JayeRitch wrote:
>
> Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
--
“No interesting project can be embarked upon without fear. I shall be
scared to death half the time.”
--Sir Frances Chichester in Sydney
> Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
You never will. As with the real case the story was based on, there
was no resolution.
Although there was reason to suspect the Araber did it, there wasn't
enough evidence to hold him, and he did not 'give it up' in The Box.
--
Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com | Get the FAQs, get the latest news,
get anything to do with Homicide: Life on the Street right here:
Homicide: Links on the Sites - http://members.aol.com/hlotslinks/
--
> Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
The same person who killed Peter Campbell.
Debbie Wilson
I, too, STRONGLY suspect the Araber. He was far and away the most crafty and
savvy perp ever in that Box. There were so many layers to his life and
motivations that Fank and Tim could never expose. He did it all right.
Falsone- Peaches are the key
Professor Plum, in the library, with the candlestick.
Shelshka
RCB
PB
> Chris Rock was the suspect in the murder of a little girl, murdered
> somewhat like Adena, but Pembleton wouldn't let Bayliss pursue
> the murder of Adena through the Chris Rock character. This makes
> me think that Chris Rock was the murderer of Adena
Chris will be appalled that you think so...
Frank knew Tim had momentarily let his brains fall down to his ass,
which is why he didn't want Tim anywhere near the character played by
Chris.
--
Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com | Dutch, Injun, Irish, Limey, Scotch
"Proud to be a mammal"
Frustrated love can express itself in a lot of not so loving ways. Love is not
a guarantee against violence.
>I have a feeling that he's innocent and that Chris Rock was the murderer, but
>I guess I'll never know.
Don't think of them as loose ends, think of them as a lovely decorative fringe.
vivaciously, luna
* "You know, sometimes you're funny. Then there's now."
--
"There are your fog people and your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure
which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said."
>I was thinking of a past episode, the one starring Chris Rock. Chris Rock was
>the suspect in the murder of a little girl, murdered somewhat like Adena, but
>Pembleton wouldn't let Bayliss pursue the murder of Adena through the Chris
>Rock character.
That was because Bayliss had temporarily lost anything even
remotely resembling a sense of perspective and could see only
the opportunity to try again and succeed where he had
failed with the araber. Whilst it's not completely impossible
that the Chris Rock character could have killed Adena,
I think, and I think the script of 'Requiem' wants us to
think, that it was highly unlikely. Rock's character was
disorganised, stupid and inadequate. He failed to get
rid of crucial evidence and he committed a similar crime
close to home but left a living witness. Whoever killed
Adena Watson within the Homicide universe did not commit
these errors and quite possibly had a more complex
psychological motive for committing the murder. Had Rock's
character committed the Adena murder I find it difficult
to believe he wouldn't have left similar Very Large Clues
behind. His function was to show us that Bayliss had not
yet given up hope of 'beating' the murderer of Adena
and revisiting the failed investigation from a new
perspective, as an experienced and successful cop.
>I have a feeling that he's innocent and that Chris Rock was the murderer, but I
>guess I'll never know. Poor Bayliss, I can just imagine how he feels.
No, we'll never know, but what evidence we have
suggests otherwise.
Dianne
x
--
"If you dare to mess with (S)helska
She will send you straight to Hellska."
- quid...@my-deja.com, from the ATH'er Zoo
Still, there is the serrated blade and the fact that he was out on parole at
the time . . .
Pete B.
Pete B.
Allen Wilson wrote:
>
> JayeRitch wrote:
>
> > Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
>
> The same person who killed Peter Campbell.
>
Chester right?
>O.J. did it.
I could have been Kilroy. He was there.
Shel
RCB
>I could have been Kilroy. He was there.
Of course, this post should have read "It could have been Kilroy." That'll
teach me not to check before posting.
Shel
RCB
Excellent extrapolation Shelska!
Jennifer
> Allen Wilson wrote:
> >
> > JayeRitch wrote:
> >
> > > Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
> >
> > The same person who killed Peter Campbell.
> >
>
> Chester right?
Since you seem to know your "Soap," let me ask you a question. How did the
series end? The last episode I remember seeing was with Jessica in front of a
South American (or Mexican) firing squad. Then, later on "Benson," Benson
reportedly saw Jessica's ghost. (I guess that answers my first question.)
Anyways, what was the last episode of "Soap" about? Anyone know?
Debbie Wilson
Allen Wilson wrote: He lies, it was debbie
>
> Morpheus wrote:
>
> > Allen Wilson wrote: He lies again. actually, this is the first lie...
Uhhh, the series ended .....abruptly as I remember. Oh yes, Jesse was in
front of a firing squad that was mexican american, she ran into Butch
and Sundance, shots were heard.....ghosts appeared.....
I don't fuckin know. If I had a clue, I'd probly have to give it back...
