Are Duncan and Conner really brothers?
Sara H. McClintic
McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
B5 MUSE
They aren't Related by Blood, they are Clansmen. You can't assume that
people from all over the world share the same <firstname> <middlename>
<lastname> layout. But many names are anglicanized to that format. so
Conner of the Clan MacLeod, becomes Conner MacLeod. Duncan on the other
hand was adopted by the Head of the Clan (pun intended) who's last name
WOULD be MacLeod, so he becomes "Duncan MacLeod of the clan MacLeod"
>
>
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Jesse/Ironheart
CDB
>In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
>son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
>McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
Ummm, I don't believe they were related per se. They are just members
of the same clan. As Conner said "Same brand, different vintage." or
something like that. :-)
Cheers,
--Chris
markth
>In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
>son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
>McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
Their clansman, which doesn't always mean a blood relation.
Many families can make up the clan, but one leads it. As
for Duncan's adoption, I'd say his mother made it clear in
the fourth season opener, "It matters not who bore you, your
Duncan MacCloud of the Clan MacCloud"
Floyd Edward Reed
In regards to whether or not the two are related, I don't know.
I don't remember Duncan's father ever telling him he was
adopted. Not saying it didn't happen, just don't remember it.
However, Duncan and Conner are members of the same CLAN, which
is an extended family. Now, even if Duncan isn't a MacCleod,
he was raised as one. And Conner is at least fifty years older
than Duncan, so there was never any impression that they were
brothers.
Hope this helps.
Floyd
--
I a writer, don't confuse me with words.
Ryan Storm
>
> In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>
> McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>
> Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
>
> son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
>
> McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
Connor and Duncan MacLeod are related. It seems that all immortals are
foundlings, and don't know who there true parents are, and since they
were both taken in by the clan MacLeod they are related, but not by
blood. Oh, Connor and Duncan aren't considered brothers because Duncan
was taken in some 75 years after Connor, so they would be really distant
cousins or something like that, I'm not sure.
>/////////|============================================= Brandon Storm
brothers because Duncan was taken in some 75 years later
Claire Maier
: In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
: McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
: Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
: son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
: McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
They're clansmen, as people have said. That was the answer Duncan gave to
Tessa when she asked if he and Connor were related. But the Highland
clans of that time were like a big extended family, and members of the
same clan considered themselves kin.
Series immortals are all foundlings, so series universe Connor would be a
foundling, too. He and Duncan might be blood relatives, both being
immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
And by the way, it's spelled "MacLeod."
B5 MUSE
> foundling, too. He and Duncan might be blood relatives, both being
> immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
Not *ALL* immortals are foundlings. We've seen at least one pre-Imm with
her parents (god I docan't remembr the title)
We've seen 2 Imms' who didn't know who their parents wer- Duncan and
Richie. There is no other evidence to suggest that Imm's are Foundlings
by nature.
Harbaugh
>
>In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>
>McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>
>Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
>
>son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
>
>McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
If you check you Scotland history. A clansman doenn't need to be a blood
relative. Just a man who has pledged his life and honor to the clan.
Claire Maier
: > Series immortals are all foundlings, so series universe Connor would be a
: > immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
: Not *ALL* immortals are foundlings. We've seen at least one pre-Imm with
: her parents (god I docan't remembr the title)
: We've seen 2 Imms' who didn't know who their parents wer- Duncan and
: Richie. There is no other evidence to suggest that Imm's are Foundlings
: by nature.
Yes, *ALL* series immortals are foundlings. Michelle (the pre-immie seen
with her parents) is adopted. Every immortal we've seen whose origins we
know is a foundling. Furthermore, other immortals, upon meeting a
pre-immortal or immortal whose history they know nothing about, *knows*
that that pre-immie or immie is a foundling. And it was reported on AOL
that in the Euro version of "The Wrath of Kali," Kamir tells Richie that
no immortal knows who their parents are.
So we have plenty of evidence to indicate that immortals are foundlings.
See "Family Tree" (and pay attention to the part where Duncan says to
Tessa that maybe the city officials don't know who Duncan's parents are,
and when she asks him why he would think that, he responds, "No
reason,"), and also "Avenging Angel" (Duncan knows Cahill's "father"
isn't his natural father), "Return of Amanda" (Duncan tells Amanda, "You
don't have a mother"), "Rite of Passage," (not only do we learn Michelle
is adopted, but that her adoptive parents don't know who her natural
parents are), "Reasonable Doubt" (where Tarsis somehow knows that
Kagan never had parents and grew up alone), and "Reunion" (where Kenny
tells Amanda that his parents found him as a baby).
