Highlander Character Seminar: Heather MacLeod
Shomeret
origin is unknown to us. The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal. From this we
can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if not
already married. Otherwise we would probably have seen Connor's mother in that
scene. When Connor is sent into exile due to the fear of the people of
Glenfinnan, Heather accompanies him. They would have married at that point, if
they hadn't married before. When the Kurgan arrives, looking for Connor,
Ramirez tells Heather to leave. She elects to stay, and ends up being raped by
the Kurgan after the death of Ramirez. We don't know when Connor returned, but
it must have been a long enough interval for Heather to be able to conceal from
Connor that she'd been raped. Connor stayed with Heather until her death, and
she remained silent about the rape. She didn't even reveal it on her death
bed. Her one regret was that she couldn't bear Connor's children. She asks
him to light a candle for her every year on her birthday. Connor promises to
do this in her memory. Let us pause for a moment of silence in honor of this
extraordinary woman before we proceed.
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Questions For Further Study
1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor have
considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this customary, or
was it a personal token of her love?
3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon, but
Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in demons?
Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
about Connor?
4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of other mortals
in relationships with immortals.
5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for Connor to
warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape all alone?
Evaluate her strength of character.
7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to Heather, and
if so how would Heather have reacted?
9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they couldn't
be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game during his
marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her or
use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do you think
she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus the
benefits. Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If Connor did
fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
I have had a very interesting time really looking at Heather as a character. I
hope you will too.
Professor Shomeret
Claire Maier
: There is much about Bonny Heather that remains a mystery. Even her clan of
: origin is unknown to us. The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
: off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal. From this we
No, different girfriend. That was Kate, who later rejected Connor when he
recovered from the Kurgan's attack.
: can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if not
: already married. Otherwise we would probably have seen Connor's mother in that
: scene. When Connor is sent into exile due to the fear of the people of
: Glenfinnan, Heather accompanies him. They would have married at that point, if
We first see Heather with Connor 5 years after Connor's exile.
: 3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon, but
: Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in demons?
: Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
: about Connor?
She didn't know him then.
: 9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they couldn't
: be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game during his
: marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her or
: use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do you think
: she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus the
: benefits. Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
As far as we know, Heather never saw any immies other than Connor,
Ramirez, and the Kurgan. There were a lot fewer immies in the HL1
universe.
--
Claire Maier, Ph.D. bioa...@emory.edu CLMaier (within AOL only)
To be different is not necessarily to be ugly;
to have a different idea is not necessarily to be wrong.
The worst possible thing is for all of us to begin
to look and act and think alike.
-- Gene Roddenberry
First Fallen
>origin is unknown to us. The first time we see Heather, she is seeing
Connor
>off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal. From this
we
>can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if not
>already married. Otherwise we would probably have seen Connor's mother in
that
>scene. When Connor is sent into exile due to the fear of the people of
>Glenfinnan, Heather accompanies him.
Actually....no. The woman who gave Connor the flowers before he went to
battle, and who asked Angus and Dugal to make sure Connor came back in one
piece was Kate. It was Kate who cried as Connor died, and it was she who
denounced him as a demon, calling for him to be burned after he came back to
life. Connor met Heather after he had been banished from Glenfinnan.
> Questions For Further Study
>
>1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor
have
>considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
I can't remember off hand if this is in the the script (too tired to check)
but according the novelization she is Heather McDonald.
>2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this
customary, or
>was it a personal token of her love?
Kate actually...probably a token of love
>3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon,
but
>Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in
demons?
>Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
>about Connor?
Heather probably didn't know about it at first.
Dace
ahhh misconceptions.. it's good to see other people can make mistakes :)
"First Fallen" <no...@nope.com> wrote in message
news:39e05...@news.cadvision.com...
> >There is much about Bonny Heather that remains a mystery. Even her clan
of
> >origin is unknown to us. The first time we see Heather, she is seeing
> Connor
> >off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal. From this
> we
> >can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if not
> >already married. Otherwise we would probably have seen Connor's mother
in
> that
> >scene. When Connor is sent into exile due to the fear of the people of
> >Glenfinnan, Heather accompanies him.