I kinda like it the first way actually. 'I could have been, he
was'...there is a trait of human behavior in there...
I still say Falsone (she said no to peaches, what more evidence do you
need)
Burt was going into a drug deal with a bat against guys with gun, with
Jessica the guys yell fire - that's all I remember
obviously, Plum (being a professor, and probably from canada) withheld
peaches, Adena said 'you buy, or I cry' and the monster dragged her from
the library, over the rooftops, to the yard below 2whatever, and then
with yon candlestick uhh said, no did, ummm, lemme start over....
Plum(Martin) Killed Adena. (I knew it!) Dragged her from the library in
Nova Scotia, over the rooftops and into the alley by the yard at
2mdfghtever. That's what it was. He needed the candle to see in the land
of milk and honey! It all makes sense now....not to me, but it does. I
assure you. Wait, i forgot the peach. Ok...
Martin killed Adena(now that i know, i'm sure of it) and he did so with
punctuation and gram...I think the defense rests....
Mistake, my fanny. Confess. You ARE Kilroy. Confess.
Martin
Correct. Like previous seasons, it was a cliffhanger... that went unresolved.
Comedy Central will probably run the finale in a few weeks.
>Jaye wrote:
>>I know the Araber said he loved Adena, he also said he never touched her, and
>>I wondered, if he did kill her, why? Also, why would he mulitate her body
>that
>>way?
>
>Frustrated love can express itself in a lot of not so loving ways. Love is not
>a guarantee against violence.
>
Yes, but in that kind of crime there you usually find a relationship
between the feeling and the killing/treatment of the body. Adena was
killed by hate, particularly hate of the victim. If the Araber had
done it (I don't think he did, btw) I think he would have treated the
body with kindness.
[snip]
Matt Silberstein
-----------------------------
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, Our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
T.J.
>O.J. said he loved Nicole - yet he seemed quite able to mutilate her.
>Stabbings always have possible sexual connotations.
>
Yes, but he had time to turn the love to hate and build that feeling.
And Adena's body was deliberately mutilated. AFAICR (I followed O.J.
story as little as possible) Nicole's mutilation's were relatively
incidental to the killing.
>Pete B.
>
>>I know the Araber said he loved Adena, he also said he never touched her,
>and I
>>wondered, if he did kill her, why? Also, why would he mulitate her body
>that
>>way?
>
>
>>JayeRitch wrote:
>>
>>> Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
>
>I, too, STRONGLY suspect the Araber. He was far and away the most crafty and
>savvy perp ever in that Box. There were so many layers to his life and
>motivations that Fank and Tim could never expose. He did it all right.
>
His response in the box made me think he was innocent. He opened up
and gave all. He was devastated by what he felt and what he said.
Frank and Tim saw, in a sense, that he had something he was hiding
about Adena, but it was not what they wanted. I suspect that if I was
in the box with Frank I would have confess to the crime.
BTW, I love to compare _Three Men and Adena_ to _Black and Blue_.
Would you really accept it if he had confessed at that point?
>Martin said:
>>Mistake, my fanny. Confess. You ARE Kilroy. Confess.
>>
>>Martin
>
>Get her in the Box, Martin!
I want a lawyer.
Shel
RCB
Get her in the Box, Martin!
Kayleigh
> Dave Locke wrote:
> >
> > JayeRitch set words in phosphor:
> >
> > > Who really killed Adena Watson? I am obsessed with finding the answer.
> >
> > You never will. As with the real case the story was based on, there
> > was no resolution.
> >
> > Although there was reason to suspect the Araber did it, there wasn't
> > enough evidence to hold him, and he did not 'give it up' in The Box.
>
> No he didn't. But we're still free to draw our own conclusions from
> what we do know.
Nothing I said indicated otherwise, since I was responding to
JayeRitch being "obsessed with finding the answer". He won't find the
answer. The best we can do is "draw our own conclusions" if our
obsession leads us to think that's necessary.
Matt Silberstein wrote:
> >
> Yes, but in that kind of crime there you usually find a relationship
> between the feeling and the killing/treatment of the body. Adena was
> killed by hate, particularly hate of the victim. If the Araber had
> done it (I don't think he did, btw) I think he would have treated the
> body with kindness.
>
> [snip]
>
> Matt Silberstein
> -----------------------------
> And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
> protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
> Lives, Our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
>
> T.J.
--
“No interesting project can be embarked upon without fear. I shall be
scared to death half the time.”
--Sir Frances Chichester in Sydney
Matt Silberstein wrote:
> In alt.tv.homicide I read this message from luna...@aol.com (Luna
> Vudu):
>
> >Jaye wrote:
> >>I know the Araber said he loved Adena, he also said he never touched her, and
> >>I wondered, if he did kill her, why? Also, why would he mulitate her body
> >that
> >>way?
