The Luther Mahoney Shooting
Nancy Charbonneau
shooting? That was the one night I MISSED and it seems everything and
everyone changed after that....
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Nan in Calgary
Todd
<nan...@spots.ab.ca> thus spake:
If you don't wish to see the space-time continuum unravel, I suggest
you drop this issue.
Todd
DirtyDog
ever? Luther finally gets what's coming to him, plus it's a defining
moment for Lewis, Stivers and Kellerman.
--
He sure LOOKED like a friendly dog
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
La Reina
What, and miss out on the Great-Grandson of Deception thread? Or would that be
Great-Great-Grandson by now?
Reina De Paréntesis
Tryan6
>What, and miss out on the Great-Grandson of Deception thread? Or would that
>be
>Great-Great-Grandson by now?
I think it's great-great, by now. Unfortunately, a Deception thread just will
not have the same impact without our most vocal clean shoot supporter, Petey.
Previous attempts at drawing him out of seclusion with such topics as granny
panties, scantily clad, loose women, threats of search teams with dogs and
other Deception related topics have failed. But I'll give it one last shot. If
this doesn't work, nothing will: IT WAS A BAD SHOOT!
Jamie
(I know, different than my previous opinion, but what the hell...)
Unhur...@webtv.net
> Previous attempts at drawing [Pete] out of seclusion with such topics as granny
> panties, scantily clad, loose women, threats of search teams with dogs and
> other Deception related topics have failed.
You realize, Pete was known to be a huge admirer of Nicole Kidman. Now, you
don't suppose there could be a connection...
--
Unhurried1
~~~~~~~
"I've done something with my life; I've made kids happy around the world."
-- Walter E. Diemer (1905-1998), inventor of bubble gum
~~~~~~~
BubbazMom
>be
>Great-Great-Grandson by now?
>
>
I think we're into the 20th generation or so of this thread. It's been done to
death (pun
intended).
Cheryl
Tryan6
>You realize, Pete was known to be a huge admirer of Nicole Kidman. Now, you
>don't suppose there could be a connection...
Well, it does seem more likely a solution than my previous theory of him being
captured and held as a POW by a rebel band of previously flamed trolls...
Jamie
Nancy Charbonneau
Searched all over and never found a detailed description. And as it's already
aired here, the chances of it airing again are slim.
And as I don't know any Homicide fans, guess I'll never know. <sigh>
Thanks anyway.
Nan in Calgary
Nancy Charbonneau
Todd wrote:
> If you don't wish to see the space-time continuum unravel, I suggest
> you drop this issue.
>
Ah, but my space-time continuum constantly unravels - I travel lightly,
back and forth. My vacillation is not necessarily my choice....
Nan in Calgary
Tryan6
>Sorry, if it's been done to death, but I don't know where else to find out.
>Searched all over and never found a detailed description. And as it's
>already
>aired here, the chances of it airing again are slim.
Search Deja.com for threads titled "Deception", "son of Deception" and
"Grandson of Deception." Those should help you out.
Jamie
EV-1
should be encouraged. Or we could ...
I've been thinking about being accosted for not reading the FAQ. I think
that the beauty (for me) of the internet is, the freedom and anarchy of NOT
reading FAQs, of not being the shy quite one in the corner, of stating my
opinions without the usual restraints etc.
Oh well, that's just me.
"When I was a little boy they called me a liar but now that I am a grown up
they call me a creative person."
"Nancy Charbonneau" <nan...@spots.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:3A882172...@spots.ab.ca...
EV-1
"Nancy Charbonneau" <nan...@spots.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:3A8555CF...@spots.ab.ca...
catherine yronwode
Previously on Homicide: Mikey shot Luther Mahoney. It was a clean shoot.
Stivers and Meldrick didn't stand by him. Peach-boy hounded Mikey.
Goergie Rae houdned Mikey. Mikey had his hair cut short. He became
psychotic. The series ended. Badly.
cat yronwode
snarkygirl
>I may be out of line, but I think people with new (to them) information
>should be encouraged. Or we could ...
I've been posting a lot of new-to-me info and observation and haven't
had an adverse reaction. But I do understand that feedback will be
sparse as the few people left here have said and done it all before
but that doesn't put me of as I'm a persistent little thing.
The Deception thing though is a totally different matter as it's been
done to death, revived, beaten about the head a bit more and quite
frankly exhausted. You can take one of two positions and then argue it
forever and still get nowhere. At least in discussing the relationship
of Bayliss and Pembleton, the issue has many different facets.
>I've been thinking about being accosted for not reading the FAQ. I think
>that the beauty (for me) of the internet is, the freedom and anarchy of NOT
>reading FAQs, of not being the shy quite one in the corner, of stating my
>opinions without the usual restraints etc.
You *can* state your opinions without restraint. If you make an
articulate and intelligent post you may get a reply but then again,
you might not (hey I've made lots of articulate and intelligent
comments that went unnoticed <g>). Posting gibberish is a different
matter entirely
snarkygirl
never knowingly posts gibberish (but does occasionally post
half-asleep)
Mardelle
>I may be out of line, but I think people with new (to them) information
>should be encouraged.
I agree, and know that more than one person e-mailed Nancy directly with
information and suggestions for lines of research. We need "new blood" and
fresh enthusiasm.
Having been with HlotS for the long haul, I understand, though, the reluctance
of getting into territory gone dry. I hear the word "deception" and my skin
crawls.
>I've been thinking about being accosted for not reading the FAQ. I think
>that the beauty (for me) of the internet is, the freedom and anarchy of NOT
>reading FAQs, of not being the shy quite one in the corner, of stating my
>opinions without the usual restraints etc.
The net is relatively new territory, and I find it interesting that a community
has developed in most newsgroups, reflecting many experiences in common. It's a
little like a cocktail party, where the regulars know the background of the
attendees and are eager to begin from there with new news and opinions.
I think it's just courteous of someone dropping into the party to read up on
this history and to hang back a little until he/she can contribute something
unique. Maybe someone w/o a knowledge of the facts can come up with a fresh
point of view, but more likely, it's just a re-statement of something that's
been said before -- many times.
Mardelle
P.S. Anybody see the HBO promos for "Boycott" directed by Clark Johnson? He's
lookin good. Premieres Sat, Feb 24. Check out the "Links."
snarkygirl
>Nancy Charbonneau wrote:
>>
>> Can someone please tell me (in detail) about the Luther Mahoney
>> shooting? That was the one night I MISSED and it seems everything and
>> everyone changed after that....
>>
>> Thank you, thank you, thank you!
>>
>> Nan in Calgary
>
>Previously on Homicide: Mikey shot Luther Mahoney. It was a clean shoot.
>Stivers and Meldrick didn't stand by him. Peach-boy hounded Mikey.
>Goergie Rae houdned Mikey. Mikey had his hair cut short.
Which for me was the highlight of season 6. How sad is that?
> He became
>psychotic. The series ended. Badly.
So badly that Catherine has omitted to mention season 7 (who can blame
her) where Tim was lost, Falsone failed to get lost, Munch and Lewis
figured they'd switch personalities with some mean people, Naomi
Campbell, sorry Sheppard, turned up, Gee's son arrived making us all
wonder how the great man spawned such a weasel and the end was...well
the end.