>
> battle, and who asked Angus and Dugal to make sure Connor came back in one
> piece was Kate. It was Kate who cried as Connor died, and it was she who
> denounced him as a demon, calling for him to be burned after he came back
to
> life. Connor met Heather after he had been banished from Glenfinnan.
>
>
> >
> >1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor
> have
> >considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
>
>
check)
> but according the novelization she is Heather McDonald.
>
> customary, or
> >was it a personal token of her love?
>
>
> but
> >Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in
> demons?
> >Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she
believe
> >about Connor?
>
>
Jette Goldie
Shomeret <shom...@aol.com> wrote
> Questions For Further Study
>
> 1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor
have
> considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
>
LOL - the MacLeods are a large and well spread clan. No, marrying another
MacLeod would not have been consanguinuity - so long as she wasn't closer
than his first cousin.
> 2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this
customary, or
> was it a personal token of her love?
>
Not customary - unless the flowers were the clan's battle emblem (tartans
don't mean squat on the battlefield - there were NO clan tartans at that
point in time, so warriors recognised their fellow clansmen by their
emblem - a flower, a sprig of greenery, a feather)
> 3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon,
but
> Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in
demons?
> Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she
believe
> about Connor?
>
After the Kurgan she probably believed in demons - she just knew that
Connor wasn't one.
> 4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of other
mortals
> in relationships with immortals.
>
> 5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for
Connor to
> warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
>
> 6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape all
alone?
> Evaluate her strength of character.
>
She was a Highland woman. They do what has to be done. Always
have always will do, from burying their only child to fighting off the
raiders.
> 7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
>
What good would it have done? Connor would very likely have tried
to avenge her - and since the Kurgan has killed his teacher Ramirez
she had good reason to think that this was a bad idea.
--
Jette Goldie
boss...@scotlandmail.com
waylayer
Shomeret <shom...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001008005601...@ng-ft1.aol.com...
> There is much about Bonny Heather that remains a mystery. Even her clan
of
> origin is unknown to us. The first time we see Heather, she is seeing
Connor
> off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal.
No offense to you Shomeret, BUT that is NOT the lovely Heather, that is the
hag Kate. Methinks you should watch the movies again doing the seminars, as
you also botched some information in your Connor seminar.
-----------
waylayer
Jim
The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor off before the
battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal. From this we can infer
that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if not already
married.
Funny, I must have a different copy of Highlander 1, because I don't
see Heather anywhere until after Connor is bannished. The woman seeing
him off was the same one who theorized he was "in league with Lucifer"
after he healed.
RCF23
Right?
RCF
Long Live Connor
Eance
shom...@aol.com (Shomeret) wrote:
>
>
> 1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would
Connor have
> considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
>
more than the 33 needed to keep the genes diverese.
> 2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this
customary, or
> was it a personal token of her love?
Favours and tokens for good luck and love are still given today. I`ll
say a bit of both.
>
> 3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was
demon, but
> Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in
demons?
Demons, elves, fairies and sprites probably. Life`s a kind of magic.
> Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she
believe
> about Connor?
She believed he loved her.
>
> 4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of
other mortals
> in relationships with immortals.
She was living for the day for the most part, regretted not having his
babies and getting wrinkley but oil of ulay wasn`t available.
I think she handled it just as well as Tessa from what we saw and way
better than Anne.
>
> 5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for
Connor to
> warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her
mind?
Not alot but panic.
>
> 6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape
all alone?
> Evaluate her strength of character.
Are you sure there wasn`t a team of watchers hiding behind that grassy
knoll?
Was Heather a watcher?
She got on with it, she didn`t have the luxury to do otherwise.
>
> 7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
It would have really peed him off, being the hero he would have had to
seek vengance, she would have been all on her own on that mountain and
> he might not have come back.
Maybe she thought Kurgan could have got her pregnant?
> 8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to
Heather, and
> if so how would Heather have reacted?
I seriously doubt any locals would have confided a child to an outcast.
In such a community I imagine child care would have been much more of a
village effort anyway so the need for *adoption* wouldn`t have been
great. No he didn`t attempt to adopt.
I don`t know if Heather wanted Connors baby or just any baby (see above)
>
> 9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they
couldn't
> be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game
during his
> marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack
her or
> use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do
you think
> she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor
versus the
> benefits.