> >
> >Frustrated love can express itself in a lot of not so loving ways. Love is not
> >a guarantee against violence.
> >
> Yes, but in that kind of crime there you usually find a relationship
> between the feeling and the killing/treatment of the body. Adena was
> killed by hate, particularly hate of the victim. If the Araber had
> done it (I don't think he did, btw) I think he would have treated the
> body with kindness.
>
> [snip]
>
I don't agree with that last statement, especially if the Araber did indeed have a
drink that night and murdered Adena in some kind of twisted drunken rage and ended
up blacking out afterwards. By the way, he may have felt love for Adena, but he
hated himself for having those feelings. Thus, while murdering Adena, he would be
projecting his self-hatred onto her. To me, the whole scenario in the box told me
that the Araber knew he was responsible, but he simply could not(or didn't want to)
remember actually killing Adena. His emotions and feelings towards Adena were
strong enough to make him capable of murder, and a few drinks could have been what
pushed him over the edge. So, he kills her, blacks out, then when he comes to, he
realizes what he's done and carries her body into someone's backyard because he did
feel that need to protect her from stray dogs and other things. So, in a way, I
agree that the Araber's feelings would have made him treat Adena's body with
kindness, unfortunately, he only did so after the damage was already done.
-Kay
Shelshka wrote:
>
> Kayleigh19 wrote in message
> <19990624000115...@ng-fe1.aol.com>...
>
> I want a lawyer.
>
Borgy wants a lawyer, quiddity wants a pilot, TVFan wants Kay...
Demanding bunch in this group huh? A.t.h.---we speak for those who
can't want for themselves.
>This is a very good point and it upsets me to hear it; that's how good
>it is. I thought I had it solved, that the Araber was the culprit, but
>this is true. He wouldn't have mutilated her. That just goes against
>reason.
Not necessarily. Mutilation in this type of slaying is usually for sexual
satisfaction, a substitute for penetration. If the Araber was a pedophile,
love would include desire. If the Araber was a sexual
psychopath/sociopath/<insert current term in use here> as well as a
pedophile, he might very well have consummated his relationship with Adena
in just this way.
Shelshka
RC Borgia
>I like that theory. And it's possible that he may be in so much
guilt-driven
>denial over what he's done that he honestly believes he didn't kill her,
and we
>all know that the most convincing lies are the ones the liar himself
>believes...
It's also possible that he treasures the memory of murdering her because he
finds it sexually exciting, and relives the moment by fondling her missing
heart-shaped earring.
Shelshka
RC Borgia
>
>
>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>
>> In alt.tv.homicide I read this message from luna...@aol.com (Luna
>> Vudu):
>>
>> >Jaye wrote:
>> >>I know the Araber said he loved Adena, he also said he never touched her, and
>> >>I wondered, if he did kill her, why? Also, why would he mulitate her body
>> >that
>> >>way?
>> >
>> >Frustrated love can express itself in a lot of not so loving ways. Love is not
>> >a guarantee against violence.
>> >
>> Yes, but in that kind of crime there you usually find a relationship
>> between the feeling and the killing/treatment of the body. Adena was
>> killed by hate, particularly hate of the victim. If the Araber had
>> done it (I don't think he did, btw) I think he would have treated the
>> body with kindness.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>
>I don't agree with that last statement, especially if the Araber did indeed have a
>drink that night and murdered Adena in some kind of twisted drunken rage and ended
>up blacking out afterwards. By the way, he may have felt love for Adena, but he
>hated himself for having those feelings. Thus, while murdering Adena, he would be
>projecting his self-hatred onto her.
Agreed, but I did not see that kind of hate in him. And of course the
killing would be a projection of a self-hatred. But he seemed to have
a specific love for her. If he had done it, I would expect the body to
be treated well after: placed nicely, well dressed (remember his
points about her being neat), etc.
> To me, the whole scenario in the box told me
>that the Araber knew he was responsible, but he simply could not(or didn't want to)
>remember actually killing Adena. His emotions and feelings towards Adena were
>strong enough to make him capable of murder, and a few drinks could have been what
>pushed him over the edge.
And I saw him almost wanting to confess, but not being guilty.
> So, he kills her, blacks out, then when he comes to, he
>realizes what he's done and carries her body into someone's backyard because he did
>feel that need to protect her from stray dogs and other things.
Good point, but, again, I would expect him to give it more protection
than that.
> So, in a way, I
>agree that the Araber's feelings would have made him treat Adena's body with
>kindness, unfortunately, he only did so after the damage was already done.
>
I would think he would straighten the clothes and make strong attempts
to get it to look right.
I like that theory. And it's possible that he may be in so much guilt-driven
denial over what he's done that he honestly believes he didn't kill her, and we
all know that the most convincing lies are the ones the liar himself
believes...
open-endedly, luna
* "It would be a stronger world, a stronger loving world, to die in."