For more sensible episode guides go to:
http://www.epguides.com/HomicideLifeontheStreet/
Or you can read the Deception script at Laurel Kranh's excellent
scripts site:
http://www.windowseat.org/homicide/scripts/
And for *everything* else Homicide
http://members.aol.com/hlotslinks/
snarkygirl
feeling all public service-like
Bolander3
>P.S. Anybody see the HBO promos for "Boycott" directed by Clark Johnson? He's
>lookin good. Premieres Sat, Feb 24. Check out the "Links."
>
Anybody want to tape it for me? I'm po' and can't afford the HBO this
semester, but I'd love to see it.
Jess
Mardelle
I will tape "Boycott" for you --but I've been known to screw up the taping, so
if someone else volunteers, don't turn them down.
Marking my calendar right now. Send me your mailing address,
fondly,
Mardelle
Nancy Charbonneau
contravened that "law".
I've been unemployed for the past few months and have been watching TV more than I
ever have in my life!
I started watching Homicide just because it was there - at first I hated the
characters because I thought they were callous and mean, but my boyfriend convinced
me it was worth watching.
I'm glad he did.
Here I am, naked in Calgary
Nan
Shelshka
<c...@luckymojo.com> wrote:
>Nancy Charbonneau wrote:
>>
>> Can someone please tell me (in detail) about the Luther Mahoney
>> shooting? That was the one night I MISSED and it seems everything and
>> everyone changed after that....
>
>Previously on Homicide: Mikey shot Luther Mahoney. It was a clean shoot.
>Stivers and Meldrick didn't stand by him. Peach-boy hounded Mikey.
>Goergie Rae houdned Mikey. Mikey had his hair cut short. He became
>psychotic. The series ended. Badly.
Succinctly put.
--
Shel
RCB
Todd
thus spake:
Succinctly put even though incorrect. Cold-blooded murder doesn't
count as a "clean shoot" any more than armed robbery counts as
"borrowing."
Todd
Tryan6
>
>Succinctly put even though incorrect. Cold-blooded murder doesn't
>count as a "clean shoot" any more than armed robbery counts as
>"borrowing."
>
While the facts as you typed them do in fact, have a truth to them, they are
incorrect because the shoot was clean...
Jamie
Plaid Squirrel
>>Previously on Homicide: Mikey shot Luther Mahoney. It was a clean shoot.
>>Stivers and Meldrick didn't stand by him. Peach-boy hounded Mikey.
>>Goergie Rae houdned Mikey. Mikey had his hair cut short. He became
>>psychotic. The series ended. Badly.
But then Shel said-
>Succinctly put.
>
>--
>Shel
>RCB
I love you guys.
Cheese :-D
who agrees with the both of you. no really. look it's complicated but not
impossible.
Todd
I didn't know the Rampart Division had sent a representative to ath.
Todd
Tryan6
>I didn't know the Rampart Division had sent a representative to ath.
Rampart would have taken Luther out much, much sooner. And they wouldn't have
done it in anyway that was even remotely near a shade of gray.
Luther failed to comply with direct orders to drop his weapon. A firearm in
one's hand is a threat to life. Mikey neutralized the threat. The only thing
that even remotely puts it up for debate is the mindset of Kellerman. Does he
still shoot him if the gun is dropped? Did he even care that the gun was there?
Did he feel a threat? Those are all the factors in play and you can't "Monday
morning quaterback" the decision to use lethal force. It is based on the mind
of the officer at the time of the incident, not before or after.
Lewis, on the other hand, was out of line. There is no shade of gray there. He
was beating an unarmed and non-resistive person. You could actually look at
Luther's grabbing of the gun away from Lewis as an act of self defense. lewis'
actions were totally inappropriate, not only because he beat a suspect, but
because he put Stivers and Kellermen and the general public at risk by screwing
up and allowing his gun to fall in the hands of a dangerous felon.
Jamie
Tryan6
>I love you guys.
Okay, quick...who do you love more? Me or Todd? This is important...
Jamie
Jennifer Hardy
>On 17 Feb 2001 22:53:19 GMT, try...@aol.com (Tryan6) thus spake:
>
>>Todd wrongly stated:
>>
>>>
>>>Succinctly put even though incorrect. Cold-blooded murder doesn't
>>>count as a "clean shoot" any more than armed robbery counts as
>>>"borrowing."
>>>
>>
>>While the facts as you typed them do in fact, have a truth to them, they are
>>incorrect because the shoot was clean...
Eh...you're both right.
It was *ruled* a clean shoot by the official
people-who-rule-on-clean-shoots, but I believe the writers made it
glaringly obvious that it wasn't a clean shoot. What with Luther
surrendering and all and the ensuing greek tragedy starring Lewis,
Kellerman and Stivers about the fact that it *wasn't*, you know, a
clean shoot. Oh, and Stivers' little conversation with Gee and
Pembleton taking Mikey's gun and badge and whatnot.
So there.
Cheers,
Jennifer
Martha K.
>Cheese Girl said:
>
>
>>I love you guys.
>
>Okay, quick...who do you love more? Me or Todd? This is important...
>
Nobody seems to care who *I* love more.
Sigh.
Martha K.
Plaid Squirrel
You but don't tell Todd I said so. ;-)
I talk to you off group more than any other member. I'm not opposed to
conversing with the rest of the group though. Anyone (who likes me) should feel
free to e-mail me at Plaid Squirrel or IM me at Uphesuchease.
Cheese :-D
All we are is a lot of talking nitrogen.
--Arthur Miller
Tryan6
>Nobody seems to care who *I* love more.
>
>Sigh.
Okay, quick...who do you love more? Me or Todd? This is important...
Jamie
Tryan6
>You but don't tell Todd I said so. ;-)
Whoo-hoo!
>I talk to you off group more than any other member.
Not that I've heard much from you recently, however...
Jamie
Tryan6
>Eh...you're both right.
>
>It was *ruled* a clean shoot by the official
>people-who-rule-on-clean-shoots, but I believe the writers made it
>glaringly obvious that it wasn't a clean shoot. What with Luther
>surrendering and all and the ensuing greek tragedy starring Lewis,
>Kellerman and Stivers about the fact that it *wasn't*, you know, a
>clean shoot. Oh, and Stivers' little conversation with Gee and
>Pembleton taking Mikey's gun and badge and whatnot.
Luther did not surrender, the gun was still in his hand. He was continuing to
fail to obey Mikey's orders to drop the gun. There would have been no question
of clean or not if Mikey had blasted his ass as soon as they walked in the
door, but he chose to wait and give orders. The only issue still remains
Mikey's mindset at the time he squeezed the trigger.
Jamie
Kellerman was railroaded out based on his behavior afterward
Mardelle
Journal, 2-17-01, may be of interest to the group.
Mardelle
______________________________
JANUARY SHOOTING: Inquest clears officers
Police actions in confrontation with schizophrenic man are ruled justified
Rookie Las Vegas police officer Won Cho did his best to keep his composure
while testifying Friday before a coroner's jury.
He paused frequently for deep breaths while describing how he and other
officers used batons, pepper spray and shotgun-fired beanbag rounds in trying
to subdue a crazed man with a knife.
Trying to stifle tears, the six-month officer slowed his speech when he raised
his arms to show jurors how he aimed his handgun at David Herrera during last
month's standoff.
