do actually think he won "honestly". My theory is that since
the Japanese tasters were largely unfamiliar with southwestern American
cuisine, a lot of what Flay was doing seemed totally new to them, hence he got
more points for creativity.
And it's not like he strikes me as a bad chef- just not at Morimoto's level, at
least not in the context of Kitchen Stadium.
Bokman7757
I think it was the whole short-on-the-electric-stove incident. Which was
indicative of a problematic setup, but I don't think it was deliberately done
to put him at a disadvantage. There were just problems transferring the whole
Kitchen Stadium setup to a different location, and somehow this resulted in
water and electric cables co-mingling, with inevitable results.
Besides, he's worked in restaraunts- he should be used to all sorts of minor
mishaps and setbacks.
DivaSycamore
alMIGHTY wrote:
>
> I just saw the replay of Bobby Flay's first Iron Chef outing on the
> Food Network. My friend had told me he thought that Bobby Flay is one
> of the only Westerners to win the tournament so I was shocked when he
> lost. I decided to do some research about it on Google and was quite
> surprised to find so much resentment and even hatred towards Mr. Flay.
<snip>
Well, I personally have no problem with Flay. IMO, he's just a
personality on a network, like they all are. And, Iron Chef is just a tv
show meant for entertainment. Enjoy! :-)
--
~Prayer of Jabez~
http://www.prayerofjabez.com
~Peace and blessings to the 502PSB, supporting the 4th INFANTRY Division
in Kuwait: SGTS Pam and Shawn Smith
*"Am I scratching YOUR surface yet?" John Travolta from "Basic".
alMIGHTY
have as many opinions and viewpoints as possible so I can further
understand the thinking here...
tetsuji...@yahoo.com (philster) wrote in message news:<fa466abe.03050...@posting.google.com>...
> natl...@yahoo.com (alMIGHTY) wrote in message news:<9a96a4bc.03050...@posting.google.com>...
>
> Why laughable? What Morimoto-san was saying is that any real chef
> respects and honors the tools of his profession. His comment was
> focused on Flay's post-battle antics, not on his culinary abilities.
> It's worth noting here that the dubbing alters or even replaces the
> meaning of what was originally uttered in Japanese.
I understood perfectly what he was saying - neither the meaning nor
the tone were lost in the translation IMO. My only gripe is that
Morimoto shows the same level of arrogance many people seem to accuse
Flay of simply by implying he has the right to decree who or what a
real chef is.
Perhaps a "real chef" in Japan does not do what Flay did, but that has
no bearing on the rest of the world, let alone the United States. In
my own personal views, and from a strictly grammatical standpoint,
only the culinary abilities could define a "real chef".
> Are you attempting to encapsulate American culture within the specific
> context of Flay's cutting board-edge behavior? If so, it seems to me
> that that is an indictment of American culture and values rather than
> of IC fans who don't like Bobby.
Nah...
Flay's attackers seem to think that he was responsible for upholding
the Japanese traditions rather than simply going with the flow, which
I think he did. There was a clash of two cultures there... the
Japanese tradition of apparently putting the cutting board on a
pedastal and kow-towing to it, and jumping up to get the fans going
(perhaps like at a sports event).
And I'm still not convinced that Flay knew that he was insulting
Morimoto the first time.
> > In Japan, cooking may be a sacred art or whatever,
>
> Yup. Obviously your Asian heritage is non-Japanese!
Chinese... :-)
> > but here people
> > actually cook for fun... because they love doing what they do.
>
> In Japan, that is often true as well. Who said art can't be fun?
> Isn't that the essence of IC's appeal???
I'm just saying that everything is in fun. Perhaps Morimoto should
lighten up a bit. He's like the gruff disciplinarian teacher who
whacks you on the hand with a yardstick everytime you try to have some
fun. It was shocking to me to see him interact with that little
fanboy afterwards.
> > I'm a
> > (VERY VERY VERY) amateur cook and the only reason I do it is because I
> > find it fun and rewarding. I wouldn't do it if I had to go through
> > all this formality and regimen.
