OT-ER swordfight
Highlandmg
Roberta Brown choreographed the sword fight in thursday night episode of E R.
Thursday night.
Mary
GinjerB
(Highlandmg) writes:
>Subject: OT-ER swordfight
>From: highl...@aol.com (Highlandmg)
>Date: 06 Mar 2002 02:34:18 GMT
Kewl! Thanks, Mary.
Wonder who was the best "study" --NW or GV...
GinjerB
Ojagwers
entertaining ... think Goran Visnjic would've made a great Immie, too (seems
like the Darius type to me) ... Hope you are all doing good!
O
Edie
I just managed to catch this after they'd
started fencing and all I could do was cringe.
Were they nuts??!!! No masks, no padding, no
nothing. It's a good thing they didn't kill
each other.
(Nice choreography though!)
Edie
(has taken a foil in the stomach *with* the
appropriate padding and it feels none
too good)
First Fallen
>started fencing and all I could do was cringe.
>Were they nuts??!!! No masks, no padding, no
>nothing. It's a good thing they didn't kill
>each other.
I do that twice a week....with broadswords...for several hours at a stretch
<g>
GHorvath
How could you tell? It was all filmed in so close and edited so frenetically,
I couldn't follow the choreography at all.
GH
Hated the episide from start to finsh, anyway.
Edie
I don't know- maybe it's different with braodswords.
But you poke someone in the stomach (or anywhere else)
with a foil in a serious fencing match and they aren't
wearing protection, you're just asking for a
serious injury to occur.
Who was it- Carter? was right when
he said that guy could have poked his eye out.
Heck, it almost happened to AP in a choreographed
fight. Two guys testing their manhood out on each
other (which is what that rather idiotic scene
looked like to me) with foils and no protection
were just asking for trouble.
I've never heard of a fencer being foolish
enough to fence without equipment, (I'm not talking
about TV/movie work where everything is
choreographed) but my experience is admittedly
not extensive. SCAers don't use foils do they?
And even they wear padding, I thought.
I have heard of fencers being killed even when
they *did* wear protection, however. (Usually
when a blade snaps.)
Edie
(won't worry about you because I figure you've got
enough common sense not to fight in such a way
that would endanger your life or anyone else's)
Edie
GHorvath wrote:
>
> >(Nice choreography though!)
>
> How could you tell? It was all filmed in so close and edited so frenetically,
> I couldn't follow the choreography at all.
It seemed to me that the swordwork suited the
scene and the characters and I glimpsed what
looked like some pretty good moves. I agree
about the closeness of the filming and the
editing though.
>
> GH
> Hated the episide from start to finsh, anyway.
Oh man, I hear you! Luckily, I didn't see it start to
finish. I came in at the sword fight and switched
channels in disgust about ten minutes after the
fight was over.
Blecch.
Edie
Edie
Sorry to reply to my own post- I just wanted to
correct what I said below as it sounds as if
I'm saying that AP was using a foil in Modern
Prometheus, when he wasn't.
Edie
GinjerB
>Subject: Re: OT-ER swordfight
>From: Edie <ed...@comcast.net>
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:56:02 GMT
Why? (just curious)
GinjerB
First Fallen
>But you poke someone in the stomach (or anywhere else)
>with a foil in a serious fencing match and they aren't
>wearing protection, you're just asking for a
>serious injury to occur.
This is true, when I first started studying fencing, lo those many years
ago, I had to wear an extra pad under my tunic, and I never fought without a
mask. What I do now, with broadsword and even rapier is fairly controlled,
and injury is rare. Then again, we're not actually trying to hit each
other...for the most part.
>SCAers don't use foils do they?
>And even they wear padding, I thought.
I have no idea, I've never had any contact with the SCA, though I've heard
stories about them taping telephone books to their bodies. When we fight
and are making contact to the body with swords, we wear full plate armour.
>I have heard of fencers being killed even when
>they *did* wear protection, however. (Usually
>when a blade snaps.)