I reckon life was pretty quiet on that mountain, Ramirez and the
Kurgan were the adveture of a lifetime.
Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
>
Life would have been easier in a village, Heather didn`t know what she
was letting herself into with Connor but they were happy in the bits we
saw.
> 10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If
Connor did
> fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
Yeah.
>
> I have had a very interesting time really looking at Heather as a
character. I
> hope you will too.
>
> Professor Shomeret
> E
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
TBird
> The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
>off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal.
THIS IS NOT Heather.
Someone may already have watched and corrected this....
Mimi and I watched...the woman who gave him the flowers is the same one who
screams for him to be burned. Same dress and everything.
He meets Heather somewhere else after he leaves Glenfinnan.
TBird <----- okay - now that that is solved.....on to the rest of the lecture.
~
One of the Four Horsewomen of the ATH Gutter
~
Inspired Lunatic Ninja Cheerleader Trophy Girl
~ ~ ~
No matter who we think we are
Everybody
Gets a chance to be
Nothing.
~ Bruce Cockburn
icq # 63568829
Ski7
>1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor have
>considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
No - I was not a MacLeod....I was a Murphy.
>2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this customary,
>or
>was it a personal token of her love?
That wasn't me - it was that horrible bar wench who made such a scene at his
death bed and then called for him to be burned at the stake!!!
>3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon, but
>Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in demons?
>Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
>about Connor?
I was in love with him....I didn't care what anyone else said about him.
>4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of other
>mortals
>in relationships with immortals.
Unconditional love. If you love somebody you love them.
>5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for Connor to
>warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
I wasn't going to leave my home with Connor.
I believed Connor told me he'd be back...so I stayed.
>6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape all
alone?
>Evaluate her strength of character.
What happened happened. You think that was bad...you should have seen my life
before I had the safety and love of Connor. Taking care of Ramirez was just
something that had to be done.
>7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
Because I loved Connor.
>8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to Heather,
and if so how would Heather have reacted?
Our love was pure and complete, we didn't need children....we had each other.
And besides that, the adoption agency was too far away.
>9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they
>couldn't
>be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game during
>his
>marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her or
>use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do you
>think
>she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus
>the
>benefits. Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
There's no such thing as happier or happiest. I was happy. Happy is happy.
My life was complete. We lived far from other concerns.
>10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If Connor did
>fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
Every love is different. Connor's love for me would not have been effected by
a new love. It's not the same love. If he fell in love again it would be for
other reasons and other things.
Heather (reincarnated) (AKA Mimi) (I find it hard to talk about this now
that he's gone.)
<this sig for rent>
Susan Stansfield
There was no mention of Heather's origins in the movie, but I'm sure she wasn't
a MacLeod.
>2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this customary,
>or
>was it a personal token of her love?
As others have pointed out, that was Kate, not Heather. (Don't feel too bad,
Shomeret. I used to thimk that was Heather too. It wasn't until last week,
when I watched the movie again to prepare for the Connor seminar, that I
realized my mistake!) As for the flowers, I think they were a personal token
of her love.
>3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon,
>but
>Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in demons?
>Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
>about Connor?
Heather didn't know Connor when he was banished. She saw Ramirez train Connor,
so I assume she knew all about Immortals. She had no reason to believe that
Connor was a demon.
>4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of other
>mortals
>in relationships with immortals.
I think the best comparison would be Duncan and Tessa. In both cases, the
mortal woman accepted the immortal man's immortality. Both women were very
loyal to the men they loved and chose to spend the rest of their lives with
them.
>5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for Connor
>to
>warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
I think Heather was terrified. As for warning Connor, who knew where he was?
He could have been hundreds of miles away. The question I always have when I
see this scene is, why didn't she run?
>6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape all
>alone?
>Evaluate her strength of character.
As far as I can see, she dealt with it rather well.
>7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
It could be that she was ashamed; being raped probably carried more of a stigma
back then. More likely, she was afraid that if Connor knew, he would go after
Kurgan and risk getting himself killed.
>8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to Heather,
>and
>if so how would Heather have reacted?