But when he recounted watching a fellow officer a few feet away fire fatal
shots at Herrera, Cho broke down in the middle of the courtroom.
"We kept saying drop the knife ... We didn't think it was going to go that
far," he said while crying. "We thought we could probably talk him out of it."
The coroner's inquest into the death of Herrera, a 27-year-old schizophrenic
man killed by police just outside his southeast valley home, ended Friday
afternoon when a jury of six women and one man ruled police were justified in
their actions. They deliberated about 40 minutes.
Five police officers who testified at the inquest said they did everything they
could Jan. 17 to get Herrera to drop a 9-inch butcher knife before eight-year
officer Al Woodruff fired five shots at him from a .40-caliber pistol.
"He told me I was going to have to kill him. ... I was scared," Woodruff
testified. "I didn't want to kill him ... but I thought he was going to stab me
with the knife."
Police were called to Herrera's home at 4943 Terra Circle, near Tropicana
Avenue and Nellis Boulevard, about noon to assist two state mental health
workers who had decided to hospitalize Herrera.
The workers had been summoned by Herrera's mother because her son, who had
recently stopped taking his anti-psychotic medications, was frightening her and
her other two children.
"David came out from a bedroom. He had shaved his head and now had a beard,"
said Maurice Silva, a case worker for Southern Nevada Adult Mental Health
Services. "He was yelling at us incoherently and saying religious things ...
something about Muslims, and he had a 4-inch paring knife in his hand."
Silva said Herrera cursed at them, refused their help and ordered them away.
Determining that Herrera -- described as 6-feet, 210 pounds -- was a danger to
himself and others, Silva and a nurse left the house and called for help.
Police dispatchers simultaneously received a 911 call from Herrera's mother,
who went outside shortly after.
Cho and three other officers arrived separately. While knocking on the door,
they heard incoherent yelling inside, but Herrera would not come to the door.
After a supervising sergeant arrived, the officers obtained the house's key
from Herrera's mother and armed themselves with pepper spray and a 12-gauge
shotgun that fires beanbags.
Cho said he unlocked the door and began opening it, but it was slammed shut by
Herrera from the inside. When police forcibly opened it, they found Herrera
standing just inside the doorway.
"It was all happening in slow motion," Cho said. "I remember this big guy
holding a knife in his hand and a phone, and he was talking to someone, saying,
'They're going to kill me.' "
The five officers all testified they stepped back several feet from the door
and commanded Herrera to put down the knife, a large butcher blade about twice
the size of the knife he had before.
Woodruff said he fired four beanbag shots that struck Herrera in the center of
his chest, knocking him to one knee.
"It's like there was no pain. He didn't scream," officer Sean Malia told the
jury of the beanbag shots that police have successfully used for three years in
stopping assailants. "He fell backwards a bit, but that was it ... Then he
said, 'You're going to have to kill me.' "
Two officers approached him with batons. One of the officers swung at Herrera's
hand to knock the knife away. Cho said they retreated and drew their firearms
when Herrera swung the knife and got up.
The officers testified that when Herrera rose, the knife was then held at
shoulder level and had been adjusted into a stabbing position.
Sgt. Juanita Goode then sprayed Herrera's face with about 12 ounces of pepper
spray, but the officers said the liquid, which subdues most suspects in
quantities of 2 to 3 ounces, seemed to have no effect on Herrera.
"He didn't even rub his eyes," Malia said.
Herrera continued toward them slowly and Woodruff fired two live rounds into
his chest.
"He never jumped or lunged or ran, but he kept coming closer at us aggressively
with the knife," officer Eric Heindel said.
Because Herrera did not stop advancing or drop the knife, Woodruff fired three
additional shots at him. Herrera collapsed, but still did not let go of the
knife, prompting officers to kick it away while calling for paramedics.
The other officers told jury members they would have or were about to do the
same thing as Woodruff. They also testified they believe there was no other way
to safely end the standoff.
Lt. Tom Conlin, a Metropolitan Police Department trainer who was not at the
shooting, told the jury that there are some "highly motivated individuals" who
cannot be subdued with pepper spray or beanbag rounds, most of whom suffer from
emotional instability or are on drugs.
Conlin said about 8 percent of the population is not affected by pepper spray,
which attacks mucus membranes and usually causes difficulty breathing and
seeing, tearing and skin irritation.
Friday's decision clearing the officers continues a long streak in the outcome
of coroner's inquests -- legal proceedings similar to trials in which a
seven-member jury must determine whether the actions of police are justified,
excusable or criminally negligent.
In the 25 years for which records are available, coroner's juries have only
returned one criminal verdict against police, and that was later overturned by
a grand jury.
Civil libertarians have criticized Clark County's inquest system, complaining
it heavily favors police and represents several conflicts of interest.
Tryan6
to be discussed now since it was determined clean. The article is from the San
Mateo County Times and about this shooting and various other problems we've had
on that street...
Jamie
__________________________________
Violent crime plagues Daly City street
February 29, 2000
By Laura Linden
STAFF WRITER
DALY CITY -- Police shot and killed the son of a woman who had called them to
her house early Monday on Higate Drive.
Police said the man, 40-year-old Antony Ramos, had lunged at them and waved a
knife when they confronted him in a stairwell.
It is the sixth killing on that street in less than two years, a fact not lost
on Allen Simmrin, who has lived on Higate since 1958.
"What the hell kind of street are we living on?" the 83-year-old man said.
The three officer's involved in Monday's shooting - all of whom are now on paid
leave - were sent to the house after getting a call about 1:45 a.m. that Ramos
had threatened to kill his mother.
Police found Ramos locked in a stairwell by his older brother.
Officer Tim Murphy entered the stairwell, attempting to talk to Ramos, followed
by officers Ron Harrison and Jeff Rodriguez, police said. Ramos lunged at the
officers with a six-inch kitchen knife in hand, police said. Murphy attempted
to force Ramos back down the stairs, police said, losing his footing in the
process.
Ramos continued to wave the knife, prompting Harrison and Rodriguez to shoot
him several times, according to police. He was pronounced dead on the scene.
Ramos lived in a converted garage downstairs, police said, and his mother,
brother and 12-year-old sister lived upstairs.
Neighbors said they had lived on the street for a long time.
District Attorney Jim Fox said two people from his office were summoned to the
crime scene at 3 a.m. Monday morning. His office will determine whether the
officers were right to shoot Ramos, and the police will conduct its own
investigation with the same question in mind.
Fox said his office's investigation would take two months, depending on when
the coroner releases the autopsy report.
Police said they visited Ramos' house for the first time last November, when
Ramos and his brother were fighting. But, it wasn't the first time police had
been called to incidents on the street.
A string of killings has occurred at homes within a six block stretch.
In June 1998, three young girls were smothered inside their Higate Drive home.
The girls' mother, Megan Hogg, pleaded no contest in August to three counts of
murder.
In June of 1999, Edwin and Cecilia Pagaduan were gunned down in their house on
Higate Drive. Their son, Joseph Pagaduan, 19, has been charged with two counts
of murder with special circumstances in the killings and faces arraignment
March 9.
And police said another Higate Drive resident is facing attempted murder
charges for a shooting that occurred less than three months ago. The man is
suspected of shooting his friend in the leg after an argument, police said.
"There's been a lot of tragedy on this street," said longtime resident Peggy
Lupisan.
