Highlander's Nielsen ratings????
flynhayn
Highlander? I find it hard to believe that the ratings slumped after
the best seasons (3,4,5) that's when the stories were the best. I guess
we lost the simple minded fans of Baywatch and Xena and the like, once
the stories got interesting and in depth.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
pani...@my-deja.com
season the number was 2-4 mil. viewers (average). The TPTB considered
it unsatisfying. But I am not sure that drop in the rating was the main
reason for cancelling the show.
ST:Voyager sometimes does worse and still stays on TV.
By the way, HL:The Series was top-rating scifi show in Europe for a
long, long time. It even surpassed X-Files (the deed worth mentioning).
It is on air in many European countries even now (Austria, Germany,
Russia and others).
PaniAnna
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jerri
> I guess we lost the simple minded fans
> of Baywatch and Xena and the like, once
> the stories got interesting and in depth.
Some of us watched Xena AND Highlander ... and Hercules ... and others.
Local station ran them all at 9PM on different nights of the week and
switched 'em around frequently. Those were the days.
Jerri
DonnaLetto
rerun of "Legacy" was the highest rated episode ever, with (I believe) a 5.4
(maybe just a 5.2 -- I'm doing this from memory, so I give no guarantees). We
attribute the baseball strike that summer to the success of the series.
One ratings point is a little less than a million viewers, so figure 5 - 5.2
million viewers saw the ep that week.
From that point onward, ratings steadily dropped. By season 5, which some
consider the show's "strongest" season, breaking a 3 would have been cause for
celebration -- I believe most weeks, it was around a 2.5 or so. Which means
that roughly half the audience had disappeared between that rerun of "Legacy"
and the middle of Season 5.
Donna
Shomeret
where no show does well in the ratings, and STVoyager is among their better
rated shows.
Shomeret
John Biltz
not get it in Wyoming. UPN did sell itself to all the markets. As a result
it is going to get less ratings points. If it can't be seen it will not be
seen.
Nielsien Moose
Shomeret <shom...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991008155140...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
Maggie
So I can be sure that there will never be another TV show that I like
this much, since I was in the 2.5 mil who loved it, and that wasn't
enough people.
Oh good.
Happy thoughts and something to look forward to.
That's the position I'm usually in on election day.
I feel like Eeyore.
Maggie
NiH
Which means
>that roughly half the audience had disappeared between that rerun of
"Legacy"
>and the middle of Season 5.
>
So what this means is, during the baseball strike, a whole bunch of
newbies found the show, said, "hey, this is kinda nice" and watched for a
while. But because it wasn't their *favorite* thing, they tapered off.
I've done the same thing; it's perfectly understandable. (That's how I was
about watching "Homicide" after my favorite actress, Michelle Forbes, joined
,and later left, the cast. )
NiH
SRoush2935
Sue
"...Zen Buddhists teach: 'When you pass another Bodhisatava on the road, greet
him with neither words nor silence.' This leaves you with a vast selection of
barnyard noises to choose from..."
Jane
srous...@aol.commeilfaut (SRoush2935) wrote:
> It's difficult to get ratings when shown at 11:30 p.m.
> as it was around here.
>
> Sue
The local station I watched switched times so much it was
a real challenge to find it. Some weeks 5:00 p.m., some
weeks 02:00 a.m., sometimes they'd skip a week. The only
consistent thing was it was Sat. p.m., Sun. a.m.
--
Jane
dcr...@unm.edu
>
>So I can be sure that there will never be another TV show that I like
>this much, since I was in the 2.5 mil who loved it, and that wasn't
>enough people.
>
>Oh good.
>Happy thoughts and something to look forward to.
>
>That's the position I'm usually in on election day.
>
>I feel like Eeyore.
>
There, there, Maggie. It'll be all right. I promise. :-)
If nothing else, you can always watch your tapes and go to Highlander
University.
Or maybe some of these little blue pills would help? :-)
DC
Donna
University of New Mexico
dcr...@unm.edu
"What appears to be coming at you is usually coming from you."
Jack Flanders
SUQKRT
In article <19991008231921...@ng-cl1.aol.com>,
srous...@aol.commeilfaut wrote:
>
>It's difficult to get ratings when shown at 11:30 p.m. as it was around
>here.
>
>
>Sue
you were lucky i had to watch it at 1 or 2am. i kept falling asleep no matter
how much i wanted to see it. it was the same situation with HL: The Raven.
yawwwwwwwwn.
sue
macmoosette
trolls the other white meat
b**** on wheels>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maggie
The kind and thoughtful Donna wrote...
> Maggie wrote:
> >So I can be sure that there will never be another TV show that I like
> >this much, since I was in the 2.5 mil who loved it, and that wasn't
> >enough people.
> >Oh good.
> >Happy thoughts and something to look forward to.
> >That's the position I'm usually in on election day.
> >I feel like Eeyore.
> There, there, Maggie. It'll be all right. I promise. :-)
> If nothing else, you can always watch your tapes and go to Highlander
> University.
> Or maybe some of these little blue pills would help? :-)
Thank you, Donna. If Eeyore had known you, he might ended up a featured
performer in Michael Flatley's Riverdance.
But, but, but Donna, I don't want to be medicated. I want to be entertained.
<insert wail about here>
I love the familiar songs and stories, but I am a modern soul. I need *new*
stimulation. I've read the Odyssey, but I like James Lee Burke, too. I love
the knights of the Round Table, but I want to read Cormac McCarthy's new
books. I will watch the H:TS tapes and attend classes at Highlander U, but
I'd like a new show, too. I think I must live with my pain. It is, after
all, pure and noble. If I become mellowed with little blue pills, then I
might stop questing, stop looking, stop hoping.
Are they hallucinogenic? Maybe I could conger my own show. But then there'd
be no newsgroup. And that would be ichy.
Maggie
James Bishop
the bastard child nobody wanted. At first it was on Channel 11, an
independent station. It was constantly preempted for baseball and hockey
and just about everything else. It was also constantly being moved.
Finally, it switched to another station, channel 39, and baseball followed
right along with it, so that the same things happened on Channel 39. While
I knew I would miss the series, I'll admit I was relieved that I no longer
had to hunt for it every week in a different place, sometimes in the middle
of the night. But I think that if the local stations had shown some respect
to the show and gave it a consistent berth it would have done better in the
ratings.
James
DonnaLetto wrote in message
<19991008114149...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>The highest ratings for Highlander came during the *reruns* of Season 2.
The
>rerun of "Legacy" was the highest rated episode ever, with (I believe) a
5.4
>(maybe just a 5.2 -- I'm doing this from memory, so I give no guarantees).
We
>attribute the baseball strike that summer to the success of the series.
>
>One ratings point is a little less than a million viewers, so figure 5 -
5.2
>million viewers saw the ep that week.
>
>From that point onward, ratings steadily dropped. By season 5, which some
>consider the show's "strongest" season, breaking a 3 would have been cause
for
>celebration -- I believe most weeks, it was around a 2.5 or so. Which
James Bishop
the one that is supposed to have the built-in audience (read: suckers that
will eat up anything that says Star Trek, crap or not). I believe that
Davis/Panzer was hoping for the same kind of devotion with the Raven, but
didn't get it.
Shomeret wrote in message <19991008155140...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
Jette Goldie
William Armstrong wrote in message <7tqb90$6a8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I kind of like Star Trek: Voyager. At least, I like it better than Deep
>Space Nine - although, to be fair, I haven't seen DS9 for a couple of
>years or more (I'm not sure how long it's been around, but I may have
>seen only up to the second season, or maybe even just the first, I
>really don't remember). At any rate, Voyager has had some good shows.
>The Seven of Nine character is good. At first I wasn't crazy about the
>idea, because of the main reason they were bringing her into it (her
>looks; apparently they thought guys would be channel surfing, see her,
>and stop right there - maybe they're right <g>). But, I think the
>character works. Sure, it's the Spock/Data type character, but oh well.
>
How can you fault a show that, when it needs someone beaten up,
gets the girls to do the beating <g>
Jette Goldie
jette....@u.genie.co.uk
HISTORICON 2001 - Setting the Standards for the Next Millennium
http://you.genie.co.uk/jette.goldie/
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/historicon
John Biltz
shows it showed the darker side of the Federation, What it means when your
government gives up your home world in a treaty and perhaps not everyone
would be so happy about it. The Federation would allow a planet to be raped
for 50 years for political expediency. That not every problem can be
resolved in one episode and a tachyon burst. If you only saw the first
season then you have missed a lot. I do admit the first season was a little
rough, it was still finding itself. I liked the final mix of characters,
the terrorist Colonel, the Cardassian assassin, a Klingon warrior, and a
joined Trill. Throw in the Mystical Captain a shape shifter and a few
Ferengi and it made for a good show with a lot of different points of view.
I liked the way it kept showing different sides to the Cardassians, they
went from villains to heroes and back again, in a very convincing and
believable way. Far from simple one dimensional villains.
Deep Space Moose
William Armstrong <william_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7tqb90$6a8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> I kind of like Star Trek: Voyager. At least, I like it better than Deep
> Space Nine - although, to be fair, I haven't seen DS9 for a couple of
> years or more (I'm not sure how long it's been around, but I may have
> seen only up to the second season, or maybe even just the first, I
> really don't remember). At any rate, Voyager has had some good shows.
> The Seven of Nine character is good. At first I wasn't crazy about the
> idea, because of the main reason they were bringing her into it (her
> looks; apparently they thought guys would be channel surfing, see her,
> and stop right there - maybe they're right <g>). But, I think the
> character works. Sure, it's the Spock/Data type character, but oh well.
>
> "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
> <<I believe that Davis/Panzer was hoping for the same kind of devotion
> with the Raven, but didn't get it.>>
>
> Probably were. I don't want to get into something about what they did
> wrong, blah blah blah, but the first show was pretty weak. I liked it
> toward the end, though. (And after all, the first episode of HL:TS was,
> IMO, not very good either.)
>
> Raven might've got the dedicated HL fan audience, but judging from what
> has been said here of the ratings for HL:TS, that would not have been
> nearly enough. I really don't know what they could have done. I guess
> people do want to see another ass-kicking chick in leather, but...
>
> In article <BsVL3.1401$Z7.3...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
James Bishop
watching it again!