>
> Totally understandable and reasonable. But you wouldn't expect chefs
> of tetsujin and chosensha ilk to feel the same way, would you?
Of course not... and Morimoto shouldn't expect Flay to follow his same
strict traditions...
> It's a Japanese show, regardless of where this battle was filmed. As
> a lifelong sports nut, I simply cannot remember an American athlete
> ever doing something as insulting and asinine as whay Flay did. I'm
> sure there are examples, but I cannot recall a one. I really must
> take issue with your statement that it was what many other Americans
> would do. If I'm wrong about this, then I would submit that we
> Yanks should be embarassed and need to do some soul-searching. There
> is nothing un-American about manners and respect and courtesy.
I believe that the show was brought to America at least in part by the
Food Network. Like almost any import show, such things would be
adapted to fit the American style. While the concept and idea is
still Japanese, I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that the
show still has to go 100% like it does in Japan... heck, they even had
white judges!
Again, I'm not convinced that Flay did what he did to insult his
opponent. If you take away that part... what he did was simply rile
up the fans, which is what ANY American athlete would do if he was
confident he was going to win.
Perhaps Flay should have apologized if Morimoto took offense, but I
don't disagree with his decision to have done it in the first place.
> Well, the second time, he ridiculed Morimoto-san by throwing away
> the cutting board and then explaining that he did it so as not to
> insult him again. What a class act, huh?
Probably his way of prodding back at Morimoto. Morimoto got his jab
in the first time around with the "not a real chef" comment, and Flay
wanted to jab back.
> Call me childish, then. Bobby didn't loosen up. After the NY Battle,
> he leveraged Fuji TV into giving him a rematch using the threat of
> a million dollar lawsuit. While I was somewhat impressed with the
> quality of Bobby's dishes in the rematch, I'm afraid that the vote
> was in before the battle was even set up.
I'll look into this... I find it hard to believe that he would
threaten a lawsuit simply over losing, but anything's possible in
America... :-)
I've heard many of Flay's attackers also claiming that he won the
second time around only because he made such a big stink about losing
the first time. I guess there's no possibility that he actually
cooked better the second time, huh? ;-)
> I've never eaten at any of his eateries, so I cannot comment about
> anything other than his techniques and approaches in making the
> dishes he made in those two battles, but I don't feel that he
> is a chef on the same level as Ron Siegel or Wayne Nish, two
> American chefs who preceded him in the KS. Heck, I'm not even
> sure if he could win a battle against Noda Minoru of L.A.'s
> Hanabishi, who was the first American challenger on the show.
Personally, I probably wouldn't have eaten anything either of them
prepared during that first run. I'm not too big into Japanese food...
while Bobby did everything in his own style, it still seemed too
"Japanese" to me. Oh well. :-)
alMIGHTY
> I can't help but think that a professional cook would have taken the time
> to check before the battle, which at least one of the reports I've read
> from an IC battle says the Iron Chefs did. What's that about a bad workman
> always blaming his tools... ? :>
Well, my question would be whether the setup for both chefs was
exactly the same. If yes, then it was a level playing field and Bobby
would have no legitimate complaint.
However, from what I saw, there were some serious problems over on his
side...
If he was getting shocked over and over again at his station, should
they not repair it? They certainly did fix things up, but they didn't
give him any extra time for it... and Morimoto wasn't stopping over on
his side.
Regarding his inferior tools claim, I'm not sure whether he was saying
that the tools were inferior to what he uses in his restaurant or if
his tools were inferior to Morimoto's... if the latter, then I see it
as a legitimate complaint.
alMIGHTY
Yeah, but in his restaurant, he's not in a competition where the
reputation of his culinary skills is on the line. If he needs to take
a few minutes to fix a water-and-electricity-equals-electrocution
problem, it's not that big a deal.
alMIGHTY
> Well, I personally have no problem with Flay. IMO, he's just a
> personality on a network, like they all are. And, Iron Chef is just a tv
> show meant for entertainment. Enjoy! :-)
Bravo! ;-)