She and other residents said the neighborhood is usually quiet.
"I'll tell you something. In all the years I've lived here this is the first
series of crimes," said Simmrin. "Other than this, we've had nothing here,
nothing at all."
A neighbor of Ramos' who declined to give his name said he was shocked by his
death. He said he grew up with Ramos and was surprised to hear of his alleged
behavior before he was killed by police.
"That doesn't sound like him at all," he said.
Martha K.
Well, since you asked, I guess I'd have to say Todd. I always go for those
black-hearted types. And there was that memorable weekend in Las Vegas. . .
Martha K.
Tryan6
>Well, since you asked, I guess I'd have to say Todd. I always go for those
>black-hearted types. And there was that memorable weekend in Las Vegas. .
See, that's why I didn't ask. I already knew the answer....
Jamie
Todd
very different than the Mahoney case. One has to wonder if any of the
officers stopped to taunt their respective suspects as Kellerman did.
There's no doubt about his mind-set.
Todd
On 18 Feb 2001 23:44:33 GMT, try...@aol.com (Tryan6) thus spake:
Tryan6
>In both cited stories the suspect was lunging at officers.
Lunging is an understatement on the one from my department. The officer that
had attempted to force the suspect back down the stairs had lost his footing
and was flat on his back on the stairs. The suspect was shot and killed as he
brought the knife up in a stabbing motion while standing over the fallen
officer while yelling "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" That case was actually
highly criticized on the talk radio circuit. One radio personality called it
"the summary execution of the mentally handicapped." We were criticized and
asked why a "net couldn't have been tossed over him", "it was just a knife" and
"couldn't they have used the bean-bag shotgun". It was all a bunch of bullshit
from clueless people, but even in something so obviously cut and dry, some
people still found ways to say we were wrong. And in fact, he was not mentally
handicapped, he was on a methamphetemines induced rage.
>One has to wonder if any of the
>officers stopped to taunt their respective suspects as Kellerman did
It was Mahoney that was doping the taunting. Kellerman's words were appropriate
prior to shooting, his actions afterwards, understandable. Mostly I'm arguing
for the sake of arguing because the writers make it clears what is in Mikey's
mind when he pulls the trigger with the line "you have the right to remain
silent" and his follow-up line asking Stivers and Lewis if they had a problem
with it. He knew that what he did was not necessarily right and that shows that
his mindset was not one of fear and the immediate preservation of life.
My argument is that the Pembleton/Falsone interview of Kellerman at the end did
not prove him to be wrong. Just because the gun was lowered, does not mean that
the threat was eliminated. It still posed a great threat, no matter which way
it was pointed. Just as in the case I cited here from my department, It really
doesn't matter what the suspect was doing with the knife as he advanced on the
fallen officer. The mere fact that he continued to advance with a deadly weapon
despite orders to drop it made him a threat. He could have been holding the
knife at his side, but if the officers felt there was a threat, they would have
still been in the right to shoot him.
Jamie
Mardelle
>In both cited stories the suspect was lunging at officers. This is
>very different than the Mahoney case.
Yes, if the officers are to be believed. I think the important information was
contained in the following two paragraphs:
Patrick
>The only thing
>that . . . puts it up for debate is the mindset of Kellerman. Does he
>still shoot him if the gun is dropped? Did he even care that the gun was there?
>Did he feel a threat? Those are all the factors in play and you can't "Monday
>morning quaterback" the decision to use lethal force. It is based on the mind
>of the officer at the time of the incident, not before or after.
>Lewis, on the other hand, was out of line. There is no shade of gray there. He
>was beating an unarmed and non-resistive person. You could actually look at
>Luther's grabbing of the gun away from Lewis as an act of self defense. lewis'
>actions were totally inappropriate, not only because he beat a suspect, but
>because he put Stivers and Kellermen and the general public at risk by screwing
>up and allowing his gun to fall in the hands of a dangerous felon.
and then on 19 Feb 2001 07:05:40 GMT, try...@aol.com (Tryan6) wrote:
[snip]
>the writers make it clears what is in Mikey's
>mind when he pulls the trigger with the line "you have the right to remain
>silent" and his follow-up line asking Stivers and Lewis if they had a problem
>with it. He knew that what he did was not necessarily right and that shows that
>his mindset was not one of fear and the immediate preservation of life.
>
>My argument is that the Pembleton/Falsone interview of Kellerman at the end did
>not prove him to be wrong. Just because the gun was lowered, does not mean that
>the threat was eliminated.
Well said on all counts. The objective circumstances were consistent
with a clean shoot. 99% of the time, that's the end of the story --
the shooter will say all the right things about *why* s/he fired,
nobody will have any evidence to the contrary, the shooter will get
the benefit of the doubt, and the shoot will be ruled clean.
But if there *is* evidence of a bad mental state on the part of the
shooter, the mere fact that the objective circumstances would have
justified the shooting won't immunize the shooter from a murder
prosecution. We all saw what was in effect a videotape of the Mahoney
shooting, a type of evidence that, until recently anyway, has very
rarely been available. And what we saw created (and was undoubtedly
intended to create) serious questions about Mike's mental state.
Danvers and his pals would not have had the videotape to use against
Mike, of course, but they could have had evidence of lots of
post-shooting conduct by Mike, Meldrick, and Stivers to show that
*they* thought it was a bad shoot. Since mental state is the only
issue, what they thought would have been very significant.
I also agree that the whole thing was Meldrick's fault more than
Mike's in so many ways. In addition to what you've said above, IMO
the screw-ups in the immediate aftermath of the shooting were mostly
Meldrick's fault. As the senior guy on site, Meldrick should have
gotten Mike under control and told him to write up the objective
circumstances exactly as they happened. If Mike had done that (and
had said all the obvious things about *why* he had shot Luther), we
the viewing public would have been spared the whole sorry post-shoot
saga. No ruination of the Mike/Meldrick partnership. No Georgia Rae
Mahoney. No covert war on the Mahoney crew. No prying Falsone. No
gut-spilling Stivers. No confrontation in the box. No forced
Kellerman resignation. No Pembleton resignation. Hell, we'd probably
all be enjoying the season 9 February sweeps episodes right now. And
it's all basically Meldrick's fault. 8^)
I further agree that Frank never got any actual proof that the shoot
was bad just because he got an admission that Luther's gun was pointed
down. But what he presumably also got (I have to say presumably only
because we never saw the actual post-shooting reports) was an implied
admission that there had been a cover-up. That would have been enough
to convince him that *Mike* thought it was a bad shoot, and hence that
it *was* a bad shoot. It's an interesting question whether a jury
would have followed that line of thinking. It might have depended on
whether Luther was viewed in the community as a regular bad guy or as
a *celebrity* bad guy.
--Patrick
loves Meldrick anyway
catherine yronwode
>
> Kellerman was railroaded out based on his behavior afterward
Absolutely. It was an injustice -- but worse, outside of the fictional
premise, it was BAD PLOTTING AND BAD SCRIPTING.
cat (reading this newsgroup is like watching a train wreck) yronwode
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice -- http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodoo.html
Tryan6
Thanks Mr. Prosecuter. And I return the same compliment, you were able to
clarify some points I had there, but just didn't put them in the right words.