I don't see any evidence that they tried to adopt children. But if Connor had
tried to, I'm sure Heather would have been willing.
>9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they couldn't
>be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game during
>his
>marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her
>or
>use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do you
>think
>she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus
>the
>benefits. Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
I suspect Connor stayed out of the Game while he was married to Heather, much
like Duncan stayed out of the Game while he was with Tessa. I don't know if
Heather's life would have been happier if she'd married a mortal, but it
probably would have been a bit easier.
>10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If Connor
>did
>fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
I think so.
>I have had a very interesting time really looking at Heather as a character.
> I
>hope you will too.
>
> Professor Shomeret
I did. :-)
Susan
TBird
>
>1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor have
>considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
I don't think we ever know this.....
I always wonder how Connor found Heather.... (guess I'll have to ask Mimi)
>2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this customary,
>or was it a personal token of her love?
This wasn't Heather. This was the witch who wanted him burned at the stake.
Talk about FICKLE!
>3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was demon, but
>Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in demons?
>Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she believe
>about Connor?
I think the love Heather had for Connor, and his for her, transcended
everything else. Nothing else mattered. They lived away from everyone else,
they only had each other, and they didn't care about anything else. IMO.
>4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of other
>mortals
>in relationships with immortals.
She didn't seem to ever have questioned it. Until she was on her deathbed, and
then it was only to wonder why he had stayed with her. I can only imagine that
she felt blessed to be loved and cared for by a man who was always able to take
care of her.
>5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for Connor
>to
>warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
This one baffles me. The only thing I can think is that this was the only Home
she knew, so running into the great unknown didn't seem to be anymore of a
solution than staying and facing the unknown of the Kurgan.
>6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape all
>alone?
>Evaluate her strength of character.
This is the same woman who butched meat for her dinner table, who did all the
hard work that her life required. She dealt with it as she dealt with
everything else, because it had to be dealt with. She couldn't call Acme
Funeral Home and have them cart Ramirez away.
I wonder why the Watchers didn't approach her. ;-)
>7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
Because she had strength of character. Telling him would have caused them both
pain. She loved him, and she couldn't do that to him. He gave her so
much...she didn't want to give him the agony of "Look what happened to me when
you were gone!"
>8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to Heather,
>and
>if so how would Heather have reacted?
Was there adoption back then?
Foundlings....foundling homes....
But I'm gonna guess that When Connor told Heather he couldn't have children she
was satisfied to have Connor.
>9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they
>couldn't
>be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game during
>his
>marriage to Heather? If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her or
>use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do you
>think
>she would have responded? Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus
>the
>benefits. Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
Wow. i don't think I want to speculate about this. I don't think Heather did
either.
>10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If Connor did
>fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
Why not?
She loved him with all her heart and she knew she would always be in his. Why
would she not want him to find happiness again?
TBird <---- IMO
Jette Goldie
TBird <sixt4...@aol.comedancing> wrote
> >8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to
Heather,
> >and
> >if so how would Heather have reacted?
>
> Foundlings....foundling homes....
> But I'm gonna guess that When Connor told Heather he couldn't have
children she
> was satisfied to have Connor.
Yes there was adoption back then. It could be as informal as picking
an abandoned child up and taking him home or it could be very formal
where you went to the church and law and made the child "the fruit of
your loins".
That's what that scene in HL:E was, btw- they were not asking
Connor's mother to admit that he was a foundling - they were
asking her to repudiate him from the kith and kin, cast him out
of the Clan.
--
Jette
jette...@thefreeinternet.co.uk
http://members.tripod.com/~bosslady/fanfic.html
Jette Goldie
Ski7 <mimi...@aol.comjackpot> wrote in message
news:20001009095032...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> >
> >1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would Connor
have
> >considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
>
Uh - I never noticed that Heather was Irish. <g>
(Murphy is an Irish name and didn't become a common one in
mainland Scotland until the 19th C)
--
Jette Goldie
boss...@scotlandmail.com
First Fallen
>THIS IS NOT Heather.
>Someone may already have watched and corrected this....
>Mimi and I watched...the woman who gave him the flowers is the same one who
>screams for him to be burned. Same dress and everything.