James
William Armstrong wrote in message <7tqb90$6a8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Shomeret
too--because of the characters and because of the themes. It was a true
ensemble show. Voyager is supposed to be an ensemble show but there's more
focus on Seven of Nine than any other character. I was delighted to see the
recent B'elana episode.
Shomeret
ruthless
all the men at ....
ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
foil for Janeway>
In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
--
lady ruthless,
fair as fay-woman and fell-minded,
in the world walking for the woe of men.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
ruthless
DS9, at it's worst, was better than *any*
of the episodes in the first 3 seasons
of Voyager. Voyager has improved since
7of9 came along, and I don't just mean
in the eye candy dept. She's a great foil
for Janeway, allows more subtle plotlines
with the Borg, etc. Voyager has finally
found it's own.
ruthless<Chakotey is just fine as eye candy for moi>
In article <7tqb90$6a8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> In article <BsVL3.1401$Z7.3...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
> > She's right. And remember, Voyager is the UPN network's flagship
> show, and
> > the one that is supposed to have the built-in audience (read:
suckers
> that
> > will eat up anything that says Star Trek, crap or not). I believe
> that
> > Davis/Panzer was hoping for the same kind of devotion with the
Raven,
> but
> > didn't get it.
> >
> > Shomeret wrote in message
> <19991008155140...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
> > >Re STVoyager doing worse and staying on the air-- STVoyager is on a
> network
> > >where no show does well in the ratings, and STVoyager is among
their
> better
> > >rated shows.
> > >
> > > Shomeret
> >
> >
>
ruthless
ruthless<likes DS9 the best of all><oops, make that liked DS9>
<::::::sigh:::::::>
In article <7tqhnm$8rr$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"John Biltz" <bilt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> DS9 is my favorite of the ST series. The show rocked. Unlike the
other
> shows it showed the darker side of the Federation, What it means when
your
> government gives up your home world in a treaty and perhaps not
everyone
> would be so happy about it. The Federation would allow a planet to be
raped
> for 50 years for political expediency. That not every problem can be
> resolved in one episode and a tachyon burst. If you only saw the
first
> season then you have missed a lot. I do admit the first season was a
little
> rough, it was still finding itself. I liked the final mix of
characters,
> the terrorist Colonel, the Cardassian assassin, a Klingon warrior, and
a
> joined Trill. Throw in the Mystical Captain a shape shifter and a few
> Ferengi and it made for a good show with a lot of different points of
view.
> I liked the way it kept showing different sides to the Cardassians,
they
> went from villains to heroes and back again, in a very convincing and
> believable way. Far from simple one dimensional villains.
>
> Deep Space Moose
>
> William Armstrong <william_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:7tqb90$6a8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
DonnaLetto
>to the show and gave it a consistent berth it would have done better in the
>ratings.
It's a downward spiral.
If the show had been a raging hit right out of the box, it would have a great
slot at a great time and never been moved. But it wasn't, so stations either
started moving it to try and find a better slot for it that would bring in more
viewers, or after a while, they started just getting it out of the way of shows
that brought them better ratings. Or they'd move it to give the slot to a
brand new show that had the potential of bringing them more viewers.
The worse the ratings, the worse the time slot, and so on and so on, until some
local stations stopped carrying it at all.
Donna
James Bishop
Ryan...(wink)
ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
>all the men at ....
>
>ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> foil for Janeway>
>
>In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
James Bishop
James
Shomeret wrote in message <19991010142718...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
John Biltz
> I've heard Worf was in DS9, though. He was cool.
>
He married the big haired Dax. They had a lot of chemistry and racked up a
lot of doctor bills together. But I always liked Dax, those spots! And they
went all the way down (thunk)! There were a lot of interesting shows about
her joined condition.
> I think it would be nice to see the darker side of the Federation. It
> always bugged me with the other shows how they always seemed to be in
> the right, and problems were almost always wrapped up nicely at the end
> of an episode (or in some cases two episodes). The Federation is too
> perfect in the others. So, I guess I did miss out by only seeing season
> one. But I'm sure I will catch the rest of them eventually.
>
> One of the characters I couldn't stand was that Major Kira. And that
> other one, Dax, her hair was too big. <g> Jake also seemed kind of
> wimpy. Hopefully that changed.
Jake became a writer, he was never a warior of joined Starfleet which would
have been a cliche anyway, but on occasion showed great courage.
I grew to like Kira, pound for pound the toughest person on the station. Let
me change that, she was the toughest person on the station. If everyone
else died and there could be only two survivors on the whole show it would
be her and Garick the Cardasion spy/assassin/tailor.
You also missed a huge interstellar war that went on for over two years and
killed millions. I could not get Voyager in Wyoming and can't get new ones
now but I watch the reruns. I was amazed when I moved to Wyoming how little
I missed Voyager.
BOB was halfway through the first season, the last episode before they went
to Paris.
Deep Spaced Moose
>
> Season one might've been rough, but then the first season usually is.
> ST:TNG was pretty bad the first season or three. Voyager only really
> started shaping up in the last two seasons. Of course, I didn't like
> most of Highlander's first season either. Depends on where Band of
> Brothers came in. I started liking it with that episode.
> > > In article <BsVL3.1401$Z7.3...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
John Biltz
uninteresting people. I really blame the casting on Voyager for most of its
problems, never has so many annoying or uninteresting people been assembled
on a space craft. The Doctor is the only person to show any real character.
Admittedly Federation personnel normally act suspiciously like Stepford
wives but at least the Maquis should be interesting. That murderer was a
notable exception and he was a psychopath and only in a few episodes.
Bored Moose
James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:vt7M3.2101$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to watch Jeri
> Ryan...(wink)
>
> ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
> >all the men at ....
> >
> >ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> > part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> > foil for Janeway>
> >
> >In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
dalroy and/or edie
I thought DS9 was a very good show in many ways, and far
superior to Voyager, mostly because the writing was so much
better. I liked it for all of the reasons that John mentioned.
But it also drove me nuts, mostly because the best actors on
the show were under-utilized and the most annoying actors on
the show were, well... annoying.
And I hated the way they messed around with Odo (who was one of
the best characters).
As for Voyager... Well, I think the show vastly improved when
7of9 appeared. Frankly, I think Voyager suffered when it was an
ensemble show, because most of the characters couldn't carry it.
IMO, Jeri Ryan can, and Kate Mulgrew also, when she's given a
decently written part. The others? Nah. They're all nice, and
not very interesting, except possibly for Chakotay.
The thing that bugs me most about it is how they squandered
almost all of the cool conflict they could have portrayed
between the Maquis and the federation crewmembers, and how
unimaginative the scripts were for so long.
Jmho...
Edie
dalroy and/or edie
I forgot to mention the doctor. He really carried the show
in the first season IMO, and continues to be a strong character.
Edie
dalroy and/or edie
John Biltz wrote:
>
> William Armstrong <william_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:7tqscs$hr4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > I've heard Worf was in DS9, though. He was cool.
> >
> He married the big haired Dax. They had a lot of chemistry and racked up a
> lot of doctor bills together. But I always liked Dax, those spots! And they
> went all the way down (thunk)! There were a lot of interesting shows about
> her joined condition.
Unfortunately, I think the character was great on paper, but
the actress never made me believe that she was anything other
than a pretty actress. She wasn't believable to me at all
in the part.
snips
> >
> > One of the characters I couldn't stand was that Major Kira. And that
> > other one, Dax, her hair was too big. <g> Jake also seemed kind of
> > wimpy. Hopefully that changed.
>
> Jake became a writer, he was never a warior of joined Starfleet which would
> have been a cliche anyway, but on occasion showed great courage.
I liked Jake a lot, but I agree with William about Kira. She
annoyed the heck out of me! She was *supposed* to be this tough
character, but to me she had 'victim' written all over her
expression. I hated that pinched look she always wore. It
didn't convey the 'tough ex-resistance fighter haunted by what
she'd experienced' to me, it just made me think she was going
to burst into tears at any moment. Oh well. :-)
>
> I grew to like Kira, pound for pound the toughest person on the station. Let
> me change that, she was the toughest person on the station. If everyone
> else died and there could be only two survivors on the whole show it would
> be her and Garick the Cardasion spy/assassin/tailor.
Ah, now *there* was a *fantastic* character! He was worth 20
Daxes and Kiras IMHO...
Edie
> Deep Spaced Moose
Jette Goldie
dalroy and/or edie wrote in message <38017EA8...@erols.com>...
>Hi!
>
>John Biltz wrote:
>>
>> William Armstrong <william_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:7tqscs$hr4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> > I've heard Worf was in DS9, though. He was cool.
>> >
>> He married the big haired Dax. They had a lot of chemistry and racked up
a
>> lot of doctor bills together. But I always liked Dax, those spots! And
they
>> went all the way down (thunk)! There were a lot of interesting shows
about
>> her joined condition.
>
>the actress never made me believe that she was anything other
>than a pretty actress. She wasn't believable to me at all
>in the part.
>
Oh, I have to disagree. Jadzira Dax had a ....serenity... that,
combined with a wicked sense of humour and a penchent
for, well, just being *wicked*, that was incredibly attractive.
Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
ruthless
I've always faulted shoddy writing and story lines.
THey wrote Kes into a corner, and had to get rid
of her (replaced by 7of9, mind you, but still),
I think the actors have been up to the material
presented them. I don't think they've been presented
with particularly challenging or inciteful writing.
Only recently has Voyager adopted storylines that
aren't ST:yet again. By that I mean, Voyager is
in a unique situation.....the plots needed to
use that for development.....
ruthless<Kira is my role model>
"John Biltz" <bilt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Actually there are three she is an interesting character among that
sea of
> uninteresting people. I really blame the casting on Voyager for most
of its
> problems, never has so many annoying or uninteresting people been
assembled
> on a space craft. The Doctor is the only person to show any real
character.
> Admittedly Federation personnel normally act suspiciously like
Stepford
> wives but at least the Maquis should be interesting. That murderer
was a
> notable exception and he was a psychopath and only in a few episodes.
>
> Bored Moose
>
> James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
> news:vt7M3.2101$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> > You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to watch
Jeri
> > Ryan...(wink)
> >
> > ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > >you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
> > >all the men at ....