Mikey had certain buzz words he would have told investigators and they would
have stood, regardless of which direction Luther was pointing the gun. I'm sure
he told the investigators that he was in fear or either his life, the life of
Lewis or Stivers or all three and that he shoot based on this and Luther's
reluctance to drop the gun and since Lewis and Stivers didn't contridict him,
it was ruled clean. The facts were there to make it a clean shoot, but Mikey's
own actions showed that he had his own reasons to shoot and believed that he
was in the wrong. Meldrick had additional responsibilities on scene as the
senior officer present, but he also had a lot to loose because his own actions
were so glaringly over the top. he tells the truth about what happend and he's
gone too. His actions are the catalyst for everything that occurred. He got his
gun took. Luther would not have been standing there with a gun if Lewis had
done the correct thing and arrested him. Though there would have been problems
with that arrest I suspect as Lewis entered without a warrant and it didn't
quite meet fresh pursuit, so I suspect thata judge may have tossed it based on
a Ramsey violation...
Jamie
also loves Meldrick anyway
Todd
If a man is de-escalating a situation, the officers should give him
that opportunity. Kellerman did not fire at the proper time. He
walked in on a man POINTING a gun at his partner yet stood there
giving him orders. That is when he should have fired. Surely you
don't intend to use the so-called death reflex argument that Petey
tried to use, do you? If so, I'll simply refer you to my conversation
with Sgt. Andy Markel, tactical training officer for the LAPD Academy.
I'm sure the post is archived.
Todd
Tryan6
>If a man is de-escalating a situation, the officers should give him
>that opportunity. Kellerman did not fire at the proper time. He
>walked in on a man POINTING a gun at his partner yet stood there
>giving him orders. That is when he should have fired. Surely you
>don't intend to use the so-called death reflex argument that Petey
>tried to use, do you? If so, I'll simply refer you to my conversation
>with Sgt. Andy Markel, tactical training officer for the LAPD Academy.
>I'm sure the post is archived.
>
>Todd
He may have been de-escalating, he may not have been. You have a split second
to make that decision. He brought the gun down, however it was not pointed at
the floor, it was still vaguely pointed in Lewis' direction. It was definitely
still a threat at that time. Kellermen's mindset was obviously not of fear, but
of revenge. But that does not negate the fact that thefacts to support a clean
shooting were there outside of his mindset. Now, as for shooting him as soon as
he came in the door? I agreed with you the last time and I still do. You never
know until you are in that situation what you would actually do, but I'd sure
as hell like the think that Luther would have been one dead mutha-fucka if I
walked in there and saw him pointing a gun at my partner. The death reflex is a
real thing, but the chances of it actually happening at that place and time are
pretty slim and certainly don't pose enough risk in my mind to not take the
shot.
Of course, If I'd have shot the last time I came up on someone pointing a gun
at another person, there'd be a dead SFPD undercover cop...of course, the
Mahoney shoot was different because Kellerman knows for a fact that he is a
"bad-guy" and capable of murder.
Jamie
Mabel Jackson
Shelshka
<c...@luckymojo.com> wrote:
>Tryan6 wrote:
>>
>> Kellerman was railroaded out based on his behavior afterward
>
>Absolutely. It was an injustice -- but worse, outside of the fictional
>premise, it was BAD PLOTTING AND BAD SCRIPTING.
Thank you.
I am not alone.
--
Shelshka
RCB
>cat (reading this newsgroup is like watching a train wreck) yronwode
?
Tryan6
>fucking me
Is that where Todd is?
Jamie
EV-1
my mind, is that it was Lewis and Gee who made the whole thing happen. And
it was Kellerman who was left with the aftermath. To shoot, or not to shoot.
And, how come in movies ,the shooter either misses at close range, or Kills
with one shot? If Kellerman had only not killed Mahoney......
Oh, Well
"Tryan6" <try...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010218073658...@ng-df1.aol.com...
Shannon Goodman
astupid T.V.
Shannon Goodman
catherine yronwode
>
> Patrick returned to write:
> >[...] the whole thing was Meldrick's fault more than
> >Mike's in so many ways. In addition to what you've said above, IMO
> >the screw-ups in the immediate aftermath of the shooting were mostly
> >Meldrick's fault. As the senior guy on site, Meldrick should have
> >gotten Mike under control and told him to write up the objective
> >circumstances exactly as they happened. If Mike had done that (and
> >had said all the obvious things about *why* he had shot Luther), we
> >the viewing public would have been spared the whole sorry post-shoot
> >saga. No ruination of the Mike/Meldrick partnership. No Georgia Rae
> >Mahoney. No covert war on the Mahoney crew. No prying Falsone. No
> >gut-spilling Stivers. No confrontation in the box. No forced
> >Kellerman resignation. No Pembleton resignation. Hell, we'd
> >probably all be enjoying the season 9 February sweeps episodes right
> >now. And it's all basically Meldrick's fault. 8^)
Beautifully put. My theory exactly.
> The facts were there to make it a clean shoot, but Mikey's
> own actions showed that he had his own reasons to shoot and believed
> that he was in the wrong.
Yes, Mikey's guilt tripped him uop -- but i still do not see why --
after all, it was Meldrick, not Mikey, who had blown the scene into what
it became. Mikey was basically trying to protect Meldrick's reputation
and life.
> Meldrick had additional responsibilities on scene as the
> senior officer present, but he also had a lot to loose because his own
> actions were so glaringly over the top. he tells the truth about what
> happend and he's gone too. His actions are the catalyst for everything
> that occurred. He got his gun took. Luther would not have been
> standing there with a gun if Lewis had done the correct thing and
> arrested him.
Right. Which is why his ingratitude toward Mikey covering up for him
made him so horrible a character in later episodes.
You know, i hae long thought of what followed as the downfall of Mikey,
and an injust doawnfall at that -- but Meldrick lost a lot too in the
aftermath -- after all, he had to partner with the BQ.
cat yronwode
Tryan6
>It's 4:20 pm in SANDIEGO why would you guys be talking about
>astupid T.V.
Is it the weekend already?
Jamie
Tryan6
>You know, i hae long thought of what followed as the downfall of Mikey,
>and an injust doawnfall at that -- but Meldrick lost a lot too in the
>aftermath -- after all, he had to partner with the BQ.
Maybe that was Meldrick's purgatory for his actions...
Jamie
Mardelle
>It's 4:20 pm in SANDIEGO why would you guys be talking about
>astupid T.V.
This is truly frightening. Do these people have voting rights?
Mardelle
Greg Halpin
I guess alt.tv.homicide popped up in the WebTV SpamOMatic machine again.
Daddy must've got a new toy and left the kids unattended near it.
<sigh>
Greg
Tryan6
>This is truly frightening. Do these people have voting rights?
>
Of course they do. How else can you explain President Dubya?
Jamie
Mardelle
Excellent point.
Can we kill them?
Mardelle
Tryan6
>Can we kill them?
Yes, yes we can. No court in the land will convict us. It's clearly justifiable
homicide.
Jamie
Patrick
>Meldrick had additional responsibilities on scene as the
>senior officer present, but he also had a lot to loose because his own actions
>were so glaringly over the top. he tells the truth about what happend and he's
>gone too.
So instead of taking the hit for his own use of excessive force,
Meldrick leaves Mike open to a murder charge. Nice partner, huh?