--
"There are your fog people and your sun people, he said. I said I wasn't sure
which kind I was. He nodded. Fog'll do that to you, he said."
You know, now that you've pointed this out, I kind of think it actually
implicates him for the murder... If he could go from this overwhelmingly
intense interrogation, this huge period of emotional stress, and just calmly,
unshakenly watch TV, isn't it a sort of sign that he's shutting things out?
And if he can shut that out, it sort of suggests that he may have really
blocked out killing Adena.
Um, was that at all coherent? I'm tired...
derivingly, luna
* "Red sauce has been taken over by the Protestants."
On the discussion about whether the Araber did it, if you would like
to read an excellent review of "Three Men and Adena" try this one by
Bob Chase written 7/12/96:
<ftp://members.aol.com/bobtard/HLOTS/96_0712.txt>
--
Dave | dave...@bigfoot.com | "You got your dark side, and it
terrifies you, and it frightens you. It scares you 'cause it's
powerful and it makes you capable of doing anything. Anything.
Without it, you look in the mirror, and all you see is an am-a-teur."
-- the Araber (played by Moses Gunn)
The episode started out with Bayliss in the coffee room staring blankly
at the t.v., so maybe it was meant to be a metaphor for futility--or
maybe I'm looking too deep and they just wanted to the end the ep where
it began.
Pamela
--
"Writing is nothing to be ashamed of, as long as you do
it in private and wash your hands afterwards." Robert A. Heinlein
Yes, but there is no evidence suggesting he is a sexual psychopath.
The evidence we do have points in a different direction. No one denies
that some killer would have mutilated the body like that, but some do
question whether the Araber, were he the killer, would have done it
that way. Do you see evidence that he was psychopathic?
You're right; there's little evidence of that. But his story of the New
York experience indicates a lot of buried rage. That proves nothing by
itself, but added with the soot on Adena's skirt which was never
explained, and his obvious fixation with her, it does make him the
number one suspect. The point is, it was never solved because there
wasn't enough physical evidence. But just as the heavy circumstantial
evidence pointed to the Fishman in the book, it pointed to Risley Tucker
in HLotS.
Can't tell if you're kidding or brave...anyway, the series Homicide is
based on the book Homicide by journalist David Simon.
Martin
Go here to order it
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0804109990/o/qid=930341860/sr=2-1/002-9014841-8369458
I just want to be loved. Is there anything wrong with that?
victoria
oh god, I'm channeling Harvey Fierstein [sp?] - kill me now.
--
"I'm an extraordinary bitching pain in the ass." Beau Felton, _Homicide:
Life on the Street_
The book is Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets by David Simon. It
is what Homicide: Life on the Street was based on. Marvelous book.
Matt Silberstein wrote:
> > So, in a way, I
> >agree that the Araber's feelings would have made him treat Adena's body with
> >kindness, unfortunately, he only did so after the damage was already done.
> >
> I would think he would straighten the clothes and make strong attempts
> to get it to look right.
>
From what I remember of "Gone for Goode" and "Ghost of a Chance," whoever placed Adena's
body in the alley did take time to make it look right. Don't you remember the way her
little red raincoat was neatly draped over her body in almost a protective manner?
That, and the fact that Adena's body was placed inside a fenced yard tells me the killer
did make an effort to protect her, and I do believe it was the Araber who is responsible
for all this. He couldn't really have done much more to "protect" Adena anyway since he
wanted her to be placed somewhere where she would be found and taken care of right away,
yet he knew that someone might see him if he took too long placing the body there. So
draping the raincoat over her body was just a simple, and quick, way of sheltering her.
-Kay
Maybe you're channeling Jon Lovitz as Harvey Fierstein [sp?]. *Much*
cooler.
Keith
I'll grasp that straw. I feel better now.
victoria
I was just at Borders this afternoon with my 13-year-old son, to pick up summer
reading books. He asked if he could read "The Book," and we were happy to find
it right there on the Social Sciences shelf. He is already matching up the
real folk with the TV folk. He asked if there was someplace on the web to look
up the connections, but now I think he's enjoying his own detective work more.
I won't get to read it until he's finished. *Sigh* Fortunately, he's a fast
reader!
Martha K.
[snip]
>
>From what I remember of "Gone for Goode" and "Ghost of a Chance," whoever placed Adena's
>body in the alley did take time to make it look right. Don't you remember the way her
>little red raincoat was neatly draped over her body in almost a protective manner?
No, I did not. I am about to start over and look at the first four or
five in a row. You might have something here.
[snip]
Matt Silberstein
-------------------------------------------------------
I would sooner believe a yankee professor would lie
than stones would fall from the heavens.
Thomas Jefferson