> > >
> > >ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> > > part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> > > foil for Janeway>
> > >
> > >In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> > > "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
> > >> Then they obviously knew what they were doing, because Seven of
Nine
> > >got me
> > >> watching it again!
> > >>
> > >> James
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
lady ruthless,
fair as fay-woman and fell-minded,
in the world walking for the woe of men.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
ruthless
> I thought DS9 was a very good show in many ways, and far
> superior to Voyager, mostly because the writing was so much
> better.
I agree
<snip>
> As for Voyager... Well, I think the show vastly improved when
> 7of9 appeared. Frankly, I think Voyager suffered when it was an
> ensemble show, because most of the characters couldn't carry it.
I'm not sure I agree here. I wrote this in another
reply to John, but I"ll say it again here.
I think Voyager suffered from bad writing and bad
stories. Only when 7o9 came on did they start
to *use* the fact that Voyager was not the same
as the other star treks. They're travelling *through*
space, *far* from home. They are *alone.*
> IMO, Jeri Ryan can, and Kate Mulgrew also, when she's given a
> decently written part. The others? Nah. They're all nice, and
> not very interesting, except possibly for Chakotay.
Glad you excepted Chakoty
:::::thunk::::::
The thing that bugs me most about it is how they squandered
> almost all of the cool conflict they could have portrayed
> between the Maquis and the federation crewmembers, and how
> unimaginative the scripts were for so long.
See?? this is IMHO bad writing, not bad acting
> Jmho...
and mine
ruthless<thunking again><g>
ruthless
Edie:
> I forgot to mention the doctor. He really carried the show
> in the first season IMO, and continues to be a strong character.
I agree, enthusiastically.
And the interaction between Holo-Doc and 7 of 9
is brilliant.
ruthless<Kira, Janeway, and Seven are my role models>
<in the Borg B!chin Babe sense>
ruthless
Edie(about Dax):
> Unfortunately, I think the character was great on paper, but
> the actress never made me believe that she was anything other
> than a pretty actress. She wasn't believable to me at all
> in the part.
Hmmm....I think she improved as the series progressed...
and she acted well with Michael Dorn
> I liked Jake a lot, but I agree with William about Kira. She
> annoyed the heck out of me! She was *supposed* to be this tough
> character, but to me she had 'victim' written all over her
> expression. I hated that pinched look she always wore. It
> didn't convey the 'tough ex-resistance fighter haunted by what
> she'd experienced' to me, it just made me think she was going
> to burst into tears at any moment. Oh well. :-)
Kira is my role model.....
she was a resistance fighter....not
the nicest of people in not the nicest of times
but I want her on *my* side <g>
William (or was it John):
>>and Garick the Cardasion spy/assassin/tailor.
Edie:
> Ah, now *there* was a *fantastic* character! He was worth 20
> Daxes and Kiras IMHO...
I think Garick is possibly the most complicated
character ever written on any Star Trek....and
he had a minor role...was he on our side, their
side??
Superb.
ruthless<never has an opinion, oh no, not me>
<g>
--
lady ruthless,
fair as fay-woman and fell-minded,
in the world walking for the woe of men.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
dalroy and/or edie
Jette Goldie wrote:
>
> dalroy and/or edie wrote in message <38017EA8...@erols.com>...
> >Hi!
> >
> >John Biltz wrote:
> >>
> >> William Armstrong <william_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >> news:7tqscs$hr4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >> > I've heard Worf was in DS9, though. He was cool.
> >> >
> >> He married the big haired Dax. They had a lot of chemistry and racked up
> a
> >> lot of doctor bills together. But I always liked Dax, those spots! And
> they
> >> went all the way down (thunk)! There were a lot of interesting shows
> about
> >> her joined condition.
> >
> >Unfortunately, I think the character was great on paper, but
> >the actress never made me believe that she was anything other
> >than a pretty actress. She wasn't believable to me at all
> >in the part.
> >
>
> Oh, I have to disagree. Jadzira Dax had a ....serenity... that,
> combined with a wicked sense of humour and a penchent
> for, well, just being *wicked*, that was incredibly attractive.
>
> Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
But Jette, I never said she wasn't attractive. She's
*extremely* attractive. Okay- I said pretty, and that didn't
do her justice. But her attractiveness was never at issue.
IMO, it's Terry Farrell's acting ability that is debatable.
She looked and acted, to me, like a 20th century human model/
actress playing a role. I never found her believable in the
part. But I agree that she was eminently watchable. :-)
Edie
>
> Jette Goldie
TBird
<william_...@my-deja.com> writes:
>Well, I did also watch Hercules and Xena, but I can't say I would ever
>be as into them as with Highlander. It's too bad that Highlander, IMO
>the better show by far, had such a limited audience.
I watch Xena and Herc - but not faithfully. And not for the same reasons. I
often consider X and H to be comedy. So it's more escapist for me. HL was
something more substantial somehow.
I would have watched HL faithfully, as I do now, if I could have found it in
the same place every week. I used to find it, mark the day and time, program
it as an alarm on my watch, and then WHAM....it would be gone. Or I'd catch
the last half, or watched the credits roll by.
TBird <----- in the middle of an allergy attack
~
~ ~ ~
Live so that when your children think
of fairness, caring, and integrity,
they think of you.
TBird
you! I usually vote and then run away for several hours until it's all over.
And I know why I didn't watch Season 5 - I could never find it! It kept
hopping around and I never saw OMTM. It was driving me insane.
TBird <----- also feeling Eeyore-ish <---- where's my tail?
In article <37FE5BC1...@mail.utexas.edu>, Maggie <c...@mail.utexas.edu>
writes:
>So I can be sure that there will never be another TV show that I like
>this much, since I was in the 2.5 mil who loved it, and that wasn't
>enough people.
>
>
>Oh good.
>
>
>Happy thoughts and something to look forward to.
>
>
>That's the position I'm usually in on election day.
>
>
>I feel like Eeyore.
>
>
>Maggie
Susan Stansfield
In article <7tqrt0$hh1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, William wrote:
<<<<"James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
Then they obviously knew what they were doing, because Seven of Nine
got me watching it again!
James>>
Well...yes, I must admit it helped renew my interest in the show. :-)
>>
You two and *lot* of other guys! ;-)
Susan
Susan Stansfield
In article <vt7M3.2101$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>, "James wrote:
<<You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to watch Jeri
Ryan...(wink)
ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
>all the men at ....
>
>ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> foil for Janeway>>>
And don't think we women don't know what those two reasons are, James. (wink
backatya).
Susan ;-)
Claire Maier
: She's right. And remember, Voyager is the UPN network's flagship show, and
: the one that is supposed to have the built-in audience (read: suckers that
: will eat up anything that says Star Trek, crap or not). I believe that
: Davis/Panzer was hoping for the same kind of devotion with the Raven, but
: didn't get it.
Um, no they weren't. There weren't enough HL fans to support a series.
What DPP, Gaumont, Rysher, etc., were hoping was that Raven would attract
the HL fans *and* the Xena and La Femme Nikita fans. I think they were
trying to be all things to all people, and ended up not being much to
anyone.
--
Claire Maier bioa...@emory.edu CLMaier (within AOL only)
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
John Biltz
puke. The did the year of hell what 8 times, they have a whole new part of
the galaxy to play with and every week they are going back in time.
You are right about Kess, she had real serenity, that and stillness. Has
she done anything since she left?
Voyaging Moose
James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:EWwM3.1518$tZ4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> I think the lady who played Kes had so much potential that was wasted
away.
> Now there was someone that was able to display an inner serenity!
>
> The writing is the problem on the series. How many aliens infiltrate the
> ship stories can you do?
>
> James
>
> ruthless wrote in message <7tta6o$83m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >> > You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to watch
> >Jeri
> >> > Ryan...(wink)
> >> >
> >> > ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >> > >you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
> >> > >all the men at ....
> >> > >
> >> > >ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> >> > > part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> >> > > foil for Janeway>
> >> > >
> >> > >In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> >> > > "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
> >> > >> Then they obviously knew what they were doing, because Seven of
> >Nine
> >> > >got me
> >> > >> watching it again!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> James
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
James Bishop
James
John Biltz wrote in message <7train$k4j$2...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
James Bishop
Now there was someone that was able to display an inner serenity!
The writing is the problem on the series. How many aliens infiltrate the
ship stories can you do?
James
ruthless wrote in message <7tta6o$83m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Do you really think that's a casting problem??
>I've always faulted shoddy writing and story lines.
>THey wrote Kes into a corner, and had to get rid
>of her (replaced by 7of9, mind you, but still),
>I think the actors have been up to the material
>presented them. I don't think they've been presented
>with particularly challenging or inciteful writing.
>Only recently has Voyager adopted storylines that
>aren't ST:yet again. By that I mean, Voyager is
>in a unique situation.....the plots needed to
>use that for development.....
>
>ruthless<Kira is my role model>
>
>
>"John Biltz" <bilt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
James Bishop
James
dalroy and/or edie wrote in message <38017E89...@erols.com>...
>Hi!
>
>I forgot to mention the doctor. He really carried the show
>in the first season IMO, and continues to be a strong character.
>
>Edie
James Bishop
>
>Oh, I have to disagree. Jadzira Dax had a ....serenity... that,
>combined with a wicked sense of humour and a penchent
>for, well, just being *wicked*, that was incredibly attractive.
>
>Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
>
>
Oh! I'm having flashbacks to T-Bird's shower story!
James Bishop
Claire Maier wrote in message <7ttp6g$fak$1...@jet.cc.emory.edu>...
>James Bishop (james.b...@gte.net) wrote:
>: She's right. And remember, Voyager is the UPN network's flagship show,
and
>: the one that is supposed to have the built-in audience (read: suckers
that
>: will eat up anything that says Star Trek, crap or not). I believe that
>: Davis/Panzer was hoping for the same kind of devotion with the Raven, but
>: didn't get it.
>
>Um, no they weren't. There weren't enough HL fans to support a series.
>What DPP, Gaumont, Rysher, etc., were hoping was that Raven would attract
>the HL fans *and* the Xena and La Femme Nikita fans. I think they were
>trying to be all things to all people, and ended up not being much to
>anyone.