I believe that happened during Olympic competition once. A blade had
snapped during a lunge, and the attacker's momentum carried him forward, and
drove the broken blade into his opponent, killing him.
>Edie
>(won't worry about you because I figure you've got
>enough common sense not to fight in such a way
>that would endanger your life or anyone else's)
You would think that, wouldn't you? <g>
GHorvath
>
>GinjerB
Donna put it best: ER does The Breakfast Club.
It was a bottle show, probably filmed in 3 days simultaneous with another
episode, in which 5 cast members are stuck in a classroom waiting for a teacher
for something like 4 hours, and all their issues come out, up to and including
Loss of Virginity stories.
Sno-ore.
They knew, and admitted, they were doing "Waiting for Godot." Didn't mention
"No Exit," though.
GH
Edie
I don't watch the show regularly anymore,
so I didn't have any background for
anything that was going on, but what
little I saw looked to me like a bad
combination of chick flick stuff and
testosterone induced male one-upmanship.
Kid stuff in characters that are supposed
to be adults.
Edie
(When dialogue centers around
group sharing of everyone's first sexual
encounters, I change the channel.)
> GinjerB
Edie
I don't watch the show regularly anymore,
HiRene23
Wasn't my favorite ep by a long shot.. too much Breakfast Club. I'm also still
trying to figure out why Susan is so irritating to me since she came back. I'm
glad her and Carter broke up though, they had all the chemistry of a Duncan and
Dr. Anne <eg>.
Rene <appreciated the primo eye-candy though>
Joe Heimann
>>Hated the episide from start to finsh, anyway.
> Wasn't my favorite ep by a long shot.. too much Breakfast Club. I'm also still
> trying to figure out why Susan is so irritating to me since she came back. I'm
> glad her and Carter broke up though, they had all the chemistry of a Duncan and
> Dr. Anne <eg>.
I found her character irritating the first time around, so was not a bit
surprised to still find Susan irritating. Oh well, the show is starting
to get too far out there. It only stays on my recording list since no
other show at that time has gotten me interested. Since I work evenings,
everything I watch has to be time-shifted, so only can record one show.
Don't even bother recording and rewatching when they get around to the ER
repeats now, used to some years ago though.
Joe
Edgar Governo
>>(Nice choreography though!)
>
>How could you tell? It was all filmed in so close and edited so frenetically,
>I couldn't follow the choreography at all.
>
>GH
>Hated the episide from start to finsh, anyway.
Wow...mileage really *does* vary.
I rather liked the episode--but you have to understand, I'm not a fan
of ER to begin with. (I was only watching because I was at the home of
an ER fan at the time, and I'd already heard about the swordfight...)
I realised right away that they were doing The Breakfast Club, but I
was okay with that because I like The Breakfast Club just fine, which
helped make up for the things I don't like about ER. :}
Something about medical dramas on TV just isn't appealing to me...I've
always said that ER stood a chance of being a decent show if they
could just get rid of those pesky hospital scenes. ;)
Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.escape.ca/~arphaxad/history.html
You can also visit my homepage:
http://www.escape.ca/~arphaxad
Personal email is encouraged, as always.
Edie
Edgar Governo wrote:
>
> ghor...@aol.com (GHorvath) wrote:
>
> >>(Nice choreography though!)
> >
> >How could you tell? It was all filmed in so close and edited so frenetically,
> >I couldn't follow the choreography at all.
> >
> >GH
> >Hated the episide from start to finsh, anyway.
>
> Wow...mileage really *does* vary.
>
> I rather liked the episode--but you have to understand, I'm not a fan
> of ER to begin with. (I was only watching because I was at the home of
> an ER fan at the time, and I'd already heard about the swordfight...)
> I realised right away that they were doing The Breakfast Club, but I
> was okay with that because I like The Breakfast Club just fine, which
> helped make up for the things I don't like about ER. :}
>
> Something about medical dramas on TV just isn't appealing to me...I've
> always said that ER stood a chance of being a decent show if they
> could just get rid of those pesky hospital scenes. ;)
<g> Yes- mileage varies a lot. :-) I still think that
the best ER ep (mind you I haven't seen many recently)
was in the first season- and it was all hospital.