Likestoworkalonely, Patrick
Jasco
2 cents. "Homicide" was one of my favorites, and was sorry to see it go.
"NYPD Blue" was my other favorite, but that's beginning to get boring,
thanks to cynical Sippowitz and the two 'lovebirds'
Todd
(Shannon Goodman) thus spake:
>It's 4:20 pm in SANDIEGO why would you guys be talking about
>astupid T.V.
Hey, do we come into alt.fuckwit and bother you?
Todd
Todd
I believe we're in agreement here. Thank you, Shannon. You've
achieved peace in our time.
Todd
Greg Halpin
>
> Hey, do we come into alt.fuckwit and bother you?
Thanks ... now I have to clean iced tea off of my monitor.
Perhaps you should post a "spit-take" warning on posts like that!
Greg
Tryan6
>So instead of taking the hit for his own use of excessive force,
>Meldrick leaves Mike open to a murder charge. Nice partner, huh?
Seems to look that way doesn't it.
Jamie
Tryan6
>I believe we're in agreement here. Thank you, Shannon. You've
>achieved peace in our time.
Do they have a Halfwit Peace Prize or does it have to be the Nobel nomination
for Shannon? I mean, I don't think the Nbel is quite right here since she
lacked the proper intent...
Jamie
Todd
Nobel did invent dynamite. I bet she blows up real good.
Todd
Tryan6
>Nobel did invent dynamite. I bet she blows up real good.
>
Very good idea. Now we just need to get our hands on some of Mr. Nobel's grand
invention...
Jamie
Plaid Squirrel
>
>>You but don't tell Todd I said so. ;-)
>
>Whoo-hoo!
>
>>I talk to you off group more than any other member.
>
>Not that I've heard much from you recently, however...
>
>Jamie
Here I am. The weekend has arrived at last. Talk to you soon.
Cheese :-D
Plaid Squirrel
>my mind, is that it was Lewis and Gee who made the whole thing happen. And
>it was Kellerman who was left with the aftermath. To shoot, or not to shoot.
>And, how come in movies ,the shooter either misses at close range, or Kills
>with one shot? If Kellerman had only not killed Mahoney......
>Oh, Well
Gee?
Cheese :-D
morpheus
No need, Tryang! This country can already boast 2 presidents who have
won the noble peace pipe i mean prize. Teddy Roosy and Woodrow (new
deal) Wilson! Surely the prize committee isn't influenced by
America!.....no way!!!....(Nobel himself wasn't even that fine a human
in my humble opinion) ((my opinion remains humble, i'm only a god):)
So far, i think dubya has set a nondescript course and tells us exactly
what we want to hear (he'll be writing for west wing next season)....
we need a tax cut, we need most of his proposed budget actually.... What
we do NOT need, is faith based programs. We do not need anything titled
faithbased. Us long and forgotten greek gods do not wanna see the best
country on the planet fall prey to anything based on faith. Us long and
forgotten greek gods have seen many a civilization fall because of such,
and we don't wanna see it again.
morph- has faith that people haven't learned the half of it yet
morpheus
Shannon Goodman wrote:
>
> NIChole kidmann has jungle fever that is why she left tom
Timeout, i thought that Tom left Nicole? Oh, sorey, actually I didn't
give a feces...
I thought raising lotsa kids in a villagesque scenario was more
important than concentrating on raising the kids of broken hollywood
relationships...my mystake
morpheus- thinks humans worship pseudo-heroes for lack of real ones
morpheus
Lissen up, I have many rooms, cheap rates....any takers?
back on topic: I really wanna sleep with...ummm, julianna. just her, not
her cox.
morph- wouldn't throw frank, kay, beau, steve, G, mel, etc..out of bed.
may even munch them if the desire were to take me....:)
morpheus
Patrick wrote:
>
> So instead of taking the hit for his own use of excessive force,
> Meldrick leaves Mike open to a murder charge. Nice partner, huh?
>
> Likestoworkalonely, Patrick
Mel knew a self destructive cowboy when he seen him...Mikey fit the
bill. mel tried to shield Mikey, but it didn't work out. Mel himself was
a bit of cowboy, so it shouldn't be a surprise to the audience that
things spiralled as they did...
In the minds of Timothy Bayliss and michael kellerman, they acted as
heroes, actions that were right, and actions what should be done,
actions that were needed.
Personally, in Tim's place, or in Mikeys....I'd glady give my life up to
take that scum out of society....if I die and take out Luther? or
Ryland? I'll take it.
I'm not saying it's right, but, I will say that I (personally) wouldn't
have even asked about luther's rights....If i was mel or stivers, I
would have shut up and be content knowing that a disease was just
irradicated from society. If I was Tim, I wouldn't have asked Frank for
absolution of something that I already know (and tim knew this) was
beyond frank's scope. Frank never did, and never will, absolve murder.
End of story. He may get pissed off more at one case or another, but
he's willing to send a Noble Doctor to jail cuz she was responsible for
the death of a umm, person. Frank don't see murder like Beau tried to
teach him....Tim sees the degrees of killing like Beau did...
Beau wanted policework to be simple. If 2 drug dealing perps kill or
maim each other, fuck them. They deserve it. If, during regular street
crime an innocent kid gets besmirched or harmed,... then the Felton
Cavalry comes riding in. All Barrels Blazing. His view is is, everybody
fudges the law in order to get by, but don't take advantage of the
innocent....he cut corners, but is first to jump into action. I dunno if
we ever would have found out who killed Adena if Beau had taken the case
instead of Tim, but I do know this...
The Araber is dead. Beau would have killed him. Dead. even if he was
innocent....
I may remind y'all that I think Beau probly killed Pratt,(largely cuz,
umm, he did) and he also would have praised Timmy for executing
Ryland!!! He would have asked for the honour of getting rid of the
gun!!! :)
morph- sees Mikey's perscective, see's franks, tim's, G's, meldrick's,
and kay's. nobody is absolutely right or wrong, they just guess
according to the times....
morpheus
Tryan6 wrote: something that led me to pop off thusly:
If a cop asks you to drop a weapon, while you are holding a weapon, and
you do not do so, he should ask again.
If he has to ask a 3rd time, then you are lucky to be alive...
morph- drops drapes when the fuzz asks, cuz gettin shot isn't fun. The
shoot was clean
morpheus
Shelshka wrote:
>
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:30:52 GMT, catherine yronwode
> <c...@luckymojo.com> wrote:
>
> >Tryan6 wrote:
> >>
> >> Kellerman was railroaded out based on his behavior afterward
> >
> >Absolutely. It was an injustice -- but worse, outside of the fictional
> >premise, it was BAD PLOTTING AND BAD SCRIPTING.
>
> Thank you.
>
> I am not alone.
>
The one thing you ain't, is alone! I've seen some sleep induced
fantasies of yours, yaknow, and I'm wondering one thing.....
how do ya keep ALL the leather supple all the time?.... AND Oh, do ya
use earplugs? or do ya enjoy hearing the pathetic screams......
morph- Borgy borden took an axe, killed all she knew with 40 whacks,
when she saw her lust not done, poisoned each and everyone...
Tryan6
>If a cop asks you to drop a weapon, while you are holding a weapon, and
>you do not do so, he should ask again.
>
>If he has to ask a 3rd time, then you are lucky to be alive...