>
Adrian Paul's show to continue watching Raven faithfully. What happened was
the show was such a disappointment that after the first few episodes many
Highlander fans tuned out. There was an expectation that the Highlander
fans would give Raven the loyalty they showed Highlander: The Series.
As for the other points you made about the Xena/La Femme Nikita audience,
you're absolutely right.
James
James
DonnaLetto
>Adrian Paul's show to continue watching Raven faithfully. What happened was
>the show was such a disappointment that after the first few episodes many
>Highlander fans tuned out. There was an expectation that the Highlander
>fans would give Raven the loyalty they showed Highlander: The Series.
That all depends on which "THEY" you think you're speaking for. Each of the
various entities involved, from USA to DPP and all the acronyms between, had
their own agenda and their own expectations.
I'm sure DPP hoped that the Highlander audience would keep watching for the
swords and the Qs. But I know for a fact that if USA had continued on with
their interest in Raven, they didn't give a damn about the loyalty of the
Highlander audience (which, as Claire pointed out, isn't enough to keep a show
on the air) as long as they got something that would keep the La Femme audience
from changing the channel. I'm sure the half dozen other entities involved in
the show fell somewhere on the spectrum between the two.
When it comes to Highlander: The Series, and especially Highlander: The Raven,
there is no single-minded "THEY."
Donna
James Bishop
>When it comes to Highlander: The Series, and especially Highlander: The
Raven,
>there is no single-minded "THEY."
>
>Donna
>
Yes, therein lies the problem.
TBird
<james.b...@gte.net> writes:
>>Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
>>
>>Jette Goldie
>>
>
>Oh! I'm having flashbacks to T-Bird's shower story!
HEY!
I didn't get turned! Wasn't born that way. Every way I turn, I end up going
... ummm... straight. :-)
TBird <---- but that hasn't kept me from turning corners
Velia Tanner and Friends
Ya think?
I would say, therein lies the potential for magic.
V.
DonnaLetto
>Raven,
>>there is no single-minded "THEY."
>>
>>Donna
>>
>
>Yes, therein lies the problem.
Then you'd best stop watching television all together, because there's not a
show made that is the vision of a single-minded entity, as much as the devotees
of J. Michael and David E. try to propagandize to the contrary <g>
Donna
James Bishop
here in the movie American X (she wasn't playing serene). If anybody knows
anything she's doing currently, let us know.
James
John Biltz wrote in message <7tuhv4$ha$2...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>That and time travel, if they do one more time travel story I am going to
>puke. The did the year of hell what 8 times, they have a whole new part of
>the galaxy to play with and every week they are going back in time.
>
>You are right about Kess, she had real serenity, that and stillness. Has
>she done anything since she left?
>
>Voyaging Moose
>
>James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:EWwM3.1518$tZ4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
>> I think the lady who played Kes had so much potential that was wasted
>away.
>> Now there was someone that was able to display an inner serenity!
>>
>> The writing is the problem on the series. How many aliens infiltrate the
>> ship stories can you do?
>>
>> James
>>
>> ruthless wrote in message <7tta6o$83m$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> >Do you really think that's a casting problem??
>> >I've always faulted shoddy writing and story lines.
>> >THey wrote Kes into a corner, and had to get rid
>> >of her (replaced by 7of9, mind you, but still),
>> >I think the actors have been up to the material
>> >presented them. I don't think they've been presented
>> >with particularly challenging or inciteful writing.
>> >Only recently has Voyager adopted storylines that
>> >aren't ST:yet again. By that I mean, Voyager is
>> >in a unique situation.....the plots needed to
>> >use that for development.....
>> >
>> >ruthless<Kira is my role model>
>> >
>> >
>> >"John Biltz" <bilt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> Actually there are three she is an interesting character among that
>> >sea of
>> >> uninteresting people. I really blame the casting on Voyager for most
>> >of its
>> >> problems, never has so many annoying or uninteresting people been
>> >assembled
>> >> on a space craft. The Doctor is the only person to show any real
>> >character.
>> >> Admittedly Federation personnel normally act suspiciously like
>> >Stepford
>> >> wives but at least the Maquis should be interesting. That murderer
>> >was a
>> >> notable exception and he was a psychopath and only in a few episodes.
>> >>
>> >> Bored Moose
>> >>
James Bishop
DonnaLetto wrote in message
<19991011232634...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
When one doesn't live up to the potential of the other, then I DO stop
watching TV, just as I stopped watching Raven. My life is made up of units
of time, and when a person, organization, or show wastes my time they are
wasting my life. So I won't blindly follow anything just because it has a
pedigree, be it a person or a TV show. Of course shows are not a product of
one mind, that wasn't the point. The point was that a lackluster show
turned off some Highlander viewers and they turned away. Some people don't
like being taken for a ride. Davis/Panzer have made many misteps along the
way, should I mention Highlander II? Highlander III? Giving us episodes of
Highlander without a single member of the cast in it? Raven? The Highlander
Store? As far as shows being a group collaboration, in Hegelian terms that
is called synthesis, and its there in that cooperation that something good
comes from that.
It's also interesting to note that Davis/Panzer have chased after the
American market so hard and at the same time, behind the scenes, have
discriminated against it, not allowing American writers to participate and
restricting the appearances of American actors. You of all people should
know that, Donna.
James
dalroy and/or edie
I'm not quite sure what 'theys' we're talking about here. I
admit to as much ignorance as to how things work in TV as
anyone, but it would seem to me that if we're talking about
creative theys, the more input the better, so long as there
is one person or small group of people who have the final say-
just so decisons get made. :-)
But if we're talking about executive theys- it would seem to me
that the more people with different agendas, the worse off a
show would be. I agree with what Claire said, about trying to
be all things to all people. It can't be done, and if one tries
to do that, the product comes across as either completely
bland, or a confused mixture of competing ideas, IMO.
I realize also that often creative theys and executive theys
are the same people.
I know I don't speak for anyone but myself, but I thought
that The Raven did not have a well-defined concept. The
concept seemed to go through multiple changes, and wound up
being murky, IMO. I attributed this in part to the fact that
at first the concept had to be geared to what the USA execs
wanted, and then when they dropped it, to a whole new set of
expectations. In the Raven's case, it *did* seem to me that
there were too many theys involved.
But these are just my impressions, and I have no trouble
admitting that I could be all wrong.
So let's use a hypothetical show where the concept is truly
ill-defined. What is the reason behind that? Is it too many
theys or too few? Or does it have nothing to do with the number
of theys at all?
(Better stop now, all of these theys are making me giggle. :-))
Edie
ruthless
for example....I *loved* the episode with Andy Dick
as guest-holodoc. I have watched that one many
times.....with tears in my eyes.
The time travel gets annoying....but I liked
the one where the guy was arrested for going nuts
<how could I relate to that??><eg> because he
was obsessing on Janeways many many time travel
problems.....at least they *acknowledge*
that this is being used more than it should
be for your average starfleet officer <except
Kirk and Picard, of course>
Was time travel ever used on ST:DS9????
<if the answer is no....another point in its favor>
ruthless<still thinks Janeway is an excellent
role model for women....we need more of them
in all of television....><likes Queen Amidala
too>
In article <7tuhv4$ha$2...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
ruthless
stands for....is it an abbreviation for heterosexual??
<I'm clueless>
But you *do* remember the Dax storyline with the
*other* female symbiont??
ruthless<much preferred the Doctor in DS9><yum>
In article <NUwM3.1515$tZ4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
"James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Oh, I have to disagree. Jadzira Dax had a ....serenity... that,
> >combined with a wicked sense of humour and a penchent
> >for, well, just being *wicked*, that was incredibly attractive.
> >
> >Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
> >
> >Jette Goldie
> >
>
> Oh! I'm having flashbacks to T-Bird's shower story!
>
>
--
John Biltz
faults it was a good idea. I think you should have gave Raven a chance, I
mean I could have gave up on HL after watching The Gathering and Freefall
and justified the action quite easily. I thought Raven was a good show,
certainly nothing to be ashamed of and quite frankly I would rather watch
the Raven than season 1 of HL. There were 2 good episodes in season 1 BOB
and The Hunters. There were several excellent Ravens. I thought it was
Canada that restricted the appearance of American actors, are they running
Canada now?
James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:D_GM3.86$uI3....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
>
> DonnaLetto wrote in message
> <19991011232634...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> >>>When it comes to Highlander: The Series, and especially Highlander: The
> >>Raven,
> >>>there is no single-minded "THEY."
> >>>
> >>>Donna
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yes, therein lies the problem.
> >
> >Then you'd best stop watching television all together, because there's
not
> a
> >show made that is the vision of a single-minded entity, as much as the
> devotees
> >of J. Michael and David E. try to propagandize to the contrary <g>
> >
> >Donna
> >
>
John Biltz
go back to our future and get this guy killed who was supposed to make great
social changes and Sisko takes his place. It was also used to go back to
the trouble with Tribbles. This was a very funny episode. One of the very
best time travel shows ever done. Dax in the old Star Fleet uniform was
great with her drooling over Spock, the different looking Klingons, the
Temporal Police were funny,
Deep Spaced Moose
ruthless <lady_r...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7tvmth$vdn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
> > > >> James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
> > > >> news:vt7M3.2101$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> > > >> > You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to
> watch
> > > >Jeri
> > > >> > Ryan...(wink)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > > >> > >you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
> > > >> > >all the men at ....
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
> > > >> > > part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
> > > >> > > foil for Janeway>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> > > >> > > "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
> > > >> > >> Then they obviously knew what they were doing, because Seven
> of
> > > >Nine
> > > >> > >got me
> > > >> > >> watching it again!
> > > >> > >>
> > > >> > >> James
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
GinjerB
<<Donna can do this better than me, and probably will--but wherever did you get
the idea that it was a decision of Davis/Panzer to exclude American writers and
actors?
I was the Money that dictated that--HL was financed by Canada and France. And
the Money set the rules.
I'm sure that DP would have been very happy if someone domestic had weighed in
with bucks. I think, tho I'm not sure, that Gaumont would have had to been a
part of the equation. (They own some HL rights somehow?) But if the other Money
had not been Canadian, things could have been different.
Perhaps you're not aware that Canada has very strict rules and regs about the
citizenship of who works on entertanment projects, both in front and behind the
camera?