Christopher Holt
>In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
>son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
>McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
They're not really related, just in the same clan at different times.
They don't know what made them that way or how they were "born".
They just happen to be raised under the clan MacLeod. They're related
in the fact that they came from the same clan, and the fact that
they're immortal. But they're not brothers in the tradition sense of
the name.
markth
>> Series immortals are all foundlings, so series universe Connor would be a
>> foundling, too. He and Duncan might be blood relatives, both being
>> immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
>Not *ALL* immortals are foundlings. We've seen at least one pre-Imm with
>her parents (god I docan't remembr the title)
>We've seen 2 Imms' who didn't know who their parents wer- Duncan and
>Richie. There is no other evidence to suggest that Imm's are Foundlings
>by nature.
Yes Michele was with her 'adopted' parents. Also from what I've heard
some of the euro-minutes from 'Kali' point towards all immortals being
foundlings.
Does anybody remember if in 'Reunion' they mentioned if Kenny was
taken in by his early family?
>This .sig has been Shortened and un-spoiled by popular request. Get over it.
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>"Commander, have you ever had a long talk with Ambassador Delenn?"
>"From time to time. Why?"
>"She and the Universe seem to have a special relationship."
>"Yes sir. Dont we all?"
> Cpt. Sheridin and Cmdr. Ivonova
> -Babylon 5
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>Telnet to Veggieworld.mcm.housing.washington.edu 4201 to Visit
>Babylon 5 MUSE.
> Jesse/Ironheart
bor...@news.epix.net
Regarding adoption, this was covered most prominently in "Family Tree" in
season 1, and Homeland from season 4.
- In Family tree, Duncan is banashed from the clan, and is later informed
that he was nothing more than a fill-in for the Chieftain's son who died
at birth. That's the scene that ended with Duncan shouting
"Where do I come from?".
- In Homeland, Duncan was reluctant to take his father's sword because as
he told his mother: "I'm not even your real son". And as his mother, and
Floyd pointed out, he was raised a MacLeod.
As an interesting sidebar on the ages, the Highlander calendar lists
Connor's birthday as 1/1/1518, and Duncans as 12/21/1592.
Tony Borisow
Mac
bioa...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Claire Maier) wrote:
>Sara H. McClintic (smcc...@access.mountain.net) wrote:
>: In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
>
>: McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
>
>: Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his
real
>
>: son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the
name
>
>: McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
>
>foundling, too. He and Duncan might be blood relatives, both being
>immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
>
By "foundlings", do you mean they were found abandoned as children?
If so, that's something I was going to ask today. I saw the ep last night
when this dude shows up pretending to be Richie's father, and showed that
flashback when Duncan's adopted father told him the truth. I also recall the
ep (forget the name) where two evil Immies were robbing a back in France in
1930? when Duncan was there. One of the evil Immies was found by the other in
Ireland as a child, and the older one told the pre-Immie chile that he knew
that he had never had parents...
So all HTS Immies are orphans, who just magically appeared on Earth?
I don't recall the series ever addressing this directly, although they've
hinted at it a lot... looks like the writers are preparing something for
the future.
Mac
JJohn201
Duncan said that he had heard a legand of a man who died in battle and
came to life again, but he thought it was an old wives tale. I don't
think that they were brothers, just clansmen. (please correct me if I am
wrong)... I have one question that has puzzled me throught the series.
How did Duncun know that Richie was an immortal without Richie feeling
Duncans presance? Are immies only able to sense other immies once they
have died for the first time? thanx
JJoh...@AOL.com
Brian Edward Smith
: In one of the first programs Duncan revealed that he really wasn't a
: McCleod. He said that his father disowned him when he was converted to an
: Immortal.His father then told him he was adopted from a peasant when his real
: son died. Duncan never learned who his real parents were, but kept the name
: McCleod. So how can Duncan and Conner be related.
The answer is simple. Duncan and Connor belong to the same clan. Most
likely they are distant cousins.
--
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I'd
never realized this before, but you're right.
By the way, is the second Highlander movie considered to be "canon," or
whatever? (I know they apparently retconned out Connor's winning the
Gathering; somebody made reference to his having beaten Kirgan seven
years ago earlier this season.) Perhaps all Immortals are aliens.