If you weren't a godlet, I'd be amazed at how you are always 100% right on the
money with things...
Jamie
Julius Worrell
morpheus wrote:
> we need a tax cut, we need most of his proposed budget actually.... What
> we do NOT need, is faith based programs. We do not need anything titled
> faithbased. Us long and forgotten greek gods do not wanna see the best
> country on the planet fall prey to anything based on faith. Us long and
> forgotten greek gods have seen many a civilization fall because of such,
> and we don't wanna see it again.
>
>
> morph- has faith that people haven't learned the half of it yet
I'm kind of in the middle on the faith based thing. On the one hand, I don't
want the federal government to start decided what is and is not an
acceptible religion. I've tried to think how it could be done without
playing favorites with various faiths, and I keep coming up empty. Best I've
come up with is that you go entirely based on an existing program that
works, regardless of the religion, and monitor the use of the funds. But
even that doesn't satisfy me. And proselytizing to people is such a
different creature when government funds enter the picture.
On the other hand, religious organizations, working at their best, are so
much better at this kind of stuff than the government. Feed the Children,
for example, works at something like 85% efficiency. That is, 85% of all
donated money goes toward getting food to poor families. And as far as I
know, they don't even use that money to pay for food. That's all donated
from the source. They use the donated money to buy the trucks, gas, drivers
to get the food to the delivery stations. With the government, they'd pay
full price for all the food and end up paying triple for anything they did
to get the food to the poor families, making sure that abundant pork is
divvied up along the way so an expensive delivery station would be built in
some Senator's home state. The money is so much better spent by
organizations that are more concerned with actually accomplishing what they
set out to do. Hell, even Pat Robertson's Operation Blessing is a pretty
good organization. Runs somewhere around 83% and does all kinds of hands on
service to the poor...provides food and clothes and blankets to the
homeless. And they fly a converted airliner into poor countries with
volunteer doctors and nurses to perform free operations and heatlh care to
as many people they can. Imagine the government trying to accomplish
something like that. But who'd want to see Robertson with a handful of tax
dollars and an official government seal?
Unhur...@webtv.net
> Personally, in Tim's place, or in Mikeys....I'd
> glady give my life up to take that scum out of
> society....if I die and take out Luther? or
> Ryland? I'll take it.
"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for
his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for
his country." -- George Patton, speaking to the troops.
--
Unhurried1
morpheus
3 things come to mind immediately Julius. I'm way to friggin jaded,
you're idealy naive, or something in the middle.
Pat Robertson only runs one thing at 83%, and that's his wallet. He is a
christian shyster. I say that, realizing that you have faith in your
religion, but not knowing if you believe in only it's doctrine? or do
you trust who is running the religion?. The two faiths are distinctly
different, as you probly know. :) (see Jim and Tammy, Oral amway
Roberts, billy graham, who all believed material wealth is a sin to
everybody else but them....need i go on?)
There's an interpretation of the original bible out there that thinks
that Jesus (pause for effect) did not believe in religion. wouldn't
that be a hoot?
Wanna know what I think? I think:
predominantly white in race and religiously offshoots of the King James
bible came to what we now call america, and did what every other group
had done before them. They killed everybody until they took over. Their
decendants were from spain, portugal, france, egypt, mesopatamia, asia,
mars jupiter whatever... and britain. They killed until they had
control. It's what every society known to earth ever did.
White Anglo Saxon Protestants controlled the tobacco trade and the
creation of munitions needed to kill everybody, and became the sect of
religious superiority. ety? aty? whatever, they ruled.
They gave the Mormons a tough time. They, for all their bluster, did NOT
accept every religion. They didn't like puritans, baptists, catholics
etc....
I was born Wasp. Wasps believe in breeding, traditional bloodlines, and
elitism. Trust me, I know this. They actually have a good
argument...Blueblood always protects blueblood. Keeps the race
protected. No different than the Italians, Irish, Jewish, Muslim, Croats
or Serbs...everybody wants to be part of a community that feels better
about itself in comparison to another community.
Just like any prejudice, religion seperates people. I'd thought we were
more advanced than to believe in the myths that were told to us as
folklore before information was readily available. I gather, I'll just
have to wait a little longer...
But I ain't paying my tax dollars to help religion garner a stronger
hold on the citizenry. No fuckin way. I don't care which religion it is.
Religious leaders have a way of raping their constituents in a manner
that I find distasteful at best...and tastes just like our government at
worst.
I ain't paying them both to screw me, being forced to pay one is enough.
morpheus- doesn't need anybody's permission to eat cake
morpheus
ahem, well yeah, i guess personal pleasure would not be gotten by giving
up my life....but...oh hell! Lissen rushless, if i want you to ruin one
of my perspectives, i'll ask. ok? sheesh...
morph- needs to clone itself
morpheus
Always? C'mon now, shirley not always! I probly posted some avante-garde
garbage this very morning in which i made a mistake or 17....:)
morph- calls it as seen thru draped eyelids
Tryan6
>Always? C'mon now, shirley not always! I probly posted some avante-garde
>garbage this very morning in which i made a mistake or 17....:)
>
Always. And don't call me shirley...
Jamie
John
> 3 things come to mind immediately Julius. I'm way to friggin jaded,
> you're idealy naive, or something in the middle.
>
> Pat Robertson only runs one thing at 83%, and that's his wallet. He
> is a christian shyster. I say that, realizing that you have faith in
> your religion, but not knowing if you believe in only it's doctrine?
> or do you trust who is running the religion?. The two faiths are
> distinctly different, as you probly know. :) (see Jim and Tammy, Oral
> amway Roberts, billy graham, who all believed material wealth is a
> sin to everybody else but them....need i go on?)
Billy Graham said this? I didn't think he was ever about money.
-John-
(who's not sure Graham belongs in the same category as Bakker, Roberts,
Falwell, Robertson, Copeland, et al.)
morpheus
John wrote:
>
> Billy Graham said this? I didn't think he was ever about money.
>
> -John-
> (who's not sure Graham belongs in the same category as Bakker, Roberts,
> Falwell, Robertson, Copeland, et al.)
I watched Billy Graham alot when I was a kid. I got interested in him
cuz there was a wrestler named Superstar Billy Graham back when
wrestling was hardly on television.
Billy Graham, the preacher, was smoother than silk. Defined charisma.
You couldn't watch him, and not like him, if ya tried. If he had run for
president right after Eisenhower, he would have had a real shot, and
much better a chance than Pat Robertson will ever have.
But make no mistake, he was a sham preacher. He had a number to call in
and pledge money to, I saw it with my own eyes....while of course, he
was preaching the ills of materialism. He drove a Rolls ya know...Silver
ghost i think....
morph- a godlet who doesn't ask for pledges, just commentary.
morpheus
Ok, if you say I'm always right, i guess i am. I don't argue with law
enforcement twice and expect to live....
Now lissen here mortals!..!..!..! (this punctuation is correct, cuz i
said so! HA!)
morph- now rules (paren(the(sis)))? oh man, is her majesty gonna be
pissed at this revoltin development!!! AHHHHHH......bein always right is
indescribably delicious :)
La Reina
>morph- now rules (paren(the(sis)))? oh man, is her majesty gonna be
>pissed at this revoltin development!!!