You also seem to be implying that American tv writers would somehow have been
better. Perhaps. But not neccessarily. All Canadian writers are not Bob and
Doug Mackenzie, you know? In point of fact, Karen Harris and Jim Thorpe, altho
they are Canadian citizens, have both lived in the US for quite a while. (Yes,
we're nicer about that sort of thing than Canada.)
Also, the Highlander episode w/o anyone from HL (which I actually thought was
one of the best of season six) wasn't some DP brainstorm--it was dictated by
Adrian's availability, as was INDISCRESTIONS.
GinjerB
<< If this is a redundant message, I aplogize. I'm not sure if it got sent
already.
So, again, and probably more briefly:
The decision to "exclude" American writers and actors had naught to do with DP.
The Money made those rules--and the Money was Canadian and French. I suspect
that DP would have been extremely happy if domestic finanacing had appeared.
But it didn't --and they have very strict regs in Canada about the citizenship
of who works on entertainment projects, both in front of and behind the
cameras.
Plus which, you seem to be assuming that American writers and American actors
would somehow have been better. From which *I* can only assume that you really
don't watch a lot of American-made tv. <g>
Lastly, it wasn't any DP brainstorm that led to an epi w/o any of the familiar
faces. It was dictated by Adrian's availability, as was the lack of Duncan in
INDESCRETIONS.
Okay, lastly plus one--RAVEN was a work-in-progress. It got better--a lot
better. (IMHO) As many people have said, anyone who judged HL from the first
few epis and checked out would have been astounded to check back in later, say
in Season 5.
GinjerB
GinjerB
>That and time travel, if they do one more time travel story I am going to
>puke. The did the year of hell what 8 times, they have a whole new part of
>the galaxy to play with and every week they are going back in time.
<<Brandon Braga *loves* time travel. I would bet that every epi of NEXT GEN in
which time travel figured was one of his. So as long as he's an on-deck writer,
we're going to see more time travel.
If we watch at all. <g>
>
BUCC9
>All Canadian writers are not Bob and
>Doug Mackenzie, you know?
I *love* the Mackenzie brothers...Strange Brew is one of my all time favorite
movies. Perhaps that doesn't say much for my taste (others on the list include
Rob Roy and Finnigan's Rainbow -- eccletic to say the least), but well, I'll
just have to live with it.
Heard somewhere (was it here?) that they might be doing a Strange Brew 2!
...lisa<can't wait><hosed to the max>
TBird
(GinjerB) writes:
>You also seem to be implying that American tv writers would somehow have been
>better. Perhaps. But not neccessarily. All Canadian writers are not Bob and
>Doug Mackenzie, you know? In point of fact, Karen Harris and Jim Thorpe,
>altho
>they are Canadian citizens, have both lived in the US for quite a while.
>(Yes,
>we're nicer about that sort of thing than Canada.)
There are some GREAT Canadian childrens show's on Nickolodeon. In fact, we
don't watch the PBS children's shows - I mean, Sesame Street has been overrun
by Elmo, then there is the babytalking dinosaur, Teletubbies, The Big Comfy
Couch (how irritating is THAT), and more garbage that I haven't even bothered
to give a chance. But the Canadian shows are all beautifully written, well
executed, and fun to watch. Richard Scarys Busytown, Franklin (theme song by
Bruce Cockburn), and Little Bear, all happy positive shows. All Canadian.
TBird <---- Canadaphile
TBird
> quite frankly I would rather watch
>the Raven than season 1 of HL.
That makes three of us.
Are you there Jette?
TBird <---- didn't expect Raven to be perfect, especially after S1 of HL:TS,
which was saved only by Tessa, IMHO
TBird
><<Brandon Braga *loves* time travel.
Harumph.
They need to send him over to Herc. They do time travel poorly, IMHO.
I am dying to see Herc go FORWARD instead of backward in time. Not as KS the
actor, but to be transported to present day Greece as Hercules, through some
misadventure. I'd like to see his anient perspective and morals make it
through all the trials and tribulations of here and now. I'd like to see him
deal with athiesm and automobiles and today's versions of greed and corruption.
TBird <----- never gets what she wants
Jette Goldie
TBird wrote in message <19991012153642...@ngol06.aol.com>...
> "John Biltz" <bilt...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> quite frankly I would rather watch
>>the Raven than season 1 of HL.
>
>That makes three of us.
>
>Are you there Jette?
Am I where? <g>
Yep, I enjoyed Raven. I found that the eps were actually very
*layered*, allowing you to find more and more each time you
rewatched. Little touches like the symmetry of Amanda and
Charlie's death scenes in "Sow shall ye reap"
Liz played the character *from the inside* - ie, she didn't
just read a script, she didn't just *know* Amanda, she
WAS Amanda. Amanda who was =not= always running
for help, planning a heist or being cheerful. Amanda who
had off days, who looked after her own neck. Amanda
with no Duncan MacLeod around.
Jette Goldie
jette....@u.genie.co.uk
HISTORICON 2001 - Setting the Standards for the Next Millennium
http://you.genie.co.uk/jette.goldie/
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/historicon
NChos55416
>(snip) It was also used to go back to
>the trouble with Tribbles. This was a very funny episode. One of the very
>best time travel shows ever done. Dax in the old Star Fleet uniform was
>great with her drooling over Spock, the different looking Klingons, the
>Temporal Police were funny,
>Deep Spaced Moose
Sorry??? I have to ask, what ep, what season, pretty
please, so I can make sure not to miss it !
Nathalie
(Just discovered what the quote *there's coffee in that nebula !*
refers to, and no wiser than S2 for DS9)
John Biltz
Jadzia, I am sure Tribbles were in the title somewhere.
Tribbled Moose
NChos55416 <nchos...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991012191834...@ngol04.aol.com...
> In article <7tvqr6$qi2$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "John wrote:
>
> >(snip) It was also used to go back to
> >the trouble with Tribbles. This was a very funny episode. One of the
very
> >best time travel shows ever done. Dax in the old Star Fleet uniform was
> >great with her drooling over Spock, the different looking Klingons, the
> >Temporal Police were funny,
>
> >Deep Spaced Moose
>
Ladeebkwrm
TBird wrote in message <19991012161653...@ngol05.aol.com>...
>TBird <----- never gets what she wants
Hey! You've got 25 Methos clones and *at least* one Jamie Fraser clone.
What more could you *possibly* want? Sheesh!
Peace,
Kristina (Some people are never happy)
In mourning for my D-Backs
John Biltz
>
> And the rules sucked, considering they were marketing to the US cash cow.
>
Well it was their rules. It works like this, If you have all the money you
need like the x files then you don't care about Canadian Content because
they do not need the money. If you are operating on a thin budget, then the
subsidies you get for having Canadian Content is often the difference
between a show or no show. The Canadian government in an attempt to keep
from having its entertainment industry destroyed or taken over by their
neighbors to the south. Instituted Canadian Content laws. This is also the
reason if you live in Canada you never see Season 1, it does not meet the
Canadian Content Rule so it makes it difficult to show it. Bob and Doug was
originally started as something that was only shown in Canada during the
Second City Show. They had those extra minutes up there so as a joke they
did Bob and Doug as a parady of Canadian Rednecks. This allowed them to
meet Canadian Content.
Not a Canadian Moose
> Didn't seem to be a problem with the X-Files, or any of the many other
> productions that are done in Canada. We're not talking set production,
> here.
>
> What's wrong with Bob and Doug MacKenzie?
> Where did I imply American writers were better? I complain that they
didn't
> allow US writers and you infer from that that I thought Canadian writers
are
> poor? Being an editor, you should know better than to read the wrong
things
> into what I write. I don't assume anything, except that people's
potential,
> whether its as a writer or whatever, is not predicated on their
nationality.
> I'm saying Davis/Panzer were selling this to an American audience and yet
at
> the same time were excluding participation from American writers,
especially
> peculiar since the concept was from an American writer. And yes, I know
it
> was Gaumont that required it, so maybe I am misplacing the blame.
>
>
John Biltz
I did not have them all like I said that was off the top of my head. So we
are up to 4 now. 5 would be the one where they get trapped in the past and
found a colony, then destroy the time stream by Odo sabotaging the
reenactment of the accident. That was another amazing episode. I thought
about that one for some time after I saw it. A deep and disturbing episode.
I am starting to think they had some pretty good time travel eps on DS9.
Temporal Moose
James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:_DTM3.781$uI3....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> What about "The Visitor", where Jake grows old while his father is
suspended
> in subspace? One of the best written and performed episodes of TV I have
> ever seen.
>
> James
>
> John Biltz wrote in message <7tvqr6$qi2$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
James Bishop
Raven. The fight scenes were poor and the stories less than engaging. It
did get a little better after they moved to Paris but not enough. And when
they recycled major actors like Philip Akin and Valentine Pelka they really
insulted my intelligence. That would be like bringing Patrick Stewart onto
Voyager to play another human character.
As I understand it, it was the French side of the production team that
demanded provisions barring American writers from working on scripts and
limiting the number of episodes American actors appeared in.
James
John Biltz wrote in message <7tvm18$k9k$2...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>An awful lot of us seem to use the HL store, so I would say for all its
>faults it was a good idea. I think you should have gave Raven a chance, I
>mean I could have gave up on HL after watching The Gathering and Freefall
>and justified the action quite easily. I thought Raven was a good show,
>certainly nothing to be ashamed of and quite frankly I would rather watch
>the Raven than season 1 of HL. There were 2 good episodes in season 1 BOB
>and The Hunters. There were several excellent Ravens. I thought it was
>Canada that restricted the appearance of American actors, are they running
>Canada now?
>
>James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:D_GM3.86$uI3....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
DonnaLetto
>>It's also interesting to note that Davis/Panzer have chased after the
>>American market so hard and at the same time, behind the scenes, have
>>discriminated against it, not allowing American writers to participate and
>>restricting the appearances of American actors. You of all people should
>>know that, Donna.
Wow, please feel free to come back and start this conversation again when you
have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Highlander was made by a French film studio and a Canadian production company.
Yes, the underlying copyright is owned by an American company, Davis Panzer,
but they didn't produce the television show or distribute the show -- or hire
the writers. They also had nothing to do with the marketing of the show -- or
the "going after the American market" as you call it -- that was Rysher
Entertainment, an American company that bought the rights to do just that from
the French and Canadian companies who made the show.