>
>He meets Heather somewhere else after he leaves Glenfinnan.
>
>TBird <----- okay - now that that is solved.....on to the rest of the
lecture.
RCF23
it.
RCF
Long Live Connor
Shomeret
example of me seeing what I wanted to see.,<g> I didn't want the pre-immortal
Connor to have had a different love other than Heather, so I didn't see it.
Interesting. Learn something all the time.
Shomeret
master...@my-deja.com
shom...@aol.com (Shomeret) wrote:
> There is much about Bonny Heather that remains a mystery. Even her
clan of
> origin is unknown to us.
Her maiden name was McDonald.
The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
> off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal.
That was Kate, not Heather. (No, not the same Kate that became Mrs.
Duncan MacLeod in Endgame.) He didn't meet Heather until after he was
driven from Glenfinnan. Kate was the one who said he was in league
with Lucifer, and wanted him burned at the stake.
From this we
> can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if
not
> already married.
I think Connor and Kate were married, but I'm not sure, so don't quote
me on it.
Otherwise we would probably have seen Connor's mother in that
> scene.
We make up for it when Connor tries to save his mom in Endgame.
When Connor is sent into exile due to the fear of the people of
> Glenfinnan, Heather accompanies him.
See above. They met after Connor left Glenfinnan. After Connor freed
himself from that ox yolk, he happened upon a farm owned by Heather's
father. Connor is put to work chopping wood, ... but it is made clear
in the novel that Heather had eyes for Connor. Connor became friends
with Heather's father and married Heather a few years later. Ramirez
didn't show up until 1541.
They would have married at that point, if
> they hadn't married before. When the Kurgan arrives, looking for
Connor,
> Ramirez tells Heather to leave. She elects to stay, and ends up
being raped by
> the Kurgan after the death of Ramirez.
I think it was more she was petrified with fear. You'd be scared too
if a seven foot monster with a broadsword smashes your front door in
and cuts your kitchen table in half with one swing. The novel goes
into more detail of Kurgan raping Heather, but I shudder to think what
he would have done if he knew she belonged to Connor, not Ramirez.
We don't know when Connor returned, but
> it must have been a long enough interval for Heather to be able to
conceal from
> Connor that she'd been raped.
It was several hours later when Connor returned from his hunting
expedition, long enough time for Heather to clean herself up after the
Kurgan's "invasion" of her, and to put Ramirez back together. She put
his head back on top of his neck.
Connor stayed with Heather until her death, and
> she remained silent about the rape.
In the book, Connor was glad that Heather was OK, and said, more or
less, if the Kurgan had done anything to her, he would have gone after
him, but Heather insisted that the Kurgan didn't violate her.
She didn't even reveal it on her death
> bed. Her one regret was that she couldn't bear Connor's children.
Connor knew he couldn't give her children, and may have told her. In
the novel, Ramirez told Heather what he and Connor were, and told her
that he tried to get Connor to leave her, but that Connor wanted to
stay with her.
She asks
> him to light a candle for her every year on her birthday. Connor
promises to
> do this in her memory. Let us pause for a moment of silence in honor
of this
> extraordinary woman before we proceed.
Please bow your heads now.
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> ~
> Questions For Further
Study
>
> 1) What was Heather's clan of origin? Was she a MacLeod, or would
Connor have
> considered marriage to a MacLeod consanguinuity?
As stated before, in the novel, she was a McDonald. Since Connor was
involved with Kate, who appeared to be of the Clan MacLeod, I don't
think he would have considered in consanguinuity.
>
> 2)Heather gave Connor flowers as he went off to battle. Was this
customary, or
> was it a personal token of her love?
>
That was Kate, and I think it was a token of her love. Oh, how quickly
do things change when he doesn't die from being a human shish kebob.
> 3)Everyone else in Glenfinnan apparently believed that Connor was
demon, but
> Heather never wavered in her faith in Connor. Didn't she believe in
demons?
She wasn't there. But in the book, it was made clear that her father
wouldn't have accepted him if he knew that Connor had been driven from
Glenfinnan for being a demon.
> Since even Connor didn't know what he was at the time, what did she
believe
> about Connor?
>
See above.