It was the show where Greene was trying to deliver the
baby and things started to go wrong, and more wrong,
and more wrong. It was an incredibly riveting episode
and it was one of those epsiodes of television that
captures a particular situation so honestly and with
such realism in the characters' actions and emotions
that it's breathtaking.
What set ER apart, IMO, was that it seemed not to be
just another hospital show. For me, it is when they
leave the hospital situations that the show loses
its edge and becomes just another TV sitdram.
Edie
>
> Edgar Governo
GinjerB
(GHorvath) writes:
>Subject: Re: OT-ER swordfight
>From: ghor...@aol.com (GHorvath)
>Date: 11 Mar 2002 18:51:58 GMT
Or The Breakfast Club for that matter...<g>
I didn't hate it, but I did think it was a kinda cop-out way to advance a lot
of the characters "romantic" story-lines in one swell foop, and to give the
audience expository lump background on the kid who is going to be the new token
black doctor.
GinjerB
GinjerB
>Subject: Re: OT-ER swordfight
>From: Edie <ed...@comcast.net>
>Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:54:09 GMT
It's been a soap opera, to one extent or another, from the beginning. The
difference was that the earlier seasons there was more medical material and
less personal drama.
These days the proportions are reversed.
MHO.
GinjerB
Edie
GinjerB wrote:
re ER:
>
> It's been a soap opera, to one extent or another, from the beginning. The
> difference was that the earlier seasons there was more medical material and
> less personal drama.
>
> These days the proportions are reversed.
>
> MHO.
Makes sense to me. I'm sensing a pattern here with
shows. First ER, now Buffy... <g>
Edie
did I mention I don't like soap operas? <g>
>
> GinjerB
Dianne
"GinjerB" wrote
> I didn't hate it, but I did think it was a kinda cop-out way to advance a
lot
> of the characters "romantic" story-lines in one swell foop,
Hi Ginjer,
I have to ask....was that an intentional description...swell foop...I love
it!!!
--
Dianne*frequently guilty of unintentional spoonerisms*
~~~~
One of The Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter
vegetaprime
"First Fallen" <no...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:a6it7o$duf$1...@news3.cadvision.com...
> >I don't know- maybe it's different with braodswords.
> >But you poke someone in the stomach (or anywhere else)
> >with a foil in a serious fencing match and they aren't
> >wearing protection, you're just asking for a
> >serious injury to occur.
>
>
> This is true, when I first started studying fencing, lo those many years
> ago, I had to wear an extra pad under my tunic, and I never fought without
a
> mask. What I do now, with broadsword and even rapier is fairly
controlled,
> and injury is rare. Then again, we're not actually trying to hit each
> other...for the most part.
>
> >SCAers don't use foils do they?
> >And even they wear padding, I thought.
>
>
> I have no idea, I've never had any contact with the SCA, though I've heard
> stories about them taping telephone books to their bodies. When we fight
> and are making contact to the body with swords, we wear full plate armour.
>
> >I have heard of fencers being killed even when
> >they *did* wear protection, however. (Usually
> >when a blade snaps.)
>
>
> I believe that happened during Olympic competition once. A blade had
> snapped during a lunge, and the attacker's momentum carried him forward,
and
> drove the broken blade into his opponent, killing him.
>
That must have been where they got the scene in Ring of Steel. Thats scary
to think about..
--
-vegetaprime
King of the Boogs
Owner of Guilmon's Bread
"Its not until you've lost everything that your free to do anything"
-Tyler Durden
"How was the scouting mission? Find any new 'positions'?"
-Rattrap
Trilby
>
> Hi O!
>
> I just managed to catch this after they'd
> started fencing and all I could do was cringe.
> Were they nuts??!!! No masks, no padding, no
> nothing. It's a good thing they didn't kill
> each other.
>
> (Nice choreography though!)
Someone on the "ER" newsgroup said it was done by Bob Anderson. No idea
whether they were right, but I believe it. I imagine "ER" can afford
him, and he's the biggest name in Hollywood for blade choreography.