Highlander wasn't an American show. It was a Canadian/French show. Do you
rail at all shows that are Canadian or French for "restricting" American
actors? Do you rail at American shows for "restricting" French actors?
Oh, one more thing: I never worked for Davis Panzer Productions. OK, maybe a
little freelance for Davis Panzer Merchandising on a few ancilary merchandise
products like the Watcher CD, but certainly not in any capacity as a member of
the writing staff.
Next time, you might want to stop to check your facts before you put yourself
in a position to be embarrassed by them.
Donna
(knew the risks when she took the job)
James Bishop
ruthless wrote in message <7tvnea$vtk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>To be honest, I"m not exactly sure what "het"
>stands for....is it an abbreviation for heterosexual??
><I'm clueless>
>
>But you *do* remember the Dax storyline with the
>*other* female symbiont??
>
>ruthless<much preferred the Doctor in DS9><yum>
>
>In article <NUwM3.1515$tZ4....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
> "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Oh, I have to disagree. Jadzira Dax had a ....serenity... that,
>> >combined with a wicked sense of humour and a penchent
>> >for, well, just being *wicked*, that was incredibly attractive.
>> >
>> >Het girl, but she could have turned me ;-)
>> >
>> >Jette Goldie
>> >
>>
>> Oh! I'm having flashbacks to T-Bird's shower story!
>>
>>
>
James Bishop
visited Kirk and company on the original Enterprise. I think they also went
back in time on the station, too.
James
ruthless wrote in message <7tvmth$vdn$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
>> > >> James Bishop <james.b...@gte.net> wrote in message
>> > >> news:vt7M3.2101$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
>> > >> > You're right of course Ruthless, there are two good reasons to
>watch
>> > >Jeri
>> > >> > Ryan...(wink)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > ruthless wrote in message <7tqs2t$hho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> > >> > >you, all the men in my family, all the men at work,
>> > >> > >all the men at ....
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >ruthless<of *course* it's because she has an interesting
>> > >> > > part and can act><eg><but seriously, she's an excellent
>> > >> > > foil for Janeway>
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >In article <hb4M3.1861$Z7.6...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
>> > >> > > "James Bishop" <james.b...@gte.net> wrote:
>> > >> > >> Then they obviously knew what they were doing, because Seven
>of
>> > >Nine
>> > >> > >got me
>> > >> > >> watching it again!
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> James
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
James Bishop
in subspace? One of the best written and performed episodes of TV I have
ever seen.
James
John Biltz wrote in message <7tvqr6$qi2$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Claire Maier
: An awful lot of us seem to use the HL store, so I would say for all its
: faults it was a good idea. I think you should have gave Raven a chance, I
It was a very good idea. Just a really bad fufillment house.
: mean I could have gave up on HL after watching The Gathering and Freefall
: and justified the action quite easily. I thought Raven was a good show,
: certainly nothing to be ashamed of and quite frankly I would rather watch
Raven had its moments, but I have to admit that I stopped watching during
the repeats.
: > It's also interesting to note that Davis/Panzer have chased after the
: > American market so hard and at the same time, behind the scenes, have
: > discriminated against it, not allowing American writers to participate and
: > restricting the appearances of American actors. You of all people should
: > know that, Donna.
What Donna knows, that James obviously doesn't, is *why* Highlander
couldn't use American writers or many American actors, and it wasn't DPP's
choice, believe me. Highlander got government subsidies from the Canadian
and French governments to produce the shows. In exchange for getting
those subsidies (without which they probably couldn't afford to make
Highlander at all), they had to employ a certain number/percentage of that
country's citizens. It worked out to about 50% of the "creative" jobs for
each country (with Europeans counting as French once the European Union
labor rules came into effect). Now, if HL had just had to satisfy such
rules for one country, half of the people they used could have been from
any other country-- American, Australian, whathaveyou. But since they had
to satisfy *two* countries' content rules, whatever roles weren't required
to be French/European had to be used for Canadians to satisfy the Canadian
content, or vice versa. That left almost no jobs for non-French
(European), non-Americans, and what few there were were generally used for
actors (and a couple of important consultants, ie., uncredited writing
staff members). And for Raven, it was even tighter than for HL:TS because
they had an American lead. (I think that you could count the Americans
who worked on Raven on one hand-- EG, David A., Bill P., and Laura Brennan
(the script coordinator). Everyone else was either Canadian or European.)
DPP has no control over the labor laws and requirements for accepting
government arts' subsidies in France and Canada.
--
Claire Maier bioa...@emory.edu CLMaier (within AOL only)
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
Claire Maier
: I'm sure that DP would have been very happy if someone domestic had weighed in
: with bucks. I think, tho I'm not sure, that Gaumont would have had to been a
: part of the equation. (They own some HL rights somehow?) But if the other Money
: had not been Canadian, things could have been different.
Actually, in season 1, there *was* someone domestic with big bucks
(although Gaumont was involved, and so were Japanese and I think Italian
and German groups too, and possibly others). They used American writers
and actors then. They also had a bigger budget. But from season 2 on, it
was Gaumont in France and Filmline International in Canada that did the
producing and fronted the money.
: Perhaps you're not aware that Canada has very strict rules and regs about the
: citizenship of who works on entertanment projects, both in front and behind the
: camera?
And the EU too, at least when the government is contributing funds in
exchange for citizen content.
: You also seem to be implying that American tv writers would somehow have been
: better. Perhaps. But not neccessarily. All Canadian writers are not Bob and
: Doug Mackenzie, you know? In point of fact, Karen Harris and Jim Thorpe, altho
: they are Canadian citizens, have both lived in the US for quite a while. (Yes,
: we're nicer about that sort of thing than Canada.)
Umm... Karen Harris is actually British, I think.
: Also, the Highlander episode w/o anyone from HL (which I actually thought was
: one of the best of season six) wasn't some DP brainstorm--it was dictated by
: Adrian's availability, as was INDISCRESTIONS.
I thought "Two of Hearts" was an excellent episode. It didn't have Duncan
in it, but I felt it really captured the essence of what an immortal's
life would be like.
(And Indiscretions was good too. I've always enjoyed "The Joe and Methos
Show," even as far back as Finale part 1.)
James Bishop
GinjerB wrote in message <19991012134926...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>
><<Donna can do this better than me, and probably will--but wherever did you
get
>the idea that it was a decision of Davis/Panzer to exclude American writers
and
>actors?
>
>I was the Money that dictated that--HL was financed by Canada and France.
And
>the Money set the rules.
>
And the rules sucked, considering they were marketing to the US cash cow.
>I'm sure that DP would have been very happy if someone domestic had weighed
in
>with bucks. I think, tho I'm not sure, that Gaumont would have had to been
a
>part of the equation. (They own some HL rights somehow?) But if the other
Money
>had not been Canadian, things could have been different.
>
>Perhaps you're not aware that Canada has very strict rules and regs about
the
>citizenship of who works on entertanment projects, both in front and behind
the
>camera?
>
Didn't seem to be a problem with the X-Files, or any of the many other
productions that are done in Canada. We're not talking set production,
here.
>You also seem to be implying that American tv writers would somehow have
been
>better. Perhaps. But not neccessarily. All Canadian writers are not Bob and
>Doug Mackenzie, you know? In point of fact, Karen Harris and Jim Thorpe,
altho
>they are Canadian citizens, have both lived in the US for quite a while.
(Yes,
>we're nicer about that sort of thing than Canada.)
>
What's wrong with Bob and Doug MacKenzie?
Where did I imply American writers were better? I complain that they didn't
allow US writers and you infer from that that I thought Canadian writers are
poor? Being an editor, you should know better than to read the wrong things
into what I write. I don't assume anything, except that people's potential,
whether its as a writer or whatever, is not predicated on their nationality.
I'm saying Davis/Panzer were selling this to an American audience and yet at
the same time were excluding participation from American writers, especially
peculiar since the concept was from an American writer. And yes, I know it
was Gaumont that required it, so maybe I am misplacing the blame.
As for the writing on Highlander: The Series, I thought it was top-notch.
That's why I never missed an episode, even though it was an oddyssey to find
it.
>Also, the Highlander episode w/o anyone from HL (which I actually thought
was
>one of the best of season six) wasn't some DP brainstorm--it was dictated
by
>Adrian's availability, as was INDISCRESTIONS.
>
>
I didn't bother finishing that episode, when I sit down to see the
Highlander I expect to see the Highlander. Imagine sitting down to an
episode of Frazier and nobody that is a regular in the show is in it, only a
bunch of strangers. Well, it wouldn't be Frazier would it? If Adrian
wasn't available then use other regulars. If none of them are in the show
then you don't have a show, just a pitch for another series that was snuck
into the budget. I didn't complain about Indiscretions. It had Joe and
Methos. But after a while you realize you're getting jipped.
James
James Bishop
GinjerB wrote in message <19991012140434...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>
>So, again, and probably more briefly:
>
>The decision to "exclude" American writers and actors had naught to do with
DP.
>The Money made those rules--and the Money was Canadian and French. I
suspect
>that DP would have been extremely happy if domestic finanacing had
appeared.
>
>But it didn't --and they have very strict regs in Canada about the
citizenship
>of who works on entertainment projects, both in front of and behind the
>cameras.
>
>Plus which, you seem to be assuming that American writers and American
actors
>would somehow have been better. From which *I* can only assume that you
really
>don't watch a lot of American-made tv. <g>
>
There goes the assuming again! I assumed nothing. I don't assume. You
seem to be doing the assuming.
>Lastly, it wasn't any DP brainstorm that led to an epi w/o any of the
familiar
>faces. It was dictated by Adrian's availability, as was the lack of Duncan
in
>INDESCRETIONS.
>
If Adrian isn't on the show then you don't have a show. That episode was a
pitch for the next series that they snuck into the final season of
Highlander. You and I both know it. You can't have an episode of an
established show without the regular cast. It just doesn't happen.
Adrian's availibility should have been a factor in not doing the show.
>Okay, lastly plus one--RAVEN was a work-in-progress. It got better--a lot
>better. (IMHO) As many people have said, anyone who judged HL from the
first
>few epis and checked out would have been astounded to check back in later,
say
>in Season 5.