> 4) Compare Heather's reaction to Connor's immortality to that of
other mortals
> in relationships with immortals.
>
As far as I know, Heather never saw Connor bounce back from being hurt
or "killed". She did see him not age in fifty years, but Ramirez told
her that would happen, so I don't think it was a complete shock.
> 5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for
Connor to
> warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her
mind?
Probably something similar to what was going through Richie's mind when
Duncan came charging at him near the end of "Archangel".
>
> 6)How did Heather deal with burying Ramirez and recovering from rape
all alone?
She didn't bury Ramirez. She just put his head back on his neck and
waited for Connor to return. She probably did a lot of crying during
this time alone, wondering what she was going to tell Connor.
> Evaluate her strength of character.
>
> 7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
In the novel, Connor said he'd go after the Kurgan if he had harmed
her. She probably thought he'd get killed if he faced the Kurgan
(remember what he did to Ramirez), and kept quiet to protect him.
>
> 8)Did Connor ever attempt to adopt children during his marriage to
Heather, and
> if so how would Heather have reacted?
I don't know if adoption was that big of a thing back in the 1500's.
In the novel, Connor and Heather seemed to live a very quiet life
together. The opportunity may not have presented itself. One has to
wonder what life would have been like if Rachel had been born 400 years
earlier, and wound up in Connor's life then instead of WW2.
>
> 9)In HL:TS Duncan advised Richie against having a family because they
couldn't
> be protected against other immortals. Was Connor active in the Game
during his
> marriage to Heather?
The book says that no other Immortals happened into Connor's life while
Heather was alive (remember, Jacob Kell was a pre-Immie when he
encountered Connor in Endgame) So, the answer is no.
If so, did other immortals threaten her, attack her or
> use her against Connor? Given what we saw of Heather in HL 1, how do
you think
> she would have responded?
Since no immies happened on Connor's path at that time, the question is
irrelevant.
Evaluate the costs of staying with Connor versus the
> benefits.
Look at Duncan and Tessa for an answer to that one.
Could Heather have had a happier life married to a mortal?
Maybe. Look at Sarah Barrington from The Final Dimension. She was
able to have children and a normal life with a mortal husband. Connor
was happy for her, but I think a part of him would have liked to settle
down with her. But at the same time, look at Tessa's life without
Duncan in "Not To Be". She seems to have it all, but the reality was
that her life was also very empty.
>
> 10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If
Connor did
> fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
>
Yes. Heather probably knew that Connor was going to need someone close
to him at some point, and would understand.
> I have had a very interesting time really looking at Heather as a
character. I
> hope you will too.
>
I enjoyed it, too. Who's the next seminar subject? The Kurgan?
Brenda? Ramirez? Duncan?
> Professor Shomeret
TBird
> We don't know when Connor returned, but
>> it must have been a long enough interval for Heather to be able to
>conceal from
>> Connor that she'd been raped.
>
>It was several hours later when Connor returned from his hunting
>expedition, long enough time for Heather to clean herself up after the
>Kurgan's "invasion" of her, and to put Ramirez back together. She put
>his head back on top of his neck.
This is all novelization?
What moron wrote that?
You don't get raped by someone like the Kurgan and just "clean up".
If you get raped by someone like the Kurgan there are bruises and blood and you
won't let even your husband touch you until you've at least healed physically.
There is NO WAY Connor wouldn't have noticed Heather had been raped if he came
home within hours of the event.
TBird <---- I mean, I'll stretch the belief suspenders some, but this is
ridiculous
TBird
>From this we
>> can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if
>not
>> already married.
>
>I think Connor and Kate were married, but I'm not sure, so don't quote
>me on it.
<snickering>
That's one hell of a divorce system!
Scream that your husband is "IN LEAGUE WITH LUCIFER" and incite the town to
shackle and burn him.......
TBird <------ if only I'd known.....
Shomeret
for it next Saturday. We don't get to Duncan until we cover Endgame.
Professor Shomeret
DMVTREK
>The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
>off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal.
That wasn't Heather that was Kate. He met Heather later. Kate was a real crazy
bitch and tried to have him burned at the stake.