I thought it was ridiculous that they didn't use at least face masks,
but that would have spoiled the whole macho "mine is bigger than yours"
dick-waving thing.
> Edie
> (has taken a foil in the stomach *with* the
> appropriate padding and it feels none
> too good)
OUCH!!
> Ojagwers wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all -- I'm still alive -- whee -- thought the swordfight on "ER" was really
> > entertaining ... think Goran Visnjic would've made a great Immie, too (seems
> > like the Darius type to me) ... Hope you are all doing good!
He would have made a spectacular Duncan, if the show had been "Croatian"
instead of "Highlander". (Doesn't have the same ring to it, though,
does it? *G*) He'd have made a great Horseman, too. :-) I think it
has something to do with the presence he can project when it's called
for.
------------------ Trilby (LOVED Visnjic's "Hamlet" speech snippet)
Highlandmg
Hi
Roberta Brown did the choreography.
Mary
Trilby
> Someone on the "ER" newsgroup said it was done by Bob Anderson. No idea
> whether they were right, but I believe it. I imagine "ER" can afford
> him, and he's the biggest name in Hollywood for blade choreography.
> < ------------------ Trilby (LOVED Visnjic's "Hamlet" speech snippet)
>
> Hi
>
> Roberta Brown did the choreography.
>
> Mary
Well, I'm glad *someone* could read those awful "squished to one side so
we can advertise another show" credits. I did my best.
---------------- Trilby (Or did you find out some other way?)(Was it
mentioned here and I missed it?)
Highlandmg
Er's choreography's was done by
Roberta Brown.
Mary
GHorvath
>whether they were right, but I believe it. I imagine "ER" can afford
>him, and he's the biggest name in Hollywood for blade choreography.
I'm probably not the first to mention this, but it was done by Roberta Brown,
and she would probably appreciate it if someone let the ER newsgroup know.
No TV show, not even a successful one, has a feature budget. I'd be surprised
if ER could afford to fly Bob Anderson in from England for one fight.
In retrospect, I can hardly believe HL:TS got him to do TV. I wonder who made
that happen, and how.
G.
Dianne
"Trilby" wrote ...
> Well, I'm glad *someone* could read those awful "squished to one side so
> we can advertise another show" credits. I did my best.
>
> ---------------- Trilby (Or did you find out some other way?)
It was mentioned over at the Highlander DownUnder e-group as Roberta was a
guest at last years Con. Now we just have to wait for that ep to screen here
--
Dianne
Leslie Fish
"Edie" <ed...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3C8D4CF7...@comcast.net...
> not extensive. SCAers don't use foils do they?
> And even they wear padding, I thought.
>
padding. The regular SCAdian broadsword fighters wear full armor, even
though their weapons are made of rattan.
--
--Leslie <;)))><
Jette Goldie
"Leslie Fish" <lesli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:PiYm8.7008$oi.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Darn straight - rattan has a nasty habit of shattering when
you hit something too hard and too ofthen and those broken
edges are sharp!
--
Jette
(aka Vinyaduriel)
"Work for Peace and remain fiercely loving" - Jim Byrnes
je...@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
GinjerB
(GHorvath) writes:
>Subject: Re: OT-ER swordfight
>From: ghor...@aol.com (GHorvath)
>Date: 18 Mar 2002 04:22:47 GMT
It was Mary I think who mentioned that here before the epi aired. It was one
of the main reasons I tuned in.
GinjerB
Leslie Fish
"Jette Goldie" <jette...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:XV_m8.506$9s7.2...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
>
> Darn straight - rattan has a nasty habit of shattering when
> you hit something too hard and too ofthen and those broken
> edges are sharp!
That's probably why the custom evolved of wrapping the whole thing in
duct-tape -- not to mention that the silvery tape makes it look just a tad
more realistic.
--
--Leslie <;)))><
Highlandmg
I am posting this from another list I am on.