Revolting it right. You underestimate me, my little godlet. Ever heard of a
thing called the Divine Right of Queens? (Royalty, not the borough.) I'm divine
*and* royal while you're just a godlet whose "revolt" is merely the slightest
of royal pains. It is kind of cute how you keep trying, though.
AHHHHHH......bein always right is
>indescribably delicious :)
How would you know?
If I seem a little snarky today, it's because morph's "revolt" included giving
me disturbing dreams last night. (It was kind of underhanded sending me icky
dreams involving my dearly departed little Bear cub!)
Reina De Paréntesis
Kayleigh19
>Reina De Paréntesis
Uh, Morphie....? You might want to check your nose and see if you're bleeding,
'cause you just got tagged.
Kayleigh
do godlets bleed? Red?
Leslie LeBlanc
morpheus wrote :
>Beau wanted policework to be simple. If 2 drug dealing perps kill or
>maim each other, fuck them. They deserve it. If, during regular street
>crime an innocent kid gets besmirched or harmed,... then the Felton
>Cavalry comes riding in. All Barrels Blazing. His view is is, everybody
>fudges the law in order to get by, but don't take advantage of the
>innocent....he cut corners, but is first to jump into action. I dunno if
>we ever would have found out who killed Adena if Beau had taken the case
>instead of Tim, but I do know this...
This makes me wish I had bought the headless Beau cadaver at the sale for
you. Dang, what a birthday gift that would have made.
And no, I don't think Cyclop's real name was Scott Summers. The guy with the
wings, maybe.
L
La Reina
<< Karing said to Morph:
>Reina De Paréntesis
You know he loves it when we play rough.
Reina De Paréntesis
youcangivemeanameifyouwant
>we need a tax cut, we need most of his >proposed budget actually....
No, no, no. No tax cut. He should be spending that money on health care and
saving social security. A millllion other things too. But I think a smaller tax
cut could be okay. :-)
http://www.thateden.demon.co.uk/dirk/index.htm
http://www.thateden.demon.co.uk/dirk/dirk.htm
1. Concentrate soulfully on the question which is beseiging you.
2. Write It Down.
3. Ponder It.
4. Enjoy the Silence.
5. Achieve Inner Harmony and Tranquility.
6. Push the Red Button.
morpheus
Angel? He couldn't carry my, uhh, .... No fair! You tricked me!
morph- doesn't need another cadaver at this time, storage is at a
premium yaknow...
morpheus
truth be, your royal highness, I didn't send that dream. Sometimes those
you love send out etherworldly stuff as a reminder of how life goes on-
while the remembrance of lives lost, serves as guide.... I can filter
that stuff, but I often don't. sometimes their message is better than
anything than I can ever hope to say...
morph- K-lee, my nose was tagged? Damn, uhh, i didn't even feel it.
Quick, what colour do ya think the blood should be? when i bleed i
mean... I'm workin on purple, orange and green right now but I ain't
happy with any of them yet. Any suggestions, Lass?
La Reina
>
>truth be, your royal highness, I didn't send that dream. Sometimes those
>you love send out etherworldly stuff as a reminder of how life goes on-
>while the remembrance of lives lost, serves as guide.... I can filter
>that stuff, but I often don't. sometimes their message is better than
>anything than I can ever hope to say...
Um, yeah, right. This wasn't so much a dream as a nightmare (gory details not
fit for even an ath audience) with no underlying message (and as a writer, I
tend to comprehend underlying messages). The only hope you have of passing the
buck on this one is if you have an evil twin nightmare godlet flying around
wreaking havoc.
>
>morph- K-lee, my nose was tagged? Damn, uhh, i didn't even feel it.
>Quick, what colour do ya think the blood should be? when i bleed i
>mean... I'm workin on purple, orange and green right now but I ain't
>happy with any of them yet. Any suggestions, Lass?
I know you asked K-Lee, but figured maybe I should add here that Princesses
Jenn and luna, the other royals in our midst, and I have dibs on the royal
purple blood. What about chartreuse?
Reina De Paréntesis
morpheus
youcangivemeanameifyouwant wrote:
>
> morph said-
> >we need a tax cut, we need most of his >proposed budget actually....
>
> No, no, no. No tax cut. He should be spending that money on health care and
> saving social security. A millllion other things too. But I think a smaller tax
> cut could be okay. :-)
>
Tax cut, and half a million things!
morph- soc sec is a joke, scud it.
morpheus
La Reina wrote:
>
> morph claimed:
>
> >
> >truth be, your royal highness, I didn't send that dream. Sometimes those
> >you love send out etherworldly stuff as a reminder of how life goes on-
> >while the remembrance of lives lost, serves as guide.... I can filter
> >that stuff, but I often don't. sometimes their message is better than
> >anything than I can ever hope to say...
now her highness is comin back with:
> Um, yeah, right. This wasn't so much a dream as a nightmare (gory details not
> fit for even an ath audience) with no underlying message (and as a writer, I
> tend to comprehend underlying messages). The only hope you have of passing the
> buck on this one is if you have an evil twin nightmare godlet flying around
> wreaking havoc.
nitemares only exist in bad perspectives, your esteemed one. perhaps
another slant is in order, possibly symbolic in nature? (there ain't no
evil twin, so this better work or I'm toast)
> >
> >morph- K-lee, my nose was tagged? Damn, uhh, i didn't even feel it.
> >Quick, what colour do ya think the blood should be? when i bleed i
> >mean... I'm workin on purple, orange and green right now but I ain't
> >happy with any of them yet. Any suggestions, Lass?
>
> I know you asked K-Lee, but figured maybe I should add here that Princesses
> Jenn and luna, the other royals in our midst, and I have dibs on the royal
> purple blood. What about chartreuse?
hmmm, no. any green has got to be kelly. Uhh, got anything in a blue?
morph- can ya adjust the hue, the green seems a bit off....
John
> Cheese Girl wrote:
> > No, no, no. No tax cut. He should be spending that money on health
> > care and saving social security. A millllion other things too. But
> > I think a smaller tax cut could be okay. :-)
>
> Tax cut, and half a million things!
>
> morph- soc sec is a joke, scud it
That's not bad, morph, in light of your invoking the name "Arthur Kent"
in another post. Not bad!
("in light of"/"SCUD" -- an unintentional pun)
-John-
(who got the Todd Worrell ref also)
morpheus
John wrote:
> > morph- soc sec is a joke, scud it
>
> That's not bad, morph, in light of your invoking the name "Arthur Kent"
> in another post. Not bad!
>
> ("in light of"/"SCUD" -- an unintentional pun)
>
If SCUD was a pun, it truly was punned as you say. not purposely. I've
cottoned to usin the word scud as to mean- ruin, thro a monkey wrench
in, make go awry. I thought everyone used it that way :). But, umm, i
hate punnin stuff and not know how i did it, so if ya could enlighten
meself...is SCUD a comic ref?
morph- eyes squinted open, and ready to learn
EV-1
"morpheus" <one...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3A9CEB8A...@nyc.rr.com...
morpheus
EV-1 wrote:
>
> If I'm not mistaken Wasn't Beau in the Hospital when Pratt was killed????
Last we saw, Beau is sleepin on Kay's lap, before Gordo got offed. Next,
we see he's limping into the squadroom. Where was he in between? he was
released, and his whereabouts were never accounted for.
morph- beau has a shaky and never questioned alibi.