Dana
**************************************************************************
********
"Good must always triumph over evil. Did ya not know that?"-Duncan MacLeod
"I've found that Evil usually triumphs unless Good is very,very
careful."-Dr.McCoy
master...@my-deja.com
sixt4...@aol.comedancing (TBird) wrote:
> In article <8s34lo$cbl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, master...@my-deja.com
writes:
>
> > We don't know when Connor returned, but
> >> it must have been a long enough interval for Heather to be able to
> >conceal from
> >> Connor that she'd been raped.
> >
> >It was several hours later when Connor returned from his hunting
> >expedition, long enough time for Heather to clean herself up after
the
> >Kurgan's "invasion" of her, and to put Ramirez back together. She
put
> >his head back on top of his neck.
Actually, allow me to correct myself, the book said it was on top of
his torso.
>
> This is all novelization?
Yes.
> What moron wrote that?
That "moron" was Garry Kilworth
> You don't get raped by someone like the Kurgan and just "clean up".
> If you get raped by someone like the Kurgan there are bruises and
blood and you
> won't let even your husband touch you until you've at least healed
physically.
> There is NO WAY Connor wouldn't have noticed Heather had been raped
if he came
> home within hours of the event.
According to the book (pages 164 to 166), Heather didn't put up much of
a fight. She just wanted it to be over. It does say that she was in
great pain, "both physical and mental". The Kurgan did rip her dress
to allow access, but she could have always changed.
When Connor returned, he found Heather sitting beside Ramirez's body.
She claimed that she ran into the woods when the Kurgan came, and that
she was unhurt. I seriously doubt they participated in their "marital
duties" for at least a few days after that. Both were probably still
thinking about Ramirez's death.
Either way, according to the book, and the movie, Connor did not know
what the Kurgan had done to his bonnie Heather until 1985, when the
Kurgan said "I took his head and raped his woman before his blood was
cold."
>
> TBird <---- I mean, I'll stretch the belief suspenders some, but this
is
> ridiculous
Quite possibly true.
DMVTREK
(Shomeret) writes:
Don't be so hard on yourself. You were watching this thing at 5 in the morning,
I can barely remember my own name in the morning let alone keep track of a
movie plot! I give you alot of credit for doing all of this I love discussing
and dissecting the characters and episodes.
Do I get extra credit for sucking up to the Proffesor? <very, very big evil
grin!!!!!
Susan Stansfield
At the risk of repeating myself, I also thought it was Heather until a few
weeks ago. If you remember my own answers to your questions, you'll know what
I'm talking about.
Susan
master...@my-deja.com
Final Dimension, I thought the cop trailing Connor was one of the same
guys from the first movie.
master...@my-deja.com
shom...@aol.com (Shomeret) wrote:
> Master Reality asks about the HLCS session-- It will be on The
Kurgan.
This should be good.
Look
> for it next Saturday.
I'll be waiting.
We don't get to Duncan until we cover Endgame.
DRAT!!!
One more question: In the character seminars, will we be covering HL2
characters, or will we skip that chapter?
Shomeret
on myself at all. My failure to see Kate gave me an insight into how I was
interpreting the characters. I was seeing this always and forever monogamous
romance that I probably thought had begun in Connor's childhood like Duncan's
romance with Debra Campbell. Hmm...Maybe that's why I had this misconception.
I was projecting the Duncan/Debra relationship onto Connor/Heather because
HL:TS is the original HL for me. I saw the movies afterward, and I'm just
beginning to discover Connor through the HLCS Seminar. It's a fascinating
process.
Looking at what is actually there-- Connor's first experience of love (if Kate
was his first experience) was betrayal. This brings up a new question about
the Connor/Heather relationship. How did Connor manage to trust Heather when
he finally met her, after having been betrayed by Kate?
Shomeret
3D Master
8s34lo$cbl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <20001008005601...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,
> shom...@aol.com (Shomeret) wrote:
> > There is much about Bonny Heather that remains a mystery. Even her
> clan of
> > origin is unknown to us.
>
> Her maiden name was McDonald.
>
> The first time we see Heather, she is seeing Connor
> > off before the battle in 1536 from which he returned immortal.
>
> That was Kate, not Heather. (No, not the same Kate that became Mrs.