>
>GinjerB
>
>
I will not wait around five seasons for a show to get better. Gracen
couldn't carry the show. Her fighting was piss poor. She was obviously
afraid of the blades and it showed in how she held them and how she
maintained distance from her opponents. Her execution was poor as well.
She's a great actress, but she's playing a physical character, and adventure
character, and she has to be able to pull it off.
I actually defended the series at first to my girlfriend, who loved
Highlander the Series but hated Raven. But as things progressed, I was
forced to agree with her.
Again, as I said, my time is valuable, and I don't have enough of it to
waste on crap. How do you like it when you are forced to read some
atrocious manuscript? It's time you could have better spent, isn't it?
Maybe more to the point, you won't finish it, you'll put it down as soon as
you realize it sucks.
James
Claire Maier
: Okay, lastly plus one--RAVEN was a work-in-progress. It got better--a lot
: better. (IMHO) As many people have said, anyone who judged HL from the first
: few epis and checked out would have been astounded to check back in later, say
: in Season 5.
I would have to disagree with that. Most of the episodes I really
disliked came at the end of the Paris eps-- The Manipulator, the Ex-Files,
War and Peace. DOA was watchable but not great. My favorite eps are
actually Toronto ones-- "The Unknown Soldier," "Full Disclosure," and
"Passion Play."
James Bishop
As for the sequel, it's up in the air. They are having some legal problems.
BUCC9 wrote in message <19991012142123...@ng-cq1.aol.com>...
>ginjerb wrote:
>
>>All Canadian writers are not Bob and
>>Doug Mackenzie, you know?
>
James Bishop
DonnaLetto wrote in message
<19991013000725...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>>>James
>>>It's also interesting to note that Davis/Panzer have chased after the
>>>American market so hard and at the same time, behind the scenes, have
>>>discriminated against it, not allowing American writers to participate
and
>>>restricting the appearances of American actors. You of all people should
>>>know that, Donna.
>
you
>have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
>
>Highlander was made by a French film studio and a Canadian production
company.
>Yes, the underlying copyright is owned by an American company, Davis
Panzer,
>but they didn't produce the television show or distribute the show -- or
hire
>the writers. They also had nothing to do with the marketing of the show --
or
>the "going after the American market" as you call it -- that was Rysher
>Entertainment, an American company that bought the rights to do just that
from
>the French and Canadian companies who made the show.
>
Thanks for the correction. I would gladly have accepted it without your
pissy attitude.
>Highlander wasn't an American show. It was a Canadian/French show. Do you
>rail at all shows that are Canadian or French for "restricting" American
>actors? Do you rail at American shows for "restricting" French actors?
>
I rail at any form of discrimination. It is my belief that, "under the sky,
under the heavens, there is but one family". I don't believe in any form of
separative nonsense.
>Oh, one more thing: I never worked for Davis Panzer Productions. OK,
maybe a
>little freelance for Davis Panzer Merchandising on a few ancilary
merchandise
>products like the Watcher CD, but certainly not in any capacity as a member
of
>the writing staff.
>
>Next time, you might want to stop to check your facts before you put
yourself
>in a position to be embarrassed by them.
You seem to have an extremely hostile attitude.
>Donna
>(knew the risks when she took the job)
A quote from Maureen Russell's complete watcher's guide:
"I'm Donna Lettow, and this year, season six, my title is Associate Creative
Consultant, which are three words meaning, 'She's American and we can't tell
you what she really does.' The closest equivalent on an American network
show would probably be story editor. Only French and Canadian writers can
have their names on the scripts, to be what we call 'writers of note.'"
That's you saying it, not me.
James
James Bishop
Claire Maier wrote in message <7u1144$mko$1...@jet.cc.emory.edu>...
>John Biltz (bilt...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>: An awful lot of us seem to use the HL store, so I would say for all its
>: faults it was a good idea. I think you should have gave Raven a chance,
I
>
>It was a very good idea. Just a really bad fufillment house.
>
>: mean I could have gave up on HL after watching The Gathering and Freefall
>: and justified the action quite easily. I thought Raven was a good show,
>: certainly nothing to be ashamed of and quite frankly I would rather watch
>
>Raven had its moments, but I have to admit that I stopped watching during
>the repeats.
>
>: > American market so hard and at the same time, behind the scenes, have
>: > discriminated against it, not allowing American writers to participate
and
>: > restricting the appearances of American actors. You of all people
should
>: > know that, Donna.
>
>couldn't use American writers or many American actors, and it wasn't DPP's
>choice, believe me. Highlander got government subsidies from the Canadian
>and French governments to produce the shows. In exchange for getting
>those subsidies (without which they probably couldn't afford to make
>Highlander at all), they had to employ a certain number/percentage of that
>country's citizens. It worked out to about 50% of the "creative" jobs for
>each country (with Europeans counting as French once the European Union
>labor rules came into effect). Now, if HL had just had to satisfy such
>rules for one country, half of the people they used could have been from
>any other country-- American, Australian, whathaveyou. But since they had
>to satisfy *two* countries' content rules, whatever roles weren't required
>to be French/European had to be used for Canadians to satisfy the Canadian
>content, or vice versa. That left almost no jobs for non-French
>(European), non-Americans, and what few there were were generally used for
>actors (and a couple of important consultants, ie., uncredited writing
>staff members). And for Raven, it was even tighter than for HL:TS because
>they had an American lead. (I think that you could count the Americans
>who worked on Raven on one hand-- EG, David A., Bill P., and Laura Brennan
>(the script coordinator). Everyone else was either Canadian or European.)
>
>DPP has no control over the labor laws and requirements for accepting
>government arts' subsidies in France and Canada.
>
"Claireified" that for me, and I am a better informed person for that
information. It's all very clear to me now and I realize, in that part of
my argument, I had misplaced the blame on Davis Panzer when it was not their
fault. I do think, however, that Donna Lettow could definitely take a few
lessons from you in the courtesy department.
James (who still isn't letting Davis Panzer off the hook for Highlander II
and III).
Velia Tanner and Friends
>demanded provisions barring American writers from working on scripts and
>limiting the number of episodes American actors appeared in
It really doesn't have to do with anyone making demands or limits. The fact
is, Highlander was a French show, made by a French production company
(Gaumont), co-produced with a Canadian Company under Canadian governmernt
subsidy rules, which basically amounted to cash rebates for productions that
hired a certain number of Canadian nationals. Therefore, it is only natural
that the crews -- including actors and creatives -- were French and Canadian.
There seems to be a certain *illusion* that Highlander is an American show, or
was produced for American audiences, because it was filmed in English and aired
here first. But it was an international show, produced for an international
market. Can you imagine watching episodes of Lovejoy or Upstairs Downstairs or
BallyKissAngel or Monty Python's Flying Circus and complaining that Americans
aren't allowed to participate in those shows? I can't. There are plenty of
shows made in Hollywood, by US companies, with all-American casts and crews;
why begrudge other countries, with much smaller TV industries, a show produced
by their own citizens?
V.
Jette Goldie
James Bishop wrote in message ...
>
>DonnaLetto wrote in message
>My, your quite the diplomat, aren't you?
>
(Pot,kettle - dark shade of noir, Jimmy boy)
>
>>Highlander wasn't an American show. It was a Canadian/French show. Do
you
>>rail at all shows that are Canadian or French for "restricting" American
>>actors? Do you rail at American shows for "restricting" French actors?
>>
>I rail at any form of discrimination. It is my belief that, "under the
sky,
>under the heavens, there is but one family". I don't believe in any form
of
>separative nonsense.
Yeps, and I see a lot of French/British/German/Scottish actors on
US tv and movies.................about 0.0001% of the number who
try for work permits.
But then I suppose most American actors would be out of work -
notice how the few Europeans that slip through seem to outshine
them. Something to do with "training" on the stage?
RebeccaMW
>US tv and movies.................about 0.0001% of the number who
>try for work permits.
>
>But then I suppose most American actors would be out of work -
>notice how the few Europeans that slip through seem to outshine
>them. Something to do with "training" on the stage?
>
>Jette Goldie
Jette,
This is not the first time that you have stated that Americans are deficient to
Europeans. Here we go again. Turns out that you do not believe that our
actors are as well trained as the Europeans. And since we are usually
discussing production in English, I presume that you are emphasizing the
talents of the stage trained actors of the UK as opposed to the lightweight,
know nothing North Americans from Hollywood.
Well, one thing that I did learn in school that doesn't seem to have been
taught to you, is that rampant nationalism leads to prejudice. American
writers are not better than the Canadians; the French production people are not
by their very nature better than any other nationality. In fact nationality
has nothing to do with it. Individuals do. Only Individuals. Down this road
lies racism and wars. But perhaps that is an American prejudice, we tend to
think of Europeans as war mongering groups of people with little ethnic
differences, repeatedly tearing apart the continent in armed conflict over
issues such as which,
barely identifiable group is better than the other.
So no, I do not believe that there is any systematic effort under way to keep
the clearly superior European actors out of American TV and I resent your
baseless accusations. American actors end up in American productions because
they are here, same for writers. Some countries, Such as Canada and France
have government subsidies for their entertainment industries that require
participation by their citizens. No conspiracy, just a little economic
protectionism. Nothing to start a war over.
Rebecca
Ph.D in Mooseology (you may call me Doctor)
Legacy 2000
Washington D.C. May 26-29, 2000
http://www.legacycon.org
John Biltz
However if an actor has had some success in their native land then it is
pretty easy to come over here and work. As a result we tend to get the
cream of the crop. The fact is that we pay better so it is quite an
incentive to come over here. Personally I don't see Scot or English actors
out shining Americans. There are some good ones, but I would put Hanks,
Dinero, Pacino, or Streep against anyone. This may come as a surprise but
we do actually have stage in America as well, the zenith being this place
called Broadway. A number of them have done very well in London. I have
also heard that a number of our poorly illuminated TV shows are very popular
over there.
Jette Goldie <bosslad...@mydeja.com> wrote in message
news:7u18u6$o1c$1...@supernews.com...
>
> James Bishop wrote in message ...
> >
> >DonnaLetto wrote in message
>
> >My, your quite the diplomat, aren't you?