(Though I HATED that second movie; I'd rather it not be in the Highlander
continuity.)
Claire Maier
: I think that Conner was a man in the time of Duncan's grandfather.
Yes, to all your questions.
Claire Maier
: By "foundlings", do you mean they were found abandoned as children?
: If so, that's something I was going to ask today. I saw the ep last night
: when this dude shows up pretending to be Richie's father, and showed that
: flashback when Duncan's adopted father told him the truth. I also recall the
: ep (forget the name) where two evil Immies were robbing a back in France in
: 1930? when Duncan was there. One of the evil Immies was found by the other in
: Ireland as a child, and the older one told the pre-Immie chile that he knew
: that he had never had parents...
: So all HTS Immies are orphans, who just magically appeared on Earth?
: I don't recall the series ever addressing this directly, although they've
: hinted at it a lot... looks like the writers are preparing something for
: the future.
Yep. Although I don't know that "magically appeared on Earth" is quite
what's implied. They don't know who their parents are, but whoever or
whatever spawns immortals is generally assumed to be of earth origin, and
what's shown is consistent with an immortal's parents leaving the infants
with mortals to be raised.
I don't know that the writers are preparing something for the future. I
think it's been stated that unless a really super excellent story becomes
available, the origins of immortals will remain mysterious.
Claire Maier
: Somebody made the point that all the immortals are foundlings. Oddly,
Nope; Highlander 2 isn't canon. It's in its own little universe all by
itself.
Matthew Russotto
}B5 MUSE <mu...@veggieworld.mcm.housing.washington.edu> wrote:
}
}>> Series immortals are all foundlings, so series universe Connor would be a
}>> foundling, too. He and Duncan might be blood relatives, both being
}>> immortals, but there's no way for them to ever tell.
}
}>her parents (god I docan't remembr the title)
}>We've seen 2 Imms' who didn't know who their parents wer- Duncan and
}>Richie. There is no other evidence to suggest that Imm's are Foundlings
}>by nature.
}
}Yes Michele was with her 'adopted' parents. Also from what I've heard
}some of the euro-minutes from 'Kali' point towards all immortals being
}foundlings.
Don't forget in "The Return of Amanda"
Amanda: ...I swear on my mother's grave
Duncan: You don't have a mother!
Brenda F. Bell
>They're related
>in the fact that they came from the same clan, and the fact that
>they're immortal. But they're not brothers in the tradition sense of
>the name.
They're brothers-in-arms, brothers in the quest for Good to win the
Prize. . .
Brenda F. Bell
bfb...@dorsai.org
cpea...@castle.net
>people from all over the world share the same <firstname> <middlename>
><lastname> layout. But many names are anglicanized to that format. so
>Conner of the Clan MacLeod, becomes Conner MacLeod. Duncan on the other
>hand was adopted by the Head of the Clan (pun intended) who's last name
>WOULD be MacLeod, so he becomes "Duncan MacLeod of the clan MacLeod"
I think you missed the idea of what a clan really means (or maybe you didn't
but someone else has). A clan is not necessarily made up of people who are
related in any direct manner. Without getting into the complexities of the
clan structure, basically, the idea is that there are a group of people who
may or may not be related, but who recognize each other as kin, which is not
the same as being actually related. As such, they are considered family, much
in the same way, as say, your Uncle Bob, who really isn't your uncle. Not
quite, but the metaphor is valid.
Remember, they never said they were actual cousins or anything like that, they
only said they were kin and clansmen, which, is basically the same thing.
As for the first name-last name example above, that doesn't quite prove
anything. Members of the same clan would have the same surname, to a certain
level, although that is more a modern invention to make it easier to deal with
. It's hard to put Connor of the Clan MacLeod on a driver's license, so to
speak. On a non-clan basis, however, something liek that does hold, since
there is a certain level where marriage and name changes will affect how names
work.
Generally, it's all a measure of understanding the nature of clans and the
nature of kinship as opposed to actual blood descent. The following the name
thing, is basically an unrelated idea.
-Craig.
--
cpea...@daniel.drew.edu cpea...@castle.net
"Reality is a big, nasty, vicious dragon." --JP
"But I don't believe in dragons." --CP
http://daniel.drew.edu/~cpearlma
Dr Shirley Kahlert
>: How did Duncun know that Richie was an immortal without Richie feeling
>: Duncans presance?
How do you answer 'yes' to that, huh?
Nat Hall