> Duncan MacLeod in Endgame.) He didn't meet Heather until after he was
> driven from Glenfinnan. Kate was the one who said he was in league
> with Lucifer, and wanted him burned at the stake.
>
> From this we
> > can infer that Connor and Heather were at the very least engaged, if
> not
> > already married.
>
> I think Connor and Kate were married, but I'm not sure, so don't quote
> me on it.
Engaged. We see Kate give Connor her crest (handkerchief like thingy). Not
entirely certain, but pretty certain that in those days that meant she
engaged herself to him.
3D Master
Shomeret
movie, there probably wasn't enough characterization in it to be worth
discussion. I also didn't want to review and take notes on this non-existent
film.
Professor Shomeret
Jette Goldie
Shomeret <shom...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001014021335...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
Watched this one last night on BBC. You're right - no real
characterisation.
Micheal Ironside overacting horribly, two very odd looking creatures with
porcupine quills for hair and goggles, who laughed very strangely with their
tongues poked out. Connor looked good, his new girlfriend Louise was
very pretty, Ramirez was a most fetching re-amimated Spaniard but
the story didn't make sense, within the context of the previous movie and
even less within the context of the HL universe as we have come to know
it. Enjoyable in its own way, but turn off your mind and ignore what you
know of HL.
DMVTREK
<jette...@thefreeinternet.co.uk.NOSPAM> writes:
>Watched this one last night on BBC. You're right - no real
>characterisation.
>Micheal Ironside overacting horribly, two very odd looking creatures with
>porcupine quills for hair and goggles, who laughed very strangely with their
>tongues poked out. Connor looked good, his new girlfriend Louise was
>very pretty, Ramirez was a most fetching re-amimated Spaniard but
>the story didn't make sense, within the context of the previous movie and
>even less within the context of the HL universe as we have come to know
>it. Enjoyable in its own way, but turn off your mind and ignore what you
>know of HL.
>
The only reason I watch this film (and yes I do turn off my mind and ignore all
logic when watching this) is the scenes with Ramirez in the theater, in the
tailor shop, and on the airplane.
I would have loved to have Ramirez and Methos in an episode of HLTS. I know
impossible because if Christopher Lambert was too expensive to get Sean Connery
would have been astronomical! But wouldn't it have been great Methos telling
Duncan about Ramirez maybe set in ancient rome with other characters from past
episodes like Rebecca, Ceirdwyn, Marcus Constantine etc. I would want it to be
a comedy like Til Death. Impossible I know but I can dream!j
Susan Stansfield
In article <20001014183258...@nso-bj.aol.com>, dmv...@aol.com
(DMVTREK) wrote:
> I would have loved to have Ramirez and Methos in an episode of HLTS. I
>know
>impossible because if Christopher Lambert was too expensive to get Sean
>Connery
>would have been astronomical! But wouldn't it have been great Methos telling
>Duncan about Ramirez maybe set in ancient rome with other characters from
>past
>episodes like Rebecca, Ceirdwyn, Marcus Constantine etc. I would want it
>to be
>a comedy like Til Death. Impossible I know but I can dream!j
Dana, I love this idea!!
Susan
DMVTREK
(Susan Stansfield) writes:
>Dana, I love this idea!!
>
Thanks! Yeah I'd love to see Methos in a toga !
Susan Stansfield
In article <20001023162206...@nso-fa.aol.com>, dmv...@aol.com
(DMVTREK) wrote:
>In article <20001017102309...@nso-cr.aol.com>, susie...@aol.com
>(Susan Stansfield) writes:
>
>>Dana, I love this idea!!
>>
>
>Thanks! Yeah I'd love to see Methos in a toga !
Here ya go then:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/bizarro7/Toga.jpg
And there are other great cartoons at
http://hometown.aol.com/bizarro7/bizcart.htm
Enjoy!
Susan
hanya...@gmail.com
5)When the Kurgan arrived, someone else might have tried to look for Connor to
warn him, but Heather decided to remain. What was going on in her mind?
7) Why did she never tell Connor that the Kurgan had raped her?
10) Let us assume that Heather's spirit remained with Connor. If Connor did
fall in love again, would she have been happy for him?
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