> >
>
> (Pot,kettle - dark shade of noir, Jimmy boy)
>
>
> >
> >>Highlander wasn't an American show. It was a Canadian/French show. Do
> you
> >>rail at all shows that are Canadian or French for "restricting" American
> >>actors? Do you rail at American shows for "restricting" French actors?
> >>
> >I rail at any form of discrimination. It is my belief that, "under the
> sky,
> >under the heavens, there is but one family". I don't believe in any form
> of
> >separative nonsense.
>
> Yeps, and I see a lot of French/British/German/Scottish actors on
> US tv and movies.................about 0.0001% of the number who
> try for work permits.
>
> But then I suppose most American actors would be out of work -
> notice how the few Europeans that slip through seem to outshine
> them. Something to do with "training" on the stage?
>
> Jette Goldie
>
Jerri
>snipping for my own nefarious purposes
> Can you imagine watching episodes of Lovejoy
> or Upstairs Downstairs or BallyKissAngel or
> Monty Python's Flying Circus and complaining
> that Americans aren't allowed to participate in those shows?
Tossing out the political ramifications, I think adding a Lovejoy element
to Highlander would have been great. Lovejoy was an antiques dealer. Duncan
was an antiques dealer. Lovejoy was a smartass who knew antiques like
nobody's business. Duncan is built like a brick outhouse. Lovejoy is built
like ... well ... he's stocky and not at all athletic, but quite handsome
in his own way. A knockout in non-Duncan terms. I dare say that Lovejoy
would give Duncan a run for his money in the Race for the Ladies.
Jerri <loves Lovejoy>
ruthless
Yup, DS9 was the superior show.....
ruthless<Kira is my role model>
In article <7u16jh$k25$3...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
James Bishop
Velia Tanner and Friends wrote in message
<19991013022356...@ng-ck1.aol.com>...
>>As I understand it, it was the French side of the production team that
>>demanded provisions barring American writers from working on scripts and
>>limiting the number of episodes American actors appeared in
>
>It really doesn't have to do with anyone making demands or limits. The
fact
>is, Highlander was a French show, made by a French production company
>(Gaumont), co-produced with a Canadian Company under Canadian governmernt
>subsidy rules, which basically amounted to cash rebates for productions
that
>hired a certain number of Canadian nationals. Therefore, it is only
natural
>that the crews -- including actors and creatives -- were French and
Canadian.
>
>There seems to be a certain *illusion* that Highlander is an American show,
or
>was produced for American audiences, because it was filmed in English and
aired
>here first. But it was an international show, produced for an
international
>market.
The show is chasing after the American market, where the big money is. The
fact that it is international is secondary. The fact that Raven lost its
distribution in the US is what killed that show. If it's not the US market
Davis Panzer are looking at, why doesn't the Highlander Store have a
European branch? Because they are chasing the American dollar.
Can you imagine watching episodes of Lovejoy or Upstairs Downstairs or
>BallyKissAngel or Monty Python's Flying Circus and complaining that
Americans
>aren't allowed to participate in those shows? I can't. There are plenty
of
>shows made in Hollywood, by US companies, with all-American casts and
crews;
>why begrudge other countries, with much smaller TV industries, a show
produced
>by their own citizens?
>
Those shows weren't even made for an American audience in the first place.
The fact that we see them at all over here is only thanks to PBS 5 to 10
years after they were made.
James Bishop
Jette Goldie wrote in message <7u18u6$o1c$1...@supernews.com>...
>
>James Bishop wrote in message ...
>>
>>DonnaLetto wrote in message
>
>>My, your quite the diplomat, aren't you?
>>
>
>(Pot,kettle - dark shade of noir, Jimmy boy)
>
>
>>
>>>Highlander wasn't an American show. It was a Canadian/French show. Do
>you
>>>rail at all shows that are Canadian or French for "restricting" American
>>>actors? Do you rail at American shows for "restricting" French actors?
>>>
>>I rail at any form of discrimination. It is my belief that, "under the
>sky,
>>under the heavens, there is but one family". I don't believe in any form
>of
>>separative nonsense.
>
>Yeps, and I see a lot of French/British/German/Scottish actors on
>US tv and movies.................about 0.0001% of the number who
>try for work permits.
>
And that sucks, too. For me, I like to see a little cosmopolitan variety.
That's one of the reasons I Liked Highlander, we got to see some great
European actors and locations. If it had been up to me, they would have
stayed in Paris for the entire series. We see enough of the US in other TV
shows.
>But then I suppose most American actors would be out of work -
>notice how the few Europeans that slip through seem to outshine
>them. Something to do with "training" on the stage?
>
Most American actors don't get stage training. The classically trained
actor isn't a pre-requisite of Hollywood, and so when someone like an
Anthony Hopkins comes along they really steal the scenes from many of these
less-experienced guys. Like you said, when they get the opportunity.
James
James Bishop
John Biltz wrote in message <7u1j4q$7jh$2...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>We put limits out there to. In the way of green cards and work permits.
>However if an actor has had some success in their native land then it is
>pretty easy to come over here and work. As a result we tend to get the
>cream of the crop. The fact is that we pay better so it is quite an
>incentive to come over here. Personally I don't see Scot or English actors
>out shining Americans. There are some good ones, but I would put Hanks,
>Dinero, Pacino, or Streep against anyone. This may come as a surprise but
>we do actually have stage in America as well, the zenith being this place
>called Broadway. A number of them have done very well in London. I have
>also heard that a number of our poorly illuminated TV shows are very
popular
>over there.
>
Excellent points, John. We do have plenty of out of work actors over here,
so it wouldn't make sense to use another country's out of work actors. You
are a product and for Hollywood to invest in you, you have to be something
they can sell. That's why John says that Hollywood does go after the
European actors that have made a big splash in their countries, because they
have something that can sell, i.e. Sean Connery, Catherine Zeta Jones, Sir
Anthony Hopkins, Patrick Stewart, Sir Ian McKellan, Liam Neeson, etc. all.
They can sell these people. And Americans embrace them with great
affection, so quit imposing your percieved xenophobia on us. The fact is
that, for the most part, we are greatly interested in Europe and are
bothered by this European elitism. Why European nations are so resentful of
the US is beyond me, besides the political interference, of course.
James
James
Susan Stansfield
In article <19991011152923...@ngol02.aol.com>,
sixt4...@aol.comedancing wrote:
<<Oh Maggie! You're breaking my heart - you are! Because I'm right there with
you! I usually vote and then run away for several hours until it's all over.
And I know why I didn't watch Season 5 - I could never find it! It kept
hopping around and I never saw OMTM. It was driving me insane.
TBird <----- also feeling Eeyore-ish <---- where's my tail?
>>
That reminds me of what happened to me. I'd been waiting for months for "One
Minute to Midnight", but the station that showed Highlander had switched the
show's time slot. I didn't realize this until it was too late and missed the
episode. Good thing I was lucky enough to catch it on a rerun.
Susan
ruthless
ruthless<not a hoser><g>
In article <19991012142123...@ng-cq1.aol.com>,
bu...@aol.com (BUCC9) wrote:
> ginjerb wrote:
>
> >All Canadian writers are not Bob and
> >Doug Mackenzie, you know?
>
> I *love* the Mackenzie brothers...Strange Brew is one of my all time
favorite
> movies. Perhaps that doesn't say much for my taste (others on the
list include
> Rob Roy and Finnigan's Rainbow -- eccletic to say the least), but
well, I'll
> just have to live with it.
>
> Heard somewhere (was it here?) that they might be doing a Strange Brew
2!
>
> ...lisa<can't wait><hosed to the max>
>
--
ruthless
Click on their Star Trek DS9 stuff.
You should be able to find the trouble with tribbles
one...I think it's called Trials and Tribblations.
It's one of the tall time best Deep Space Nine
episodes ever. Certainly on anyone's Top 10
list. To enjoy it the most, you might try to
get ahold of a copy of the original
"The Trouble with Tribbles"
just to enjoy how well it's done.
ruthless<loved that episode>
In article <19991012191834...@ngol04.aol.com>,
nchos...@aol.com (NChos55416) wrote:
> In article <7tvqr6$qi2$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "John wrote:
>
> >(snip) It was also used to go back to
> >the trouble with Tribbles. This was a very funny episode. One of
the very
> >best time travel shows ever done. Dax in the old Star Fleet uniform
was
> >great with her drooling over Spock, the different looking Klingons,
the
> >Temporal Police were funny,
>
> >Deep Spaced Moose
>
> Sorry??? I have to ask, what ep, what season, pretty
> please, so I can make sure not to miss it !
>
> Nathalie
> (Just discovered what the quote *there's coffee in that nebula !*
> refers to, and no wiser than S2 for DS9)
DonnaLetto
>productions that are done in Canada.
Point of order:
"X-Files" is an American show that happened to film in Canada. It was a not a
Canadian show. There's a difference.
Donna
(who put "courtesy" back into the box when someone decided to invoke my
personal life to try to make his ill-gotten argument)
DonnaLetto
Except for the part about assuming that you understood how the show worked, how
the show was financed, what DPP's evil agenda is, and what my relationship with
it all was.
Not to mention the assumption that I would appreciate your indignity on my
behalf (and that of other American writers) at the "injustice" of the
Highlander writing situation.
Donna
DonnaLetto
>
>"I'm Donna Lettow, and this year, season six, my title is Associate Creative
>Consultant, which are three words meaning, 'She's American and we can't
>tell
>you what she really does.' The closest equivalent on an American network
>show would probably be story editor. Only French and Canadian writers can
>have their names on the scripts, to be what we call 'writers of note.'"
>
>That's you saying it, not me.
And that's you and your personal prejudices reading it as a rail against the
system. What I gave Maureen was a pure statement of the facts, the same
statement I've given at numerous conventions. Believe me, if I'd been as
morally "offended" by the situation as you'd seem to like to believe I was, I
wouldn't have stayed for 4 years. No one had me chained to the desk.
Highlander was not a sweatshop for illegal immigrants. <g>
And you're probably the last person I would need to "rescue" me or come to my
"defense."
As I said:
>>(knew the risks when she took the job)
Donna
(making a note for the future that only James is allowed to be undiplomatic and
pissy on ATH -- forgive my ignorance, I'm still learning the rules here)