Hi all,
Roberta wrote to say how much she appreciated receiving your responses to
the ER fight scene. Here's her message:
**************************************************************************
********************
It's wonderful knowing that people are watching and being supportive, and I
loved reading everyone's responses to the fight.
In answer to a couple of the questions or speculations, the setup of the
fight was in fact ideally matched to the experience of both actors. Noah had
taken a brief fencing class in high school, which, though he repeatedly
pointed out how distant the memory was, meant that sport fencing was the
physicality which was familiar to him. Goran does, indeed, play Hamlet in an
old castle in Croatia every summer at what is apparently one of Eastern
Europe's most popular Shakespeare traditions. The result was that one of
them more naturally embraced the sport style, while the other was more
comfortable with a theatrical style. This was perfectly supported in the
script and made my job a real joy from the start. I gave Goran all of the
big, swishing, dramatic moves, while Noah got all of the beautiful,
streamlined, and effective competitive moves.
A few of you said that you would have liked to have seen more of the fight,
and, of course, wouldn't we all... Viewed in order with its natural flow,
the fight tells a fun story based on all of the above. I did know from the
beginning, of course, that it would be juxtaposed to the conversation
between the ladies and that the director, for some strange reason, felt that
this dialogue was important...! (for those who know him, Bob Chapin let me
use the screening room at his complex for a large screen viewing party on
the night, and he sat in the front row shouting, "Less talk; more fight!")
As far as how good and how safe they were able to get at this fairly
involved and potentially dangerous fight (sport fencing without masks is
definitely risky), I must first and foremost credit the actors. They both
had held a weapon in some way before but came to me with full humility,
saying that they wanted me to make them look as good as possible, and with
an incredible dedication to work. The production office supported us as
well, with a full two weeks of rehearsal -- more than we had for any episode
of "Queen of Swords!" As those of you who saw "Swords on the Set" know, I
(and seemingly Peter) am much more used to the other end of the rehearsal
spectrum...
Noah and Goran rehearsed every day, frequently on days when they were
shooting another episode and could only (voluntarily, I might add) give me
their lunch hour. At least three times they went without lunch on a long day
of shooting. As Noah put it to me on the first day: We know we're not going
to get *another* sword fight on "E.R." so we really want to make this one
hot...
And as regards the ''sophisticated moves' which Monica complimented --
thanks for noticing! The one which particularly delighted me to be able to
use was what I called my tribute to the Olympics. I utilised a very famous
point from the 1964 Olympics, in an epee bout between Okawa of Japan (who
later moved to America and I was honored to share the space with at Westside
Fencing Center) and Magnon of France. Noah played the Okawa side of this
point and Goran the Magnon, as Noah stepped forward from a lunge into a
deep, nearly splitting, reverse lunge on the ground, thrusting backwards
over his shoulder to hit Goran, in the Frenchman's position, who was almost
simultaneously hitting his back from above. This is the last move of the
fight proper, before they start whacking each other petulantly with the
blades and drawing blood. It delighted me putting the move in for the dozen
or so people who would recognize it, and Noah and Goran were equally excited
when I showed them the photo of the famous point. They were absolutely
thrilled to learn that they would be doing THAT. (Well, OK, maybe Goran was
a little more thrilled... Noah did get just a little caught up in the 'my
legs don't do that' aspect of things....)
In all, I felt very lucky to have these two actors give life to my work.
They are wonderful, talented, hard-working guys who totally got the story I
wanted to tell with this fight and fleshed out every beat and every moment
in ways a choreographer all too rarely gets to enjoy. Maybe if people are
interested I can bring some dailies when next we meet, so you can see the
fight through, without any pesky dialogue from other characters breaking up
the action...
Thanks again, Sonja, for sharing everyone's comments with me. I hope the
episode makes it down
under soon!
All good cheer to you,
Roberta
**************************************************************************
******
GinjerB
GinjerB
In article <20020324194835...@mb-fp.aol.com>, highl...@aol.com
(Highlandmg) writes:
>Subject: Re: OT-ER swordfight
>From: highl...@aol.com (Highlandmg)
>Date: 25 Mar 2002 00:48:35 GMT